<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: FFRF&#8217;s Latest Billboard Praises Darwin</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/01/30/ffrfs-latest-billboard/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/01/30/ffrfs-latest-billboard/</link>
	<description>by Hemant Mehta</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 28 May 2012 04:24:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.3</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: misterjustin</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/01/30/ffrfs-latest-billboard/#comment-266520</link>
		<dc:creator>misterjustin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 17:31:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=8407#comment-266520</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Against religious belief does not equal against religious people.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

This is a semantic argument. If I speak against religious belief to a religious person they&#039;re going to take it personally. Saying, &quot;atheism is dumb&quot; is going to spark a like response.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Doubt is a virtue, doubt is superior to faith.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

What I&#039;m speaking to is the idea posited by the sign that we &quot;evolve beyond belief.&quot; This implies that those without belief are somehow more evolved. A superior species if you will. While this may spark another semantic argument it is certainly going to elicit an emotional response from the intended audience.

It needs to be remembered that the audience for these signs is, at least in part, those with religious beliefs or those questioning their religious beliefs. If we&#039;re simply advertising to other atheists we are, if I may, preaching to the choir.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Against religious belief does not equal against religious people.</p></blockquote>
<p>This is a semantic argument. If I speak against religious belief to a religious person they&#8217;re going to take it personally. Saying, &#8220;atheism is dumb&#8221; is going to spark a like response.</p>
<blockquote><p>Doubt is a virtue, doubt is superior to faith.</p></blockquote>
<p>What I&#8217;m speaking to is the idea posited by the sign that we &#8220;evolve beyond belief.&#8221; This implies that those without belief are somehow more evolved. A superior species if you will. While this may spark another semantic argument it is certainly going to elicit an emotional response from the intended audience.</p>
<p>It needs to be remembered that the audience for these signs is, at least in part, those with religious beliefs or those questioning their religious beliefs. If we&#8217;re simply advertising to other atheists we are, if I may, preaching to the choir.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Lost Left Coaster</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/01/30/ffrfs-latest-billboard/#comment-266466</link>
		<dc:creator>Lost Left Coaster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 14:26:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=8407#comment-266466</guid>
		<description>My problem with the billboard is that it doesn&#039;t reflect the contributions of Wallace!  

But seriously, I agree with a lot of the people here.  Still, it is the 200th birthday of Darwin this year. And I&#039;m not big on the word &quot;praise&quot; in this context, but no harm in giving a major shout-out to Darwin, as people that respect science, because year by year, Darwin&#039;s far-reaching ideas are being proven more and more correct.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My problem with the billboard is that it doesn&#8217;t reflect the contributions of Wallace!  </p>
<p>But seriously, I agree with a lot of the people here.  Still, it is the 200th birthday of Darwin this year. And I&#8217;m not big on the word &#8220;praise&#8221; in this context, but no harm in giving a major shout-out to Darwin, as people that respect science, because year by year, Darwin&#8217;s far-reaching ideas are being proven more and more correct.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Richard Wade</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/01/30/ffrfs-latest-billboard/#comment-266169</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Wade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Feb 2009 17:29:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=8407#comment-266169</guid>
		<description>J.J. Ramsey:
Good point. There are always a few who are reachable or else none of us would be talking about this today. I&#039;ll take some deep, slow breaths, remember the stories I&#039;ve read right here on FA by people who found their way out of the ignorance labyrinth and renew my efforts to light candles rather than curse darkness.  

I&#039;ll model the behavior I want to see in others by changing my opinion because of a rational argument.  Thank you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>J.J. Ramsey:<br />
Good point. There are always a few who are reachable or else none of us would be talking about this today. I&#8217;ll take some deep, slow breaths, remember the stories I&#8217;ve read right here on FA by people who found their way out of the ignorance labyrinth and renew my efforts to light candles rather than curse darkness.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;ll model the behavior I want to see in others by changing my opinion because of a rational argument.  Thank you.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: J. J. Ramsey</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/01/30/ffrfs-latest-billboard/#comment-266136</link>
		<dc:creator>J. J. Ramsey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Feb 2009 12:58:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=8407#comment-266136</guid>
		<description>Richard Wade:
&lt;blockquote&gt;To my question, “So what?” you answered “A false belief will be reinforced.” To that I ask again, so what? They will think only those thoughts that fit their little, simple worlds. Only false beliefs have a chance in minds like that. We can’t be responsible for correcting their willful, hard-working, dedicated and fortified ignorance.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
The catch is that you are not only dealing with a group of willfully ignorant people--who are probably unreachable--but also those who are taught by these willfully ignorant people and are simply ignorant--and the latter may be more reachable.

More to the point, there&#039;s no reason to add barriers that don&#039;t have to be there. Just because we are stuck dealing with people who are bigoted against atheists doesn&#039;t mean that we should help reinforce the bigots&#039; canards.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard Wade:</p>
<blockquote><p>To my question, “So what?” you answered “A false belief will be reinforced.” To that I ask again, so what? They will think only those thoughts that fit their little, simple worlds. Only false beliefs have a chance in minds like that. We can’t be responsible for correcting their willful, hard-working, dedicated and fortified ignorance.</p></blockquote>
<p>The catch is that you are not only dealing with a group of willfully ignorant people&#8211;who are probably unreachable&#8211;but also those who are taught by these willfully ignorant people and are simply ignorant&#8211;and the latter may be more reachable.</p>
<p>More to the point, there&#8217;s no reason to add barriers that don&#8217;t have to be there. Just because we are stuck dealing with people who are bigoted against atheists doesn&#8217;t mean that we should help reinforce the bigots&#8217; canards.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Cannonball Jones</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/01/30/ffrfs-latest-billboard/#comment-266111</link>
		<dc:creator>Cannonball Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Feb 2009 10:50:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=8407#comment-266111</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s kinda funny when you first see it but all in all I hate it. All it does is add more fuel to the &#039;atheism is just another religion&#039; fire. Really not what we need. Let&#039;s try to keep religious language and imagery out of atheist communication eh? Well, except when we&#039;re mercilessly mocking it :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s kinda funny when you first see it but all in all I hate it. All it does is add more fuel to the &#8216;atheism is just another religion&#8217; fire. Really not what we need. Let&#8217;s try to keep religious language and imagery out of atheist communication eh? Well, except when we&#8217;re mercilessly mocking it <img src='http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: JimboB</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/01/30/ffrfs-latest-billboard/#comment-266037</link>
		<dc:creator>JimboB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Feb 2009 04:30:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=8407#comment-266037</guid>
		<description>writerdd,

I think one of your commenters said it best saying Dan isn&#039;t a very good PR person for atheistic advertising.  He&#039;s using too much of a &quot;sermon-esque&quot; style - the type of thing you expect from preachers.

It&#039;s sort of a catch 22... trying to appeal to a broad audience of freethinkers and many others without using tried-and-true marketing techniques he likely picked up before his journey out of fundamentalism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>writerdd,</p>
<p>I think one of your commenters said it best saying Dan isn&#8217;t a very good PR person for atheistic advertising.  He&#8217;s using too much of a &#8220;sermon-esque&#8221; style &#8211; the type of thing you expect from preachers.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s sort of a catch 22&#8230; trying to appeal to a broad audience of freethinkers and many others without using tried-and-true marketing techniques he likely picked up before his journey out of fundamentalism.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Richard Wade</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/01/30/ffrfs-latest-billboard/#comment-266019</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Wade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Feb 2009 03:37:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=8407#comment-266019</guid>
		<description>J.J.Ramsey, I agree with each of your points in response to my comment but I&#039;m beginning to think that for the vast majority of those people who would have their false belief about &quot;Darwin worship&quot; reinforced, or would misunderstand the satire, or would continue in their misconception about evolution, it&#039;s a completely futile, crazy-making waste of time to try to prevent every goofball notion they&#039;ll cook up whenever we open our mouths.  To my question, &quot;So what?&quot; you answered &quot;A false belief will be reinforced.&quot;  To that I ask again, &lt;em&gt;so what?&lt;/em&gt; They will think only those thoughts that fit their little, simple worlds. Only false beliefs have a chance in minds like that.  We can&#039;t be responsible for correcting their willful, hard-working, dedicated and fortified ignorance. They and their children will be handicapped living in a world that is more dependent on science every day, and we may sadly have to leave them behind. 

Or maybe I just need a vacation. I make a living explaining scientific concepts to children and lay adults.  With some people, the task seems like I&#039;m tossing marshmallows at a battleship. Maybe somebody can give me a pep talk.

I wouldn&#039;t have suggested this billboard idea either, mainly because it&#039;s just not worth the money.  Not much bang per buck for good or ill. The positive thing it might do is to notify isolated atheists in the area that they are not alone. The negative things are the effects you and others have mentioned, but it&#039;s not like this billboard is a great, catastrophic blunder that will set us back decades.  A few more bumpkins will be a little more bumpkiny.  Darn.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>J.J.Ramsey, I agree with each of your points in response to my comment but I&#8217;m beginning to think that for the vast majority of those people who would have their false belief about &#8220;Darwin worship&#8221; reinforced, or would misunderstand the satire, or would continue in their misconception about evolution, it&#8217;s a completely futile, crazy-making waste of time to try to prevent every goofball notion they&#8217;ll cook up whenever we open our mouths.  To my question, &#8220;So what?&#8221; you answered &#8220;A false belief will be reinforced.&#8221;  To that I ask again, <em>so what?</em> They will think only those thoughts that fit their little, simple worlds. Only false beliefs have a chance in minds like that.  We can&#8217;t be responsible for correcting their willful, hard-working, dedicated and fortified ignorance. They and their children will be handicapped living in a world that is more dependent on science every day, and we may sadly have to leave them behind. </p>
<p>Or maybe I just need a vacation. I make a living explaining scientific concepts to children and lay adults.  With some people, the task seems like I&#8217;m tossing marshmallows at a battleship. Maybe somebody can give me a pep talk.</p>
<p>I wouldn&#8217;t have suggested this billboard idea either, mainly because it&#8217;s just not worth the money.  Not much bang per buck for good or ill. The positive thing it might do is to notify isolated atheists in the area that they are not alone. The negative things are the effects you and others have mentioned, but it&#8217;s not like this billboard is a great, catastrophic blunder that will set us back decades.  A few more bumpkins will be a little more bumpkiny.  Darn.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Pseudonym</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/01/30/ffrfs-latest-billboard/#comment-265980</link>
		<dc:creator>Pseudonym</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Feb 2009 01:47:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=8407#comment-265980</guid>
		<description>WWDD?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WWDD?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: J. J. Ramsey</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/01/30/ffrfs-latest-billboard/#comment-265966</link>
		<dc:creator>J. J. Ramsey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Feb 2009 00:35:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=8407#comment-265966</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Stop and ask yourselves, “So what if some people think that?” What bad thing will come of it?&lt;/blockquote&gt;
A false belief will be reinforced.

&lt;blockquote&gt;How many creationists have you met who respond to a rational argument on the subject of evolution or atheists?&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;a href=&quot;http://home.entouch.net/dmd/gstory.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Glenn Morton&lt;/a&gt; comes to mind. Well, I haven&#039;t met him, obviously, but other than that ...

&lt;blockquote&gt;The word “praise” is satire on the ubiquitous “Praise the Lord, or God, or Jesus, or Allah, or whatever.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
But as satire it flops. If &quot;Praise Darwin&quot; were said in front of a crowd who already understood that scientists didn&#039;t treat Darwin as a demigod, the overstatement in referring to him as one might Jesus, etc. would be funny. As it stands, the billboard is aimed at a crowd that may be far more ignorant.

&lt;blockquote&gt;The phrase “evolve beyond belief” is probably meant figuratively&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Yes, but it&#039;s a figure of speech based off of mistaken ideas about the theory of evolution.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Stop and ask yourselves, “So what if some people think that?” What bad thing will come of it?</p></blockquote>
<p>A false belief will be reinforced.</p>
<blockquote><p>How many creationists have you met who respond to a rational argument on the subject of evolution or atheists?</p></blockquote>
<p><a href="http://home.entouch.net/dmd/gstory.htm" rel="nofollow">Glenn Morton</a> comes to mind. Well, I haven&#8217;t met him, obviously, but other than that &#8230;</p>
<blockquote><p>The word “praise” is satire on the ubiquitous “Praise the Lord, or God, or Jesus, or Allah, or whatever.</p></blockquote>
<p>But as satire it flops. If &#8220;Praise Darwin&#8221; were said in front of a crowd who already understood that scientists didn&#8217;t treat Darwin as a demigod, the overstatement in referring to him as one might Jesus, etc. would be funny. As it stands, the billboard is aimed at a crowd that may be far more ignorant.</p>
<blockquote><p>The phrase “evolve beyond belief” is probably meant figuratively</p></blockquote>
<p>Yes, but it&#8217;s a figure of speech based off of mistaken ideas about the theory of evolution.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Richard Wade</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/01/30/ffrfs-latest-billboard/#comment-265948</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Wade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jan 2009 23:20:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=8407#comment-265948</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;...but the “Praise Darwin” bit is just feeding into the stereotype that atheists treat Darwin as some infallible God.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I thought that at first as well, but then I had another thought, &quot;So what?&quot;

Stop and ask yourselves, &quot;So what if some people think that?&quot;  What bad thing will come of it?  Anyone who thinks that way is going to be thinking all sorts of idiotic things about atheists, and nothing we do will change them. How many creationists have you met who respond to a rational argument on the subject of evolution or atheists?

The word “praise” is satire on the ubiquitous “Praise the Lord,  or God, or Jesus, or Allah, or whatever.  Satire can be a powerful way of challenging widespread assumptions but it always runs the risk of being taken seriously by a few people who just don&#039;t have the wits to tell the difference.  So yes, it is a mild anti-religious dig more than a pro-atheist statement, but I am beginning to think that millennia of the religious enjoying immunity from critical thinking has left them too thin-skinned.

The phrase &quot;evolve beyond belief&quot; is probably meant figuratively, as in something like &quot;develop your own mind to no longer indulge in belief,&quot; but I also think it applies here literally as well.  We will simply have to wait out the long, slow process of natural selection in the realm of ideas.  If a new way of thinking has an advantage in the changing intellectual environment and an older way has a disadvantage, then eventually the old mentality will become extinct. Stay strong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>&#8230;but the “Praise Darwin” bit is just feeding into the stereotype that atheists treat Darwin as some infallible God.</p></blockquote>
<p>I thought that at first as well, but then I had another thought, &#8220;So what?&#8221;</p>
<p>Stop and ask yourselves, &#8220;So what if some people think that?&#8221;  What bad thing will come of it?  Anyone who thinks that way is going to be thinking all sorts of idiotic things about atheists, and nothing we do will change them. How many creationists have you met who respond to a rational argument on the subject of evolution or atheists?</p>
<p>The word “praise” is satire on the ubiquitous “Praise the Lord,  or God, or Jesus, or Allah, or whatever.  Satire can be a powerful way of challenging widespread assumptions but it always runs the risk of being taken seriously by a few people who just don&#8217;t have the wits to tell the difference.  So yes, it is a mild anti-religious dig more than a pro-atheist statement, but I am beginning to think that millennia of the religious enjoying immunity from critical thinking has left them too thin-skinned.</p>
<p>The phrase &#8220;evolve beyond belief&#8221; is probably meant figuratively, as in something like &#8220;develop your own mind to no longer indulge in belief,&#8221; but I also think it applies here literally as well.  We will simply have to wait out the long, slow process of natural selection in the realm of ideas.  If a new way of thinking has an advantage in the changing intellectual environment and an older way has a disadvantage, then eventually the old mentality will become extinct. Stay strong.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

<!-- Performance optimized by W3 Total Cache. Learn more: http://www.w3-edge.com/wordpress-plugins/

Minified using disk: basic (User agent is rejected)
Page Caching using disk: enhanced (User agent is rejected)
Database Caching 1/9 queries in 0.014 seconds using disk: basic
Object Caching 393/406 objects using disk: basic
Content Delivery Network via Amazon Web Services: S3: wp.patheos.com.s3.amazonaws.com (user agent is rejected)

Served from: www.patheos.com @ 2012-05-27 23:32:55 -->
