Update on Angie’s Abortion

Wow, it’s amazing the difference one woman with a twitter account can make Proud of you Angie!

Good for you, Angie!

I think it’s fantastic that she was willing to do this. I’m quite sad that there are so many people who are only willing to give her a “pass” on it because it was life-threatening, and appalled that some people are still threatening her anyway. But I think she’s a real shining star in the culture wars, showing that women need to be taken seriously as people with needs and reasons and real lives rather than abstract symbols to be debated and restricted.

Sorry, I’m not digging this. While I’m grateful that she has the choice to carry a fetus to term or not, this was broaching on cynical.

Some things should remain private. There was really no honor in her choosing to do this ~ And I don’t mean the abortion, I understood that, but the absence of reflection while she was displaying it was troubling.

Ugh, you extraverts don’t realize how hard your world is on us introverts

I can really relate to what Karen said above, but I do see the benefits to others who have had to grapple in private with the issues.

I know it’s Hemant’s blog so he can cover what he wants, but it’s supposedly an atheist blog and not a “abortion live on youtube” blog.

Ms. Jackson,
Thanks for sharing and good luck in your future endeavors.

I’m so glad that she had the courage to do the right thing — for herself. Abortion is such a highly personal choice, and it’s surrounded by such strong emotions on both sides of the issue that it can be overwhelming.

Thank you for telling your story.

I’m truly grateful for what Angie Jackson has done. I had always thought that you would have to go under the knife in order to have an abortion. I’m glad to know women have more choices than what social conservatives would have us believe.

Thanks, Angie, for being so open and honest about the whole experience. It helps me to know more about what an abortion is like should I ever have one myself. I’m glad you’re doing well!

I think that the very fact that people are commenting on here that this made them uncomfortable is all the more reason for Angie to have done what she did. She is helping to normalize something that should be, in fact, regarded as normal. She took a brave stand; she knew that she would face a backlash, but her efforts are making a difference. I wish her all the best, and I hope that she has inspired many women to make the choices that they need to make without feeling guilt.

@Karen:

the absence of reflection while she was displaying it was troubling.

That is an incredibly judgmental statement. Should everyone have to display a level of reflection that satisfies you, Karen? Is that their solemn obligation? And what does introversion/extroversion have to do with it? I’m a pretty big introvert, and I would never be brave enough to do what Angie is doing, but her forthrightness and openness about all of this benefits people like me a great deal.

And finally, reproductive rights is one of the main areas that we need to stand up to the religious right in the United States (and even many elements of the mushy religious center and left). I’d say that falls well within the mission of any meeting place of atheists who have social concerns.

For those who think Angie’s sharing the process of her abortion on Youtube is “unseemly” or whatever, I submit that one can find an educational video addressing just about any medical treatment; why should abortion be any different? Reading the comments on Angie’s video shows just how ignorant many people are about reproduction, contraception and just how difficult it is to obtain permanent sterilization for an unmarried woman with no kids under the age of 35.

Angie’s “mission” has always been to educate people, and she has. It’s too bad that by doing so she opened herself and her family to death threats. If she made a video about undergoing chemotherapy or a mastectomy no one would have a thing to say, but since the clump of cells that threatened her life was an embryo rather than a tumor, it’s expected that she remain silent and feel some sort of shame for removing it. Good for her for demonstrating that choosing abortion doesn’t have to engender any more guilt than having a tumor removed.

This needs to be done more often. Perhaps not the whole posting it on Twitter and getting on the news, but telling other people about your abortion. It will be a lot harder to demonize women who have abortions if people know multiple people who have had one. As most people probably do. Same principle as coming out of the closet.

The point of Angie’s tweets and video about the abortion (I don’t think she showed the actual abortion) was to educate people as to the process and to show them that abortion doesn’t have to be bogged down in shame and guilt. Furthermore, she explained in detail why abortion was the right choice for her. How much more reflection do you want?

Yes, abortion is a private thing. But if women never have a chance to tell their stories of abortion and why they decided it was the right choice for them, then we leave it up to the pro-lifers to define abortion and the narratives surrounding it, and I’d say they’ve been doing that for quite a while now.

As for this not being the “you-tube abortion blog” or whatever, Hemant writes about things not directly related to atheism, but presumably of interest to secular people, all the time, such as gay rights issues.

I thank Angie for being so open and putting her experiences out there. I certainly learned more, especially about the abortion pill.

Karen, you said

“Ugh, you extraverts don’t realize how hard your world is on us introverts ”

Ive heard similar arguments against gay marriage. That it should be hidden, so to not offend the delicate sensibilities of those who think it’s immoral.

My question is why did you choose to watch the video, read the article and then post? Im not an introvert, so your actions seem strange to me. Why immerse yourself in something you find unseemly? Why not just avoid it?

___

I also want to comment on the reporter. She did a decent job, but I felt like she wanted to ask much harder questions. Did anyone else see a hint of antagonism in her?

It’s important for Angie and others like her to do what she did specifically because so many people *do* think that this kind of procedure should be hidden and shameful. Shedding some light on what it’s really like can help educate others who may similarly be in need.

My only beef with Angie is that throughout this process she said she had been taking her birth control improperly and then went on to say that her birth control failed. If she had been taking it properly, she would not have gotten pregnant. She needs to own up to this fact.

Its also a bit annoying that she feels like she needs some justification for getting the abortion. The fact is that she didn’t want to have a kid, was careless with her BC and she got pregnant. Her pregnancy was uncomfortable? Whose isn’t?

She seems a bit dishonest about her motivation for doing this which makes the whole thing seem very attention-whoreish. If you don’t want a kid, have an abortion. If you do want a kid, don’t have an abortion. That is all the reason you need.

I do applaud her for bringing this issue to light. Most people are in the dark about abortion (similar to gay relationships as well as atheism) and things like this are great to make the populace more aware of the misconceptions about abortion.

I also think its cool of CNN to cover this topic. Fox News would have had Sean Hannity interview with his hand over her microphone shutoff just so he could destroy her.

I originally didn’t agree with Angie over this. I thought that her visibility would do more harm than good, but I was wrong.

I’ve been fortunate enough that I have never had a pregnancy scare. Because of that, it’s easy to forget how important it is to protect this right.
Good for you Angie; you’re an inspiration.

I got an appendectomy, where’s my CNN coverage?

Angie Jackson wrote a very popular (and controversial) posting on this site a few weeks ago

She underwent a perfectly legal procedure that is performed a million times per year.
It’s not controversial unless you view this as a cynical exploitation of the media and attention-seeking writ large using a politico-cultural issue that’s sure to grab headlines.
Next stop: Oprah.

Thegoodman, you’re pretty clearly not paying attention. Angie was using an IUD. They’re set & forget, but like ALL birth control methods, are not 100% effective.

Moreover, if you’re going to go public about an abortion, the very first thing most people will ask is why you decided to go that route. Angie was proactive in answering those queries- but you call that ‘attention-whoring’? Is that so you could just sneak in the word ‘whore’ on her like all the anti-abortion nutjobs have in their abusive messages to Angie?

Seriously, don’t run your yap without knowing what you’re talking about, mkay? Makes you look like a moron.

Impressive. But she is not a Jedi yet.

Just kidding. You go, Angie! It’s important to discuss these things to demystify them.

I am manic/depressive, and discuss it openly with anyone and everyone. Mental illness, like abortion (or atheism!), has a stigma attached to it that can only be lessened by providing people with real information.
When I had my major breakdown and almost killed myself, the events and my new diagnosis became common knowledge to my friends. Immediately, I had people coming to me privately with support and with their own stories of depression. Mostly they just told me because I would understand and be “safe” to talk to. They didn’t want me to share their information. Most were just relieved that someone they knew came out and discussed the undiscussable.

That’s what Angie is doing.

Karen says: ”…the absence of reflection while she was displaying it was troubling.”
I thought she showed a great deal of thought and reflection.

Ron says: “I know it’s Hemant’s blog so he can cover what he wants, but it’s supposedly an atheist blog and not a “abortion live on youtube” blog.”
Sadly, the abortion debate is tied up tightly to religion in our country. Atheists support or oppose abortion for secular, scientific and/or personal reasons. The problem is the religious folk who want to stop any discussion and any choice. Most atheists I know on either side of the abortion issue support the other side’s right to make decisions for themselves. That’s why this issue is pertinent to atheists.

@Thegoodman, she had an IUD. That is inserted and good for up to 10 years. You do not “take” an IUD. She was *also* using condoms as a second back up method, and *that* is what she said she hadn’t been as consistent with as she should have been– but the IUD alone *should* have been PLENTY to prevent pregnancy.

grrr, you don’t *take* IUD! Birth control is NOT synonymous with hormonal contraceptive pills! Lol. The ignorance surrounding contraception and abortion astounds me. This should be hohum whatever, never even get to CNN ‘cuz it’s boring. Unfortunately, that’s not where we’re at.

People document their face lifts on pseudo-medicine TLC programs, Al Roker documented his colonoscopy, why not take away some of the mystery surrounding abortion?

I live in a small, conservative town where on the anniversary of Roe v. Wade last month they went door to door with flyers talking about how many women die from the procedure, how it makes you infertile and puts you at the highest risk for cancer, but abortion doctors make too much money to tell you the “real” risks. So many people honestly believe the potential for life deserves more rights than a living being whose body is being used and compromised.

Great job, Angie! I doubt I would have been so calm and collected in a live interview with CNN.

I didn’t wade into the previous thread, but I just wanted to say how brave I think Angie is for tackling this subject. Abortion is still heavily stigmatized in the United States, and I think it’s helpful to have more women willing to speak openly about their personal experiences with it.

@Jemand: “The ignorance surrounding contraception and abortion astounds me. This should be hohum whatever.”

EXACTLY!!! That’s why this is important!

And everyone knows about the ‘crazy lady’s’ IUD, too. Mine is a Mirena, infused with hormones and ‘good for’ 5 years. With no backup needed. Angie just hit the bad odds number.
In fact, I’d still be slogging away with oral BC pills if it weren’t for the Mirena commercial. What a great thing that was for me! Mirena is better for my health because I am anemic and most women on Mirena stop menstruating, or just spot.

I lose less blood now than when I took pills; thus I am a little less anemic. I am getting a lower dose of meds in my system, and have a BC method I can’t screw up. And it was cheap.

Karen Says:

Ugh, you extraverts don’t realize how hard your world is on us introverts

I’m an introvert to the point of social phobia and panic disorder, for which I’m on SSI disability. And I think what Angie is doing is awesome. Take it this way. Angie talks about it so we don’t have to.

Also, as for the IUD, if she has the same one I do, Mirena, it’s good for five years. You check the threads every month (not as easy as it sounds), and go in to have the doctor check it every so often. And yes, even though it’s 99% effective, it can fail through no fault of her (or my) own.

@Jemand

She clearly wasn’t comfortable with her IUD and was using condoms as a secondary form of birth control. It remains that is she has been more prudent with her usage of condoms this wouldn’t have happened.

Also, IUD’s are 99.2%-99.7% effective. Its unlikely that the IUD failed and much more likely that she wasn’t doing the proper maintenance on it to make sure it was properly in place. The percentages of effectiveness are not indicative of how well it works, it works 100% of the time if used properly. The small percentage of error is simply there to save their ass in court if a girl “swears” she was using it correctly and it failed and there is no proof of her using it correctly or not.

“grrr, you don’t *take* IUD! Birth control is NOT synonymous with hormonal contraceptive pills! Lol. The ignorance surrounding contraception and abortion astounds me.”

IUD’s are hormonal as well. I simply forgot it was an IUD and not an oral BC but it doesn’t really change anything.

I am not saying her abortion is wrong. I am saying she is wrong by attempting to justify it for anything other than simply not wanting a child. She is clearly capable of having children (she already has one) and a 2nd child may have had complications, and it may not have. If you don’t want a kid, have an abortion but please don’t act like it is some sort of medical condition that forced you to not have it. Medical conditions that cause you to not have children are taken care of via miscarriage or simply not conceiving.

Angie

I’m proud of you. You go girl. You have very legitimate health reasons for having an abortion but I don’t even think they’re the least bit important to the situation. I’d equally say “atta girl” if you just said, “I got pregnant, the situation wasn’t right, so I had an abortion – MY CHOICE. Have a nice day.”

Doug

I am not saying her abortion is wrong. I am saying she is wrong by attempting to justify it for anything other than simply not wanting a child. She is clearly capable of having children (she already has one) and a 2nd child may have had complications, and it may not have. If you don’t want a kid, have an abortion but please don’t act like it is some sort of medical condition that forced you to not have it. Medical conditions that cause you to not have children are taken care of via miscarriage or simply not conceiving.

Yes, you can conceive and not miscarry and still have serious, even life-threatening, complications with pregnancy. She got pregnant and her doctor told her not to have the child because of the risk posed to her. She also explained how sick and depressed the pregnancy was making her, even in the first month. And yes, not wanting a child is as good as any reason to choose abortion, but it would be a bit disingenuous for her to want to make her experience public, but only reveal part of the reason behind her decision. She didn’t “pretend” to have a real medical reason for choosing to abort.

@Milena

I apologize, I agree she didn’t pretend to have a medical problem. Pregnancies are tough on the body and are taxing on most women. I know her first pregnancy was difficult.

However, I think she is pretending that it is a major factor in her decision. From what I understand from her statements it is not a “If you carry the child you will die” situation. I understand it to be a “If you carry the child to term there is a possibility you will have complications (not necessarily death).” I may be wrong in this assumption.

She shouldn’t make excuses. She chose to have an abortion because she didn’t want another kid. I am fine with that and I wish more women would make the same choice.

I think he medical excuse undermines the entire point of the whole charade. In my opinion, the point is “Abortions are not that bad, you have nothing to be scared of.” but her medical excuse turns it into “Abortions are not that bad, you have nothing to be scared of….as long as you have a medical excuse.”

Some women are perfectly healthy but simply don’t want a child. They should also know that having an abortion is OK.

Yeah, I agree, but I also don’t think Angie was trying to speak for all women who have or may have an abortion. She was simply presenting her individual story, so there is nothing wrong with adding the medical issues to the reasons why she chose to abort.

Thegoodman, there DEFINITELY is a nonhormonal version of the IUD. As I said, widespread ignorance.

There are tens of thousands of women on birth control, a .1% chance of failure still leaves literally hundreds of women inadvertently pregnant every year. Who’s to say Angie isn’t one of *them?*

It’s interesting to see Thegoodman saying that it is okay for Angie to have had the abortion but nevertheless to be trying as hard as he can to find reasons to judge and discredit her. Angie had to have done something wrong, right? There has to be some reason that we can stand in judgment of her. After all, she is a woman who admits that she (gasp!) had sex! Therefore she is clearly not a good little girl, so it is time for the men around here to exercise their rights granted under the patriarchy and tell that little girl Angie how she should behave (or how she should have behaved).

Seriously: you accuse her of being dishonest, you accuse her of engaging in something that is “attention whoreish”, you accuse her of making excuses. Why are you trying so hard to discredit her? What threat does she make towards you?

I find the whole thing interesting and quite honestly I enjoy judging people. Blog comment pages are a terrific place to do this and I don’t mean anything by any of my comments other than that they are my opinion and I enjoy discussing them.

I am skeptical of her motives because I am skeptical of everything. The truth is that despite knowing very little about Angie, I do not like her. Her tone of voice and her general attitude strike me the wrong way and I am doubting her words.

“I don’t feel good.”
“The doctor said there might be complications.”
“I don’t have time for another kid.”
“My BC malfunctioned.”

I don’t buy any of that. She doesn’t want another child. Why does she have to justify not wanting another child by creating excuses? I don’t think she does and I don’t think she should. People make excuses when they do something wrong, I don’t feel like she did anything wrong. I do however think that SHE thinks she did something wrong. She is using this thing she is ashamed of to gain attention and essentially exploiting her unborn child. Its just unnecessary and she should have called it straight from the get go rather than create a laundry list of reasons why she did it.

@Jemand
I stand corrected. Thanks for the info. I was actually told by an MD very recently that “all birth control is hormonal” and accepted her words. I just read up on the ParaGard and now I know. Thanks!

Ok, that’s ridiculous. You can’t say that she really doesn’t have any medical reasons to have an abortion and is exploiting it for attention just because you don’t like her tone of voice. Who would want that kind of attention purely for attention’s sake? The woman has received threats to her life. Just try reading the comments on her youtube account. It’s disgusting. And I don’t think she thinks she did something wrong. Did you read her post here and watch that video? She does not look like a woman racked with guilt. Try turning that skepticism toward your own gut reactions.

Thegoodman, I’m so glad we have telepaths like you to tell us what everyone’s real intentions are.

Thegoodman: Cervical caps, diaphragms and sponges (which I believe are off the market again because N9 is so unsafe) are also non-hormonal. That MD is either masquerading or shouldn’t be an MD!

Women do get pregnant with IUDs firmly in place — sometimes doctors decide to leave the device in the uterus for the entire pregnancy.

When I started to expel my Paragard, I could just feel the very tip of the frame. It would have been very easy to miss. Called PP and was told it should not be considered birth control at that point.

Very much wish American women had as many IUD choices as women in some other Western countries do, but I’m planning a summer trip to BC to get a Gynefix! http://www.contrel.be/PRODUCTS/gynefix%20info.htm

When you put yourself into the public eye you open up your entire being to scrutiny. I am simply judging Angie based on the available information and its simply my opinion.

You all seem to be mistaking my opinion for facts. The only fact is that we don’t know what is going on inside Angie’s head and we can only speculate. These are my speculations. Am I correct? I obviously think so but, I could be wrong too.

A lot of people are dishonest and they enjoy fame. Angie certainly has gotten 15 minutes of fame for a somewhat trivial medical procedure because she choose to make known to the world the finer details of it. I suppose it is a possible she is completely altruistic in this situation and truly doing it for the betterment of women everywhere. I find it more likely that she is doing it because he attention is very fun for her and despite the fact that abortions are not fun for anyone, she has found a way to make hers quite enjoyable (compared to other abortions I mean). This doesn’t sound so far fetched to me.

At this point I think the 2 options are that she is a true altruist (unlikely and according to some theorists, impossible) or she is enjoying the attention. I think the logical choice is that she enjoys the attention.

Assuming she is doing this (by this I mean making her abortion public) because she is enjoying the attention, we then have to look at her motives. I think the “enjoying the attention” part gives her plenty of motivation to exaggerate or create motives for having the abortion.

To clarify, I think her having the abortion is perfectly fine. I also think that her decision to have the abortion was not motivated by fame.

However, her decision to gain some notoriety out of the situation does carry some baggage that would motivate her to have a “good” reason to have an abortion. If someone tole me I was a baby killer, I suppose I might sleep better at night by giving them a sound reason for killing said baby (she isn’t a baby killer at all, but this is a hypothetical). Exaggerating the medical issues, exaggerate your overall well being (depressed? who isnt?), create excuses about your life style, etc..

I think my conclusion is perfectly logical but it could also be wrong. I just feel that she isn’t being completely honest to appease the nay-sayers.

@Thegoodman:

quite honestly I enjoy judging people.

Okay, why didn’t you say so before? Now we know why you’re doing your best to slander Angie in public based on scant evidence: because you enjoy it.

I know that some of us might associate that kind of behavior with the very Christianity that we have rejected, but I do know that @$$holes can come from all religions (and sometimes none at all). So I’m glad that we settled that.

Otherwise, I’ll just second what MikeTheInfidel said; I really appreciate you using your psychic abilities here to read Angie’s thoughts and share them with the rest of us.

I have not resorted to any name calling and I am not attempting to slander Angie in any way. Saying you do not like someone is not slander, it is simply an opinion. Speculating on the motivations for her actions is also not slander in any way. I assumed that letting the world know the intimate details of your life also meant they would be allowed to comment on those details. Scant evidence is plenty when forming your opinion about a person. I am not attempting to prove or disprove a scientific theory here.

I would say what I am doing is the exact opposite of what many religious people do. I am considering the possibilities of a situation and selecting the most logical one in my eyes.

Now a few of you are suggesting I do exactly what religious sheep do. –Accept what I read as fact.
–Assume Angie is a true altruist (seems like her and Jesus are the only 2 ever)
–Hold my tongue because it conflicts with what YOU want to be true.
–Support any and all atheists regardless of my own opinions of them.

I would rather not do any of those things.

@Thegoodman, why does Angie have to be a sacrificial saint OR a fame whore? You don’t honestly believe in a black/white dichotomy in the world, do you, where people are either 100% noble or 100% wicked? What camp do you fall into? I guess I must be wicked.

I suspect that she did, indeed, do this with good intentions and upon being greeted with both supportive words from other women as well as harrassment and threats from anti-choicers, began to enjoy the attention as well (she probably was gaining both justification for her decision via receiving support AND gaining affirmation for the importance of her decision upon reading the regurgitated, often unresearchered comments from anti-choicers). This, of course, is just my speculation….

I think it’s perfectly acceptable to assume that by offering her extended reasoning behind having the abortion (horrible first pregnancy, doctor’s advice, special needs child) she felt a little less scared in the process of broadcasting her experience–at least based on the assumption that people would be more forgiving of abortions linked to medical advice (which, we have obviously learned, still isn’t good enough for the anti-choice community). I don’t see what’s so wrong with even self-assured people being scared, and I’m not grasping your reasonings on why we should assume that she is somehow lying about her experiences with her first pregnancy or that she has fabricated medical advice from her doctor. Skepticism is indeed a great skill to possess, yes, but how does skepticism for her reasonings behind her decision in any way change the implications of what she’s done? Her abortion story is out there now regardless…

@Karen: As an introvert, I simply do not understand what you are talking about. No one is forcing you to publicly document YOUR hypothetical abortion, but other women should have the freedom of voice to do so if they choose. Don’t want to know about it? Don’t read it, watch it or talk about it.

I agree things are not as black and white as I might have presented them. I apologize if this is what I appeared to be saying.

I don’t believe she is some sort of master mind fabricating lies. I think she is being dishonest with herself. Anyone can come up with a million reasons why having a kid isn’t a good idea. My point is that she shouldn’t use these reasons as an excuse. She is not carrying the child to term for 1 reason only: she doesn’t want to do it. The only 3 acceptable reasons to have an abortion are:
1. You dont want a kid,
2. The birth would kill the mother,
3. The fetus has severe birth defects.

By exaggerating her medical reasons and being dishonest with herself about her reasoning she has invalidated much of the point of the entire episode. Pro-Choice needs a face that says it is a CHOICE, not a laundry list of excuses as to why abortion is a good idea. A list of excuses only validates pro-lifer claims that the choice to abort a pregnancy is selfish and immature.

I also happen to think most of the excuses she made sound selfish, immature, or exaggerated. If she had simply been honest with herself and in turn us, it would have been a much more profound situation. “Omg, a woman had an abortion simply because she wanted to. Now that is refreshing.” instead if is another “Whoopty do, another selfish women is making a bunch of lame excuses as to why she had to have an abortion.”

The excuse “I just don’t feel like myself lately” is just ridiculous. It makes her appear childish and selfish.

I do agree that she made the wise and mature decision to abort the pregnancy. What I obviously don’t agree with is what she said after she made it public.

From that list of “acceptable reasons for a woman to have an abortion,” you have omitted other perfectly legitimate reasons–such as reproductive coercion, to name one. If you even know what that is. That’s beside the point: why do we need to make lists of acceptable and unacceptable reasons? If you were pro-choice, the reason WOULD. NOT. MATTER. I don’t care why she had the abortion, really, but to suggest that a difficult pregnancy, 98-hour labor and a child with special needs are merely “selfish excuses” to cover up her real motive is to suggest that you must think that pregnancy and labor are really cake walks. I understand, really: no woman is EVER risking her life when choosing to carry a pregnancy to term, and certainly no one has ever died in childbirth. Given that you have already embarrassingly exhibited to all of us here that you don’t fully understand birth control as well as you’d like to think, I wouldn’t put these assumptions past you, either…

And what constitutes as a “selfish” abortion versus a “non-selfish” abortion? Please clarify this for me. If you are pro-choice, there are no selfish reasons to having an abortion because that right to abortion should be included in your personal freedoms–it’s all the same, like your right to choose eating at Subway versus Burger King or what music to listen to. The only people who feel abortion is a selfish decision are pro-lifers. Are you pro-life? Your lack of education on these matters and selfish accusations certainly seem to suggest so…might you be the one deluding yourself into thinking you are simply a pro-choicer with a bleeding heart for women’s choices (but, you know, only the non-selfish choices as judged by you)?

As Judge Robert Bork once said, “Convenience is becoming the theme of our culture.”
This was NO act of heroism, but a simple act of CONVENIENCE!
As of 1998, abortion was the most common elective surgical procedure performed in the U.S. 93% of all abortions are birth control (convenience) abortions. They have nothing to do with rape, incest, health of the baby, or health of the mother.
Did Jackson have a medical diagnosis and a warning from a medical doctor to NOT have more children, or did she make that “medical” decision herself? Why did Jackson NOT take precautions if she knew she wanted no more children (tubes tied, hysterectomy, etc.)? Why should the baby have to suffer for Jackson’s poor mistakes?

ANY excuse or justification for abortion is simply an attempt to escape responsibility.

I am aware that this thread has died but I have really enjoyed the conversation up to this point and didn’t see JJ’s response until just now.

My “lack of education” was only that I thought all IUDs were hormonal. That seems to be the only scientific fact I was incorrect about, I apologize and now I know; regardless it doesn’t negatively effect my arguments in any way.

My entire point is that she does not need a reason to have the abortion. If she wants an abortion, fine. If she doesn’t want an abortion, that is also fine. When she creates a laundry list of “good” reasons and likely exaggerates many of those reasons; it undermines the entire purpose of making the abortion public. It turns what could have been a profound pro-choice statement into an attention whoring charade that actually supports pro-life arguments. Those arguments are that people who have abortions are selfish and lazy, her list of reasons equated to her being selfish and lazy. She should not have provided reasons, she needed only 1 reason. That reason is “I do not want to have a child.” end of story.

Hey guys. Thegoodman is obviously a troll. He’s ignoring your well-put points and avoiding it when you out-and-out overcome him with logic and is just trying to rile people up. The best thing would be to ignore him.