How about a compromise, one that will let both father and mother express themselves and their worldview, without forcing it on the children. Prayer is often seen as a purely spiritual religious action, and many people find comfort in it. Taking this away from them, or not allowing them to pass this experience on to their children will just cause tension. Understanding that the comforting aspect of prayer is what is most important will help to find a solution to the issue.

Try offering this type of compromise. Choose a time, like the classic time before or after dinner, to have a moment of silent reflection. Thirty seconds of silence, and each member of family uses this time for their own thoughts or prayers. Then afterwards, maybe while eating, each person shares their thoughts – children included.

Since mom is a believer, she may share things like:

“I thanked god for this food”
“I asked god to watch over us”
“I prayed that god would watch over grandma when she’s in the hospital”
“I asked god to help you with your spelling test.”

Dad, since he is a unbeliever will have the opportunity to express thoughts like:

“I thought about how much I love your mother, how wonderful she is, how much joy she gives me.”
“I thought about how proud I am that you got an A on your math and spelling test – you studied so hard and your work paid off!”
“I thought about a problem I have with a coworker, and how I should change my approach to the way I interact with him…”
“I thought about what I can do to help your grandmother in the hospital, and how I can make this time easier for your mother.”

Dad has the opportunity to show a down-to-earth, factual view of life, expressing feelings that lift up the family as a whole. As the child grows, they will see the difference between dad’s practical humanistic approach, and mom’s more spiritual ideas.

It also offers an opportunity for teaching, talking about real issues, at the child’s level, allowing morality and ethics to be taught. Reading the bible and prayer were used this way in my family, and this time was used as a teaching time. The same thing applies here – minus bible.

It can also be interspersed with occasional humor – “I’m so hungry that I let my stomach do the thinking today, but it forgot to be silent!” Since the sacred is not required at this time, teaching is not the only option – it can have joy, fun, and bonding.

And don’t forget to let the children express their thoughts, without criticism or guidance beyond discussing the ideas like you do with your own.

Oh, and start doing it before you have kids. Make it normal now, so that when the baby is coming you don’t hit the emotional wall of prenatal stress. This is not something she is missing, but instead part of the shared values and practices of your unique family. She will feel more comfortable, instead of seeing the difference with her childhood, this practice will be a sign of the togetherness of her marriage, something she looks forward to sharing with the children.

I’m glad both of you are reading this thread, that’s definitely a good sign. I’m an Episcopalian, also went through the Ph.D., and I walked away from a few theist-atheist possible marriages in my time, to find the guy who meshes with me theologically as well as politically and academically (musical tastes are a bit more tricky, but you can’t have everything .

I wanted to marry some of the atheists, convinced that everything was perfect in our relationship *except* for the religious issue; but when I got serious about it, I couldn’t see pledging myself to someone who thought my beliefs were nonsense, any more than I could marry someone who wanted me to be a traditional subservient wife or wear a veil outdoors or who would think I was going to hell because I didn’t believe in transubstantiation of the bread and wine.

Only you two can answer the question of how important this difference is to the two of you, though. I’ve certainly seen other theist/atheist marriages work, and even raise kids, but both parents have to be kind of laidback about their sets of beliefs, and respectful of their spouse’s. Some couples develop something of a mutual cognitive dissonance about both sets of beliefs, but that’s over time.

In your particular question about prayer, though, given how many kids are raised saying prayers at night and then decide Jesus is on a level with Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy, I doubt your kids would be permanently warped one way or the other by praying. Or going to church, for that matter. Particularly if you stick to the Episcopalian/UCC/UU end of the spectrum.

But good luck to both of you making your decision, either way. I disagree that 29 is “young”, by the way. You know your own minds by now, though growth in depth and breadth are hopefully a life-long process.

That sounds like saying it’s “plunging” to me…

I stand corrected, I missed that comment.

There are two ticking clocks here. One is her biological clock: a woman’s fertility drops precipitously after 27.”

That sounds like saying it’s “plunging” to me…

I would also like to point out that there isn’t a ton of evidence for women’s fertility “plunging” after 27 or 30 or whatever. One of the major sources for that piece of conventional wisdom was a study done in France of women whose husbands were infertile and were trying to get pregnant with AI. Not exactly representative.

I don’t think anyone said that fertlity was “plunging” at any age. It would be very strange to base an interpretation on male fertility on a study involving infertile men, let alone female fertility.

There have been studies done in the US and Britain that were not connected to male infertility. They suggest that fertility starts to decline at around 30 that has been stated a number of times in this thread. Also the precentage of birth defects and miscarriages also rises. Maybe stillbirth and premature births as well.

IVF success rates also declines. If a woman hasn’t tried to get pregnant until 30 she may not know she has a problem until over a year later. Money may push back the age of when IVF attempts are made reducing the chance.

Good for you, and for her. Difficult conversations are, well, difficult for all involved. Being able to talk about this stuff dramatically increases your chances of figuring it out. I sincerely hope that things work out well for both of you.

As for Dan Barker’s experience, one can’t help but believe that the problem in the relationship was not so much that he was an atheist and she was a theist, but that he radically changed his beliefs after they got married. That’s entirely different from going into this knowing and discussing our differing views.

As for the recession, that’s not a factor. Postdocs are actually probably more abundant now because of stimulus money (in the US). That said, it is always crazy hard to find academic jobs regardless of the general economic situation.

RedSonja: I have shown her this letter. In fact, she’s read this thread (and might decide to comment).

I double Disbelieving’s girlfriend is going to end up as a creationist. First she isn’t one now (or it would have been mentioned), second she is highly educated, and third Episcopalians in the US generally aren’t creationists. Their current presiding bishop, Katharine Jefferts Schori, has said

“The vast preponderance of scientific evidence, including geology, paleontology, archaeology, genetics and natural history, indicates that Darwin was in large part correct in his original hypothesis.”
(She has a phd in oceanography from the University of Oregon and studied squid and octopuses [might be interesting to see what PZ and she would talk about])
http://www.thewitness.org/article.php?id=1034

Children are influenced by both their parents.

Personally, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with a spiritual life. As an atheist, I’d agree that you need to maintain grounding in reality. Children with both theist and atheist parents can arguably benefit from the best of both worlds; finding something enjoyable, useful, beneficial in a spiritual lifestyle, while knowing that it’s not strictly necessary for a productive life. Even if they are raised with the beliefs of the theist parent, when they come of age to choose for themselves, they will have the influence of the non-theist parent to rely on, so their options will not appear as limited. Likewise, if they are raised with the beliefs of the non-theist parent, they will have the influence of the theist parent to know that a spiritual life is available if they want it.

Not all things can be planned in advance. Sometimes you’ve got to just go with what feels right, and make some decisions on the ground when the time comes.

I have a different perspective from “Another Atheist” on one matter. They say religious differences are irreconcilable, but political ones are okay. Not true for me. I wouldn’t for an instant consider dating a conservative, because they would have an incompatible morality from my own (and to me, an abhorrent one). These are very practical differences about how things are done in the real world. At some level, religious differences are more airy metaphysics – why does one believe morality exists, etc.. Ethical (normative) differences I can’t deal with, meta-ethical differences I probably can.

Yes, I tend to agree with you, but I thew that in there because I have met many are couples who are very happy together despite their political incompatibilities. For instance, while canvassing during the last election, I ran into literally dozens of households where the woman supported Obama and the man supported McCain (never the other way around, interestingly enough).

In any case, I think it is possible to work around political differences because many people are willing to let their children make their own decisions about politics when they grow up. Meanwhile, they are not willing to grant the same latitude with respect to religious belief – they insist on indoctrinating the child at a young age. I think it is interesting that you wouldn’t consider dating a conservative, but you are agonizing over whether to stay with a theist. I am married to another atheist, but if I wasn’t, I would date a million conservatives before I even talked to a theist.