Indiana Bus Company Rejects Atheist Ad

Here’s the ad that atheists in Indiana wanted to put on buses:

goodgod

I think it’s very uplifting. It says that morals are not synonymous with religious faith. It invites those who agree to check out the website.

The bus campaign folks submitted the proposed ad to Crosstown Communications (an advertising group) who forwarded the proposal to Bloomington Transit.

Bloomington Transit rejected it.

They said it was “too controversial.”

Of course, that term is very vague. It’s likely this ad was rejected because it promoted atheism instead of Christianity.

Today, the ACLU of Indiana filed a lawsuit (PDF) on behalf of the Indiana Atheist Bus Campaign requesting that the court “declare that [the] defendant’s advertising policy is unconstitutional” and “requiring defendant to display [the] plaintiff’s advertisement once the regular fee is paid.”

One way you can help the group out is by donating funds so they can get this ad on as many buses as possible. The more people who hear this message, the better.

(Thanks to Sarah for the link!)

  • http://primesequence.blogspot.com/ PrimeNumbers

    Yes, most likely banned because of the bigoted opinions of the advertising group.

  • Brian C Posey

    I don’t like this either, but the ad people are right if by “too controversial” they mean that it will annoy the most (and likely loudest) people.

    They don’t have to have any bigoted opinions — just simply know the world they live in.

  • http://zeroanaphora.wordpress.com/ Abbie

    My question is:

    Why is it always bus ads?

    Why is that our advertising MO?

  • http://inatheistbus.org Sarah

    There are some other atheist ad campaigns. There have been billboards and railway ads up around the country.

    I think the atheist bus campaigns just got more attention for some reason. Probably because it happened to work in the UK, and so other people started to follow suit. But I think that’s why it seems like bus ads are the main advertising venue of atheists.

    What other ad venues are atheists missing out on? TV/radio? Newspapers and magazines? I don’t know, I haven’t thought about it much.

  • http://www.thoughts.com/bearville Jackpine Savage

    Abbie – because buses are typically owned by government entities or semi-governmental entities, and have to respect the right of all to advertise. Private enterprise could freely discriminate. We’ll win this challenge on the basis of that. Furthermore, LOTS of people see buses – it’s some of the very best exposure you can get.

  • http://axon.tel Alan Chamberlain

    Transit systems are usually public entities, rather than private enterprise.

    –Ax

  • Jonsi

    Abbie, it is not always bus ads. Sometimes it is billboard advertisements. Hemant and others have also covered billboard controversies in Philadelphia, Denver, and Texas [google atheist billboard] where the goals are (1) acknowledge that atheists exist and are normal, moral, and contributing citizens and (2) alert atheists of websites they can go to and learn about secular meetup groups.

    It’s a great advertising MO because someone purchasing The God Delusion probably has the knowledge to seek out a secular humanist or atheist group if they desire, but many people just do not know such groups exist and can’t be strategically targeted through websites or print media. Billboards or bus ads are highly public advertisements and can reach different demographics. They are arguably the best media to accomplish those two above goals. Copying other successful bus ads as part of a larger campaign is strategic marketing, as people may have heard of it in other cities and it increases visibility.

    I’d prefer the atheist equivalent of bud light girls handing out free key chains and necklaces, but bus ads aren’t a bad 2nd.

  • Nick

    I don’t really have a problem with this. Is the issue because the buses are public transportation?

  • Mathew Wilder

    What I want to know is why the fuck the ACLU is involved? Why does anyone think that anyone else has a right to a certain ad company’s services? Total weaksauce.

  • Abner Cadaver II

    Mathew: It’s not a private ad company, it’s public transit. They get government funds and have to abide by government rules.

  • http://hoverFrog.wordpress.com hoverFrog

    I find it more controversial that they rejected the advert than if they’d accepted it. A lawsuit will now go through the courts which will attract newspapers, bloggers, maybe even a tv crew, from all views on religion who will have something to say about it. This will acknowledge and advertise atheist views much more effectively than some posters on a bus ever could. Win or lose public awareness is raised. Even in the bus company decide to run the poster and back down this will generate column space.

    Thanks should go to Bloomington Transit for helping to inform people that atheists are not a silent minority.

  • http://primesequence.blogspot.com/ PrimeNumbers

    Exactly, the rejection causes more controversy. If they are a public bus service then indeed they need to take the advertisement as it is in no way illegal, and to not take it is to discriminate against atheists.

    The only reason such an ad would be blocked is bigotry.

  • http://www.thebeautifulkind.com The Beautiful Kind

    Too controversial? HA!!! Christianity is too controversial! I mean, crucification and human sacrifice is pretty raw dog!

    I’ve been meeting with Jehovah Witness people for the past few weeks. I mentioned this concept to them… they keep telling me people can come back to life and that the cure for cancer is in the bible. ?!?!

  • SarahH

    *facepalm*

    This is not controversial. It might upset some people, but if they stop and think about it, they should be grateful that people CAN be good without god! I mean, if atheists really were horrible, immoral people, the world wouldn’t be nearly so safe.

    It’s a lovely ad, and I hope it eventually makes it onto the buses, or at least onto some other advertising venue.

  • Reginald Selkirk

    That looks like an innocuous, uplifting message. Since a lawsuit is in the works, I presume they are collecting examples of religious ads which have been run on those buses.

  • http://thinkingforfree.blogspot.com Eamon Knight

    What I want to know is why the fuck the ACLU is involved? Why does anyone think that anyone else has a right to a certain ad company’s services? Total weaksauce.

    IANAL, but it seems to be a general principle of free speech statutes that advertisers cannot discriminate arbitrarily in what ads they accept and what they reject. Here in Ottawa, the transit company has accepted pro-religious ads in the past, so they had no basis to reject the “Probably No God” ads, other than obvious viewpoint discrimination. City council voted to overrule the initial rejection after the city’s lawyer informed them that they would almost certainly lose a Charter of Rights case.

    And yes, the publicity caused by the scuffle was better than ads themselves ;-) .

  • http://boomcoach.blogspot.com Boomcoach

    What is truly bizarre is that Bloomington is one of the most liberal parts of Indiana. I haven’t been there for a few years, but I cannot imagine much of anything that would be controversial enough for the people there to notice, much less get outraged about.

  • http://www.bottle-imp.com Daniel

    I’m not sure the ACLU suit will go anywhere.

    However! The bus company is out of their minds as this sort of controversy is the sort of bad publicity that is actually REALLY good publicity.

    I don’t think lawsuit is the right path on this one. It’s sort of hostile and divisive action that is better left for cases where the issue is more one sided. In this case, I don’t believe private venues should be required to give an audience to just anyone.

    I think upping the ante, however, is a good strategy. Dump more money into. Use the rejection to rally support on the internet and raise more funds. Make the bus company an offer high enough that they’d be stupid to refuse. If they do, take that giant sum of money and buy advertising elsewhere (billboards, etc).

    I mean, you can buy billboards in funny places too, like right next to churches, etc.

    I’m jus’ sayin’

  • http://www.bottle-imp.com Daniel

    On second thought, if we’re talking about public buses, I suppose a lawsuit could be feasible and warranted if it can be shown those buses have allowed religions ads.

  • MikeTheInfidel

    Yes, it’s definitely publicly-financed.
    The company is the Bloomington Public Transportation Corporation, which the City of Bloomington home page calls “a full-featured municipal transit corporation that provides bus services in Bloomington.” “Municipal”, of course, means that it’s government-owned.

    I’d say they’ve got a pretty good case.

  • http://evilburnee.co.uk PaulJ

    @Abbie:

    My question is:

    Why is it always bus ads?

    Why is that our advertising MO?

    Oh, come on. It’s our sacred tradition. ;-)

    On the controversy: Suppose an ad said “You can’t be good without God.” Would that be considered too controversial?

    I thought not.

  • Anonymous

    I don’t like this either, but the ad people are right if by “too controversial” they mean that it will annoy the most (and likely loudest) people.

    They don’t have to have any bigoted opinions — just simply know the world they live in.

    I’m inclined to agree. If I thought any particular message would cause people to vandalize my buses, or inundate my call center disrupting business, I would be inclined not to post that message, even if I agreed with it. Putting food on the table is more important than some intangible cause — and that’s why the “culture wars” are a recent phenonenon. A hundred years ago, no one could afford to worry about less than immediate matters. In this recession where money is tight everywhere, I think the culture wars is losing steam — as least until things pick up.

    At first I thought the atheist bus ads were pretty rad, but as more and more groups do them, they get kind of old. And that makes me wonder: What’s the point of these ads really, except to temporarily swell the memberships of certain local or national groups? And if that’s all the ads do, why is that important to anyone outside of those groups? I don’t ask rhetorically — I’m curious what you all think. Is there any larger benefit of the ads besides the temporary and local one? For example — do they really increase tolerance for atheists or turn more people into atheists, or are they just more bumper stickers writ large?

  • rg

    So, putting this ad on buses is controversial, so they don’t let them put it up… and forcing the removal of these ads in the link below would be equally controversial and are allowed to go up… so maybe we just need to do as christians do and try to be loud enough to make not allowing the atheist ad at least equally controversial?

    http://images.google.com/images?rlz=1C1GGLS_enUS291US303&sourceid=chrome&q=god%20billboard&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi

  • rg

    so don’t christians want atheists to at least be good without god? why are they against this message?

  • Diakonos

    What I find with most Atheist’s is their total lack of understanding of the Christian belief system. If you want to be critical of something should you not first know it and have some intelligent argument? Being good doesn’t get you into heaven believing that Christ suffered for you and was resurrected gets you into heaven. Being good determines your reward in heaven. This concept of being good and ascending is the same in all other belief systems. Just what are you being critical of.

    - A God that gives us free will and there for bad things happen because we make mistakes? Maybe you would like your free will removed and become slaves.

    - Of a God that offers you eternity for nothing more than believing in Him?

    - Of a God that would sacrifice Himself for you?

    Human sacrifice???? Don’t even know where that comes from. The Bible does not promote human sacrifice.

    One common statement amongst Atheists is that Christians are hypocrites, to this I would say show me a human that is not. Even Atheists are hypocrites, you say that you have no crutch such as religion, but the very fact that you believe in self determination is in itself a belief system. Its called Humanism.

    I have found that most Atheists believe that they are more intelligent that others that believe in God. Take it from someone with a 147 IQ, most people are only intelligent enough to be dangerous.
    Why is it that scientists that start out as Atheists and end believing in a higher power? Because they become more intelligent as the years progress, think about it.

    Diakonos

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  • Matt

    Diakonos, here’s a simple question for you. What evidence do you have that there is a god?

    I don’t believe that there ever was a Jesus in the way you think he existed. Miracles and resurrection is just a bunch of mumbo jumbo. There is no magic out there. You live and you die. That’s it. If you find a purpose in life that’s good for you, but other than that there isn’t anything. There’s no heaven.

    People aren’t anything special. They’re just primates that happened to have gotten a little smarter than their cousins. or in your words… “people are only intelligent enough to be dangerous.” That is what is wrong with religion. It makes people dangerous.

    Being a Christian doesn’t determine whether you are a good or bad person. Being a person determines if you are a good or bad person.

    Start thinking, you might get something more out of life than your Christian spoon fed trash.

  • Matt

    I can’t believe my comment got deleted. You have ignorant chumps writing on this blog, then I get deleted for voicing my opinion. I wasn’t even offensive. Get some balls.

  • Richard Wade

    I don’t know if this is even worth it since Diakonos commented three days ago, but it needs to be said:

    Diakonos,
    Your comment is a meandering tirade that expresses several of your own misconceptions and lack of understanding of a variety of things. It would be better for you to focus on one issue, such as the topic of this thread, which is the atheist bus ad in Bloomington, Indiana. To help you do that, I’ll respond only to your misconceptions about that. You said:

    Being good doesn’t get you into heaven believing that Christ suffered for you and was resurrected gets you into heaven. Being good determines your reward in heaven. This concept of being good and ascending is the same in all other belief systems. Just what are you being critical of.

    The bus ad does not criticize anything. It says that you can be good without God. It does not say you can get into heaven by being good. It says you can be good without God. It does not say you can or cannot get into heaven by believing in God. It says you can be good without God. To make it crystal clear for you, the ad means that you can behave in a good, moral manner right here on Earth without believing in any gods. That’s all it says, that’s all it means. It is not saying anything about heaven. That part is your projection.

    Atheists don’t believe in gods and they don’t believe in heaven. They are told by many Christians surrounding them that they cannot be good without believing in the Christian God, so therefore they must be bad people. But by living good, moral lives every day, those atheists are living proof that those Christians are wrong about that. This has not caused those Christians to stop calling atheists bad people because those Christians don’t pay much attention to the actual world around them if it does not agree with their prejudice. They want to believe in their god and they also want to believe in their slanderous bigotry, and they have those things all mixed together. So the atheists are sick and tired of being slandered by these bigots and are fighting back by publicly asserting that they are good people because of the way they choose to behave every day, and they are doing it without belief in any gods.

    Diakonos, I’m glad that your IQ is 147. However, a high IQ does not necessarily mean that a person is organized in his thinking. Try to organize your thoughts into clear, focused statements, one issue at a time. ASK atheists what they think, feel and do, rather than tell them what they think feel and do. Then people can discuss things with you in organized and respectful ways, and both you and they will gain understanding.

  • Diakonos

    First let me say that over education is a determent to your understanding of life, its a fallacy that conditions you to ignore what your senses tell you.
    There is not enough space for a tirade here, however my belief in GOD is from my own personal search and experiences. I understand that this is purely subjective and cannot show you evidence, however your lack of openness in life is what holds Atheists back. As with Richard Wade the over educated ( and that is what you predominantly find in Atheist movement) respond in 2 ways anger and name calling or as Richard Wade when all else fails criticize unimportant characteristics or aspects of the individual. (angry and hateful to say the least) I find this far more harmful to society than a worship of GOD.

    Matt:

    I “know” there is more to this life, your close mindedness will stop you from ever seeing it. Look at it this way, by your thinking life is meaningless and then you die, so what harm is there is believing in God? If there is a God then your way ahead of the game when you die, if there is no God then you have lost nothing. Why lock a door that might be a winner.

    Believing in God is like believing in the ocean, whether you believe in the ocean or not it still exists and will have an impact on the world one way or another.

    The experiences I have had allowed me to see what some cannot, but you will never have that opportunity if you close that door. The problem is that you will not believe unless you have an experience and you will not have an experience unless you open that door.

    I don’t like everything that Christianity has turned into, what was meant to be pure has been corrupted to some degree by the mistakes of man, there are a lot of errors in thinking that have crept in. This however does not make God invalid. Christians are only people certainly no better than you and many of us are maybe not as good as some of you.
    Christians are not perfect, I am not perfect and never will be on this earth, I will make mistakes and inadvertently hurt peoples feelings.

    Can you say any different?

    Diakonos

  • Richard Wade

    Diakonos,

    As with Richard Wade the over educated ( and that is what you predominantly find in Atheist movement) respond in 2 ways anger and name calling or as Richard Wade when all else fails criticize unimportant characteristics or aspects of the individual. (angry and hateful to say the least) I find this far more harmful to society than a worship of GOD.

    I have not criticized anything about you, I have only disagreed with your remarks and I have suggested how you could have a more effective dialogue with us by sticking to a single topic and by asking respectful questions instead of acting as if you know others’ minds better than they know themselves. I have not made “angry and hateful” criticisms about unimportant characteristics or aspects of you. Please show me, word-for-word what I have actually written that is such an attack on you. I respond only to what you actually write, not some extra meaning that I conjure up in my imagination. You, however continue to add your own elaborate misinterpretations to what others have said, and you assume that your assessments about the motives and feelings of others are as clear and correct as if they were written down by them.

    Apparently, the special insight that you claim to have, and that my “over education” has deprived me of, includes mind reading. You continue to make statements about the thoughts, feelings and motives of others whom you have never met and about whom you know nothing. You do not know me, you do not know my story, you do not know my history, you do not know where my searching has taken me, you do not know how “open” or “closed” I am, yet you arrogantly and ridiculously pretend to be able to describe my innermost mind.

    Diakonos, you are not psychic. Stop pretending that you know others’ minds. Your repeated negative generalizations about atheists amount to bigotry. Your very first statement on this thread was to complain about people criticizing Christianity without knowing what they are talking about. Don’t do the very same thing by assuming you know all about us. You don’t know us because you talk about us instead of talking with us.

    My first response to you was a sincere and respectful attempt to help you have a more positive dialogue here. Your response to that was to continue to do the things that I had tried to point out that don’t work for you. I can see that further attempts are futile, so I will leave you with a restatement of the two suggestions that I think you will find most useful, if you are willing to try them:

    Respond to what people actually say and write, not to whatever extra meaning you decide they have said. If you think they are implying something, ASK about it: “By saying this… do you mean this…?”

    Respectfully ASK people about themselves, don’t pretend that you know them. You don’t know them until you talk with them openly and respectfully for a long time.

  • Diakonos

    I see that Christians don’t have the market cornered on self righteousness, or rationalization. You don’t have to be psychic to extrapolate from your words. As far as asking about ones feelings, I have read your forums and many others, enough to see where atheists are coming from. You don’t have to be psychic to read a road map, nor to interpret ones feelings from their own words. As like most over educated people you want attention,

    “Respectfully ASK people about themselves, don’t pretend that you know them. You don’t know them until you talk with them openly and respectfully for a long time.”

    figuring if you are able to smooth talk enough you will convince people that you are not angry, hateful, or maybe just hurt. Words don’t convince me actions do and to date the actions and words of the atheists is nothing more than hate speech. You claim your against all organized religion and yet only campaign against Christians. Christians are no threat to you. What so you fear. A Christian has never stoned a women in the streets for wearing makeup, nor has a Christian said that if you don’t accept our faith you are worthless or worse. This is only made up in your minds to justify the “hate speech” that you continue in.
    This is no better than the racial hate groups, everyone in these groups justify why they do what they do, and always have a very honorable reason for their actions(hatred). I don’t know your reasons for your hatred, maybe you were hurt once, well get over it, its a tough world. You like to talk, and like words thinking they are your power. You talk of negative generalizations, yet that is exactly what you do of Christians. Why is it that the over educated always accuse others of exactly what they are thinking or doing? Is it a attempt to redirect? As I have said words mean little to me, actions mean more and the actions of atheists in their hate campaign speaks volumes. Christians approach you because believe it or not we care about what happens to you, if you decide to take that as a negative then you have deep issues and I am sorry for that but do not redirect your feelings into something negative.

    Just for the record I see that you never addressed anything that I brought up but only criticized in arrogance while saying that you are not criticizing. And yet Christians are accused of double speak. You talked in circles avoiding the real issues.

    As far as your advice I will take it for what it’s worth.

    Diakonos

  • Richard Wade

    Diakonos,
    You have convinced me. You are absolutely right. Without a doubt, it is a complete and utter waste of your time to be talking with anybody here. I am sorry that I have wasted your time by pestering you, trying to talk to you as a person to a person, all the while not realizing that you have much more important all-encompassing things to say about atheists in general. A person with your scope of vision should not have to bother with anything so trivial as a single individual who wants to exchange silly little things like understanding. All you will get here on this blog is specific people wanting to talk to specific people about specific issues, and you have far larger, more global things to express about a whole category of people en masse. Your broad knowledge and understanding of atheists will just not be appreciated here. It wouldn’t be right for you to waste your breath on the likes of us. We’re just too individualistic for someone like yourself who grasps such a wide, overall view of us. I hope that you can find a venue somewhere else where your thoughts are well received by people who both understand you and agree with you.

  • Diakonos

    Lol

    There are better ways to live your life than angry. Lots of words but again saying nothing but anger.
    Your life would become a better place if you let it go. You live your life like you have it all together, you paint a perfect picture, unfortunately its a forgery. If Christians are so beneath you why do you expend so much energy on them? Your cause is not exactly honorable.

    I guess I have been dismissed, like all over educated people if you can’t sell them snake oil then kick them out, you don’t like losing so you avoid the possibility. As fresh as you think you are, you are only a copy of millions who have gone before you.

    Diakonos

    P.S. If you ever decide to have a honest conversation I would be willing. God doesn’t close doors He opens them, And He’s looking at you Richard.

  • seathanaich

    Diakonos wrote:

    “Why is it that scientists that start out as [a]theists and end believing in a higher power? Because they become more intelligent as the years progress, think about it.”

    What a pathetically laughable reversal of reality. Exposure to scientific method kills religious belief, which is why the religious fight science, and why 93% of both Nobel Prize winning scientists, and members of the Nat Acad of Sciences are atheists. I can never tell if people making retarded claims like this one are ignorant or dishonest, though religious belief does require both (plus delusion). You can always spot an argument that has no merit – it’s the one where people are forced to try to trade places with what they are arguing against, because their own position is wrong. The religious trying to appropriate the high ground of intelligence and reason is just Orwellian double-speak.

    As anybody capable of studying the subject of atheism knows, it increases with intelligence and education. So many studies have proven this that it is now irrefutable. And don’t capitalise “atheist”, it’s not a proper noun.

  • Diakonos

    I stand by my statement, I believe you are not looking at the age of the scientists. I by no means said all scientists. But if even only a few respected scientists change then all atheists by their own beliefs would have to question their stance. Unless of course atheism is driven by hatred. Hatred is irrational and realty doesn’t enter into the individuals thoughts. If you are going to contradict me at least try to sound intelligent. Here is one of many men that was once a scientist and professor at a major university who now at a later age finds more proof of a God then of no God.
    Read about him, unless you know your argument has no merit. Seathanaich you as others here show hatred, name calling and belittling, are the sign of low intelligence not the intellectual face the atheists are trying to put forward. the more you talk the more you prove me right.

    At least you know Orwell you should take a lesson from 1984. He was closer than you know.

    Diakonos

  • Diakonos

    The link didn’t show up here it is

    http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/Understand_the_Times/archives.asp

    Diakonos

  • Diakonos

    No more comments? Good, now lets see what we have learned.

    “Being good without God”, is a slogan atheists are using to attack Christians. Lets look at how loving and good you are.

    Richard Wade

    “Your comment is a meandering tirade”

    Refuse to address most of what I wrote and only criticized my writing. Condescending, arrogant, and uniformed.

    “To help you do that”

    Now Richard wants to be helpful. LOL, again in a condescending, controlling and arrogant way.

    “Diakonos, I’m glad that your IQ is 147. However, a high IQ does not necessarily mean that a person is organized in his thinking. Try to organize your thoughts into clear, focused statements,”

    More critical analysis from a over educated know it all, designed to control the conversation.

    “I have not criticized anything about you”

    Now lying and denying what he just wrote.

    “I have not made “angry and hateful” criticisms”

    More denial.

    “includes mind reading”

    A psychologists attempt at labeling in order to pigeon hole and belittle, in order to demoralize and bring the individual into submission.

    Then he ends with a patronizing tirade too long to quote, that is full of underlying anger and hatred. Both of which are covering the fear and hatred within Richard.

    matt

    “I can’t believe my comment got deleted. You have ignorant chumps writing on this blog, then I get deleted for voicing my opinion. I wasn’t even offensive. Get some balls.”

    Hidden, or maybe not so hidden anger and aggression stemming from fear? The post that was deleted was probably more telling of the individual.

    seathanaich

    “What a pathetically laughable reversal of reality”

    Criticism in a mocking tone designed to lower the individual. Typical attempt at a bullying tactic.

    “making retarded claims like this one are ignorant or dishonest, though religious belief does require both (plus delusion)”

    More labeling and indirect name calling

    “And don’t capitalize “atheist”, it’s not a proper noun.”

    More Criticism, and to set the record straight, the word atheist is both a common noun and proper noun depending how it is used.

    An admittedly small example of the “Good” the atheists show.

    Good people are not:

    Critical
    aggressive
    arrogant
    condescending
    intellectual bullies

    They do not:

    spout off before they think
    bully
    attack
    demoralize
    bring others into submission
    raise themselves to a delusional level

    The list goes on, by the way the guidelines are in the bible if you care to read them. Probably not, none the less your slogan….. hmmmm. Maybe you should rethink that since you (athesists) don’t seem to pull it off.

    Diakonos

  • Diakonos

    Better correct my typo “(atheist)”

  • http://www.myspace.com/celtix1234 Barbara

    While you’re at it, Diakonos, why don’t you go back through all of your inane diatribes and correct ALL your typos. For such a high IQ, I can’t believe you would use “your”, when you should have used “you’re”. And there are MANY other “typos” in your writing. I say “typos”, because that indicates a simple mistake – a finger hit a key it shouldn’t have. Some of your “typos”, however, indicate ignorance. It’s as if, for having such a high IQ, you lack the education needed to be mechanically correct in your writing. Hmmmm……one might start to think that you have some sort of inferiority complex due to YOUR lack of education, which prompts you to put down those who ARE educated (or “over educated”, as you like to say). Which online IQ test did you take, anyway? The one that rewards a high score by saying, “Your smarter than most!”? Did you print and frame the little certificate to prove your intellectual superiority? Pssst – your lack of reasoning skills, along with your so-so writing skills, is giving away your dirty little secret. Sorry fellow atheists, I just couldn’t take it anymore. I had to say something a little mean. True, but mean.

    -Barbara

  • Diakonos

    Very good, do you feel better, I may ignore my grammar but your anger and pettiness seems to be well thought out. I hope that you are not a mature adult that represents the atheist movement, if you are then Christians have nothing to fear you will fade into history as a funny side note.
    My grammar is unimportant to me and exposes the intellectual bullies. At least the bullies that picked on you in grade school grew up, you carry your hatred or fear with you the rest of you life again proving my point. Showing that the atheists can only attack on a level of grammar shows the weak position that you hold. You may be book smart but real world skills are badly lacking.
    I never went to university, by the time of exiting high school I was already well aware of the worship of intellectuality and wanted nothing to due with it. I did go to trade school and completed a 3 year course of industrial electronics which involved mathematics not grammar. Real world skills. In the real world grammar takes a back seat in talking to people and after 53 years I have certainly let it slide. Grammar is only important in the intellectual circles where those involved have nothing else in their lives except hate and a self expressed intellectual superiority. I have always found intellectual bullies funny, for all they stand for they commit the same crimes against their brother as the physical bullies, but hide behind superiority and pacifism. An attack is an attack. You could derive a inferiority complex, or maybe you should consider a complete disdain for the worship that you obviously take part in.
    However thank you for responding and I am actually surprised that it took this long for you to come forward. Grammar police generally respond quickly. Your response however does nothing for you cause, maybe even makes people think less of you. I know I do.

    Diakonos

  • Diakonos

    I would like to say that Richard gains a little more respect in my eyes for overlooking the obvious grammar mistakes, they weren’t hard to find. I really expected him to take the low road but he didn’t. For what little it’s worth Richard took the high road coming from the real world I respect that much

    Diakonos

  • Diakonos

    I should also say going over the last 2 posts I count 8 grammar and at least 17 punctuation mistakes, show me your maturity and highlight them for me.

    Due instead of do, come on you have to find that funny. LOL

    Diakonos

  • http://www.myspace.com/celtix1234 Barbara

    When a person feels it necessary to announce their IQ, they are leaving themselves open to critique. And when they don’t listen to reason, when it’s impossible to have an honest discourse with them, when they constantly put down those with education, then one can easily become irritated with them.

    I am pretty sure that if you were to actually have a conversation with an atheist, you would find that a good many of us are quite familiar with the Bible, oftentimes, more familiar than those who profess to be Christians. Many of us were Christian at one time, myself included. So as much as I’d like to counter some of your accusations with items straight from the Bible, I can tell by your previous posts that you will not be open to such conversations.

    Maybe, rather than spout off about your high IQ right off the bat, it would prove more gracious of you to allow your intellect to be shown through your ability to listen to others perspectives. Like my father used to always say, better to remain silent and let others think you’re an idiot, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

    -Barbara

  • Diakonos

    You know, when I came to this discussion I thought that the non starter atheists had finally got it together enough to make an impact. I was wrong, you people can’t see past yourselves or your past to ever mount a descent attack. My spouting about my IQ gave you an opening and you didn’t disappoint me. Look at the posts, never once has any of you actually brought up an issue. Hatred, anger, criticism, and so on, nothing ever on topic. I don’t believe any of you know a thing about the bible. You people will never get it together, you are a product of the educational system and will never break out of the self pity and dogma that you have be conditioned to believe in.
    Barbara your words are empty, it’s like the bully who runs away saying I’m going to get you. I would laugh at you but really you are quite sad. Resorting to name calling, come on are you 2 years old? Even after I point out your self destructive line of discussion and that your losing ground, you are not self controlled enough to stop. Your father was right but you should of listened to him instead of pointing fingers, obviously he was talking to you and I am not surprised. I bet it would of saved you some pain more than once. Barbara you are the worst of them, have you no self control? Are you so wrapped in your superiority that you will continue down a dead end. You speak of; if you had a conversation, if you did this or if you did that, where are you going with that? Come on seriously, can you really think that you even know whats right or wrong. Not according to this page, you can’t even conduct yourself properly when given a chance to confront a Christian. You waste your time insulting his writing. LOL Really?
    Like most over educated people they stick of a single minor point and beat it to death regardless if it’s on topic or not.
    You will never see how ineffective and predictable you are and therefore never make a difference in the world. I think the answer is clear, unless you call your conduct here good,(and sadly you might) NO you CAN’T be good without GOD!

    “So as much as I’d like to counter some of your accusations with items straight from the Bible, I can tell by your previous posts that you will not be open to such conversations.”

    That would be refreshing Barbara but I don’t think you know enough of the word of God to ever carry on an “intelligent” conversation. If you did you would of. You are afraid so you wrap yourself in your delusions and sit there criticizing anyone that is actually doing something. Barbra you are completely out of touch with reality, get some help. You will never find happiness until you come to terms with whatever it is that is holding you back.

    “it would prove more gracious of you to allow your intellect to be shown through your ability to listen to others perspectives”

    Always the need to be heard, what makes you think that your opinion is worth being heard, get over yourself. You are not that important that you need to be heard. If you have something intelligent to say people will listen but your ranting and attacking is unproductive to say the least. I don’t think anyone has to listen to me but you keep coming back, like a dog with a bone you just can’t let it go. Again get over yourself, you might just find your life more tolerable. Your father should of told you if can’t say something nice then don’t say anything at all.
    LOL “being good without God” too funny people, you are your own worst enemy no one needs to stop your campaign, because no one will ever listen to you.

    Diakonos

  • Tiberius

    Diakonos,

    With all due respect – ok, we’ve heard your opinion, we’ve seen how little you think of us, and we’ve suffered every stone you could think of to throw. Now, please – in the name of simply moving on, will you stop badgering the people in this post. You’ve stated you’re a devout Christian – fair enough: you’ve had your say, now please stop being disruptive in a thread where you have no interest or peer group. If you must have the last word, I’ll gladly give it to you, if it will bring a ceasefire to this ridiculous and counterproductive dialogue; however, please try to be respectful and polite in doing so – it would certainly make a good showing for the convictions you say you hold.

    If you’re in a particularly good mood, I think it would be an incredibly mature (and Christian) gesture to apologize to those you’ve abused, even though you feel they’ve abused you in turn. I think you know where I’m going with that.

    Regards,

    Tiberius