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	<title>Comments on: Dad Performs (and Botches) Circumcision on His Four-Year-Old Son</title>
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	<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/10/18/dad-performs-and-botches-circumcision-on-his-four-year-old-son/</link>
	<description>by Hemant Mehta</description>
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		<title>By: pete</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/10/18/dad-performs-and-botches-circumcision-on-his-four-year-old-son/#comment-378087</link>
		<dc:creator>pete</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 04:14:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2009/10/18/dad-performs-and-botches-circumcision-on-his-four-year-old-son/#comment-378087</guid>
		<description>DianaG Says: &quot;Where the hell was the child’s mother during all of this?!&quot;

Id say most likely quietly hiding.

Religion ..It allows for the craziest stuff to happen and people to get away with doing it.

Here is a sample from our own country http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.d613788a0b5b84549b2785a128bb7236.981&amp;show_article=1</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DianaG Says: &#8220;Where the hell was the child’s mother during all of this?!&#8221;</p>
<p>Id say most likely quietly hiding.</p>
<p>Religion ..It allows for the craziest stuff to happen and people to get away with doing it.</p>
<p>Here is a sample from our own country <a href="http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.d613788a0b5b84549b2785a128bb7236.981&#038;show_article=1" rel="nofollow">http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.d613788a0b5b84549b2785a128bb7236.981&#038;show_article=1</a></p>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/10/18/dad-performs-and-botches-circumcision-on-his-four-year-old-son/#comment-377961</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 20:59:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2009/10/18/dad-performs-and-botches-circumcision-on-his-four-year-old-son/#comment-377961</guid>
		<description>A few things I want to respond to.

Lynet: Yes, removal of the clitoris is worse than removal of the foreskin. So? That&#039;s not the position I call sexist, the position I call sexist is the cutting of female genitals=bad and cutting of male=good to neutral.

Cathy: Yes, exactly. Degree of harm doesn&#039;t matter, harm is done for no good reason.

Keddaw: I have a friend with three thumbs, I don&#039;t see why he needs the one removed. 

Also, the STD argument is bullshit.
http://www.cirp.org/library/disease/HIV/vanhowe4/
An analysis of the scientific literature, published in The International Journal of STDs and AIDS, shows that men with circumcised penises are actually at a greater risk of HIV.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A few things I want to respond to.</p>
<p>Lynet: Yes, removal of the clitoris is worse than removal of the foreskin. So? That&#8217;s not the position I call sexist, the position I call sexist is the cutting of female genitals=bad and cutting of male=good to neutral.</p>
<p>Cathy: Yes, exactly. Degree of harm doesn&#8217;t matter, harm is done for no good reason.</p>
<p>Keddaw: I have a friend with three thumbs, I don&#8217;t see why he needs the one removed. </p>
<p>Also, the STD argument is bullshit.<br />
<a href="http://www.cirp.org/library/disease/HIV/vanhowe4/" rel="nofollow">http://www.cirp.org/library/disease/HIV/vanhowe4/</a><br />
An analysis of the scientific literature, published in The International Journal of STDs and AIDS, shows that men with circumcised penises are actually at a greater risk of HIV.</p>
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		<title>By: thatguy</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/10/18/dad-performs-and-botches-circumcision-on-his-four-year-old-son/#comment-377941</link>
		<dc:creator>thatguy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 19:57:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2009/10/18/dad-performs-and-botches-circumcision-on-his-four-year-old-son/#comment-377941</guid>
		<description>Any study about STD transmission cannnot be used to support neonatal circumcision.  Babies don&#039;t have sex.  By the time he is he will be probably old enough to make this decision by himself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Any study about STD transmission cannnot be used to support neonatal circumcision.  Babies don&#8217;t have sex.  By the time he is he will be probably old enough to make this decision by himself.</p>
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		<title>By: jemand</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/10/18/dad-performs-and-botches-circumcision-on-his-four-year-old-son/#comment-377923</link>
		<dc:creator>jemand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 18:36:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2009/10/18/dad-performs-and-botches-circumcision-on-his-four-year-old-son/#comment-377923</guid>
		<description>but I *DON&#039;T* agree with removing a 6th finger!  Some children have six, naturally functioning fingers in a well formed hand.  It would be mutilation to chop one off.  It&#039;s only if the finger is rudimentary, in fact doesn&#039;t work well, and gets in the way of the child&#039;s other fingers that it would be justifiable to cut it off.  

Like a &quot;medically necessary&quot; circumcision.  (Usually there are other treatment options, but circumcision is so common anyway it&#039;s usually used first.  I imagine there are *some* cases where it might actually be warranted.)

Also note that EVERY study about std transmission and circumcision has focused on men circumcised as adults.  It can&#039;t be used in support of neonatal circumcision.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>but I *DON&#8217;T* agree with removing a 6th finger!  Some children have six, naturally functioning fingers in a well formed hand.  It would be mutilation to chop one off.  It&#8217;s only if the finger is rudimentary, in fact doesn&#8217;t work well, and gets in the way of the child&#8217;s other fingers that it would be justifiable to cut it off.  </p>
<p>Like a &#8220;medically necessary&#8221; circumcision.  (Usually there are other treatment options, but circumcision is so common anyway it&#8217;s usually used first.  I imagine there are *some* cases where it might actually be warranted.)</p>
<p>Also note that EVERY study about std transmission and circumcision has focused on men circumcised as adults.  It can&#8217;t be used in support of neonatal circumcision.</p>
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		<title>By: keddaw</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/10/18/dad-performs-and-botches-circumcision-on-his-four-year-old-son/#comment-377880</link>
		<dc:creator>keddaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 17:30:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2009/10/18/dad-performs-and-botches-circumcision-on-his-four-year-old-son/#comment-377880</guid>
		<description>Circumcision is wrong on all levels.  I had an argument with someone who had a medically necessary circumcision when he was a kid and he was trying to defend it, basically by comparing it to piercing a girl&#039;s ears and I compared it to choppinga  child&#039;s finger off.

In hindsight his response should have been &quot;well, you agree with allowing the removal of a child&#039;s 6th finger for cosmetic reasons.&quot;  A great response and would have stumped me at the time.

On refelction though, it&#039;s not that great.  A 6th finger is not natural (albeit not harmful either) any more than a tail is.  We remove the unnatural appendages.  Foreskins evolved.  They are there for a reason that may not actually be relevant anymore (like the appendix) or we may discover they are important, but since we don&#039;t routinely remove the appendix I don&#039;t see why we should remove the foreskin.
Since the invention of soap I don&#039;t see how it could ever be regarded as cleaner to have it removed?
The studies that suggest circumcision leads to a lower chance of STDs (because of scar tissue?) are refuted by other studies that say the lesser feeling that a circumcised penis has leads to harde thrusts which cause more tearing (in their partner at least.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Circumcision is wrong on all levels.  I had an argument with someone who had a medically necessary circumcision when he was a kid and he was trying to defend it, basically by comparing it to piercing a girl&#8217;s ears and I compared it to choppinga  child&#8217;s finger off.</p>
<p>In hindsight his response should have been &#8220;well, you agree with allowing the removal of a child&#8217;s 6th finger for cosmetic reasons.&#8221;  A great response and would have stumped me at the time.</p>
<p>On refelction though, it&#8217;s not that great.  A 6th finger is not natural (albeit not harmful either) any more than a tail is.  We remove the unnatural appendages.  Foreskins evolved.  They are there for a reason that may not actually be relevant anymore (like the appendix) or we may discover they are important, but since we don&#8217;t routinely remove the appendix I don&#8217;t see why we should remove the foreskin.<br />
Since the invention of soap I don&#8217;t see how it could ever be regarded as cleaner to have it removed?<br />
The studies that suggest circumcision leads to a lower chance of STDs (because of scar tissue?) are refuted by other studies that say the lesser feeling that a circumcised penis has leads to harde thrusts which cause more tearing (in their partner at least.)</p>
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		<title>By: PrimeNumbers</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/10/18/dad-performs-and-botches-circumcision-on-his-four-year-old-son/#comment-377797</link>
		<dc:creator>PrimeNumbers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 14:07:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2009/10/18/dad-performs-and-botches-circumcision-on-his-four-year-old-son/#comment-377797</guid>
		<description>Cathy, my comment rambled on a bit and was not as coherent as I would have liked.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cathy, my comment rambled on a bit and was not as coherent as I would have liked.</p>
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		<title>By: Liudvikas</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/10/18/dad-performs-and-botches-circumcision-on-his-four-year-old-son/#comment-377774</link>
		<dc:creator>Liudvikas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 13:10:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2009/10/18/dad-performs-and-botches-circumcision-on-his-four-year-old-son/#comment-377774</guid>
		<description>Thats it I&#039;m no longer an atheist, I&#039;ve adopted a new religion named &quot;I-can-do-whatever-the-fuck-I-wantism&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thats it I&#8217;m no longer an atheist, I&#8217;ve adopted a new religion named &#8220;I-can-do-whatever-the-fuck-I-wantism&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: cathy</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/10/18/dad-performs-and-botches-circumcision-on-his-four-year-old-son/#comment-377695</link>
		<dc:creator>cathy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 09:38:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2009/10/18/dad-performs-and-botches-circumcision-on-his-four-year-old-son/#comment-377695</guid>
		<description>Prime numbers, not a one of the people making the level of damage point also supported circumcision.  I was very clear that I thought that circumcision is terrible, but, comparing to it FGM and IGM minimizes the severity of these.  Also, when you do this it alienates people who do work around FGM and IGM and hurts your cause.  Also, IGM is incredibly normalized within American culture and causes extensive damage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Prime numbers, not a one of the people making the level of damage point also supported circumcision.  I was very clear that I thought that circumcision is terrible, but, comparing to it FGM and IGM minimizes the severity of these.  Also, when you do this it alienates people who do work around FGM and IGM and hurts your cause.  Also, IGM is incredibly normalized within American culture and causes extensive damage.</p>
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		<title>By: PrimeNumbers</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/10/18/dad-performs-and-botches-circumcision-on-his-four-year-old-son/#comment-377643</link>
		<dc:creator>PrimeNumbers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 05:53:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2009/10/18/dad-performs-and-botches-circumcision-on-his-four-year-old-son/#comment-377643</guid>
		<description>Circumcision for non-medical (ie cosmetic) reasons is wrong. Doing it for religious reasons is doubly wrong.

I think there&#039;d be a very different response to the issue of comparing female and male circumcision in England, say, where male circumcision is abnormal by a large margin. To debate &quot;degree of damage&quot; is missing the entire point that both are cruel mutilations of genitalia. Just because it&#039;s easy enough to see that female genital mutilation is worse doesn&#039;t mean that male genital mutilation is in any way not bad. And just because way too many american boys had it forced upon them before they could have a will of their own to object doesn&#039;t make it any less worse.

And this is a clear case where religion has &quot;normalized&quot; a barbaric act of mutilation, that would be easier to see in it&#039;s true light as a barbaric act if the evil practise was not common among certain religious communities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Circumcision for non-medical (ie cosmetic) reasons is wrong. Doing it for religious reasons is doubly wrong.</p>
<p>I think there&#8217;d be a very different response to the issue of comparing female and male circumcision in England, say, where male circumcision is abnormal by a large margin. To debate &#8220;degree of damage&#8221; is missing the entire point that both are cruel mutilations of genitalia. Just because it&#8217;s easy enough to see that female genital mutilation is worse doesn&#8217;t mean that male genital mutilation is in any way not bad. And just because way too many american boys had it forced upon them before they could have a will of their own to object doesn&#8217;t make it any less worse.</p>
<p>And this is a clear case where religion has &#8220;normalized&#8221; a barbaric act of mutilation, that would be easier to see in it&#8217;s true light as a barbaric act if the evil practise was not common among certain religious communities.</p>
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		<title>By: untheist</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/10/18/dad-performs-and-botches-circumcision-on-his-four-year-old-son/#comment-377634</link>
		<dc:creator>untheist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 05:23:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2009/10/18/dad-performs-and-botches-circumcision-on-his-four-year-old-son/#comment-377634</guid>
		<description>What if this had been a Muslim parent performing female circumcision on his daughter?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What if this had been a Muslim parent performing female circumcision on his daughter?</p>
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