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	<title>Comments on: The Lodi Lawsuit Waiting to Happen</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/10/04/the-lodi-lawsuit-waiting-to-happen/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/10/04/the-lodi-lawsuit-waiting-to-happen/</link>
	<description>by Hemant Mehta</description>
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		<title>By: Oscar Gecko</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/10/04/the-lodi-lawsuit-waiting-to-happen/#comment-380455</link>
		<dc:creator>Oscar Gecko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Oct 2009 19:22:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=16740#comment-380455</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;the Lodi (California) City Council voted unanimously, 5-0, to allow &lt;strong&gt;uncensored&lt;/strong&gt; prayers before meetings.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
It says &quot;uncensored.&quot; Would that also include something like an atheist&#039;s &quot;prayer&quot; just like what happened at a Cobb County board meeting in Georgia?

&lt;a href=&quot;http://friendlyatheist.com/2009/07/30/atheist-delivers-invocation-at-cobb-county-board-meeting/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Atheist Delivers Invocation at Cobb County Board Meeting&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>the Lodi (California) City Council voted unanimously, 5-0, to allow <strong>uncensored</strong> prayers before meetings.</p></blockquote>
<p>It says &#8220;uncensored.&#8221; Would that also include something like an atheist&#8217;s &#8220;prayer&#8221; just like what happened at a Cobb County board meeting in Georgia?</p>
<p><a href="http://friendlyatheist.com/2009/07/30/atheist-delivers-invocation-at-cobb-county-board-meeting/" rel="nofollow">Atheist Delivers Invocation at Cobb County Board Meeting</a></p>
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		<title>By: muggle</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/10/04/the-lodi-lawsuit-waiting-to-happen/#comment-372772</link>
		<dc:creator>muggle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 17:52:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=16740#comment-372772</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d rather see the courts have the balls to decide what they should in the first place but, failing that, I too second Todd.  Every time the court fails to do what it should, let a flood of prayer/nonsense they find offensive give them a taste of their own medicine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d rather see the courts have the balls to decide what they should in the first place but, failing that, I too second Todd.  Every time the court fails to do what it should, let a flood of prayer/nonsense they find offensive give them a taste of their own medicine.</p>
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		<title>By: Just Some Guy</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/10/04/the-lodi-lawsuit-waiting-to-happen/#comment-372421</link>
		<dc:creator>Just Some Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 17:49:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=16740#comment-372421</guid>
		<description>I gotta agree with Todd here. I hope it gets plenty of airtime and gobs of fundies waving banners - before an FFRF suit shuts it down.

Just part of the ongoing process of educating these people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I gotta agree with Todd here. I hope it gets plenty of airtime and gobs of fundies waving banners &#8211; before an FFRF suit shuts it down.</p>
<p>Just part of the ongoing process of educating these people.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/10/04/the-lodi-lawsuit-waiting-to-happen/#comment-372347</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 14:10:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=16740#comment-372347</guid>
		<description>A &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.au.org/what-we-do/lawsuits/archives/joyner-v-forsyth-county.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;similar&lt;/a&gt; &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.au.org/media/church-and-state/archives/2007/05/invocation-confr.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;lawsuit&lt;/a&gt; (notice two different links there) has occurred in North Carolina&#039;s Forsyth County, my home county. While certainly not binding on federal courts in California, a ruling in the &lt;i&gt;Joyner&lt;/i&gt; case should be instructive as to how another court will rule.

Oral arguments on cross-summary judgment motions are scheduled for next week, October 14 at 10:30AM in Courtroom G1A of the U.S. Courthouse at 324 W. Market Street in Greensboro. As almost all court proceedings are, these arguments will be open to the public. I plan to attend, and I encourage other North Carolinians interested in this issue to attend as well.

If you want copies of the briefs or other court documents, drop me an e-mail (sqfreak at g mail dot com) because I think I have copies of them or can at least get them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A <a href="http://www.au.org/what-we-do/lawsuits/archives/joyner-v-forsyth-county.html" rel="nofollow">similar</a> <a href="http://www.au.org/media/church-and-state/archives/2007/05/invocation-confr.html" rel="nofollow">lawsuit</a> (notice two different links there) has occurred in North Carolina&#8217;s Forsyth County, my home county. While certainly not binding on federal courts in California, a ruling in the <i>Joyner</i> case should be instructive as to how another court will rule.</p>
<p>Oral arguments on cross-summary judgment motions are scheduled for next week, October 14 at 10:30AM in Courtroom G1A of the U.S. Courthouse at 324 W. Market Street in Greensboro. As almost all court proceedings are, these arguments will be open to the public. I plan to attend, and I encourage other North Carolinians interested in this issue to attend as well.</p>
<p>If you want copies of the briefs or other court documents, drop me an e-mail (sqfreak at g mail dot com) because I think I have copies of them or can at least get them.</p>
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		<title>By: no2religion</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/10/04/the-lodi-lawsuit-waiting-to-happen/#comment-372171</link>
		<dc:creator>no2religion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 03:42:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=16740#comment-372171</guid>
		<description>And people say we don&#039;t do crazy in California. Well we do it just fine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And people say we don&#8217;t do crazy in California. Well we do it just fine.</p>
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		<title>By: Hemant Mehta</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/10/04/the-lodi-lawsuit-waiting-to-happen/#comment-372124</link>
		<dc:creator>Hemant Mehta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Oct 2009 22:48:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=16740#comment-372124</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Hemant writes:

“This story is getting a lot of attention from Christians everywhere… I wonder how many of them could tell you what issues are discussed at the council meetings post-prayer. Do they know? Do they care? Doubtful. The prayer is all that’s important to them. Not anything of real substance.”

It’s also getting attention from atheists everywhere. I wonder how many of them could tell you what issues are discussed at council meetings post-prayer.

What point are you even trying to make here, Hemant?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The atheists are talking about the Christian reaction to this story.  

The Christians are worked up because the prayers can now be said &quot;In Jesus&#039; Name&quot; and there are rational people opposed to that.

The atheists aren&#039;t concerned with the prayers.  We&#039;re concerned with the city council addressing whatever issues are important to the citizens of Lodi.  I don&#039;t know what those issues are, but I would hope any city council spends time talking about their local issues.

The Christians *only* seem to be concerned about the prayers and not the substance of the meetings.  From reading the articles and hearing what they have to say, it almost sounds like they could care less if a meeting took place as long as a prayer was said beforehand.  

That&#039;s a problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Hemant writes:</p>
<p>“This story is getting a lot of attention from Christians everywhere… I wonder how many of them could tell you what issues are discussed at the council meetings post-prayer. Do they know? Do they care? Doubtful. The prayer is all that’s important to them. Not anything of real substance.”</p>
<p>It’s also getting attention from atheists everywhere. I wonder how many of them could tell you what issues are discussed at council meetings post-prayer.</p>
<p>What point are you even trying to make here, Hemant?</p></blockquote>
<p>The atheists are talking about the Christian reaction to this story.  </p>
<p>The Christians are worked up because the prayers can now be said &#8220;In Jesus&#8217; Name&#8221; and there are rational people opposed to that.</p>
<p>The atheists aren&#8217;t concerned with the prayers.  We&#8217;re concerned with the city council addressing whatever issues are important to the citizens of Lodi.  I don&#8217;t know what those issues are, but I would hope any city council spends time talking about their local issues.</p>
<p>The Christians *only* seem to be concerned about the prayers and not the substance of the meetings.  From reading the articles and hearing what they have to say, it almost sounds like they could care less if a meeting took place as long as a prayer was said beforehand.  </p>
<p>That&#8217;s a problem.</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/10/04/the-lodi-lawsuit-waiting-to-happen/#comment-372123</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Oct 2009 22:42:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=16740#comment-372123</guid>
		<description>Hemant writes:

&quot;This story is getting a lot of attention from Christians everywhere… I wonder how many of them could tell you what issues are discussed at the council meetings post-prayer. Do they know? Do they care? Doubtful. The prayer is all that’s important to them. Not anything of real substance.&quot;

It&#039;s also getting attention from atheists everywhere. I wonder how many of them could tell you what issues are discussed at council meetings post-prayer. 

What point are you even trying to make here, Hemant?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hemant writes:</p>
<p>&#8220;This story is getting a lot of attention from Christians everywhere… I wonder how many of them could tell you what issues are discussed at the council meetings post-prayer. Do they know? Do they care? Doubtful. The prayer is all that’s important to them. Not anything of real substance.&#8221;</p>
<p>It&#8217;s also getting attention from atheists everywhere. I wonder how many of them could tell you what issues are discussed at council meetings post-prayer. </p>
<p>What point are you even trying to make here, Hemant?</p>
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		<title>By: Buffy</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/10/04/the-lodi-lawsuit-waiting-to-happen/#comment-372117</link>
		<dc:creator>Buffy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Oct 2009 22:28:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=16740#comment-372117</guid>
		<description>They&#039;re just pushing for the inevitable lawsuit so they can cry about how &quot;persecuted&quot; they are.  As if prayers in Jesus&#039; name are required for city business to get done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They&#8217;re just pushing for the inevitable lawsuit so they can cry about how &#8220;persecuted&#8221; they are.  As if prayers in Jesus&#8217; name are required for city business to get done.</p>
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		<title>By: Todd</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/10/04/the-lodi-lawsuit-waiting-to-happen/#comment-372114</link>
		<dc:creator>Todd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Oct 2009 22:17:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=16740#comment-372114</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;With the new changes, other faiths can offer invocations, too. So can the non-religious. But I can see this easily getting out of hand. What will the reaction be when someone praises Allah pre-meeting? Can someone bring up Xenu? Thor?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Frankly, I root for these sorts of things to get out hand.  Really, really, really out of hand.  Until Christians understand why separation of Church and State is important, they have to be subjected to the most outrageous blasphemy and intensive humiliation that we can muster.

Bring on the Church of the SubGenius.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>With the new changes, other faiths can offer invocations, too. So can the non-religious. But I can see this easily getting out of hand. What will the reaction be when someone praises Allah pre-meeting? Can someone bring up Xenu? Thor?</p></blockquote>
<p>Frankly, I root for these sorts of things to get out hand.  Really, really, really out of hand.  Until Christians understand why separation of Church and State is important, they have to be subjected to the most outrageous blasphemy and intensive humiliation that we can muster.</p>
<p>Bring on the Church of the SubGenius.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Wade</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/10/04/the-lodi-lawsuit-waiting-to-happen/#comment-372106</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Wade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Oct 2009 21:58:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=16740#comment-372106</guid>
		<description>California&#039;s Bible belt is the San Joaquin Valley and Lodi is near the buckle.  I used to have to drive past it to the college in Turlock, which &lt;em&gt;is&lt;/em&gt; the buckle.  I was always afraid my car would break down near Lodi.  

Everybody prays in Lodi, even if it’s just to get out, like Creedence Clearwater Revival:

Just about a year ago 
I set out on the road 
Seekin&#039; my fame and fortune 
And lookin&#039; for a pot of gold 
Things got bad, and things got worse 
I guess you know the tune 
Oh, Lord, stuck in Lodi again 

I rode in on a Greyhound, 
I&#039;ll be walkin&#039; out if I go 
I was just passin&#039; through 
Must be seven months or more 
Ran out of time and money 
Looks like they took my friends 
Oh, Lord, stuck in Lodi again   

The man from the magazine 
Said I was on my way 
Somewhere I lost connection 
Ran out of songs to play 
I came into town on a one-night stand 
Looks like my plans fell through 
Oh, Lord, stuck in Lodi again 

If I only had a dollar 
For every song I&#039;ve sung 
And every time I&#039;ve had to play 
While people sat there drunk 
You know I&#039;d catch the next train 
Back to where I live 
Oh, Lord, stuck in Lodi again</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>California&#8217;s Bible belt is the San Joaquin Valley and Lodi is near the buckle.  I used to have to drive past it to the college in Turlock, which <em>is</em> the buckle.  I was always afraid my car would break down near Lodi.  </p>
<p>Everybody prays in Lodi, even if it’s just to get out, like Creedence Clearwater Revival:</p>
<p>Just about a year ago<br />
I set out on the road<br />
Seekin&#8217; my fame and fortune<br />
And lookin&#8217; for a pot of gold<br />
Things got bad, and things got worse<br />
I guess you know the tune<br />
Oh, Lord, stuck in Lodi again </p>
<p>I rode in on a Greyhound,<br />
I&#8217;ll be walkin&#8217; out if I go<br />
I was just passin&#8217; through<br />
Must be seven months or more<br />
Ran out of time and money<br />
Looks like they took my friends<br />
Oh, Lord, stuck in Lodi again   </p>
<p>The man from the magazine<br />
Said I was on my way<br />
Somewhere I lost connection<br />
Ran out of songs to play<br />
I came into town on a one-night stand<br />
Looks like my plans fell through<br />
Oh, Lord, stuck in Lodi again </p>
<p>If I only had a dollar<br />
For every song I&#8217;ve sung<br />
And every time I&#8217;ve had to play<br />
While people sat there drunk<br />
You know I&#8217;d catch the next train<br />
Back to where I live<br />
Oh, Lord, stuck in Lodi again</p>
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