Comments on: An Unnecessary Death from an Unnecessary Ceremony http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2010/07/28/an-unnecessary-death-from-an-unnecessary-ceremony/ by Hemant Mehta Mon, 28 May 2012 11:52:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.3 By: txindie http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2010/07/28/an-unnecessary-death-from-an-unnecessary-ceremony/#comment-523461 txindie Thu, 29 Jul 2010 20:11:24 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=27238#comment-523461 once...twice...three times a christian. Why did the baby need to be dunked three times? I thought once was enough. I guess there are some half converted christians out there!! once…twice…three times a christian. Why did the baby need to be dunked three times? I thought once was enough. I guess there are some half converted christians out there!!

]]> By: Enrys http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2010/07/28/an-unnecessary-death-from-an-unnecessary-ceremony/#comment-523297 Enrys Thu, 29 Jul 2010 14:20:49 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=27238#comment-523297 I'm sure because the priest said not to intervene that the church members sat in their pews until the baby died. Idiots. Get up and help the child. I’m sure because the priest said not to intervene that the church members sat in their pews until the baby died. Idiots. Get up and help the child.

]]> By: gwen http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2010/07/28/an-unnecessary-death-from-an-unnecessary-ceremony/#comment-523180 gwen Thu, 29 Jul 2010 10:53:06 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=27238#comment-523180 Oana, we have too many of our own loonies here in the good old USA to pass judgment on YOUR country. I would hope it was an isolated incident. If it happened in Oregon, it would probably be more commonplace!! Oana, we have too many of our own loonies here in the good old USA to pass judgment on YOUR country. I would hope it was an isolated incident. If it happened in Oregon, it would probably be more commonplace!!

]]> By: Hybrid http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2010/07/28/an-unnecessary-death-from-an-unnecessary-ceremony/#comment-522878 Hybrid Wed, 28 Jul 2010 22:15:13 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=27238#comment-522878 <blockquote>Oana said: Please, i ask of you but one thing. Do not brand us all as “idiots” or “religious loonies”. </blockquote> Hello Oana. Welcome. I have to say that your post got a laugh out of me. We're Americans, which means we have not only the looniest of all religous loonies, but also the loudest and proudest religous loonies... and they're usually the only ones who manage to make it into our elected government, to boot! I don't think you have much to worry about as far as us seeing your people as "idiots" because of such an event.

Oana said:
Please, i ask of you but one thing. Do not brand us all as “idiots” or “religious loonies”.

Hello Oana. Welcome. I have to say that your post got a laugh out of me. We’re Americans, which means we have not only the looniest of all religous loonies, but also the loudest and proudest religous loonies… and they’re usually the only ones who manage to make it into our elected government, to boot!

I don’t think you have much to worry about as far as us seeing your people as “idiots” because of such an event.

]]> By: Betsy http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2010/07/28/an-unnecessary-death-from-an-unnecessary-ceremony/#comment-522825 Betsy Wed, 28 Jul 2010 20:43:39 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=27238#comment-522825 how long exactly was the child under water each time it was immersed? I recall having my children in swim classes at a very young age where the very first thing they taught us was to have the child used to being underwater - complete immersion. We would purposely dunk the baby. It was pretty quick, but nobody drowned, and we never covered mouth or noses when we did it. The kids obviously swallowed and probably inhaled some water too. Anyway, I'm just wondering how long the priest held the baby under the water and if it's possible the child had some kind of condition. Not to defend the practice, but obviously they perform baptisms routinely without drowning children. how long exactly was the child under water each time it was immersed?
I recall having my children in swim classes at a very young age where the very first thing they taught us was to have the child used to being underwater – complete immersion. We would purposely dunk the baby. It was pretty quick, but nobody drowned, and we never covered mouth or noses when we did it. The kids obviously swallowed and probably inhaled some water too.
Anyway, I’m just wondering how long the priest held the baby under the water and if it’s possible the child had some kind of condition. Not to defend the practice, but obviously they perform baptisms routinely without drowning children.

]]> By: Oana http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2010/07/28/an-unnecessary-death-from-an-unnecessary-ceremony/#comment-522818 Oana Wed, 28 Jul 2010 20:27:27 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=27238#comment-522818 I feel so awful that this happened in my country (well, technically Romania =/= Moldova, but well...) I have little to say to defend my compatriots. Nor do i wish to, for what has happened is horrible. All that i CAN say is that this kind of thing will NOT be heard of again for a lot of time- as stupid as we are, we are not THAT retarded. And whilst the majority of the population is Orthodox Christian, we keep it to ourselves and do not push our beliefs on someone that happens to be a nonbeliever. Please, i ask of you but one thing. Do not brand us all as "idiots" or "religious loonies". We do have our problems, stupidity and hipocrisy IS present, but most of us are decent people. Well, excluding the ^%$#%& from the "New Right"( Noua Dreapta ), whom are basically our very own religious fanatics( "think of the kids!"," traditional family values",etc) (the site: http://www.nouadreapta.org/) Did i also mention that most of us are decent? Sorry, i just cannot stress that enough. As for the baby... my opinion on that priest would best remain unposted, lest i earn me a IP ban from this blog. Anyways, i end my plea, and i DO hope I reached some of you. Thank you. I feel so awful that this happened in my country (well, technically Romania =/= Moldova, but well…)

I have little to say to defend my compatriots. Nor do i wish to, for what has happened is horrible.

All that i CAN say is that this kind of thing will NOT be heard of again for a lot of time- as stupid as we are, we are not THAT retarded. And whilst the majority of the population is Orthodox Christian, we keep it to ourselves and do not push our beliefs on someone that happens to be a nonbeliever.

Please, i ask of you but one thing. Do not brand us all as “idiots” or “religious loonies”. We do have our problems, stupidity and hipocrisy IS present, but most of us are decent people.

Well, excluding the ^%$#%& from the “New Right”( Noua Dreapta ), whom are basically our very own religious fanatics( “think of the kids!”,” traditional family values”,etc)

(the site: http://www.nouadreapta.org/)

Did i also mention that most of us are decent? Sorry, i just cannot stress that enough.

As for the baby… my opinion on that priest would best remain unposted, lest i earn me a IP ban from this blog.

Anyways, i end my plea, and i DO hope I reached some of you.

Thank you.

]]> By: JB Tait http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2010/07/28/an-unnecessary-death-from-an-unnecessary-ceremony/#comment-522775 JB Tait Wed, 28 Jul 2010 19:17:39 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=27238#comment-522775 @miller : Yes. And it is evidence that the drowning is well advanced. http://lifeloom.com/III1Aggrawal.htm " . . . [W]ater would enter the air passages along with the inspired air. Within the air passages, this water gets mixed with the various sticky secretions present there. As the air gets in and out of the windpipe along with the respiratory efforts, this water gets churned in the windpipe, along with the sticky secretions. These secretions decrease the surface tension of water, much like soap does, with the result that a lot of foam is generated. This foam is found at the mouth in almost all cases of true drowning. @miller : Yes.
And it is evidence that the drowning is well advanced.

http://lifeloom.com/III1Aggrawal.htm
” . . . [W]ater would enter the air passages along with the inspired air. Within the air passages, this water gets mixed with the various sticky secretions present there. As the air gets in and out of the windpipe along with the respiratory efforts, this water gets churned in the windpipe, along with the sticky secretions. These secretions decrease the surface tension of water, much like soap does, with the result that a lot of foam is generated. This foam is found at the mouth in almost all cases of true drowning.

]]> By: Jeremiah http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2010/07/28/an-unnecessary-death-from-an-unnecessary-ceremony/#comment-522751 Jeremiah Wed, 28 Jul 2010 18:19:51 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=27238#comment-522751 Eh, I don't know about the 'accidental homicide' thing. I mean, of course it wasn't intentional but you are doing something that anyone with a lick of sense would realize is dangerous. The only reason he engaged in the high risk behavior was due to religious stupidity. Last time I checked, stupidity wasn't an excuse for criminal behavior. Usually people get in trouble if they engage in behavior that endangers someone elses life regardless of if they actually killed someone or not. But stuff like that if the baby didn't die then nobody would have batted an eye at it. And that is a problem in my opinion. I don't know, just seems to me that he is being cut too much of a break because it was 'accidental' while people ignore the larger issue of why would a society allow an infant to be waterboarded just to appease some silly unfounded superstition. I mean, we don't allow female genital mutilation here so why should we allow these other dangerous practices just because of the shield of religion? (yes I realize the event happened in another country, but the same stuff happens here in the US too) Society shouldn't be afraid to stand up a say, I don't care about your religion, this shit is dangerous and unnecessary and I don't care how much you whine you are going to cut it out. Change the rules that they have to wait until they are an adult to engage in something like. Eh, I don’t know about the ‘accidental homicide’ thing. I mean, of course it wasn’t intentional but you are doing something that anyone with a lick of sense would realize is dangerous. The only reason he engaged in the high risk behavior was due to religious stupidity. Last time I checked, stupidity wasn’t an excuse for criminal behavior.

Usually people get in trouble if they engage in behavior that endangers someone elses life regardless of if they actually killed someone or not. But stuff like that if the baby didn’t die then nobody would have batted an eye at it. And that is a problem in my opinion.

I don’t know, just seems to me that he is being cut too much of a break because it was ‘accidental’ while people ignore the larger issue of why would a society allow an infant to be waterboarded just to appease some silly unfounded superstition. I mean, we don’t allow female genital mutilation here so why should we allow these other dangerous practices just because of the shield of religion?

(yes I realize the event happened in another country, but the same stuff happens here in the US too)

Society shouldn’t be afraid to stand up a say, I don’t care about your religion, this shit is dangerous and unnecessary and I don’t care how much you whine you are going to cut it out. Change the rules that they have to wait until they are an adult to engage in something like.

]]> By: FresnoMikey http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2010/07/28/an-unnecessary-death-from-an-unnecessary-ceremony/#comment-522726 FresnoMikey Wed, 28 Jul 2010 17:43:53 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=27238#comment-522726 Not excusing the superstition, but Catholic clergy, and I am sure many other western Christians, simply pour water from a small pitcher over the top of the baby's head for may five seconds. I guess you have to go to the old country, Moldava, or Mississippi, to kill babies! When people live in constant emotional anxiety caused by poverty and/or hunger, they will resort prayer. When I wrestled in high school, I was so skinny and scared that I tried prayer. It didn't work. Not excusing the superstition, but Catholic clergy, and I am sure many other western Christians, simply pour water from a small pitcher over the top of the baby’s head for may five seconds. I guess you have to go to the old country, Moldava, or Mississippi, to kill babies! When people live in constant emotional anxiety caused by poverty and/or hunger, they will resort prayer. When I wrestled in high school, I was so skinny and scared that I tried prayer. It didn’t work.

]]> By: Hemant Mehta http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2010/07/28/an-unnecessary-death-from-an-unnecessary-ceremony/#comment-522696 Hemant Mehta Wed, 28 Jul 2010 16:36:46 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=27238#comment-522696 A lot of commenters are saying this is hardly a "silver lining." You're right. Poor choice of words on my part. But the three years in prison doesn't seem like much of a stretch to me. This was an "accidental homicide" and I don't think the priest intended to kill the baby. I'm not sure what the right amount of jailtime would be, but three years didn't seem too out of line. A lot of commenters are saying this is hardly a “silver lining.” You’re right. Poor choice of words on my part. But the three years in prison doesn’t seem like much of a stretch to me. This was an “accidental homicide” and I don’t think the priest intended to kill the baby. I’m not sure what the right amount of jailtime would be, but three years didn’t seem too out of line.

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