You’re confusing morality with economics and self-interest. We also like to hump and eat other animals; it has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with Good and morality. These are cardinally different spheres.

>>Who in turn founded their systems on the accepted social systems of their culture.

See above. “What we (or they) do around here” has nothing whatsoever to do with Good and morality. (It is also highly contradictory after only 2 minutes comparison of our own and various “accepted social systems” in history: human sacrifice, slaves, hatred of Jews and others, etc., etc.)

>>It sometimes seems that Christians think that time began with their religion

Who are you calling a Christian? You seem to be amongst those preaching morality here, not me. Why are you, like a good Christian, so desperate for morality to be true???

…who in turn found their systems upon various gods, or god-like assumptions.

Who in turn founded their systems on the accepted social systems of their culture.

Honestly it sometimes seems that Christians think that time began with their religion rather than it being a relatively recent addition.

If you really are an atheist, have the courage to examine your definition of “good” and how that came to be what “good” is.

Solon’s logic confuses me.

I think he/she is saying that any Athiest who adheres to a “Golden Rule” or “10 commandments” view of what is “good” is not really an athiest.

Let’s flip the argument. I would conjecture that Biblical morality has its roots in a set of phenotypical behaviours, preferentially selected in our evolution as a herd animal.

Any gene (or set of genes) that said “kill everything you see with no regard to kinship or in-group status” has clearly been selected against.

I’m no zoologist, but I suspect many (most) mammalian species have some kind of “morality” that loosely follows some basic rules like “dont kill anyone in your in-group unless these is a good reason”

…who in turn found their systems upon various gods, or god-like assumptions.

There is no easy way out if you actually are an atheist.

Atheism is entirely neutral on questions of morality.

And that is the religious’ problem with atheism.

They don’t realise that while atheists do not derive their morality from atheism there is a vast library of great, and not so great, thinkers from which to pick and choose our morality.

Their problem is that becasue they define their morality in terms of their god they think those without gods must be without morality. They don’t realise that we get to pick and choose our morality from the greatest minds of history while they get to re-interpret the musings of some bronze age authors.

The question must be, “Can you have ‘Good’ without (belief in) God?”

If you really are an atheist, have the courage to examine your definition of “good” and how that came to be what “good” is.

Atheists unwittingly hiding Christian mythology behind their beliefs are not atheists.

(If confused, “being nice” is not “good” unless you proclaim it so. And why would you do that?)

Jesus teachings touch on social contracts with messages like love thy neighbour and do unto others… but I think this is largely lost in the mythology.

Can you be good without gods? I find it difficult to understand how you can be good with gods. God belief has an emphasis on rules based morality and self interest. This must be difficult to shake off when it is constantly reinforced by authority figures and the peer group.

Religiously based morality has been attacked thoroughly over the centuries. Karl Marx critiqued Hegel’s Philosophy of Right in the famous essay that compared religion to opium, an illusion that holds back the moral development of the people. Despite his politics I think he was right on target on this issue.

On the other hand atheism makes no claims to morality and offers no advice or structure for living a moral life. Atheism is entirely neutral on questions of morality. Anything moral decisions that come from a lack of belief are a byproduct of shaking off the superstitions of faith rather than a direct result of disbelief.

Are you a better person because you believe that you are being watched by a being who will reward or punish you after you die or are you a better person because you believe that this life is the only chance you get? I’m biased but I would more trust those who don’t claim to hear voices or have conversations with gods than those who do.

As humans, we generally want the optimal conditions in our social environment for progress, peaceful living, etc. Think about it: some of the most non-religious countries on an international scale are not chaotic battlefields. They have decreased crime rates and more desirable living conditions than the United States. Prominent atheists like Richard Dawkins and PZ Meyers are hardly anarchists.

Religious systems and ideals are not shielded from abuse. When a theist tries to sway me with an example of an “atheist dictatorship” (which is almost always a simplification of the actual history), I remind them of how many churches have abused their authority with events like the Inquisition. Furthermore, we can’t ignore the reality of a brutal theocracy.

Have you ever read any fiction by L. Neil Smith? If not, I recommend “The “Probability Broach.” I think you’d like it.

Good is generally based on the rules of the given society you adhere to, but you may not agree with another society’s rules, so I don’t think gods have anything to do with it.