Comments on: Italian National Day of Debaptism http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/10/21/italian-national-day-of-debaptism/ by Hemant Mehta Tue, 14 Feb 2012 13:37:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.3 By: Invicta http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/10/21/italian-national-day-of-debaptism/#comment-380268 Invicta Sat, 24 Oct 2009 13:35:02 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=17392#comment-380268 All you ex-Christians on and off the church rosters are lucky. I'm an ex-Jew and nobody, but nobody, believes me about the "ex" part. They say there's no getting off THAT list, short of (to plagiarize Douglas Adams) an accident with a time machine and a contraceptive. But I still found a way to get my apostasy in writing. The name on my birth certificate is straight out of Fiddler on the Roof, so I went to court and had it Anglicized. The form I had to fill out and the court order both say that a "change of religious affiliation" is the reason why I did it. Now that inconvenient little fact is a matter of public record, and what do I care if some throwbacks in silly costumes won't recognize it? All you ex-Christians on and off the church rosters are lucky. I’m an ex-Jew and nobody, but nobody, believes me about the “ex” part. They say there’s no getting off THAT list, short of (to plagiarize Douglas Adams) an accident with a time machine and a contraceptive.

But I still found a way to get my apostasy in writing. The name on my birth certificate is straight out of Fiddler on the Roof, so I went to court and had it Anglicized. The form I had to fill out and the court order both say that a “change of religious affiliation” is the reason why I did it. Now that inconvenient little fact is a matter of public record, and what do I care if some throwbacks in silly costumes won’t recognize it?

]]> By: Sandro http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/10/21/italian-national-day-of-debaptism/#comment-380196 Sandro Sat, 24 Oct 2009 09:52:17 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=17392#comment-380196 @David Your argumentations are so much like the italians' one (i mean the italian catholics). In Italy (and maybe some elsewhere) people thinks that baptism is only a spiritual thing. That's false. Here in Italy the politic has a big problem: politicians make laws according to church because about 96% of italian people are catholics. But -accepting just for a moment that this stat is real- that's not really exact, if you think about that only 30% of italian people go to church every week (or near). People get baptised when is about 1 year old (as happened to me), often because of tradition. But after they never go to church, or they stop when they get older. I don't go since 1998. So this means that, before debaptising, i was part of this 96% italian catholics. Now i am no more. Any question? @David
Your argumentations are so much like the italians’ one (i mean the italian catholics).
In Italy (and maybe some elsewhere) people thinks that baptism is only a spiritual thing.
That’s false. Here in Italy the politic has a big problem: politicians make laws according to church because about 96% of italian people are catholics. But -accepting just for a moment that this stat is real- that’s not really exact, if you think about that only 30% of italian people go to church every week (or near).
People get baptised when is about 1 year old (as happened to me), often because of tradition.
But after they never go to church, or they stop when they get older.
I don’t go since 1998. So this means that, before debaptising, i was part of this 96% italian catholics. Now i am no more.
Any question?

]]> By: Sandro http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/10/21/italian-national-day-of-debaptism/#comment-380190 Sandro Sat, 24 Oct 2009 09:40:23 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=17392#comment-380190 I got "debaptized" last year, sending a letter (thanx to UAAR) some weeks before the Debaptism day. The Archdiocese of Milan answered me that i'd be EXCOMMUNICATED for apostasy (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latae_sententiae" rel="nofollow">latae sententiae</a> which means "automatically") So they gave me time to think (2 weeks). At the end i would reached my goal. But nothing happened... since i phoned the Archidiocese (it was the beginning of dicember) asking something like a kindly "WTF?!?". So they apologize for being late and they sent me another letter in which they confirmed my "unsubscribtion". Aw... both the letters were written with the <a href="http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comic_Sans" rel="nofollow">Comic Sans</a> TTF. Check <a href="http://drcox.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!9C9DCEC6670129B4!1837.entry" rel="nofollow">it</a> out, if you don't believe me. I got “debaptized” last year, sending a letter (thanx to UAAR) some weeks before the Debaptism day.
The Archdiocese of Milan answered me that i’d be EXCOMMUNICATED for apostasy (latae sententiae which means “automatically”)

So they gave me time to think (2 weeks). At the end i would reached my goal.
But nothing happened… since i phoned the Archidiocese (it was the beginning of dicember) asking something like a kindly “WTF?!?”.
So they apologize for being late and they sent me another letter in which they confirmed my “unsubscribtion”.
Aw… both the letters were written with the Comic Sans TTF.
Check it out, if you don’t believe me.

]]> By: David http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/10/21/italian-national-day-of-debaptism/#comment-379145 David Thu, 22 Oct 2009 10:43:10 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=17392#comment-379145 Why so worried? A Baptism certificate just records that a ceremony took place. It has no other meaning than that unless you believe in the power of baptism. If you don't want to believe/go to church then don't. As for this nonsense about excommnuication then on eexcommunicates oneself. Not going to church does this. Before you get het up try checking out the ideas Why so worried? A Baptism certificate just records that a ceremony took place. It has no other meaning than that unless you believe in the power of baptism. If you don’t want to believe/go to church then don’t. As for this nonsense about excommnuication then on eexcommunicates oneself. Not going to church does this. Before you get het up try checking out the ideas

]]> By: Fabio Milito Pagliara http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/10/21/italian-national-day-of-debaptism/#comment-379106 Fabio Milito Pagliara Thu, 22 Oct 2009 07:11:51 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=17392#comment-379106 The point is to go public with the apostasy thing. To say out loud and in public to not be catholic or whatever or better yet to say "I don't believe in any god, I don't believe in any transcendent force or being" maybe we should go for a public album of apostasy! ps: I live in Italy and got my "debaptism" in 2003 :) The point is to go public with the apostasy thing.

To say out loud and in public to not be catholic or whatever or better yet to say “I don’t believe in any god, I don’t believe in any transcendent force or being”

maybe we should go for a public album of apostasy!

ps: I live in Italy and got my “debaptism” in 2003 :)

]]> By: Tuff http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/10/21/italian-national-day-of-debaptism/#comment-378960 Tuff Wed, 21 Oct 2009 23:10:33 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=17392#comment-378960 In the Italian debaptism, the form you send qualifies you to be excommunicated <em>latae sententiae</em>, that is just by presenting yourself as an apostate. I like the 3 times renouncement for lutherans though, it reminds me of Dorothy tapping her ruby slippers! Or ending your faith with yet another enchantment. In the Italian debaptism, the form you send qualifies you to be excommunicated latae sententiae, that is just by presenting yourself as an apostate.

I like the 3 times renouncement for lutherans though, it reminds me of Dorothy tapping her ruby slippers! Or ending your faith with yet another enchantment.

]]> By: Gordon http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/10/21/italian-national-day-of-debaptism/#comment-378941 Gordon Wed, 21 Oct 2009 22:21:52 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=17392#comment-378941 I used countmeout.ie to get the paperwork, but the Catholic Church are really dragging their feet about removing me from their lists. I used countmeout.ie to get the paperwork, but the Catholic Church are really dragging their feet about removing me from their lists.

]]> By: muggle http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/10/21/italian-national-day-of-debaptism/#comment-378834 muggle Wed, 21 Oct 2009 18:37:46 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=17392#comment-378834 Once again, I'm glad to be American. I was dedicated but I undedicated myself. I am amused at the debaptisms, however, and can't help but think way to go! at them. Once again, I’m glad to be American.

I was dedicated but I undedicated myself. I am amused at the debaptisms, however, and can’t help but think way to go! at them.

]]> By: Claudia http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/10/21/italian-national-day-of-debaptism/#comment-378814 Claudia Wed, 21 Oct 2009 18:04:59 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=17392#comment-378814 The Catholic Church does it's best to prevent ANYONE from getting off it's rosters. In Spain there's periodically a big fuss about it. It may sound like much ado about nothing but actually there's money involved. Put simply, in Spain an ample majority (though declining) of children are baptized. That makes you a church member for life. Of course in reality fewer than 20% of Spaniards take religion the slightest bit seriously. But since Spain has an OFFICIAL DEAL with the church that allows it to get tax euros, to them it's VERY important to maintain high numbers of "members". The end result is that they put roadblocks and stonewall people who want their names off the list. The Catholic Church does it’s best to prevent ANYONE from getting off it’s rosters. In Spain there’s periodically a big fuss about it.
It may sound like much ado about nothing but actually there’s money involved. Put simply, in Spain an ample majority (though declining) of children are baptized. That makes you a church member for life. Of course in reality fewer than 20% of Spaniards take religion the slightest bit seriously. But since Spain has an OFFICIAL DEAL with the church that allows it to get tax euros, to them it’s VERY important to maintain high numbers of “members”. The end result is that they put roadblocks and stonewall people who want their names off the list.

]]> By: Tizzle http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/10/21/italian-national-day-of-debaptism/#comment-378804 Tizzle Wed, 21 Oct 2009 17:49:16 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=17392#comment-378804 I'm on the roster, as well. I was a Jehovah's Witness, and it makes it easier in my family life to not disassociate myself. I think the de-baptism is funny and possibly helpful long-term in society because of awareness raising and all, but it's not for me. I don't have to quit the church, because it doesn't have any hold over me. For me, sending a letter or even getting debaptised (maybe at a private party it'd be fun) would indicate that I still cared what the church thought. It feels irrational to me to care about a symbolism I no longer believe in. But hey, some people need/want closure. I simply don't. I’m on the roster, as well. I was a Jehovah’s Witness, and it makes it easier in my family life to not disassociate myself.

I think the de-baptism is funny and possibly helpful long-term in society because of awareness raising and all, but it’s not for me.

I don’t have to quit the church, because it doesn’t have any hold over me. For me, sending a letter or even getting debaptised (maybe at a private party it’d be fun) would indicate that I still cared what the church thought. It feels irrational to me to care about a symbolism I no longer believe in. But hey, some people need/want closure. I simply don’t.

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