Comments on: A Real Statement from Albuquerque City Council Member Don Harris

By: Otto

Otto — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 14:20:01 +0000

Harris would not have gotten away with it if he substituted the word “black” or “Jew” in the place of “atheist.”

Have you *seen* some of the campaigning in this country?

This one happened a year ago here in Memphis: http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/2008/08/postracial_poli.html

Now, admittedly, the person whom this ad was for, Nikki Tinker, did not release it herself, but then she was also clearly insane. And not just of the racist variety, but of the holy-heck-she-needs-padded-walls variety. But that didn’t stop a local church reverend from outright agreeing with her: http://bruindemocrats.blogspot.com/2008/08/tn-09-racist-and-anti-semitic-ads-from.html

On the scale of things, his use of “Atheist” was pretty light, although along the same lines.

By: beckster

beckster — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 02:31:49 +0000

I brought up Atheism and treated it merely as part of a bundle of ultra liberal attributes, and to contradict his own political messaging. I certainly did not mean to criticize or offend any thoughtful Atheists.

It seems he is saying that someone who is liberal and an atheist is not thoughtful.

By: Vas

Vas — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 00:26:39 +0000

uh… Fact check. It was drought Barbour was talking about in the newspaper interview, not draught. I don’t think closing your window would help much unless your room was half full of water and you wanted to put a damper on evaporation. Or maybe you were worried about your boat running aground if the water went out the window and became too shallow. Or maybe it’s a beer thing as in “man all those drunks from the bars down the street worry me… better close the window”. Or maybe a fear of checkers. Or maybe just the creepy sight of me beating a dead horse, (guess what kind of horse). Ah crap I’m WAY off topic and kind of joking around a bit. forgive me, sometimes I just start down a path and… start all my sentences with conjunctions. But I mean well. And I do kind of have a point even if it is on the top of my head.
V

By: Polly

Polly — Wed, 14 Oct 2009 23:33:51 +0000

Like Barbour, “draught” used to worry me, too. Then I closed my window and it was fine.

By: Vas

Vas — Wed, 14 Oct 2009 23:13:47 +0000

And one more thing for Mr. Harris,

I brought up Atheism and treated it merely as part of a bundle

Really? Is that what capitalizing, bolding and italicizing, (twice) infers, merely?
Keep reflecting Mr. Harris, I really want you to “get it”. No need to respond to me but keep reflecting for your own good, at least be honest with yourself.
V

By: Vas

Vas — Wed, 14 Oct 2009 22:32:23 +0000

Wow a post from Don Harris, good for you Mr. Harris. It seems, as I stated before, that we were not being dismissed at all. The guy needed time to think and reflect, it can take a lot to reassess a position, as I said a little time a few letters = a little result, a bit more time a few more letters = a bit more result.
A quick note to keddaw, the problem as I see it is that Mr. Barbour never claimed to be an atheist, I wrote to him and asked him point blank and he never confirmed he was an atheist or suggested that he was an atheist. Mr. Harris may be in possession of facts that I am not, however he never presented them to me or anyone at this site to my knowledge. To this day I don’t know that Mr. Barbour self identifies as an atheist, and when asked did not say he was. Mr. Harris’ leaflet was presenting “facts” not in evidence, and “facts” still not supported. He refers to a well established religious faction, (UU) as a “church” complete with quotation marks, I think that indicates that he discounts “churches” of which he is not an adherent and a belief that only his Church is the one true religion, while other “churches” are misguided to say the least. If a candidate for office self identifies as a adherent to a particular belief system go ahead and have at it, say how you feel, argue your point, have a field day. If someone proclaims they are running on an atheist platform feel free to criticize that platform. But at least let them make it an issue, and don’t just point at them and say, “hey vote for me because that other guy is a Jew”, (to use Jew an example of a statement of fact used as and intended as a derogatory slur). In that case the intent seems clear, Jews are creepy and intent on undermining your, (the voters) way of life, fear them, elect me instead. Add to this the fact that the opposing candidate may not even be Jewish and the whole thing gets even creepier. It is the use of the word atheist as a derogatory, as a slur that upset me.
Back to Mr. Harris. He seems to have come a long way in a short time. From my brief correspondence with him I believe him to be thoughtful and capable of introspection. I believe he is capable of changing his position when presented with evidence that is compelling. He could have easily stonewalled us and It most likely would have been to his advantage to do so. He puts himself at risk by posting on this site and his political opponents may be able to now present evidence that Mr. Harris is sympathetic to atheist causes and attack him as he did Mr. Barbour. As for the “nopology” I think that is a bit harsh, it’s not as though he left it at the first two attempts to apologize, he kept at it, and went public, and they got better. Really it is rather hard to apologize to a group you vehemently disagree with. I have information that leads me to believe that Mr. Harris is an attorney, this may in some small way explain his dodgy apologies, it could be as simple as training. Please encourage Mr. Harris, remember that he now visits this site and will likely read your comments. Be generous, be kind, and don’t give him reason to regret making a public statement here. This may be just a single step on a journey for Mr. Harris, be supportive and encourage him to make the next step, we won’t be with him for the entire journey, but I for one hope he continues down this new path and wish him well. I think there has been a fundamental change in Mr. Harris’ views on the subject of atheism. On a final note I hope one day Mr. Harris comes to believe that religion has not only no place in political campaigns, but no place in politics either.
VAS

By: Colin

Colin — Wed, 14 Oct 2009 16:48:53 +0000

Well played, Hemant. Maybe, just maybe, Mr. Harris has learned something out of all this. We should keep an eye out for him and see how he acts in future elections…

By: Siamang

Siamang — Wed, 14 Oct 2009 15:46:28 +0000

Interesting.

I felt I bent over backwards in my email to him (which I posted here) to separate his actions from the main issues of the election, and who was a better candidate. I also sought to clearly differentiate Harris’ actions from any guessed-at attitude or motive on his part other than to win his election.

Perhaps I gave him too much benefit of the doubt.

In the end, he turns out to be more politician than man, which is to be expected, I suppose.

He made more of a statement than I thought he would, so I have to give him credit for that. But it’s half-credit, only because my respect for politicians is so low that I didn’t expect even a half-hearted one. For a normal human being, this is a non-pology. But for a politician, it’s almost a damned miracle.

By: Claudia

Claudia — Wed, 14 Oct 2009 14:45:19 +0000

Hell, John “Blow up the U.N” Bolton is an atheist. So is Christopher Hitchens, who is liberal on some social issues but a neo-con hawk otherwise.

There is some merit to the association of atheist-liberal, just as there is some merit to ultrareligious-conservative. Much like gays tend to be liberal because many conservatives routinely malign and marginalize them, atheists tend to be liberal because conservatism has so aligned with religiosity and anti-secularism (with the implied bigotry against us) that most of us can’t bring ourselves to identify as conservatives even when we may agree on a whole host of non-religion related issues.

By: Roger

Roger — Wed, 14 Oct 2009 14:00:52 +0000

I emailed Barbour several days ago seeking a response to Harris’ email, but I have not heard back from him.

You probably won’t hear back from him. He’s issued his nopology (and tried to take you to the rhetorical woodshed in the same breath–astonishing!), so he’s likely to move on and ignore your more thoughtful analysis.