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	<title>Comments on: American Atheists Sues the State of Kentucky</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/12/01/american-atheists-sues-the-state-of-kentucky/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/12/01/american-atheists-sues-the-state-of-kentucky/</link>
	<description>by Hemant Mehta</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 28 May 2012 02:34:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: john w</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/12/01/american-atheists-sues-the-state-of-kentucky/#comment-250043</link>
		<dc:creator>john w</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Dec 2008 02:55:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=6443#comment-250043</guid>
		<description>According to the interview with Dave Silverman on MSNBC, federal law states that you cannot sue in federal court unless you ask for punitive damages.  The purpose of the suit is to change this ridiculous language in the KY law, not make money.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.vimeo.com/2432831&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>According to the interview with Dave Silverman on MSNBC, federal law states that you cannot sue in federal court unless you ask for punitive damages.  The purpose of the suit is to change this ridiculous language in the KY law, not make money.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.vimeo.com/2432831" rel="nofollow"></a></p>
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		<title>By: johntfrazer</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/12/01/american-atheists-sues-the-state-of-kentucky/#comment-249872</link>
		<dc:creator>johntfrazer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 13:34:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=6443#comment-249872</guid>
		<description>Thank you Ginny, you&#039;ve summed up perfectly . . .

. . . Why laws like this are considered a problem.

It&#039;s not YOUR country. It&#039;s OUR country (as in yours and mine). You say &quot;GET OUT,&quot; but where would we go, and why should we be the ones to leave?

Laws like this, and responses like yours, feed the gnawing suspicion that some atheists (and members of other minorities) have, that we&#039;re only barely tolerated, that we&#039;re not welcome in the only home we&#039;ve ever known, that the majority secretly despises us and wishes to use our civic institutions to do us harm.

Paranoid? Most of the time I think so, but there are times, when the laws are nakedly discriminatory, and when the majority seems so reluctant to stick up for the minority, and when the majority&#039;s fringes use the minority&#039;s discomfort to vent its vitriol, that I think maybe it&#039;s not so paranoid after all.

What&#039;s especially frustrating about this case is that so many Christians automatically line up against atheists, regardless of the merits of the case. This law is a flagrant violation of the first ammendment, and not in an &quot;atheists get weird at any mention of God&quot; kind of way.

Even if you think the founders were fundamentalist Christians, it is undeniable that, at the very least, the establisment clause was meant to protect individual Christian theologies and denominations from each other. This law is not simply a variation of &quot;in god we trust,&quot; but a government sponsoring of a specific, strong, controversial theological interpretation - that God actively intervenes in human affairs, takes an interest in specific political conflicts, and makes concrete material promises to people who believe in him.

This is not only not vanilla theism. It&#039;s not vanilla Christianity. This is a specific doctrine that is being espoused. Even if you believe that atheists have not standing in the public sphere, this is a constitutional violation.

(I write more about this on my blog).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you Ginny, you&#8217;ve summed up perfectly . . .</p>
<p>. . . Why laws like this are considered a problem.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not YOUR country. It&#8217;s OUR country (as in yours and mine). You say &#8220;GET OUT,&#8221; but where would we go, and why should we be the ones to leave?</p>
<p>Laws like this, and responses like yours, feed the gnawing suspicion that some atheists (and members of other minorities) have, that we&#8217;re only barely tolerated, that we&#8217;re not welcome in the only home we&#8217;ve ever known, that the majority secretly despises us and wishes to use our civic institutions to do us harm.</p>
<p>Paranoid? Most of the time I think so, but there are times, when the laws are nakedly discriminatory, and when the majority seems so reluctant to stick up for the minority, and when the majority&#8217;s fringes use the minority&#8217;s discomfort to vent its vitriol, that I think maybe it&#8217;s not so paranoid after all.</p>
<p>What&#8217;s especially frustrating about this case is that so many Christians automatically line up against atheists, regardless of the merits of the case. This law is a flagrant violation of the first ammendment, and not in an &#8220;atheists get weird at any mention of God&#8221; kind of way.</p>
<p>Even if you think the founders were fundamentalist Christians, it is undeniable that, at the very least, the establisment clause was meant to protect individual Christian theologies and denominations from each other. This law is not simply a variation of &#8220;in god we trust,&#8221; but a government sponsoring of a specific, strong, controversial theological interpretation &#8211; that God actively intervenes in human affairs, takes an interest in specific political conflicts, and makes concrete material promises to people who believe in him.</p>
<p>This is not only not vanilla theism. It&#8217;s not vanilla Christianity. This is a specific doctrine that is being espoused. Even if you believe that atheists have not standing in the public sphere, this is a constitutional violation.</p>
<p>(I write more about this on my blog).</p>
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		<title>By: Ginny</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/12/01/american-atheists-sues-the-state-of-kentucky/#comment-249741</link>
		<dc:creator>Ginny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 22:09:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=6443#comment-249741</guid>
		<description>I think I&#039;m going to file a lawsuit about these people making me literally sick!  If you do not believe in God... that&#039;s your choice.  However, how can these people live in a country that was founded and built on religion and moral convictions.  How can you work and accept money that has IN GOD WE TRUST printed on it for your personal gain?  I have had enough... I am a Christian and I am tired of it.  This country has opened it arms to you, but don&#039;t try to change what beliefs our country is built on.  If you don&#039;t like it here... GET OUT!  That simple.  It is time that the Christians out there get off of there behinds and make some noise.  We are not going to stand for this anymore.  Practice your religion freely... we allow that, but don&#039;t try to change our Christian nation... IN GOD WE TRUST!  We have heard enough... Shut up and/or get out!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think I&#8217;m going to file a lawsuit about these people making me literally sick!  If you do not believe in God&#8230; that&#8217;s your choice.  However, how can these people live in a country that was founded and built on religion and moral convictions.  How can you work and accept money that has IN GOD WE TRUST printed on it for your personal gain?  I have had enough&#8230; I am a Christian and I am tired of it.  This country has opened it arms to you, but don&#8217;t try to change what beliefs our country is built on.  If you don&#8217;t like it here&#8230; GET OUT!  That simple.  It is time that the Christians out there get off of there behinds and make some noise.  We are not going to stand for this anymore.  Practice your religion freely&#8230; we allow that, but don&#8217;t try to change our Christian nation&#8230; IN GOD WE TRUST!  We have heard enough&#8230; Shut up and/or get out!</p>
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		<title>By: Mikayla</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/12/01/american-atheists-sues-the-state-of-kentucky/#comment-249711</link>
		<dc:creator>Mikayla</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 18:45:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=6443#comment-249711</guid>
		<description>I know more than one of the plaintiffs personally, and was offered to be one myself. (I turned it down for personal reasons.) But I support the case wholeheartedly. I&#039;m not sure what the deal is with the &#039;financial damages&#039; but from previous legal experience I suspect that is probably just the way the cases are written and that it will be hashed out in court. The people I know as plaintiffs don&#039;t care or intend to get any money whatsoever from this, though I can&#039;t speak for American Atheists. 

I think the citizens have, or at least should have, good standing in this case. If the citizens themselves can&#039;t challenge idiocy like this in our state and national governments, who can? At best it is taxpayer dollars going to pay the salaries of those who are wasting their time on this nonsense, and at worst is discriminatory against any atheists that may now or in the future work in the Ky State government. Forced to acknowledge &#039;almighty God&#039; my foot!

Besides that, if this went unchallenged, you just know the religious right would have a field day in using this law to &#039;prove&#039; that this is a &#039;Christian Nation&#039;, just as they now use the phrase &#039;under God&#039; in the pledge. We can&#039;t just let it go unchallenged.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know more than one of the plaintiffs personally, and was offered to be one myself. (I turned it down for personal reasons.) But I support the case wholeheartedly. I&#8217;m not sure what the deal is with the &#8216;financial damages&#8217; but from previous legal experience I suspect that is probably just the way the cases are written and that it will be hashed out in court. The people I know as plaintiffs don&#8217;t care or intend to get any money whatsoever from this, though I can&#8217;t speak for American Atheists. </p>
<p>I think the citizens have, or at least should have, good standing in this case. If the citizens themselves can&#8217;t challenge idiocy like this in our state and national governments, who can? At best it is taxpayer dollars going to pay the salaries of those who are wasting their time on this nonsense, and at worst is discriminatory against any atheists that may now or in the future work in the Ky State government. Forced to acknowledge &#8216;almighty God&#8217; my foot!</p>
<p>Besides that, if this went unchallenged, you just know the religious right would have a field day in using this law to &#8216;prove&#8217; that this is a &#8216;Christian Nation&#8217;, just as they now use the phrase &#8216;under God&#8217; in the pledge. We can&#8217;t just let it go unchallenged.</p>
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		<title>By: God is for Suckers! &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Kentucky’s first line of defense against terrorism is their imagianry friend</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/12/01/american-atheists-sues-the-state-of-kentucky/#comment-249464</link>
		<dc:creator>God is for Suckers! &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Kentucky’s first line of defense against terrorism is their imagianry friend</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 18:28:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=6443#comment-249464</guid>
		<description>[...] I read about this in Yahoo news this morning, then found links to the story being reported and commented on at other sites, including American&#8217;s United and Friendly Atheist. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I read about this in Yahoo news this morning, then found links to the story being reported and commented on at other sites, including American&#8217;s United and Friendly Atheist. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The Daily Profaner &#187; Blog Archive &#187; American Atheists Sue Kentucky to Make Kentucky Do More Than Pray for Safety</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/12/01/american-atheists-sues-the-state-of-kentucky/#comment-249421</link>
		<dc:creator>The Daily Profaner &#187; Blog Archive &#187; American Atheists Sue Kentucky to Make Kentucky Do More Than Pray for Safety</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 14:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=6443#comment-249421</guid>
		<description>[...] [Bluegrass Politics via Friendly Atheist] [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] [Bluegrass Politics via Friendly Atheist] [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Wade</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/12/01/american-atheists-sues-the-state-of-kentucky/#comment-249345</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Wade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 04:58:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=6443#comment-249345</guid>
		<description>Does anybody else think that proclaiming that (the Christian) God is the first line of defense in Kentucky would make Kentucky a tempting target for Muslim crazies wanting to demoralize and humiliate Americans?  Or am I just unique in the evil way I think?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does anybody else think that proclaiming that (the Christian) God is the first line of defense in Kentucky would make Kentucky a tempting target for Muslim crazies wanting to demoralize and humiliate Americans?  Or am I just unique in the evil way I think?</p>
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		<title>By: JBM</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/12/01/american-atheists-sues-the-state-of-kentucky/#comment-249332</link>
		<dc:creator>JBM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 03:30:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=6443#comment-249332</guid>
		<description>writerdd,

You are correct: there is no war on Christmas. T&#039;was sarcasm on my part. 

Merry Christmas, mate. ;)

-JBM</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>writerdd,</p>
<p>You are correct: there is no war on Christmas. T&#8217;was sarcasm on my part. </p>
<p>Merry Christmas, mate. <img src='http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>-JBM</p>
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		<title>By: writerdd</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/12/01/american-atheists-sues-the-state-of-kentucky/#comment-249202</link>
		<dc:creator>writerdd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 17:10:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=6443#comment-249202</guid>
		<description>JBM, there is no war on Christmas. So I guess that cancels out the only secularist threat. The war on Christmas is imaginary, just like the best friend of the people who believe there is a war on Christmas.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JBM, there is no war on Christmas. So I guess that cancels out the only secularist threat. The war on Christmas is imaginary, just like the best friend of the people who believe there is a war on Christmas.</p>
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		<title>By: JBM</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/12/01/american-atheists-sues-the-state-of-kentucky/#comment-249179</link>
		<dc:creator>JBM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 14:17:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=6443#comment-249179</guid>
		<description>The case sounds like a classic trial lawyer set-up: claim &quot;pain and suffering&quot; by the client in order to justify the case and the damages.  Still, as other posters have already mentioned, the claim and the pursuit of damages (probably to pay the attorneys) really tarnishes their objective.  This would be a better case for FFRA or ACLU.

On another note, I can&#039;t help from thinking how others&#039; fervent beliefs in their god got us into this need for homeland security thing in the first place.  I don&#039;t recall any secularist attackers or other threats (beyond our perennial &quot;War on Christmas&quot;) that justified such measures in this county.

-jbm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The case sounds like a classic trial lawyer set-up: claim &#8220;pain and suffering&#8221; by the client in order to justify the case and the damages.  Still, as other posters have already mentioned, the claim and the pursuit of damages (probably to pay the attorneys) really tarnishes their objective.  This would be a better case for FFRA or ACLU.</p>
<p>On another note, I can&#8217;t help from thinking how others&#8217; fervent beliefs in their god got us into this need for homeland security thing in the first place.  I don&#8217;t recall any secularist attackers or other threats (beyond our perennial &#8220;War on Christmas&#8221;) that justified such measures in this county.</p>
<p>-jbm</p>
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