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	<title>Comments on: In Wake of Economic Crisis, Christian Colleges are Closing</title>
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	<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/11/17/in-wake-of-economic-crisis-christian-colleges-are-closing/</link>
	<description>by Hemant Mehta</description>
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		<title>By: Brett</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/11/17/in-wake-of-economic-crisis-christian-colleges-are-closing/#comment-245938</link>
		<dc:creator>Brett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 16:56:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=5822#comment-245938</guid>
		<description>How do you define palpable harm?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How do you define palpable harm?</p>
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		<title>By: Rev. Bob</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/11/17/in-wake-of-economic-crisis-christian-colleges-are-closing/#comment-245850</link>
		<dc:creator>Rev. Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 07:33:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=5822#comment-245850</guid>
		<description>I was wondering how many of these small colleges refused Federal funding because of Title XI, which as we all know requires same sex toilets and public lesbianism.

Snark aside, unless a college is doing palpable harm, I think it&#039;s a shame to see a college close.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was wondering how many of these small colleges refused Federal funding because of Title XI, which as we all know requires same sex toilets and public lesbianism.</p>
<p>Snark aside, unless a college is doing palpable harm, I think it&#8217;s a shame to see a college close.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris (in Columbus)</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/11/17/in-wake-of-economic-crisis-christian-colleges-are-closing/#comment-245793</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris (in Columbus)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 01:38:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=5822#comment-245793</guid>
		<description>Jen, the dirt I have on Liberty is NOTHING compared to the dirt on Bob Jones! THAT is the scary one. It was only like 20 years ago they removed the ban on interracial dating--not marriage, you couldn&#039;t even DATE someone of another race.

I know that currently they still require all men to wear a tie to class and women to wear skirts. There is NO form of dancing whatsoever allowed on campus. You must get permission to leave campus, too. And, of course, the girls and guys must walk on separate sidewalks.

If anyone is found drinking, having sex or smoking pot (much less any drugs), they are immediately expelled. I&#039;m sure there is some sort of appeal process, but from what I&#039;m told that&#039;s the case. Even just going to a club or bar is enough to possibly have you suspended or even kicked out.

CRAZY. I&#039;m sure Liberty is just as bad, though. Most of the same rules apply--Bob Jones is just far more strict about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jen, the dirt I have on Liberty is NOTHING compared to the dirt on Bob Jones! THAT is the scary one. It was only like 20 years ago they removed the ban on interracial dating&#8211;not marriage, you couldn&#8217;t even DATE someone of another race.</p>
<p>I know that currently they still require all men to wear a tie to class and women to wear skirts. There is NO form of dancing whatsoever allowed on campus. You must get permission to leave campus, too. And, of course, the girls and guys must walk on separate sidewalks.</p>
<p>If anyone is found drinking, having sex or smoking pot (much less any drugs), they are immediately expelled. I&#8217;m sure there is some sort of appeal process, but from what I&#8217;m told that&#8217;s the case. Even just going to a club or bar is enough to possibly have you suspended or even kicked out.</p>
<p>CRAZY. I&#8217;m sure Liberty is just as bad, though. Most of the same rules apply&#8211;Bob Jones is just far more strict about it.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/11/17/in-wake-of-economic-crisis-christian-colleges-are-closing/#comment-245775</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 00:54:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=5822#comment-245775</guid>
		<description>Mike Clawson has a good point for those that share his contrarian personality type (as I do).  After spending time reading comments here at the Friendly Atheist, I find myself more driven to go to church.  And then after attending church, I find myself driven to serf to the Friendly Atheist site :)  A vicious circle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike Clawson has a good point for those that share his contrarian personality type (as I do).  After spending time reading comments here at the Friendly Atheist, I find myself more driven to go to church.  And then after attending church, I find myself driven to serf to the Friendly Atheist site <img src='http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />   A vicious circle.</p>
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		<title>By: Jen</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/11/17/in-wake-of-economic-crisis-christian-colleges-are-closing/#comment-245772</link>
		<dc:creator>Jen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 00:49:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=5822#comment-245772</guid>
		<description>Oooh, Chris, have any good stories about Liberty University?  Sometimes when I am bored, I look at the websites of conservative (and slightly unhinged) Christian colleges, where the rules include demerits for watching R-rated movies or wearing pants and being a lady.  Liberty U first came to my attention (and my web-surfing habit) when I got a postcard in the mail during my college search and there was some sort of &quot;apply to this school and maybe win a truck!&quot; promotion that made me incredibly suspicious that the school was some sort of practical joke.  I am dying for some dirt on them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oooh, Chris, have any good stories about Liberty University?  Sometimes when I am bored, I look at the websites of conservative (and slightly unhinged) Christian colleges, where the rules include demerits for watching R-rated movies or wearing pants and being a lady.  Liberty U first came to my attention (and my web-surfing habit) when I got a postcard in the mail during my college search and there was some sort of &#8220;apply to this school and maybe win a truck!&#8221; promotion that made me incredibly suspicious that the school was some sort of practical joke.  I am dying for some dirt on them.</p>
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		<title>By: Miko</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/11/17/in-wake-of-economic-crisis-christian-colleges-are-closing/#comment-245767</link>
		<dc:creator>Miko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 00:16:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=5822#comment-245767</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;College is the perfect time to expand your mind and challenge your own views. You can’t do that if you’re constantly surrounded by people who agree with you.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

True, but it&#039;s also the time when you&#039;re fully expected to make decisions for yourself, even if that decision is to insulate yourself in a Christian college.  After all, musicians flock to schools like Julliard because they provide something most other schools lack.  If some people think that a Christian college will give them what they&#039;re looking for, they should certainly be free to choose that path.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>College is the perfect time to expand your mind and challenge your own views. You can’t do that if you’re constantly surrounded by people who agree with you.</p></blockquote>
<p>True, but it&#8217;s also the time when you&#8217;re fully expected to make decisions for yourself, even if that decision is to insulate yourself in a Christian college.  After all, musicians flock to schools like Julliard because they provide something most other schools lack.  If some people think that a Christian college will give them what they&#8217;re looking for, they should certainly be free to choose that path.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Clawson</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/11/17/in-wake-of-economic-crisis-christian-colleges-are-closing/#comment-245758</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Clawson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 23:59:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=5822#comment-245758</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;College is the perfect time to expand your mind and challenge your own views. You can’t do that if you’re constantly surrounded by people who agree with you.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I think Laura is right, it all depends on the individual. If you have a reactive, questioning personality like me, then you are bound to react in the opposite direction of whatever the surrounding culture is. I went to a conservative Christian college, and my reaction against that pushed me to become more progressive and open-minded. I honestly believe however that if I had gone to a more liberal state school there is a very good chance I would have reacted against that and become more conservative and dogmatic in my Christian worldview as a result. (I&#039;ve had several friends for whom that is exactly what happened.) For that reason I am very glad that I went to a Christian college.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>College is the perfect time to expand your mind and challenge your own views. You can’t do that if you’re constantly surrounded by people who agree with you.</p></blockquote>
<p>I think Laura is right, it all depends on the individual. If you have a reactive, questioning personality like me, then you are bound to react in the opposite direction of whatever the surrounding culture is. I went to a conservative Christian college, and my reaction against that pushed me to become more progressive and open-minded. I honestly believe however that if I had gone to a more liberal state school there is a very good chance I would have reacted against that and become more conservative and dogmatic in my Christian worldview as a result. (I&#8217;ve had several friends for whom that is exactly what happened.) For that reason I am very glad that I went to a Christian college.</p>
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		<title>By: Larry Huffman</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/11/17/in-wake-of-economic-crisis-christian-colleges-are-closing/#comment-245750</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Huffman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 23:46:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=5822#comment-245750</guid>
		<description>I am not too surprised by this. Yes, some christian colleges are funded by large churches and wealthy congregation members. Colleges like Pepperdine, BYU, Oral Robert and Liberty. However, many of these small christian schools are not so well planned. 

Often they are founded to allow masses of homeschoolers a place to attend (homeschoolers who&#039;s parents taught 4 subjects based on the bible and science class was a study into the Ark). Those kids cannot even attend a junior college thanks to their parents. 

Sometimes they are relatively small congregations or church populations, too small to adequately support a university. They are  founded to keep certain things out, such as science and truth. But the congregations should not have attempted such an endeavor in the first place. 

For a small school to be $4 million in debt...well, I have to guess that the best business decisions were not made along the way to begin with. Maybe when the economy was good there were loans etc to keep them afloat, but now the light is shining on their solvency and it is revealed they are not. They are run by religious people, and in many cases religious people who are quite delusional in their views. It is not surprising that they cannot run such a business properly.

And the coup de gras: religion is loosing young people right and left. Many of these schools may simply be failing because young people do not want to go and spend 4+ years in church. They want to go out and learn about life and the world. Aside from the ones completely isolated and censored from the world, most kids will see right through the blatant attempt to censor them. It is one thing to keep information from small kids, but trying to do so to a 19 year old can backfire, especially in this information age, since kids are better at getting information than most older people. They are adults and will demand that respect...the respect to allow them to chose their own way. These colleges, in many cases, are obviously set up to be a shelter from the world. Kids see that...and more and more will not tolerate that. 

So the bottom line may be that they are not just failing because of the economy. The bad economy is most likely just bringing some facts to light. The product is just not as in demand as before. Because of that the tuition gets higher and higher...and the students and parents alike will then send their kids to someplace less expensive, and ultimately more credible. 

I have a friend who went to a local church college that is one of these small schools. He wanted to transfer to the Cal State system and was told most of his credits didn&#039;t transfer. All of his time, and it meant little to anyone. The degree was a joke. Even the wording on the degree that he had hanging up was a bit whacko and religious. He was faced with heading back tot hat school for a masters, or to start all over. he chose the latter, as his choice of master degree programs was severely limited by his small religious school.

We have to accept the fact that maybe this is more indicitive of the product offered not being as in demand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not too surprised by this. Yes, some christian colleges are funded by large churches and wealthy congregation members. Colleges like Pepperdine, BYU, Oral Robert and Liberty. However, many of these small christian schools are not so well planned. </p>
<p>Often they are founded to allow masses of homeschoolers a place to attend (homeschoolers who&#8217;s parents taught 4 subjects based on the bible and science class was a study into the Ark). Those kids cannot even attend a junior college thanks to their parents. </p>
<p>Sometimes they are relatively small congregations or church populations, too small to adequately support a university. They are  founded to keep certain things out, such as science and truth. But the congregations should not have attempted such an endeavor in the first place. </p>
<p>For a small school to be $4 million in debt&#8230;well, I have to guess that the best business decisions were not made along the way to begin with. Maybe when the economy was good there were loans etc to keep them afloat, but now the light is shining on their solvency and it is revealed they are not. They are run by religious people, and in many cases religious people who are quite delusional in their views. It is not surprising that they cannot run such a business properly.</p>
<p>And the coup de gras: religion is loosing young people right and left. Many of these schools may simply be failing because young people do not want to go and spend 4+ years in church. They want to go out and learn about life and the world. Aside from the ones completely isolated and censored from the world, most kids will see right through the blatant attempt to censor them. It is one thing to keep information from small kids, but trying to do so to a 19 year old can backfire, especially in this information age, since kids are better at getting information than most older people. They are adults and will demand that respect&#8230;the respect to allow them to chose their own way. These colleges, in many cases, are obviously set up to be a shelter from the world. Kids see that&#8230;and more and more will not tolerate that. </p>
<p>So the bottom line may be that they are not just failing because of the economy. The bad economy is most likely just bringing some facts to light. The product is just not as in demand as before. Because of that the tuition gets higher and higher&#8230;and the students and parents alike will then send their kids to someplace less expensive, and ultimately more credible. </p>
<p>I have a friend who went to a local church college that is one of these small schools. He wanted to transfer to the Cal State system and was told most of his credits didn&#8217;t transfer. All of his time, and it meant little to anyone. The degree was a joke. Even the wording on the degree that he had hanging up was a bit whacko and religious. He was faced with heading back tot hat school for a masters, or to start all over. he chose the latter, as his choice of master degree programs was severely limited by his small religious school.</p>
<p>We have to accept the fact that maybe this is more indicitive of the product offered not being as in demand.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Wade's Evil Twin</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/11/17/in-wake-of-economic-crisis-christian-colleges-are-closing/#comment-245748</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Wade's Evil Twin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 23:39:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=5822#comment-245748</guid>
		<description>It will be financially difficult for Christian college students to start attending secular colleges.  They&#039;ll have to buy more than one book.  ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It will be financially difficult for Christian college students to start attending secular colleges.  They&#8217;ll have to buy more than one book.  <img src='http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Laura</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/11/17/in-wake-of-economic-crisis-christian-colleges-are-closing/#comment-245747</link>
		<dc:creator>Laura</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 23:31:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=5822#comment-245747</guid>
		<description>&quot;College is the perfect time to expand your mind and challenge your own views. You can’t do that if you’re constantly surrounded by people who agree with you.&quot;

Actually, small Christian college is what made me start questioning my beliefs. Learning more about them is what made me realize how little sense they made. Most of the Christians I know who went to public universities huddled with the other students at the BSU and tuned everyone else out. You can&#039;t do that if you are at a Christian school and it is other Christians causing you to question. Bart Eherman and [I forgot her name] from Wheaton featured on here not too long ago are 2 more examples of those who questioned their beliefs at conservative schools. 

What turned out to be annoying is that I changed my beliefs while others decided to &quot;have faith.&quot; I left that school with about 2 friends. Now that I am working on another degree at another school, I love the diversity! I made more friends my first semester than I made in 8 there. So I both agree and disagree with that statement. The lack of diversity IS annoying, but you can question your beliefs anywhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;College is the perfect time to expand your mind and challenge your own views. You can’t do that if you’re constantly surrounded by people who agree with you.&#8221;</p>
<p>Actually, small Christian college is what made me start questioning my beliefs. Learning more about them is what made me realize how little sense they made. Most of the Christians I know who went to public universities huddled with the other students at the BSU and tuned everyone else out. You can&#8217;t do that if you are at a Christian school and it is other Christians causing you to question. Bart Eherman and [I forgot her name] from Wheaton featured on here not too long ago are 2 more examples of those who questioned their beliefs at conservative schools. </p>
<p>What turned out to be annoying is that I changed my beliefs while others decided to &#8220;have faith.&#8221; I left that school with about 2 friends. Now that I am working on another degree at another school, I love the diversity! I made more friends my first semester than I made in 8 there. So I both agree and disagree with that statement. The lack of diversity IS annoying, but you can question your beliefs anywhere.</p>
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