Comments on: Atheist Bus Campaign… in Australia? Ad Company Says No

By: Robert Webb

Robert Webb — Thu, 27 Aug 2009 13:39:03 +0000

Hi guys,

A news update: the atheist ads on buses now have the go-ahead for the Australian state of Tasmania. Just got to get the others onboard now.

The slogan will be “Atheism – Celebrate reason!”, and as the guy who actually came up with it, I thought I’d reply to a couple of things.

incredibly influential Christian thinkers like Aquinas, Augustine, through Luther, they gave a very high role to reason

Can you think of anyone post-Darwin? Reason is cumulative. Reason is the the process of implying B from A, but no matter how great your ability to reason, if your initial assumption A is wrong, then you haven’t proven B. There is no built-in truth in our brains, so we can only apply our reason to what has already been discovered. Others will interpret my slogan differently, but my intention was not to say that a religious person can’t make use of reason, it was to say that reason is the process by which we reach the conclusion that there is no god. It is a triumph of human reasoning, and builds upon accumulated knowledge from many fields, all supporting the same conclusion. Evolution is certainly a big part of that.

As an aside, it is funny though when even prominant atheists say that it would have been difficult not to believe in god before Darwin. Funny because the truth of the matter hasn’t changed, just our uncovering of it. Reminds me of Dawkins’ quip where someone says that people used to believe that the Sun went around the Earth because it looked like it did, to which someone replies “And what would it have looked like if it didn’t?”. Same thing here. To say that it would be hard not to believe in god before Darwin is to say that we have to believe some answer rather than just admitting that we don’t know, which does seem to be a strong human instinct. Any answer, true or not, seems better than not knowing.

Christianity: Celebrate Reason

No one arrives at Christianity via reason, or they are not well-informed if they do. As with many religions, Christianity promotes belief without question, faith in the divine word, where doubt is seen as a weakness. The above suggestion is just a knee-jerk reaction to the original slogan, but the link between Christianity and reason just isn’t there. But I’d be happy for someone to explain the link if I’m missing it.

I do consider the proposed Australian sign somewhat insulting, whereas I have no problem with the American and English versions. I expect that’s why they’re avoiding it.

Avoiding it? Who’s avoiding it? The Americans and English came up with their own slogan. Indeed the Brits were first so my slogan wasn’t even around to consider.

As far as being insulting, it wasn’t really intended to be. Most of the slogans I’d seen suggested were explicitly negative about religion, or just too dry, or too wordy. I wanted to come up with one that was more positive and joyous, without being completely flippant. I don’t think we should try to offend, but we also shouldn’t go out of our way to avoid offense, since one goal is to bring religion down from it’s untouchable pedestal. Say anything bad about it and you’ve committed the worst possible sin. I guess my slogan does imply that atheists are more interested in reason and logic than Christians, but isn’t that a fair call? If they’re a little offended, that’s probably not such a bad thing.

Rob.

By: Jay

Jay — Thu, 12 Feb 2009 06:07:59 +0000

So basically in order to stop xtians imposing their belifs on non-xtians, athiests are going to post their beleifs on buses, so that, what? when a xtian sees them their going stop trying to ‘impose’ their beleifs on the world and let athiests do it instead?

By: seniorskeptic

seniorskeptic — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 22:02:31 +0000

Lara,
What most atheists dislike about christianity and some xians is that they want their superstitions imposed on non xians, such as, prayer in school, prayer in city council meetings, prayer at sporting events,prayer in swearing in ceremonies, oaths of office, and on and on and on and on. Get the picture? Keep your religious beliefs to yourself and we’ll all be happier.

By: simon

simon — Thu, 29 Jan 2009 09:35:04 +0000

No Lara, that’s a typical ignorant response. People shouldn’t have faith in something that does not exist. Such behaviour is acceptable in children (Santa Claus, Easter bunny, monsters under the bed etc) but in adults it’s called mental illness. Atheists don’t hate god, how can they hate something that does not exist? What we hate is the effect such superstitions have, not only on our individual civil rights but also on the damage done on human society by these primitive and outmoded superstitions.

To answer your question, yes, I’d like to see faith in ‘god’ completely destroyed, and replaced with the compassion and understanding that can only come from the knowledge that each person is responsible for their own lives, no excuses, and since we only get one shot at life make it a good one.

By: Jay

Jay — Thu, 29 Jan 2009 07:00:46 +0000

Christianity and Christians are only one part of a much larger group of religions and spiritual belivers, however it seems that because the Christians were able to put one religious slogan on a bus in Adelaide, which apperently was ‘offensive to athiests’, athiests should be able to do the exact same thing in return. what exactly is the gain of all this and is it worth it?

By: lara

lara — Mon, 26 Jan 2009 11:38:20 +0000

So in theory you would prefer to see Peoples faith completely destroyed and proving what, you hate a God you do not believe in??

Hmm interesting

By: simon

simon — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 10:42:43 +0000

Is there anything we can do to help? I’m not in a position to offer any money, unfortunately, much like many in today’s economic climate, but is there a petition to sign or event to show up at, or even a letter to our local politician to complain about religious discrimination we could write? Surely there’s some law in Australia that prevents religious discrimination? APN Outdoor must be held accountable for their bias.

By: paola

paola — Fri, 28 Nov 2008 10:14:31 +0000

I wish I could see an atheist bus in Rome!!

By: Matt Stone

Matt Stone — Thu, 27 Nov 2008 13:08:44 +0000

“Greg Clarke: Well again, you know, I’d like to plug in there, ‘Christianity: Celebrate Reason’. I just think this claim that religion is anti-reason doesn’t hold up. I mean the incredibly influential Christian thinkers like Aquinas, Augustine, through Luther, they gave a very high role to reason. There are people who practice religion in a very irrational way, but the basis of religion can be approached with your mind and does make sense.” That would be my take on it too. I do consider the proposed Australian sign somewhat insulting, whereas I have no problem with the American and English versions. I expect that’s why they’re avoiding it.

Also, Jason said, “.. And Australia is a secular society? I thought they have almost as many problems with fundies as we do in the US.” Not by a long shot mate. Consider immigration.

By: DSimon

DSimon — Thu, 27 Nov 2008 07:43:32 +0000

The Atheist Foundation is not a religion, we are not criticising religion, we are saying celebrate reason.

It’s a little dishonest for him to say this; it seems pretty clear to me that they ARE criticizing religion. It’s just that it’s civil criticism, which ought to be fine.