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	<title>Comments on: Since When Are Song Lyrics About Jesus Considered Religiously &#8220;Neutral&#8221;?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/01/04/since-when-are-song-lyrics-about-jesus-considered-religiously-neutral/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/01/04/since-when-are-song-lyrics-about-jesus-considered-religiously-neutral/</link>
	<description>by Hemant Mehta</description>
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		<title>By: logicalath</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/01/04/since-when-are-song-lyrics-about-jesus-considered-religiously-neutral/#comment-259767</link>
		<dc:creator>logicalath</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 14:15:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=7421#comment-259767</guid>
		<description>It just won&#039;t stop.  Religious people, particularly christians in the USA, (and others such as muslims, etc. in the Middle East) all know that what they preach/sell is pure BS.  So when you are trying to sell something that is pure BS you have to push, push, push, push, push.

You see it particularly in schools where the majority of teachers are of course christians.  They cannot leave well enough alone and let people choose to go to their religious ceremonies wherever they are presented.  They know that &quot;their&quot; particular religion cannot sell itself because it is simply a fabrication.  So, like any product that is pure BS, they have to sell, sell, sell, etc.  They can&#039;t have &quot;prayer&quot; in class so they have &quot;moment of silence&quot; (same thing).  They can&#039;t use jesus in a song, so they slip in some other term or phrase that everyone knows means the same thing.  ANYTHING they can come up with that is of THEIR desire to force their religion down other peoples&#039; throats.  With these people it is like some kind of mental illness.  They simply cannot stop trying to sell their BS to others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It just won&#8217;t stop.  Religious people, particularly christians in the USA, (and others such as muslims, etc. in the Middle East) all know that what they preach/sell is pure BS.  So when you are trying to sell something that is pure BS you have to push, push, push, push, push.</p>
<p>You see it particularly in schools where the majority of teachers are of course christians.  They cannot leave well enough alone and let people choose to go to their religious ceremonies wherever they are presented.  They know that &#8220;their&#8221; particular religion cannot sell itself because it is simply a fabrication.  So, like any product that is pure BS, they have to sell, sell, sell, etc.  They can&#8217;t have &#8220;prayer&#8221; in class so they have &#8220;moment of silence&#8221; (same thing).  They can&#8217;t use jesus in a song, so they slip in some other term or phrase that everyone knows means the same thing.  ANYTHING they can come up with that is of THEIR desire to force their religion down other peoples&#8217; throats.  With these people it is like some kind of mental illness.  They simply cannot stop trying to sell their BS to others.</p>
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		<title>By: JSug</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/01/04/since-when-are-song-lyrics-about-jesus-considered-religiously-neutral/#comment-258114</link>
		<dc:creator>JSug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 00:24:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=7421#comment-258114</guid>
		<description>Well, we sang a great mix of songs when I was in HS choir.  Christian, non-Christian religious, and completely non-religious.  Some of my favorites were blatantly Christian in nature, but they were also musically interesting and important works.  Like Beethoven&#039;s Halleluah from Mount of Olives.  That one still gives me a great feeling when performed well with full orchestral accompaniment (what the heck, here&#039;s a &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZFrYHxbDYM&amp;feature=related&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;link&lt;/a&gt;).  But then, we had a choir director with really good taste.  He would never have thrown anything in simply because it was promoting Christianity.  And he usually let us have some say in what we were singing, giving us several options to choose from as a group when preparing for a concert or contest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, we sang a great mix of songs when I was in HS choir.  Christian, non-Christian religious, and completely non-religious.  Some of my favorites were blatantly Christian in nature, but they were also musically interesting and important works.  Like Beethoven&#8217;s Halleluah from Mount of Olives.  That one still gives me a great feeling when performed well with full orchestral accompaniment (what the heck, here&#8217;s a <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZFrYHxbDYM&amp;feature=related" rel="nofollow">link</a>).  But then, we had a choir director with really good taste.  He would never have thrown anything in simply because it was promoting Christianity.  And he usually let us have some say in what we were singing, giving us several options to choose from as a group when preparing for a concert or contest.</p>
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		<title>By: Kate</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/01/04/since-when-are-song-lyrics-about-jesus-considered-religiously-neutral/#comment-257823</link>
		<dc:creator>Kate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 00:04:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=7421#comment-257823</guid>
		<description>Things like the religious songs at the winter concerts were the reason I quite the choral music department at my school system when I was younger. Every single year we sang &quot;Go Tell it on the Mountain&quot; and other such blatantly Christian songs. I wouldn&#039;t have had such an issue if other faiths were represented. But they weren&#039;t. One year we briefly considered a Jewish song, but since it was in Hebrew, many of the students found the words &quot;too difficult to pronounce&quot;. When a friend of mine (a wiccan) and I refused to participate in the christian portion of the program, the director gave us an ultimatum. We could either deal with it, or quit. I don&#039;t regret walking out on it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Things like the religious songs at the winter concerts were the reason I quite the choral music department at my school system when I was younger. Every single year we sang &#8220;Go Tell it on the Mountain&#8221; and other such blatantly Christian songs. I wouldn&#8217;t have had such an issue if other faiths were represented. But they weren&#8217;t. One year we briefly considered a Jewish song, but since it was in Hebrew, many of the students found the words &#8220;too difficult to pronounce&#8221;. When a friend of mine (a wiccan) and I refused to participate in the christian portion of the program, the director gave us an ultimatum. We could either deal with it, or quit. I don&#8217;t regret walking out on it.</p>
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		<title>By: Freak</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/01/04/since-when-are-song-lyrics-about-jesus-considered-religiously-neutral/#comment-257618</link>
		<dc:creator>Freak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2009 11:46:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=7421#comment-257618</guid>
		<description>Derek:  The constitution proper says that there may be no religious test as a condition for holding public office.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Derek:  The constitution proper says that there may be no religious test as a condition for holding public office.</p>
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		<title>By: Cynical Jones</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/01/04/since-when-are-song-lyrics-about-jesus-considered-religiously-neutral/#comment-257497</link>
		<dc:creator>Cynical Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2009 01:48:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=7421#comment-257497</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;ONN and similar “news” sites typically cite no references for their claims. This is because much of their stuff is completely fabricated. They also like to cherry-pick parts of true stories/real research to suit their agenda, and giving links to the original would allow people to see what portions of the original they chose to ignore.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I came here to say something similar. I&#039;ve run across someone promoting the Liberty Counsel like crazy somewhere else. I&#039;m thinking they are making up their &quot;cases&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>ONN and similar “news” sites typically cite no references for their claims. This is because much of their stuff is completely fabricated. They also like to cherry-pick parts of true stories/real research to suit their agenda, and giving links to the original would allow people to see what portions of the original they chose to ignore.</p></blockquote>
<p>I came here to say something similar. I&#8217;ve run across someone promoting the Liberty Counsel like crazy somewhere else. I&#8217;m thinking they are making up their &#8220;cases&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Buffy</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/01/04/since-when-are-song-lyrics-about-jesus-considered-religiously-neutral/#comment-257441</link>
		<dc:creator>Buffy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 22:29:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=7421#comment-257441</guid>
		<description>ONN and similar &quot;news&quot; sites typically cite no references for their claims.  This is because much of their stuff is completely fabricated.  They also like to cherry-pick parts of true stories/real research to suit their agenda, and giving links to the original would allow people to see what portions of the original they chose to ignore.  I&#039;m glad you pointed out Staver&#039;s blatant hypocrisy.  It&#039;s just like his ilk to scream for &quot;religious freedom&quot;, but &lt;em&gt;theirs&lt;/em&gt; only.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ONN and similar &#8220;news&#8221; sites typically cite no references for their claims.  This is because much of their stuff is completely fabricated.  They also like to cherry-pick parts of true stories/real research to suit their agenda, and giving links to the original would allow people to see what portions of the original they chose to ignore.  I&#8217;m glad you pointed out Staver&#8217;s blatant hypocrisy.  It&#8217;s just like his ilk to scream for &#8220;religious freedom&#8221;, but <em>theirs</em> only.</p>
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		<title>By: Aj</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/01/04/since-when-are-song-lyrics-about-jesus-considered-religiously-neutral/#comment-257400</link>
		<dc:creator>Aj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 20:07:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=7421#comment-257400</guid>
		<description>The song didn&#039;t need to be changed but if anyone wanted to do that it&#039;s not hostile. I don&#039;t think schools should be &lt;em&gt;celebrating&lt;/em&gt; Christmas, but Christianity is too entrenched in the culture to ignore everything with it in. Staver seems to be demanding singing songs involving Christian stories. That&#039;s obviously not neutral and against the First Amendment, another stupid Christian that doesn&#039;t know the meaning of both.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The song didn&#8217;t need to be changed but if anyone wanted to do that it&#8217;s not hostile. I don&#8217;t think schools should be <em>celebrating</em> Christmas, but Christianity is too entrenched in the culture to ignore everything with it in. Staver seems to be demanding singing songs involving Christian stories. That&#8217;s obviously not neutral and against the First Amendment, another stupid Christian that doesn&#8217;t know the meaning of both.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan C.</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/01/04/since-when-are-song-lyrics-about-jesus-considered-religiously-neutral/#comment-257381</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan C.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 18:19:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=7421#comment-257381</guid>
		<description>When I was in high school my principal tried to tell me that everyone, everywhere celebrates Christmas.  Everyone.  In the entire world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I was in high school my principal tried to tell me that everyone, everywhere celebrates Christmas.  Everyone.  In the entire world.</p>
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		<title>By: pb</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/01/04/since-when-are-song-lyrics-about-jesus-considered-religiously-neutral/#comment-257375</link>
		<dc:creator>pb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 17:49:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=7421#comment-257375</guid>
		<description>When I was a precocious little eighth-grader at a public school in small-town New England, the song that pushed me over the edge was &quot;Do Lord.&quot; My chorus teacher always managed to sneak two or three Jesus tunes into every concert (holiday or otherwise), and I was mostly pretty placid about it. It didn&#039;t seem worthwhile to fight &quot;Silent Night&quot; at Christmastime. 

But in the spring of my eighth grade year, she made us sing &quot;Do Lord,&quot; and I flat-out refused to get up on the risers and sing, &quot;I took Jesus as my saviour, you take him too!&quot; I caused a fuss and my parents backed me up. The teacher ended up withdrawing the song, but there was an uproar — I lost friends and a parent wrote a letter to our local paper saying that my parents were raising me without any values.

A subsequent concert (in which I did not participate) featured the execrable &quot;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.lyricsmode.com/lyrics/d/dennis_jernigan/you_are_my_all_in_all.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;All in All&lt;/a&gt;,&quot; which I took as an attempt to rile me up. Luckily, the song was so bad that the joke was on them.

I have nothing against Handel or other religious songs that are historically/culturally significant or musically interesting. The problem is that many school choruses are so Jesus-heavy that non-Christians don&#039;t even bother to join. Frankly, I think it&#039;s a giant cop-out for music teachers to spend one of their two major concerts singing simple carols that most of the kids already know. What is that supposed to teach them, other than that their teachers love Jesus as much as they do?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I was a precocious little eighth-grader at a public school in small-town New England, the song that pushed me over the edge was &#8220;Do Lord.&#8221; My chorus teacher always managed to sneak two or three Jesus tunes into every concert (holiday or otherwise), and I was mostly pretty placid about it. It didn&#8217;t seem worthwhile to fight &#8220;Silent Night&#8221; at Christmastime. </p>
<p>But in the spring of my eighth grade year, she made us sing &#8220;Do Lord,&#8221; and I flat-out refused to get up on the risers and sing, &#8220;I took Jesus as my saviour, you take him too!&#8221; I caused a fuss and my parents backed me up. The teacher ended up withdrawing the song, but there was an uproar — I lost friends and a parent wrote a letter to our local paper saying that my parents were raising me without any values.</p>
<p>A subsequent concert (in which I did not participate) featured the execrable &#8220;<a href="http://www.lyricsmode.com/lyrics/d/dennis_jernigan/you_are_my_all_in_all.html" rel="nofollow">All in All</a>,&#8221; which I took as an attempt to rile me up. Luckily, the song was so bad that the joke was on them.</p>
<p>I have nothing against Handel or other religious songs that are historically/culturally significant or musically interesting. The problem is that many school choruses are so Jesus-heavy that non-Christians don&#8217;t even bother to join. Frankly, I think it&#8217;s a giant cop-out for music teachers to spend one of their two major concerts singing simple carols that most of the kids already know. What is that supposed to teach them, other than that their teachers love Jesus as much as they do?</p>
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		<title>By: Emily</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/01/04/since-when-are-song-lyrics-about-jesus-considered-religiously-neutral/#comment-257373</link>
		<dc:creator>Emily</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 17:37:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=7421#comment-257373</guid>
		<description>*rolls eyes*

I went to a public high school (wherein a large percentage of the student body were not religious) in Canada and we sang religious songs in the choir all the time. Not only for Christmas, but for competitions and other music nights. I thought they were absolutely beautiful, much better than the Rudolph crap you sing in elementary school. 

The school shouldn&#039;t&#039;ve had to change the words, and also, get over it. These songs are beautiful and deserve to be sung and played.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>*rolls eyes*</p>
<p>I went to a public high school (wherein a large percentage of the student body were not religious) in Canada and we sang religious songs in the choir all the time. Not only for Christmas, but for competitions and other music nights. I thought they were absolutely beautiful, much better than the Rudolph crap you sing in elementary school. </p>
<p>The school shouldn&#8217;t've had to change the words, and also, get over it. These songs are beautiful and deserve to be sung and played.</p>
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