<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Theft and Trust</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/12/17/theft-and-my-trust-in-people/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/12/17/theft-and-my-trust-in-people/</link>
	<description>by Hemant Mehta</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 28 May 2012 12:50:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.3</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: muggle</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/12/17/theft-and-my-trust-in-people/#comment-412065</link>
		<dc:creator>muggle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Dec 2009 01:10:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=19516#comment-412065</guid>
		<description>Eh, Revyloution, it must be hat.  That sounds totally cool but I&#039;m shyer in person than I am on-line, unless I get mad or totally relate to what you&#039;re saying or...  um, never mind.  I have trouble making friends in person but, yes, I&#039;d agree.  We click on a lot.  

supercheetah, I wish someone who mattered was listening to your ideas!  Terrific.  I think you&#039;ve got something there.  For all the lip service we give rehabilitation, we don&#039;t see much of what your saying.  Instead we get stuff like Colson&#039;s nonsense.

Heidi, I never have been actually (unless you count scumbag ex-husbands) but it might just be the attitude.  I do get rather in your face.  Less than a year ago, I did have to turn that cane around and threaten a young punk who decided it&#039;d be a good idea to push a middle-aged Grandma on a cane around.  Don&#039;t know but that I might be in jail for assault but her companion had more sense than she did and pulled her away before it came to blows -- and I was not going to be shoved a second time.  Fortunately, I was seated at the time -- on a bus, where she thought she&#039;d shove me off so her young healthy butt could sit.  In the handicapped seat at the front of the bus, no less.  If you&#039;re ever in this neck of the woods, stay off the #55, Albany-Schenectady route.  You need a weapon on that mother fucker.

Don&#039;t test it.  If I had to I might just run you over with that rolling walker.  My lower lims suck but I&#039;ll pit my upper body strength against near anyone short of a gym fanatic.  It&#039;s pretty damned good despite arthritis in shoulders, neck and spine.  If I&#039;m sitting, I probably could swing that thing!

Don&#039;t worry.  I&#039;ve never actually hurt anyone.  I sprayed pepper spray once on a bus when a guy shoved his knee into my back (didn&#039;t want anyone sitting next to him on a packed bus, fuck him, I ain&#039;t standing when there&#039;s a seat) but he was taller than I figured and I missed his eyes.  Should have seen the room that suddenly cleared around us and he left me the fuck alone rest of the way home.  Could be because I kept the pepper spray out and properly aimed the rest of the way.

I also had a vicious black cat who was convinced that she had to live up to movie stereotypes for 18 1/2 years.  That little New York bitch not only beat up two Dobermans and a German Shepherd but scared away two burglars that I know of so (and one more that I suspect but can&#039;t be sure about), no, I was never burlglered either.  She was fucking psycho!  I still miss her and she&#039;s been dead 14 years.  I fear I&#039;ll be like Mr. Bojangles in that respect.

Um, where do I live for this kind of stuff?  Denver and Albany, NY.  Missed Albany the whole time I lived in Denver.  What can I say, this is home.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eh, Revyloution, it must be hat.  That sounds totally cool but I&#8217;m shyer in person than I am on-line, unless I get mad or totally relate to what you&#8217;re saying or&#8230;  um, never mind.  I have trouble making friends in person but, yes, I&#8217;d agree.  We click on a lot.  </p>
<p>supercheetah, I wish someone who mattered was listening to your ideas!  Terrific.  I think you&#8217;ve got something there.  For all the lip service we give rehabilitation, we don&#8217;t see much of what your saying.  Instead we get stuff like Colson&#8217;s nonsense.</p>
<p>Heidi, I never have been actually (unless you count scumbag ex-husbands) but it might just be the attitude.  I do get rather in your face.  Less than a year ago, I did have to turn that cane around and threaten a young punk who decided it&#8217;d be a good idea to push a middle-aged Grandma on a cane around.  Don&#8217;t know but that I might be in jail for assault but her companion had more sense than she did and pulled her away before it came to blows &#8212; and I was not going to be shoved a second time.  Fortunately, I was seated at the time &#8212; on a bus, where she thought she&#8217;d shove me off so her young healthy butt could sit.  In the handicapped seat at the front of the bus, no less.  If you&#8217;re ever in this neck of the woods, stay off the #55, Albany-Schenectady route.  You need a weapon on that mother fucker.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t test it.  If I had to I might just run you over with that rolling walker.  My lower lims suck but I&#8217;ll pit my upper body strength against near anyone short of a gym fanatic.  It&#8217;s pretty damned good despite arthritis in shoulders, neck and spine.  If I&#8217;m sitting, I probably could swing that thing!</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t worry.  I&#8217;ve never actually hurt anyone.  I sprayed pepper spray once on a bus when a guy shoved his knee into my back (didn&#8217;t want anyone sitting next to him on a packed bus, fuck him, I ain&#8217;t standing when there&#8217;s a seat) but he was taller than I figured and I missed his eyes.  Should have seen the room that suddenly cleared around us and he left me the fuck alone rest of the way home.  Could be because I kept the pepper spray out and properly aimed the rest of the way.</p>
<p>I also had a vicious black cat who was convinced that she had to live up to movie stereotypes for 18 1/2 years.  That little New York bitch not only beat up two Dobermans and a German Shepherd but scared away two burglars that I know of so (and one more that I suspect but can&#8217;t be sure about), no, I was never burlglered either.  She was fucking psycho!  I still miss her and she&#8217;s been dead 14 years.  I fear I&#8217;ll be like Mr. Bojangles in that respect.</p>
<p>Um, where do I live for this kind of stuff?  Denver and Albany, NY.  Missed Albany the whole time I lived in Denver.  What can I say, this is home.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Captain Werewolf</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/12/17/theft-and-my-trust-in-people/#comment-412000</link>
		<dc:creator>Captain Werewolf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 20:04:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=19516#comment-412000</guid>
		<description>JP: I agree that there are plenty of rational reasons to cheat (ie, steal). I would add, though, that some people have plenty to lose and little to gain and still cheat. For many, it&#039;s a compulsion, a habit, or a form of entertainment, not a rational decision.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JP: I agree that there are plenty of rational reasons to cheat (ie, steal). I would add, though, that some people have plenty to lose and little to gain and still cheat. For many, it&#8217;s a compulsion, a habit, or a form of entertainment, not a rational decision.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: JP</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/12/17/theft-and-my-trust-in-people/#comment-411855</link>
		<dc:creator>JP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 13:44:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=19516#comment-411855</guid>
		<description>When your understandable anger has subsided, you might try to consider the whole episode from a purely rationalist  perspective... and brush up on your evolutionary biology at the same time.

Theft and other forms of &#039;cheating&#039; are classic strategies in game theory. In any predominantly co-operative society, the best (i.e. least costly) strategy for a certain frequency of individuals is to &#039;cheat&#039;, rather than conform to the rules of the game (i.e. work for their money). In other words, depending on the likelihood and severity of punishment, it is always worth taking the gamble of committing crime for some people in a society. This is why no society can ever eliminate crime - unless there is a 100% chance of being punished by death, it will always be profitable for some individuals to cheat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When your understandable anger has subsided, you might try to consider the whole episode from a purely rationalist  perspective&#8230; and brush up on your evolutionary biology at the same time.</p>
<p>Theft and other forms of &#8216;cheating&#8217; are classic strategies in game theory. In any predominantly co-operative society, the best (i.e. least costly) strategy for a certain frequency of individuals is to &#8216;cheat&#8217;, rather than conform to the rules of the game (i.e. work for their money). In other words, depending on the likelihood and severity of punishment, it is always worth taking the gamble of committing crime for some people in a society. This is why no society can ever eliminate crime &#8211; unless there is a 100% chance of being punished by death, it will always be profitable for some individuals to cheat.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Captain Werewolf</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/12/17/theft-and-my-trust-in-people/#comment-411802</link>
		<dc:creator>Captain Werewolf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 10:15:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=19516#comment-411802</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve stolen before (maybe less than $100 worth of stuff in my life), but not because I was hungry or desperate (most theft is really not because of need). I did it for the same reasons other people do: immaturity, the thrill of getting caught, feeling smarter than the store owner, whatever. It&#039;s all completely self-centered, a little &quot;fuck you&quot; to society. Childish, like vandalism. Obviously, I don&#039;t steal anymore, but I remember how easy the guilt was to rationalize away. 

Now, I never had the inclination or the balls to rob somebody--it was always shoplifting and the like. It&#039;s easier to talk yourself into it when you don&#039;t have to look the victim in the face. I&#039;ve also been mugged before, once at knife-point, and it sucks. I don&#039;t think it&#039;s so much people being irrational or whatever, even when they don&#039;t seem to gain anything from the endeavor. It&#039;s more like they just haven&#039;t been inculcated with the right kinds of social behaviors. The guy that steals the ipod is, to me, like the guy that kicks a dog. Neither action is &quot;irrational,&quot; they&#039;re just fucked up because they&#039;re inappropriate in the society we live in.

[reading over this post, it looks like I&#039;m taking a moral relativist stance or something; for the record I think that theft, mugging, and dog-kicking are really bad things, I just think most people tend to make moral decisions more or less intuitively, and this &quot;intuition&quot; is strongly influenced by patterns of behavior, upbringing, etc.]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve stolen before (maybe less than $100 worth of stuff in my life), but not because I was hungry or desperate (most theft is really not because of need). I did it for the same reasons other people do: immaturity, the thrill of getting caught, feeling smarter than the store owner, whatever. It&#8217;s all completely self-centered, a little &#8220;fuck you&#8221; to society. Childish, like vandalism. Obviously, I don&#8217;t steal anymore, but I remember how easy the guilt was to rationalize away. </p>
<p>Now, I never had the inclination or the balls to rob somebody&#8211;it was always shoplifting and the like. It&#8217;s easier to talk yourself into it when you don&#8217;t have to look the victim in the face. I&#8217;ve also been mugged before, once at knife-point, and it sucks. I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s so much people being irrational or whatever, even when they don&#8217;t seem to gain anything from the endeavor. It&#8217;s more like they just haven&#8217;t been inculcated with the right kinds of social behaviors. The guy that steals the ipod is, to me, like the guy that kicks a dog. Neither action is &#8220;irrational,&#8221; they&#8217;re just fucked up because they&#8217;re inappropriate in the society we live in.</p>
<p>[reading over this post, it looks like I'm taking a moral relativist stance or something; for the record I think that theft, mugging, and dog-kicking are really bad things, I just think most people tend to make moral decisions more or less intuitively, and this "intuition" is strongly influenced by patterns of behavior, upbringing, etc.]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: LKL</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/12/17/theft-and-my-trust-in-people/#comment-411784</link>
		<dc:creator>LKL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 07:49:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=19516#comment-411784</guid>
		<description>Not quite 19 years in Portland.  I graduated from high school and went to college at the usual age.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not quite 19 years in Portland.  I graduated from high school and went to college at the usual age.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: LKL</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/12/17/theft-and-my-trust-in-people/#comment-411783</link>
		<dc:creator>LKL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 07:26:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=19516#comment-411783</guid>
		<description>@ Heidi:  I went 19 years without ever having anything stolen from me in Portland,OR.  I went to Corvallis for school, and had my bike stolen my sophomore year - bike thefts were very high there, enough to be remarked on by just about everyone.  I saw the police grab a guy off of the quad with a two-foot long pair of lock snips under his jacket in the middle of the quad, at lunchtime. Not a lot of other stuff got stolen, though there were some other ugly social events.  

I transferred to Humboldt County, and learned not to leave *anything* in a locked car, ever.  No, the police don&#039;t do squat.  When I had all of my clothes stolen, I called the police and they said, &quot;We&#039;ll mail you a report to fill out.&quot;  I got it in the mail about two months later.

&quot;...Don’t you know you’re more valuable than the damned i-pod?”

It&#039;s not about the effing ipod.  At this point, I&#039;d like to beat the shit out of the person who stole all of my *underwear*.  It&#039;s the principle of the thing:  It is just not ok to go around taking other people&#039;s stuff, whether it&#039;s a shiny pebble that they found on the beach, an ipod, a car, or a child.  

And, yes:  a pair of angel fish from the tank in the waiting room.  &#039;Cause, you know, whoever it was really *needed* those fish more than the folks who sit around waiting for medical care.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Heidi:  I went 19 years without ever having anything stolen from me in Portland,OR.  I went to Corvallis for school, and had my bike stolen my sophomore year &#8211; bike thefts were very high there, enough to be remarked on by just about everyone.  I saw the police grab a guy off of the quad with a two-foot long pair of lock snips under his jacket in the middle of the quad, at lunchtime. Not a lot of other stuff got stolen, though there were some other ugly social events.  </p>
<p>I transferred to Humboldt County, and learned not to leave *anything* in a locked car, ever.  No, the police don&#8217;t do squat.  When I had all of my clothes stolen, I called the police and they said, &#8220;We&#8217;ll mail you a report to fill out.&#8221;  I got it in the mail about two months later.</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230;Don’t you know you’re more valuable than the damned i-pod?”</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not about the effing ipod.  At this point, I&#8217;d like to beat the shit out of the person who stole all of my *underwear*.  It&#8217;s the principle of the thing:  It is just not ok to go around taking other people&#8217;s stuff, whether it&#8217;s a shiny pebble that they found on the beach, an ipod, a car, or a child.  </p>
<p>And, yes:  a pair of angel fish from the tank in the waiting room.  &#8216;Cause, you know, whoever it was really *needed* those fish more than the folks who sit around waiting for medical care.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bob</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/12/17/theft-and-my-trust-in-people/#comment-411773</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 06:43:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=19516#comment-411773</guid>
		<description>FWIW, walk-by snatchings of train riders&#039; iPhones &amp; iPods is all the rage, at least along the Green Line of the Chicago el.

Advice: Stay aware of your surroundings. No weapon or martial art will keep you safe if you&#039;re not paying attention to your environment. Paying attention is the easiest way to avoid the need for violent reaction. Also, if you carry a weapon, know how to use it otherwise it&#039;s liable to be taken from you and used against you. Guns especially.

Keep the shiny toys under wraps or close to the vest, and replace those &quot;please steal my Apple(tm) gear&quot; white-corded earbuds for something in basic low-visibility generic black. Sometimes Apple&#039;s design panache is an absolute liability.

I have a hard time justifying the use of lethal force in defense of property, though the notion that the thief should have the holy living shit beat out of them holds some attraction, at least on the surface. I doubt that&#039;s the right approach though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FWIW, walk-by snatchings of train riders&#8217; iPhones &amp; iPods is all the rage, at least along the Green Line of the Chicago el.</p>
<p>Advice: Stay aware of your surroundings. No weapon or martial art will keep you safe if you&#8217;re not paying attention to your environment. Paying attention is the easiest way to avoid the need for violent reaction. Also, if you carry a weapon, know how to use it otherwise it&#8217;s liable to be taken from you and used against you. Guns especially.</p>
<p>Keep the shiny toys under wraps or close to the vest, and replace those &#8220;please steal my Apple(tm) gear&#8221; white-corded earbuds for something in basic low-visibility generic black. Sometimes Apple&#8217;s design panache is an absolute liability.</p>
<p>I have a hard time justifying the use of lethal force in defense of property, though the notion that the thief should have the holy living shit beat out of them holds some attraction, at least on the surface. I doubt that&#8217;s the right approach though.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: AxeGrrl</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/12/17/theft-and-my-trust-in-people/#comment-411763</link>
		<dc:creator>AxeGrrl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 05:58:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=19516#comment-411763</guid>
		<description>Sarah wrote:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Edit: @ LKL: FISH?!?! People steal FISH? Wow I thought I’d heard everything. How the hell would you steal a fish? *wanders off muttering to self about crazy people*&lt;/blockquote&gt;

That was my reaction too!

I&#039;d be fascinated to hear exactly &lt;em&gt;how&lt;/em&gt; they do it.....hopefully it involves a water-filled ziplock bag and &lt;em&gt;not&lt;/em&gt; a &#039;personal storage&#039; method used by drug smugglers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sarah wrote:</p>
<blockquote><p>Edit: @ LKL: FISH?!?! People steal FISH? Wow I thought I’d heard everything. How the hell would you steal a fish? *wanders off muttering to self about crazy people*</p></blockquote>
<p>That was my reaction too!</p>
<p>I&#8217;d be fascinated to hear exactly <em>how</em> they do it&#8230;..hopefully it involves a water-filled ziplock bag and <em>not</em> a &#8216;personal storage&#8217; method used by drug smugglers.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Elis</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/12/17/theft-and-my-trust-in-people/#comment-411760</link>
		<dc:creator>Elis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 05:49:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=19516#comment-411760</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m glad you weren&#039;t hurt and hope you recover your other items.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Assumption that people are generally good – momentarily shaken.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

In my case the assumption that people are good is permanently shaken.  I&#039;ve been the victim of theft so many times that I no longer believe people are naturally good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m glad you weren&#8217;t hurt and hope you recover your other items.</p>
<blockquote><p>Assumption that people are generally good – momentarily shaken.</p></blockquote>
<p>In my case the assumption that people are good is permanently shaken.  I&#8217;ve been the victim of theft so many times that I no longer believe people are naturally good.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: supercheetah</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/12/17/theft-and-my-trust-in-people/#comment-411756</link>
		<dc:creator>supercheetah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 05:11:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=19516#comment-411756</guid>
		<description>I still assert that prisons should be mental institutions because I still believe that criminals are mentally ill.  They may not have been that way when they were born, but at the time of the crime, they certainly were.

Criminals, the way I see it, should be locked in prison until it&#039;s determined that they are safe to be let into society, and there should be continuous rehabilitation sessions to get them there.  Sometimes rehabilitation merely means education, but it would certainly be different for every person.  Just putting someone in jail, and throwing away the key seems to be counterproductive.

I&#039;m glad your okay though Jesse, and I hope you do find your other stuff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I still assert that prisons should be mental institutions because I still believe that criminals are mentally ill.  They may not have been that way when they were born, but at the time of the crime, they certainly were.</p>
<p>Criminals, the way I see it, should be locked in prison until it&#8217;s determined that they are safe to be let into society, and there should be continuous rehabilitation sessions to get them there.  Sometimes rehabilitation merely means education, but it would certainly be different for every person.  Just putting someone in jail, and throwing away the key seems to be counterproductive.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m glad your okay though Jesse, and I hope you do find your other stuff.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

<!-- Performance optimized by W3 Total Cache. Learn more: http://www.w3-edge.com/wordpress-plugins/

Minified using disk: basic (User agent is rejected)
Page Caching using disk: enhanced (User agent is rejected)
Database Caching 1/4 queries in 0.005 seconds using disk: basic
Object Caching 380/383 objects using disk: basic
Content Delivery Network via Amazon Web Services: S3: wp.patheos.com.s3.amazonaws.com (user agent is rejected)

Served from: www.patheos.com @ 2012-05-28 07:55:50 -->
