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	<title>Comments on: Who Should Tone Down the Rhetoric?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/05/07/who-should-tone-down-the-rhetoric/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/05/07/who-should-tone-down-the-rhetoric/</link>
	<description>by Hemant Mehta</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 28 May 2012 05:26:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: DeafAtheist</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/05/07/who-should-tone-down-the-rhetoric/#comment-319667</link>
		<dc:creator>DeafAtheist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 15:25:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=11301#comment-319667</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t agree with toning down the rhetoric. You have to be loud or you&#039;ll just be ignored. I don&#039;t think the civil rights movement, or the women&#039;s equality movement, or the LGBT movement would have gain the ground it has by toning down the rhetoric. 

I don&#039;t know how absurd the notion of this country moving towards a theocracy really is. Perhaps not with Obama in office, but with Bush in office the past 8 years this country was the closest it&#039;s been to a theocracy in history. You can even randomly ask any Christian whether or not he or she believes that the US was founded as a Christian nation and 9 out of 10 will say it is. 

Without atheist bus campaigns, or the exhaustive work of groups like the FFRF fighting on the front lines for civil liberties we should all be equally entitled to the movement wouldn&#039;t be more than a whisper. 

Even today most Christians probably don&#039;t even personally know an atheist and regardless of whether they do or not they have common misconceptions about atheism. 

Sometimes you just need a pair of spurs to get your horse to move or else you&#039;re not going to get anywhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t agree with toning down the rhetoric. You have to be loud or you&#8217;ll just be ignored. I don&#8217;t think the civil rights movement, or the women&#8217;s equality movement, or the LGBT movement would have gain the ground it has by toning down the rhetoric. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know how absurd the notion of this country moving towards a theocracy really is. Perhaps not with Obama in office, but with Bush in office the past 8 years this country was the closest it&#8217;s been to a theocracy in history. You can even randomly ask any Christian whether or not he or she believes that the US was founded as a Christian nation and 9 out of 10 will say it is. </p>
<p>Without atheist bus campaigns, or the exhaustive work of groups like the FFRF fighting on the front lines for civil liberties we should all be equally entitled to the movement wouldn&#8217;t be more than a whisper. </p>
<p>Even today most Christians probably don&#8217;t even personally know an atheist and regardless of whether they do or not they have common misconceptions about atheism. </p>
<p>Sometimes you just need a pair of spurs to get your horse to move or else you&#8217;re not going to get anywhere.</p>
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		<title>By: vjack</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/05/07/who-should-tone-down-the-rhetoric/#comment-307933</link>
		<dc:creator>vjack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 May 2009 14:13:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=11301#comment-307933</guid>
		<description>I agree that our focus should be on the religious extremists. I disagree, however, that toning down the rhetoric is in our best interests right now. I&#039;m not sure this would have worked for the women&#039;s movement or the gay rights movement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that our focus should be on the religious extremists. I disagree, however, that toning down the rhetoric is in our best interests right now. I&#8217;m not sure this would have worked for the women&#8217;s movement or the gay rights movement.</p>
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		<title>By: jamboh</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/05/07/who-should-tone-down-the-rhetoric/#comment-307617</link>
		<dc:creator>jamboh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 May 2009 10:46:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=11301#comment-307617</guid>
		<description>Pope warns of misuse of religion - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/8041421.stm

What next?
Paedophiles warn of the dangers of child molestation?
Landmine manufacturers warn of the dangers of explosives?

Unbelievable, sanctimonious hypocrisy!!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pope warns of misuse of religion &#8211; <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/8041421.stm" rel="nofollow">http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/8041421.stm</a></p>
<p>What next?<br />
Paedophiles warn of the dangers of child molestation?<br />
Landmine manufacturers warn of the dangers of explosives?</p>
<p>Unbelievable, sanctimonious hypocrisy!!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Seabhag</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/05/07/who-should-tone-down-the-rhetoric/#comment-307291</link>
		<dc:creator>Seabhag</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 16:32:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=11301#comment-307291</guid>
		<description>All that said.  Hermant, I really do appreciate the &#039;friendly atheist&#039; tack you take here.   Being in a place where I feel counstantly hounded by the ultra-conservatives it&#039;s nice to see someone who appreciates the evidence based view of the world, but who doesn&#039;t appear to constantly be under attack.   Its a glimmer of hope that maybe the rest of the world isn&#039;t as bad as it is here.   I move in July to the East Coast to work on my PhD so I hope to find out then.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All that said.  Hermant, I really do appreciate the &#8216;friendly atheist&#8217; tack you take here.   Being in a place where I feel counstantly hounded by the ultra-conservatives it&#8217;s nice to see someone who appreciates the evidence based view of the world, but who doesn&#8217;t appear to constantly be under attack.   Its a glimmer of hope that maybe the rest of the world isn&#8217;t as bad as it is here.   I move in July to the East Coast to work on my PhD so I hope to find out then.</p>
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		<title>By: Seabhag</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/05/07/who-should-tone-down-the-rhetoric/#comment-307287</link>
		<dc:creator>Seabhag</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 16:28:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=11301#comment-307287</guid>
		<description>Living in the &#039;heart of darkness&#039; as I do.  I can&#039;t honestly agree with you Hemant.  I&#039;m surrounded by family and people all over who would be quite happy to see a theocracy.  Who are willing to dismiss any science that disagrees with their pre-conceived ideas.   I&#039;ve even been told by my father that: I not only am not allowed to discuss problems I have with the Bible/Christianity with anyone else in the family, I&#039;m also not allowed to discuess any of the science behind an old universe because it is &#039;irrelivent&#039; and might lead my family to &#039;question&#039; YEC.   

For the record, I rent a detatched studio apartment on my parent&#039;s property while I finish up my masters in chemistry.  So I&#039;m with the family a lot.  

On one hand, I know in their deluded way my folks &#039;love&#039; me.   But, on the other hand, they hate my professional choice, my evidence-based view of the world.  In essence, everything that makes me, &#039;me&#039;.   Because it disagrees with their pre-conceived notions of how the world works.

I quite litterly live in a place where if the people around me had their way we&#039;d see gay marriage not only &quot;not&quot; be legal. It&#039;d be a crime.   Where abortion doctors would face the death penalty for providing abortions.  Pharmacists who sold birth-control pills for any reason (other than hormone imbalance) or Plan B pills would be jailed.   A place were scientific thought is assumed to be looking to disprove god.  

When your back is shoved as far back against the wall as mine is here.  I can&#039;t agree with any of the atheists or atheist groups who want to have &#039;work together with our religious allies&#039;.  In my experience we don&#039;t have any.  They are all part of the same delusion.  Sure some of them aren&#039;t as far down that slider.  But, when you take a step back and look at the entirty of &#039;faith&#039;; in my opinion the &#039;liberal&#039; Christians are no better than their zealot conservative counterparts who&#039;d send us back to the Dark Ages so they didn&#039;t have to be exposed to modern critical thinking and science.   In my opinion, it is a fight for survival when pushing back against people like my family and their friends.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Living in the &#8216;heart of darkness&#8217; as I do.  I can&#8217;t honestly agree with you Hemant.  I&#8217;m surrounded by family and people all over who would be quite happy to see a theocracy.  Who are willing to dismiss any science that disagrees with their pre-conceived ideas.   I&#8217;ve even been told by my father that: I not only am not allowed to discuss problems I have with the Bible/Christianity with anyone else in the family, I&#8217;m also not allowed to discuess any of the science behind an old universe because it is &#8216;irrelivent&#8217; and might lead my family to &#8216;question&#8217; YEC.   </p>
<p>For the record, I rent a detatched studio apartment on my parent&#8217;s property while I finish up my masters in chemistry.  So I&#8217;m with the family a lot.  </p>
<p>On one hand, I know in their deluded way my folks &#8216;love&#8217; me.   But, on the other hand, they hate my professional choice, my evidence-based view of the world.  In essence, everything that makes me, &#8216;me&#8217;.   Because it disagrees with their pre-conceived notions of how the world works.</p>
<p>I quite litterly live in a place where if the people around me had their way we&#8217;d see gay marriage not only &#8220;not&#8221; be legal. It&#8217;d be a crime.   Where abortion doctors would face the death penalty for providing abortions.  Pharmacists who sold birth-control pills for any reason (other than hormone imbalance) or Plan B pills would be jailed.   A place were scientific thought is assumed to be looking to disprove god.  </p>
<p>When your back is shoved as far back against the wall as mine is here.  I can&#8217;t agree with any of the atheists or atheist groups who want to have &#8216;work together with our religious allies&#8217;.  In my experience we don&#8217;t have any.  They are all part of the same delusion.  Sure some of them aren&#8217;t as far down that slider.  But, when you take a step back and look at the entirty of &#8216;faith&#8217;; in my opinion the &#8216;liberal&#8217; Christians are no better than their zealot conservative counterparts who&#8217;d send us back to the Dark Ages so they didn&#8217;t have to be exposed to modern critical thinking and science.   In my opinion, it is a fight for survival when pushing back against people like my family and their friends.</p>
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		<title>By: Ruby Leigh</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/05/07/who-should-tone-down-the-rhetoric/#comment-307263</link>
		<dc:creator>Ruby Leigh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 14:50:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=11301#comment-307263</guid>
		<description>Thanks for this post!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for this post!</p>
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		<title>By: writerdd</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/05/07/who-should-tone-down-the-rhetoric/#comment-307243</link>
		<dc:creator>writerdd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 13:26:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=11301#comment-307243</guid>
		<description>Yeh, my friends are pro-life and probably against gay marriage (we didn&#039;t discuss that topic-yet). On the surface we disagree on just about everything, but scratch through the facade and I discover that they actually agree with me on many things, even though they are self-proclaimed conservatives and I am self-proclaimed to be &quot;so liberal there is no political party for me in the US.&quot;

I think dialog is good particularly because people need to hear the other side of issues from sane sources. I don&#039;t want the only things my friends know about atheists and liberals to come from Fox News. And because I was a born-again Christian for many years, I know the information available on most atheist blogs and news sources is also skewed.

I recently got in touch with a lot of my old fundy friends. During my deconversion process and for a long time after that, I couldn&#039;t keep in touch. I needed a clean break. But now, after getting back in touch, I realize that I liked these people and they were my friends for a reason -- not just because we went to the same church or shared the same beliefs. 

In my recent discussions, I don&#039;t think I&#039;ve changed anyone&#039;s mind about anything and they certainly haven&#039;t changed my mind. (I&#039;m at the advantage though, because I used to be where they are and I understand their mindset and belief system.) But I hope that with more communication, I can break through the barriers of fear just a little bit and help them see that their current conservative political leanings are not truly reflections of their values.

I am really more concerned about people&#039;s politics than whether or not they believe in God.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeh, my friends are pro-life and probably against gay marriage (we didn&#8217;t discuss that topic-yet). On the surface we disagree on just about everything, but scratch through the facade and I discover that they actually agree with me on many things, even though they are self-proclaimed conservatives and I am self-proclaimed to be &#8220;so liberal there is no political party for me in the US.&#8221;</p>
<p>I think dialog is good particularly because people need to hear the other side of issues from sane sources. I don&#8217;t want the only things my friends know about atheists and liberals to come from Fox News. And because I was a born-again Christian for many years, I know the information available on most atheist blogs and news sources is also skewed.</p>
<p>I recently got in touch with a lot of my old fundy friends. During my deconversion process and for a long time after that, I couldn&#8217;t keep in touch. I needed a clean break. But now, after getting back in touch, I realize that I liked these people and they were my friends for a reason &#8212; not just because we went to the same church or shared the same beliefs. </p>
<p>In my recent discussions, I don&#8217;t think I&#8217;ve changed anyone&#8217;s mind about anything and they certainly haven&#8217;t changed my mind. (I&#8217;m at the advantage though, because I used to be where they are and I understand their mindset and belief system.) But I hope that with more communication, I can break through the barriers of fear just a little bit and help them see that their current conservative political leanings are not truly reflections of their values.</p>
<p>I am really more concerned about people&#8217;s politics than whether or not they believe in God.</p>
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		<title>By: James H</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/05/07/who-should-tone-down-the-rhetoric/#comment-307222</link>
		<dc:creator>James H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 12:42:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=11301#comment-307222</guid>
		<description>In addition to policy, I should point out that it&#039;s also possible to debate fundamentals.  A couple of times now, a friend and I have had quite interesting encounters exploring some basic permutations of the proofs of God&#039;s existence.  We approach from totally different ends (he&#039;s a Christian, I&#039;m atheist), but we&#039;re fairly civilized about the matter because we&#039;re more interested in turning over these proofs in our head and examining religion&#039;s role in society than we are in shouting down each other or in denigrating beliefs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In addition to policy, I should point out that it&#8217;s also possible to debate fundamentals.  A couple of times now, a friend and I have had quite interesting encounters exploring some basic permutations of the proofs of God&#8217;s existence.  We approach from totally different ends (he&#8217;s a Christian, I&#8217;m atheist), but we&#8217;re fairly civilized about the matter because we&#8217;re more interested in turning over these proofs in our head and examining religion&#8217;s role in society than we are in shouting down each other or in denigrating beliefs.</p>
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		<title>By: penguinsaur</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/05/07/who-should-tone-down-the-rhetoric/#comment-307212</link>
		<dc:creator>penguinsaur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 11:57:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=11301#comment-307212</guid>
		<description>&quot;The liberals (including most atheists) are terrorized by the idea that the religious right is going to make our country a theocracy and take all of our rights away &quot;

thats so absurd, now I&#039;m gonna go get fired from a job and never get married, but atleast its been a whole 6 years since they arrested people for being gay.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The liberals (including most atheists) are terrorized by the idea that the religious right is going to make our country a theocracy and take all of our rights away &#8221;</p>
<p>thats so absurd, now I&#8217;m gonna go get fired from a job and never get married, but atleast its been a whole 6 years since they arrested people for being gay.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Wade</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/05/07/who-should-tone-down-the-rhetoric/#comment-307140</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Wade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 06:30:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=11301#comment-307140</guid>
		<description>Thanks for this positive post. I sometimes get very discouraged by all the crazy stuff that the extremists do, like that jingoistic pack of lies, the Manual for American Jihad, a.k.a. the &lt;a href=&quot;http://friendlyatheist.com/2009/05/07/the-american-patriots-bible/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;American Patriot&#039;s Bible&lt;/a&gt;. I need to be reminded that they are the minority of Christians.

I very much want to be part of constructive, face to face discussions with our religious allies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for this positive post. I sometimes get very discouraged by all the crazy stuff that the extremists do, like that jingoistic pack of lies, the Manual for American Jihad, a.k.a. the <a href="http://friendlyatheist.com/2009/05/07/the-american-patriots-bible/" rel="nofollow">American Patriot&#8217;s Bible</a>. I need to be reminded that they are the minority of Christians.</p>
<p>I very much want to be part of constructive, face to face discussions with our religious allies.</p>
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