HOWEVER, quiverfull wives and mothers make up a very small percentage of the women affected by this movement. For every quiverfull mother, there are many quiverfull DAUGHTERS. It is these young women we need to be concerned about, and whose rights we need to protect. These daughters are raised in families that severely restrict their rights. In many cases, they are discouraged from choosing their own spouses (“courtship” requires the man to ask the father’s permission to marry his daughter and disallows the girl from making her own choice), and certainly have no practical freedom of religion. Girls are brainwashed into accepting the same lifestyles as their mothers, and severely punished socially if they reject their norms. For my own part, raised ina fundamentalist family, I found myself literally living on the streets with no survival skills when I decided to reject their lifestyle and religious choices by going to a secular college (incidentally, I also couldn’t continue going to college because they refused to sign off on my financial aid forms). If Quiverfull parents were encouraging their children to choose their own path, then I wouldn’t have a moral objection to their actions. But that’s not the case.

Feminists need to take a strong stand against this movement not to “save the women from themselves,” but to save the children from a system that is fundamentally abusive.

The movement is comprised of very loving families who, by and large, successfully raise their many children to become much more productive and responsible members of society than what the secular system is producing. I’ve already seen many children of QF families grow up and become happy, well adjusted citizens. My own dc (which stands for dear children) are well adjusted, college educated, QF adults now.

I personally know *many* QF families (in fact, one family of eight children has willed all eight to us, should their parents both die at the same time). None of them are on public assistance (although I know many atheist and agnostic people who are on the dole), and many adopt handicapped children, which is more than most of you are doing as I can see by your posts.

One of my friends and her dh (dear husband) decided to adopt after their two dc were adults (in their mid-twenties and on their own). They now have eight more children, all crack babies, all of whom have turned out healthy with the exception of one, who they have also loved and cared for – without public assistance.

Listen, I was raised, and was for many years, an atheist, and I am okay with that – but the level of ignorance and fear here toward *all* people of any religion is so – bigoted and unfathomable that it is truly sad and would cause me great embarrassment if I were still an atheist today. I am amazed that you don’t seem to know enough to actually *be* embarrassed over the things you are saying. Perhaps if you replace the word, “Christian” or “religious” (or whatever term you choose to group THEM in) with something like, “Gays” or “Blacks” you might be able to *hear* yourselves a bit better. Fear and bigotry are still fear and bigotry no matter what group it is held against.

I don’t have the time or interest to correct all the false notions about those who are QF that have been expressed here (mainly because so few of you have shown any intellectual curiosity at all, or even the ability, much less the desire, to objectively study the matter), but I can tell you that, sadly, many of you sound like a bunch of fearful old biddies running around saying the sky is falling.

And from this vantage point, the vast majority of you sound pretty silly.

Do you realize that?

I feel that you are setting up strawmen here. No one is advocating that Quiverfull be outlawed or their children taken away. (You’ll notice, however, that fundamentalists are eager to pass laws restricting gays’ rights to parent and all of us from using birth control). Expressing concern over how people are treated is thankfully allowed in a free society. I also have a right to judge the Taliban’s treatment of women and children – I don’t have to accept it as morally just because they think differently. Some issues of personhood and freedom are universal even within the context of cultural relativism.

What you are reffering to seems to be a little bit farther. A little too Animal Farm for my preference.

So fundies are justified when they are concerned about a gay couple raising a child? So now it’s our position to worry about how every family unit is raising its children and if we agree with the method or not? If it’s not physically abusive, if it’s not emotionally abusive

But I believe that it may well BE emotionally abusive, not only to the children but to the wife. And yes, it does behoove us to be concerned about how every family is raising their children, because those children are members of our communities and our society. Not to the point of automatically taking them away, or passing laws against it as the fundies want to do to gay couples, but to the extent of making sure that children are not abused or neglected. That is everyone’s business.

And because the creation of human society involves treating strangers as though they are family, at least to a certain extent. So, if all men are brothers and all women are sisters, those kids being raised by these loons are my nephews and nieces, and I’m concerned, ok?

So fundies are justified when they are concerned about a gay couple raising a child? So now it’s our position to worry about how every family unit is raising its children and if we agree with the method or not?

If it’s not physically abusive, if it’s not emotionally abusive, if it’s simply not our preference or within our understanding or what we feel is best for someone, is it really society’s business?

Athiest means the belief that no deity exists. “Without god”. It doesn’t have to mean, “Against anyone who thinks otherwise”.

I can reject their belief for myself while still supporting their right to exercise theirs.

I just don’t get all the negativity.

Because women and children are not property, and this movement comes perilously close (or possibly over the line) to treating them as such.

And because the creation of human society involves treating strangers as though they are family, at least to a certain extent. So, if all men are brothers and all women are sisters, those kids being raised by these loons are my nephews and nieces, and I’m concerned, ok?