Comments on: Alcoholics Anonymous Not As Helpful as Secular Alternatives

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Wed, 27 Jul 2011 22:00:00 +0000

Here’s a much different approach to addition. Lots of those fundamentalist Christians dislike Driscoll. To my mind that makes him a Christian voice worth listening too. (Note my bias – Christian, just doing some research on addiction and this blog came up.)

http://marshill.com/media/proverbs-2009/addiction

Take care, Mark

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Wed, 27 Jul 2011 21:52:00 +0000

There’s a number of ways to make some progress towards recovery, or even all the way. I think this is a non-argument because Atheists and Christians have recovered using a wide variety of means. One side doesn’t disprove the helpfulness of the other. Believing that research has managed the variables and identified that one atheism is more helpful way to go is probably a little misguided.

By: AA delists secular group in Toronto

AA delists secular group in Toronto — Mon, 06 Jun 2011 12:30:42 +0000

[...] — hell, one peer-reviewed research paper has shown that secular version of the Twelve Steps is more effective than the “spiritual” version — but you’re still not technically an AA [...]

By: Sheri McMahon

Sheri McMahon — Sun, 05 Sep 2010 21:26:55 +0000

added note to Paul: I went to the same college Art Horvath did, and based on the education provided there it makes sense he would have decided to lead the4 SMART movement–which I would like to see develop a larger presence in ND where I live.

By: Sheri McMahon

Sheri McMahon — Sun, 05 Sep 2010 21:22:00 +0000

Ok, I missed the discussion by a year and a half. I know about SMART recovery (my husband, who struggled with alcohol abuse, died of hep C/alcohol related liver failure after being sober for a couple of years NOT because of AA; during times when he attempted the AA stuff he struggled with that too, he knew it did not work for him). I am also on a public mental health services advisory council in an appointed position. Our public system claims it does not force AA, but in fact treatment programs are permeated with AA for all practical purposes (they figure replacing “step” with “processes” immunizes them from any legal concerns). Many people come to these programs from the courts. State drug court standards require AA/NA attendance AND having a sponsor. Also, juvenile corrections uses a Hazeldon AA program. These meet legal definitions of coercion because they are associated with incarceration. There are, in fact, studies measuring the impact of AA (MATCH, in the early 1990′s is one). The business about how it’s the only program that works–reinforced in the treatment programs our public system provides–is a crock. And sorry to the atheists who have found AA/NA helpful, that’s not what we call an evidence basis. No different than old folks comparing arthritis remedies, you know? But people consistently buy the notion (word of mouth advertising is the most effective, right?) As for spiritual vs religious, sorry–the courts have already dispensed with that spurious argument.

I might as well throw my own non-scientific anecdote in here. I attended Al-Anon for awhile. I had existing diagnoses of PTSD, major depression, and schizotypal personality disorder. I’d had a drawn-out psychotic break in which I thought the cosmic powers were talking to me through soap operas and cloud formations. (Sounds trippy, but it was fraught with anxiety). I read the Al-Anon books, I went to the meetings, and I began to worry about the potential for another psychotic break, at which point I broke ranks. A phone call to Jack Trimpey’s wife (Rational Recovery) helped clear my head and make plans to get out of a living situation dominated by my partner’s substance use (we continued a separate households romance until he got sober 14 years later–that was the requirement I made for marriage, and that is when it happened). I have friends in AA who have plenty of common sense and decency but I have met more than a few steppers who spook the bejeebers out of me, and some of the worst were those my poor partner was stuck with in treatment programs he was forced into. These were the same “professionals” who didn’t say, “gee, liver levels are up, maybe a HCV test is in order”–which done earlier would likely have saved his life.

By: Paul A. Toth

Paul A. Toth — Wed, 07 Apr 2010 12:44:08 +0000

I can relate to your post. I’ve been there, done that. Fortunately, I found the answer to many of my problems through REBT, a method of thinking rationally that has tremendously lowered my anxiety and depression. More to the point, I discovered a secular group known as SMART Recovery, which offers meetings involving no dogma whatsoever, only clear and rational thinking. If you’ve been looking for an alternative route to recovery, I suggest you join the SMART Recovery Facebook fan club at http://www.facebook.com/pages/SMART-Recovery-USA/102376027397?ref=ts#!/pages/SMART-Recovery-USA/102376027397?ref=ts and visit their main website at http://www.smartrecovery.org/

Online support groups are available, along with a growing number of meetings and a great deal of information about the SMART Recovery approach. Whether or not you prefer group involvement, I think you’ll find SMART Recovery to be a great alternative.

By: Scott Miller

Scott Miller — Sun, 21 Mar 2010 07:06:29 +0000

I am a smart successful guy, I retired at age 38. I also have held a gun in my mouth, been hospitalized with a failing liver, was miraculously revived from asphyxiating in my own vomit, abused 2 wives, and ended up in a dark apartment lying in soiled underwear while piling bottles in the corner. I am an atheist. I have been in aa for many years. I am sober. Good luck with your little debate.

By: Steve L

Steve L — Thu, 21 Jan 2010 20:31:23 +0000

I have been going to AA for 20 years
I didnt get sober until almost 5 years ago after I took god and prayer out of my program.
AA in bible belt tennessee has turned me into an athiest.
You can not “believe” and get and maintain sobriety in AA. I and many of my acquaintances who are still in the closet, are.

By: R.W. Bonner

R.W. Bonner — Sat, 16 Jan 2010 19:29:40 +0000

Simply stated, AA is the “go to” for state correctional facilities. And since it is basically a religious based organization, it has been proven time after time in state AND federal courts that it is a violation of our First Ammendment rights to be forced by any government agency to attend AA meetings. I have been to these forced meetings and played their game until I found this out. I do not like being told that I am a powerless and pathetic human being!

By: Curtis C

Curtis C — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 17:43:59 +0000

I just read this particular column, though I’ve seen your blog before. Interesting about the recovery procedure for people who got spiritual advice versus those who got secular advice.

Well, I may (or may not) have made history last year by starting an Alcoholics Anonymous group of atheists and agnostics in my home town. The General Service Office even gave it an official number, 688207, so it is listed in the Directory of groups in the U.S.

I’ve spoken several times on the phone and face to face with several of the full time paid “trusted servants” who operate the GSO and have found them to be nothing short of supportive.

I actually believe that since the organization operates from the bottom up, from the groups themselves up to the GSO, that they are keenly aware of how many atheists and agnostics are in A.A.

I think in the near future we will see some sort of change in language in the pamphlet literature, or maybe a pamphlet or two on just the subject of atheist and agnosticism in A.A. There are people in A.A. groups who are thumpers of the Big Book to the point that they don’t realize atheists don’t need “to go to that length”. The Big Book says we are “willing to go to any length,” and I went as far as I had to.

Why go further? So not only did I start a real face to face group, but I publish a blog (linked) and in that blog is a link to a Google Group that I started. It desperately needs members, but the members it has now are friendly and we are there to talk to if you need someone who understands.

Good luck to everyone,
Curtis C