It’s the same thing, really…
The analogy is perfect.
(via Christian Nightmares)
they must be doing it wrong if he has that much blood on his hands…
It’s funny how the courts treat a bullet to the head a little differently. I think the video speaks for itself. It should definitely let Jesus heads see what kind of crap gets sold as Christian.
Now I’ll just wait while they police their own…
All who could ever in their wildest dreams take this seriously, say “aye.”
‘s what I thought. Just how stupid do pro-lifers think we are?
OMG! I would be laughing if this weren’t so scary!
Ugh. The mentality behind this naked guilt trip is incomprehensibly abysmal. The root is at the foundation of religion: “Control and subjugate women at all costs.” The cost to civilization is very high.
Can we see the next video where the same people are yelling at “welfare moms” for having kids just so they can milk the system? Yay!
*sigh* Having an abortion isn’t a quick fix or easy decision for many women. And no, going to jesus after isn’t going to make you feel all better again. This video rubbed me the wrong way :-/ As did the paper cut comment. Do I think abortions should be legal? Absolutely. But I also don’t think its fair to trivialize a growing human being. In a perfect world, birth control would never fail when you needed it, you would only get pregnant when you wanted to, every child would be born or adopted into a healthy home, and abortions simply wouldn’t be necessary.
What’s the morally relevant difference between this and the abortion of a viable fetus?
Anyone who thinks murdering a baby is comparable to abortion should be watched very closely… they do not have as good a moral sense as a typical five year old.
A baby can be cared for by anyone who is willing. A fetus, on the other hand must be a burden on only one (sometimes unwilling) pregnant woman. Pregnancy is a risk to a woman’s health and occupation.
Only a complete wingnut digbat could compare these two things directly. Ethics always involve some kind of trade-off with a goal to maximize happiness and minimize suffering. Why don’t people get this into their heads???
Wait…they didn’t eat what they killed? That’s just wrong.
I don’t know why I’m not used to christians making highly inaccurate clams anymore. most abortions are done up until 10-12 weeks.(only 7 for chemical ones i.e. pills.) The child’s brain doesn’t even develop until around week 27. But If christians told the truth then their propaganda campaigns would have very little effect.
You must admit – it is strange now horrifying the act in this video is, when if it were 2 or3 months earlier it would be generally fine with you. (you realize that even without the gunshot, abortion is as violent and bloody as what was shown, right?)
Obviously this is an extreme video – but to say that one can’t be even compared to the other is a bit cowardly.
I wrote a short story(which the church loved and had me turn into a skit)similar to that when I was a teenager in my anti-abortion attacks. My own memories make me sick sometimes.
on a good note- that webiste has expired!
Thanks for bringing this to my attention. The abortion world (as far as I know and I keep a very close eye on what’s going on) was not aware of this video. This is horrific. I am shaking I am so mad. Except to see something up at Abortion Gang in the near future.
When I’m told that abortion is exactly the same as murder then I ask “What should be done to the doctors who perform them, the nurses who help, and the women who have them?”. You can imagine that the responses are vastly different than when I ask what should be done to a woman who asks a doctor and a nurse to kill her birthed baby.
If abortion is murder then the women who have them, the doctors who perform them, and the nurses who assist, should all be either jailed for life or given the death penalty, but I have yet to find someone, aside from the occasionally murderous whack-job on the news, who would advocate that.
Just how stupid do pro-lifers think we are?
Whenever two views are diametrically opposed to each other, both sides tend to view the other side as insanely stupid. That’s the only way people can keep from being forced to actually examine their own view.
We are lucky that science and reason give us tools to monitor our own prejudice and allow us to examine our own view critically. This lets us change our mind when we can be demonstrated to be wrong. Christians do not have such a mechanism and are stuck with believing that we are insanely stupid. Any other viewpoint forces self examination and allows for the possibility that their view may be wrong. That’s why they’re taught that their view, and the Word of God, is infallible; to prevent anybody from examining real evidence and changing their mind.
As such, they think you are insanely stupid, and criminally so at that. After all, God’s Laws are supreme to them and should be enforced by real police, not just imagined angels.
The problem is that people have an incorrect idea of what defines a being as “human”. It’s not having human DNA (else there’d be a holocaust every time I scratched my nose), nor is it the ability to feel pain, else smacking your dog when it bites someone would be considered abuse.
What makes you human is your rational mind; the one thing you have different than an animal. Until the fetus has human brainwave patterns, it can’t have the same rights as I do.
I wonder how the antiabortion christians would react, if a gay advocacy group came out with a video showing a gay 15 year old hanging from a church steeple.
I. Just. Whaaaat?
Garren, here is a list of the differences.
1. The viable fetus lacks a nervous system capable of forming and recalling memories.
2. The mother is nearly a year into the commitment when they shoot the baby, where most abortions are within weeks of discovery of pregnancy.
3. Legally, a person gains individual rights after birth.
4. The baby can survive without the mother.
5. The couple made a commitment to the baby by buying clothing, setting up a room, having a family photo taken, etc. Aborted fetuses have no commitments made to them.
Those are the first 5 that came to mind.
@Blacksheep, there is no comparison. For one, murder is illegal and in the US and Canada, abortion is not. Second, do you even know what a fetus looks like? Here are some pictures of a fetus at 5 weeks. How is that remotely similar to shooting a 5 year old, or even week old infant? In Canada, 90% of abortions occur before 12 weeks. I don’t have the specific numbers for the US, but the majority are in the first trimester. In the US, the primary reason women have second trimester abortions is because they can’t raise $500 for a first trimester abortion. Late term abortions are done on non-viable fetuses or to save the mother’s life. Murdering a child cannot be done for a good reason.
0.4% of abortions in Canada occur after 20 weeks.
At the end of the day, the woman should never be forced to be pregnant; it’s inhumane.
I thought it was hilarious! Disturbing, but hilarious. I love how ridiculous and exaggerated these issues can get. I think seeing a baby’s face and spending even a small amount of time raising it provides the true difference between infanticide and abortion. But, as sick as it may be, I laughed at the gunshot. Not because of the idea of murdering a baby, but the idea of the video. Religion is ridiculous.
If it’s The Same Thing, then why do they have to make the shitty analogy? Why not just show an acted out version of The Real Thing?
Besides, isn’t the child now playing hopscotch with Baby Jesus, and isn’t that A Good Thing™?
(Note to self: Random Caps are Fun!)
As such, they think you are insanely stupid, and criminally so at that. After all, God’s Laws are supreme to them and should be enforced by real police, not just imagined angels.
Yeah, and isn’t that one of their key hypocrisies — that even though they believe “this” world is only temporary and impermanent and “fallen” (i.e. incapable of governing itself) still for some reason its very material occupants are expected to do God’s heavy lifting?
Haha, yeah you would have to be pretty whacky to advocate that… or just live in Nebraska:
or South dakota:
And if that WTF channel isn’t good enough, we have nurses taking babies to military compounds, strapping them with explosives, and throwing them at… Wisconsin protesters. That is if the exploding illegal immigrant babies don’t stop them first.
Am I the only one getting hungry?
The best part is that, until the very end of the video, you can’t tell whether they’re having a conversation about abortion, or about whether or not they should start trying to have children. This leads to the totally unintended moral that failing to have unprotected sex at every opportunity is the same as murdering babies.
@Revyloution “The baby can survive without the mother.”
I’m asking for morally relevant differences between infants and viable fetuses, both of which can survive without the mother.
“The viable fetus lacks a nervous system capable of forming and recalling memories.”
Once that level of development in place, would you agree the analogy to killing an infant is more reasonable?
“The couple made a commitment to the baby by buying clothing, setting up a room, having a family photo taken, etc. Aborted fetuses have no commitments made to them.”
If a pregnant woman paints a nursery and posts an ultrasound photo to Facebook, is she then morally unjustified in having an abortion?
I’m pretty sure the people claiming to be the “good guys” come up with more fu*ked up videos/pictures/posters than anyone I know, I and my friends have a great sense of humor.
Wow. I guess if their objective was to get pro-choice people to facepalm themselves into stupidity–then mission accomplished.
People who find themselves in this position, with escalating financial hardships AFTER they’ve already had a baby, would certainly have benefitted from a little PLANNED parenthood. And funny thing, there just HAPPENS to be an organization that provides just such planning. Abortion is certainly something that should be avoided whenever possible, and only utilized as a last resort, but there are plenty of OTHER options that young couples can explore that would help them AVOID becoming parents before they are ready. Anyone who opposes organizations like Planned Parenthood, and the invaluable work they do, might as well be walking around SHACKLING babies to unprepared young people.
Yaay, an abortion debate on the internet!
I’m sure we’ll all come away from this more personally enriched and knowledgeable, with a better understanding of truth.
Oh, wait, no we won’t, but that won’t stop this thread from reaching 75+ outraged comments.
I actually thought that was a parody video right up until the text came on to the screen.
But I guess it’s rather like Poe’s Law…
I’ve always felt abortion will be an ongoing gray area of ethics. A wanted child would begin at conception for eager parents. Where an unwanted pregnancy would be an adverse effect of sexual activity. As an aethiest and someone who has been the male in a couple who has had an abortion the experience was incredibly traumatic. Why on earth anyone would not want birth control access and education is by far the greatest atrocity. Beyond ethics, it is a womens choice, the process will take a tremendous toll on her health/energy and emotions. Prenervous system development makes sense but nothing about it may ever feel right. Freedom to choose.
(you realize that even without the gunshot, abortion is as violent and bloody as what was shown, right?)
Without the gunshot, my period every month is as violent and bloody as what was shown.
And I have a hard time taking seriously anyone saying “Besides being located inside of another person and several months of crucial development what’s the difference?” because that’s a pretty big difference.
This is just about the funniest thing I have watched today, especially when Daddy Dearest says, “Problem solved.”
That may be because it made me think of this comedy short from SMBC Theater: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_AzEeIGznU
What this and that shooting santa video teaches me is that under no circumstances are you to allow a fundie christian access to a shot gun. First of all, you should never barrel-tag a baby, you ruin the meat. There is not much meat there to begin with, and the last thing you want to do is spend hours after hours picking out little lead balls out of your babyback ribs.
Secondly, how exactly did he use that shotgun, that ended up getting his hands and shirt all bloody, but not the shotgun itself?
And if you have to go to this much work to try and convince people that two things are actually the same, you’re almost certainly wrong.
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
PROBLEM SOLVED YOU STUPID FUCKING BABY!
“I’m asking for morally relevant differences between infants and viable fetuses, both of which can survive without the mother.”
Show me how, without the use of modern medicine, you can remove a ‘viable fetus’ from a mother and have it survive. The fetus is dependent on the mother until it is born.
“Once that level of development in place, would you agree the analogy to killing an infant is more reasonable?”
That level never ‘takes place’, there is no line of demarcation where consciousness takes hold. It’s a gradual process that begins in the womb, and completes well into adolescence.
“If a pregnant woman paints a nursery and posts an ultrasound photo to Facebook, is she then morally unjustified in having an abortion?”
Perhaps. Morality is a personal thing, not an absolute thing. Some people think it’s immoral to step on ants. Other people think it’s moral mutilate their children’s genitals. It would be up to the woman to determine if it was moral or not.
abortion is murder masturbate is a genocide
in the catholic logic that every new member is important, making a baby an abandon it to an orphanage is a good thing, because he’s gonna be catholic
abortion is a right, people fought for it you can say it’s a bad choice, but you can’t say that’s a murder !
It is not the same, simply because a fetus doesnt have the neural capacity to be considered a sentient human being. That is the main thing to keep in mind here. We are perfectly capable of destroying life as a society, and it is accepted – only when that life is a thinking human are we opposed.
I would set a cut-off for when abortion is allowed. Third trimester, or even late in the second. Its all about when the nervous system begins to form. But a single celled zygote, or a blastula, or a three week old fetus is definately not the same as a full grown baby.
This video is for anyone who thinks the anti-choice movement has any intellectual grounding.
I know several women who have had abortions, and they’re simply not the kind of people in this video. This is so over the top, it doesn’t warrant serious consideration. I bet a lot of moderate Christians hate this video.
Exodus 21:22-25: “And if men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child so that she has a miscarriage, yet there is no further injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman’s husband may demand of him; and he shall pay as the judges decide. But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.”
A mother’s life and a fetus… Not the Same Thing, according to the Bible.
Sergio: That “third term cutoff” you advocate pretty much already exists. Late-term abortions are generally risky procedures, and only performed when the mother is in such serious medical crisis that it’s still considered the less likely to kill her than completing the pregnancy. (The analogous situation there would be when you have conjoined twins who cannot both survive separately, and who will likely die if not separated due to inadequate blood-flow.)
Garren: As for the non-existence of a stronger (say, federal) regulation regarding late-term abortions, you’d have to ask the Republican party about that.
See, they passed a bill back in the 90s that would’ve shut down all the D&X procedures except to save the life of the mother. Clinton vetoed it because it didn’t include a “health” exemption, which the GOP argued was too broad.
Yet somehow, they completely forgot about that bill a few years later when they controlled both houses of Congress, the White House, AND had appointed 7 of the 9 SCOTUS justices. Suddenly, late-term abortion became something no one really cared about. Why, it’s almost as if they wanted to keep the issue alive to use it as a campaign talking-point, so they could then get elected on the votes of the Religious Right, and continue to give corporations tax benefits.
So what should be the appropriate criminal punishment for women who have abortions? Execution?
The ridiculousness of it… it’s just sick.
The obvious difference is that an infant has been successfully separated from the mother’s body, and a viable fetus has not. This actually matters a lot.
There are also differences in degrees of development of the brain (in particular) and other organs, depending on how far along the pregnancy is. There is a big difference in likelihood of survival.
The term ‘viable’ for a fetus is rather imprecise. For each additional week of pregnancy, the chance that the fetus will survive (if born at that point) increases. But even fetuses past the point of supposed viability are at much greater chance of dying if prematurely delivered.
I think many people who are in favor of abortion rights feel varying degrees of discomfort with late term abortions, and the later the term the greater the discomfort. But in our society these are rarely performed, and usually only done due to extreme health problems of either the mother or fetus. I had never really understood the need for late term abortions until I read some letters from people after George Tiller was murdered, expressing how he had helped them in extraordinarily difficult physical circumstances (and no, it wasn’t about their ability to pay the bills).
Spending a lot of time arguing about late term abortions doesn’t seem very practical. The anti-abortion crowd is actually much more concerned with early term abortions, because that’s when most abortions are performed. And when they can be performed easily, and for any reason at all.
There are bad arguments for the morality of abortion.
Sentience/neurotypicality: Bad argument. Brain damaged people might be less sentient than a newborn.
Ability to survive unaided: Bad argument. We aid preemies.
I still support the right of women to decide whether or not they have to give birth as a result of some kind of unprotected sex or failed protection. Saying that a woman must take a pregnancy to term if she chose to have sex is a bit like saying that the child is her punishment for violating antiquated views of human sexuality, in my view.
Oh, and btw… every single sperm in my body has a chance of becoming a human being, given the necessary conditions, but nobody’s calling me Hitler for occasionally … enjoying myself.
MikeTheInfidel, the sin of Onan will damn you to hell! And make your palms hairy! And you’ll go blind!!
I was having a discussion about abortion just yesterday with a self described ‘cafeteria Catholic’. She said that while she was opposed to abortion, she thought it should still be legal.
I gave her my position on the whole debate, and she loved it.
“If you don’t have a uterus, you shouldn’t be able to vote on what other people do with theirs.” – Me.
It is not possible to prevent abortions. Abortions occurred long before they were legal and will continue to occur as long as there are unwanted pregnancies. SAFE abortion, now, that’s another issue. SAFE abortion is in great danger.
This video is disgusting.
I seriously laughed after reading your post on preserving the meat of a newborn from pellet damage…
And Mike? Your statement :
“Saying that a woman must take a pregnancy to term if she chose to have sex is a bit like saying that the child is her punishment for violating antiquated views of human sexuality, in my view.”
Is exactly why this was done!!!
I am especially perplexed about the extreme pro-lifers views that any and all abortion is a sin, even in the cases of rape or incest victims.
What a horrible sense of morality with no justification.
Was I the only one who thought this was going to be a satire, and he was going to go jerk off in the bathroom?
@Blacksheep: you realize that even without the gunshot, *birth* is as violent and bloody as what was shown, right?
That is actually one reason I support abortion rights. I think a woman has a right to deadly self-defense against the serious bodily harm inherent in birth. (And I had two kids naturally – I think it is pain and injury worth suffering if you choose it, but it shouldn’t be forced on anyone.)
What would have been inhumane, Blacksheep, would have been forcing me to give birth as a 15 year old. At that point it was aborting a 9 week fetus, or killing myself. There are a few asshole anti-choicers out there who would be perfectly fine with the latter, since then I would have been sent to judgment at the feet of their gawd that much sooner. -insert eyeroll here-
What would have been inhumane would have been to force me to continue a doomed pregnancy, had the amniocentesis come back positive for Edwards syndrome (trisomy 18) with my third wanted pregnancy. See, my son showed cysts on the brain at my 20 week ultrasound, and since I already have a child with Down syndrome (trisomy 21) this was particularly concerning. Edwards syndrome fetuses are rarely carried to term, and if they do make it to birth they have a 90% chance of dying within the first month, and the few remaining not long after. They never attain consciousness, and the organ systems are too messed up even to make organ donation a possibility. It would have been inhumane to make me continue the pregnancy, wondering each day if I am carrying a dead fetus, to eventually have to go through birth to watch an infant die, for my other two children to have had a brother only to watch him die in the NICU. By the time my amniocentesis results came back, and we found a provider for an abortion, it would have been too late where we were living. Somehow, since military insurance won’t cover abortion, we would have had to come up with money for the surgery and travel, likely to Kansas at the time. Because THIS is what later-term abortion looks like, not a woman deciding one day to kill off a viable fetus because she wants to fit into a dress.
People make excuses like “zygotes don’t have brains”, but if you look at them under a microscope, you can’t help but see their humanity with your own eyes.
I tell ya! That was not how they taught us to prepare supper in cooking class.
That was hilariously bad, but it doesn’t hold a candle to the bunnies in blenders one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpuDbY3xU20
No, TheRealistMom, you don’t understand. What would be inhumane is to prevent you from that experience, since as a woman you (and I) are are Baby Containers, and it would be far more inhumane for us to end an devastating pregnancy-gone-wrong than to proceed as God planned–that gut-wrenching experience is exactly what we are “created” to do, after all, and to prevent it would be denying our Place in Life. In fact, there is no such thing as being inhumane to us, because we are just Baby Containers, with our only value being our internal contents. And you can’t trust Baby Containers, because Baby Containers have no brains and must have decisions made for them by the Nut Sacks, whose Wisdom and Glory dwarf our meager feminine abilities.
God, that’s sickening to even type out. But that does seem to be how they reason this. Or at least, when any of them are forced to admit, as you said, to what late-term abortion really looks like. Even when you can get them to admit to that, most people will bend over backwards to qualify and justify their views even more. My sister had two co-workers arguing about abortion. The anti-choicer insisted that any potential baby would choose not to be aborted (as if we can know exactly what a potential human thinks before they exist) and we must respect that by stripping women of their right to choose. The other, a product of incest, has numerous serious problems and declared passionately that she would have preferred to be aborted rather than live the way she has had to. The anti-choicer just closed her eyes, plugged her ears, and insisted that the other woman had actually lived a wonderful life and had no problems at all and wouldn’t really have wanted to be aborted, over her companion’s continued insistence that she lives in constant pain and degradation and would have preferred never to have been born. Finally, she called the anti-choicer an idiot, or a moron, or something.
My sister, the tone-troll, was completely on the anti-choicer’s side, because she felt there was no reason to be rude and call the anti-choicer names. Never mind how completely rude it was of the anti-choicer to flippantly brush aside her companion’s miserable personal experience and insist that her life was actually perfect and not painful or unpleasant at all–no, the real horror comes in when someone is called an idiot. Gasp! Now that was entirely uncalled-for! The anti-choicer, however, is considered to be polite by default, no matter how vile or sociopathic her words happen to be.
So, anyway, my point is that even if you could get them to admit your experience isn’t their assumption of “a woman deciding one day to kill off a viable fetus because she wants to fit into a dress” (much less the fact that your experience is the norm and not the exception), they’ll just come up with some justification about how a horrible experience like that was actually a wonderful and life-affirming experience that made your world richer, and how terrible it would be to deprive you of carrying out your one true Purpose–even if it means you and/or your baby die in pain. Black means white, left means right, and word games are their entire world–it’s all they have, in lieu of actual arguments or evidence.
. (you realize that even without the gunshot, abortion is as violent and bloody as what was shown, right?)
Oh FFS, it’s MY F-ING BLOOD! It’s bloody because when I get an abortion I’m getting SURGERY.
And you have a strange definition of ‘violent’ there. Abortions are not violent according to the usual definition: “* acting with or marked by or resulting from great force or energy or emotional intensity;”
Anti-choice protests, on the other hand…
I am almost surprised they did not actually show the shooting. Just for the effect. Once you distort reality, why not go all the way.
Christians walk among us. Scary!!
Using the same troll logic of the video, we could solve the same problem of all this anti-choice legislation being proposed in government by putting a bullet into every republican’s head.
Ohhhhhhh boyyyyy. First off: Disclaimer: I did not read any other comments on this post. Second: Disclaimer: There will probably be cussing herein.
What the *&^*$&^$&^%(&???? You know what is sad, is that as someone who went to a religious college, I know DOZENS of people who think this is entirely valid. They would not see it as a joke, or funny. They REALLY THINK THIS.
Second??? Seriously, the damage done by abortion is in large part due to the guilt WHICH THE VIDEO WAS PUTTING ON YOU. It’s like when I was raped, I had to get a blood panel for STDs. You could feel the disgust pouring off the tech. I actually felt compelled to explain to her that I wasn’t a slut. Thank you very much.
Nobody who I know, who HAS had an abortion, did so lightly. And none of them were smug in there homes, doing it so they could “just take the time, for just US”. It was due to the fact that their families were religous, and would LITERALLY have killed them. As in honor killings. Or another mother with several children already, who knew that one more would drive the entire family over the edge into total abject poverty. Yes, sometimes it works out. Yes, sometimes you’re screwing everyone else. Or the people I know who were raped or sexually assaulted, by strangers, friends, or partners. I myself had to face the question because the Good Christian Man who decided my No was just for form repeatedly raped me, and after he beat me into submission and confusion, didn’t like the feel of condoms. I had to decide whether I would abort, or allow him access to my life (and probably cart blanche to my body), wherever I went, FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE.
Next: What the F*&%&^&($ were you thinking, when you say, this video is not meant to condemn you, but to lead you to forgiveness and healing. You may have not noticed, but calling people selfish, whores, or murderers, KINDA takes away your moral superiority to forgive. Or to imply they need forgiven. Think about the people I talked about above. You think they are ever going to beg your sorry, supercilious ass for forgiveness? Or the god you’re standing in for? Do you really think they SHOULD?
Unfortunately, you probably do. Like the lady who came to pray for me in church. God doesn’t GET to forgive me.
As with any freedom, sometimes people are going to use it in ways you dislike. Yes, there will be people who abort because the timing is bad. YOU DON”T GET TO DECIDE THAT FOR THEM.
I understand that you REALLY, TRULY think abortion is equal to murder. I dislike it myself. But I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again, the only thing worse than having to make that choice is not having the ability to make it.
So kiss my lily white ass, presenters who assume we are all just getting abortions to protect our smug, selfish, white Anglo lives in (did you notice they had a HOUSE?) our egocentric lives.
Your judgement comes across as judgement, not as mercy. You aren’t here, you aren’t helping, and you sure as hell don’t get to tell us there’s forgiveness for a choice most of us didn’t want to have to make.
(P.S. Kudos to an acquaintance who got pregnant three times – in spite of condoms, the pill, AND a vasectomy…and kept them all.)
@ Holytape: “What this and that shooting santa video teaches me is that under no circumstances are you to allow a fundie christian access to a shot gun.”
The ‘prolifers’ don’t just think abortion is murder, everyone I have talked to thinks birth control is also murder and should be illegal. Next time you talk to a prolifer ask them about birth control. All the media should always ask about birth control when they interview a prolifer.
I was waiting for the message at the end where Jesus brings money to your house to pay the bills. But that didn’t happen.
What a fucking twisted video. I wonder if those actors in that video can sleep at night after have to act through that, let alone being able to stomach watching the final version.
Whoever thinks in this logic… senseless.
Wait a minute.
No, no, no, no, no, fucking no. During the first trimester, the fetus is just a bit of cells. In the second trimester, it is an organized fetus similar to a cat or reptile and certainly cannot be considered alive.
I love how fundies think every sperm is sacred. Dumbasses
Focusing on the viable fetus issue is a red herring, a common diversionary tactic.
Infants born at 22 weeks gestation have a 9.8 percent survival rate. At 23 weeks, the survival rate is 53 percent and at 24 weeks, it’s 67 percent. At 25 weeks, an infant’s chances of survival are 82 percent. After 26 weeks, the survival rate is near 100 percent.
This doesn’t address the serious issue of birth defects from premature births, which are serious, live-long, and often debilitating.
Figures from the most recent CDC Abortion Surveillance report: The majority (62.3%) of abortions in 2007 were performed at ?8 weeks’ gestation and 92% were performed at ?13 weeks’ gestation. Few abortions (7.2%) were performed at 14–20 weeks’ gestation, and 1.3% were performed at ?21 weeks’ gestation.
In cases of abortions performed after 21 weeks, they are for medical reasons. Either the fetus will not actually survive because of a serious birth defect, or the life of the mother is threatened, or there’s been some sort of accident requiring a choice between the woman and the fetus.
While it is entirely possible there’s some idiot out there who doesn’t realize she’s pregnant for 6 months and suddenly says “Hey, I want an abortion!” and she might possibly be able to find a doctor who would actually perform said abortion just because she doesn’t want to be pregnant any more, the chances of that being the case are so incredibly miniscule as to not even be worth the dignity of discussion.
Late term abortions are very rare, and always a painful choice is being made. NO one is going around slaughtering viable fetuses willy nilly without there being some serious life-threat at stake.
The overwhelming majority of abortions, and the ones that the Supreme Court protected as the absolute right of the woman to obtain with the decision in Roe v. Wade, are performed prior to 13 weeks.
The Supreme Court has ALREADY protected the burgeoning rights of the fetus with its ruling in Roe v. Wade by their statement that after viability, the state has a reasonable interest in protecting the fetus’ rights and is allowed to put restrictions on late term abortions. I haven’t specifically checked, but I think that all of the states have laws on the books regulating how, when, and for what reasons late term abortions are permitted.
MISCARRIAGE MANSLAUGHTER IT’S THE SAME THING
Of course this video is an extreme illustration to make the point that an abortion is killing a baby and despite all of the horror stories of mother’s safety,rape and incest, the overwhelming majority of abortions are done for convenience of the mother and her partner. An example of the only place in our society that we allow the innocent victim of other people’s choices to pay the cost.
What victim? ‘Victim’ implies a person. The only person directly involved in terminating an unwanted pregnancy is the pregnant woman.
How would you punish her, Robert W? How?
Oh, but wait. Even more genius in the works…
http://thinkprogress.org/2011/02/23/bobby-franklin-miscarriage-naturally# Force women to prove miscarriage happened naturally or face felony charges. Now that is real compassion. Yes it makes such logical sense now. The jobs the GOP wants to create are in the justice system and by just building more jails to house all of the un-American sinners that they would prefer to see go away.
@Blacksheep, there is no comparison. For one, murder is illegal and in the US and Canada, abortion is not. Second, do you even know what a fetus looks like? Here are some pictures of a fetus at 5 weeks. How is that remotely similar to shooting a 5 year old, or even week old infant? In Canada, 90% of abortions occur before 12 weeks.
One thing to note is that at six weeks, a baby’s brain waves begin.
Why are you showing me a five month old fetus, especially If you are calling out that most abortions occur before 12 weeks?
Do even know what a 12 week old fetus looks like?
Like a baby!
I was not judgemental in my posting. I was simply disagreeing with the notion that to even compare killing a 12 week old – or whatever age – fetus to one that has been born is not as insane as the posters here say that it is. In my opinion it’s a much more weighty thing than the reactions here imply that it is. “OMG WTF This is the funniest thing I’ve ever seen.” and that people who are upset by the idea of abortion are “dumbasses.”
And people like DocShinobi who said,
In the second trimester, it is an organized fetus similar to a cat or reptile and certainly cannot be considered alive.
Second trimester? you meen up to 24 weeks? babies can be born and survive before that time. You don’t consider them alive? I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt on that one and assume you meant something else.
@Karen “Spending a lot of time arguing about late term abortions doesn’t seem very practical. The anti-abortion crowd is actually much more concerned with early term abortions, because that’s when most abortions are performed.”
Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I brought up the question of aborting viable fetuses because that is what Pro Life advocates often use to debate Pro Choice principles. It’s every bit as fair game as using extremely early points in human development to criticize Pro Life principles.
I’m concerned that neither side — as typically argued — does a good job of developing consistent justifications for their position. The opposite side can easily (and rightly!) exploit this weakness.
I don’t exactly get the difference… beside the picture… and the fact she already went through birth lol all that work for nothing