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	<title>Comments on: Can You Avoid Religious Psychologists?</title>
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	<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/02/21/can-you-avoid-religious-psychologists/</link>
	<description>by Hemant Mehta</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2012 16:11:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: thought</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/02/21/can-you-avoid-religious-psychologists/#comment-732562</link>
		<dc:creator>thought</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 May 2011 06:14:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=8909#comment-732562</guid>
		<description>Having your cake and eating it too is not &#039;scientifically&#039; possible. Look &lt;em&gt;thoughtfully&lt;/em&gt; into the concept of free will. 

Jesus does not like the F-word btw (or so I&#039;ve been told...).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having your cake and eating it too is not &#8216;scientifically&#8217; possible. Look <em>thoughtfully</em> into the concept of free will. </p>
<p>Jesus does not like the F-word btw (or so I&#8217;ve been told&#8230;).</p>
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		<title>By: jjj</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/02/21/can-you-avoid-religious-psychologists/#comment-639087</link>
		<dc:creator>jjj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Jan 2011 03:29:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=8909#comment-639087</guid>
		<description>As a Christian, I do not appreciate doctors who let their religious beliefs influence their work, it&#039;s unprofessional, and awkward.

How ever believing in God, believing we are here for a dualistic reason, is not superstitious, it is normal. I would not trust my child in the hands of a genetic determinist who does not believe in free will, which is the position most atheist doctors take. 

So fuck that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a Christian, I do not appreciate doctors who let their religious beliefs influence their work, it&#8217;s unprofessional, and awkward.</p>
<p>How ever believing in God, believing we are here for a dualistic reason, is not superstitious, it is normal. I would not trust my child in the hands of a genetic determinist who does not believe in free will, which is the position most atheist doctors take. </p>
<p>So fuck that.</p>
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		<title>By: Jenni</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/02/21/can-you-avoid-religious-psychologists/#comment-587676</link>
		<dc:creator>Jenni</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Nov 2010 20:51:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=8909#comment-587676</guid>
		<description>I thank you all for this post and commentary, it has been &lt;em&gt;enlightening&lt;/em&gt;. I was shocked by my child&#039;s therapist bringing religion into session. I have &lt;strong&gt;never &lt;/strong&gt;seen that before and when I was younger I was counseled by a lady who worked for Catholic Charities! I found this post by attempting to Google atheist psychologists, FYI. I was not sure what to do, it felt like it was a violation of some kind- I came away feeling like my trust had been violated. I am relieved to see I wasn&#039;t expecting too much and feel good now (after reading this)about my decision to seek care elsewhere. Thanks to all of you!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thank you all for this post and commentary, it has been <em>enlightening</em>. I was shocked by my child&#8217;s therapist bringing religion into session. I have <strong>never </strong>seen that before and when I was younger I was counseled by a lady who worked for Catholic Charities! I found this post by attempting to Google atheist psychologists, FYI. I was not sure what to do, it felt like it was a violation of some kind- I came away feeling like my trust had been violated. I am relieved to see I wasn&#8217;t expecting too much and feel good now (after reading this)about my decision to seek care elsewhere. Thanks to all of you!</p>
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		<title>By: Marsha</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/02/21/can-you-avoid-religious-psychologists/#comment-274724</link>
		<dc:creator>Marsha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 22:44:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=8909#comment-274724</guid>
		<description>My partner has had a couple of appointments w/an specialist dentist who is a &quot;Christian&quot; dentist, and has the &quot;Christian Dentist&#039;s Creed&quot; displayed in the waiting room.  She&#039;s dying to tell him she&#039;s Jewish (she&#039;s not)and ask him if he only treats Christians just to see what he would say.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My partner has had a couple of appointments w/an specialist dentist who is a &#8220;Christian&#8221; dentist, and has the &#8220;Christian Dentist&#8217;s Creed&#8221; displayed in the waiting room.  She&#8217;s dying to tell him she&#8217;s Jewish (she&#8217;s not)and ask him if he only treats Christians just to see what he would say.</p>
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		<title>By: SarahH</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/02/21/can-you-avoid-religious-psychologists/#comment-274328</link>
		<dc:creator>SarahH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 20:25:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=8909#comment-274328</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I think it’s actually very lucky that such a blatant issue came up first.&lt;/blockquote&gt;Word.

The first thing I ask when I see a therapist/psychologist/counselor/psychiatrist is &quot;Do you have any strong religious beliefs that influence your practice?&quot; and if the answer is &quot;yes&quot; I&#039;m out of there.  I was sent to a Christian counselor for treatment by my parents when I began suffering from an eating disorder, and it was incredibly awful.  I still considered myself a strong Christian at the time, and I was still horrified at his incompetent style - telling me that I needed to get closer to Jesus in order to get better, for instance.

Just a year and a half ago, well after I realized I didn&#039;t believe in God anymore, I saw a different therapist for treatment (again, for the eating disorder) and found out at the second appointment that she held some crazy New Age beliefs, including the claim that she &quot;healed&quot; a patient with ALS by teaching her to love her body.  I wish, in retrospect, that I&#039;d been more specific when I explained that we &quot;weren&#039;t compatible&quot; to her secretary.  &quot;She&#039;s a complete loon and shouldn&#039;t be set loose on mentally ill people&quot; would have been more accurate.

Anyway, consider yourself lucky to have avoided this guy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I think it’s actually very lucky that such a blatant issue came up first.</p></blockquote>
<p>Word.</p>
<p>The first thing I ask when I see a therapist/psychologist/counselor/psychiatrist is &#8220;Do you have any strong religious beliefs that influence your practice?&#8221; and if the answer is &#8220;yes&#8221; I&#8217;m out of there.  I was sent to a Christian counselor for treatment by my parents when I began suffering from an eating disorder, and it was incredibly awful.  I still considered myself a strong Christian at the time, and I was still horrified at his incompetent style &#8211; telling me that I needed to get closer to Jesus in order to get better, for instance.</p>
<p>Just a year and a half ago, well after I realized I didn&#8217;t believe in God anymore, I saw a different therapist for treatment (again, for the eating disorder) and found out at the second appointment that she held some crazy New Age beliefs, including the claim that she &#8220;healed&#8221; a patient with ALS by teaching her to love her body.  I wish, in retrospect, that I&#8217;d been more specific when I explained that we &#8220;weren&#8217;t compatible&#8221; to her secretary.  &#8220;She&#8217;s a complete loon and shouldn&#8217;t be set loose on mentally ill people&#8221; would have been more accurate.</p>
<p>Anyway, consider yourself lucky to have avoided this guy.</p>
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		<title>By: yes_affirmative</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/02/21/can-you-avoid-religious-psychologists/#comment-274313</link>
		<dc:creator>yes_affirmative</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 19:18:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=8909#comment-274313</guid>
		<description>I have to disagree with people who are suggesting vetting therapists with very specific &quot;do you practice from a Christian worldview&quot;-type questions. 

I disagree because that&#039;s not going to weed out all the therapists who have a faith-based agenda to push. In my experience, you have to watch out for New Age-y therapists every bit as much as you have to watch out for the fundamentalist Christians. My husband recently quit a group therapy class because the ostensibly secular therapist wanted them to read &quot;The Secret&quot; and kept talking about, &quot;how you have to believe in and draw your strength from something.&quot; 

&lt;strong&gt;A far better way of getting the therapist you want is to ask about their take on evidence-based medicine.&lt;/strong&gt;

I don&#039;t care what religion or spiritual woo-woo my doctor or therapist practices at home. I don&#039;t really even care if they have a cross up on the wall in the office. 

I do care that they don&#039;t proselytize and I very much DO care whether the treatments they&#039;re prescribing are backed by science.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to disagree with people who are suggesting vetting therapists with very specific &#8220;do you practice from a Christian worldview&#8221;-type questions. </p>
<p>I disagree because that&#8217;s not going to weed out all the therapists who have a faith-based agenda to push. In my experience, you have to watch out for New Age-y therapists every bit as much as you have to watch out for the fundamentalist Christians. My husband recently quit a group therapy class because the ostensibly secular therapist wanted them to read &#8220;The Secret&#8221; and kept talking about, &#8220;how you have to believe in and draw your strength from something.&#8221; </p>
<p><strong>A far better way of getting the therapist you want is to ask about their take on evidence-based medicine.</strong></p>
<p>I don&#8217;t care what religion or spiritual woo-woo my doctor or therapist practices at home. I don&#8217;t really even care if they have a cross up on the wall in the office. </p>
<p>I do care that they don&#8217;t proselytize and I very much DO care whether the treatments they&#8217;re prescribing are backed by science.</p>
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		<title>By: Ziztur</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/02/21/can-you-avoid-religious-psychologists/#comment-274262</link>
		<dc:creator>Ziztur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 16:30:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=8909#comment-274262</guid>
		<description>I had an experience where I sought counsel for depression. I signed up for counseling via my grad school health plan, and when I arrived for my appointment I noted the building was &quot;faith and family counseling&quot;.

My counselor had a degree from a seminary. I told her that if she twelve-stepped me or told me to surrender my problems to a higher power that I&#039;d leave. She told me she&#039;d &quot;put on her secular hat&quot; for me. She wasn&#039;t so bad, actually, but I think at that time in my life it was too complicated even for her to handle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had an experience where I sought counsel for depression. I signed up for counseling via my grad school health plan, and when I arrived for my appointment I noted the building was &#8220;faith and family counseling&#8221;.</p>
<p>My counselor had a degree from a seminary. I told her that if she twelve-stepped me or told me to surrender my problems to a higher power that I&#8217;d leave. She told me she&#8217;d &#8220;put on her secular hat&#8221; for me. She wasn&#8217;t so bad, actually, but I think at that time in my life it was too complicated even for her to handle.</p>
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		<title>By: Ape Toast</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/02/21/can-you-avoid-religious-psychologists/#comment-274210</link>
		<dc:creator>Ape Toast</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 13:21:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=8909#comment-274210</guid>
		<description>After &lt;em&gt;redressing &lt;/em&gt;the issue of my bi-polar disorder, (I prefer manic-depression, more descriptive) I found a counselor, at a regional &lt;strong&gt;&lt;em&gt;public &lt;/em&gt;&lt;/strong&gt; facility. Shortly after arriving in her cross strewn office (already uncomfortable) she went on a “Stephen King is Evil” tirade; responding to my list of favorite authors. My Atheism was just fuel for her fire. The remainder of the initial interview is fuzzy. (I was steaming – but in control) I never came back. After a few weeks my wife (A born again Christian) convinced me to call in a complaint. Apparently I was not the only person to be harassed by this psychovangelist. She had been let go shortly after I had seen her.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After <em>redressing </em>the issue of my bi-polar disorder, (I prefer manic-depression, more descriptive) I found a counselor, at a regional <strong><em>public </em></strong> facility. Shortly after arriving in her cross strewn office (already uncomfortable) she went on a “Stephen King is Evil” tirade; responding to my list of favorite authors. My Atheism was just fuel for her fire. The remainder of the initial interview is fuzzy. (I was steaming – but in control) I never came back. After a few weeks my wife (A born again Christian) convinced me to call in a complaint. Apparently I was not the only person to be harassed by this psychovangelist. She had been let go shortly after I had seen her.</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/02/21/can-you-avoid-religious-psychologists/#comment-274184</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 11:00:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=8909#comment-274184</guid>
		<description>I am currently studying psychology. Psychologists do not have to read Freud and the comparisons to Newton are inaccurate. Freud exists merely as a history note in most modern psychology courses Newton constructed theories that hold true (to a certain level of precision) under most situations whereas Freud made stuff up. Freud never really tested his ideas because few of them were really falsifiable. He could explain any outcome, often with the same theory. This was part of his appeal, and part of his failing as a scientist.

Anyway, as other have suggested, psychologist is a protected term in most countries. To call yourself a psychologist you typically need to complete 6 or more years of study (masters level) and most psychologists are registered with a professional organisation eg APA in USA.

Psychologists are typically (universally, I hope) required to be familiar with the scientific method, research methods and statistics. Psychologists are required to, where available, administer treatments with established reliability and validity. It is considered unethical not to.

A counselor is not a psychologist. Counselors are typically trained to administer a certain therapy or type of therapy. They typically do not have the same scientific training that psychologists do. Counselors with degrees in the area should, however, also be administering evidence based therapies. If you elect to hire the services of a counselor (or any medical professional for that matter), you should check their credentials and enquire about what sort of approaches they use (most will cite something like cognitive-behaviour therapy).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am currently studying psychology. Psychologists do not have to read Freud and the comparisons to Newton are inaccurate. Freud exists merely as a history note in most modern psychology courses Newton constructed theories that hold true (to a certain level of precision) under most situations whereas Freud made stuff up. Freud never really tested his ideas because few of them were really falsifiable. He could explain any outcome, often with the same theory. This was part of his appeal, and part of his failing as a scientist.</p>
<p>Anyway, as other have suggested, psychologist is a protected term in most countries. To call yourself a psychologist you typically need to complete 6 or more years of study (masters level) and most psychologists are registered with a professional organisation eg APA in USA.</p>
<p>Psychologists are typically (universally, I hope) required to be familiar with the scientific method, research methods and statistics. Psychologists are required to, where available, administer treatments with established reliability and validity. It is considered unethical not to.</p>
<p>A counselor is not a psychologist. Counselors are typically trained to administer a certain therapy or type of therapy. They typically do not have the same scientific training that psychologists do. Counselors with degrees in the area should, however, also be administering evidence based therapies. If you elect to hire the services of a counselor (or any medical professional for that matter), you should check their credentials and enquire about what sort of approaches they use (most will cite something like cognitive-behaviour therapy).</p>
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		<title>By: Pseudonym</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/02/21/can-you-avoid-religious-psychologists/#comment-274108</link>
		<dc:creator>Pseudonym</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 05:56:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=8909#comment-274108</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Don’t psychologists have to read Freud. He had some strong opinions on religion and psychology.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Yes, much like how physicists have to understand Newton even though he turned out to be completely wrong.

The dust hasn&#039;t entirely settled on this, but it turned out that Freudian psychoanalysis, which Freud believed would fill the important psychological roles that the religions of the past played, was just another quasi-religion in disguise.  In retrospect, that should have been obvious at the time.

It&#039;s the nature of pioneers that they are inevitably doomed to be wrong in some details.  But we still recognise them for what they achieved, and in that respect, Freud was one of the greats.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Don’t psychologists have to read Freud. He had some strong opinions on religion and psychology.</p></blockquote>
<p>Yes, much like how physicists have to understand Newton even though he turned out to be completely wrong.</p>
<p>The dust hasn&#8217;t entirely settled on this, but it turned out that Freudian psychoanalysis, which Freud believed would fill the important psychological roles that the religions of the past played, was just another quasi-religion in disguise.  In retrospect, that should have been obvious at the time.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s the nature of pioneers that they are inevitably doomed to be wrong in some details.  But we still recognise them for what they achieved, and in that respect, Freud was one of the greats.</p>
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