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	<title>Comments on: Ask Richard: Atheist Despairs for Love and Respect from Her Mormon Family</title>
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	<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/12/08/ask-richard-atheist-despairs-for-love-and-respect-from-her-mormon-family/</link>
	<description>by Hemant Mehta</description>
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		<title>By: BK</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/12/08/ask-richard-atheist-despairs-for-love-and-respect-from-her-mormon-family/#comment-414293</link>
		<dc:creator>BK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Dec 2009 01:19:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=19217#comment-414293</guid>
		<description>My solution to this would be to confront her and then inform her matter of factually that she would never hear from me again. And I&#039;d make good on it.

This is my theory about family: I choose my friends, I DON&#039;T choose my family. If my family wants me to want to be around them, they have to also be my friends. I feel no inclination in the slightest to be around them just because of a chance blood relation to them.

I don&#039;t scream at, belittle, or argue with them. I simply cease contacting people who obviously aren&#039;t my friends.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My solution to this would be to confront her and then inform her matter of factually that she would never hear from me again. And I&#8217;d make good on it.</p>
<p>This is my theory about family: I choose my friends, I DON&#8217;T choose my family. If my family wants me to want to be around them, they have to also be my friends. I feel no inclination in the slightest to be around them just because of a chance blood relation to them.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t scream at, belittle, or argue with them. I simply cease contacting people who obviously aren&#8217;t my friends.</p>
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		<title>By: AxeGrrl</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/12/08/ask-richard-atheist-despairs-for-love-and-respect-from-her-mormon-family/#comment-408133</link>
		<dc:creator>AxeGrrl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 07:25:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=19217#comment-408133</guid>
		<description>erica wrote:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Eventually I realized family is not blood, &lt;strong&gt;family is who is really important to you and supports you, and you them&lt;/strong&gt;.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

There have been a lot of wonderful comments and advice in this thread, but imo, your words above are the wisest.

I&#039;ve always hated the &#039;blood is thicker than water&#039; mantra.  Family isn&#039;t something one should take for granted as something that just &#039;is&#039; ~ it&#039;s something that&#039;s created by peoples&#039; &lt;em&gt;actions&lt;/em&gt;.

And I say this as someone who has a wonderful &#039;blood&#039; family :)  But I also have people in my life that are just as much &#039;family&#039; to me despite not being relatives.

At the end of the day, the only people who deserve to fall into the category of &#039;family&#039; are those people who love, respect and support me and vice versa. 

Blood gets &lt;em&gt;far&lt;/em&gt; more &#039;automatic&#039; respect than I think it deserves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>erica wrote:</p>
<blockquote><p>Eventually I realized family is not blood, <strong>family is who is really important to you and supports you, and you them</strong>.</p></blockquote>
<p>There have been a lot of wonderful comments and advice in this thread, but imo, your words above are the wisest.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve always hated the &#8216;blood is thicker than water&#8217; mantra.  Family isn&#8217;t something one should take for granted as something that just &#8216;is&#8217; ~ it&#8217;s something that&#8217;s created by peoples&#8217; <em>actions</em>.</p>
<p>And I say this as someone who has a wonderful &#8216;blood&#8217; family <img src='http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />   But I also have people in my life that are just as much &#8216;family&#8217; to me despite not being relatives.</p>
<p>At the end of the day, the only people who deserve to fall into the category of &#8216;family&#8217; are those people who love, respect and support me and vice versa. </p>
<p>Blood gets <em>far</em> more &#8216;automatic&#8217; respect than I think it deserves.</p>
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		<title>By: llewelly</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/12/08/ask-richard-atheist-despairs-for-love-and-respect-from-her-mormon-family/#comment-408100</link>
		<dc:creator>llewelly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 04:23:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=19217#comment-408100</guid>
		<description>Move and don&#039;t tell them your new address.
Change your phone number and don&#039;t tell them the new one.
Get a new job and don&#039;t tell them where.
Do not say goodbye - just disappear.
Cut them out of your life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Move and don&#8217;t tell them your new address.<br />
Change your phone number and don&#8217;t tell them the new one.<br />
Get a new job and don&#8217;t tell them where.<br />
Do not say goodbye &#8211; just disappear.<br />
Cut them out of your life.</p>
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		<title>By: Susann</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/12/08/ask-richard-atheist-despairs-for-love-and-respect-from-her-mormon-family/#comment-407693</link>
		<dc:creator>Susann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 06:14:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=19217#comment-407693</guid>
		<description>Actually, Mormons &#039;&#039;have&#039;&#039; to honor everyone else&#039;s beliefs, under the Mormon claim of &#039;&#039;allowing all men [and women!] to worship how, where or what they may.&#039;&#039;

You can most definitely, calmly, call them on any attempts to shove their beliefs down your throat by asking if Mormons don&#039;t still believe in respecting the rights of others to worship &#039;&#039;how, where or what they may.&#039;&#039;

Ultimately, though, you may have to cut them loose. If they choose to not respect you, they do not love you - you&#039;re only a Thing to them be that Thing &#039;&#039;daughter&#039;&#039;, &#039;&#039;sister&#039;&#039; or etc. If they will not be kind towards you, cut them loose because  life is too short. Mourn the loss, then move on, free of them dragging you down every step of the way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, Mormons &#8221;have&#8221; to honor everyone else&#8217;s beliefs, under the Mormon claim of &#8221;allowing all men [and women!] to worship how, where or what they may.&#8221;</p>
<p>You can most definitely, calmly, call them on any attempts to shove their beliefs down your throat by asking if Mormons don&#8217;t still believe in respecting the rights of others to worship &#8221;how, where or what they may.&#8221;</p>
<p>Ultimately, though, you may have to cut them loose. If they choose to not respect you, they do not love you &#8211; you&#8217;re only a Thing to them be that Thing &#8221;daughter&#8221;, &#8221;sister&#8221; or etc. If they will not be kind towards you, cut them loose because  life is too short. Mourn the loss, then move on, free of them dragging you down every step of the way.</p>
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		<title>By: Cherie M</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/12/08/ask-richard-atheist-despairs-for-love-and-respect-from-her-mormon-family/#comment-407685</link>
		<dc:creator>Cherie M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 05:46:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=19217#comment-407685</guid>
		<description>First of all, congratulations on your engagement! Good luck with the wedding and brace yourself for &quot;so when are you converting him *wink*&quot; comments. 

Having grown up mormon and still in contact with my very mormon family, I&#039;ll give a few points I&#039;ve learned.

1) Your parents (you didn&#039;t mention your father.. if he is not around or not alive, my apologies) likely see you as a child for a couple of reasons. Mormons tend to their &quot;eternal&quot; view where you&#039;re all one big family and you will ALWAYS be their children. Not in the sense of offspring, but in the &quot;kid&quot; kind of sense. The other problem may be that with you not marrying &quot;into the faith&quot; they may feel that you will remain their spiritual responsibility until you repent and return and convert your fiance/husband. I spent several month in Australia a few years ago and during that time my parents were FORCED to treat me like an adult since I was too far away to control. Now I live near them again, but any time they start trying to pressure or guilt too much, I simply cut down phone calls and visits.

2) From the sound of things, they are loyal to their religion, not you. This is one of the most difficult things I&#039;ve had to deal with when it comes to my family and I still have a very hard time. I struggle to understand how my parents can treat me with disdain and disrespect when I simply disagree with them or when religion comes up. It&#039;s worst when they go on about how mormonism is about family. It&#039;s hard, it&#039;s hurtful, but you are not at fault and have NOTHING to do with it. They can&#039;t reconcile their religion and their family as separate. Again, this deals with the doctrine of eternal families. After shopping on Sunday and admitting as much to my mother, she broke down, cried and went &quot;How have you strayed so far? You&#039;re ruining my eternal family!&quot; Try and understand that due to their religious teachings, your family believes that you are lost to them forever. It can be very traumatic and can make people say and do things you never imagined your parents doing. Try and be strong and let your fiance help you through this. Anytime they are cruel, distance yourself and try and remember they have been indoctrinated thoroughly and that indoctrination and subsequent guilting are techniques to keep families in the mormon religion.

3) Politely acknowledge events in their life that deal with their religion. I&#039;m not sure if your family is the same, but mine talk about what they do in their religion almost non-stop. For my mother and sister-in-law, it IS their lives. If there is preaching, politely excuse yourself from the conversation or room, or if you can, excuse yourself from the even completely. Whatever they do, don&#039;t play the game. Be polite, be courteous, but be firm and consistent about your boundaries.

4) The last conference, mormons were told to tread carefully with &quot;apostate&quot; family members. They were cautioned about loving TOO unconditionally and how sometimes shunning is appropriate lest they condone poor behavior. For some this meant doing what they were already doing, for others it meant being more respectful, but for many, there has been a sort of backlash against non-mormon family members. It&#039;s an incredibly cruel thing for a religion to tell its members that love towards children IS conditional. It&#039;s heart-breaking and infuriating to get that from parents on the basis as something as simple as belief. Ignore any and all criticism of your &quot;behavior.&quot; You don&#039;t have to defend or explain yourself beyond stating you have different beliefs than them and that&#039;s all there is to it. Don&#039;t let them attempt to make you feel guilty or bad because you have a different opinion.

Good luck with all of this. Remember, you will have to be the bigger person for much of this. Some mormons are kind and loving with their &quot;wayward&quot; family and others are not. They are people like us and we are all imperfect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First of all, congratulations on your engagement! Good luck with the wedding and brace yourself for &#8220;so when are you converting him *wink*&#8221; comments. </p>
<p>Having grown up mormon and still in contact with my very mormon family, I&#8217;ll give a few points I&#8217;ve learned.</p>
<p>1) Your parents (you didn&#8217;t mention your father.. if he is not around or not alive, my apologies) likely see you as a child for a couple of reasons. Mormons tend to their &#8220;eternal&#8221; view where you&#8217;re all one big family and you will ALWAYS be their children. Not in the sense of offspring, but in the &#8220;kid&#8221; kind of sense. The other problem may be that with you not marrying &#8220;into the faith&#8221; they may feel that you will remain their spiritual responsibility until you repent and return and convert your fiance/husband. I spent several month in Australia a few years ago and during that time my parents were FORCED to treat me like an adult since I was too far away to control. Now I live near them again, but any time they start trying to pressure or guilt too much, I simply cut down phone calls and visits.</p>
<p>2) From the sound of things, they are loyal to their religion, not you. This is one of the most difficult things I&#8217;ve had to deal with when it comes to my family and I still have a very hard time. I struggle to understand how my parents can treat me with disdain and disrespect when I simply disagree with them or when religion comes up. It&#8217;s worst when they go on about how mormonism is about family. It&#8217;s hard, it&#8217;s hurtful, but you are not at fault and have NOTHING to do with it. They can&#8217;t reconcile their religion and their family as separate. Again, this deals with the doctrine of eternal families. After shopping on Sunday and admitting as much to my mother, she broke down, cried and went &#8220;How have you strayed so far? You&#8217;re ruining my eternal family!&#8221; Try and understand that due to their religious teachings, your family believes that you are lost to them forever. It can be very traumatic and can make people say and do things you never imagined your parents doing. Try and be strong and let your fiance help you through this. Anytime they are cruel, distance yourself and try and remember they have been indoctrinated thoroughly and that indoctrination and subsequent guilting are techniques to keep families in the mormon religion.</p>
<p>3) Politely acknowledge events in their life that deal with their religion. I&#8217;m not sure if your family is the same, but mine talk about what they do in their religion almost non-stop. For my mother and sister-in-law, it IS their lives. If there is preaching, politely excuse yourself from the conversation or room, or if you can, excuse yourself from the even completely. Whatever they do, don&#8217;t play the game. Be polite, be courteous, but be firm and consistent about your boundaries.</p>
<p>4) The last conference, mormons were told to tread carefully with &#8220;apostate&#8221; family members. They were cautioned about loving TOO unconditionally and how sometimes shunning is appropriate lest they condone poor behavior. For some this meant doing what they were already doing, for others it meant being more respectful, but for many, there has been a sort of backlash against non-mormon family members. It&#8217;s an incredibly cruel thing for a religion to tell its members that love towards children IS conditional. It&#8217;s heart-breaking and infuriating to get that from parents on the basis as something as simple as belief. Ignore any and all criticism of your &#8220;behavior.&#8221; You don&#8217;t have to defend or explain yourself beyond stating you have different beliefs than them and that&#8217;s all there is to it. Don&#8217;t let them attempt to make you feel guilty or bad because you have a different opinion.</p>
<p>Good luck with all of this. Remember, you will have to be the bigger person for much of this. Some mormons are kind and loving with their &#8220;wayward&#8221; family and others are not. They are people like us and we are all imperfect.</p>
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		<title>By: Carol</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/12/08/ask-richard-atheist-despairs-for-love-and-respect-from-her-mormon-family/#comment-407680</link>
		<dc:creator>Carol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 05:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=19217#comment-407680</guid>
		<description>Richard, will you marry me? (Don&#039;t tell my husband!) ;-)

Wonderful advice, as always.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard, will you marry me? (Don&#8217;t tell my husband!) <img src='http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Wonderful advice, as always.</p>
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		<title>By: erica</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/12/08/ask-richard-atheist-despairs-for-love-and-respect-from-her-mormon-family/#comment-407643</link>
		<dc:creator>erica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 03:47:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=19217#comment-407643</guid>
		<description>ALICE! My family is mormon too, and I once, with a very guilty conscience, saw some emails that I oughtn&#039;t have also. I&#039;m probably a couple years younger than you, but after a few years of my friends asking why I even spoke to my family, I learned that it&#039;s just best not to. My family treated me terribly, like I had sinned beyong belief for not going to BYU for college and going somewhere else instead. They hate me for my politics and liberty, I think.

Eventually I realized family is not blood, family is who is really important to you and supports you, and you them.

I&#039;m not lucky enough to have a fiance like you, as some other issues with mormonism left me pretty wary of ever thinking I&#039;m capable of a real relationship, but I spent my thanksgiving with a replacement family: my best friend from school, whom I study with, and happens to be gay, his cool older brother, and their two moms. Drinks all around: that was real family. They&#039;ve already invited me over for Christmas, while I received a short hand-written note from my father in the mail recently that said, &quot;don&#039;t bother trying to set foot in our house at christmas.&quot; (that&#039;s paraphrased, to be fair.&quot;

So you tell me, what&#039;s family?

Don&#039;t put up with their crap anymore. And visit exmormon.org. They help.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ALICE! My family is mormon too, and I once, with a very guilty conscience, saw some emails that I oughtn&#8217;t have also. I&#8217;m probably a couple years younger than you, but after a few years of my friends asking why I even spoke to my family, I learned that it&#8217;s just best not to. My family treated me terribly, like I had sinned beyong belief for not going to BYU for college and going somewhere else instead. They hate me for my politics and liberty, I think.</p>
<p>Eventually I realized family is not blood, family is who is really important to you and supports you, and you them.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not lucky enough to have a fiance like you, as some other issues with mormonism left me pretty wary of ever thinking I&#8217;m capable of a real relationship, but I spent my thanksgiving with a replacement family: my best friend from school, whom I study with, and happens to be gay, his cool older brother, and their two moms. Drinks all around: that was real family. They&#8217;ve already invited me over for Christmas, while I received a short hand-written note from my father in the mail recently that said, &#8220;don&#8217;t bother trying to set foot in our house at christmas.&#8221; (that&#8217;s paraphrased, to be fair.&#8221;</p>
<p>So you tell me, what&#8217;s family?</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t put up with their crap anymore. And visit exmormon.org. They help.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob  Carlson</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/12/08/ask-richard-atheist-despairs-for-love-and-respect-from-her-mormon-family/#comment-407608</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob  Carlson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 02:28:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=19217#comment-407608</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.mrdeity.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Mr. Deity&lt;/a&gt; was a Mormon, but I suppose that sending her family a CD of Mr. Deity skits wouldn&#039;t be the best idea. :)  It seems a bit odd that Mormons should be so concerned about a wayward family member given their belief that posthumous baptism will save non-Mormon family members. As I understand it, that is the primary reason that the Mormon church devotes so many resources to the study of genealogy.  All folks who study genealogy benefit greatly from their efforts, so should be grateful for them even if the reasons for them seem bizarre.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.mrdeity.com/" rel="nofollow">Mr. Deity</a> was a Mormon, but I suppose that sending her family a CD of Mr. Deity skits wouldn&#8217;t be the best idea. <img src='http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />   It seems a bit odd that Mormons should be so concerned about a wayward family member given their belief that posthumous baptism will save non-Mormon family members. As I understand it, that is the primary reason that the Mormon church devotes so many resources to the study of genealogy.  All folks who study genealogy benefit greatly from their efforts, so should be grateful for them even if the reasons for them seem bizarre.</p>
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		<title>By: Hammurabi</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/12/08/ask-richard-atheist-despairs-for-love-and-respect-from-her-mormon-family/#comment-407602</link>
		<dc:creator>Hammurabi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 02:09:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=19217#comment-407602</guid>
		<description>I have to agree with hoverfrog, your family does not have to respect your new beliefs. You are probably accustomed to having that type of respect because up till recently your beliefs have been their beliefs, ta-dah! instant respect. If you want things to change for the better, you have to stand up for yourself. You don&#039;t need to be the aggressor per se, but when they mock or misrepresent your viewpoints, you need to be able to defend your position. Pick your battles of course, some times a joke is just a joke.

Be informed, be confident, impress them with the weight of your understanding and if your family relationships still fall apart, at least your self-esteem will be intact.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to agree with hoverfrog, your family does not have to respect your new beliefs. You are probably accustomed to having that type of respect because up till recently your beliefs have been their beliefs, ta-dah! instant respect. If you want things to change for the better, you have to stand up for yourself. You don&#8217;t need to be the aggressor per se, but when they mock or misrepresent your viewpoints, you need to be able to defend your position. Pick your battles of course, some times a joke is just a joke.</p>
<p>Be informed, be confident, impress them with the weight of your understanding and if your family relationships still fall apart, at least your self-esteem will be intact.</p>
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		<title>By: hoverFrog</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/12/08/ask-richard-atheist-despairs-for-love-and-respect-from-her-mormon-family/#comment-407529</link>
		<dc:creator>hoverFrog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Dec 2009 22:38:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=19217#comment-407529</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;They claim to love me, but they continually mention their religion around me and mock my principles both political and religious. Recently, I asked my mother with utmost kindness and respect that she speak to the family about respecting my opinions when my fiancé and I are around.&lt;/blockquote&gt;Your family don&#039;t have to respect any of your opinions.  They don&#039;t have to respect your politics, your religion, your choice of fiance, your football team, your choice of career or the cut of your gib.  If they don&#039;t then that is tough, family is like that.  What they should do though is have the decency to respect you enough not to make these things an issue.  The former is forgivable, even expected with family.  The latter is disgraceful.

I&#039;m afraid that they probably still see you as a child rather than as an adult in her twenties.  Why is that?  Do they think that you are going through a phase perhaps?  Never underestimate the ability of people to deny the evidence before their very eyes when a comforting lie makes them feel better.

The only way that they will treat you with the respect that you deserve is if they can stop seeing you as they imagine you and start seeing you as you are.  One way to do this is to take a break from them for a time.  Familiarity breeds contempt after all and you will gain some time to become more comfortable without their rudeness and criticism.  Another is to confront the image that they have of you and replace it with the strong, independent woman that you are.  I can&#039;t see it being easy though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>They claim to love me, but they continually mention their religion around me and mock my principles both political and religious. Recently, I asked my mother with utmost kindness and respect that she speak to the family about respecting my opinions when my fiancé and I are around.</p></blockquote>
<p>Your family don&#8217;t have to respect any of your opinions.  They don&#8217;t have to respect your politics, your religion, your choice of fiance, your football team, your choice of career or the cut of your gib.  If they don&#8217;t then that is tough, family is like that.  What they should do though is have the decency to respect you enough not to make these things an issue.  The former is forgivable, even expected with family.  The latter is disgraceful.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m afraid that they probably still see you as a child rather than as an adult in her twenties.  Why is that?  Do they think that you are going through a phase perhaps?  Never underestimate the ability of people to deny the evidence before their very eyes when a comforting lie makes them feel better.</p>
<p>The only way that they will treat you with the respect that you deserve is if they can stop seeing you as they imagine you and start seeing you as you are.  One way to do this is to take a break from them for a time.  Familiarity breeds contempt after all and you will gain some time to become more comfortable without their rudeness and criticism.  Another is to confront the image that they have of you and replace it with the strong, independent woman that you are.  I can&#8217;t see it being easy though.</p>
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