Comments on: Ask Richard: An Atheist Considering Becoming An Anglican Minister

By: anon

anon — Mon, 24 Jan 2011 00:28:55 +0000

As as student and friend of his i should say that actually Bruce is by no means an atheist. He merely likes to be confusing; to call him open about anything philosophical is a very big misnomer.

By: nonnamuss

nonnamuss — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 18:09:50 +0000

As I understand it, Rev Bruce Kinsey, who was the Anglican chaplain at Downing College, Cambridge a few years ago (and famously got in trouble for his god@ email address) is openly an atheist.

By: no longer conflicted

no longer conflicted — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 13:55:27 +0000

Again, I’m impressed by how people aren’t being harsh or judgemental about my dilemma. Thanks! I wrote that letter at a time when I’d been a bit down in my life and an Anglican vicar who’s an old friend of mine helped me out a lot, without referring to God at all. I just want to be able to do the same for somebody else in that situation. So, thanks for the help, I’ll definitely consider UU (if it is open to atheists) or Humanism and training as a psychotherapist or counselor. Richard, you’re right about the cognitive dissonance I’d feel having to tell people comforting stories about heaven without believing any of it myself. I wouldn’t be able to reconcile that and I’d be lying to myself if I tried to. I guess my idea of changing things from the inside was a bit too grand an ambition as well! Thanks for the advice, and for running this column.

Best Wishes all,

By: Kaylya

Kaylya — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 13:15:54 +0000

I grew up attending the Anglican Church in Canada. My mom is very active in her church, and I've got nothing but respect for the various Anglican ministers I know. She's more of the Spong / Armstrong type of Christian, and she's on the pro gay-marriage side, and in a fairly liberal diocese (New Westminster, aka Vancouver area). In the one sense, it's got very liberal elements to it, at least in Canada and the US. There's a lot of conflict in the Church because of those liberal elements and the more conservative elements within the same country; and with the more conservative elements in places like Africa. On the other hand, there's a lot of formal liturgy that goes on in the service. At least at the churches I've been to, the Nicene Creed is recited every single service. UU seems like an excellent idea, and if you're in Canada or the UK it looks fairly established, with Australia and NZ having just a handful of congregations.

By: Claudia

Claudia — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 12:10:44 +0000

Count me in the number of people who think you should not abandon your desire to become a minister-like person, but think you should look outside the Anglicans. I admit I don’t know enough about UU doctrine (if there is such a thing) to be sure, but I’d want to be sure the Unitarian Universalists allow explicit non-believers into their ministry. That is to say that no matter how soft-focus and “original life force” and metaphoric god-talk gets, I don’t think it’s an irrelevant question at all whether at the core of your belief system is supernatural or rational in origin.

If a fully atheist minister can feel comfortable and completely honest in a UU church, then fantastic. Otherwise I think Humanism would be the best place for an atheist seeking the job he describes. Of course the congregated Humanist community is even smaller than the UU community, so obviously he could only go that route if there was some organized Humanist community near him.

By: dantresomi

dantresomi — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 11:43:28 +0000

man everyone always gives great advice.

To be honest, like theists say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions (we need to come up with a better line) and this is the only place I see this going (no pun intended). It just reeks of trouble.

It’s funny, I never heard anyone actually attempting to to this but i know a gang of people who go to church because of the social networks and support they received. outside of the church, many find it difficult to find this sort of support (which explains why so many people stay in churches that preach racism, sexism, homophobia, and anti intellectualism).

there are several other ways to help people and the church isn’t the only place for that.

By: conflicted

conflicted — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 09:39:29 +0000

Dear all,

Thank you for all your helpful comments (especially Richard!). I have given the matter a lot of thought since I emailed Richard with that letter. I think Richard is right about how trying to be Anglican (the church I was raised in) would cause ethical and practical problems.

I have since switched my course at the Divinity School to a Psychology of Religion MA, and I may well end up training as a counselor. I am interested in looking into UU membership, too, so we’ll see what the future holds!

Thanks again,

By: Lagunatic

Lagunatic — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 03:19:57 +0000

http://www.celebrantinstitute.org/
Why not do something like this?

That way, you can be there for people when they need you, but you can do it in a non-denom/relgious way.

I’m actually considering this for myself – of course, I’ll have to figure out a way of NOT starting every ceremony with a joke that begins, “So, a priest, a rabbi and a hooker walk into a bar…..”

Everyone has great answers. I hope you update us as to what you eventually decide.

By: Erp

Erp — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 02:23:22 +0000

Some Anglicans get quite close to atheistic, Spong and Holloway are two examples (Holloway even wrote a book called “Godless Morality”).
However both started out far more conventional.
The Anglican churches also have their fair share of conservatives (and a battle royal going on right now on which direction to go).

One key question is which country? The UUA is pretty much in the US but the Episcopalians are what mainstream Anglicans are called in the US so it doesn’t sound like the Conflicted is in the US.

By: MH

MH — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 01:08:46 +0000

Being a UU minister would be a foolproof as they don’t have a creed.

However, Bishop John Shelby Spong is writing books claiming theism is dead. So the Anglicans are pretty far left too.