<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Ask Richard: Relating to Religious People At Times of Grief</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/10/23/ask-richard-relating-to-religious-people-at-times-of-grief/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/10/23/ask-richard-relating-to-religious-people-at-times-of-grief/</link>
	<description>by Hemant Mehta</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2012 18:24:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.3</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: JrzyGirl</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/10/23/ask-richard-relating-to-religious-people-at-times-of-grief/#comment-637767</link>
		<dc:creator>JrzyGirl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Jan 2011 20:56:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=17498#comment-637767</guid>
		<description>When my infant son died at 4.5 months, the nun at the hospital told me flat out that god felt my pain, but he needed Sutter in heaven more than I needed him on earth, so I should take some comfort in that.  It was all I could do to not scream at her that I had never heard anything so stupid in my whole life.  And, believe it or not, I actually got some solace from a book written by a rabbi - &quot;When Bad Things Happen to Good People&quot; - not so much the religious parts, but how basically anything can happen to any one at any time, and trying to make sense of tragic accidents is useless and will only make you crazy.  Which, I suppose, is a good description for many Xian beliefs...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When my infant son died at 4.5 months, the nun at the hospital told me flat out that god felt my pain, but he needed Sutter in heaven more than I needed him on earth, so I should take some comfort in that.  It was all I could do to not scream at her that I had never heard anything so stupid in my whole life.  And, believe it or not, I actually got some solace from a book written by a rabbi &#8211; &#8220;When Bad Things Happen to Good People&#8221; &#8211; not so much the religious parts, but how basically anything can happen to any one at any time, and trying to make sense of tragic accidents is useless and will only make you crazy.  Which, I suppose, is a good description for many Xian beliefs&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Carlie</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/10/23/ask-richard-relating-to-religious-people-at-times-of-grief/#comment-380598</link>
		<dc:creator>Carlie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Oct 2009 02:11:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=17498#comment-380598</guid>
		<description>I also struggled with this when I became an atheist, and have finally realized that now I have a more empathetic reaction. Saying they&#039;re in a better place, or in some cases &quot;Maybe they were a Christian and you just didn&#039;t know&quot; to religious zealots who had a nonbelieving relative die, is just pushing the grief away. Better to cry with them, or hold them when they cry, or just quietly do their dishes and put the casserole in the oven.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also struggled with this when I became an atheist, and have finally realized that now I have a more empathetic reaction. Saying they&#8217;re in a better place, or in some cases &#8220;Maybe they were a Christian and you just didn&#8217;t know&#8221; to religious zealots who had a nonbelieving relative die, is just pushing the grief away. Better to cry with them, or hold them when they cry, or just quietly do their dishes and put the casserole in the oven.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anonymouse</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/10/23/ask-richard-relating-to-religious-people-at-times-of-grief/#comment-380294</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymouse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Oct 2009 14:36:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=17498#comment-380294</guid>
		<description>I wanted to extend my condolences to those who have lost loved ones.

I think it&#039;s really wrong of people to hassle someone if they don&#039;t share the &quot;gone to a better place&quot; view. In ways, it&#039;s really sick that someone would even say that unless the person was in pain/terminally sick.

In any case, people grieve in their own way and no one should be socially or otherwise punished for not having religious dogma. To us, the person SIMPLY DID NOT go somewhere better.
Grief doesn&#039;t have one face. Some people cry and cry, some internalize everything, some are numb for a very long time.

 The thing is, you can&#039;t do anything to help the source of the situation. The person is gone. You CAN, however, let them know that you are there to listen. If you live close by, offer to take care of any kids involved for a few hours, cook them a meal they can reheat (like pasta/soup) or even offer to do some laundry for them. You can also respect the memory of the person who has died. Talk about some good things about them.

Another note-
One thing people often dismiss is the pain involved with the loss of a pet, or a miscarriage. My friend had a late miscarriage a few years ago and I felt helpless to help her. It was an excruciating part of her life. There was nothing I could do to help. She wanted a child badly and it didn&#039;t work out at that time (she has 2 beautiful children, the second of which was conceived after the miscarriage). What I did do was try to be there for her.
As far as pets go, most people spend time with their pets more than their parents, siblings, or other family members. The pain felt when a pet dies for some (including myself) is just as bad as a person. 

I guess the point of my post is to reiterate that just as many atheists and agnostics are sensitive and empathetic as their religious counterparts. Actually DOING something for someone, I feel, is better than praying for comfort for them. It&#039;s best to just be there for one another, and you don&#039;t need religion for that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wanted to extend my condolences to those who have lost loved ones.</p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s really wrong of people to hassle someone if they don&#8217;t share the &#8220;gone to a better place&#8221; view. In ways, it&#8217;s really sick that someone would even say that unless the person was in pain/terminally sick.</p>
<p>In any case, people grieve in their own way and no one should be socially or otherwise punished for not having religious dogma. To us, the person SIMPLY DID NOT go somewhere better.<br />
Grief doesn&#8217;t have one face. Some people cry and cry, some internalize everything, some are numb for a very long time.</p>
<p> The thing is, you can&#8217;t do anything to help the source of the situation. The person is gone. You CAN, however, let them know that you are there to listen. If you live close by, offer to take care of any kids involved for a few hours, cook them a meal they can reheat (like pasta/soup) or even offer to do some laundry for them. You can also respect the memory of the person who has died. Talk about some good things about them.</p>
<p>Another note-<br />
One thing people often dismiss is the pain involved with the loss of a pet, or a miscarriage. My friend had a late miscarriage a few years ago and I felt helpless to help her. It was an excruciating part of her life. There was nothing I could do to help. She wanted a child badly and it didn&#8217;t work out at that time (she has 2 beautiful children, the second of which was conceived after the miscarriage). What I did do was try to be there for her.<br />
As far as pets go, most people spend time with their pets more than their parents, siblings, or other family members. The pain felt when a pet dies for some (including myself) is just as bad as a person. </p>
<p>I guess the point of my post is to reiterate that just as many atheists and agnostics are sensitive and empathetic as their religious counterparts. Actually DOING something for someone, I feel, is better than praying for comfort for them. It&#8217;s best to just be there for one another, and you don&#8217;t need religion for that.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: K</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/10/23/ask-richard-relating-to-religious-people-at-times-of-grief/#comment-380185</link>
		<dc:creator>K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Oct 2009 09:17:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=17498#comment-380185</guid>
		<description>What&#039;s even more awkward is being a Mormon and bringing your non-Mormon friends to your mother&#039;s Mormon funeral.

&quot;Why is she dressed up like a bride?&quot;

Um... how to explain...

What gets me is when someone asks me to pray for them, whether they&#039;re facing illness, hard times, or a loss. What to say? I have a friend who insists I can pray for her even though I&#039;m an atheist. I&#039;ve had to sit her down and say, &quot;Look, I know you&#039;re going through hard times right now. But it&#039;s frankly insulting to me that you insist I pray for you when you know I&#039;m an atheist. I am here for you and offer my shoulder to cry on and whatever you need, just say it. But I will not promise to pray for you. It is not helpful when I can spend that time doing something for you instead. Even if it&#039;s just sitting here listening to you. That is something I can do for you, and it would be dishonest of me to promise something I cannot keep.&quot;

I rather like the idea of doing some kind of work in honor of the deceased. In fact, think I&#039;ll put that in my will, to have my family do some kind of service work in my name whenever I die.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What&#8217;s even more awkward is being a Mormon and bringing your non-Mormon friends to your mother&#8217;s Mormon funeral.</p>
<p>&#8220;Why is she dressed up like a bride?&#8221;</p>
<p>Um&#8230; how to explain&#8230;</p>
<p>What gets me is when someone asks me to pray for them, whether they&#8217;re facing illness, hard times, or a loss. What to say? I have a friend who insists I can pray for her even though I&#8217;m an atheist. I&#8217;ve had to sit her down and say, &#8220;Look, I know you&#8217;re going through hard times right now. But it&#8217;s frankly insulting to me that you insist I pray for you when you know I&#8217;m an atheist. I am here for you and offer my shoulder to cry on and whatever you need, just say it. But I will not promise to pray for you. It is not helpful when I can spend that time doing something for you instead. Even if it&#8217;s just sitting here listening to you. That is something I can do for you, and it would be dishonest of me to promise something I cannot keep.&#8221;</p>
<p>I rather like the idea of doing some kind of work in honor of the deceased. In fact, think I&#8217;ll put that in my will, to have my family do some kind of service work in my name whenever I die.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/10/23/ask-richard-relating-to-religious-people-at-times-of-grief/#comment-380104</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Oct 2009 05:37:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=17498#comment-380104</guid>
		<description>After several close relatives died in the past few years, I am reminded by what a friend said: &quot;the real pain begins when the phone calls and consolations end.&quot;  People all too often focus on the deceased and not on the people who live on with the intense pain and loss.  Sure, they need help and support through the funeral and shortly after, but then when they are most alone and lonely, all the friends and family seem so far away.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After several close relatives died in the past few years, I am reminded by what a friend said: &#8220;the real pain begins when the phone calls and consolations end.&#8221;  People all too often focus on the deceased and not on the people who live on with the intense pain and loss.  Sure, they need help and support through the funeral and shortly after, but then when they are most alone and lonely, all the friends and family seem so far away.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: muggle</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/10/23/ask-richard-relating-to-religious-people-at-times-of-grief/#comment-380079</link>
		<dc:creator>muggle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Oct 2009 04:48:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=17498#comment-380079</guid>
		<description>Hmmm, Judith, interesting.  Honestly don&#039;t know if I&#039;ve been guilty of that or not.  Some strange psychology there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmm, Judith, interesting.  Honestly don&#8217;t know if I&#8217;ve been guilty of that or not.  Some strange psychology there.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Judith Bandsma</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/10/23/ask-richard-relating-to-religious-people-at-times-of-grief/#comment-379892</link>
		<dc:creator>Judith Bandsma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 21:10:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=17498#comment-379892</guid>
		<description>On the question of what you can do...use the person&#039;s name. The worst part of the death of someone close to you is that people stop using the person&#039;s name. It&#039;s like they&#039;re being erased and will soon be forgotten.

The deceased is referred to as &#039;your relation&#039;, &#039;your wife&#039;, &#039;your husband&#039;, &#039;your child&#039;. But seldom as &#039;George&#039;, &#039;Martha&#039;, &#039;David&#039;, &#039;Julie&#039;. 

There&#039;s more comfort in knowing the dead person&#039;s name is not forgotten than in the thought that &#039;he/she is in a better place&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the question of what you can do&#8230;use the person&#8217;s name. The worst part of the death of someone close to you is that people stop using the person&#8217;s name. It&#8217;s like they&#8217;re being erased and will soon be forgotten.</p>
<p>The deceased is referred to as &#8216;your relation&#8217;, &#8216;your wife&#8217;, &#8216;your husband&#8217;, &#8216;your child&#8217;. But seldom as &#8216;George&#8217;, &#8216;Martha&#8217;, &#8216;David&#8217;, &#8216;Julie&#8217;. </p>
<p>There&#8217;s more comfort in knowing the dead person&#8217;s name is not forgotten than in the thought that &#8216;he/she is in a better place&#8217;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Addressing Religious Friends&#8217; Griefs &#171; Camels With Hammers</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/10/23/ask-richard-relating-to-religious-people-at-times-of-grief/#comment-379876</link>
		<dc:creator>Addressing Religious Friends&#8217; Griefs &#171; Camels With Hammers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 20:39:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=17498#comment-379876</guid>
		<description>[...] His advice in full is here. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] His advice in full is here. [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Alek</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/10/23/ask-richard-relating-to-religious-people-at-times-of-grief/#comment-379853</link>
		<dc:creator>Alek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 19:25:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=17498#comment-379853</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a new reader but I&#039;m already liking Richard&#039;s thoughtful responses.  It&#039;s like he&#039;s unencumbered by having to conform his answers to some dogma, or something...

I go back and forth between being a &quot;soft&quot; atheist (&quot;Live and let live&quot;) and a &quot;hard&quot; atheist, a la Harris or Hitchens.  Circumstances play an important role in choosing which to adopt in the moment.  Religion largely exists to provide answers to questions like, &quot;Where did Mom go when she died?&quot; -- with comforting answers like, &quot;To Heaven, where she&#039;ll be chillin with God and Jesus for eternity, it&#039;ll be awesome and you&#039;ll get to go too.&quot;  The religious define themselves by how they answer The Big Questions, and while we could easily mock them for their dopey answers, we need to remember that they&#039;re human beings too, grieving and mourning, and to hit them while they&#039;re most vulnerable would be cruel.  

We should also remember that they&#039;re all atheists-in-waiting, and their times will come...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a new reader but I&#8217;m already liking Richard&#8217;s thoughtful responses.  It&#8217;s like he&#8217;s unencumbered by having to conform his answers to some dogma, or something&#8230;</p>
<p>I go back and forth between being a &#8220;soft&#8221; atheist (&#8220;Live and let live&#8221;) and a &#8220;hard&#8221; atheist, a la Harris or Hitchens.  Circumstances play an important role in choosing which to adopt in the moment.  Religion largely exists to provide answers to questions like, &#8220;Where did Mom go when she died?&#8221; &#8212; with comforting answers like, &#8220;To Heaven, where she&#8217;ll be chillin with God and Jesus for eternity, it&#8217;ll be awesome and you&#8217;ll get to go too.&#8221;  The religious define themselves by how they answer The Big Questions, and while we could easily mock them for their dopey answers, we need to remember that they&#8217;re human beings too, grieving and mourning, and to hit them while they&#8217;re most vulnerable would be cruel.  </p>
<p>We should also remember that they&#8217;re all atheists-in-waiting, and their times will come&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Polly</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/10/23/ask-richard-relating-to-religious-people-at-times-of-grief/#comment-379823</link>
		<dc:creator>Polly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 18:38:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=17498#comment-379823</guid>
		<description>My wife who is a believer could barely tolerate all the religious bromides she received when her mother died and then, 2 years later, her grandmother died. She didn&#039;t want to hear people telling her that she&#039;s in a better place even though &lt;i&gt;she herself belived that, too.&lt;/i&gt;
It&#039;s just not helpful to the grieving.

Added to that were some of her incredibly annoying relatives who faced the deaths with outright denial that anything bad really happened. After all, these women were now in heaven. Gag me with a fucking spoon.
I, myself, was rather annoyed with 2 who could NOT shut up for 2 seconds about Jesus and who were expressing their comfort that, yes, indeed, grandma was &quot;saved&quot; ascertained based on recent conversations.
WTF? STFU!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My wife who is a believer could barely tolerate all the religious bromides she received when her mother died and then, 2 years later, her grandmother died. She didn&#8217;t want to hear people telling her that she&#8217;s in a better place even though <i>she herself belived that, too.</i><br />
It&#8217;s just not helpful to the grieving.</p>
<p>Added to that were some of her incredibly annoying relatives who faced the deaths with outright denial that anything bad really happened. After all, these women were now in heaven. Gag me with a fucking spoon.<br />
I, myself, was rather annoyed with 2 who could NOT shut up for 2 seconds about Jesus and who were expressing their comfort that, yes, indeed, grandma was &#8220;saved&#8221; ascertained based on recent conversations.<br />
WTF? STFU!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

<!-- Performance optimized by W3 Total Cache. Learn more: http://www.w3-edge.com/wordpress-plugins/

Minified using disk: basic (User agent is rejected)
Page Caching using disk: enhanced (User agent is rejected)
Database Caching using disk: basic
Object Caching 302/310 objects using disk: basic
Content Delivery Network via Amazon Web Services: S3: wp.patheos.com.s3.amazonaws.com (user agent is rejected)

Served from: www.patheos.com @ 2012-02-14 12:36:19 -->
