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	<title>Comments on: Stop &#8220;Working on Your Relationship with Jesus&#8221;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/10/26/stop-working-on-your-relationship-with-jesus/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/10/26/stop-working-on-your-relationship-with-jesus/</link>
	<description>by Hemant Mehta</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 28 May 2012 09:19:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/10/26/stop-working-on-your-relationship-with-jesus/#comment-387116</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Oct 2009 14:42:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=17606#comment-387116</guid>
		<description>keddaw said...

&lt;blockquote&gt;Am I the only one that sees the huge logical flaw in this automatic tipping?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The flaw is in your reasoning.

If you choose to patronize an establishment where you have a waiter, your minimum obligation is to inform the waiter that you will not be tipping and will not be using his services. Doing otherwise is to lie to him. He&#039;s doing his job under the assumption that you will pay him.

His assumption is reasonable because everyone knows waiters make their living through tips. That&#039;s the nature of the job. Everyone, including you, knows that when you go to a restaurant that uses waiters, you are making the choice to use the waiter. That choice - on &lt;em&gt;your &lt;/em&gt;part - obligates you to pay him.

And you do seem to be the only one who doesn&#039;t see &lt;em&gt;that&lt;/em&gt;.

The only reasonable option besides tipping is to tell the waiter ahead of time that you won&#039;t be needing his services. That you will be placing the order yourself, getting the food yourself from the kitchen, and cleaning up after you are done.

If you want the waiter to do it and you don&#039;t pay him, you are stealing from him. And, again, you are the only one who doesn&#039;t see that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>keddaw said&#8230;</p>
<blockquote><p>Am I the only one that sees the huge logical flaw in this automatic tipping?</p></blockquote>
<p>The flaw is in your reasoning.</p>
<p>If you choose to patronize an establishment where you have a waiter, your minimum obligation is to inform the waiter that you will not be tipping and will not be using his services. Doing otherwise is to lie to him. He&#8217;s doing his job under the assumption that you will pay him.</p>
<p>His assumption is reasonable because everyone knows waiters make their living through tips. That&#8217;s the nature of the job. Everyone, including you, knows that when you go to a restaurant that uses waiters, you are making the choice to use the waiter. That choice &#8211; on <em>your </em>part &#8211; obligates you to pay him.</p>
<p>And you do seem to be the only one who doesn&#8217;t see <em>that</em>.</p>
<p>The only reasonable option besides tipping is to tell the waiter ahead of time that you won&#8217;t be needing his services. That you will be placing the order yourself, getting the food yourself from the kitchen, and cleaning up after you are done.</p>
<p>If you want the waiter to do it and you don&#8217;t pay him, you are stealing from him. And, again, you are the only one who doesn&#8217;t see that.</p>
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		<title>By: No commandment greater! &#124; Stolte Clan</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/10/26/stop-working-on-your-relationship-with-jesus/#comment-385902</link>
		<dc:creator>No commandment greater! &#124; Stolte Clan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 18:03:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=17606#comment-385902</guid>
		<description>[...] say that the Sunday church crowd is the worst crowd to serve. So, when I read this article on my usual interweb wanderings and was led to this article, I was embarrassed and at the same time [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] say that the Sunday church crowd is the worst crowd to serve. So, when I read this article on my usual interweb wanderings and was led to this article, I was embarrassed and at the same time [...]</p>
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		<title>By: A Mile of Bad Road</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/10/26/stop-working-on-your-relationship-with-jesus/#comment-384650</link>
		<dc:creator>A Mile of Bad Road</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 17:33:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=17606#comment-384650</guid>
		<description>Lousy stupid form!  I never said yes!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lousy stupid form!  I never said yes!</p>
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		<title>By: A Mile of Bad Road</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/10/26/stop-working-on-your-relationship-with-jesus/#comment-384638</link>
		<dc:creator>A Mile of Bad Road</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 17:27:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=17606#comment-384638</guid>
		<description>Like I said, selfishness.

Where, exactly, do you spoiled brats think the money that pays the waitstaff&#039;s wages comes from?  You think it appears out of thin friggin&#039; air?  No - it comes from customers.  That means that, yes, you simpering child, you ARE responsible for their wages.  Saying &quot;well, it&#039;s their fault for working in this job&quot; doesn&#039;t cut it - that&#039;s a steaming load of elitist classist bull and you should be rightfully called out for saying it.

You don&#039;t like having to tip? GET THE LAWS CHANGED so they can&#039;t be underpaid.  Over tiome, nobody will expect it anymore.

But until you get off your lasy, selfish ass and do so,</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like I said, selfishness.</p>
<p>Where, exactly, do you spoiled brats think the money that pays the waitstaff&#8217;s wages comes from?  You think it appears out of thin friggin&#8217; air?  No &#8211; it comes from customers.  That means that, yes, you simpering child, you ARE responsible for their wages.  Saying &#8220;well, it&#8217;s their fault for working in this job&#8221; doesn&#8217;t cut it &#8211; that&#8217;s a steaming load of elitist classist bull and you should be rightfully called out for saying it.</p>
<p>You don&#8217;t like having to tip? GET THE LAWS CHANGED so they can&#8217;t be underpaid.  Over tiome, nobody will expect it anymore.</p>
<p>But until you get off your lasy, selfish ass and do so,</p>
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		<title>By: A Mile of Bad Road</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/10/26/stop-working-on-your-relationship-with-jesus/#comment-384639</link>
		<dc:creator>A Mile of Bad Road</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 17:27:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=17606#comment-384639</guid>
		<description>Like I said, selfishness.

Where, exactly, do you spoiled brats think the money that pays the waitstaff&#039;s wages comes from?  You think it appears out of thin friggin&#039; air?  No - it comes from customers.  That means that, yes, you simpering child, you ARE responsible for their wages.  Saying &quot;well, it&#039;s their fault for working in this job&quot; doesn&#039;t cut it - that&#039;s a steaming load of elitist classist bull and you should be rightfully called out for saying it.

You don&#039;t like having to tip? GET THE LAWS CHANGED so they can&#039;t be underpaid.  Over tiome, nobody will expect it anymore.

But until you get off your lasy, selfish ass and do so,</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like I said, selfishness.</p>
<p>Where, exactly, do you spoiled brats think the money that pays the waitstaff&#8217;s wages comes from?  You think it appears out of thin friggin&#8217; air?  No &#8211; it comes from customers.  That means that, yes, you simpering child, you ARE responsible for their wages.  Saying &#8220;well, it&#8217;s their fault for working in this job&#8221; doesn&#8217;t cut it &#8211; that&#8217;s a steaming load of elitist classist bull and you should be rightfully called out for saying it.</p>
<p>You don&#8217;t like having to tip? GET THE LAWS CHANGED so they can&#8217;t be underpaid.  Over tiome, nobody will expect it anymore.</p>
<p>But until you get off your lasy, selfish ass and do so,</p>
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		<title>By: Tina St. Sebastian</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/10/26/stop-working-on-your-relationship-with-jesus/#comment-384606</link>
		<dc:creator>Tina St. Sebastian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 16:43:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=17606#comment-384606</guid>
		<description>Over here, service is included in the price. Much easier. Tipping is appreciated but not in any way expected or common. 

I used to work in a café, and one day we got a group of three American tourists. They had a few beers and whe it was time to pay, one of them asked me how much it was customary to tip in Iceland. I told him that we don&#039;t really do that. They were surprised, and asked me how much minimum wage was, what the average prices were for groceries, rent, et.c. When they left, each tipped me around twenty bucks (20$ would buy two beers at the time, but beer is friggin expensive here). That was nice. 
I then made the mistake of telling my boss, who said I could keep it &#039;this time&#039; and put up a tip jar on the counter. I never saw a dime out of that damn jar.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Over here, service is included in the price. Much easier. Tipping is appreciated but not in any way expected or common. </p>
<p>I used to work in a café, and one day we got a group of three American tourists. They had a few beers and whe it was time to pay, one of them asked me how much it was customary to tip in Iceland. I told him that we don&#8217;t really do that. They were surprised, and asked me how much minimum wage was, what the average prices were for groceries, rent, et.c. When they left, each tipped me around twenty bucks (20$ would buy two beers at the time, but beer is friggin expensive here). That was nice.<br />
I then made the mistake of telling my boss, who said I could keep it &#8216;this time&#8217; and put up a tip jar on the counter. I never saw a dime out of that damn jar.</p>
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		<title>By: Flah</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/10/26/stop-working-on-your-relationship-with-jesus/#comment-384458</link>
		<dc:creator>Flah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 14:17:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=17606#comment-384458</guid>
		<description>@ Stoat100:

Your mention of &quot;rapture ready&quot; intrigued me, so I checked their website.  Harrowing experience?  You&#039;re too kind, I think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Stoat100:</p>
<p>Your mention of &#8220;rapture ready&#8221; intrigued me, so I checked their website.  Harrowing experience?  You&#8217;re too kind, I think.</p>
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		<title>By: keddaw</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/10/26/stop-working-on-your-relationship-with-jesus/#comment-384349</link>
		<dc:creator>keddaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 12:05:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=17606#comment-384349</guid>
		<description>@Seedlet
&lt;blockquote&gt;That their job pays minimum, or below minimum, wage is not my fault and neither is it my responsibility. &lt;/blockquote&gt;
I said it, albeit while arguing for the other side.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Seedlet</p>
<blockquote><p>That their job pays minimum, or below minimum, wage is not my fault and neither is it my responsibility. </p></blockquote>
<p>I said it, albeit while arguing for the other side.</p>
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		<title>By: Seedlet</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/10/26/stop-working-on-your-relationship-with-jesus/#comment-384136</link>
		<dc:creator>Seedlet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 03:53:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=17606#comment-384136</guid>
		<description>I didn&#039;t see this mentioned, but you do know that in a lot of states, waitstaff are allowed to be paid below minimum wage due to tips? Therefore, when you don&#039;t tip, you are depriving many of them of even making minimum wage. In other jobs, the cost of service IS included in the price, but not with waitstaff. I wish it wasn&#039;t that way and that they would get their fair share automatically, but they don&#039;t, so I always make sure to leave a nice tip. It&#039;s not extra, it&#039;s breaking even.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t see this mentioned, but you do know that in a lot of states, waitstaff are allowed to be paid below minimum wage due to tips? Therefore, when you don&#8217;t tip, you are depriving many of them of even making minimum wage. In other jobs, the cost of service IS included in the price, but not with waitstaff. I wish it wasn&#8217;t that way and that they would get their fair share automatically, but they don&#8217;t, so I always make sure to leave a nice tip. It&#8217;s not extra, it&#8217;s breaking even.</p>
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		<title>By: keddaw</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/10/26/stop-working-on-your-relationship-with-jesus/#comment-383479</link>
		<dc:creator>keddaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 18:09:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=17606#comment-383479</guid>
		<description>So we are discriminating against people who work for low price restaurants by giving them a percentage of the total bill, which is decided by the owner.

Surely, as we are paying for service, we should have a flat fee for a tip regardless if the meal was $20 or $200?

Am I the only one that sees the huge logical flaw in this automatic tipping?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So we are discriminating against people who work for low price restaurants by giving them a percentage of the total bill, which is decided by the owner.</p>
<p>Surely, as we are paying for service, we should have a flat fee for a tip regardless if the meal was $20 or $200?</p>
<p>Am I the only one that sees the huge logical flaw in this automatic tipping?</p>
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