Comments on: An Atheist Lawyer’s Alternative Oath

By: Chris

Chris — Mon, 21 Sep 2009 21:01:01 +0000

When I was admitted to the bar in Ohio recently, there was also some “god language” in the oath, but as I recall the chief justice said we could admit that if we wanted to. I’m surprised nothing similar was said to you. These oaths don’t just offend non-believers; there are several Christian sects who forbid members to swear oaths to god, like Jehovah’s Witnesses.

By: Shawn

Shawn — Mon, 21 Sep 2009 12:22:08 +0000

Kudos to her for taking the oath seriously.

Did she have to sign a copy of this (the picture above)? If so, how did she handle the printed line?

By: keddaw

keddaw — Mon, 21 Sep 2009 11:37:36 +0000

Passed the bar…
Found a church/state separation issue…

If only she knew a good lawyer that could challenge it.

Surely the first sentence negates the last:
“I do solemnly swear that I will uphold the Constitution of the United States of America…”
“So help me God”

By: hoverFrog

hoverFrog — Sun, 20 Sep 2009 21:38:17 +0000

Well done and very well said.

By: Robert Madewell

Robert Madewell — Sun, 20 Sep 2009 20:49:37 +0000

I would have asked for an alternative oath. They need to know that not everybody believes in God and thinks an oath to him is binding. I do know that there is an alternative oath in Missouri for testifying in court. Maybe, there is one for the bar.

By: John C. Snider

John C. Snider — Sun, 20 Sep 2009 12:42:09 +0000

I had a very similar experience recently, albeit with much less at stake. I just became a Notary Public in the state of Georgia. When I delivered my paperwork to the courthouse clerk, she pushed a little piece of paper in front of me, and asked me to raise my right hand and read it aloud. It was an oath to be honest and impartial in my dealings, yadda yadda yadda, and at the end of the last sentence it said “so help me God.”

So I raised my right hand, read the oath, but when I got to that last comma, I just stopped reciting, lowered my hand, turned the paper around and slid it back over to her.

She never blinked an eye. Now I’m a Notary Public.

By: Jerad

Jerad — Sun, 20 Sep 2009 08:32:43 +0000

note I’d object by stating “I do affirm that the testimony you are about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth under the pains and penalties of perjury?”

By: Jerad

Jerad — Sun, 20 Sep 2009 08:21:25 +0000

Matt D: According to yahoo answers (totally credible source!) you don’t have to swear on the bible and can say yes to:

Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you are about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth under the pains and penalties of perjury?

Edit: Hmm, other are purporting that what you now are asked (without a bible.) (from another question on yahoo answers.)

Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you are about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth so help you God or under the pains and penalties of perjury?

That I think I’d have to object to.

By: MikeTheInfidel

MikeTheInfidel — Sun, 20 Sep 2009 07:37:20 +0000

Matt: I view it much the same way as I’d view an oath to Thor. I wouldn’t feel like saying “so help me Thor” actually meant I was professing a belief in Thor, even if other people saw it that way.

Maybe I’m being a bit too pragmatic; I’m pretty literal-minded. I understand the desire to separate religion from the functions of the state, but for some reason I don’t think this is a battle I’d pick – or, at least, not something I’d lose a lot of sleep over.

By: reggie

reggie — Sun, 20 Sep 2009 07:36:18 +0000

MikeTheInfidel doesn’t understand her apprehension, which is understandable. To some, it would not be a big deal to simply recite the words. However, in her original post, she states:

“But I could not ignore the last phrase that continued to nag me. I started getting a sick feeling in my stomach. I was about to swear an oath that would be immediately undermined by this one phrase of four small words; words that I did not believe.”

It was a matter of integrity and honesty. She didn’t want to start here career with a lie.