Denny’s Discount for Churchgoers Only

What would they do if you brought them a flyer from a Pastafarian church, or Wiccan, or Satanist?

I don’t think those groups are what they had in mind…..

They should be giving that sort of discount to people with university student/staff IDs.

This one just doesn’t seem worth going after. Restaurants have promotions all the time, sometimes focused on a separate part of their customer base. Think Mother’s Day or Father’s Day, or a free coupon if your birthday happens to be on the company’s founding day, or something like that.

Do they give discounts for people who come in with flyers from their synagogue? Or mosque? Or, as others here have suggested, the Church of Satan?

And I don’t agree that this is too small to make an issue out of. I wouldn’t make it the central issue of our movement; but small protesting things like this can get people to stop and think, and perhaps be more careful in the future. And if it gets publicity… then that gets even more people to stop and think, and perhaps be more careful in the future. The more we can get this stuff on people’s radar, the better… and sometimes that happens over small issues as well as large ones.

Churches serve much more purpose in a community than as peddlers of superstitious nonsense. They’re not just giving to religious institutions, they’re giving to community centers and theaters and music studios.

Actually I wouldn’t have an issue with this if they were only making the donation. Businesses have the right to choose which non-profits they give money to. However they do not have the right to discriminate against their customers by charging those who go to church less any more than they could charge white people less (something Denny’s has been sued for doing in the past, they have a history of this).

If they’d made it “Your local Church OR FAVOURITE CHARITABLE ORGANISATION” they wouldn’t have a problem. After all, most charities would fall under the same exempt status as churches, wouldn’t they? So it wouldn’t cost them anything to be inclusive.

WELL (if this goes to my state), at least there’s an opportunity to use all those mail-sent bulletins that my church still sends me.

I wish they’d have something for Bibles, though- I have at least 75 of them.

In my opinion, it is a bit discriminatory. Not for the donation, but for the discount for non-church going members. They should probably open it up to include not only churches, but any other thing similary. For example, mosques, synagogues, the local atheist meetup, etc.

They’re a private company, they can offer whatever promotions they want. As long as they don’t favour one “church” pamphlet over another, they’re not doing anything I care about. Like I said, they’re a privately owned company, whatever promotions they want to offer, they can do what they want. If they wanted a promotion where white folk get 50% off and black folk pay 50% more, I’d strongly disagree with it but would defend their right to do so.

If it were a government supported thing, like “bring a church pamphlet and get an extra vote!” or something, I’d be all over it. But a privately owned company can do whatever in my books.

I live in Georgia. In my relatively secular (for the deep south) town there is at least 10-20 restaurants offering the exact same thing every single Sunday.

I’ll occassionally go to a random church service with a friend, drink the free coffee, eat a little snack, grab a pamphlet and leave half way through the service. We then take these pamphlets and grab breakfast somewhere.

Oh the joys of being a broke college student.

I think it’s hilarious, actually. Denny’s turns the churches into willing marketing machines, giving them a little kickback. I can just see the pastor encouraging everyone to go to Denny’s after the service so that the church can pull in a little more money. Brilliantly cynical on Denny’s part!

Well, this isn’t too far from the actual North Texas Church of Freethought. Anyone in the area feel like a test case? I think making them donate copious amounts to NTCOF would just be made of win. Come on, it’s got the word “Church” right there in the name!

Oh, and yes, as a private company, they certainly have the right to offer this promotion. But we also have the right to speak up about it.

On Sundays, Q Cumbers restaurant in Minneapolis gives you a discount for either a church bulletin or a copy of Minnesota Atheist’s Weekly Email.

Try this: go to whoever’s in charge and tell them, “I’m an atheist, but I’d like to take advantage of your promotion and have the proceeds go to the local SPCA instead. Is that all right?”

Chances are, they’d be fine with it. I’m assuming most people are reasonable people.

I’d try it myself, but I don’t eat at Denny’s. In fact, I’d never heard of the restaurant until now.

I work just 10 minutes away from that Denny’s. I wonder if they will donate to this church.

Edit: Danielle beat me to it apparrently.

Danielle, Meekerson:

“Freethought” is a big word. I don’t know if they’d understand what it’d mean. I think a mosque would make a better test case.

I was looking at the flash presentation on the Denny’s website and did a screen capture when I saw the 10% discount promotion.

Danielle greeked me, but yeah, North Texas Church of Freethought (or the Texas Church of Freethought or the Atheist Community of Austin) are other ways to go on this.

“Same if they said “no blacks can eat here!”. I would hope that black people would then forgo even applying to work there (cutting off a substantial amount of potential workforce) and that the loss of black people eating there would further harm their profits, as well as the added boycotts from other groups.”

True, boycotts would work if there was no law in place…except…and correct me if I’m wrong..there are already established laws for this sort of thing….

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964

http://www.ourdocuments.gov/doc.php?flash=true&doc=97&page=transcript

TITLE II–INJUNCTIVE RELIEF AGAINST DISCRIMINATION IN PLACES OF PUBLIC ACCOMMODATION
SEC. 201. (a) All persons shall be entitled to the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, and privileges, advantages, and accommodations of any place of public accommodation, as defined in this section, without discrimination or segregation on the ground of race, color, religion, or national origin.

(b) Each of the following establishments which serves the public is a place of public accommodation within the meaning of this title if its operations affect commerce, or if discrimination or segregation by it is supported by State action:

(1) any inn, hotel, motel, or other establishment which provides lodging to transient guests, other than an establishment located within a building which contains not more than five rooms for rent or hire and which is actually occupied by the proprietor of such establishment as his residence;

(2) any restaurant, cafeteria, lunchroom, lunch counter, soda fountain, or other facility principally engaged in selling food for consumption on the premises, including, but not limited to, any such facility located on the
premises of any retail establishment; or any gasoline station;

They breakin the law, they pay the price?

I fail to see where any discrimination is taking place. If they didn’t serve atheists/agnostics/non-churchgoers on the basis of belief or unbelief, that would be discrimination. This Denny’s “promotion” doesn’t fit the bill.

By the rationale of some people who have posted comments here, it’s discriminatory for Papa John’s to give the local college kids 10% off since many people are not in college. Additionally, it’s discriminatory for Local Liquor Joint to offer 50% off well drinks to females on “Ladies Night” since many people are male.

But if Papa John’s didn’t serve me on the basis of not being a college student or Local Liquor Joint didn’t serve me because I’m male, then I’d have a valid complaint regarding discrimination.

And what about those Senior Citizen discounts? Why should I pay 15% more? Kids eat free?! What a load of bullshit! Clearly a discriminatory practice against anyone over the age of 12.

This is a non-issue; calling foul when there is no foul.

I’m an atheist and I think its stupid to waste our time on junk like this. Who cares if they want to give 10% to Church goers? Does it make your food more expensive? Nope. If you don’t like it, don’t eat there. Its not discrimination. They aren’t taking anything away from you. Its not the same thing as fair employment or housing. If a restaurant offers to discount to parties of 8 or more, is it discrimination to singles or couples? If a restaurant offers a discount to men and women of uniform, is it discrimination against civilians? Pick your battles.

Now, if they raise the prices 10% unless you have a church flyer, that’s different. Plus, does it really matter if you pay 3.99 for crappy eggs or $3.60? Its still crappy food at a crappy establishment.

Fighting battles like this just makes Secularists and non-believers look even worse in the eyes of the public.

Bad PR move.

Just as I support the Boy Scouts of America’s right to deny gay people/atheists membership (although I disagree with it). I’d vocally oppose it, but I wouldn’t persue legal action against them, or try to force them to change it through government intervention (if I had the power to do so).

Slight tangent: Don Juan Triumphant, I think you may misunderstand the crucial legal issue with the Boy Scouts. As a private organization, they have the legal right to discriminate (although not the moral right). But the Boy Scouts get government support. They meet for free in libraries, public schools, civic centers, etc. If they want to continue to discriminate, they should not be getting what amounts to government funding.

As for Denny’s: I’m sorry, but it is discrimination. If they give a discount to churchgoers that’s not available to non-churchgoers, then that’s discrimination in public accommodation on the basis of religion. Period. Every bit as much as if they offered a discount to members of a male-only golf club. It’s not the most severe form of discrimination around… but again, the more we can get this kind of thing into the public eye, the better.

I really don’t see this as a discrimination issue either. If they *refused* service on the basis of religion, then they would be discriminating. They are not a government agency and can offer discounts in any fashion they see fit. What if it were coupons that were only printed in a college newspaper? Would they be discriminating against people who did not go to that college?

The only thing I object to is sending money back to a church. Otherwise, I’d just go grab a church bulletin and get myself a discounted breakfast.

At any rate, I think this is small guns and silly to go after legally. More important things to worry about.

I think Jeff did the best thing he could do there. The law states that businesses can’t discriminate on basis of religion (among other things), and that particular Denny’s is discriminating against people who don’t attend church. If they don’t change that practice after he informed them about it, I think a lawsuit would be in order.

I think if it were me, I would probably have stopped going to that Denny’s or something, mainly because I wouldn’t want to go through all the trouble of writing a letter to the company, et cetera.

The Senior Citizen discount/Kids menu thing just won’t fly. Both are offered with smaller portions then the regular menu items with the Kids menu offering some things that only children would touch. If you honestly want to order from them I doubt they will argue with you, although they might look at you sideways.

As for the Ladies Night discounts, that is for the benefit of the MEN, to bring more ladies into the club. Do you really have a problem with that?

I think this must be a regional thing, because I’ve never seen one of these signs. My first thought is that in this we (by we I mean atheists) might be getting upset over nothing. I grew up in a fundamentalist christian family, and my reaction to those signs is that it probably didn’t even occur to them that any atheists would be going out for Sunday breakfast and this would hurt them. To me, this just looked like a way to reward local Christians for not sleeping through church. I would be surprised if they would turn down a flier from a non religious meeting, if it had the “feel” of a church event. (I’ve always wanted a weekly discussion group on non-religious morality)

Brian,

Thanks for the update. The law in this area of discounts for various groups appears to be unresolved. See a good discussion in the book “Clubhouse Lawyer” beginning on page 282, available here:

http://books.google.com/books?id=oI_RlRvfAucC&pg=PA282&lpg=PA282&dq=lawsuit+%22church+bulletin%22+discounts&source=bl&ots=1Fvxyn699V&sig=U6FUcvBBHDCs9YIzmP6psv_pGLE&hl=en&ei=52twSvOVMIWANu3cyNQI&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3

I for one will never again eat at a Denny’s. Not because of this promotion, but because every time I’ve ever eaten at one, they’ve always been extremely dirty and the service was terrible.

Some of you miss the point. By ignoring this kind of quasi discrimination this only says to Denny’s that it’s OK to offer ONLY church goers your discount and we don’t care and neither should anyone else when in fact WE DO care and everyone should care regardless of whether you go to church or not. Suppose at the bottom they begin saying, “Atheists can just go to hell.” because that’s what it says in essence. What about all other groups with a 501c tax exemption? How about Boy Scouts? Red Cross Members How about a discount to followers of Zany thoughts of flying to Jupiter Anonymous members?
Suppose you’re a Baptist going in alone, get your discount and a bunch of Catholics enter and want to beat you up for being Baptist and getting what they consider an unfair discount? Suppose you’re one of those nutso snake worshipers? Should you be allowed to do your snake dance before eating as a way of making an offering to your gawd? OR what if WE as atheists go in, not even ask for a discount then some church group decides everyone in the dump should have to stand up and pray before eating? Sure, you have the right to tell them to piss up a rope, but they WILL do all they can to make you feel small and Denny’s will almost certainly oblige them and not say a word otherwise if they get in your face and accuse you of not loving their god. You satanic, baby eating monster loving bad people!
These types of things go on far to often and when you give a church an inch we ALL know most take 50 miles and proof of that is the tax exemption in exchange for staying out of politics which is something they have consistently ignored and flaunted in our faces. If that type of behavior if fine by you then by all means sit down, shut up and let them keep getting away with whatever they want to get away with.
On the other hand if you’re sick of it then at the very least make your voice be heard whether it’s legal or not. let Denny’s know that you’re against giving ‘certain” religions a free pass while others get no pass at all. You don’t have to jump up and make fools of yourselves, but let Denny’s know they are being fools and being made suckers of by the churches as if everyone else who doesn’t go a bybull thumping.

“Obviously such a suit would have little legal merit”

-huh? doesn’t the civil rights act prohibit public accommodations from discriminating on the basis of religion? (hint: yes.)

Polly, I have no doubt that there are arguments for why this policy does not discriminate on the basis of religion. But, each of your points is, at most, an arguable characterization of the practice. Surely the lawsuit would have much more than “little legal merit.” It may or may not ultimately be a winner, but the fundamental argument is sound, and has substantial legal merit.

I recommend that if there is an establishment that does this that unbelievers go download a bulletin of the North Texas Church of Freethought here: http://www.churchoffreethought.org/bulletins.php and use it to get your discount and/or make them contribute to the cause of rationalism !