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	<title>Comments on: Georgia Town Debates Saying No to &#8220;So Help Me God&#8221;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/11/25/georgia-town-debates-saying-no-to-so-help-me-god/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/11/25/georgia-town-debates-saying-no-to-so-help-me-god/</link>
	<description>by Hemant Mehta</description>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/11/25/georgia-town-debates-saying-no-to-so-help-me-god/#comment-401793</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 11:06:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=18630#comment-401793</guid>
		<description>Perjury?

Would an atheist police officer with a shred of integrity even take such an oath if those specific words were required to be spoken?

But in my own personal experience, police officers and integrity are not exactly synonymous.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perjury?</p>
<p>Would an atheist police officer with a shred of integrity even take such an oath if those specific words were required to be spoken?</p>
<p>But in my own personal experience, police officers and integrity are not exactly synonymous.</p>
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		<title>By: muggle</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/11/25/georgia-town-debates-saying-no-to-so-help-me-god/#comment-401609</link>
		<dc:creator>muggle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 00:53:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=18630#comment-401609</guid>
		<description>On the up side, the question was asked.  On the down side, it was answered incorrectly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the up side, the question was asked.  On the down side, it was answered incorrectly.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike K</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/11/25/georgia-town-debates-saying-no-to-so-help-me-god/#comment-401225</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 01:30:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=18630#comment-401225</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Of course, if he said “I don’t care if the person is a Jew…” his titles would likely have been stripped before you finished the article&lt;/blockquote&gt;

As an atheist who grew up in Marietta and still lives in Cobb, I wouldn&#039;t be too sure about the speed of said stripping.  Don&#039;t forget these are some of the same idiots who wanted to keep the stickers on the science books.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Of course, if he said “I don’t care if the person is a Jew…” his titles would likely have been stripped before you finished the article</p></blockquote>
<p>As an atheist who grew up in Marietta and still lives in Cobb, I wouldn&#8217;t be too sure about the speed of said stripping.  Don&#8217;t forget these are some of the same idiots who wanted to keep the stickers on the science books.</p>
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		<title>By: Joffan</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/11/25/georgia-town-debates-saying-no-to-so-help-me-god/#comment-401064</link>
		<dc:creator>Joffan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 19:31:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=18630#comment-401064</guid>
		<description>If they want four substitute words, I suggest:
&quot;I pledge my word&quot;
&quot;so I solemnly promise&quot;
&quot;pledged in public witness&quot;
&quot;tell me if I fail&quot; (OK this is five)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If they want four substitute words, I suggest:<br />
&#8220;I pledge my word&#8221;<br />
&#8220;so I solemnly promise&#8221;<br />
&#8220;pledged in public witness&#8221;<br />
&#8220;tell me if I fail&#8221; (OK this is five)</p>
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		<title>By: Luther</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/11/25/georgia-town-debates-saying-no-to-so-help-me-god/#comment-401031</link>
		<dc:creator>Luther</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 18:07:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=18630#comment-401031</guid>
		<description>In my state we have two forms of such oaths, but usually you have to request it.  Recently I was sworn as an election official and requested the godless version.  I wondered how many non-religious would ask.

Shortly after I sworn in four other officials. I combined both versions keeping the two religious portions, anding with them the two godless portions.

I&#039;m glad I did both things.  Yet, I will always wonder if the two people who know which oath I took will hold me in a higher or lower light. If one of them will use that information in some way with an intent to reduce my reputation.  Being in integrity and the potential upsides are worth it to me.  But clearly there are reasons for people to be concerned with outing themselves.

Should I trust a godless person who takes the godfull oath?  Better to do both together.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my state we have two forms of such oaths, but usually you have to request it.  Recently I was sworn as an election official and requested the godless version.  I wondered how many non-religious would ask.</p>
<p>Shortly after I sworn in four other officials. I combined both versions keeping the two religious portions, anding with them the two godless portions.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m glad I did both things.  Yet, I will always wonder if the two people who know which oath I took will hold me in a higher or lower light. If one of them will use that information in some way with an intent to reduce my reputation.  Being in integrity and the potential upsides are worth it to me.  But clearly there are reasons for people to be concerned with outing themselves.</p>
<p>Should I trust a godless person who takes the godfull oath?  Better to do both together.</p>
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		<title>By: Spurs Fan</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/11/25/georgia-town-debates-saying-no-to-so-help-me-god/#comment-401012</link>
		<dc:creator>Spurs Fan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 17:30:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=18630#comment-401012</guid>
		<description>Even when I was a Christian, I hated the &quot;Christian nation&quot; bullshit.  I always made the argument that by linking my faith with the government approval or sanction it became watered-down as everyone would have to abide by certain aspects of my beliefs even if they didn&#039;t want to.  Isn&#039;t any faith more pure if it is not sanctioned by a government?  

It seems that future lawsuit might be successful-if a person is otherwise fully-qualified to a police officer (we would know if that was true by the swearing-in), this would appear to be a violation of the free-excercise clause of the 1st amendment (person not being hired directly based on a religious belief or lack thereof).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even when I was a Christian, I hated the &#8220;Christian nation&#8221; bullshit.  I always made the argument that by linking my faith with the government approval or sanction it became watered-down as everyone would have to abide by certain aspects of my beliefs even if they didn&#8217;t want to.  Isn&#8217;t any faith more pure if it is not sanctioned by a government?  </p>
<p>It seems that future lawsuit might be successful-if a person is otherwise fully-qualified to a police officer (we would know if that was true by the swearing-in), this would appear to be a violation of the free-excercise clause of the 1st amendment (person not being hired directly based on a religious belief or lack thereof).</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Hasbrouck</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/11/25/georgia-town-debates-saying-no-to-so-help-me-god/#comment-401009</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Hasbrouck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 17:26:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=18630#comment-401009</guid>
		<description>Back when I was a child growing up in a Christian home, I remember being taught that CHRISTIANS should never &#039;swear to God&#039; in any kind of oath. Doing to was considered very very bad for some unfathomable reason. 

When I asked around later on as an adult, I found that this mindset wasn&#039;t entirely uncommon; many Christians consider &#039;swearing to God&#039; as being somehow akin to taking the lord&#039;s name in vain.

In light of this, taking &#039;so help me God&#039; out of the oath wouldn&#039;t just be a token gesture to us non-religious (as well as being the correct observance of separation of Church and State), there are plenty of religious people who would be relieved by the change as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Back when I was a child growing up in a Christian home, I remember being taught that CHRISTIANS should never &#8216;swear to God&#8217; in any kind of oath. Doing to was considered very very bad for some unfathomable reason. </p>
<p>When I asked around later on as an adult, I found that this mindset wasn&#8217;t entirely uncommon; many Christians consider &#8216;swearing to God&#8217; as being somehow akin to taking the lord&#8217;s name in vain.</p>
<p>In light of this, taking &#8216;so help me God&#8217; out of the oath wouldn&#8217;t just be a token gesture to us non-religious (as well as being the correct observance of separation of Church and State), there are plenty of religious people who would be relieved by the change as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonas</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/11/25/georgia-town-debates-saying-no-to-so-help-me-god/#comment-401006</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 17:22:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=18630#comment-401006</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s a shame they didn&#039;t have the foresight to modify the Oath, before an individual would need to make a stand against it. Aren&#039;t there other religions (Quaker etc) that might object to the phrase?

Is the Oath given to a Group, like it is when I was at Jury Duty, or individually? It&#039;s tough to stand out in a group, for such a small thing. Some cops might see it as minor, and meaningless.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s a shame they didn&#8217;t have the foresight to modify the Oath, before an individual would need to make a stand against it. Aren&#8217;t there other religions (Quaker etc) that might object to the phrase?</p>
<p>Is the Oath given to a Group, like it is when I was at Jury Duty, or individually? It&#8217;s tough to stand out in a group, for such a small thing. Some cops might see it as minor, and meaningless.</p>
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		<title>By: JulietEcho</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/11/25/georgia-town-debates-saying-no-to-so-help-me-god/#comment-401002</link>
		<dc:creator>JulietEcho</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 17:02:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=18630#comment-401002</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s a good sign that some people were anticipating a problem before an actual atheist/agnostic formally objected.

It&#039;s a bad sign that they opted to stick with the problematic exclusivity and make others do the difficult job of forcing a change later on.

Some instances of god-mentioning in oaths are the result of well-meaning ignorance, but in this case, the people involved are well aware that they&#039;re being exclusive (illegally, at that) and are giving a big, &quot;screw you&quot; to the non-religious.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s a good sign that some people were anticipating a problem before an actual atheist/agnostic formally objected.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a bad sign that they opted to stick with the problematic exclusivity and make others do the difficult job of forcing a change later on.</p>
<p>Some instances of god-mentioning in oaths are the result of well-meaning ignorance, but in this case, the people involved are well aware that they&#8217;re being exclusive (illegally, at that) and are giving a big, &#8220;screw you&#8221; to the non-religious.</p>
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		<title>By: MaleficVTwin</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/11/25/georgia-town-debates-saying-no-to-so-help-me-god/#comment-400996</link>
		<dc:creator>MaleficVTwin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 16:40:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=18630#comment-400996</guid>
		<description>Wasn&#039;t there a post here a while back about this, and the woman was able to say &#039;on my honor&#039; instead? 

Fully agree on the &#039;Christian Nation&#039; crap, I bristle every time I hear it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wasn&#8217;t there a post here a while back about this, and the woman was able to say &#8216;on my honor&#8217; instead? </p>
<p>Fully agree on the &#8216;Christian Nation&#8217; crap, I bristle every time I hear it.</p>
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