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	<title>Comments on: Billy Graham on the Rise of Atheism; He Gets It Wrong</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/06/30/billy-graham-on-the-rise-of-atheism-he-gets-it-wrong/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/06/30/billy-graham-on-the-rise-of-atheism-he-gets-it-wrong/</link>
	<description>by Hemant Mehta</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2012 17:48:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: skepticalsinner</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/06/30/billy-graham-on-the-rise-of-atheism-he-gets-it-wrong/#comment-367979</link>
		<dc:creator>skepticalsinner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 19:16:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=13125#comment-367979</guid>
		<description>Personally, I&#039;d consider it a pyrrhic victory if all the muslims and Xtians switched to Buddhism and Jainism.

Aside from the occasionally flower at the airport, they&#039;re a whole lot less offensive as a group.

However, in the long run, Mankind needs to kick away the crutch of religion in order to advance. When we realize that we are on each on a finite timeline, and all is not going to be magically fixed by the sky fairy we might start getting serious about some of this world&#039;s ills.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Personally, I&#8217;d consider it a pyrrhic victory if all the muslims and Xtians switched to Buddhism and Jainism.</p>
<p>Aside from the occasionally flower at the airport, they&#8217;re a whole lot less offensive as a group.</p>
<p>However, in the long run, Mankind needs to kick away the crutch of religion in order to advance. When we realize that we are on each on a finite timeline, and all is not going to be magically fixed by the sky fairy we might start getting serious about some of this world&#8217;s ills.</p>
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		<title>By: Grado</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/06/30/billy-graham-on-the-rise-of-atheism-he-gets-it-wrong/#comment-338445</link>
		<dc:creator>Grado</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 16:46:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=13125#comment-338445</guid>
		<description>Atheists comment mostly on Christians, Muslims, Jews because they make up the vast majority of religious folks in western societies...we dont comment much on other religions like hindus, buddists,shammanism, paganism, dead religions like greek, egyptian, roman gods because they dont really affect politics and have basically very little if any effect on modern society.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Atheists comment mostly on Christians, Muslims, Jews because they make up the vast majority of religious folks in western societies&#8230;we dont comment much on other religions like hindus, buddists,shammanism, paganism, dead religions like greek, egyptian, roman gods because they dont really affect politics and have basically very little if any effect on modern society.</p>
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		<title>By: articulett</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/06/30/billy-graham-on-the-rise-of-atheism-he-gets-it-wrong/#comment-324821</link>
		<dc:creator>articulett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 23:10:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=13125#comment-324821</guid>
		<description>I want to assure Jason that I disbelieve in all immaterial consciousness equally-- demons, gods, souls, Thetans, ghosts, sprites, etc.  I&#039;m against magical thinking of all kinds and I consider all religions myths and superstitions.  People tend to notice when their own sacred cow is being skewered and, in the past, some religions have been shielded from such scrutiny.  But this has slowed civilization, and it&#039;s time for believers to grow up and face facts:  faith is not a means of knowledge, and we atheists want the right to treat your religion the same way you treat all the religions you find wacky, harmful,&quot;woo-ish&quot;, or in conflict with yours --and for the same reasons.  

We want the same freedom of speech you&#039;ve taken for granted.  We are tired of being bullied into respecting your inane opinions which you label &quot;free speech&quot; while denigrate us and label our responses &quot;hate speech&quot;.  It&#039;s hypocritical, and an all-too-common characteristic of the faithful-- including those of faiths you find wacky (Scientology, perhaps?).  Why can&#039;t all theists be as private with their faith as they want Scientologists to be?  When will they stop demanding rights that they wouldn&#039;t want Scientologists to have?  Do unto others.  No one is forcing you to not believe whatever wacky thing it is you&#039;ve been indoctrinated and feel saved for &quot;believing in&quot;.  
  
To me, all religions are akin to Scientology-- though the ones that have been around longer are responsible for much more suffering and many more deaths, of course.

To exorcise the demons that inhabit peoples&#039; minds you may also have to exorcise their gods.  There&#039;s nothing to differentiate one from the other, after all.  They are all cut from the same imaginary fabric as the emperor&#039;s new clothes.  If we don&#039;t want a society where people imagine children possessed by demons, then we may just have to put their other imaginary friends on the chopping block too.  When you encourage faith as a means of knowledge you are indirectly encouraging whatever actions people believe that god is asking of them-- sometimes god apparently tells people to drive planes into buildings,or pray for their kids rather than giving them prayer, or beat them to exorcise demons, start wars, or kill abortion doctors.  I want no part of this insane ideology where people hear voices in their head and imagine them as messages from god since there is no way to distinguish any god from a schizophrenic delusion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I want to assure Jason that I disbelieve in all immaterial consciousness equally&#8211; demons, gods, souls, Thetans, ghosts, sprites, etc.  I&#8217;m against magical thinking of all kinds and I consider all religions myths and superstitions.  People tend to notice when their own sacred cow is being skewered and, in the past, some religions have been shielded from such scrutiny.  But this has slowed civilization, and it&#8217;s time for believers to grow up and face facts:  faith is not a means of knowledge, and we atheists want the right to treat your religion the same way you treat all the religions you find wacky, harmful,&#8221;woo-ish&#8221;, or in conflict with yours &#8211;and for the same reasons.  </p>
<p>We want the same freedom of speech you&#8217;ve taken for granted.  We are tired of being bullied into respecting your inane opinions which you label &#8220;free speech&#8221; while denigrate us and label our responses &#8220;hate speech&#8221;.  It&#8217;s hypocritical, and an all-too-common characteristic of the faithful&#8211; including those of faiths you find wacky (Scientology, perhaps?).  Why can&#8217;t all theists be as private with their faith as they want Scientologists to be?  When will they stop demanding rights that they wouldn&#8217;t want Scientologists to have?  Do unto others.  No one is forcing you to not believe whatever wacky thing it is you&#8217;ve been indoctrinated and feel saved for &#8220;believing in&#8221;.  </p>
<p>To me, all religions are akin to Scientology&#8211; though the ones that have been around longer are responsible for much more suffering and many more deaths, of course.</p>
<p>To exorcise the demons that inhabit peoples&#8217; minds you may also have to exorcise their gods.  There&#8217;s nothing to differentiate one from the other, after all.  They are all cut from the same imaginary fabric as the emperor&#8217;s new clothes.  If we don&#8217;t want a society where people imagine children possessed by demons, then we may just have to put their other imaginary friends on the chopping block too.  When you encourage faith as a means of knowledge you are indirectly encouraging whatever actions people believe that god is asking of them&#8211; sometimes god apparently tells people to drive planes into buildings,or pray for their kids rather than giving them prayer, or beat them to exorcise demons, start wars, or kill abortion doctors.  I want no part of this insane ideology where people hear voices in their head and imagine them as messages from god since there is no way to distinguish any god from a schizophrenic delusion.</p>
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		<title>By: Just Some Guy</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/06/30/billy-graham-on-the-rise-of-atheism-he-gets-it-wrong/#comment-324767</link>
		<dc:creator>Just Some Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 20:26:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=13125#comment-324767</guid>
		<description>Having arrived at atheism via having given other belief systems (BS) a see-looks, I&#039;ve noted that some Xtians really have no idea about Buddhism. They seem to Xtian-ify other BS to the point where they are under the delusion that, for example, Buddha is a drop-in replacement for Jeebus.

In my opinion, these Xtians need to pull their heads out of their Jeebus-centered mindset and stop trying to assume that every BS is a Xtianity-clone.

To clarify: I am not a Buddhist, in much the same way that I dislike canned tuna. It just p*sses me off if someone would be so clueless as to not understand that Buddhism is not Xtianity with a fat Jeebus, or if someone tries to tell me that canned tuna is a vegetable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having arrived at atheism via having given other belief systems (BS) a see-looks, I&#8217;ve noted that some Xtians really have no idea about Buddhism. They seem to Xtian-ify other BS to the point where they are under the delusion that, for example, Buddha is a drop-in replacement for Jeebus.</p>
<p>In my opinion, these Xtians need to pull their heads out of their Jeebus-centered mindset and stop trying to assume that every BS is a Xtianity-clone.</p>
<p>To clarify: I am not a Buddhist, in much the same way that I dislike canned tuna. It just p*sses me off if someone would be so clueless as to not understand that Buddhism is not Xtianity with a fat Jeebus, or if someone tries to tell me that canned tuna is a vegetable.</p>
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		<title>By: Citizen Z</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/06/30/billy-graham-on-the-rise-of-atheism-he-gets-it-wrong/#comment-324486</link>
		<dc:creator>Citizen Z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 23:19:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=13125#comment-324486</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I have yet to see atheists laugh at Buddhist monks, or burn a copy of the Tao Te Ching, or fiercely debate with a Jainist.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

That&#039;s funny, because I have yet to see atheists laugh at Catholic nuns*, or burn a copy of the Bible, or fail to poke holes in any religion&#039;s arguments for god.

*Criticize their belief system, or even the nuns themselves, sure. But never &quot;laugh at&quot; them like they were in a schoolyard, as you seem to imply.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I have yet to see atheists laugh at Buddhist monks, or burn a copy of the Tao Te Ching, or fiercely debate with a Jainist.</p></blockquote>
<p>That&#8217;s funny, because I have yet to see atheists laugh at Catholic nuns*, or burn a copy of the Bible, or fail to poke holes in any religion&#8217;s arguments for god.</p>
<p>*Criticize their belief system, or even the nuns themselves, sure. But never &#8220;laugh at&#8221; them like they were in a schoolyard, as you seem to imply.</p>
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		<title>By: Rest</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/06/30/billy-graham-on-the-rise-of-atheism-he-gets-it-wrong/#comment-324381</link>
		<dc:creator>Rest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 18:32:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=13125#comment-324381</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve never seen the appeal of America&#039;s Greatest Evangelist. His sermons, and one of his books I read, made me feel like he was trying to talk to a second grader. Actually, that&#039;s an insult to the intelligence of a second grader.

As for slap on bracelets:

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/4087/slapbracelets.gif</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve never seen the appeal of America&#8217;s Greatest Evangelist. His sermons, and one of his books I read, made me feel like he was trying to talk to a second grader. Actually, that&#8217;s an insult to the intelligence of a second grader.</p>
<p>As for slap on bracelets:</p>
<p><a href="http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/4087/slapbracelets.gif" rel="nofollow">http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/4087/slapbracelets.gif</a></p>
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		<title>By: ckitching</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/06/30/billy-graham-on-the-rise-of-atheism-he-gets-it-wrong/#comment-324369</link>
		<dc:creator>ckitching</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 17:41:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=13125#comment-324369</guid>
		<description>Jason, you should read Hitchen&#039;s book, God is not Great.  He dedicates a chapter to the false belief that the eastern religions are somehow noble and immune to the corruption plaguing western ones.

In regards to the Dalai Lama, he wrote:
&lt;blockquote&gt;[The Dalai Lama] makes the claim not just that Tibet should be independent of Chinese hegemony—a perfectly good demand, if I may render it into everyday English—but that he himself is a hereditary king appointed by heaven itself. How convenient! Dissenting sects within his faith are persecuted; his one-man rule in an Indian enclave is absolute; he makes absurd pronouncements about sex and diet [...]&lt;/blockquote&gt;
The reason you perceive so many atheists going after Christianity in particular, and Abrahamic religions in general, is that it&#039;s near to us, and familiar.  Most of the nutty religious behaviour that is going to frustrate us will come from those groups.  These other religious groups may deserve just as much criticism, but they do not have the power of majority over us, so their brand of nuttiness is less of a direct threat.  

To put this another way: Someone who proposes a law that says all school children should start their day with chanting and meditation would find that law almost immediately struck down.  Someone who proposes a law that says all school children should start their day reciting &quot;The Lord&#039;s Prayer&quot; and bible readings is not as easily discarded.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jason, you should read Hitchen&#8217;s book, God is not Great.  He dedicates a chapter to the false belief that the eastern religions are somehow noble and immune to the corruption plaguing western ones.</p>
<p>In regards to the Dalai Lama, he wrote:</p>
<blockquote><p>[The Dalai Lama] makes the claim not just that Tibet should be independent of Chinese hegemony—a perfectly good demand, if I may render it into everyday English—but that he himself is a hereditary king appointed by heaven itself. How convenient! Dissenting sects within his faith are persecuted; his one-man rule in an Indian enclave is absolute; he makes absurd pronouncements about sex and diet [...]</p></blockquote>
<p>The reason you perceive so many atheists going after Christianity in particular, and Abrahamic religions in general, is that it&#8217;s near to us, and familiar.  Most of the nutty religious behaviour that is going to frustrate us will come from those groups.  These other religious groups may deserve just as much criticism, but they do not have the power of majority over us, so their brand of nuttiness is less of a direct threat.  </p>
<p>To put this another way: Someone who proposes a law that says all school children should start their day with chanting and meditation would find that law almost immediately struck down.  Someone who proposes a law that says all school children should start their day reciting &#8220;The Lord&#8217;s Prayer&#8221; and bible readings is not as easily discarded.</p>
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		<title>By: ash</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/06/30/billy-graham-on-the-rise-of-atheism-he-gets-it-wrong/#comment-324356</link>
		<dc:creator>ash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 16:54:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=13125#comment-324356</guid>
		<description>Jason, I totally agree with Neon that &#039;atheistic fundamentalist&#039; is an oxymoron. I fully accept that you get nutters who happen to be atheist, but the difference is that theistic nutters are able to justify their insanity through their religion; an act or verbalization of aggression, bigotry or plain idiocy will be justified by theist fundies by &#039;the bible says...God told me...my priest thinks...&#039; etc. Like I said, an atheist may also be doolally, but they cannot hide it behind atheism. &#039;I am racist/sexist/homophobic&#039; etc. cannot be explained by a lack of belief in god/s, however hard some theists may wish it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jason, I totally agree with Neon that &#8216;atheistic fundamentalist&#8217; is an oxymoron. I fully accept that you get nutters who happen to be atheist, but the difference is that theistic nutters are able to justify their insanity through their religion; an act or verbalization of aggression, bigotry or plain idiocy will be justified by theist fundies by &#8216;the bible says&#8230;God told me&#8230;my priest thinks&#8230;&#8217; etc. Like I said, an atheist may also be doolally, but they cannot hide it behind atheism. &#8216;I am racist/sexist/homophobic&#8217; etc. cannot be explained by a lack of belief in god/s, however hard some theists may wish it.</p>
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		<title>By: Cafeeine</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/06/30/billy-graham-on-the-rise-of-atheism-he-gets-it-wrong/#comment-324352</link>
		<dc:creator>Cafeeine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 16:45:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=13125#comment-324352</guid>
		<description>Jason, all that&#039;s well and good, but by offering a platitude, you haven&#039;t addressed the fact that you haven&#039;t offered any evidence of atheist fundamentalism. 

Atheists are almost always sceptics, and a sceptic is the polar opposite of a fundamentalist. While people can be sceptical in general and dogmatic in particulars, you still need to show evidence before you lob these accusations. So far, all you&#039;ve shown is that you are frustrated that atheists don&#039;t attack other religions, but that is mainly due to the fact you haven&#039;t looked for these criticisms.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jason, all that&#8217;s well and good, but by offering a platitude, you haven&#8217;t addressed the fact that you haven&#8217;t offered any evidence of atheist fundamentalism. </p>
<p>Atheists are almost always sceptics, and a sceptic is the polar opposite of a fundamentalist. While people can be sceptical in general and dogmatic in particulars, you still need to show evidence before you lob these accusations. So far, all you&#8217;ve shown is that you are frustrated that atheists don&#8217;t attack other religions, but that is mainly due to the fact you haven&#8217;t looked for these criticisms.</p>
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		<title>By: ATL-Apostate</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/06/30/billy-graham-on-the-rise-of-atheism-he-gets-it-wrong/#comment-324350</link>
		<dc:creator>ATL-Apostate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 16:43:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=13125#comment-324350</guid>
		<description>Speaking of fads, don&#039;t forget the WWJD (what would jeebus do?) bracelets.
ugh.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking of fads, don&#8217;t forget the WWJD (what would jeebus do?) bracelets.<br />
ugh.</p>
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