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	<title>Comments on: Can Atheists Be Conscientious Objectors?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/02/17/can-atheists-be-conscientious-objectors/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/02/17/can-atheists-be-conscientious-objectors/</link>
	<description>by Hemant Mehta</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 28 May 2012 04:52:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Chris Baskins</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/02/17/can-atheists-be-conscientious-objectors/#comment-275738</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Baskins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Feb 2009 04:41:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=8828#comment-275738</guid>
		<description>Exactly people don&#039;t always think about what will happen until they get there.  Also being a Christian or muslim should mean nothing in this situation.  All these religions mean is that you believe in a messiah not a god.  If you don&#039;t believe that Jesus is a messiah you are going to hell and if you don&#039;t believe in Muhammed you are going to hell, these are not beliefs in god for only to believe that you have to pray through a man&#039;s name to connect togod so lets skip this stuff and become agnostic and pray directly to god without letting a mortal get into the way.  .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Exactly people don&#8217;t always think about what will happen until they get there.  Also being a Christian or muslim should mean nothing in this situation.  All these religions mean is that you believe in a messiah not a god.  If you don&#8217;t believe that Jesus is a messiah you are going to hell and if you don&#8217;t believe in Muhammed you are going to hell, these are not beliefs in god for only to believe that you have to pray through a man&#8217;s name to connect togod so lets skip this stuff and become agnostic and pray directly to god without letting a mortal get into the way.  .</p>
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		<title>By: Beetle</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/02/17/can-atheists-be-conscientious-objectors/#comment-272292</link>
		<dc:creator>Beetle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 17:49:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=8828#comment-272292</guid>
		<description>Addressing the question, “Why didn’t you think of this before you signed up?” is very much a standard part of any CO application.  That aspect of the case doesn’t strike me as particularly unique.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Addressing the question, “Why didn’t you think of this before you signed up?” is very much a standard part of any CO application.  That aspect of the case doesn’t strike me as particularly unique.</p>
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		<title>By: Ty</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/02/17/can-atheists-be-conscientious-objectors/#comment-271920</link>
		<dc:creator>Ty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 01:07:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=8828#comment-271920</guid>
		<description>I have to agree with the people who wonder why this guy never thought about this PRIOR to signing the contract.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to agree with the people who wonder why this guy never thought about this PRIOR to signing the contract.</p>
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		<title>By: The Ridger</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/02/17/can-atheists-be-conscientious-objectors/#comment-271902</link>
		<dc:creator>The Ridger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 00:42:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=8828#comment-271902</guid>
		<description>Anyway, the answer is, I think, yes. Conscience is not restricted to members of organized religions - or any theist, for that matter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anyway, the answer is, I think, yes. Conscience is not restricted to members of organized religions &#8211; or any theist, for that matter.</p>
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		<title>By: The Ridger</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/02/17/can-atheists-be-conscientious-objectors/#comment-271900</link>
		<dc:creator>The Ridger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 00:40:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=8828#comment-271900</guid>
		<description>So he&#039;s a deist of some sort - are we going to damn him for not using the label we like? It&#039;s not like &quot;agnostic&quot; still means what Huxley meant when he coined it.* It&#039;s very possible for someone to join the army without realizing how they will react to combat. Maybe CO isn&#039;t the best label, either, but if he means he won&#039;t kill, he&#039;ll probably get others in his unit killed. 

I recall a movie (The Lighthorsemen) in which a young Aussie soldier froze up under fire. The Brits in that war would have shot him for cowardice; the Aussies put him to driving an ambulance. Unarmed. 

Our fetishization of The Warrior is a symptom of a deep sickness, I think. Yes, we need soldiers, but do we need to worship them, and destroy those who don&#039;t measure up?

ps - I should probably say that I was in the army for ten years

* Positively the principle may be expressed: In matters of your intellect, follow your reason as far as it will take you, without regard to any other consideration. And negatively: In matters of the intellect, do not pretend that conclusions are certain which are not demonstrated or demonstrable. That I take to be the agnostic faith, which if a man keep whole and undefiled, he shall not be ashamed to look the universe in the face, whatever the future may have in store for him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So he&#8217;s a deist of some sort &#8211; are we going to damn him for not using the label we like? It&#8217;s not like &#8220;agnostic&#8221; still means what Huxley meant when he coined it.* It&#8217;s very possible for someone to join the army without realizing how they will react to combat. Maybe CO isn&#8217;t the best label, either, but if he means he won&#8217;t kill, he&#8217;ll probably get others in his unit killed. </p>
<p>I recall a movie (The Lighthorsemen) in which a young Aussie soldier froze up under fire. The Brits in that war would have shot him for cowardice; the Aussies put him to driving an ambulance. Unarmed. </p>
<p>Our fetishization of The Warrior is a symptom of a deep sickness, I think. Yes, we need soldiers, but do we need to worship them, and destroy those who don&#8217;t measure up?</p>
<p>ps &#8211; I should probably say that I was in the army for ten years</p>
<p>* Positively the principle may be expressed: In matters of your intellect, follow your reason as far as it will take you, without regard to any other consideration. And negatively: In matters of the intellect, do not pretend that conclusions are certain which are not demonstrated or demonstrable. That I take to be the agnostic faith, which if a man keep whole and undefiled, he shall not be ashamed to look the universe in the face, whatever the future may have in store for him.</p>
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		<title>By: Crux Australis</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/02/17/can-atheists-be-conscientious-objectors/#comment-271804</link>
		<dc:creator>Crux Australis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 21:52:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=8828#comment-271804</guid>
		<description>I work with a fundamental creationist/Christian...who used to be in the army. He is very staunch and tough, but I have yet to ask him how he could justify being trained to take someone else&#039;s life. That sound you hear, is my irony gland rupturing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I work with a fundamental creationist/Christian&#8230;who used to be in the army. He is very staunch and tough, but I have yet to ask him how he could justify being trained to take someone else&#8217;s life. That sound you hear, is my irony gland rupturing.</p>
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		<title>By: Erp</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/02/17/can-atheists-be-conscientious-objectors/#comment-271762</link>
		<dc:creator>Erp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 20:09:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=8828#comment-271762</guid>
		<description>I should point out that this quandary also applies to immigrants applying to become citizens.  They have to take an oath (or affirmation) that they will defend the US with arms unless they are COs in which case they can omit that part of the oath (but they have to prove that status).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should point out that this quandary also applies to immigrants applying to become citizens.  They have to take an oath (or affirmation) that they will defend the US with arms unless they are COs in which case they can omit that part of the oath (but they have to prove that status).</p>
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		<title>By: Curtis</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/02/17/can-atheists-be-conscientious-objectors/#comment-271711</link>
		<dc:creator>Curtis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 17:58:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=8828#comment-271711</guid>
		<description>My initial reaction to Aguayo&#039;s claim was very dismissive - he enlisted and when the going got tough he ran away.

Then I read that he had already done one tour of duty in Iraq.  I think he should have been able to quit the army for any reason.  I respect his courage for fighting in a war and, IMO, he should be let out of his contract.  I do not care whether he wanted out for moral reason or because he missed his mother&#039;s cooking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My initial reaction to Aguayo&#8217;s claim was very dismissive &#8211; he enlisted and when the going got tough he ran away.</p>
<p>Then I read that he had already done one tour of duty in Iraq.  I think he should have been able to quit the army for any reason.  I respect his courage for fighting in a war and, IMO, he should be let out of his contract.  I do not care whether he wanted out for moral reason or because he missed his mother&#8217;s cooking.</p>
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		<title>By: andrew</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/02/17/can-atheists-be-conscientious-objectors/#comment-271708</link>
		<dc:creator>andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 17:51:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=8828#comment-271708</guid>
		<description>FFFFUCCCCKK!!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FFFFUCCCCKK!!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/02/17/can-atheists-be-conscientious-objectors/#comment-271698</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 17:35:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=8828#comment-271698</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;It is difficult to assess the depths of his beliefs because they rest solely within his own thinking and personal values without the support of background, family, or faith group. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

I think this quote by Karen Frantz quoting the military chaplain disturbs me the most.

Anyone, and many, many do, fake a depth of belief with the &quot;support&quot; of background, family, or faith group.  

No, each person&#039;s faith and beliefs must rest solely within their own thinking and personal values.  Anything more is simply culture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>It is difficult to assess the depths of his beliefs because they rest solely within his own thinking and personal values without the support of background, family, or faith group. </p></blockquote>
<p>I think this quote by Karen Frantz quoting the military chaplain disturbs me the most.</p>
<p>Anyone, and many, many do, fake a depth of belief with the &#8220;support&#8221; of background, family, or faith group.  </p>
<p>No, each person&#8217;s faith and beliefs must rest solely within their own thinking and personal values.  Anything more is simply culture.</p>
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