Comments on: Should a Military Atheist Say the Pledge of Allegiance on Veteran’s Day?

By: Max

Max — Wed, 24 Aug 2011 13:58:00 +0000

the United States is not a christian nation….
1. there is no mention of God in the Constitution, our fundamental Law
2. a “creator” is mentioned only in the Declaration, but there it also says “Governments are instituted among men.” this only reflect a generic “deist” belief
3. in other congress approved texts a “christian” origin is denied:”As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.” (treaty of tripoli 1797)4. the founding fathers were explicit about that:”The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe in blood for centuries.” -James Madison”if it is true that the founders were, consciously or not, influenced by christianity, does not follow that they created a christian nation, as they were influenced just as much by secular thinkers of the 1600 and 1700s.More precisely they were deists for the most part, a very different thing from a practicing christian.the US as a christian nation is an ideological invention especially promoted during the cold war as a way to cement our differences compared to the “godless” USSR. it is not a mistake of history that the “nation under God” portion of the pledge was not there originally but only introduced during the Eisenhower presidency….

By: Scott

Scott — Mon, 12 Apr 2010 00:57:27 +0000

Atheist veteran here. I always skip over that part. If I’m feeling rebellious, I’ll drop my right hand then too. If I ever had a chance to say it solo, leading a crowd with a mic, I would say the godless version and watch them stumble like they always make me do. But generally, I’m against the socialist pledge period, and would rather not say it at all.

By: Nathan

Nathan — Sun, 13 Dec 2009 22:09:44 +0000

guerilla,

Religion is an implied belief system embraced by a group of people. It could be something that people are fanatical about. It can be secular or a belief that there is a God. Which does tend to create some pretty small factions in society depending entirely what they believe.

I am curious, how many times have you read the bible? How many of the stories can you name? You must be a learned individual to make such broad statements concerning the Bible. Here is one piece of knowledge you may have been misinformed about. The Bible is not just another book. It is multiple books penned by multiple authors many of which gave their lives for it through history. With the common subject, God and His love for His creation.

If you are refering to Christian little groups, what little groups are you refering to? Some of the churchs have tens of thousands of people attending the services.

Wild stories from some drunk. I don’t think so. Some of the storie have been used to change wild drunks into a new person. I have never heard a drunk with a bad headache tell such wonderful stories.

By: guerrilla

guerrilla — Sun, 13 Dec 2009 17:55:13 +0000

religion is just another way for people to be broken down into little groups. the bible is just another book with more wild stories from some drunk with a bangin ass headache.

By: Philip

Philip — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 22:56:14 +0000

Great perspective, thank you for your opinion.

By: Nathan Suddarth

Nathan Suddarth — Fri, 13 Nov 2009 19:38:22 +0000

Equality of what is to controversial in 2009?

By: teammarty

teammarty — Fri, 13 Nov 2009 15:20:46 +0000

Equality is too controversial in 2009.

By: Polly

Polly — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 18:08:57 +0000

@Nathan,

I wil leave off here, agreeing to disagree.
I am VERY familiar with the Christian message but I appreciate your concern.

N-Joy,
Polly

By: Nathan Suddarth

Nathan Suddarth — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 17:07:08 +0000

@Polly,

I appreciate your sincerety. I sense a true searching within you for truth. I agree you shouldn’t take anything at face value.

Many of the Christian symbols you see are symbols used by early Christians. The early church was persecuted. (We witness this in many different countries not so much here in the U.S. These symbols were many times used for protection so Christians could Identify each other. Unlike today it seems everyone wears a cross or has a fish on their car. The true meaning is being lost. Being used as ornaments. In other countries the wrong use of religous symbols could mean death.

I would disagree that the Christian influence is not in our founding documents. In every fabric the thread is woven into creates the whole. If the words are the thread and the document is the fabric then we must look at where the thread came from and what it is. The writers and the lives they lived these made up the thread. Where they perfect? The answer is no. Did many of them have a faith in God? I believe history shows that most (not all) were.

As for your final thought. A facade? I think not. I will answer your thought after a few questions.
Has anyone every told That God loves you? That He desires a relationship with you? That Jesus died on the cross for you? If you ask Him to forgive you He will change your life. He will forgive the wrong you have done in life and give you the strength to forgive those who have wronged you. He will heal the pains of life. He will change your life and show you a truth you have never seen before. I know this to be true. I have seen the world from your side. We aren’t born Christians. I came to God in my need and my very thinking was changed. That John 3:16 sign you see at sporting events it has meaning. It is a bible verse that says: “For God so loved the world He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever beliveth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life”. I have seen where you are coming from, but I question if you can see where I am coming from, If you have never become a real Christian. Not by going to church, but by allowing God to change your life. A changed life is how you tell a real Christian from a church goer.
Sitting in a garage can’t make you into a car. Sitting in a church can’t make you into a Christian.
In answer to your facade statement. I believe the bible to be prophetic. That means it does tell certain future truths.
The bible tells us the world will get worse and worse. The hearts of man will be turned hard. Love will turn cold. Men will start believing lies and go away from the truth. A facade maybe, What if its the truth. Then you lose all. I can’t make you believe in God. I only can hope you will someday seek Him with all your heart while He may be found. I also hope to meet you in Heaven. You will never forget our dialogue thru your life it will be brought back to your rememberance.

Polly, I thank you for this meeting.
I will pray to God on your behalf that He will help you to seek and find the truth and the truth will set you free.

Nathan

By: Polly

Polly — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 22:13:02 +0000

@Nathan,

Looking at those things you listed I would almost agree with you. Almost. But, having read some of the foudning fathers’ ideas about god and Christianity, I just can’t take it at face-value.

Many of these things strike me as mere ornamentation, cultural adornment. Even choosing the Christian symbolism is being selective. I could just as easily conclude we were a nation of Masons by the symbols used.

I don’t find the prayers and inscriptions and speeches nearly as compelling as the Constitution and the law and even some of the writings of the founding fathers themselves. And when I look for substantive signs of Christianity in our system – separate powers, term limits, democracy as opposed to a divinely ordained king or clerical ruler – I see no contribution from Christianity. It’s really all Greek and pre-Christian Roman.

I would put it to you that we are no longer “on that path”, as you noted, perhaps because the nation wasn’t really set up that way to begin with. As time and modes change, the facade just continues to fall away.