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	<title>Comments on: Words I Cannot Say Properly</title>
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	<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/11/29/words-i-cannot-say-properly/</link>
	<description>by Hemant Mehta</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2012 11:04:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/11/29/words-i-cannot-say-properly/#comment-320067</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 18:29:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=6020#comment-320067</guid>
		<description>Mehta, you&#039;re an Englishman taken from his homeland at birth.

If you come and stay with us we will offer as much tea as you like.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mehta, you&#8217;re an Englishman taken from his homeland at birth.</p>
<p>If you come and stay with us we will offer as much tea as you like.</p>
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		<title>By: Garic</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/11/29/words-i-cannot-say-properly/#comment-319615</link>
		<dc:creator>Garic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 10:52:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=6020#comment-319615</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s something to be said for Richard Wade&#039;s comment.  I said:
&lt;blockquote&gt;But that’s all there is: variation and other people who you can speak more or less like&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Actually there is something else: there are the assumptions people make about you based on how you speak. The reason I didn&#039;t mention this is that it&#039;s implied by the &quot;people who you can speak more or less like&quot;. If you talk like someone from Boston, people will assume you&#039;re from Boston. And it is true that people associate certain pronunciations (sometimes rightly, sometimes wrongly) with individuals who have less education. The reason is that educational establishments promote certain pronunciation variants over others, so people who don&#039;t use these variants are assumed to be less educated.

So when you pays your money, you makes a choice with consequences about what people associate you with. But that&#039;s not the same as &lt;em&gt;mis&lt;/em&gt;pronunciations. There&#039;s the rub. 

Mumbling and diction are rather different matters, however, and really fall into a quite different category. 

Richard Wade is right that the way we use words influences what they achieve, but this is not a matter of there being a right and a wrong prounciation. It&#039;s a matter of pronouncing things in the most effective way for the context, and the social forces influencing this are subtle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s something to be said for Richard Wade&#8217;s comment.  I said:</p>
<blockquote><p>But that’s all there is: variation and other people who you can speak more or less like</p></blockquote>
<p>Actually there is something else: there are the assumptions people make about you based on how you speak. The reason I didn&#8217;t mention this is that it&#8217;s implied by the &#8220;people who you can speak more or less like&#8221;. If you talk like someone from Boston, people will assume you&#8217;re from Boston. And it is true that people associate certain pronunciations (sometimes rightly, sometimes wrongly) with individuals who have less education. The reason is that educational establishments promote certain pronunciation variants over others, so people who don&#8217;t use these variants are assumed to be less educated.</p>
<p>So when you pays your money, you makes a choice with consequences about what people associate you with. But that&#8217;s not the same as <em>mis</em>pronunciations. There&#8217;s the rub. </p>
<p>Mumbling and diction are rather different matters, however, and really fall into a quite different category. </p>
<p>Richard Wade is right that the way we use words influences what they achieve, but this is not a matter of there being a right and a wrong prounciation. It&#8217;s a matter of pronouncing things in the most effective way for the context, and the social forces influencing this are subtle.</p>
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		<title>By: H</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/11/29/words-i-cannot-say-properly/#comment-319428</link>
		<dc:creator>H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 16:20:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=6020#comment-319428</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Mayonnaise = MAY-nays instead of MAY-o-nays&lt;/blockquote&gt;

My grandmother says MAY-nays and my grandfather says MAN-nays. They argue about it sometimes, but they don&#039;t get mad. More of a friendly thing.

I say it normally as do my parents. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Mayonnaise = MAY-nays instead of MAY-o-nays</p></blockquote>
<p>My grandmother says MAY-nays and my grandfather says MAN-nays. They argue about it sometimes, but they don&#8217;t get mad. More of a friendly thing.</p>
<p>I say it normally as do my parents. <img src='http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Diagoras</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/11/29/words-i-cannot-say-properly/#comment-319292</link>
		<dc:creator>Diagoras</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 02:13:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=6020#comment-319292</guid>
		<description>Just go to http://www.answers.com/  They give you the option of hearing the word pronounced.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just go to <a href="http://www.answers.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.answers.com/</a>  They give you the option of hearing the word pronounced.</p>
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		<title>By: Efogoto</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/11/29/words-i-cannot-say-properly/#comment-319254</link>
		<dc:creator>Efogoto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Jun 2009 23:36:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=6020#comment-319254</guid>
		<description>Recently, in my forties, I was caught out when reading aloud. The word I read as &quot;uh-SIR-ten&quot; turns out to be that &quot;other&quot; word I heard as &quot;ass-er-TANE&quot; -- ascertain.

Still correcting myself as I read it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Recently, in my forties, I was caught out when reading aloud. The word I read as &#8220;uh-SIR-ten&#8221; turns out to be that &#8220;other&#8221; word I heard as &#8220;ass-er-TANE&#8221; &#8212; ascertain.</p>
<p>Still correcting myself as I read it.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Wade</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/11/29/words-i-cannot-say-properly/#comment-319181</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Wade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Jun 2009 16:58:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=6020#comment-319181</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;There seems to be this idea that somewhere there’s a big stone tablet with a list of how to pronounce words in English; deviating from the pronunciations on this tablet is wrong.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Actually, it&#039;s not a stone tablet, it&#039;s a dictionary.

There is a difference between regional accents and poor diction.  It is not fair, but you are judged much more quickly by how you speak than by what you say.  It takes at least a brief conversation to leave the impression that you are intelligent and sophisticated.  It takes only one sentence to give the impression that you are a hick. Poor enunciation or mispronunciations that are associated with ignorant, backward stereotypes can seriously harm your credibility, and you have to work harder to compensate for that.  It is like a handicap.  George Bernard Shaw&#039;s Professor Henry Higgens had a point: &quot;It&#039;s &#039;aoww&#039; and &#039;gaww&#039; that keep her in her place, not her wretched clothes and dirty face.&quot;  

I had a colleague who was a bright and knowledgeable man with a PhD in Psychology.  He pronounced his words in the manner of the inner city ghettos, from which he had heroically emancipated himself. He said things like &quot;ax&quot; for &quot;ask,&quot; and &quot;def&quot; for &quot;death,&quot; and in general he mumbled. It was an impediment, a constant distraction that immediately produced a subtle negative reaction in people whom he was just meeting. He then had to get past that setback that he otherwise would not have faced. 

It should not be enough to just be understood. Your speech has potential power.  More than just apes grunting at each other to get a point across, speech, conversation and communication is an art. In any art there is an aspect called craftsmanship. Poor craftsmanship can cancel out the beauty and impact that the art could otherwise have. You don&#039;t have to put on airs and have contrived speech affectations as if you&#039;re an Oxford upper cruster. Just a little practice can remove a handicap to the power of your speech.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>There seems to be this idea that somewhere there’s a big stone tablet with a list of how to pronounce words in English; deviating from the pronunciations on this tablet is wrong.</p></blockquote>
<p>Actually, it&#8217;s not a stone tablet, it&#8217;s a dictionary.</p>
<p>There is a difference between regional accents and poor diction.  It is not fair, but you are judged much more quickly by how you speak than by what you say.  It takes at least a brief conversation to leave the impression that you are intelligent and sophisticated.  It takes only one sentence to give the impression that you are a hick. Poor enunciation or mispronunciations that are associated with ignorant, backward stereotypes can seriously harm your credibility, and you have to work harder to compensate for that.  It is like a handicap.  George Bernard Shaw&#8217;s Professor Henry Higgens had a point: &#8220;It&#8217;s &#8216;aoww&#8217; and &#8216;gaww&#8217; that keep her in her place, not her wretched clothes and dirty face.&#8221;  </p>
<p>I had a colleague who was a bright and knowledgeable man with a PhD in Psychology.  He pronounced his words in the manner of the inner city ghettos, from which he had heroically emancipated himself. He said things like &#8220;ax&#8221; for &#8220;ask,&#8221; and &#8220;def&#8221; for &#8220;death,&#8221; and in general he mumbled. It was an impediment, a constant distraction that immediately produced a subtle negative reaction in people whom he was just meeting. He then had to get past that setback that he otherwise would not have faced. </p>
<p>It should not be enough to just be understood. Your speech has potential power.  More than just apes grunting at each other to get a point across, speech, conversation and communication is an art. In any art there is an aspect called craftsmanship. Poor craftsmanship can cancel out the beauty and impact that the art could otherwise have. You don&#8217;t have to put on airs and have contrived speech affectations as if you&#8217;re an Oxford upper cruster. Just a little practice can remove a handicap to the power of your speech.</p>
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		<title>By: Garic</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/11/29/words-i-cannot-say-properly/#comment-319137</link>
		<dc:creator>Garic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Jun 2009 13:18:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=6020#comment-319137</guid>
		<description>My pet peeve is people talking about &quot;mispronunciations&quot; in contexts like this! There seems to be this idea that somewhere there&#039;s a big stone tablet with a list of how to pronounce words in English; deviating from the pronunciations on this tablet is wrong.

That, of course, is nonsense. Pronunciations vary; you may speak more or less like the majority of English speakers, or more or less like the majority of American/US/Iowan etc. speakers, or more or less like the richest people you know, or the celebrities you admire the most, or your teachers, or your students, or your fellow students, and so on. 

But &lt;strong&gt;that&#039;s all there is&lt;/strong&gt;: variation and other people who you can speak more or less like.  You pays your money and you makes your choice!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My pet peeve is people talking about &#8220;mispronunciations&#8221; in contexts like this! There seems to be this idea that somewhere there&#8217;s a big stone tablet with a list of how to pronounce words in English; deviating from the pronunciations on this tablet is wrong.</p>
<p>That, of course, is nonsense. Pronunciations vary; you may speak more or less like the majority of English speakers, or more or less like the majority of American/US/Iowan etc. speakers, or more or less like the richest people you know, or the celebrities you admire the most, or your teachers, or your students, or your fellow students, and so on. </p>
<p>But <strong>that&#8217;s all there is</strong>: variation and other people who you can speak more or less like.  You pays your money and you makes your choice!</p>
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		<title>By: AnonyMouse</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/11/29/words-i-cannot-say-properly/#comment-302645</link>
		<dc:creator>AnonyMouse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Apr 2009 23:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=6020#comment-302645</guid>
		<description>It &lt;em&gt;is&lt;/em&gt; Q-pon. :P  And length is leng-th (but one syllable).

Over here in the western US, we have a lot of pronunciations that migrated in from the south.  Really aggravating ones:

Treasure becomes TRAY-zhur and pleasure becomes PLAY-zhur.  Since these words appear a lot in the Bible, I hear them pronounced that way a *lot*.

&quot;This year&quot; gets blurred into &quot;thishyeer&quot;.

Across becomes acrossed (pronounced uh-KROST).

My dad doesn&#039;t pronounce &quot;wash&quot; as &quot;warsh&quot; - he just says &quot;wush&quot;, rhyming with &quot;whoosh&quot;.

They also do SUN-dee, MUN-dee, etc.  Drives me bonkers.

And some non-regional ones:

Question = KWESH-chun instead of KWES-chun

Mayonnaise = MAY-nays instead of MAY-o-nays

Exactly = Exackly

And anyone who cannot pronounce a T as a T drives me up the wall.  It&#039;s &quot;tree&quot;, not &quot;chree&quot;.  It&#039;s &quot;try&quot;, not &quot;chry&quot;.  Etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It <em>is</em> Q-pon. <img src='http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' />   And length is leng-th (but one syllable).</p>
<p>Over here in the western US, we have a lot of pronunciations that migrated in from the south.  Really aggravating ones:</p>
<p>Treasure becomes TRAY-zhur and pleasure becomes PLAY-zhur.  Since these words appear a lot in the Bible, I hear them pronounced that way a *lot*.</p>
<p>&#8220;This year&#8221; gets blurred into &#8220;thishyeer&#8221;.</p>
<p>Across becomes acrossed (pronounced uh-KROST).</p>
<p>My dad doesn&#8217;t pronounce &#8220;wash&#8221; as &#8220;warsh&#8221; &#8211; he just says &#8220;wush&#8221;, rhyming with &#8220;whoosh&#8221;.</p>
<p>They also do SUN-dee, MUN-dee, etc.  Drives me bonkers.</p>
<p>And some non-regional ones:</p>
<p>Question = KWESH-chun instead of KWES-chun</p>
<p>Mayonnaise = MAY-nays instead of MAY-o-nays</p>
<p>Exactly = Exackly</p>
<p>And anyone who cannot pronounce a T as a T drives me up the wall.  It&#8217;s &#8220;tree&#8221;, not &#8220;chree&#8221;.  It&#8217;s &#8220;try&#8221;, not &#8220;chry&#8221;.  Etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Clare</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/11/29/words-i-cannot-say-properly/#comment-249288</link>
		<dc:creator>Clare</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 00:36:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=6020#comment-249288</guid>
		<description>Hmm, several of those are only incorrect if you&#039;re assuming American English as your standard, and I suspect in one case it&#039;s also a particular variant of American English. As a British English speaker, I can see your students following me around too in that case...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm, several of those are only incorrect if you&#8217;re assuming American English as your standard, and I suspect in one case it&#8217;s also a particular variant of American English. As a British English speaker, I can see your students following me around too in that case&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: GDad</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/11/29/words-i-cannot-say-properly/#comment-249050</link>
		<dc:creator>GDad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 00:53:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=6020#comment-249050</guid>
		<description>My dad can&#039;t say &quot;wrench.&quot;  He says &quot;ranch&quot;, except for that time we all tried to get him to say it correctly, so he started saying &quot;runch.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My dad can&#8217;t say &#8220;wrench.&#8221;  He says &#8220;ranch&#8221;, except for that time we all tried to get him to say it correctly, so he started saying &#8220;runch.&#8221;</p>
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