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	<title>Comments on: Ask Richard: A Biologist Silent in the Face of Her Uncle’s Teaching Against Evolution</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/11/27/ask-richard-biologist-silent-in-the-face-of-her-uncle%e2%80%99s-teaching-against-evolution/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/11/27/ask-richard-biologist-silent-in-the-face-of-her-uncle%e2%80%99s-teaching-against-evolution/</link>
	<description>by Hemant Mehta</description>
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		<title>By: Linda</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/11/27/ask-richard-biologist-silent-in-the-face-of-her-uncle%e2%80%99s-teaching-against-evolution/#comment-403309</link>
		<dc:creator>Linda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 21:19:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=18694#comment-403309</guid>
		<description>Leslie,

I don&#039;t think you&#039;re giving the children enough credit.  I think they can learn to think critically on their own when given the option and the information to do so.  Regardless of what&#039;s preached to them in Sunday school, they are likely to be exposed to other viewpoints in school, friends, literature, media, etc.  

Instead of trying to silence people like your uncle, how about making sure that we do all we can to teach the kids &quot;how&quot; to think, rather than &quot;what&quot; to think or what &lt;em&gt;not&lt;/em&gt; to think?

If we pay close attention, there are so many opportunities for each of us to make a small difference.   Many of us have a surprisingly large circle of influence, if we just look around.   Just as Richard suggested, I think a better strategy would be to come up with creative ways to take advantage of those opportunities to plant seeds in the minds of as many kids as possible to allow them to think for themselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Leslie,</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think you&#8217;re giving the children enough credit.  I think they can learn to think critically on their own when given the option and the information to do so.  Regardless of what&#8217;s preached to them in Sunday school, they are likely to be exposed to other viewpoints in school, friends, literature, media, etc.  </p>
<p>Instead of trying to silence people like your uncle, how about making sure that we do all we can to teach the kids &#8220;how&#8221; to think, rather than &#8220;what&#8221; to think or what <em>not</em> to think?</p>
<p>If we pay close attention, there are so many opportunities for each of us to make a small difference.   Many of us have a surprisingly large circle of influence, if we just look around.   Just as Richard suggested, I think a better strategy would be to come up with creative ways to take advantage of those opportunities to plant seeds in the minds of as many kids as possible to allow them to think for themselves.</p>
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		<title>By: DGKnipfer</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/11/27/ask-richard-biologist-silent-in-the-face-of-her-uncle%e2%80%99s-teaching-against-evolution/#comment-403251</link>
		<dc:creator>DGKnipfer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 18:37:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=18694#comment-403251</guid>
		<description>Leslie and Richard,
I think we&#039;re missing an opportunity here.  Leslie, you should point out to your Uncle that even mentioning evolution to a bunch of curious and impressionable young children may cause one or two of them to go looking it up on the internet.  If they do that they might be lead away from their faith by what they find.  Then you can suggest that he stick to preaching scripture in Sunday school as a way to protect the poor little children from evolution, without acknowledging your atheist belief, which might at least get him to quit preaching about how evil he believes evolution is.  It has the advantage of being honest and true while still being an effort to get him to not do what he’s doing.  After all, you really are trying to protect children.  You’re just trying to protect them from your uncle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Leslie and Richard,<br />
I think we&#8217;re missing an opportunity here.  Leslie, you should point out to your Uncle that even mentioning evolution to a bunch of curious and impressionable young children may cause one or two of them to go looking it up on the internet.  If they do that they might be lead away from their faith by what they find.  Then you can suggest that he stick to preaching scripture in Sunday school as a way to protect the poor little children from evolution, without acknowledging your atheist belief, which might at least get him to quit preaching about how evil he believes evolution is.  It has the advantage of being honest and true while still being an effort to get him to not do what he’s doing.  After all, you really are trying to protect children.  You’re just trying to protect them from your uncle.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/11/27/ask-richard-biologist-silent-in-the-face-of-her-uncle%e2%80%99s-teaching-against-evolution/#comment-402951</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 03:33:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=18694#comment-402951</guid>
		<description>I once had some Jehovah&#039;s Witnesses stop by my door to preach that evolution was wrong.  I asked them point blank why they were so hung up on evolution when many other Christians found no incompatibility between belief in God and evolution.  (for these other Christians, evolution is just the way God did things).  Well, the JW said that evolution couldn&#039;t be right because that would remove the special place God has for man.  I couldn&#039;t get them to elaborate on why a &quot;delayed, phased creation&quot; was any different than an all-at-once creation.  I guess they had not been coached to answer that question.  

Anyway, if you do want to enter a discussion with your family members on evolution, it might be interesting to ask them why the concept of evolution is problematic to their understanding of Christianity.  It may be less rewarding to argue (with them) the merits of evolution itself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I once had some Jehovah&#8217;s Witnesses stop by my door to preach that evolution was wrong.  I asked them point blank why they were so hung up on evolution when many other Christians found no incompatibility between belief in God and evolution.  (for these other Christians, evolution is just the way God did things).  Well, the JW said that evolution couldn&#8217;t be right because that would remove the special place God has for man.  I couldn&#8217;t get them to elaborate on why a &#8220;delayed, phased creation&#8221; was any different than an all-at-once creation.  I guess they had not been coached to answer that question.  </p>
<p>Anyway, if you do want to enter a discussion with your family members on evolution, it might be interesting to ask them why the concept of evolution is problematic to their understanding of Christianity.  It may be less rewarding to argue (with them) the merits of evolution itself.</p>
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		<title>By: Tgr</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/11/27/ask-richard-biologist-silent-in-the-face-of-her-uncle%e2%80%99s-teaching-against-evolution/#comment-402685</link>
		<dc:creator>Tgr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Nov 2009 15:30:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=18694#comment-402685</guid>
		<description>Point out to your uncle that he is being unethical by trying to indoctrinate children on an issue where he does not have the knowledge to judge who is right. What would he say if some guy started telling to the kids that the field of statics is a sham, and they shouldn&#039;t go into buildings because those could collapse any time? (Tailor the analogy to whatever field of engineering he is working in.) Being a biologist, you have every right to be offended whether you are a believer or not. Saying you would have to be an atheist to &quot;believe&quot; evolution is no less absurd than saying you would have to be a Jew to &quot;believe&quot; the Holocaust or you would have to be a follower of Amun-Re to &quot;believe&quot; it was the Egyptians and not aliens who built the pyramids.

You might also try to point out that once those children grow up and find out he lied to them, they will think the rest of Christianity is a lie, too. As Saint Augustine put it:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Usually, even a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other elements of this world, about the motion and orbit of the stars and even their size and relative positions, about the predictable eclipses of the sun and moon, the cycles of the years and the seasons, about the kinds of animals, shrubs, stones, and so forth, and this knowledge he hold to as being certain from reason and experience. Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn. The shame is not so much that an ignorant individual is derided, but that people outside the household of faith think our sacred writers held such opinions, and, to the great loss of those for whose salvation we toil, the writers of our Scripture are criticized and rejected as unlearned men. If they find a Christian mistaken in a field which they themselves know well and hear him maintaining his foolish opinions about our books, how are they going to believe those books in matters concerning the resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom of heaven, when they think their pages are full of falsehoods and on facts which they themselves have learnt from experience and the light of reason?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

If possible, do it in private, or in mail; turning your grandmother&#039;s birthday party into a debate would be rather rude to her.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Point out to your uncle that he is being unethical by trying to indoctrinate children on an issue where he does not have the knowledge to judge who is right. What would he say if some guy started telling to the kids that the field of statics is a sham, and they shouldn&#8217;t go into buildings because those could collapse any time? (Tailor the analogy to whatever field of engineering he is working in.) Being a biologist, you have every right to be offended whether you are a believer or not. Saying you would have to be an atheist to &#8220;believe&#8221; evolution is no less absurd than saying you would have to be a Jew to &#8220;believe&#8221; the Holocaust or you would have to be a follower of Amun-Re to &#8220;believe&#8221; it was the Egyptians and not aliens who built the pyramids.</p>
<p>You might also try to point out that once those children grow up and find out he lied to them, they will think the rest of Christianity is a lie, too. As Saint Augustine put it:</p>
<blockquote><p>Usually, even a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other elements of this world, about the motion and orbit of the stars and even their size and relative positions, about the predictable eclipses of the sun and moon, the cycles of the years and the seasons, about the kinds of animals, shrubs, stones, and so forth, and this knowledge he hold to as being certain from reason and experience. Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn. The shame is not so much that an ignorant individual is derided, but that people outside the household of faith think our sacred writers held such opinions, and, to the great loss of those for whose salvation we toil, the writers of our Scripture are criticized and rejected as unlearned men. If they find a Christian mistaken in a field which they themselves know well and hear him maintaining his foolish opinions about our books, how are they going to believe those books in matters concerning the resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom of heaven, when they think their pages are full of falsehoods and on facts which they themselves have learnt from experience and the light of reason?</p></blockquote>
<p>If possible, do it in private, or in mail; turning your grandmother&#8217;s birthday party into a debate would be rather rude to her.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Covill</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/11/27/ask-richard-biologist-silent-in-the-face-of-her-uncle%e2%80%99s-teaching-against-evolution/#comment-402517</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Covill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Nov 2009 01:26:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=18694#comment-402517</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t see why defending evolution (not terribly difficult, especially if you&#039;re a biologist!) has anything to do with atheism.

As someone commented, Uncle Blowhard is just plain full of beans, and who better than a biologist to (politely) point out that his view has a couple of minor logical problems.

I would advise resisting any and all attempts to link this to any familial suspicions of insufficient religious fervor.  If the Vatican accepts evolution, there can&#039;t be a real religious conflict.  Religion has nothing to do with it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t see why defending evolution (not terribly difficult, especially if you&#8217;re a biologist!) has anything to do with atheism.</p>
<p>As someone commented, Uncle Blowhard is just plain full of beans, and who better than a biologist to (politely) point out that his view has a couple of minor logical problems.</p>
<p>I would advise resisting any and all attempts to link this to any familial suspicions of insufficient religious fervor.  If the Vatican accepts evolution, there can&#8217;t be a real religious conflict.  Religion has nothing to do with it.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew n</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/11/27/ask-richard-biologist-silent-in-the-face-of-her-uncle%e2%80%99s-teaching-against-evolution/#comment-402434</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew n</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 19:05:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=18694#comment-402434</guid>
		<description>Grow a pair and speak out!! Defend the truth....no matter what! There are infinite non combative ways to call your uncle out!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Grow a pair and speak out!! Defend the truth&#8230;.no matter what! There are infinite non combative ways to call your uncle out!</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/11/27/ask-richard-biologist-silent-in-the-face-of-her-uncle%e2%80%99s-teaching-against-evolution/#comment-402386</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 16:21:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=18694#comment-402386</guid>
		<description>I think I agree with Claudia. This sounds like a combination of two issues: The relationship with the uncle (extending to the rest of the family), and the education of those kids. Addressing the latter by confronting the uncle endangers the former, while leaving unaddressed the education of the kids; only one source of misinformation may be affected without providing a rational educational opportunity.

For example, I was enrolled in a fundamentalist christian grade school, where we were taught that the canals on the surface of Mars were proof of the noahic flood. This was around 1980. &quot;Cosmos&quot; upended the misinformation of that entire church and the textbook publishers. Because the evidence of the ridiculousness of what they were teaching me was readily available, all of their work fell apart.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think I agree with Claudia. This sounds like a combination of two issues: The relationship with the uncle (extending to the rest of the family), and the education of those kids. Addressing the latter by confronting the uncle endangers the former, while leaving unaddressed the education of the kids; only one source of misinformation may be affected without providing a rational educational opportunity.</p>
<p>For example, I was enrolled in a fundamentalist christian grade school, where we were taught that the canals on the surface of Mars were proof of the noahic flood. This was around 1980. &#8220;Cosmos&#8221; upended the misinformation of that entire church and the textbook publishers. Because the evidence of the ridiculousness of what they were teaching me was readily available, all of their work fell apart.</p>
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		<title>By: Claudia</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/11/27/ask-richard-biologist-silent-in-the-face-of-her-uncle%e2%80%99s-teaching-against-evolution/#comment-402374</link>
		<dc:creator>Claudia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 15:46:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=18694#comment-402374</guid>
		<description>Along the same lines as those above, if you want to speak up within the family you can just look up the theist scientists who accept and endorse evolutionary theory. There are even some evangelicals in the bunch, I think. 

However I doubt you&#039;ll get your uncle to understand anything about it, since from your description he sounds like a right self-important stupid git. Avoiding him would probably more prudent.

As a biochemist, I love the idea of diluting (;-)) your uncle&#039;s poisoning of young minds through your undoubtedly superior capacity to educate them. It may be impossible to wedge in evolution into a closed evangelical community, but I bet you can find groups in your own community dedicated to education. Volunteer to help kids out in biology, or to speak to children about evolution. At least you can sleep knowing that for every young child tragically having their education cut short, you will be waking one up to the beauty of the natural world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Along the same lines as those above, if you want to speak up within the family you can just look up the theist scientists who accept and endorse evolutionary theory. There are even some evangelicals in the bunch, I think. </p>
<p>However I doubt you&#8217;ll get your uncle to understand anything about it, since from your description he sounds like a right self-important stupid git. Avoiding him would probably more prudent.</p>
<p>As a biochemist, I love the idea of diluting (;-)) your uncle&#8217;s poisoning of young minds through your undoubtedly superior capacity to educate them. It may be impossible to wedge in evolution into a closed evangelical community, but I bet you can find groups in your own community dedicated to education. Volunteer to help kids out in biology, or to speak to children about evolution. At least you can sleep knowing that for every young child tragically having their education cut short, you will be waking one up to the beauty of the natural world.</p>
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		<title>By: D.</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/11/27/ask-richard-biologist-silent-in-the-face-of-her-uncle%e2%80%99s-teaching-against-evolution/#comment-402366</link>
		<dc:creator>D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 15:19:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=18694#comment-402366</guid>
		<description>I agree with the advice on pointing out that evolution does not rule out christian belief (you still can have a creator at the beginning, if you can&#039;t do without). 
It is also worth trying to make calm (or wry) comments in private, eg. when you&#039;re in the kitchen helping your aunt, just remark something like &#039;I wish, uncle x would&#039;t make such a fool of himself sometimes.&#039; 
Try to present your uncle as someone who is a disgrace to faith rather than to science! 
They may be open to accept the idea of a more rational faith allowing for science, so you kind of could show them a way out. - You may even find allies... 

Also, the idea of &#039;subversive&#039; gifts for the kids is good; and do try to have a good relatioship with them - the future atheists among them may need you :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with the advice on pointing out that evolution does not rule out christian belief (you still can have a creator at the beginning, if you can&#8217;t do without).<br />
It is also worth trying to make calm (or wry) comments in private, eg. when you&#8217;re in the kitchen helping your aunt, just remark something like &#8216;I wish, uncle x would&#8217;t make such a fool of himself sometimes.&#8217;<br />
Try to present your uncle as someone who is a disgrace to faith rather than to science!<br />
They may be open to accept the idea of a more rational faith allowing for science, so you kind of could show them a way out. &#8211; You may even find allies&#8230; </p>
<p>Also, the idea of &#8216;subversive&#8217; gifts for the kids is good; and do try to have a good relatioship with them &#8211; the future atheists among them may need you <img src='http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: TXatheist</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/11/27/ask-richard-biologist-silent-in-the-face-of-her-uncle%e2%80%99s-teaching-against-evolution/#comment-402313</link>
		<dc:creator>TXatheist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 11:35:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=18694#comment-402313</guid>
		<description>Ask him if he&#039;s heard of Francis Collins?  If not, buy him one of his books on evolution.  Send from Anonymous if you think that&#039;s best.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ask him if he&#8217;s heard of Francis Collins?  If not, buy him one of his books on evolution.  Send from Anonymous if you think that&#8217;s best.</p>
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