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	<title>Comments on: A Yelp for Churches</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2010/02/08/a-yelp-for-churches/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2010/02/08/a-yelp-for-churches/</link>
	<description>by Hemant Mehta</description>
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		<title>By: Anna</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2010/02/08/a-yelp-for-churches/#comment-430964</link>
		<dc:creator>Anna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:31:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=21294#comment-430964</guid>
		<description>I think this is a fun idea, and I wouldn&#039;t mind doing it for the cultural experience, but I have to wonder if Jim Henderson really understands &lt;i&gt;why&lt;/i&gt; people like us don&#039;t attend church. It&#039;s not because we don&#039;t like the building. It&#039;s not because we don&#039;t like the people. It&#039;s not because we don&#039;t like the music or the sermon. It&#039;s because we don&#039;t believe in the theology! And in many cases we also have severe moral problems with what the church teaches.

When I read &lt;b&gt;I Sold My Soul on eBay&lt;/b&gt;, I couldn&#039;t help but think that the information Hemant provided just wasn&#039;t going to be very helpful to those churches. It&#039;s like the Christians involved are missing the whole point. They think we don&#039;t like their churches because they aren&#039;t attractive or inviting enough. They don&#039;t seem to get that we don&#039;t believe what they teach, and that&#039;s the core problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this is a fun idea, and I wouldn&#8217;t mind doing it for the cultural experience, but I have to wonder if Jim Henderson really understands <i>why</i> people like us don&#8217;t attend church. It&#8217;s not because we don&#8217;t like the building. It&#8217;s not because we don&#8217;t like the people. It&#8217;s not because we don&#8217;t like the music or the sermon. It&#8217;s because we don&#8217;t believe in the theology! And in many cases we also have severe moral problems with what the church teaches.</p>
<p>When I read <b>I Sold My Soul on eBay</b>, I couldn&#8217;t help but think that the information Hemant provided just wasn&#8217;t going to be very helpful to those churches. It&#8217;s like the Christians involved are missing the whole point. They think we don&#8217;t like their churches because they aren&#8217;t attractive or inviting enough. They don&#8217;t seem to get that we don&#8217;t believe what they teach, and that&#8217;s the core problem.</p>
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		<title>By: Helen</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2010/02/08/a-yelp-for-churches/#comment-430558</link>
		<dc:creator>Helen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 21:37:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=21294#comment-430558</guid>
		<description>Richard, if you&#039;re 20-35 write to the ChurchRater site using the &#039;request a rating&#039; option on the contact page and say you&#039;d be interested in doing a paid rating if a church in your area asks for some. But if you&#039;re older you probably won&#039;t qualify because the Craigslist ads say 20-35 year olds who aren&#039;t Christians.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard, if you&#8217;re 20-35 write to the ChurchRater site using the &#8216;request a rating&#8217; option on the contact page and say you&#8217;d be interested in doing a paid rating if a church in your area asks for some. But if you&#8217;re older you probably won&#8217;t qualify because the Craigslist ads say 20-35 year olds who aren&#8217;t Christians.</p>
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		<title>By: Helen</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2010/02/08/a-yelp-for-churches/#comment-430156</link>
		<dc:creator>Helen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 19:27:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=21294#comment-430156</guid>
		<description>hoverfrog wrote:

&lt;blockquote&gt;That beats the old “churches rate themselves to be great” problem that they used to have.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Well, that&#039;s still happening, but people are also posting ratings and comments that are more, shall we say, balanced? :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hoverfrog wrote:</p>
<blockquote><p>That beats the old “churches rate themselves to be great” problem that they used to have.</p></blockquote>
<p>Well, that&#8217;s still happening, but people are also posting ratings and comments that are more, shall we say, balanced? <img src='http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Helen</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2010/02/08/a-yelp-for-churches/#comment-430155</link>
		<dc:creator>Helen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 19:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=21294#comment-430155</guid>
		<description>Jer wrote

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;These churches could just hang on to the money if regular churchgoers had the guts to tell their pastors what they didn’t like about church — what they found offensive or untrue or disingenuous.&lt;/i&gt;

This doesn’t really make much sense. With very few exceptions, most Christians have the ability to “church shop”. Most regular churchgoers at a particular church aren’t going to churches that they don’t like – if they didn’t like it they’d stop going and go somewhere else. Finding out why people who aren’t going to your church don’t like it is good market research that your regular attendees aren’t going to be able to do for you no matter how deeply you probe them – whatever annoys the people who don’t go to your church clearly doesn’t annoy them enough for it to matter to them. Heck something that turns off 90% of the visitors that walk through the door of your church may be the very thing that keeps the regulars coming back week after week.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Actually that hasn&#039;t been my experience,  Jer. Most regular attenders at church have some things they like and others they don&#039;t like about their church. They could be asked for constructive criticism. And it often takes a lot to push an attender to the point they&#039;ll leave, so it&#039;s quite possible churches might have somewhat disgruntled attenders. And if anyone wants a church to improve it&#039;s those who attend and feel some loyalty, so they would be great people to ask for feedback.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jer wrote</p>
<blockquote><p><i>These churches could just hang on to the money if regular churchgoers had the guts to tell their pastors what they didn’t like about church — what they found offensive or untrue or disingenuous.</i></p>
<p>This doesn’t really make much sense. With very few exceptions, most Christians have the ability to “church shop”. Most regular churchgoers at a particular church aren’t going to churches that they don’t like – if they didn’t like it they’d stop going and go somewhere else. Finding out why people who aren’t going to your church don’t like it is good market research that your regular attendees aren’t going to be able to do for you no matter how deeply you probe them – whatever annoys the people who don’t go to your church clearly doesn’t annoy them enough for it to matter to them. Heck something that turns off 90% of the visitors that walk through the door of your church may be the very thing that keeps the regulars coming back week after week.</p></blockquote>
<p>Actually that hasn&#8217;t been my experience,  Jer. Most regular attenders at church have some things they like and others they don&#8217;t like about their church. They could be asked for constructive criticism. And it often takes a lot to push an attender to the point they&#8217;ll leave, so it&#8217;s quite possible churches might have somewhat disgruntled attenders. And if anyone wants a church to improve it&#8217;s those who attend and feel some loyalty, so they would be great people to ask for feedback.</p>
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		<title>By: J. K. Jones</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2010/02/08/a-yelp-for-churches/#comment-430111</link>
		<dc:creator>J. K. Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 17:00:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=21294#comment-430111</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the post.

I plan to link to it on my little blog if there is no objection.  

I can&#039;t resist sharing the notion that unbelievers view the church as a business.  So many of our churches have fallen into that category for so long, we deserve the criticism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the post.</p>
<p>I plan to link to it on my little blog if there is no objection.  </p>
<p>I can&#8217;t resist sharing the notion that unbelievers view the church as a business.  So many of our churches have fallen into that category for so long, we deserve the criticism.</p>
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		<title>By: The Alien</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2010/02/08/a-yelp-for-churches/#comment-430070</link>
		<dc:creator>The Alien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 14:32:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=21294#comment-430070</guid>
		<description>I just wanted to let people know that ChurchRater is not the first to do this.  Ziztur and Flimsyman from ziztur.com have already started this over a year ago, have gone to about 40 churches and have even found some they would endorse if an atheist may want to find social opportunity in such a place! She also takes Christian books and dismantles their arguments which is a whole new set of fun.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just wanted to let people know that ChurchRater is not the first to do this.  Ziztur and Flimsyman from ziztur.com have already started this over a year ago, have gone to about 40 churches and have even found some they would endorse if an atheist may want to find social opportunity in such a place! She also takes Christian books and dismantles their arguments which is a whole new set of fun.</p>
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		<title>By: 1minion</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2010/02/08/a-yelp-for-churches/#comment-430061</link>
		<dc:creator>1minion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 13:56:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=21294#comment-430061</guid>
		<description>I wrote about a fellow in Denver last year, called himself the Phantom Pew Sitter. He was doing the same thing, consulting and rating churches. http://www.denverpost.com/lifestyles/ci_11275740

I think it&#039;s a fine idea. There&#039;s no reason why those institutions should be immune to criticism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wrote about a fellow in Denver last year, called himself the Phantom Pew Sitter. He was doing the same thing, consulting and rating churches. <a href="http://www.denverpost.com/lifestyles/ci_11275740" rel="nofollow">http://www.denverpost.com/lifestyles/ci_11275740</a></p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s a fine idea. There&#8217;s no reason why those institutions should be immune to criticism.</p>
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		<title>By: hoverfrog</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2010/02/08/a-yelp-for-churches/#comment-430010</link>
		<dc:creator>hoverfrog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 08:27:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=21294#comment-430010</guid>
		<description>John the old ratings still seem to be up.  There is a big gap between 2008 and 2010 where the ratings were suspended because Christians where pushing their own church rather than giving honest ratings.  I know, sounds dishonest and dishonourable doesn&#039;t it.  And from Christians.  I&#039;m as shocked and stunned as you are.

I hope that this is a change for the better.  As much as I think churches are a horrible waste of time I am well aware that they aren&#039;t for me.  If Christians want to have the best clubhouse then they should rate them fairly and honestly.  That way other people who are interested get to see something that is less biased than the usual advertising material.  It&#039;s no different from rating a pub, a restaurant or a golf club.   

...Except they pay taxes. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John the old ratings still seem to be up.  There is a big gap between 2008 and 2010 where the ratings were suspended because Christians where pushing their own church rather than giving honest ratings.  I know, sounds dishonest and dishonourable doesn&#8217;t it.  And from Christians.  I&#8217;m as shocked and stunned as you are.</p>
<p>I hope that this is a change for the better.  As much as I think churches are a horrible waste of time I am well aware that they aren&#8217;t for me.  If Christians want to have the best clubhouse then they should rate them fairly and honestly.  That way other people who are interested get to see something that is less biased than the usual advertising material.  It&#8217;s no different from rating a pub, a restaurant or a golf club.   </p>
<p>&#8230;Except they pay taxes. <img src='http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Erp</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2010/02/08/a-yelp-for-churches/#comment-429998</link>
		<dc:creator>Erp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 06:15:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=21294#comment-429998</guid>
		<description>And then there are the longer established &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ship-of-fools.com/mystery/index.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Ship of Fools Mystery Worshippers&lt;/a&gt; evaluating churches since 1998.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And then there are the longer established <a href="http://www.ship-of-fools.com/mystery/index.html" rel="nofollow">Ship of Fools Mystery Worshippers</a> evaluating churches since 1998.</p>
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		<title>By: john locke</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2010/02/08/a-yelp-for-churches/#comment-429987</link>
		<dc:creator>john locke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 04:40:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=21294#comment-429987</guid>
		<description>&#039;That beats the old “churches rate themselves to be great” problem that they used to have.&quot;

Looking through the reviews, that is exactly what is happening. Most of the reviews are 4-5 star ratings from Christians who rated the church they attend. I don&#039;t see many non-christian reviews.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;That beats the old “churches rate themselves to be great” problem that they used to have.&#8221;</p>
<p>Looking through the reviews, that is exactly what is happening. Most of the reviews are 4-5 star ratings from Christians who rated the church they attend. I don&#8217;t see many non-christian reviews.</p>
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