The Problems with Jainism

I don’t write about my parent’s religion here very often, but since this weekend marks the 16th Biennial Jaina Convention, we might as well discuss Jainism.

For those who don’t know, Jainism’s major tenet is non-violence. If you know anything about Jainism, that’s what you know about it. Unfortunately, that one idea seems to negate all the other nonsense Jainism propagates.

Sam Harris wrote about the non-violence aspect of Jainism in The End of Faith (where he argued that even moderate religions were harmful):

A rise of Jain fundamentalism would endanger no one. In fact, the uncontrollable spread of Jainism throughout the world would improve our situation immensely. We would lose more of our crops to pests, perhaps (observant Jains generally will not kill anything, including insects), but we would not find ourselves surrounded by suicidal terrorists or by a civilization that widely condones their actions.

Even Richard Dawkins said as much in a 2007 interview with Terrence McNally:

TM: In other words, if it were just a philosophical belief that had no impact on the world, fine.

RD: Exactly. I don’t think you’ll find many people criticizing any gentle religion, like Jainism.

It’s true — You rarely see criticism of Jainism. But if we’re concerned with spreading the truth instead of religious beliefs, we shouldn’t stay silent. So what’s wrong with Jainism?

A lot. I know because I grew up in the faith and my parents still practice it.

While the “non-violence” aspect is admirable, Jains still believe in plenty of bullshit:

  • Jains believe in a never-ending, cyclical time cycle, with phases of “rising” and “falling” happiness. Each phase lasts several thousands of years. This is all fiction, of course.
  • Jains believe that they can accumulate and shed karma and this impacts their future lives (reincarnation). There’s no evidence of this.
  • Jains support being free of materialism — not because it can be destructive in and of itself, but because it’ll allow you to more easily break free from the cycle of reincarnation. They’re doing a good thing for the wrong reason.
  • Jains don’t believe in a god, per se, but they do believe in supernatural beings who have broken free of the reincarnation cycle to attain Nirvana. In fact, there are 24 beings who have done that… and we know their names. We memorized their names as children. Though there’s no evidence any of them ever “attained Nirvana.”
  • Jainism encourages an 8-day-long (or worse), unhealthy fasting during the holy time of the year. During the fast, you may only consume water that’s been pre-boiled.
  • The Jain rules regarding a vegetarian diet seem like they’re made up on the spot. Eggs are bad, but milk is ok. Potatoes and other food from the ground are bad, but there are exceptions depending on the day. Alcohol is forbidden, but young Jains go to bars all the time. The rules make hypocrisy rampant… but almost unavoidable.

An article profiling a Jain “nun” by Morgan Wilson in the Houston Chronicle shows just how absurd the faith can be:

“There are plenty of difference between Hinduism and Jainism; the biggest being the gods” said [Jainesh Mehta (no relation), vice president of the Jain Vishva Bharati-Preksha Meditation Center]. “Essentially, we don’t believe in the same things; we share eight demi-gods with Hinduism but even then we don’t worship them like a Hindu would. But we do have similar faith traits, that being giving up world materials to achieve Nirvana.”

“The karma you accumulate in this life and previous lifetimes will determine your condition for your next lifetime,” Mehta said. “We associate karma to be like a black cloud. The more karma you have the more ignorant you are; the less karma you have the more aware you’ve become.”

Demi-gods, nirvana, “next lifetime,” karma? Those beliefs sound like something out of Scientology. But Jains take them very seriously.

The funny thing is that so many Jains go into scientific fields, and yet, I never hear Jains say this stuff is untrue. They find a way to compartmentalize it and ignore it. When you ask them what they believe, they’ll say “Non-violence”… but they won’t mention the several levels of Hell and multiple levels of Heaven.

They’ll do research in a lab one day, and then sing a chant praising prophets, saints, and “liberated souls” the next, without ever realizing the two worlds ought to be colliding. (I sang that particular mantra every day growing up. Can you imagine how I felt when I finally figured out what it actually meant?)

As far as religions go, Jainism isn’t the worst one you’ll find. But there are plenty of lies that it spreads that we need to call out. Young Jains should be concerned with the truth and they ought to know that the religious leaders in the temple are trying to lead them away from it — as most religious leaders everywhere do. The fact that even the most outspoken atheists put on kid gloves when dealing with it is upsetting.

It’s always nice to see a religion that advocates kindness and respect, but that shouldn’t make it immune from criticism when it’s warranted. Jains are very bad at being self-critical, and it has plenty of beliefs that are untrue. I’d love to see a Jain organization, or blogger, or adherent offer up the evidence for their supernatural beliefs because I’m convinced there is none.

Note to my parents (who’ll probably never see this, anyway):

This is why I never had a desire for you to set me up with a “nice Jain girl.”

  • John Small Berries

    Demi-gods, nirvana, “next lifetime,” karma? Those beliefs sound like something out of Scientology.

    Only the “next lifetime” thing, actually. Once you’ve paid to run out all the “engrams” (bad memories) from your life, you’re told that you’ve been reincarnated hundreds or thousands of times – and you have to pay for more auditing to run out all the engrams from your past lives as well.

    Though I suppose an argument could be made for “demigods”, since they claim to gain the ability to be “at cause over MEST” (have complete control of matter, energy, space and time) once they reach “Operating Thetan level VIII”.

  • http://a-million-gods.blogspot.com/ Avicenna

    Well it is a Hindu ofshoot religion. It’s expected to be a bit wacky and have crazy dietary restrictions (unlike christianity which has deitary restrictions). And of course there is no evidence. Jainism was founded as a deist/atheistic rejection but a lot of the ceremony is due to contact with hinduism. Including the hindu adoption of Jain saints as gods. It does that to a lot of religions.

    I am an expat living in Chennai. Chennai is kind of weird because it has the most bizzare mix of religion on earth. It is the home of St. Thomas Mount, the place where doubting Thomas was said to have been martyred and interred. His remains were taken by the portugese but the Tamil Christians are really old. The thing is a lot of tamil hindus also pray to jesus (yesua/yesudas) as a result of the long association between the two faiths.

    It’s older practitioners of jainism were rather self destructive particularly the dig/svet ambara sects of jainism. There is also the whole non violence idea which in India often manifests itself in Jains giving shelter to creatures such as rats which spread the plague which I don’t think is very sane. The Mumbai Plague during the 90s was blamed on this practice.

    I don’t think I have heard of any cases of fasting till death but I do know it was a practice as well and it may be more common in the north where the more devoted jains live.

    The tamil jains have adopted some aspects of tamil culture including the ear piercing ceremony which isn’t really good for children.

    That’s really all the instances of slightly mental things from Jainism. It’s not a very overt religion in terms of telling others what they should and shouldn’t do.

    Oh. There is the bit where the only people who can attain nirvana/morksha are men. But it may have changed in recent years.

  • http://triangulations.wordpress.com Sabio Lantz

    Wow, I saw this on planet Atheist — no idea it was you till I followed the link.
    The “Compartmentalization” thing you mentioned is true.
    And I think even Atheists compartmentalize == it is not just a brain function used for religion. I did a short post on it with a fun picture.

  • http://www.laughinginpurgatory.com/ Andrew Hall

    Isn’t karma just a way to place blame on the victim? Oh, sorry that you were born blind or mentally disabled. It must be all that bad karma you racked up in your past life, shame on you.

    • John2find

      Ok here is my answer:

      1. If you blive in God (some kind of abrahmic god) the the answer is:
      so do you want to blame the crime on god , so the disabled persons can always think of that God has done injustice to me.(as in abrahamic religion their is no incarnations)
      2. If you are an atheist (but not jain): ist all mattre of chance you are born as blind. So that that persons can think of this world is just a chance let me fuck this as even this will be a chance with no consequence.

      My explanation: this is appearing to you blaim, but its the result from which we must take lesson.

    • Kushal Singavi

      Hi Andrew,

      I am born in a Jain Family and practice this Jain way of life as much as I can.

       You are the maker of your destiny, your life, your happiness and your sufferings. YES you are born blind because of your past KARMA but I will do whatever I can to help you with your limited visual sense faculty. Any HUMAN will not  say “shame on you” That statement itself is a cause of accumulation of karma.

      Kushal Singavi    

    • Balachandar

      Perfectly put!

  • Steve

    I don’t think it’s just Jainism. It seems to me that westerners in general have a habit of giving a pass to all eastern and tribal religions – the myths of the “inscrutable East” and the “Noble Savage,” respectively.

    • John2find

       Ok that appears tribal , but unlike west we have not given abrahamic reilgion that ask for blood of Humans. be it blood of Jesus for its people or be it blood of non-believers by islam.

    • Vir

      I agree Steve, its weird that westerners give stupid beliefs a pass when it comes to eastern religions. Its still bullshit. Btw I live in India.

  • Bill

    (unlike christianity which has deitary restrictions).

    I’d spit my coffee on the monitor, if it weren’t in the microwave…

    It’s feeling “compartmentalized”…separated from its Supreme Daddy.

  • AnonymousCoward23

    There’s also an issue with homophobia and transphobia in Jainism, no?

  • Gaby A.

    You know, I think it’s time we give a shout out to Taoism which is generally more a philosophy (but even then, classic Taoism believed in an internal “alchemy” and magic, but the idea of going with the flow suits me fine). :-)

  • Hugh Kramer

    Note to my parents (who’ll probably never see this, anyway):

    This is why I never had a desire for you to set me up with a “nice Jain girl.”

    Just as well. They’d probably set you up with a “plain Jain.” :)

  • Stephen P

    Do Jains prohibit the washing of clothes and disinfecting of toilets, or do they draw the line at non-violence towards bacteria?

    (Hmm … that was intended to be sarcastic, but given that we’re dealing with religion, I fear it has to be a serious question.)

  • Penn

    I’d be curious to see a similar sceptical viewpoint on modern non-Evangelical Quakerism. I grew up in it, which means partly that it’s hard for me to see flaws. Other than the belief in the supernatural, of course.

  • http://cafephilos.wordpress.com/ Paul Sunstone

    Jains support being free of materialism — not because it can be destructive in and of itself, but because it’ll allow you to more easily break free from the cycle of reincarnation.

    Freedom from materialism is fine until it gets translated into freedom from adequate food, shelter, clothing, medicine, and modern sewer systems. Does Jainism ever go that far? It seems to at least have the seeds of world denial in it. Is that a fair characterization?

  • littlejohn

    Demi-gods, nirvana, “next lifetime,” karma?
    Scientology? No, but it sounds a hell of lot like Hinduism.
    At any rate, I think there is a heirarchy of religions with respect to their danger. I doubt that any Jain has burned a witch or detonated a suicide vest.

  • Denis Robert

    “While the “non-violence” aspect is admirable”: That is a pretty strong unexamined assertion, isn’t it? The extreme aspect of Jainism’s “non-violence” would make Jainism an extinct religion if it ever became truly popular, to the point of threatening political pertinence. There has never been a truly non-violent society; only protected, often privileged members of an otherwise violent society. Jainism survives because it is a minority.

    A taste for violence is bad, as it leads to an unstable society. But so is an unreasoned refusal to commit violence in order to maintain that society. When push comes to shove, one must defend ourselves or die; it’s simple reality. We just always hope that push won’t ever come to shove in our lifetimes, and for most of us in the modern world, it doesn’t.

  • http://empiricalmystic.blogspot.com/ Vijen

    I generally like your stuff, and it’s great that you are coming out as an ex-jain, but you are throwing the baby out with the bath-water.

    You are right that jainism does not deserve a pass from atheists, it is not non-violent – look at the monks – but the violence is usually directed inwards. And yes, there is a lot of specious bullshit which has suckered some famous names, but nevertheless, you are missing something essential.

    What if the objectively observable aspect of the phenomenon you describe as “attaining nirvana” manifests simply as an ability to behave with sanity in a variety of situations, displaying the kind of everyday wisdom we often see in those around us, but enhanced so that sanity persists in all and any circumstances, there being literally no situations which could make the enlightened ones angry, or miserable, or inconsiderate of their fellows, or uncomfortable in any way. How would we know?

    Most people waste their lives being “religious” in ways which are patently and demonstrably absurd, and yet a very few people (far less than 1%) are trying to do something entirely different. This approach is routinely conflated with religion, by the religious, and also, unfortunately, by such rational people as yourself. Some of us are engaged in an empirical enquiry into the nature of our own psychology. You have probably met many who claim as much, but most of these will be selling some kind of woo, and such people are simply another distraction, no more deserving of our attention than the traditional god-botherers.

    Empiricism is the foundation of subjective enquiry, but reproducibility, that other sine qua non of the scientific method, seems to have limited applicability.* Observation is employed far more than experiment, as in astronomy. When it comes to communicating the results of the enquiry, the primary difficulty is that all terms are subjectively referenced, giving rise to abundant misinterpretation – fossils of such misunderstood communications make up the backbone of whatever genuine wisdom there is to be found in scriptures.

    Despite these difficulties it is nonetheless apt to call such subjective enquiry scientific, as it is a natural extension of the scientific approach into the subjective realm.

    A more usual word, though, is meditation, a term which is often used to mean a specific technique, whereas the meaning here intended is much more general, encompassing a way of living which is structured around a process of subjective enquiry. I recommend Sam Harris’ recent post, though he also refuses to bite the bullet and acknowledge the existence of humans whose experience is qualitatively distinct from yours or mine.

    Discoveries made by objective science only need to be made once for all to share the benefits, but it doesn’t work that way for subjective science – if you want the benefit you personally have to do all the work. My own attempts at meditation, pursued with more or less diligence over many years, have afforded some few insights which, even with the best will in the world, I am quite unable to transfer to anybody else.

    Notwithstanding, the process of trying to live meditatively informs and illuminates my daily experience with a significance which was lacking when I limited my enquiry to the objective realm.

    Is your daily experience entirely satisfactory to you in each and every moment? All I mean to say is that strategies exist whereby your subjective life can be gradually transformed towards wider, deeper and more general contentment.

    Indeed it seems to me that I have met at least one person whose sanity really is absolute and imperturbable, and although I have no definitive objective evidence to support this contention, my subjective observations characterize experiences which are rather reproducibly correlated with the extent of my contact with this individual. In effect, I have access to subjective evidence.

    I cannot say whether such teachers/masters/gurus are necessary in any sense, but I am greatly encouraged by having met him. I am talking about Osho, surely the most effective critic of jainism who has ever lived. I wonder why you don’t mention him – perhaps because he is inconveniently “enlightened”?

    * So far as my own personal subjective experience is concerned, though many accounts speak of ultimate enlightenment as being a singular phenomenon, the essence of which is experienced in exactly the same way by all those who attain to it.

    @Avicenna: it is rather more likely that hinduism is an offshoot of jainism.

  • TychaBrahe

    I’ll be honest with you; I don’t really care what people believe so long as those beliefs don’t impact others.

    If you want to be a Christian, but you stop with the homophobia, sexism, and anti-science-ism, have at it. If believing that there’s some benevolent (despite all the stories) entity in the sky that mated with a human to produce a child who was sacrificed so that you can go to heaven makes you happy, feel free.

    There are all kinds of people who believe all kinds of nonsense. Some people believe it matters who wins American Idol or what happens on Glee this week or who wins the Stanley Cup. Some people believe that winning an annual sports victory is so important that they are willing to torch cars over the outcome, which rarely happens after Sunday’s service down at the Lutheran church. Which irrational belief is more harmful?

  • Erp

    I’d be curious to see a similar sceptical viewpoint on modern non-Evangelical Quakerism. I grew up in it, which means partly that it’s hard for me to see flaws. Other than the belief in the supernatural, of course.

    The problem there is that there are modern non-Evangelical Quakers who are out non-theists (though not without controversy). http://www.nontheistfriends.org/

    I can see more problems in historical Quakers. The old policies of birthright Quakers and of disowning people for things like marrying outside the faith (or bankruptcy). It took a while for women to become fully equal members (in at least participating in the same yearly meeting as men) though they had from the beginning more equality than in most other religions.

  • Lee

    I think karma is a quite toxic belief because it blames victims for things like being born blind, or going through traumatic events like molestation. I hate that this idea is spreading around the US through the New Age movement.

    • AJ

      Indeed, however it gives someone a chance to offset the pain and suffering by doing good things. Isin’t it great!!? If everyone did good karma, utopia will be here on earth itself.

      Being rich or poor may be is based on karma, however being proud or miserable is based on our choice. So make the right choice.

  • Well well well

    Thank you for this entry, Richard. I think western atheists should just stop cuddling the Eastern religions – they are no more further from bullshit than Western religions are.

  • http://or-mabinogi.livejournal.com/ Evan

    My job is to design fiberglass ornamentation for buildings, like cornice, columns, domes, cupolas, etc, etc, etc. A large part of the designs I have to do are for religious institutions. I actually like working on the shikhars and ghummats for Hindu and Jain temples because their large sizes, complexity, and ornateness are an enjoyable puzzle.

    Normally I only do the drawings and be done with it, but one time I was instructed to attend an installation of a shikhar at a local Jain temple (I think it was dedicated to Shiva-Vishnu but I’ve done so many they all sort of blur together) in order to witness any issues the design my have had to make installations easier. The temple was eager to get the installation done because they were having a grand opening that weekend and so while it was still being put up it needed to be blessed by the Holy man. (Was it a blessing? What are the holy men called? Gurus?)

    It was strange watching this man drive up in a pick up truck, in full holy robes, climb into the passenger box and have the crane lift him to the top where he could lay hands on the kalasha and mumble his chants.

    My Eastern Orthodox employers, while still thinking Jains and Hindus are weird and wrong, were relieved this religious dedication was made on time. I just thought it was a bizarre thing to be concerned about. I mean, it was something I just drew up and it was made out of fiberglass. There was nothing holy about it.

  • holeydood3

    Jains believe that they can accumulate and shed karma and this impacts their future…

    Jainism is the prequel to reddit, albeit without the specific reddit hive-mind.

  • GlenG

    @Andrew – karma is not really blaming the victim. It is a philosophy that motivates people to be good to each other. The result is actually quite elegant, justice in an unjust world.

    Similarly reincarnation may not be proven but it has not been disproven either.

    As an atheist I don’t really find a problem with either one of these theories. Reincarnation and Karma may or may not exist but they do provide a world view that inspires many to better behavior without much downside.

  • keystothekid

    @GlenG I think the problem most of us have with karma is that it hasn’t been proven. That’s mostly what makes us all nonbelievers. Sure, you might argue that karma and reincarnation persuade people to be better but shouldn’t we bring up the “at what cost” argument?

    It might be naive of me but I still believe in being a good person for the sake of the common good, not so it will personally benefit me in the ‘next life.’ I realize that it takes more than that to motivate some people but I’d liken the idea of Karma to the idea surrounding marijuana. Once you cross through the gateway of accepting Karma as truth, what other woo comes next?

  • http://a-million-gods.blogspot.com/ Avicenna

    @Vijen – No, Hinduism is the original faith. It is a lot older than Jainism considering a lot of proto hindu deities are present in the Indus Valley Civilisation (such as the Rudra). Hinduism is the oldest continuous mainstream religion and has artefacts showing it’s gods that date back to roughly 3000 BC (A full 2000 years older than Jainism and Buddhism). There is no solid start date since a lot of it’s texts refer to earlier texts that are no longer around simply due to time. Most people don’t quite realise that the Indus Valley Civilisations are quite spectacular in their own (The first Planned Cities indicating the people had built cities before these, organised neighbourhoods, Flood defences, Sewage and separate toilets, Socialised food and a council rather than a king). The place was pretty nifty in all honesty.

    The history of Mahavira is also well known (founder of jainism) and he specifically mentions that Jainism is a rebellion against the excess of Hinduism. Think of it as a form of protestantism except with less warfare. Hindus were quite open in what people were allowed to believe and a lot of Jains simply became “more and more Hindu till you couldn’t tell the difference anymore”. Hinduism in it’s current form is a combination of the Indus valley beliefs (the triple gods of Brahma/Vishnu/Shiva and their goddesses of Saraswati/Lakshmi/Uma). While the aryans were nature worshippers. The “3000 gods” motif is from the aryans whose gods were neatly slotted above the Indus valley gods. In time these 6 gods came to the forefront again.

  • Claudio I

    Pre-boiled water? Killing insects is bad, but water-borne bacteria is fair game to be boiled alive? I just lost the little respect I had for that religion.

    • rakesh

      in water the bacteria continiously multiplies . when we boil we put an end to the multiplication . thus saving the future increase of killing of the microbes . 
      now scientifically also it is proved that boiling the water is very beneficial ti health .

  • http://www.tech-o-potamus.blogspot.com hipopotamo

    This is quite interesting from a philosophical point of view.

    You see, I believe reincarnation is a possibility, based on conservation of matter/energy. I also believe it would be a random process (so no better, more illuminated future lifes, you could be a hamster in your next one even if you have been a saint in this one)

    Karma, of course, would add some order to it, maybe an order that follows well established natural laws.

    So yes, I’m an skeptic, but I allow myself to ruminate about karma, reincarnation and aliens. What is the difference? Well, I don’t live my life waiting for the aliens to come, or trying to accumulate good karma in the odd possibility that I will reincarnate as the next Brad Pitt =P
    You see, ruminating about the existence of something is fine if you keep in mind the little detail of evidence, isn’t it?

    Still, I think ideas like karma can and should be separated from religion, where they cannot be used to manipulate people’s behavior.

    My two cents, anyway

    The esoteric Hippo

  • JD

    Vijen, is the religion necessary to meditate?

    It seems like you feel the need to believe in things that can’t be proven, or disproven, for that matter. Then how do you know they’re true? Someone told you these things, how did they decide they’re true and worth passing on?

  • http://a-million-gods.blogspot.com/ Avicenna

    Claudio – In their defence they didn’t know about bacteria 3000 years ago but figured out you don’t get sick if you drink boiled water… It’s pretty smart.

  • Edger Alien Poe

    Jains support being free of materialism

    In a discussion like this, you ought to be forward about which definition of “materialism” you are using.

  • Yakamoz

    Those beliefs sound like something out of Scientology. But Jains take them very seriously.

    Scientologists also take their beliefs very seriously. I know, I was raised by a couple.

    What if…attaining nirvana” manifests simply as an ability to behave with sanity in a variety of situations @vijen

    THAT sounds like something outta scientology! It’s the world’s only cure for insanity and criminality, or so it claims.

  • Charon

    The problem there is that there are modern non-Evangelical Quakers who are out non-theists

    Yup. My dad was the assistant clerk of our meeting for a while, and also an atheist… liberal Quakerism seems like just about the best religion you can have, in a large part because it’s not clear to me that it’s really a religion. More a group of people with some common goals, who believe various random things (I’ve met Quakers who are Buddhist, atheist, Christian, Spinozan…).

    I do think it’s impressive that the AFSC (American Friends Service Committee) had the balls to support civil rights cases that even the ACLU wouldn’t touch (e.g., free speech during the 1950′s Commie scare).

    That said, silent meeting is awfully boring for a kid, and I’m happy my parents let me go to the library instead :)

  • Yakamoz

    @GlenG karma is not really blaming the victim. It is a philosophy that motivates people to be good to each other. The result is actually quite elegant, justice in an unjust world.

    Bullshit. The caste system shows how the idea of karma blames the victim and is actually the opposite of ‘elegant justice in an unjust world. It’s the Hindu version of the curse of Ham.

  • Michael S

    How do Jains reconcile germ theory with not killing anything?

    (Hemant says: My understanding is you can sacrifice a few germs in order to save more in the long run.)

    • Parth

       Actually, it’s more of trying to avoid doing unnecessary harm: germs exist and we’re inevitably going to kill them. On the other hand, killing a cow is something you can avoid very easily

      Also, as for the inconsistency between milk and eggs: remember that 2000 years ago chickens roamed around pretty freely, so there was no way to tell if an egg were fertilized (unlike in modern battery farms). Milk obviously does not contain any life, so that’s why milk was OK but eggs weren’t.

      Note, I was brought up Jain and so I’m aware of the arguments Jainism uses in term of germs, milk, eggs etc. Most of them I find to have a logical reasoning (or at least historically). But I am an atheist as I don’t believe in hell, reincarnation and the other superstitions Jainism proclaims

  • MH

    No onion rings, french fries, or a cold beer to drink with them sounds like a punishment to me.

    • John2find

       what I can say is Jainism does not prohibit anyone form doing from anything, as its a violence(suppressing the freedom of expression).
      But Jainism say if you unhappy, you must not be then, because you know you are unhappy today because you want to be happy earlier.

      I myself drink bear and eat onion , but I know I have to  pay it some time.

      Juts to add: And Onion is prohibited as it is a root killing a plant by eating its root. You can eat grains.

      No one is prohibited from doing but are made ware of doing violence means getting violence in return in some or the other form.

  • Hermes

    > * Jainism encourages an 8-day-long (or worse), unhealthy fasting during the holy time of the year. During the fast, you may only consume water that’s been pre-boiled.

    > * The Jain rules regarding a vegetarian diet seem like they’re made up on the spot. Eggs are bad, but milk is ok. Potatoes and other food from the ground are bad, but there are exceptions depending on the day. Alcohol is forbidden, but young Jains go to bars all the time. The rules make hypocrisy rampant… but almost unavoidable.

    Reminds me of the Polynesian taboo cultures. The type of food, the day or time, and who is eating what food are a really big deal.

    FWIW: Till the Christian missionaries came, they did not have many hangups over sex, though. It was mainly focused on food.

  • http://eternalbookshelf.wordpress.com Sharmin

    Thanks for writing this, Hemant. I don’t know much about Jainism, but I’m very curious to find out more.

    Also, I love this line:

    This is why I never had a desire for you to set me up with a “nice Jain girl.”

    • rakesh

      Mr.Hemant knows that all jain girls are nice. That is because the religion itself is so nice.

  • Nemo

    I mean, it was something I just drew up and it was made out of fiberglass. There was nothing holy about it.

    Duh. That’s why he had to bless it — so there would be something holy about it. Don’t you see, the magical incantation is the most important part of the whole construction process.

  • http://empiricalmystic.blogspot.com/ Vijen

    @Avicenna:

    The evidence for religious continuity between modern hinduism and the Indus valley is thin – the “horned god” images do resemble siva, but perhaps siva was a jain god at the time. Unless the Indus valley script is deciphered it is impossible to know. You seem unaware that buddhism was dominant in India, indeed across the whole of Asia, for more than a millenium, and that hinduism as currently practiced was largely invented by Adi Shankara (probably in the 8th century).

    Mahavir was the 24th tirthankara, not the founder of jainism, and although the earlier ones are described in mythological terms, Parshva, the 23rd, is a historical figure from 3 centuries earlier, and seems to have been known throughout India (he also has a Tamil name), so it is at least plausible that the line is very ancient.

    My point, really, was that attaching modern labels to very early belief systems is moot – except for the political agenda of the BJP.

    @JD

    I don’t have a religion, and my beliefs are contingently frangible. Enlightened beings do exist, I speak from my own experience – more here.

    @Yakamoz

    There is now abundant evidence that meditative practice correlates with sanity. My characterization of enlightenment was dramatically understated. Definitely no alien lizards involved.

  • Z

    I don’t get it. I am an atheist, but i do not understand why so many atheists are against religion. There is nothing wrong with religion so long as it is a free choice and so long as it does not affect people who have not made the same choice. The fact that the Jainist chants does not in anyway diminish the research they have done, nor does the research affect their belief. So what if they are wrong, if they are able to find comfort in their lives then more power to them. The truth kinda sucks when you think about it.

  • http://www.facebook.com/B18Ch1ck Ami Momaiya

    I enjoyed this post! I was raised in a Jain family, too. I still remember the day when I was at the temple and somebody was preaching to the youth about how “Jains support being free of materialism.” I then asked why the temple parking lot looked like a Lexus dealership… It’s hard to be a child raised in a Jain family, as well as an inquisitive mind. You’re likely to call people out at, and get kicked out of, the temple.

    • Parth

       Lol, agreed. I remember my local Jain community built a massive temple and I always thought it was ironic how they were willing to spend so much on building a nice temple when that money could be used to do something better

      also, our parking lot looked like a BMW dealership, and most of the Jain families have huge mansions…I never liked their hypocrisy

      • John2find

        so probably you have met only jains by birth and not by practice. You cannot blaim on tenets of Jainism, you can blaim on people who are practicing it wrongly.

      • Ami Momaiya

        Parth,

        Think about the interior package in these brand new BMWs. They’re going to drive a car with a leather interior to the temple to go preach nonviolence to animals. That makes a lot of sense…

        Ami

    • John2find

       Hi Ami,

      I am replying to you as you have pointed wrong things at Jainism.
      Your issue is with people (who are born in jain family) and those issue you are claiming on Jainism.

      People make Temples , but Jainsim do not promotes temple. People are following wong thing. That is not Jainism.

      and undergoing this misconception you have bluntly said Jaisnism is wrong, when indeed the followers are not able to grasp it.

      The logic you have give that one most not have materialistic possession is true and that what Jainism teaches which they are not following.

      • manoj kumar

        Dear now you have come to the point that you people are jealous of Jainism. You please try to grasp it and tell to the others that you are the real follower of jainism.

    • Shashank

      Hi Ami
                       “Jains support being free of materialism” doesn’t mean you shouldn’t  work and make money.  Being  “free of materialism” means you shouldn’t do anything which is unethical,  wrong, promote violence for sake of money…Also one has to understand that money is not the ultimate goal and priority. One should  do good work and work toward becoming better man/woman.

      “Jain” is traditionally rich community. It was common practice in the past ( and it exists presently in smaller scale) that a Rich Jain businessman just relinquish their all wealth and becomes saints and lead their life without any luxuries. 
      Although younger generation (including you) are the main reason of degradation of Jain values.

      • Ami Momaiya

        Shashank,

        Brand new luxury cars have leather interiors. Where does buying leather fall under Jainism?

        Thanks,
        Ami

  • Abhishekjain19

    Important Message for Mr. Hemant Mehta

    I think Mr. Hemant Mehta…..you are still living in a superflous world
    with superficial knowledge…………….and thats why you would never
    be able to understand….what these timeless principles of jainism and
    hinduism stands for….!!! As it is eternally mentioned in Bhagwad Gita
    by Krishna……An ignorant man who is immersed in this material world
    full of desires would never be able to understand the ultimate
    truth…the reason for his inability to understand the truth lies in his
    incapability to go beyond his senses and Mind…….Mr. Hemant
    Mehta…..please leave your ignorance aside and start imbibing timeless
    lessons from Jainism & Bhagwad Gita…!!

    • Atheist and cultural hindu

      > As it is eternally mentioned in bhagwad gita…
      You, Sir, are no different from what the evangelical christians claim about the bible.

  • fracklecrackle

    Just ran across this article after looking into Jainism for possibly 5 mins. Two things immediately jumped out at me , and you didn’t touch on either of them.  Will copy and paste from where I wrote it in my Delicious Bookmark description .. 

    They’re ‘non violent’ to an extreme. An animal or human being can be suffering dreadfully and they think it’s right to just watch them suffer. That’s cruelty. 
    It’s ‘harm by omission’ – like ‘lying by omission’. 

    Their ‘non attachment’ rule immediately brought to mind people who remain distant, neutral, never forming bonds or love. Because how can one have either without some form of attachment? A devout Jain must be equivalent to an emotionally void robot. Going as far as to wear cloth over their mouths so to not accidentally swallow a gnat and at the same time watching on as something suffers in agony.  

    They are neither cold nor hot – but luke warm.  Passion-less. 

    • John2find

      Hi my explanations to you , just bcz you pointed fingers.

      Getting harsh to oneself as it appear bad for others. So do you open you pants just because a gay want to see you naked.

      No. You do what you think is best for you.(if you are gay you will open if you are not you will not) its not about what other want for you its about what we want for ourselves.
      I mean no harshness. But that the best example I got it when I read your argument.

      Now comes to why one its all so strictness in Jainism:

      I must never complain anyone why the things is so and not the way I like.
      You get hungry and you have to earn some money for this. Isn’t it a pain. that each day you have to go and do , if you don’t do you have to suffer. See even it has  cause and its effect.

      if I have to be absolute happy, I must be non-attached. If I have no attachments with myself, I feel no bad why I am hungry. If I have no attachments with my relatives (as that is a mattre of luck I have not requested someone to give me those relatives it all happened without my choice) I have no worry what is going on with them.
      They worry about me and they are in pain. had they have no attachment with me they would have no pain.

      they are asking me to join their temporary relief form pain [ you may eat some sandwich to satisfy your hunger and be happy for 15 minutes and then again have to worry for earning other] where as I am calling them to a permanent relief from pain bby having non attachment.

      Non attachment is far different from suicide. I can discuss if you need.
      BUt I guess i have given your answer for Why I Jainism is so strict.

  • Jai

    What Jains themselves believe is not bull****. It’s about how you perceive it! I’ve grown up with Jainism being my faith and religion. I may be very young, and as a young Jain I could well have been misguided by the philosophy of the religion. But even though, as scientists we can’t go against what others such as Darwin or Galileo say, because who would believe us? We are part of a small sect in the world’s population.
    You are right in saying that there aren’t many differences between Hindu’s and Jain’s, the principal’s are the same and we share some of the demi gods. But we are more philosophical, we have a deeper meaning to our words. No – one can argue to the fact that Jainism is more about spiritual guidance for a better life. Hindus are more concerned with the religious side of things of offerings to their deities. Jain’s are formidably the most diverse of religions.
    I teach Jainism to young children, you cannot make assumptions about a religion that you know so little about. There may be riffs between the different casts in Jainism, but what is important is that we learn and preach the same things. 
    You say that we have no right t be known as Atheist, but that is up to the individual mind. I follow the law of Jainism and incorporate them with my life, but I still believe in no true form of God. The Thirthankars that I follow are nothing short of messengers or profits, I pray to them and learn from their teachings solely for the purpose of enlightenment. It is true that monks and nuns are not treated in the same way and some are bound to get hurt. It is the old tradition, but as youth it can be changed significantly.
    In terms of Paryushana, it is up to the individual. You have no right to talk in a way that a person ‘has’ to fast. I don’t always fast, but I do it with the purpose of becoming more closer to achieving great things in life which is something I am unfortunately unable to put into words as it in my own interpretation.
    Not every Jain is strict. It is up to the individual. I have been brought up into a religious family, however I have family members that drink alcohol.
    So all I have to say is, I completely disagree with what you say, but I say it as an individual, not for all Jains to be considered in what I have written.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000523474067 Joey Ray

      Your less fanboyish than most religious fan boys, I like you.

    • Vir

      Arey you Jain believers suffer from cognitive dissonance and cannot smell your own shit. You maybe entitled to make up your own truth but you cannot make up facts. Religion is bullshit. All of them

      • Nitesh

        It is beyond your cognizance to understand this mate !

  • Akshay

    @77576b2e5fa62e0a4002a4c30b20c87f:disqus  Before boiling the water, the water is cleaned with a cloth and those micro organism included in that water are flooded/moved by water… Clove is kept in water that stops more reproduction of such micro organisms and then the water is boiled and then again filtered and is consumable for 24 hours after which the micro organism start reproducing in it…. Jainism believe to minimize the loss to any living being hence, a potato that contains infinite no. of micro-organism is not allowed. Well, no one knows the truth and this Mr. Mehta being a jain when he cannot even type Jainism as Jainism, he can’t even think what it preaches… and Why…???

    Do you know why we don’t believe in gods/creators… because jainism says that each living being has a power to become god and hence we worship human beings who attained salvation by removing all 8 karmas and hence we believe in truth, non-violence, celibacy(it means to have relation with only one or none, if you have relation with any one that he/she must be your husband/wife), non-stealing, no extra attachment(It means what you have is sufficient, if you want more then hold that much which is needed and leave rest useless like If i have food to eat, then why to make my house a warehouse/godown. I have 100 clothes and I don’t need more then leave the attachment of that more, but it does not mean that you must misinterpret it). Jainism teaches to leave ego, cruelty, charlatanism, greed. It teaches to think that each living organism is like you is equal to you whether he/she is black or white, tall or short, intelligent or daft. Because each one has a right to live so, let each one live with happiness, perfection, self-esteem, respect, pleasure, power, wisdom…..

    But I think People like Mr. Mehta and those who couldn’t accept good for all … cannot understand the real truth…. if you wanna know more email me m.akshaypatni@gmail.com

  • Guest

    Please think using your brains, not your egos.

  • http://108.80.56.115/theEnd/ fuzzywzhe

    I’m an atheist, but I don’t see anything much wrong with the beliefs you’ve pointed out in Jainism.

    I was raised Catholic.  Catholics had an Inquisition that wiped out a fair number of religions, Christians enslaved blacks, the Christians of England had an opium war against China because they wanted to pay for goods and services from China in opium rather than gold and silver, if you consider the US a Christian nation it’s been continually at war with Islam since at least 1953 when it overthrew the Iranian Democracy to steal oil…

    Jainism might have some crazy ideas and might encourage people to do the right thing for the wrong reasons – but at least it encourages people to do the right thing or seems to.

    Abrahamic religions seem to be inherently violent to me.  Look at Israel and it’s intense conflict wit the indigenous people of that area.  Islamic societies are practically brual in many areas.  Christian societies can be as primitive and as barbaric as any Islamic society.  Why complain about Jainism?  I think you ought to pay attention to results.

    I don’t know of any conflicts the Jains have been in, any war, any cultural strife, etc.  Sure they may have what your typical person considers to be crazy ideas, but those ideas don’t seem to generate violence.

    • jazzzzzz

      you basically said what i was going to say. thank you for representing mu ideas :-D

    • Pratpandey13

      You said it right, in west there is a missconception that religion is anti.humanism or theistic. Nothing applies to dharmic religion! They coexisted in peace where persicution was a fantasy read the books each will redicule other claiming this person favoured this perticular religion etc etc but war or fight was never there! Riot in india was hindu.muslim not hindu buddhist or hindu jain, infact islam to in indian version of sufi was much tolerant! Hinduism is only theistic religin yet it is known for its tolerance. Buddha rediculed veda still he preached till he died and after his death his body was cared by a hindu brahmin! Ashoka rock edicts protected jain, and sunga kings built buddhist stupas, and it is said that sunga were treating buddhism worst and ashoka persecuted jain! Its all fantasy as word persecution was unkown , and dharmakriti, dignan all great buddhist monks were aided and supported by hindu kings! But today Hindutva is there, it not hindu only indian jain and buddhist too are included in it ask any jain here that jain are not there in hindutva policy! And its a policy of lenin, its too is atheistic but not tolerant! Mahavira was most hostile to veda among 24, yet he was not banned, there was tension but no one could lift hand, they do not know to do that! You probabily know that all his 50000 year old history india never invaded. It has most polytheistic religion hinduism! Well most orthodox school of hinduism is most atheistic! So religion is bad, religion kills people is a turn off to me! I’m atheist but not anti-religion, infacyt I’m not humanist but on the contrary a miss-anthrope! I’m more into philosophy of atheism which is not esclusive to jain, baudh or vedic avedic brahmin!

  • Jain Follower!

    Hello, I am a born jain following many of the code of conducts tied in with Jainsim. You wrote a great article and I am very glad that your standing up for you beliefs. I being a Jain cannot tell you your beliefs are wrong of course because the sanskrit word Ahimsa (Non-Violence) keeps me from doing so, but let me explain many occidental religions that share the same beliefs of Jainism. The first argument you propose is the cycle of reincarnation being fiction and I myself cannot  confirm its truthfulness because all of the Homo-sapiens don’t know the existences of a supernatural belief for sure. If you think reincarnation is an extreme belief Christians believe a true follower of Jesus can be forgiven for a sin such as death. That sounds like a real fair god to me and this is just giving a ticket for his followers to commit grave sins. Now the great fair religion of jainism explains that if you hurt someone karma will shove a boot up your ass no matter what god you believe in. A better way to look at it is Karma is preventing people from commiting such deeds and states that even if your are a Jain your will be punished for your deeds. Karma keeps people from doing bad deeds and giving up your material possession blows greed out the water and the battle for resources out. Many have died in the name of Christianity because of they believe they will be awarded. Jainism says you can not force you belief s on other and it is considered a bad deed. You talk about young Jains drinking, don’t judge a religion by its followers. I am, so glad Jainism doesn’t give me permission to kill in order to convert like the millions of Native American and everywhere Christians have stepped foot. I am so glad my religion doesn’t promote drinking in my churches and doesn’t say god will forgive me for everything bad I did.

    • rakesh

       I am so glad my religion doesn’t promote drinking in my churches and doesn’t say god will forgive me for everything bad I did.
      SUPERB .AWESOME . JAI JINENDRA MAY WE FOLLOW THE PATH SHOWN BY THE GREAT JINA

  • Sam

    I grew up as a Jain. I had many questions with regards to the everyday rules and regulations of the religion. Two points:

    1. Read the theory behind the religion.
    2. Don’t make the mistake of interpreting Jainism through Jains.

    Jainism is a very very logical religion. It is probably one of the most complete philosophies that has ever existed. IMO it is less of a religion and more of a spirituality. Irrespective of what Jains might tell you, the religion never asks you to BELIEVE or have FAITH. It has reasons for everything. It has its own metaphysics         (something I tried to understand but realized that I am not prepared for such high level of thought).

    My two cents on the religion:

    The base of the religion is MEDITATION, the reason why the religion encourages limited food intake (eat to live, dont live to eat; Jainism never encourages illogical starvation, although starvation has crept into contemporary Jain ideals), balance of mind, non-violence etc. is to enable your body to MEDITATE at the highest state in any given condition (health, sickness, hunger, temperature, pain).

    Try to meditate fora  meager 15 seconds. You will be bombarded by thoughts like: I’m hungry, what will I eat tonite?…I feel itchy……Its cold in here….I hate Sid, he’s an ass……blah blah blah. Jainism trains your body to control your thoughts and emotions, and helps you meditate.

    Just remember, the base of the religion is MEDITATION. Try to understand how Jain practices help achieve a deep state of meditation and a lot of your questions will be answered.

    • Vir

      What the fuck are doing here typing? you should be meditating? Bollocks to your religion. Its still bullshit.

    • Neerav Kothari

      in theory, all religions are good. jains are the most passive aggressive and stubborn and narrow minded people on earth.

      • john2find

        “KOthari ” that sounds jain Surname and your aggressiveness and stubborn attitude you blame on Jainism, which indeed is resultant of your Narrow mindedness.

        1. Anyway, not all religion are same.
        2. DO you credit , Jain narrow mindedness as a resultant of their region’s tenets ?

        Some people you met were stubborn or Passive aggressive or stubborn or narrow minded , not because they are jains.
        They are such bad people because they don’t follow jainism, which teaches respect and love for all kind of life.

      • amit

        i am jain, and i am none of above

  • Guest

    I failed to find the “friendly” component of this article. I’m no Jain, but I felt insulted by your essay. I think you might take a page from the Jains and learn to accept differences instead of attacking and mocking them. There are many things that you mentioned that suggest to me that, despite your upbringing, you have only a superficial understanding of Jainism.

    As an athiest, you are on pretty weak ground yourself. Agnostics I can apprecaite as a rational response to elements of religions or philosophies that cannot by definition be proven. In my experience, athiests fall into the trap of asserting what cannot be known, just as many of the religious believers that they criticize. To say there is no god, etc., is also unprovable. What can logically be stated with certainty is that some things are unknowable at least to the cognative mind.

    So often atheists let the cat out of the bag by referencing the contradictory behaviors of minority adherants, venting personal objections to their specific experience and then applying it generally to a religion or all religious, or focusing on the controversies of the few, rather than the genuine good done by the many. This kind of reaction in any form is a simple psychological mechanism designed to boost pride and self image at the expense of putting down others.

    Further, I’ll suggest to you that experiential religions, such as Jainism, Buddhism, Daoism, and others, require time, devotion, and work, but can result in that person’s sense of an improved or perfected life. Many do believe to attain high levels of spiritual awareness and perhaps even release from the bonds of mundane life. Just because you personally haven’t done this work and experienced that kind of growth doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

    Were I to make a suggestion, I’d say that you might want to discuss this article with your parents. I’d be surprised if they wouldn’t hear you out and try to find a common ground with you. The Jains are, after all, well known for doing just that.

    I hope you find some peace.

    • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/ Hemant Mehta

      Feel free to provide evidence for karma, heaven, hell, reincarnation, etc.
      I’ll wait here while you do that.

      • Guest

        Again, your antagonism makes me sad. I could suggest that you prove that they don’t exist. Or prove that those that do have experiences that support this information (mystics, gurus, experiential religious adherants) are not genuine in their experience.

        But instead I will just wish you find peace and a respectful outlook towards your fellow man.

        • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/ Hemant Mehta

          In other words, let’s just believe what “mystic” people with no credible evidence have said. No thanks. Plenty of harm has occurred using that line of thought. I’ve grown out of that. Hope you do one day, too.

          • Guest

            I never said that anyone should believe the words of another and make them their own without exploration–both intellectual and experiential. I only suggested that I wouldn’t doubt their experiences out of hand.

            Really, my perspective is to believe in my own experience. If I am curious, I explore. I don’t take anyone’s word for it. I live an ever improving life based on my religious beliefs, as well as many other activities and endeavors.

            As for harm done, I don’t argue against anything that gives a large number of people purpose, contentment, and joy. I think that can be harmful. I just respect their right to believe and move on if I don’t agree–and lement the harm people may do for whatever reason. I respect your right to have your beliefs and I appreciate the opportunity to participate in this discussion.

            Forgive me if I am reading too much into the tone of your responses, but it seems that I’ve upset you. I’m sorry if this is so. I hope you will forgive me this.

            And as always, I genuinely wish you peace.

            • rakesh

              why is someone born blind ,some1 rich some1 poor ? some understand easily ,some cannot . some are talented ,some are smart ,some with diseases ,some healthy? can u explain ? can u see sound ,emotion,love . where is love . where is it located scientifically . prove me .some things have to be felt . jainism is something which is so sacred and deep that very highly talented people also cannot understand it . but for u i can say there is nothing that it says is bad for the world

              • Parth

                 why is someone born blind? probably because of a defect that occured when the baby was still developing

                why are some people born rich? Hmm, because their dad impregnated their mom and the parents happened to be rich

                why do some understand more easily than other? a combination of genetics and environment

                why are some talented and some smart? once again, a combination of genetics and environment

                Can we see sound? By definition, sound is something you can hear (propagation in air -> air particles that vibrate in resonance) and not something you can see (light propagation). Your question is quite silly, eyes see electromagnetic waves, sound is not electromagnetic so how could eyes see sound then?

                Emotion and love can actually be explained scientifically, through pheromones, etc. We might not have a perfect understanding yet, but neuroscience is getting really close. Check out wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotion

                • John2find

                  Hi Parth,

                  I will ask you only two questions again as were asked by Rakesh.

                  Why is some one born blind ?

                  your answer due to birth defect, yes that true but the question is not answered yet. The question is whay only out of millions life on this earth why hat particular person was “destined” to be blind.
                  Why the probability of genetic defects only happened for the person and not to you.

                  Your answer is the explanation why some is blind by birth, but why only he was blind is unanswered ?

                  Why all the factors (genetics and phyiscal) happened so accurately for that particular person only ?

                  (I know your answer will be chance, but that how that chance happened only with that person and not with you)

                  2. your explantion for “Emotions and love ” agreed that I laugh which means some chemical have been introduced in my brain that made me react to laugh.

                  But I will like to emphasize that , its because I want to laugh first therefore the chemical reaction taking  place and not becasue chemical reaction first took place therefore I am laughing.
                  Chemical reaction took place to produce signals to my body to reflect I am happy.

                  But first thing was I was happy than chemical reaction took place to appear I am happy.

                • Ashwinbahulkar

                   agree with you, the “chance” thing is what we call karma. Events beyond our control.

                • prince

                  its like a balance sheet where you have your assets and liabilities carried forward for next life…. if you have a lot of liabilities because of your previous births deeds then you need to make arrangements for regularizing the same may be along with the interest and penalties… as its simple law what you give is reverted back in multiples… i.e. give good receive best …. give bad and receive worst… take an example i am planting a tree (presume i planted mango seed) i will get multiple mangoes not apples.or other food.. so what i sow will reap me…..

                  And as john said hypothesis this hypothesis is logical and beneficial to the mankind as a whole as it have checks on your acts and controls your activity for the betterment of the society

                • Ashwinbahulkar

                  Well but how do you explain the fact that that particular gene defect happened to that person,and not to someone else? Or that some individual had was raised in a god environment,while  someone else did not have the privileges of a “good” family. That’s where karma comes into the picture, for things you dont have control over.

                • Guest

                  Parth, rakesh asked in his posts ‘why’ those mentioned things happened  not ‘how’. When asked, how a child is born with birth defects you can accurately refer to genetic, epigenetic, and environmental aspects, as you’ve done so. But as far as I’m concerned you need to understand the difference between ‘why’ and ‘how’ before you tackle questions which require a much higher intellect.

                • MSamyak

                  Hi Parth,
                  why is someone born blind?
                  The answer is given below and never ever used words “May be” or “Probably”. You should give full proof either by Scientifically or by given in any Jain ethics or shastras.
                  For your kind information I want to tell you that when jeev/Atma comes in womb then it made it all 6 praptiyan in Antarmuhurat(Some less than 48 minutes)(Shareer, breath, Aahar, Indriyan, Mann). All the praptiyan should be made otherwise child formation process stops. If all the praptiyanprocess is fulfilled and the child is born blind then it means that as a child has the power to see as he is having chakshu indri but because of his previous Karm bandh he is not able to see.

              • Sam Shah

                It’s random and randomness is backed by mathematics. What’s your point?

                • john2find

                  Nothing happens by chance as per physics (=Application of Mathematics to real world scenario.Math can assume , but that does not mean i has a value. Moreover Maths do not have absolute random number generator functions).
                  Chance or random events only happens in
                  theist religion for example a god is born by chance & no further
                  reason to explain it further.
                  A apple false as it has physics behind, a sky is raining as it as physics behind.
                  Tell me one thing in universe (accept god) that can happen by chance and not by any reason behind it ?
                  A kid is born as girl or boy based on chromosome number agreed, but that’s an answer to how a kid is born boy or a girl .

                  But we need to find the answer for why ? why that kid was destined
                  that all events (events like him mother drank successive milk(for eg) which promoted and
                  increased y chromosome count) aligned so perfectly for an individual and
                  not for me or you ? “why destined ?”

                  Tell me one example that can happen just by chance and not without a reason for destined to be so ?

                  So the question is why for only this person (who is born blind), not you and me , all the condition aligned that he was born blind.
                  Everything should have a reason as per physics, please give me answer for why their was alignments and not how he/she is born blind.

                • john2find

                  Nothing happens by chance as per physics (=Application of Mathematics to real world scenario.Math can assume , but that does not mean i has a value. Moreover Maths do not have absolute random number generator functions).
                  Chance or random events only happens in
                  theist religion for example a god is born by chance & no further
                  reason to explain it further.
                  A apple false as it has physics behind, a sky is raining as it as physics behind.
                  Tell me one thing in universe (accept god) that can happen by chance and not by any reason behind it ?
                  A kid is born as girl or boy based on chromosome number agreed, but that’s an answer to how a kid is born boy or a girl .

                  But we need to find the answer for why ? why that kid was destined
                  that all events (events like him mother drank successive milk(for eg) which promoted and
                  increased y chromosome count) aligned so perfectly for an individual and
                  not for me or you ? “why destined ?”

                  Tell me one example that can happen just by chance and not without a reason for destined to be so ?

                  So the question is why for only this person (who is born blind), not you and me , all the condition aligned that he was born blind.
                  Everything should have a reason as per physics, please give me answer for why their was alignments and not how he/she is born blind.

                • john2find

                  in my last comment I said:

                  Nothing happens by chance as per physics (=Application of Mathematics to real world scenario.Math can assume “i square = -1″ , but that does not mean i has a value. Moreover Maths do not have absolute random number generator functions).

                  i square (in super scripted way , i^2) is not posting.

          • rakesh

            see hemant . you are asking questions on jainism which are 10th std . but u r not even educated on jainism at toddler level . Anyway i must not use such words because jainism is so so….pure . u can never understand what the people are trying to explain u here  ,because u have made up u r mind to argue and find fault . 

            • Parth

              Sigh, I think you completely misunderstood Hemant. A lot of things you’ve said pertaining to the world (for example The car which u love the most and are dying for will after a few years
              become an outdated model which u would not even like to drive) are quite true. And Jainism does have admirable principles relating to non-violence, non-materialism etc., which Hemant said as well.

              But that’s not what he’s arguing about. He’s arguing about hells, karma, reincarnation etc: things which have no scientific backing.

              As for being educated in Jainism: I’ve gone to pathshala as a child since I was six years old. I know my Jainism. I’ve done athai.

              But you know, I was a pretty devout Jain, but I started realizing that despite all the amazing principles of non-violence etc, the superstitious components of Jainism have no merit.

              We can explain what love is, can you explain where karma comes from? Where is the soul? We’ve never found any evidence that a soul exists.

              Do we have proof karma doesn’t exist or reincarnations don’t happen? No, we don’t. But we also don’t have proof pink unicorns exist. Does that mean it’s OK for a person to believe in a pink unicorn? In day to day life, when someone doesn’t have proof of something we don’t believe them (for example my parents might want to see proof of where I spend my money because otherwise they won’t believe me). So then why should we believe in karma and not Jesus, why in Allah and not in reincarnation? Rather we should be rational and apply our day-to-day logic to religion and reject all claims that have no proof.

              People might argue, what’s the harm in Jainism. After all, Jains aren’t doing any harm, right? I would argue that’s not true. Jainism, like any other religion, forces people to stop thinking critically. Why do so many Jains amass such fortunes, drive such nice cars and own large houses while we supposedly claim to be non-materialistic. Why do so many Jains wear leather? Why do so many Jains have corrupt business practices (don’t believe me? Check out the diamond market in Mumbai when the Indian Tax Department is doing random raids. The entire place is shut down because everyone is avoiding taxes). Why do Jains drink milk when cows (especially in the US) are treated so cruelly?

              I can give so many more examples of where Jains have failed to live up to the tenets of Jainism.

              So
              1. You don’t have proof of karma, reincarnation, moksha, etc.
              2. In practice, Jains don’t even follow the tenets

              The only thing you have going for you is that you got the values of non-violence and non-materialism right. Too bad everything didn’t work out.

              • John2find

                Rajesh you have misunderstood people with the religion.

                Jainsims prohibit wearing leathor, but the person has weared. its his personal mistake and not mistake with the jainism.

                he has not followed what jainism says, you cannot blame Jainism for this.

                Unlike abrahmic religion which ask for blood , jainism do not ask for blood.

              • Janki

                You said Jains are doing a lot of harm by driving in big cars wearing leather tax evasion etc etc. But Jainism does not allow all these things. So basically Jain and non-Jains alike are doing a lot of harm by not following Jainism. If they were in fact following Jainism they wouldnt be doing all these things. So I guess your problem should be with people and not religion. Just like when someone who lies teaches his child not to lie, that does not make the teaching false. just because the parent lies does not mean it is ok to like. The fact still remains you should not like. If the person is not following it, the person is wrong, not the teaching.

                • Sam Shah

                  You might want to re-read his comment. You are missing the entire point.

              • Sam Shah

                Great response!

            • Sam Shah

              As you have made up your mind on the position against it.

          • rakesh

            anyway i must share some knowledge with u at toddler level .
            this world is full of misery .birth is attended by death , youth by decay, fortune by misfortune .thus everything in this world is momentary . Dont ever assume that what will happen to the world if you are not here . the glamour and glitz of the world shall remain the same .There will be thousand of parties ,there will be unlimited entertainment in the world forever .BUT oneday the world will search u in these parties but u will not be there . (everyone has to die one day ).  most powerful armies , the modern science with the latest technology ,the powerful leaders of the world cannot overpower death , oldage,sickness . When u r in pain ,even though u r friends and family might boost you but u will only have to suffer the pain yourself . this body is not u r companion forever . dont mistake this  birth as u r first birth . you have been born innumerable times. NOW U WILL BE jumpimg  FROM U R SEAT  TO ARGUE WITH ME BUT WAIT JUST READON .  
            jainism is all about soul upliftment. How to free the soul from all the bondages ? the human body is also a bondage to soul. Non attachment / non possessiveness /No desire  are all leading the soul to be free from the material world . The car which u love the most and are dying for will after a few years become an outdated model which u would not even like to drive . these are all passing phases . The soul is eternal . it is yours. if you do good u will enjoy the good deeds . But jainism is all about freeing oneself from these good and bad . its aim is moksha where is there is nobirth ,death ,hunger ,oldage , sickness  and desire . there is infinite peace ,bliss .According to jainism if you have good karmas then u will be in joy (but that is also obstructing you from going to moksha which is  the ultimate aim). Any form of violence (minutest) also ostructs u r journey to moksha . So jainism is so strict . but if your aim is not moksha then u are free to follow at the best possible level that u can , But for moksha there is no compromise . that is why the cloth on nose , the boiling of water which sounds silly to the modern world is practically followed by jains . and for the lay jain practically moksha is not the aim, lay jain cannot follow such a strict conduct followed by monks. a layjain also tries to improve his level to that of a monk . Posshro ,updhyam ,oly are all trying to live like a monk giving up on the material world by the lay jain .Jainism is very practical, most jains dont understand the religion themselves . to end i will say jainism tells u not to waste any resource,use as miminum as u need . dont kill any living beings  . let and let live . do not cheat ,steal ,indulge in sexual activities ( for the layman restricted to wife), so all these things are taught . meditation is very very important because the power and speed of mind is very fast . you can develop negative karmas in huge qty by thinking negative and mediatation is all abt controlling the mind .see all these will lead you towards moksha . but for the world will sound silly and for you the word moksha will sound funny as to which ticket on an airline will reach there hahah
            sarv mangalaye mangalyam sarv kalyanan karanam pradhanam sarv dharmanam jainam jayanti shasham 
            truth will conquer 

            • John2find

              I liked you lines:

              “So jainism is so strict . but if your aim is not moksha then u are free
              to follow at the best possible level that u can , But for moksha there
              is no compromise”

            • Sam Shah

              you’ve done nothing more than regurgitate things you’ve a) been told by your mother and b) read in a book. None of this has any testable evidence or any real world, applicable, body.

      • John2find

        Hemant, can you scientifically give me a proof of what life is?
        If life is just a chemical or electric pulses, then probably you are right.

        but what do you say life is ??

      • shashank

         Hi Hemant,
                                     I want to ask you counter question……Can you provide concrete  evidence for karma, heaven, hell, reincarnation, etc.doesn’t exist?????. It is not that if you haven’t seen or experienced a thing in your life time doesn’t exist.

      • Dreamfusion008

        I am appaled at your knowledge..Please recollect that all religions..including Christians, Muslims, Judaism, Hinduism..there is no proven facts of any of their past.. Why not write a book on them with the same title..Let’s see if you last to see your present or future. So you being a Jain should fall to this level to crticize your own religion shocked..

        • Sam Shah

          uhm there are plenty of books written. He mentioned two of the authors in the blog already. Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins.

      • RJ

        In this pancham kaal there are no Kevalgyani and there will be no Kevalgyaani to give you the evidence..My Friend Hemant if you have even a little bit doubts on Sacche Dev, Shastra , guru. Then it means that you dont have faith in tatwas. Dear Friend you and me are not able to see our soul ..lol.. How can you see Karmas. Do you know the meaning/Definition of karma? KARMA:- Jeev ke Moh, Raag , Dwesh k nimit se swayam pranamit hui Karman Vargnayon ko Karma kehte hai.. I will suggest you my friend Just read once Gommatsaar karmkaand and try to understand it. It is the most difficult shastra to understand. If once you read it you will get answer to all your ques.. You want evidence for mentioned above. You Can ask evidence for Mahavira , or 24 thirthankaras existence.See in jainism first read ethics , try to understand then think..

      • Jay

        do you know the name of your great great grand father? have you seen him? no right… but you still believe that they must have been there else your existence could be questioned.. Further, you (in fact none of us in this world) are that much knowledgeable that we can answer such questions.. so in that case, if you don’t have knowledge, you believe in those who do and those are the preachings of great Tirthankars which you should read very carefully..

      • Salil

        Hemant,

        I was pleased to see the video of you at the mega church. Your conducted your self very well. I would have been very nervous. I just wanted to share something about Jainism and say that the heterodox system arose in India around 700-600 BCE (that is what I am told, I may be completely wrong). For its time, it was clearly a move in the correct direction away from the orthodox system. The next step towards shedding more nonsense was Buddhism. Finally, when it comes to supernatural stuff, the Lokayata Philosophy shed the last bit of nonsense off completely. Unfortunately, due to lack of critical thinking among the masses, Lokayata, like the modern New Atheism, has got a bad name. In addition, the rest of the Dharmic religions have used it as a straw man for various pseudo-logical arguments.

        I would love for you to post on Lokhyat Philosophy.

        Regards,

        Salil C. Tiwari, MD

        PS: Have you read some of the books by Ramendra Nath?

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramendra_Nath

        • “Why I am Not a Hindu” (Patna: Bihar Rationalist Society, First edition 1993, Second edition 1995).

        • The Ethical Philosophy of Bertrand Russell (New York: Vantage Press, 1993).

        • Is God Dead?, (Patna: Buddhiwadi Foundation, 1998).

        • M. N. Roy’s New Humanism and Materialism (Patna: Buddhiwadi Foundation, 2001).

        • The Myth of Unity of all Religions (Patna: Buddhiwadi Foundation, 2003)

        • Rationalism, Humanism and Atheism in Twentieth Century Indian Thought (published as a free e-book on the website of the Buddhiwadi Foundation, 2007).

        • Some Reflections on Ethics (Published as a free e-book on the website of the Buddhiwadi Foundation, 2008.)

    • John2find

      Thanks Even I want to say the author same.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Don-Roche/553190629 Don Roche

    Odd that you dont understand the jainism diet.

  • Writer is a dubmass

    Dude You’re A fucking dumbass. That’s all I have to say. Do your Jain parents know you’re typing this up in your little room? Your mom should of dropped you as a baby for thinkin you were born into that family as just a coincidence.

  • Fuccanathiest

    If jainism didn’t believe strongly in Karma, writer of the website would have already been dropped as a baby his Jain parents. Feel free to off yourself any time. I’m gonna save a snapshot of my comment on your page and see if you delete it.

  • Anonymous

    I’M ALSO A JAIN.BEING RAISED UP IN A JAIN FAMILY DOESN’T GIVE YOU THE RIGHT TO SPEAK NONSENSE ABOUT IT.I’M A 6 YEAR OLD KID BUT STILL I HAVE RESPECT AND WELL ASK ANY JAIN MONK TO EXPLAIN YOU THE UNIVERSE WITH THE VIEWS OF JAINISM AND THE ULTIMATE TRUTH.THE WHOLE WORLD WITH SCIENCE AGREES WITH JAINISM-THE WHOLE WORLD !

        WELL I JUST WANNA TELL U DON’T INSULT MY RELIGION

  • Anonymous

    I’M ALSO A JAIN.BEING RAISED UP IN A JAIN FAMILY DOESN’T GIVE YOU THE RIGHT TO SPEAK NONSENSE ABOUT IT.I’M A 6 YEAR OLD KID BUT STILL I HAVE RESPECT AND WELL ASK ANY JAIN MONK TO EXPLAIN YOU THE UNIVERSE WITH THE VIEWS OF JAINISM AND THE ULTIMATE TRUTH.THE WHOLE WORLD WITH SCIENCE AGREES WITH JAINISM-THE WHOLE WORLD !

        WELL I JUST WANNA TELL U DON’T INSULT MY RELIGION

    • MJ

      I am really proud of you .

  • Anonymous

    I’M ALSO A JAIN.BEING RAISED UP IN A JAIN FAMILY DOESN’T GIVE YOU THE RIGHT TO SPEAK NONSENSE ABOUT IT.I’M A 6 YEAR OLD KID BUT STILL I HAVE RESPECT AND WELL ASK ANY JAIN MONK TO EXPLAIN YOU THE UNIVERSE WITH THE VIEWS OF JAINISM AND THE ULTIMATE TRUTH.THE WHOLE WORLD WITH SCIENCE AGREES WITH JAINISM-THE WHOLE WORLD !

        WELL I JUST WANNA TELL U DON’T INSULT MY RELIGION

  • ashish

    I am  from jain family. Todays jainism is very different from jainism taught by mahavira. 2500 years is long time to change orignal form of any religion. Every jain monk has their own interpretation of what mahavira said. That is why we have so many jain sects. There are may sub sects. This is true with all religions in the world. I am not criticizing only jainism. 
    after many years, we find that their is dispute between two monks on the principles of religion. then there are their own followers. In this way their are sub sects. Now one sect let say shwetamber jain tera panth they think theirs is the only way to nirvana. All other roads will lead you to hell. Digamber jain kanaji swami sect will believe in some other way to reach nirvana. now tell me who is right. both can not be right. So what lay man like us do. how do we know what is the mahavira way of jainism. If we make mistake we will go to hell. How are you sure that during mahavira time eating meat of  the anima l that was dead by natural way was not violence or hinsa. There are some very ancient jaina texts if we converty their meaning literaly means monks can eat meat and fish  if they have the reason to believe that meal was not prepared for them purposefully. Somebody down the line does not interpret this scripture literaly they say that word meat and fish denote pulp part of some vegitable. No who is right we dont know. So If all the todays  sects shwetambera digambera and many sub sects have interpreted orignal mahavira idea of jainism we all sure will go to hell. This is true for all other religions of the world.

    • John2find

      Hi ashish,

      Its not about what you want to believe , its about what you sow you get in return and it going to be always this way.

      Eg. you see a good apple on a tree. You try and jump but cannot reach, due to human limitations. You may wish that had gravity been 8.9 instead of 9.8 I would have been able to catch the apple. But your thinking doesnot change the law of nature. he same way law of karma is  not based on what you think, its about this is it.

      First of all as per my understanding of Jainism , concept of hell must have been added later by different sect. I believe in hell is all here. You can see a fly sow its egg in a brain of animal . Its larva eats it brains and then come out as a fly. Think of the pain the animal is facing who’s brain is eaten from inside.
      Isn’t it a hell ?

      Now you said that all sects has different belief which one to believe which to not?

      True. First thing you must understand is jainism itself calims that the knowledge has already been lost due to:

      1. Agams were prepared 170 years aftre mahavira.
      2. Mahavira himself was not able to convey all the knowledge due to limitation of the PRakarit language which is man made. You cannot explain electromagnetic theory in prakrit.
      3.Every one of us have partial knowledge to perceive things, so niether the disciples gained what he was trying to deliver.

      Now you question is how do we know the correct thing, else if we do not do it we will be going to hell .

      First thing you will never go to hell , instead you may become a donkey in next birth who is loaded with tons of load and bitten rigorously. This is hell.

      How to know the correct thing ?

      Find it. As per Jainism , doing a superstition is a aging a sin. Jain are free to explore and know the correct truth and are advices to follow the correct path.
      So find it yourself and then follow the best practices, keeping in mind that you do not commit any violence (core principle).

      you will say one cannot leave without breathing so one cannot find truth without violence.

      You are right that breathing should not be stopped, but yo are wrong that you have not read why jainism has justified breathing. Read it and know it.

      You will say i am all good, even without knowing. that is good, but then you must never complain why a particular thing happened to only me.

      And complaining for nothing in this world is called aparigrah(non attachment)

    • MJ

      Hi Ashish,

      Simple way to get the answer. Only you have to decide what is correct if you are not getting time to learn basics of Jainism under Our great Curent Accharyas.

      Read first CHEEHDALA –> TatwarthSutra –>PrathmaNuyog Shastra(Padampuran->Jain Ramayan) –> CharnaNuyog Shastra(Ratnakrand Shravakachar) –>KarnaNuyog(Gommatsara JeevKaand and KarmKaand) –>DravyaNuyog(Samaysaar).

      Do you know Sanskrit or Prakrit. I am very pretty sure you dont know Even Hindi properly. You are not so much capable that you can interpret or get the meaning of ancient Jain Texts and ethics written by our Great Acharyas.. Then on what behalf of you are asking these Meaningless questions. Can you sit near to a dead animal or dead body of man? For your kind of information In a Human Being body there are anatanant Living beings. And you are saying that Monk can eat meat. If they eat that it will come under Violence as many fungus living in Body will be eaten by them. You guys even dont want to think and saying all whatever is coming in your mind? You are from Jain Family. Haven’t you asked any question or doubts to your parents or Digamber Monks or to any Pandit? I have mentioned Ethics/Shastras named above . Its on you whether you want to read or not as You have no time to clarify your doubts even when these great Shastras and their Hindi Tikas are available Today.

  • Pratik

     Jai Jinendra. We as Jains accept all sorts of criticism from young age.
    The best part of being one is we don’t get flamed because of our non
    violent nature. It itself provides a healthy proof regarding our core
    values and principles. By following our principles we can be sure  the
    world will always look at us with amazement. Jains are compassionate
    towards every living thing in this planet. Therefore we can be rest
    assured there would be less crimes, wars. What makes us so? It’s the
    belief of the karma, reincarnation, heaven and hell etc etc etc. No Jain god cares whether you chose to remain one or chose your own path. Even the basic idea is
    that “No other being in this universe can help you or harm you”. You do
    good, you attract good karma, you do bad, bad karma gets attracted to
    you. It is the laws of the universe. Just because you cant see gravity
    doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. It was unknown to the world before Newton
    discovered it. Karma is something similar. The universe itself governs all the laws. At least our gods don’t say us that I created the universe. They don’t say we will be punished or judged by them. They have attained their enlightenment. The good hearts of the gods wrote about our principles guiding us on their path. It’s our choice what we wish to do.
    They don’t boast of themselves, don’t have ego, don’t have jealousy,
    don’t have pride, they are free from all the desires and passions.

    Science cannot answer many questions.

    Stephen Hawking proposed a description of the Universe in its entirety, viewed
    as a self-contained entity, with no reference to anything that might
    have come before it. The
    description is timeless, in the sense that one set of equations
    delineates the Universe for all time. As one looks to earlier and
    earlier times, one finds that the model Universe is not eternal, but
    there is no creation
    event either. In Hawking’s words, the Universe “would neither be created
    nor destroyed. It would just BE.” 

    That’s exactly what Jainism tells us.

    What science can’t answer is: What happens after death. It’s the same
    thing you cannot answer. You wouldn’t exist to answer that question
    since you are an atheist and since you don’t believe in reincarnation.
    However we Jains can always say, we will be reborn. So we are happy to
    know that we will be born again. And you can sit and think what will
    happen to you after death.

    As far as atheism is concerned. Since you are not a follower of any
    religion or any god. You can be a menace to the society. As you don’t
    fear karma, hell, reincarnation, you can do things which you like as per
    your will. However in that process you might end up doing something
    against the laws of the land causing you to land in jail or face
    punishment. We Jains with the fear of karma and reincarnation would not
    think to cause harm allowing us to live in peace with fellow beings and
    betterment of the society.
    :)

    • Parth

       Flawed argument and especially against Hemant. Hemant is the chair of Foundation Beyond Belief, a humanitarian organization (i.e. they promote charity). The fact you think people without belief are bad people is completely wrong. You have no proof for it (show me an instance where someone said they didn’t believe in God and proceeded to commit crimes). I can definitely show you several cases where people said they believed in God and decided to commit crimes in his name.

      As for “Jains are compassionate towards every living thing in this planet. Therefore we can be rest assured there would be less crimes, wars. What makes us so? It’s the
      belief of the karma, reincarnation, heaven and hell etc etc etc.”

      Please, have you met most Jains? They treat their servants like shit. I’ll admit most Indians though, but clearly Jains are not exactly compassionate towards every living thing. So many Jains wear leather, so many of them have shady business ethics.

      I grew up in a Jain community that mainly deals with diamonds. I guarantee you so many of my community members dealt in blood diamonds, which indirectly lead to war and countless deaths in Africa. We have far more blood on our hands than we care to admit.

      Please do not tell me Jains are good people who are compassionate towards every living thing. I will give you countless of examples proving the opposite point

      If people need hell, reincarnation etc to be good, they really are not genuinely good people, rather they are just afraid to do evil. That’s sad, you’re not being a genuinely good person, you just don’t want to be punished in the same fashion that a child does his homework not because he wants to but because he doesn’t want to get scolded at by his teacher. At least most atheists I know want to do good, not because of any rewards or punishments, but simply because it’s the right thing to do…at least they’re actually good people.

      • John2find

        Well its not about what jains preach today, its about what jain must practice.
        I agree most of the jains may not be a good human, but its because they are not good jain.
        In case of mulims they are good humna because they are bad muslims. The one who follow he Korna word to word is called terrorist.

        But with jian this is not the case , they do not follow word to word what mahavir said.

        So I agree Jain (who are juts born in jain family) may not be good human, its bcz they do not preach what they claim.

      • vikram

        Coming from a Jain family , i totally agree with what parth is saying here , the amount of hypocrisy prevalent in the jain community is mind boggling.

        And i do not even want to start about the blood diamond issue , my own dad deals in diamonds and this one issue has lead to many hot arguments with him.

        and everyone is just ignoring the fact how the varakh or the thin silver foil which is used to decorate the idols in derasar is made,and please do not even give me an excuse of that machines are used as i have personally seen the making of these foil.

        Hypocrisy much !

  • John2find

    Here are my explanation for your bullshit (and I committed a sin here):

    1.Time cycle is all fiction: How did Universe evolved. BIG BANG.
    how did Big bang occurred ? some sort of disturbance happened and the compact mass exploded. I am not interested in what caused that disturbance as I do not believe in god (being a jain (atheist and not the one what current jains are)). So after big bang the masses exploded and this masses are moving apart from each other in the infinite sized space. With time the speed with which the universe is expanding will get slow and again the gravitational pull will be enough that mass will again attract each other and will contract back to form the same mass. then again the mass will explode due to some reason(I guess its due to heat energy bcz as the mass starts contracting the heat starts increasing, but anyway scietista re finding reason for it) and will again universe will be created. So the time will be like cycle.
    now for good cycles and bad cycles . Greed grows as a child grows to adult. a child is not born greedy, its with time that he experiences, that OK chocolate taste very good and his greed start developing for those things. With the evolution of time more and more thing are introduced leading to more and more greed in the world. The more greed the more world goes bad.
    why rape increases more bcz of pornography. Apes were all roaming nudes they never use to get attracted by she-apes breast. But with time we learn that ok chocolates taste that good. (you got my point right ?)

    Also life can never be claimed to only exits on earth in this infinite universe.

    2.Jains believe that they can accumulate and shed karma and this impacts their future lives (reincarnation). There’s no evidence of this.

    Well your problem is you have studied Jainism with you ear, Eye and brain closed. Jainsim never claim the system of karma to be designed due to some divine thing to ensure morality is preserved in universe.
    As per Jainism that its law of soul. Every things has a law , which appears divine unless we come to know what it is.
    If I would have said Gravitational force pull things down before newton people would have thought me fool.

    What I mean is its a law still unknown. You know what is the called hypothesis. A hypothesis is a unproven suggested solution to event. For example no one has seen how actually atoms look like. First came the bohr’s model that assumed atoms to be composed of solid particles revolving around another solid particle in circular orbit. This model was widely accepted at that time and it also was able to satisfy many of the known scientific formula of that time. Than again came Orbital model of atom , it was far more accurate.

    what I mean is same applies to our Jainism soul reincarnation. we do not know the law yet. But its is a possible proposal(a hypothesis) to what some is bonr rich and whay some one is born poor. Which the theory fo chances or random event cannot prove (see next point on this) or theory of after life in abarahmic religions do not prove.

    Reason why I think that law is accurate:

    1. I do not have explanation for why someone is born rich and why someone is born poor. You can say that a chance. But no its not a chance I can determine why I am poor or I am rich. The reason will be fairly deterministic. A random phenomenon is the the one which just occur without any reason. You cannot give explanations why it occurred but in case of why I am poor I can track a reason. I tried opening a Tea shop it did not worked because I was stupid enough I opened on a non business road.(or any other factor>> which is deterministic) not a random phenomena.
    2. I believe in soul. Soul can not be neglected because if we are just chemical and electrical process running in our brain then there can be no imagination.we cannot take decisions . Its us who take decisions and not chemical process. if its chemical process than one should always take same decision in a particular situation. But we are independent to take decisions.
    3. we grow young and we grow old. If its all chemical , we eat things to make our self strong. we grow into adult from a kid by eating same things , that we eat and then grow old. if its just chemical process why do we do not continue growing stronger and stronger as being an adult our immunity increase several fold as compared to child. a children immunity increase with time and an adults immunity decreased with time in spite of the contradictory fact that a Adult is much more healthier and stronger bread than a kid.

    I have many more to explainations but let me skip to other points.

    4.Janis support being free of materialism — not because it can be destructive in and of itself, but because it’ll allow you to more easily break free from the cycle of reincarnation. They’re doing a good thing for the wrong reason.

    What is the wrong in it ?
    what is wrong and right first of tell me. If their is no god  (as Jaisnism do not believe in God and me myself do not believe in it)
    what is wrong and what is right, explain me this. Killing a person is not wrong . a right and wrong thing is relative to a judge (god in this case).

    as we do not have reference to judge we cannot say one things is good or bad. But we can say that if you do this you get that , juts like if you throw apple (on earth in normal conditions) apple will fall back.
    A particle (whether it be a nuclear particle or a souls [some kind of substance]) is independent with any bond unless its not getting effected by anything. If no one can exert any force or in it its all independent. The same is the concept of Aparigrah . no bond to any materialistic thing, no effect of these material to your soul.

    I need to explain it further if you need it just tell me I have more points on this.

    5.Jains don’t believe in a god, per se, but they do believe in supernatural beings who have broken free of the reincarnation cycle to attain Nirvana. In fact, there are 24 beings who have done that… and we know their names. We memorized their names as children. Though there’s no evidence any of them ever “attained Nirvana.”

    OK but we have proof that Mahavira was a historically alive person.
    some sources also claims that they can reliably date till neminath. and Some have claimed that Indus valley civilization has some connection with Adinath. (see wikipedia)

    Ok now to prove Thithankara exist or not here is the proof:

    1. Rigveda was written prior to mahavir (100 years before see wikepidia or some other source you may belive in) Rig veda contain description of Adinath.
    2. So Adinath the founder of Jainism (not strictly but in this time cylce, if you do not believe in time cyle go and read my first explantions ocne again).was preachings same tenets which mahavir taught.(assembling the same tenets at those times when no written from was popular seems skeptical one cannot assemble those tenets unless he himself knows them).

    But still let me assume adinath do not exist.
    BUt you cannot deny from Mahavira.  existed. The person who can tell that microorganism lie and die in water thousand of year ago which we only come to believe in once we have invented Microscope (invented say 300 years ago). he has described various other life forms and other mathematics calculation (mahavira invested permutation and combination, called as VIKALP) and he defined five types of Not defined numbers (search for Wikipedia for this). So a persons who preaches not only physical non-violence and but also no-violents thoughts and has told so many truths , make us to believe that the probability of him to tell lie that” thithnkar theory is true” seems to be inappropriate.

    8.Jainism encourages an 8-day-long (or worse), unhealthy fasting during the holy time of the year. During the fast, you may only consume water that’s been pre-boiled.
    its told as a remedy to fastly shed you karma, nut its not compulsory.

    Example. You have taken a loan form bank , you will be given two options to pay it back.
    either pay it in 2 intallmanets(which will be big and not easy to pay)
    or either pay it in long term returns.But overall amount of time it is going to take will be proportionally increased.

    same applies to karma, which are your debts of this birth and previous birth shed after by the fast. (But I strictly do not believe in this explanations, as fast may be again a misconception that we might have gained, fasting which occurs un0intentionally bcz of being ascetic wil benefit rather than doing it forcefully. I am in a doubt here )

    6.The Jain rules regarding a vegetarian diet seem like they’re made up on the spot. Eggs are bad, but milk is ok. Potatoes and other food from the ground are bad, but there are exceptions depending on the day. Alcohol is forbidden, but young Jains go to bars all the time. The rules make hypocrisy rampant… but almost unavoidable.

    I must say you are the biggest Idiot on this earth (and I committed a sin).

    For potato eating > the issue is not that potatoes have so many living microbes., the issue is that any root should not be eaten as eating a root kills a plant. therefore grains are not forbidden to eat as grains have a very peculiar property that such plants has a finite life span. They will die after there period is over even if you keep on giving them water and environment to survive, A wheat plant only grows in a finite month for a finite period, you kill it or do not kill it, it will die after its month is over. No life remains in it, Its juts the residue without soul. So it can be eaten back.

    For milk and egg. >> this is the biggest idiot thing I can have guessed from an ignorant atheist like you (and I have committed sin)

    When a hen hatch an egg its turns into a Chicken, show me a single cow in the world who can hatch milk and can create a baby out of it. So eating egg is killing a chiken but drinking milk is not killing anyone.

    If you justify eating of egg why don’t you start eating you children when they are of 2 months in your wifes womb, (they are just egg then).

    Got the point ass hole. if need more explanations ask me.

    and dare to post this in your forum.
    Just don’t be atheist just it appear cool, do some research.
    Jain are atheists as I am , but I am not the jain what they are today. I do not belive in stone temples and many more things they practice. But I do believe in one of the most important concept of Jainism:

    Do not start believing without understanding. (its a sin)

    Jainism have itself said that the knowledge it  has in its literature is not full .
    this was because the language which a thithnakr used was human made.(and their was limitation of that language)
    You cannot go and explain electromangentic theory in sanskrit .
    Thithankar was in no way attached to any being he just taught waht he had learned.
     

    • Manishjain31

      Superb replies brother….can you share me your email or FB profile/name at least? send it to manishjain31@gmail.com

      • John2find

         john2find@gmail.com

        • Mitesh Jain

          your knowledge is fantastic ..read almost all your posts ..your arguments are the most correct ones..all non jains will keep critisizing or barking at us because they themselves dont understand jainism and neither their religion completely..

    • Sureshpatil7108

      Jai Jinedra ,
        I have like your reply . I am jain digambar , i truly belive in jainism . jains have fought many wars but never sake of religion only for welfar of humankind in history you will find many examples . Jainism never says if anyone attack you don’t but jainism belive to retaliate them . even first known empreor of india Chandragupta Murya was a Jain after making Akanda Bharat , in his rule india saw a golden age .Chandragupta became a jain monk and lead his remaning life as jain monk at chandgiri .
      suresh

      • John2find

         No You need to re-read Jainism.
        Jainism means absolute Non-violence.
        They (People) hammered nails in the ear of Mahavira, and then came a single tear out of Meditating Mahavira. Not because of the pain (as he has left moh and maya behind, even the love for his own body) but the tear was becuase of the suffering this people has to go through for doing such evil acts. And that why he was termed Mahavir, the bravest who do not fear anything, but has love for everyone.

        As per Jiansim their is no God , so their is no reference for morality. You can do whatever you want.  But you must know you  have to pay back what you do now. You will be in the karmic cycle of Death and life until and unless you reduces your karma to Zero (Moksha).

        You can eat meat or you can do whatever you want , but you must then not complain at any instance of lief that why the bad luck is with me. Its about you do this you get that. You can retaliate if you want , but you must know what consequence it will have later. Forgiveness thats the main rule of jainism.

        Chadra Gupat Morya was not jain indeed by birth. As no one is Jain Indeed even who are born in jain family). You become a jain when you realize and practice what jainism is all about.

        Chandra Gupta was passionate of being world ruler and at last he realized what he is going to earn in real by doing so. All kingdom all land will be left be of no use once he dies, so why to earn it. and this thinking , changed his life .

        • madhu

          u shud become mahatma.m recently married into a jain family where all sorts of ill practises r done…piss bt dnt throw water..it kills “jeev”…foolish!!dnt eat potato bt eat ginger(coz dey themselves like it) nd many more list is endless.
          but thet can hurt humans,hurt smbdys sentiments shamelessley(m a punjabi hundu and evryday i hear u r a punjabi u dnt knw dis u dnt knw dat!!ur vishnu is no god!!dey all r myths,paapi!!!)
          what religion tells u to praise ur ownself bt disrespect others??
          even in ur book(dnt knw the name)which u read during those 8 eight days,they say”if i praised shiv,shivratri,vijay dashmi,durga in short hindu gods,please forgive)
          no other religion says disrespect other religion.

          other den one point of ahimnsa,jainisn ,rather people following it are stupid and hypocrytes and fanatics!!

        • Parshva

          No please! We are jains! We know better about Jainism than you because some scriptures of our religions are only applicable to Jains!!

          • john2find

            You need to re-read your scripture in that case.
            Jainism means absolute non-violence not even non-violent thoughts.

            • drprasad

              everytime when there are riots against minorities jains are in forefront.since they are supporters of RSS . then howcome they are non violent ? see speech of any RSS leader who is jain and you will come to know how violent thoughts they have . they want to kill all the muslims all the christians and eradicate minorioties from india … is it non violence ? killing mosquito is bad and killing people is good ? see what they did in gujrat what they did in orissa against nuns ?

              • john2find

                You are obviously confused with, the difference
                between the followers & doctrine, which proves your limited perception and ignorance.
                For e.g.
                Its same like this case :

                Whenever a smoker smokes a cigarette
                (which has a warning that it causes cancer), in this case you do not
                accuses the Scientist who found that Tobacco causes cancer, but you blame the practitioner who smokes.
                Why don’t you have same perception in case of jainism ?

                Based on your logics, Athesim
                should be credited for 30 million murder Joseph Stalin (was an
                Athiest) was responsible
                for:
                http://listverse.com/2010/06/0

                Its practitioner who ignore & not the fault in Jainism itself.
                Based on your logic , I should derive conclusions that as you used foul words that mean your religion or your beliefs promotes abusive
                words.

                But Jainism strictly oppose not only violent action ,
                but also violent words & thoughts.
                The one who do not adhere and use abusive words and do violence , are sure to make debts of sins, which they need to pay back either in this life or next.

                Jainism emphasize on strict non-violence.

                RSS is an outcome of Conditional violence acceptable philosophy of Hinduism.

                Jainism says no violence is ever justified.

                SO people who may be form jain family and joins RSS and kills other, than they are creating sins and no way Jianims glorify or justify such act.
                Indeed this people are doing such an act its because this people ware not adhereing to the principle of Jaisnism:

                “Don’t do to other which you don’t like for yourself”.
                Jiyo or jine do (live and let live)

              • A Jain

                People are not the same as a religion.
                The religion advocates non-violence. People following it are fallible.
                You guys are not very logical at all.

              • vipul

                Hi, I agree wit you that RSS is against the muslims & christians. but how can you mix this with jains. RSS is an organization of Hindus not of jains. Yes, there are few jains in this organization but it doesn’t mean that whole jain religion is bad so first think what you speaking is logical or not. Jainism is completely logical and scientific religion. and even i can say that there is no religion better that this.

        • mcrimea

          All good, except for the part about reincarnation. Belief in reincarnation permeates all religious thought in the Indian subcontinent (Hindu, Jain, Buddhism), but hardly anyone else came up with it. Very likely it is not a universal truth, or never happens at all. Perhaps it serves as a conceptional tool to think with, without having to believe it to be literally true.

          • john2find

            Just a thought, so sharing , its not an oppression to your
            view.

            Every law in this universe sums as:

            Everything in this universe wants to come at rest. That’s the basic
            property of anything. Everything want to become zero.

            If you heat air, it wants to cool down. If you cool down to much it
            want to get heated to get normal.
            If you throw apple , it want to return to center of
            earth where the total force on it will be zero.
            Earth is rotating round the sun , just because its trying to fall into
            sun and come at rest but every time its fails, but certainly it will
            come at rest one day.
            Everything wants to come to rest.

            Your desire keeps yourself (your consciousness , called as soul, the “YOU”) in motion. You desire to eat an apple , the next
            time you will desire to drink milk and the other next another and
            keep on desiring endlessly if your life has no end.

            You will keep desiring and you will keep your soul in motion.
            What about the desires that are unfulfilled. What about the starin that your consciousness is under to fulfill those desire ?

            Desires are not by-product of chemical reaction in our brain “as per me”. Instead chemical reaction in our brains are resultant of
            what we feel.

            For example, when I am happy and I am laughing , its
            not laugh that comes first, its happiness that comes first (who
            is happy ? our conscious part) and I curl my lips and show my teeth to express I am happy.
            Its happiness that comes first and than the
            laughter.
            But the question is who is happy ??

            who ??
            Consciousness. We call that soul.

            Now what is consciousness ?? Is it any matter ??
            Science don’t have an answer yet to this.

            Yet military atheist firmly believe that ,consciousness is precisely a resultant of Chemical reaction.
            Indeed without a proper proof (proof like 2+3 =5) such beliefs of is no different from theist belief in existence of God. Both don’t have
            proof, just a speculation.

            If you say , NO2 can make you laugh, off course I will say, but not happy.(Happy can only be your consciousness )
            One can be happy even without laughing, that is suppressing the physical evidence of you being happy. So being happy does not depends upon the physical expression, as what NO2 does.
            Being happy can only be experienced by consciousness .

            Proposal of existence of non-material soul is equally probable, as it “try” to explain my consciousness.
            Just like photon is never seen ,and can never be
            tested to exist either (speed of light can never be reached) and
            say precisely, this is what is photon.

            So unless scientist come up precisely with a material and say “THIS” , this is life.
            My argument that soul exist and their argument that it don’t
            exist are equally probable.

          • vicas

            I think you should google about Dr. Ian Stevenson. You will get enough proofs of Reincarnation.

        • MJ

          From which Scripture, Aagam or shastra you have taken hammering nail example? This Mahavira story which you are telling is completely wrong. Do you know 10 Atishay of Tirthankars by birth itesilf? On what basis you are telling all these stories. Tell me the shastra name with its authors name. I am agree with Sureshpatil7108. Ram, Lakshman, Krishna all these are the followers of Jainism. For your kind information I would like to tell you that Lakshman was Narayana. Raaavan was Pratinarayana. And according to rule PratiNarayana(Raavan) was killed by Narayana(Laksman) with the help of Balbadhra(Ram). Whatever you are telling all those facts have been taken fron Shwetamber Granths. Whatever I told you above has been taken fronm Prathmanuyog Shastra (HariwanshPuran)..

          • john2find

            1. Whats ur motive ? Do you mean that Jainism accepts conditional violence ? [conditional violence like for example killing for our own survival]
            If that’s how you think than its wrong. Animism stresses on absolute non-violence. Not only non-violent actions but non-violent thoughts.
            One need to get away from anger in order to be a perfect ascetic and follow aparigrah.
            If you have a different opinion, please elaborate.

            2. I m not sure , from which agam this is or which sutra this is, as because it does not matter, as long as one believes in word “Ahinsa parmo dhrama” Which means “Non-violence is the only righteous rule”.
            Mahavira has summarized the entire Jain dharma in a single line “Live & let live ” which is nothing bu the golden rule “Don’t do to others which you don’t like for yourslef”.

            3. I think Nrayana & pratinaryna concpet are added later in jainism after getting adulterated from it. As all early jains were Hindu converts so they modified the existing jainism.
            HIndusim has effected Jianism , as its clearly evident today.
            Today’s jian think a creator exist, but indeed Jianism is a athiest faith. Jains alos do havans & worhsipp demigods, which is strictly critized under the act of non-violence and aparigrah.

            Pleas eloborate what you mean , by saying all those nrayana and prai naryana fables ?

            DO you mean jainism allows Conditional violence ?
            Or you are saying that Jianism don’t allow conditional violence ,thats why iainism is wrong ?

            I will be able to explain you only once I understand whats your motive ?

            • MOHIT

              My dear Friend, these Narayana fables are not added later. Without having knowledge of 4 Anuyogs How can you say that these are added later on.
              1) Jainism dont accepts conditional violence. Ram was Samyaktavi even after that he has to fight with Raaavan. I would like to give one example of Bharat chakravarti. His was also samyaktvi jeev and he was the king of 6 khands. It means that all kings have to surrender him then only he will become the king of 6 khands. That means even he is following the rule “Jiyo aur jeene do”. But his punya is so much that he has to ask kings to surrender him and all the kings surrendered to him as He was Chakravarti. so Violence is not the purpose of hurting someone intentionally . I have given the Example of Bharat Vhakravarti and Ram, Lakshman, Krishna,Balram. If you dont know about Narayna fables. First read Prathmanuyog Shastra:- Padampuran(Jain Ramayan), Hariwansh puran(Jain Mahabharat). This is enough for you.
              2) How can you say that it doesnot matter from which aagam it is. Without reading Charnanuyog Shastra, Prathmanuyog and others . You are telling your own stories. You should have full proof from where you have taken all this or you are speaking. Whatever our Acharyas(Kundkund, Mantung, Nemichandra, Badrabahu, Jinsen, Puspdant, Bhootbali etc.) have written we have to read it properly their Hindi Tikas and if we are not able we should learn under some current Acharyas like Acharya Vidhyasagar, Puspdant sagar, Vishuddhsagar, Shamasagar, Gyaansagar etc. Without having proper Knowledge of ALL 4 ANUYOGS dont misguide people.
              3) Narayana and Pratinarayana concepts is not added later. For your Kind of informnation. Krishna was Narayana and Jarasandha was Pratinarayana and Balraam was Balbhadra. Do you know something about 63 shalaka purusha ? If you know then only you will get Who are narayana and Pratinarayana. There are total 63 shalaka purusha (
              24 – Tirthankaras
              12 – Chakra-varties
              9 – Vasudevas (Narayans)
              9 – Prati-Vasudevas (Prati-Narayans)
              9 – Baladevas (Balabhadras)
              )
              For your reference : – http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~pluralsm/affiliates/jainism/jainedu/63shalaka.htm
              Acharya Jinsen wrote HariwanshPuran
              Acharya Ravisen wrote Padampuran
              4) You said that ” Today’s jian think a creator exist, but indeed Jianism is a athiest faith.” On what behalf you said this. Why you said that Jain thinks. No in fact you think that a Creator Exist. You know that there are 6 stages in one Utsarpani kaal. Currently we are in Hundasarpani kaal. What are these kaals you can study from Aagams aur will tell you in next post. And in the end of 6th Kaal Only 72 punya shaali Couples left. again 6 kaal starts. but No Creator is there. “Yeh jeev(Aaatma/soul) annadikaal se different paryayon mei tha aur moksha k baad sidhhshila mei viraajmann ho jaata hai.Woh karm rahit aur shareer rahit ho jaata hai”. To understand these Read “Charnanuyog Shastra” :- Gomaatsara Jeevkand and Karmkaand. Then only You will get.
              Without proper Knowledge dont misguide people.But first read and understand Karm Siddhant what are those ..Then read Prathmanuyog and other shastras. Then spread your knowledge. See you dont know What are narayana and pratinarayana. That means you dont know what kind of Karma they did (Raavan and krishna , laksman ) . You dont know karm’s Band, Uday, Satta, Vyuchhati. How many years are in each 6 Kaal.? Darv’s , Gunn, Pryayeh? Vastu Swaroop?
              Mere Bhai my Motive is not to show my knowledge to others as I am not the master of all the Anuyogs. And not to hurt others. But if you spread wrong knowledge to others it can effect you and others. Isse Mithyatav (Grahit Mithyatav) hoga unhe bhi aur tumhe paap lagega.
              Your Brother
              Mohit

          • john2find

            1. The story of “Nails hammered in the ears of Mahavira” , how much true can’t be said, as I was not alive then back.
            But this is the story that what is told to us from childhood by various munis.
            I believe in it to an exntent, as it totally is in agreement with the central main tenet of Jainism :
            “Ahinsa Parmo dharma”[non-violence is the only real Dharma] & “Live and let live” .

            For “some” sources which describes this story are, & you need to read them:

            1. Kalpasutra & Vardhamacharitra
            2.https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/soc.culture.indian/GdC_MlSMCgo
            3.http://www.jainworld.com/jainbooks/tirthankar/bhag-24.htm (its a digambar website)

            2. I only todl that Nrayana and pratinaryana , blaram and Rama , chakratvarti are fables created by hindu converts to encompass Hinduisms with Jainism. And so as to minimize the opposition this monk might have received from vedantic schools.

            If chakravarti is the real concept prove it to us , why in America their is no one common Chakravarti King ever mentioned in their history.
            If chakravarti ware world ruler, then why don’t Americans has no historical artifcats which proves this thing.

            I don’t believe, as this sounds ill-logical and Jianism give at most important to logics.
            Prove me logically how Chakravarti exits.

            Without proper logical explantion, jainism gives me freedom to epress my query.
            Jianism stricly says do not follow anything blindly, you must have reasons.

            The shastra you are refering only provide stories of this people, but where is the proofs , that they existed ?

            Why this chakravarti names are not known in America, africa , australia, if they were world rulers.

            I repeat Jainism never promotes any kind of violence.
            I will love to discuss with you on this via email, as it make no sense we debating here on it. my email is >> john2find@gmail.com
            The main topic of discussion is Criticism of Jainism[which u can support or criticize], but the debate you are trying to do with me is “My version of Jainism is wrong “.

            I am ready to debate it anywhere although.

            • MJ

              Hey dude,

              Whatever site you are showing me for reference is not digamber site . Muni name mentioned there is Shwetamber Monks. And all these monks always follow only Nischay ney and never read any other 3 Granths except DravyaNuyog. In jain library Many of them are Shwetamber Granths. Ok Thats not my issue and worry Because one should be careful when selecting the Shastra.

              1) Story told to you by Shwetamber Muni. I am very much 100% confirmed. as I told you no tear or any liquid like Urine comes from 9 parts of the body of Tirthankar because by birth itself they have 10 Atishay.

              2)The resources which you showed me are based on Shwetamber not as per Digamber.

              3)You are asking why Americans or South African not have the history of Chakravarti. Before Answering that I want to ask some basic questions from you :-

              Ques1) What is Arya Khand and Malechh Khand.?

              Ques2) Which is Bharat Kshetra?

              Ques3) Why Tirthankar’s birth happen only in Ayodhya?

              Ques4) What is the difference of the people live in Arya Khand and Malechh Khand?

              Ques5) Have you ever seen Map of Jambudweep?

              Ques6) Who taught civilization to the world like agriculture, music etc.

              Ques7) Where we are living means to say in which khand and in which Kshetra?

              Anyways here are the answers:-

              Currently we are living in the Bharat Kshetra –> Arya Khand –> Bharat Desh –> Karnataka Prant –>Bangalore Nagri.

              There are 2 types of Kshetra:-

              a) Bharat Kshetra

              b) Airavat Kshetra

              Bharat Kshetra is having 2 Khands:-

              a) Arya Khand( Where Dharam exist i.e. People follow Dhram)

              b) Malechh Khand( Where Dharam dont exist)

              Tirthankara’s birth happened only in Ayodhya as that place is Shaswat(Which always be there even after earth destroy). Sammed Shikhar place is also Shaswat. There is swastik sign under Sammed Shikharji

              Bharat Chakravarti is the king of 6 Khands. You know Human being, animals lives in Arya Khand. That means America and all other continents or you can say that full earth comes under Arya Khand . 5 other Khands are Malechh Khand which in present we are not able to or capable to see . These Khands can be seen by KevalGyani.

              Jambudweep ka Vistaar: – 1 lakh Yojan . where 1 yojan=1000 kilometers

              All our shastras has been spread in almost all other countries. Temples are also there. It means Jains are there and following jain practices. It means all those parts comes in Arya Khand. You can search and found out this in Tatwarth Sutra(Moksha Shastra) written by UmaSwami.

              Area and diameter of Jambudweep, Arya Khand etc.

              Todays all world holds that all Civilazation developed from the Teachings of Adinath as Previous to that All people were living in the BhogBhumi. They learned how to do Farming etc.

              Learn about BhogBhumi and KarmBhumi from Shastras. As I know are listening at first time.

              One Last Question to you:- Give me the proof of Existence of Mahavir Tirthankara ?

              After that only I will give you the existence of Chakravarti..

              You dont have proof whatever you know ..lol Then how you can ask proof to others.. I am giving you all the proofs and where they are written. Whatever I raised the questions above . You dont know the basics of Jainism. Then on what basis you are asking proofs. Nobody is going to proof of each and every thing. Go select the Shastras carefully and read first. For you I have mentioned the Shastras name in the previous post.

              If you dont know proper logical answer then go and find it from Shastras . Why you are teaching to other people with Different and meaningless stories.

              You are asking me proof and in each post I am giving you the proofs. Same thing I asked you and every time you are saying:- “May be ” “Might be” . Boss you can see who is telling stories. In your post nothing can be seen related to Tatwas.

              • Jay

                MJ, you think is digambar way only the right way? no my dear friend, both sects preach same things, but just to prove who is right or wrong – we are not the correct people to judge that.. you should believe in both – shwetambar and digambar.. i am a shwetambar but i dont say that its preached by digambar muni and that is why it is wrong.. no.. you should change such thinking.. we are fighting to prove that what OUR religion is preaching is absolutely correct.. we are not here to fight within ourselves.. try to give correct points against what is said rather than against our own preachings…

              • john2find

                @disqus_5plTBsDDo9:disqus Proofs that Mahavira existed:

                1. Mahavira was real person, as because Guatam Bhudda was a real person.
                And they are of same era, in fact Guatam Bhuddha first become disciple of
                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Udaka_Ramaputta
                In fact Mahavira is mentioned in Bhuddha teaching.
                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism_and_Jainism#Leadership_of_the_sangha
                So if Guatam Bhuddha was real perosn so do mahavira.

                2. As we can see various text non jain text of that time confirm existence of Mahavira , then it again confirms existence of Mahvira. Other relgion call him sharmanas.

                3. Jianism as a religion is the proof of Mahavira , who taught it “back” to the world.

                4.Historians too agree that Mahavira was a real person who dated around >>599 BCE–527 BCE

                http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/358008/Mahavira
                Its again a proof that mahavira existed.

                this are some proof that Mahavira existed.

                verything that exits should have a proof, whats your proof of chakravarti existed and were rulers of the world ??
                why don’t america has chakravarti ?
                DO your chakravarti has such proofs ??

                You are vomiting same thing that weer taught to you , with no logics to support you ground.
                You might be a Database of Jainism, but you don’t have reason to justify it correctness.

                And do remember, Jainism only accepts those aspects that are most rational and most logical.

                Waiting to hear some proof of chakravarti from you.

            • vicas

              Hi Jhon,

              I just want to higlight the fact that Americas history is not more then 600 years old. Before that there were red indians or other tribes who migrated from Asia. It was the European settlers who made America. Chakravarits lived way before that.

        • A Jain

          Jainism does not mean non violence.
          I means following the path of the Jina.
          There are a lot of misconception.
          Also please note. Being born in a Jain family and actually following the tenets of Jainism are 2 different things so please make your arguments with a little more logic than that.
          before one can comment on the religion, you have to actually know all about it, not only your prejudicial view of it.

          • john2find

            jainism do mean absolute non violence:
            अहिंसा परमॊ धर्मः
            You need to read Jainism instead and get your logics cleared:
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahimsa_in_Jainism

            So you get logical in your next argument instead.
            Before commenting about any religion, even if you are born in it , you need to know it yourself first.

    • Mshah

       Hey.. You need to come and listen Jain sadhus for all your doubts. Understood that there are misconception, however, it’s not what lord Mahavir said. We, people, eventually modified the things what our God said to do and follow.

      So please before you come to any point, just go to correct people and learn correct things. There are many religions in this world have their own beliefs. We do not say they are wrong. We respect everyone’s thoughts. But just be careful saying anything bad for Jainism now. You have no right to speak about what you don’t know.

      Hope you try to clear your doubts soon.

      • Noone

        Hmmm who created lord mahavir? PEOPLE !!!

        • john2find

          1. Mahavira is not God.
          Jainism is an atheist belief.
          Its well recorded in Jain text that Mahavira was a man.

          2.Mahavira was a man who nullified all his karma by living an ascetic life and hence was free from cycle of birth and death which are due to karma we make.

          3.Mahavira ((599 BCE–527 BCE) was real person rather than a myth or story.

          Go read some history and do some research.
          Don’t try and sound being an expert , when indeed you know nothing about a subject:
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahavira
          http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/358008/Mahavira

          Buddha and Mahavira are of almost same time, but different locations.

    • Pratpandey13

      Okay jain do not believe in creator or supreme god, but do not disbeliefe in deva! Only most heterodox charvak and most orthodox mimansa brahmins were most atheistic, the charvaka said they are myth the mimansak brahmins said they are mere words and sounds! Neither jain nor buddhist ever said anything closer to refute deva! They were just supposed unimportant to achieve moksha or nirvana! Also I’m an atheist but will show my bias towards hinduism as I’m born brahmin and inclined to piss you off! There is no soul other than body as veda say ” after death body go to earth, breath to airz” no self independent of body no transmigration of soul, as brihadaranyaka upanishad (one of the oldest and pre buddhist) says ” this body made of gross element is returned to those element, after death no soul, nothing remains”

      • John2find

         So how come the soul is born then Friend ??

        If you are atheist, you  cannot say it was created by god nor can you say explain it that a man start breathing after born for no reason. their must be a reason that has sparked the first breath in that man and thats called soul.

        and if you are theist you  have to explain why God do such discrepancies , that Some one is born as son of bill gates and some one is born as a slum dog.
        Why 2 such individuals are destined to be rich and poor ?

        Awaiting response

        • Pratpandey13

          take these points,
          * A man is born rich and poor just by CHANCE. earlier jain believed that one is born girl/boy according to there previous karma. Today we know what chromosome determine that and its total by chance.
          *Just as man grows old and cells divide the same way man starts breathing. It is the very nature of cells to divide, man to grow old. There is no reason for that, no divine plan and no higher attainment. If the newborn do not breath, its called dead!
          *We know worm, ‘kechua’ it is a living being but when we cut it. both part are living, so the soul must be divisible!
          *does a cell have soul? if no then how human being made up of cells have soul? if yes it must have billions of soul!
          *A living person has soul, while dead do not! actually wise has used soul to understand life.
          *Today we are making artificial intelligence.
          *Virus are living-non-living
          *computer programs, firmware, Trojan horse reproduce but do not have independent physical body

          don’t you think soul is an outdated idea! This living body is called having soul, this body produce intelligence, consciousness and mind. the self-identity, or soul is born out of mind, nothing else, as body all go dead!

          • john2find

            1.nothing happens by chance as per physics. Chnace only happens in theist religion for example a god is born by chance & no further reason to explain it further.
            A apple false as it has physics behind, a sky is not raining as it as physics behind.
            Tell me one thing in universe (accept god) that can happen by chance and not by any reason behind it ?
            A kid is born as gilr or boy based on chromosome number agreed, but that an answer to how ? how a kid is born boy or a girl .

            But we need to find the answer for why ? why that kid was destined that all events (events like him mother drank water (for eg) which increased y chromosome count) aligned so perfectly for an individual and not for me or you ? “why destined ?”

            Tell me one example that can happen just by chance and not without a reason for destined to be so ?
            Just breath is not necessary to define living beings (a brain dead is person who can breath but cannot think, he is consider dead as of now).

            2. you said “Just as man grows old and cells divide the same way man starts breathing. It is the very nature of cells to divide, man to grow old. There is no reason for that, no divine plan and no higher attainment. If the newborn do not breath, its called dead! ”

            No way Jainism support any divine plan behind life.
            Jainism says that unless and until you keep desiring you will keep birthing and hence will be sad.
            had cell divisions only reason behind cells to be alive altogether, no cells would ever die , but as we see cells have a life cycle, they grew up old and die even when they are feed with life supporting mechanisms.
            Cell division off course has created new being , but it has to breath or not is still not under the scope of parent cell nor it can control its own life cycle. A life once born has to die.

            3. And you are wrong earth worm dies as soon as you cut it in half.
            Its seems that he is alive for few minutes but keep observing the other part will surely dies as it has no mouth to feed, he can’t eat from his ass.
            Divisibility of soul can be better explained by plant indeed ,where you cut a stem of plant and grew it at another land.

            Life is more complex than you and I think had it been this easy we would have been able to track how to resurrect life back to a human.
            I will say I don’t know as I don’t understand how do life work in real just like you will say for ” why can’t you resurrect life back in a dead” ?
            First thing we need to give a new life is to understand life itslef, which we don’t understand. No way janism say that we have got complete knowledge, the one with one are already assumed to achieve moksha.

            3.”does a cell have soul? if no then how human being made up of cells have soul? if yes it must have billions of soul!”

            I don’t know as even you yourself don’t know what is life. Explain me what exactly is life and I will explain you cell have soul or not.

            You need to read Anekantavada here:
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anekantavada

            Where I don’t know as I am not perfect being as a solution of argument.

            4.”A living person has soul, while dead do not! actually wise has used soul to understand life.”

            You need to clarify further on this what you mean

            5.”Today we are making artificial intelligence.”

            When AI makes a decisions who is the beneficiary its the machine itself or the programmer who has programmed it.
            and when I make decisions who is the beneficiary I or my mother ?
            I guess an honest answer from you will solve your queries.

            6.”Virus are living-non-living”
            I don’t know ,seriously as even your science (as per you ins different form jainsim of mahavira) do not know. The one from my side who knows I claim has already gone and my books already says it do not have the complete infinite knowledge due to finite perception of human mind and limitation of papers.

            7. “computer programs, firmware, Trojan horse reproduce but do not have independent physical body”

            Who is the beneficiary the hacker who perform the coding or the virus themselves ??

            8.”don’t you think soul is an outdated idea! This living body is called having soul, this body produce intelligence, consciousness and mind. the self-identity, or soul is born out of mind, nothing else, as body all go dead!”

            You say “soul is born out of mind “, what is mind and when I sad mind differs from soul??

    • Divesh4u

      Nice one, you have good knowledge and moreover awesome art in explaining. But using bad words is also a violence by words, which you should have taken care of. Gyaanis never looses temper but stays calm and cool

      • John2find

         Dude I tried to and I do believe that I have to pay this karma of anger back some where in my life.
        Working hard on my anger management.
        I am happy you liked my answer.

    • Bimal

      dear friend
      you are ignorant of life. get knowledge and then comment.just think why you have not achieved what you always wanted to achieve?

      • John2find

         Please enlighten me ,were I am missing and which of my point is wrong ?

    • Pratpandey13

      hey john2find, i want to ask your opinion on ‘fast to death’ tradition. Do you favor it, isn’t it suicide? also you time cycle explanation does not provide evidence that events will repeat on or after next big-bang, plz read mine and reply what you think? also i’ll like to talk about Karma (i do not believe in it) and morality!

      • john2find

        @pratpandey13:disqus
        Hi Pratpandey

        1. your query Fast unto death (called as Santhara) , ain’t it a suicide ??:
        Answer:
        Yes its suicide “by definition ” but not by intentions.
        Now what “by definition” means :

        A person once brain dead is kept on life support system (LSS) which can maintain body functions indefinitely.
        As the body keeps growing on LSS the person is alive and his heart will keep beating.
        A person who so ever removes his LSS is a murderer by definition as its because he has removed the LSS the person is dead. We can never be sure whether in future we will find a solution to make a dead, alive once again. So a person who removes the LSS is a murderer by definition as had he not removed the LSS has the person can be recovered back to life in near future.

        So By definition is quite different from its application.
        A suicide is attempted by a person as he is finds death easier than leaving, but santhara is not done with an aim of death (the eternal truth as of now) as an easy part than lving a life.
        Sanathar is done with an aim for betterment.
        Both have a distict objective.

        A sucide is attempted as a person has failed and he think he can’t make things any better.
        Where as Santhara is done with an aim of doing things better (may be correct or wrong belief) for himself.
        Due to the prolonged nature of Santhara, the individual is given ample time to reflect on his or her life as in case of suicide which is not.

        Morality is human made, just few years back we thought that its moraly correct for a man to marry mulitple woman and now its morally incorrect.

        Its we who define morals like eating with right had is correct than with left.
        In case of absence of God (As Jainism do not believe in god) nothing is right and nothing is wrong, you are free to murder a person but you must than know that if you do this you will certainly have to pay it back.

        No god means no morality, morality is soul centric rather than god centric in jainims.
        Each one is given independence to express himself.

        No one asked you that you wanted birth or not, you were just pushed here, so no one holds your breath for what you what to do with yourself.

        Your parents did not asked your permission before giving birth you so they in now way own your life, as they have brought you to life therefore they have to make your grow.

        That what you see in birds and animal, as soon as children grow up they lead their own way. We tribute our prenats not for gving us brith , but for growing us big.
        But in no way we (children hold any moral oblique) to respond in return.
        This is human defined morality to pay back our parents.

        In India parents howsoever bad they may be children are taught to be kind to them, that moral in india and in Other land, parents can’t treat their children bad and if they do so, children are moral correct to punish their parents in return.

        So saying sucide is bad or wrong is incorrect, that a individual decion, you don’t won anyone life other than yourslef.
        you can explian somebody for bettre in life but teling that he is taking is life is morally incorrect is wrong.

        A person do Santhara, as he has no moral obligation of anyone nr of his mother nor of his wife nor of his children. A person is independent.

        In santhara one cannot take once life any other way than fasting and belive me no one can die that way without proper determination , even the emotionally broken.

        Morality hold no ground anywhere in this infinite universe (with no god)the same way as there is no up and down in this infinite universe.

      • john2find

        2. My Time cycle explanation does not provide evidence that events will repeat on or after next big-bang. ?

        Ans: Yes Time cycle will not repeat same way it was in previous.
        Its hindu concept that after one time cycle complete you will be doing the same shit once again.
        No way Jainism says that exactly same set of events will occurs once again, its says that time periods will be cyclic in nature that first the world will be good then it will grow less good , then bad and then worst and this cycle will repeat rather than set of events to be repeating exactly in same manner in each time cycle. (I have explained how world grows bad and bad each day by child and chocolate example read my previous comment) and why world will grow bad and worst.
        This is clearly mentioned in Jain text, that time cycle of goodness and happiness will follow this trend rather than event themselves repeating.

        Proof : next set of thithankars have different name than what was in this time cycle, if jainism was mentioning events to be cyclic Thithankar should have same name and same person who achieved Moksha.

        Now re-read my previous commnet ofn time cycle and make relation that I have explained that its goodness and badness of world that will follow cycle rather than actual set of events to be excatly same in the next time cycle.

      • john2find

        then karma and morality I ma happy to discuss.
        You can mail me here John2find@gmail.com

    • Former Jain

      My friend, your arguments are flawed.

      “1.
      First of all, the Big Bang Theory cannot be entirely proven yet.” Cosmology is a fairly new discovery and we still do not fully understand it. It seems to me that you are saying that the universe will

      end and will be recreated because the big bang theory says so. Well, it simply doesn’t , therefore you are twisting science to try to justify that there are cycles of the universe, which you simply are unable to pot ray any evidence of.

      Greed grows as a child grows to adult- this is untrue, if you study psychology then you must realize that greed is a genetic adaptation to survive in society, the opinion of showing greed is ‘bad’ is extremely subjective not to mention greed being good or bad is situational (meaning some situation may cause greed to be beneficial).

      pornography and rape have no correlation

      Apes do get attracted female apes, otherwise they wouldn’t reproduce

      “Also life can never be claimed to only exits on earth in this infinite universe” – true, but nor can any idea of different life forms can be proved without evidence, hence you cannot claim that there are other life forms that exist exactly how Jains describe it.

      2.

      Personally, i think it is absolutely ridiculous that you compared the law of gravity with Karma, since newtons laws have a scientific basis and karma does not.

      Karma is vague and ambitious.

      1. There is no evidence of karma

      2. There is no way to measure Karma

      - as you know, to reach moksh, your punya and paap must be equal, however if you cannot measure it or calculate it

      3. If your next life is based on your karma, what was your first life based on?

      “we do not know the law yet.”- When the thirthankars reached nirvana, they taught us people about the world before going to moksh, these teachings have been written in the books of Jainism, therefore, there is nothing more to be discovered

      “Reason why I think that law is accurate:”

      “1. I do not have explanation for why someone is born rich and why someone is born poor. You can say that a chance.”- If it is chance, it cannot be karma.

      “2. I believe in soul. Soul can not be neglected because if we are just chemical and electrical process running in our brain then there can be no imagination.we cannot take decisions . Its us who take decisions and not chemical process. if its chemical process than one should always take same decision in a particular situation. But we are independent to take decisions.”- You are unaware of the scientific explanations behind consciousness, do your research before making such absurd claims. Yes, at a biological standpoint ‘chemical and electrical process running in our brain’ are responsible for our consciousness, and taking decisions.

      “3. we grow young and we grow old. If its all chemical , we eat things to make our self strong. we grow into adult from a kid by eating same things , that we eat and then grow old. if its just chemical process why do we do not continue growing stronger and stronger as being an adult our immunity increase several fold as compared to child. a children immunity increase with time and an adults immunity decreased with time in spite of the contradictory fact that a Adult is much more healthier and stronger bread than a kid.” – Learn biology! WE ARE MORTAL BEINGS! THIS REQUIRES A SIMPLE GOOGLE SEARCH!!

      4.Janis support being free of materialism- At a moral standpoint, there is nothing wrong with this, because it is not affecting anyone, besides yourself of course. However, this does not prove the religion to be correct

      5.

      Though there’s no evidence any of them ever “attained Nirvana.”

      OK but we have proof that Mahavira was a historically alive person.- first of all, we do not have any tangible proof, second of all, this is irrelevant because “Though there’s no evidence any of them ever “attained Nirvana.””- you said this yourself

      “1. Rigveda was written prior to mahavir (100 years before see wikepidia or some other source you may belive in) Rig veda contain description of Adinath.

      2. So Adinath the founder of Jainism (not strictly but in this time cylce, if you do not believe in time cyle go and read my first explantions ocne again).was preachings same tenets which mahavir taught.(assembling the same tenets at those times when no written from was popular seems skeptical one cannot assemble those tenets unless he himself knows them).” – This is as good as saying that since i have a spiderman comic book that shows spiderman in it, spiderman is real! There is no evidence of the book being true!

      BUt you cannot deny from Mahavira existed.- yes we can!

      “The person who can tell that microorganism lie and die in water thousand of year ago which we only come to believe in once we have invented Microscope (invented say 300 years ago).”- no evidence for this

      he has described various other life forms and other mathematics calculation (mahavira invested permutation and combination, called as VIKALP) and he defined five types of Not defined numbers (search for Wikipedia for this).- the ability of mathematics does not prove that he is real, and there are many famous mathematicians who are religious, and are still highly intelligence. Religion does not affect intelligence.

      6.The Jain rules regarding a vegetarian diet seem like they’re made up on the spot. Eggs are bad, but milk is ok. Potatoes and other food from the ground are bad, but there are exceptions depending on the day. Alcohol is forbidden, but young Jains go to bars all the time. The rules make hypocrisy rampant… but almost unavoidable.

      Not just the food you mentioned, but, everything has microbes in it, you are kiling microbes all the time!

      “You cannot go and explain electromangentic theory in sanskrit .”- Yes you can.

      • John2find

        HI Former Jain,

        1. “Cosmolgy is a new thing” you need to re frame it instead as a “Vast subject”. Cosmolgy dates back since ancestral ape started using brains.

        For you putting the point to deny Big bang as “rubbish and a no base thoery” , ain’t it appears to you that you are indeed trying to twist the main point , and you can go any level to defy Jainism wrong as you have tattooed your ass with qoute ” I am no more a Jain”. That cool. I am no way saying all is true as mentioned in Jain text themselves that Books themselves are corrupted.

        Big bang theory don’t have concrete proof for eg like : 1+1=2, but it do have experimental supports with no single experimental fact that can defy big bang theory.

        Well My main point is if big bang is true than time should be cyclic (cylic doe never mean same things will happen again and gain read my previous comment for more details.)

        You and theist are no different, both believe in their faith so strongly that they don’t want to listen or understand other possibility.

        Its bcuz Hemant pointed that Cyclic time is all bullshit, so i gave my point indeed his logic is bullshit, which had no second thought.

        You know whats difference between an dumb atheist (Like you) and scientists??
        Scientist first make belief and then they prove it right or wrong.
        Rather than athiest like you who have read tattooed your mind that anything that has a word religion you should stop listening and start opposing.
        You Self Biased dumb head.

        You are such an ignorant that you are defying the finding of Hubble telescope, Red and blue shifts, stretching of EMW across spacetime…
        just to prove that your are not an ass who have falsely made a belief.

        I will like to discuss this in next conversation: If big bang is true then will it expire in force or not and will it contract back or not.

        You may answer “I don’t know”, Then do give me space to use this word as well, I am not Mahavir.

        “Greed grows as child grows point and you replied >> its genetic adaptation to survive in society ” When I said I don’t agree with this.

        You idiot, you respond greed with a better greed, and thats why with each better survival technique, you need to outsmart previous for surviving. As Jain do not believe in God , so no were we credit this greed growth to Some divine law.

        What a dumb head useless brain you got, who even didnot mind reading my explanation in last reply. Do take time and re-read it.

        “Apes don’t get attarcted to breast” you replied “They do”:

        Again a senseless reply just for the sake of argument to prove the opposite person wrong. You idiot, what made you think like wise, apes rome all nude all day and night but they don’t fuck every second. Nore they feel instict to press those pleasure full soft breast unlike their human cousins.

        “Pornography and rapes have no correlation”
        What a faggot you are and in which world you leave in. Don’t you read articles on web “Pornography is a cause in degrading women status”.
        I ain’t said that its the sole reason for rape, but it do certainly contribute a percent in rape attempts.

        2. ” i think it is absolutely ridiculous that you compared the law of gravity with Karma”
        You dumb had ridiculous man, where the fuck Have I compared Gravitation with Karma. Re-read my comments.
        You idiot ignorant athiest (who in reality is atheist only by definition but is worst than thiest when it comes to beliefs).
        I never compared it you need to re-read.

        3. “When the thirthankars reached nirvana, they taught us people about the
        world before going to moksh, these teachings have been written in the
        books of Jainism ”

        You idiot have you aver read this line ” that there are two sect of jianims on e belive that all Agams have lost and other think some of them have lost”.
        Further to add, do you think that this world with infinite knowledge can be written in finite pages of books with a language that has finite words themselves, with mind of people at the time of mahavira not developed young to grasp what the fuck is Electro magnetic wave.

        what a dumb head you are , which you proved in each and every point of yours.
        “You say You can explain Electromagenetic thoery in Sanskrit”

        Common yaar just for the sake of argument don’t give any logics.
        Sanskrit have no sets of words for electromagnetic thoery. DOn’t come back bitch with Hindi words. The language that was used in days of mahvira was neither sanskrit it was Pali. Snaskrit is not hidi, hindi is not pali, pali si not sanskrit. and thats why they have different “names”

        3. Thinsg that occur around are chances : As per physics nothing can happen by chance, everything must a have reason and a law , so don’t give me a reply that it was just a chance.
        Chances never happen in sceicne ,as scince find reason behind every event.
        The question is never how it happedned, the question is why it happened to only this perons and not to any other.
        There is no word as chance in science , give me one example where a theory is explained in science saying ” Its just a chance that an event occur”.
        Only thiest can use word chance ” God appread and disapread ” no theory no explanation just a chance.

        4. “We are mortal being and you are advising me to read biology”
        You idiot.
        When I told we are immortal and for which U prescribed me for reading biology.

        Indeed do you use your brain ??

        As per biology , our only instinct is to survive and for which we need to get better and better to survive every rough situation we are in.
        AS a child grows young it gets better and better in term of immunity, then the question is why do it gets older as it should keep growing for keep surviving.

        Re-read my explantion on this in last comment sensless, shit.

        You have wastes a lot amount of my time and pricks like you are reason why I don’t become a saint, can’t control my anger, for whoich I don’t know how many life cylce I have to go thorugh.

        You idiot.
        A lot more to say < But leave it bitch.

        Michami dukddam.
        Will be happy to hear back counter sensefull arguments to help me out in correcting my knowledge.

      • John2find

        HI Pal,

        1. “Cosmolgy is a new thing” you need to re frame it instead as a “Vast subject”. Cosmolgy dates back since ancestral ape started using brains.

        For you putting the point to deny Big bang as “rubbish and a no base thoery” , ain’t it appears to you that you are indeed trying to twist the main point , and you can go any level to defy Jainism wrong as you have tattooed your ass with qoute ” I am no more a Jain”. That cool. I am no way saying all is true as mentioned in Jain text themselves that Books themselves are corrupted.

        Big bang theory don’t have concrete proof for eg like : 1+1=2, but it do have experimental supports with no single experimental fact that can defy big bang theory.

        Well My main point is if big bang is true than time should be cyclic (cylic doe never mean same things will happen again and gain read my previous comment for more details.)

        You and theist are no different, both believe in their faith so strongly that they don’t want to listen or understand other possibility.

        Its bcuz Hemant pointed that Cyclic time is all bullshit, so i gave my point indeed his logic is bullshit, which had no second thought.

        You know whats difference between an dumb atheist (Like you) and scientists??
        Scientist first make belief and then they prove it right or wrong.
        Rather than athiest like you who have read tattooed your mind that anything that has a word religion you should stop listening and start opposing.
        You Self Biased dumb head.

        You are such an ignorant that you are defying the finding of Hubble telescope, Red and blue shifts, stretching of EMW across spacetime…
        just to prove that your are not an ass who have falsely made a belief.

        I will like to discuss this in next conversation: If big bang is true then will it expire in force or not and will it contract back or not.

        You may answer “I don’t know”, Then do give me space to use this word as well, I am not Mahavir.

        “Greed grows as child grows point and you replied >> its genetic adaptation to survive in society ” When I said I don’t agree with this.

        You idiot, you respond greed with a better greed, and thats why with each better survival technique, you need to outsmart previous for surviving. As Jain do not believe in God , so no were we credit this greed growth to Some divine law.

        What a dumb head useless brain you got, who even didnot mind reading my explanation in last reply. Do take time and re-read it.

        “Apes don’t get attarcted to breast” you replied “They do”:

        Again a senseless reply just for the sake of argument to prove the opposite person wrong. You idiot, what made you think like wise, apes rome all nude all day and night but they don’t fuck every second. Nore they feel instict to press those pleasure full soft breast unlike their human cousins.

        “Pornography and rapes have no correlation”
        What a faggot you are and in which world you leave in. Don’t you read articles on web “Pornography is a cause in degrading women status”.
        I ain’t said that its the sole reason for rape, but it do certainly contribute a percent in rape attempts.

        2. ” i think it is absolutely ridiculous that you compared the law of gravity with Karma”
        You dumb had ridiculous man, where the fuck Have I compared Gravitation with Karma. Re-read my comments.
        You idiot ignorant athiest (who in reality is atheist only by definition but is worst than thiest when it comes to beliefs).
        I never compared it you need to re-read.

        3. “When the thirthankars reached nirvana, they taught us people about the world before going to moksh, these teachings have been written in the books of Jainism ”

        You idiot have you aver read this line ” that there are two sect of jianims on e belive that all Agams have lost and other think some of them have lost”.
        Further to add, do you think that this world with infinite knowledge can be written in finite pages of books with a language that has finite words themselves, with mind of people at the time of mahavira not developed young to grasp what the fuck is Electro magnetic wave.

        what a dumb head you are , which you proved in each and every point of yours.
        “You say You can explain Electromagenetic thoery in Sanskrit”

        Common yaar just for the sake of argument don’t give any logics.
        Sanskrit have no sets of words for electromagnetic thoery. DOn’t come back bitch with Hindi words. The language that was used in days of mahvira was neither sanskrit it was Pali. Snaskrit is not hidi, hindi is not pali, pali si not sanskrit. and thats why they have different “names”

        3. Thinsg that occur around are chances : As per physics nothing can happen by chance, everything must a have reason and a law , so don’t give me a reply that it was just a chance.
        Chances never happen in sceicne ,as scince find reason behind every event.
        The question is never how it happedned, the question is why it happened to only this perons and not to any other.
        There is no word as chance in science , give me one example where a theory is explained in science saying ” Its just a chance that an event occur”.
        Only thiest can use word chance ” God appread and disapread ” no theory no explanation just a chance.

        4. “We are mortal being and you are advising me to read biology”
        You idiot.
        When I told we are immortal and for which U prescribed me for reading biology.

        Indeed do you use your brain ??

        As per biology , our only instinct is to survive and for which we need to get better and better to survive every rough situation we are in.
        AS a child grows young it gets better and better in term of immunity, then the question is why do it gets older as it should keep growing for keep surviving.

        Re-read my explantion on this in last comment sensless, shit.

        You have wastes a lot amount of my time and pricks like you are reason why I don’t become a saint, can’t control my anger, for whoich I don’t know how many life cylce I have to go thorugh.

        You idiot.
        A lot more to say < But leave it bitch.

        Michami dukddam.
        Will be happy to hear back counter sensefull arguments to help me out in correcting my knowledge.

      • Soul

        “Not just the food you mentioned, but, everything has microbes in it, you are kiling microbes all the time!” — The word ‘Ahimsa’ does not exist in Jainism. Its a misconception. The word is – ‘Jivdaya’. Yes, we cannot survive without killing a single microbe. And, so Ahimsa is not possible. But, the idea is to avoid harming other creatures (big, small or miniature) as much as you can.. and that is Jivdaya.
        Jainism has its own branch of Biology, anatomy, physics and Chemistry. Just, as we cannot learn Biology or any other branch of Science, just by discussing few things on blogs like this (We need to devote time and systematically study any branch of Science). Similarly, one cannot learn and understand these various branches of Science (as per Jainism) through the use of blogs like this. One needs to devote his/her time and study these branches through appropriates books written on these branches of Science.

    • sanmativir

      I am impressed by this fact-based/logical (as much as possible) response. They say if life was a mountain, science has barely started uncovering a stone on that mountain.

      I am a Jain but was disconnected all these years as I was brought-up in ‘traditional’ customs-focused approach without understanding why we were doing what we were doing. Now I am trying to connect back with the true teachings of Jainism. It is amazing how the teachings provide a revolutionary concept for attaining absolute Happiness.

      I pity some lucky ones who are exposed to this great way of life (I don’t know what religion is so I will stay away from that term) but due to their karmas are not able to appreciate its message. But I also see others who due to their karmas started believing in the absolute Truth. And there Are such things as absolute Happiness and Truth. It is within you and when you start understanding the nature of each tatva (properties) and perceiving the world with those eyes you will start appreciating that You are responsible for what happens to You. You accumulate karmas and they bond with your soul and become the catalyst in the fruits you receive.

      I am still exploring but so far I am loving the journey and was never happier, more contended and more aware of myself.

      For those who are jain critics, I respect you for having questions as that is the only way to know and believe in Jainism. You might not get all the answers right away but if you are true and committed to the journey then during the process you will realize the ‘why’.

    • ankan

      dude! u writing cannot be considered non-violent…………

      u know ur Jainism so well man…..

      but i have seen Jains being disgusted by mere presence of a squirrel and wearing an expensive silk sarees……

      so all ur jainism comes out while eating food only n not while treating someone economically weak with dignity cuz…..jains r superior i guess?! well don’t take it personally cuz im from a gujju minority college where almost everyone paid lakhs n lakhs as donation to get engg seat n then materialism comes in my mind but i wont hold it against u or jains cuz to provide ur children with the best is right for anyone n anyhow….so leave it….point being no religion is perfect and so is Jainism or being an atheist for tht matter but stop shouting on someones face with gurugyan (or gujju gyan) without being in his shoes man! take a chill pill……………………….

      but how come u disrespect mother land and not eat anything that is below the soil motherfuckers! u dont disrespect the land…its like HEY V ARE JAINS….V ONLY EAT BUT DO NOT SHIT! cuz its yuk n impure but only on selected days…other days its fine to eat potatoes and to shit as well….n i dont even wanna start on Sati rituals…..n in general religion being disgusting…………….
      nothing personal or hard feeling brother…..if i ever have to meet you ill show you the same respect i show to my friends, a homeless bum or m professor…..
      but its about tym v get over this – mera bada hai, mera achcha hai, mera lal hai stuff’

      b a humanitarian n all the reincarnation/racism will b taking care off.

      • ankan

        n y the fuck cant you explain electromagnetic theory in sanskrit motherfucker…………i knw soon after the first 2 para u became confident n open n felt liberated to go on and on and on like i am feeling right now…..ttry n b polite if ur such a jainist man….u abusing the poor guy for nothing

      • john2find

        Hi Ankan,

        Greetings for the
        day.

        1. You are obviously confused with, the difference
        between the followers & doctrine, which proves your limited
        perception and ignorance.
        For e.g.
        Its same like this case :

        Whenever a smoker smokes a cigarette
        (which has a warning that it causes cancer), in this case you do not
        accuses the Scientist who found that Tobacco causes cancer, but you
        blame the practitioner who smokes.
        Why don’t you have same
        perception in case of jainism ?

        Based on your logics, Athesim
        should be credited for 30 million murder Joseph Stalin (was an
        Athiest) was responsible
        for:
        http://listverse.com/2010/06/05/10-people-who-give-atheism-a-bad-name/

        Its
        practitioner who ignore & not the fault in Jainism itself.

        Based
        on your logic , I should derive conclusions that as you used foul
        words that mean your religion or your beliefs promotes abusive
        words.

        But Jainism strictly oppose not only violent action ,
        but also violent words & thoughts.
        The one who do not adhere
        and use abusive words and do violence , are sure to make debts of
        sins, which they need to pay back either in this life or next.

        2.
        Your confusion is evident from the way you used your words:
        1.
        >>nothing personal or hard feeling brother<>motherfucker < I
        fucked your mom, as only that way I can be your brother and
        Motherfucker both at the same time.

        A bad experience of your
        with selfish people had made you conclude that the religion itself is
        wrong.
        When indeed you are wrong, as Jainism do not teach those
        stuff, those who do so are creating sins as per Jainism.
        “Live
        and Let live”, that the golden rule jainism is all about, those who
        don’t do it , they may be born in jain families but they are not
        jains.

        3.How come u disrespect mother land and not eat
        anything that is below the soil motherfuckers! u dont disrespect the
        land ?

        Your above ideology explains that your idiocy is
        extreme.
        1. Motherland is concept originated by idiots who bunt
        their real man for imaginary lines they create.
        Nations I defined
        by humans , every land is for every one.
        2. Jainism oppose killing
        of every being howsoever small it is. Jainism prohibit eating of
        roots of plants as eating roots kill an entire plant. Grains can be
        eaten as they have peculiar property , that their life is time is
        very small. Juts alike a human has avg age of 70 yr, a dog has avg
        age of 12-14 yrs, grains have their avg life of 3-4 months, and they
        die once their age is over even if you keep giving them water.
        So
        when you eat grains, you don’t kill it, its dies on its own.
        But
        when you eat root (like potato) you kill the plant.

        There is
        no disrespect of mother land (no divine super mythical Mother land
        exist) of any one.
        We don’t eat roots, as that kills plant.

        4.b
        a humanitarian n all the reincarnation/racism will b taking care off.

        You are an an idiot and has surpassed all level of
        ignorance.
        Jainism is the only religion in the world whose chief
        concept of non-violence (as said by Mahavira : “Live & let
        live”) is rephrasing of golden rule: “Don’t do to other which
        you don’t like for yourself”

        The principal of non-violence
        to all living beings is base of all morality in this world, thats
        what Jianism teaches.

        5.>>>n y the fuck cant you
        explain electromagnetic theory in sanskrit <<>>motherfucker…………i knw soon after the first 2 para
        u became confident n open n felt liberated to go on and on and on
        like i am feeling right now…..ttry n b polite if ur such a jainist
        man….u abusing the poor guy for nothing <<>
        Asshole.
        Which even describes you with you lats post.

        Now
        why was he idiot is explained by me in my comment
        :

        http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2011/07/03/the-problems-with-jainism/#comment-882464823

        So
        please come back next time only if you have logics to defy good and
        bad time cycles of Jainism wrong.
        If you can defy defy the logic
        why eating egg and milk is different.
        If you can defy why we die
        and explain logicall why some one is born rich and some one is born
        poor.

        7. If you come back with trash words, I too will be
        oblique to use abusing words , as because then I will be ready to
        bear the results of sins created by abusing you.

        Better prove logically wrong and prove others that you are not an idiot as you appear in your first post.

    • manoj kumar

      Infect you are not matured enough. You are like educated foolish, who is so called idiot. Who study science and then misinterpret things according to your own logic without understanding even single word . you need little more time to understand what is Jainism all about. It is the only religion which teaches the life among the all living being in the universe(PARASPRAGRAHO JIVANAM). give yourself sometime to study all religion comparatively and then with cool mind try to understand the Jainism. Also be free from Biasness because biasness is your problem.

      may god show you a way.

      • noname

        so ok to eat plants ( Science +1 life ) and not to eat an egg ( Science + 1 life ) ?? HOW !???

        • john2find

          1. Eating habits in Jainism>> you have no idea on this topic.
          And still you consider your self as if an expert and as if you know everything.

          Just to clear you concepts>>

          1. Jianism prohibits eating of roots (or underground veggies like onion garlic , potatoes, carrot…. ). As eating a root kills an entire plant. So Jainism prohibits such vegetables.

          2. Jains can eat leafs>> as eating leaf does not kills a plant.
          Plant regrow their leafs.
          Further to add , pulling leaves does not give pain to plant.
          Had plant been feeling pain when some one pulls their leafs , they might have evolved agile, just like animals.

          Animal can move cuz they need to save themselves from predator, as predator gives them pain.

          3. Jains can eat grains like wheat , corn, bajara….

          Grains are plant which have a peculiar property that their average life time is very less (say 4 months).

          Just like a man has average life of 70 years, dog has 12 years Grain plants have average life of 4 months.
          They die once their life cycle is over , even if you keep giving them water and soil.

          So when you eat grains, you don’t kill the plant, it dies on its own.

          Now For egg>>

          1. Read about this>>
          http://www.thepoultrysite.com/articles/837/parthenogenesis-embryonic-development-in-unfertilized-eggs-may-impact-normal-fertilization-and-embryonic-mortality

          2. Coming to unfertilized eggs, eating it will not be a killing of chicken , but:

          Poultry farms exploit, torture and kills hens to get those eggs.
          Those killing and associated violence are attributed to people who buy those eggs.
          So its again prohibited.

          • Gautam

            I really appreciate your replies john!! I m likely impressed !!!seems u know a lot bout jainism … i really really wish to be like u..and devolop ur thinking perspective….

    • jai

      Hey John, I really relate to what you have written down in Reply to Mr X. And i believe like you and myself and my family there are very few jains who are really believing in jainism the original way. Many thanks. and would like to get to know you better. here’s my e-mail. mailmenow909@yahoo.com. Names jai

    • Henry

      Chicken eggs are unfertilised and would not turn into baby chickens if we didn’t eat them.

      • john2find

        Hi Henry,

        1. Unfertilized eggs are a new concept, so at that time when jainism was created [probably 2500 years ago] they used to have only fertilized eggs available then. Which must not be eaten if you preach non-violence.

        2. The central core of Jainism is non-violence, so as long as a thing do not kills any living thing its ok to have.

        I fact one can do anything he like as per Jainism as Jainism do not prohibit, it suggest that if you aspire for not bad in your life, do good and don’t do bad .
        Jainism believes that if you do violence than you can’t escape the cycle of brith and death.
        And life is full of miseries, so if you keep doing bad [violence] to other you are going to experience bad [violence] alter or sooner.

        3. Coming to unfertilized eggs, eating it will not be a killing of chicken , but:

        Poultry farms exploit, torture and kills hens to get those eggs.
        Those killing and associated violence are attributed to people who buy those eggs.
        So its again prohibited.

        • noname

          So killing a person with coma ( just because it doen’t have all the 5 senses ) is perfectly ok ?

          • john2find

            1. I did not talked about number of senses in my above explanations. From which I conclude your views are certainly based on explanation you might have listen from others , but you did no research on what jainism is indeed.

            2. Jainism prohibit any from of killing. Be it killing of a single sense organism or be it multiple sense organism.
            So your claim , as per your own understanding, is wrong.
            Killing any one is prohibited in jainism.

            The key principle of Jainism is non-violence, and the summation of Jainism is golden rule:

            “Don’t do to others what you don’t like for yourself”.
            [=live and let live]

            3. The next question you going to ask is then why than Jains even breath ,that too kills million of microbes.
            Why killing of microbes don’t they have life ?

            For which some of jain-born-people , you asked same question might have replied that they are single sense organism.
            This explanation is incomplete.
            The complete explanation is presented here (please do read it completly):

            Their are several forms of life>
            One , two , three ,four and five senses organism…..

            Microbes are categorized as one sense organism , as their only sense of life is survival.
            A dog is a five sense organism (just like us).
            It has a family bonding , it knows what taste is , it can see , it can feel (they get depressed and happy),it can smell, it can hear….. many more.

            So the amount of karma (sin) associated with killing one sense organism is lesser (lesser not nill, very important to note) as compare to you killing a dog which has all five senses.

            When you kill a microbes, you have only prohibited its will of survival, so the karma that associate is lesser (not nill) and hence less sever pay back for the karmas.
            But when you kill a dog you have denied its other wills resultant of its other senses. So your soul associate more karmas and hence severe pay back for this karmas.

            >>>>Now when jain breath or any human breaths, and kills million of microbes.They do associate some karma,for which they need to pay back.

            But, think on this:
            Do living in your body (for soul) is a kind of pain or not ?
            If your
            soul (or consciousness or essence of you), is not in discomfort in
            this body why do it keeps on needing new things every time ?
            Cycle of life and death is full of miseries.
            Even breathing is a pain for which you need calories so that your lounge can function ,of which you need food, for which you need to work and hence is a kind of mental pain.

            And you are facing this miseries inadvertently associated with life like >> breathing, eating, body function, head aches….
            cuz you kill microbes each and every instance of your life.
            This pain is less but proportional to the karma in killing one sense organism.

            SO no way one can escape karma of killing microbes or one sense or multiple sense organism.

            If you have done a karma you have to pay it back, in order to follow conservation of natural laws.

            4. You asked >>
            So killing a person with coma ( just because it doen’t have all the 5 senses ) is perfectly ok ?
            It require very common sense to understand this:
            >It cannot use all its sense at present situation, does not mean it never will.
            >You kill a microbe you kill a man , both will add karma of different weight to your soul and your soul need to experience proportional pain you have given them.

            And karma in jainism “is not” like this>
            That if you killed some one in one birth, the other birth the same person will kill you back.

            Karma in jainsim is like>>
            If you kill some one , the amount of pain your soul has to pay back will always be equal to amount of pain you have given to the other soul.

            So for killing some one might result in :
            either you might be killed too,
            or you might get slaps (as give in arab countries) to an extent you start wishing you rather die.

            or any other way , but total amount of pain will always be qual you have given to the other souls.

            That’s balance of karma.

            • Prakash

              i totally agree with johns view…….

    • Rohan Shah

      hey..please send this on my id too… rohanshah@sify.com

    • Rahul GB

      I am An IDIOT agreed in starting of the post and also what not *&£***!

      “When a hen hatch an egg its turns into a Chicken, show me a single cow in the world who can hatch milk and can create a baby out of it. So eating egg is killing a chiken but drinking milk is not killing anyone.”

      Not interested in the Egg funda there are some things called cannibals they eat every thing so chuck it. But coming to milk, The first right for Cow’s milk is for its calf’s and how do you assume humans have the second right to take that Milk [you might say the milk will get wasted and its not good for cow to store more milk and is hazards to Cow. Cow never asked your help on this please spare it] Stop sucking milk from the Mammals from my point of view its Milking the cow is a biggest Violence.

      The reason why we are like this is because of the manipulative brain we have which can make humans Superlative or Inferior.

      • john2find

        Dude if you have taken time to read authors comment:
        That Jain seems to have sarcasm on egg , but they seems to accept milk.
        and then try relating my answer , you would have not been confused the way you seems to be.
        Any act that , does not harm any being and is not done against that beings wish is not violence.

        Cattle produce more milk then that is needed by its baby.
        Moreover calf start eating as soon as they are born, unlike human child which depends solely on mothers milk for six month.
        And Cow (most cows) don’t react if you milk them , so the act is not against their wish either.

        if you ever have done milking of any cow , you will see those one who dislike kicks and one who don’t does not kicks and only bother eating.

        Its of no doubt that the first right of cows milk is of the calf , but the remaining which is unused what needs to be done about that .

        A cow produce 25 liters a day another cow produce 4 liters a day

        do that mean their respective calves have different requirements ??

        Most cow produce milk more than needed by calf.
        And if that milk is extracted once calf feeding is done and cow has no issue to it , is not violence.
        And such milk is acceptable.

        However dairy milk might violate this condition and hence can be consider a violence, but if one owns a cow and it gives milk in surplus consuming that is not a sin.

        • Rob Vegan

          Here’s the violence in milk: adult female cows are routinely inseminated throughout their life to keep them pregnant so that they will continue to produce milk (akin to rape in humam terms). Any male off-spring from these pregnancies are either killed at birth or within a day of birth (usually with a bolt gun through the brain), since they have no use to the milk industry, or they are shipped off to live a miserable short life in a veal crate. Female off-spring are separated from their mothers, breaking their strong parent-child bond (cows have been recorded as pining for their calves for weeks after giving birth), and sent to feed lots to begin the same fate as their mothers i.e. a life of enforced pregnancies and over-milking until all they are good for is slaughter.

          Never make the mistake of thinking that we humans just take excess milk from cows and that milk is humane or non-violent. And I have not even mentioned the health problems that drinking cows milk causes us humans – google for milk growth hormones (which is linked to girls reaching puberty earlier), and milk has also been linked to breast cancer, diabetes, osteoporosis…

          • john2find

            Dude this torture of COW and calf do take place in your countries, not in India (in majority) where cow is consider holy animal. In India one cannot eat Beef , as its a holy animal for most of Indians.(Jainism is a religion of Indian origin)

            So if Animal is abused to get the milk, jainism prohibits taking any such milk. as the main Concept of jainism is >> Non-violence.

            but where cow is not exploited and Cow gives sufficient milk for Calf , Milk can be consumed .

            Do note , as told in previous comment as well :

            One of the cow produce 25 liters a day another cow produce 4 liters a day .
            Do that mean their respective calves have different requirements ??

            Most cow produce milk more than needed by calf.
            And if that milk is extracted once calf feeding is done and cow has no issue to it , is not violence.
            And such milk is acceptable.

            However dairy milk might violate this condition and hence can be
            consider a violence, but if one owns a cow and it gives milk in surplus
            consuming that is not a sin.

    • amit

      even if you don’t do any of the rituals you have mentioned or not mentioned,jainism do not take away your right to be Jain,because its not only a religion but it is feeling it is a way of life,you don’t need do any thing you don’t like,means don’t fast if you don,t like it’s not compulsory.

  • Abhi72k

    After reading all the comments I think in order to get rid of all the malaices of this world jains should stop conceiving. After some years there will be no sufferings, no karma and the only people who will survive are those who can suffer and make this world a more beautiful place.

  • ModernJain

    A major idea in Jainism is to live and let live.  And it is because the philosophy is ultimate respect to any living thing.  I am not the most religious person, but as a young Jain I have a lot of respect for the religion.  Who said you can’t practice some philosophies of a religion, and still not be considered Jain. Jainism doesn’t force beliefs on people, you do as you feel is appropriate for yourself.  Some people to taap which is more fasting and more penance, while some people may go to their temple once a year.  Whatever it is, they never claimed they are the most devout followers, so why assume that there is some hypocrisy….people do what they feel is appropriate.  Not everyone can be the most religious like a sadhu (nun).

        Let people believe what they want to, if it what makes them happy.  No one on earth is an all powerful being who can read minds, so if someone believes in something that is helping out the world to be a more peaceful place…why must people find criticism in it.  I get you want to find the truth…but if you are not well read on the religion to the point that you can discuss something with a scholar, please watch your words.  Because Jainism has its own advanced science that is very intense that describes geography/physics/ etc.  You may think it is all “fiction”…but I guess you can argue just about any point and say it is a theory or fake.  The point is people are entitled to their beliefs whether or not it makes sense to you or not.  We can argue with science, religion, etc.  pretty much any subject on this matter..we have very little knowledge what the truth actually may be, but it is good to find solace and practice something that benefits so many living creatures, earth, etc…
       I think you are entitled to your opinions, and can understand that just because it is a non violent doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be criticized…but some things don’t always have answers…we take from it what we can…and if it benefits us and others…sometimes those truths are what we need to remain happy.

  • ModernJain

    A major idea in Jainism is to live and let live.  And it is because the philosophy is ultimate respect to any living thing.  I am not the most religious person, but as a young Jain I have a lot of respect for the religion.  Who said you can’t practice some philosophies of a religion, and still not be considered Jain. Jainism doesn’t force beliefs on people, you do as you feel is appropriate for yourself.  Some people to taap which is more fasting and more penance, while some people may go to their temple once a year.  Whatever it is, they never claimed they are the most devout followers, so why assume that there is some hypocrisy….people do what they feel is appropriate.  Not everyone can be the most religious like a sadhu (nun).
        Let people believe what they want to, if it what makes them happy.  No one on earth is an all powerful being who can read minds, so if someone believes in something that is helping out the world to be a more peaceful place…why must people find criticism in it.  I get you want to find the truth…but if you are not well read on the religion to the point that you can discuss something with a scholar, please watch your words.  Because Jainism has its own advanced science that is very intense that describes geography/physics/ etc.  You may think it is all “fiction”…but I guess you can argue just about any point and say it is a theory or fake.  The point is people are entitled to their beliefs whether or not it makes sense to you or not.  We can argue with science, religion, etc.  pretty much any subject on this matter..we have very little knowledge what the truth actually may be, but it is good to find solace and practice something that benefits so many living creatures, earth, etc…
       I think you are entitled to your opinions, and can understand that just because it is a non violent doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be criticized…but some things don’t always have answers…we take from it what we can…and if it benefits us and others…sometimes those truths are what we need to remain happy.

  • Shubh..

    hey! you are talking about no proof of existence of jain gods.. please read it..
    “lord mahavira attained nirvana some 2600 years ago..
    jains believe gods to have attained all knowledge of world before attaining nirvana..
    it was because of this “all knowledge” that lord mahavira 2600 years ago(at time when no microscopes existed) advocated the presence of microorganisms in water and hence asked his followers to filter it befiore drinking..(filtering is in itself a well defined process and better known as ‘jiwani’. it is such that it leads to not even killing of filtrate microorganisms) 
    if lord mahavira did never existed..how the hell did jains could see microorganisms in water since ancient times????????????

  • Poonam Arhat

     :-
    परशुराम की हत्या
    जैनी कह रहे हें कि परशुराम की हत्या जैनियों के आठवें चक्रवर्ती सुभौम ने कर दी थी ।
    अभी अभी एस लेखक ने एक जैन फोरम पर भगवान विष्णु के छटे अवतार भगवान परशुराम के विरुद्ध यह विकृत कथा पढ़ी जो जैनियों  के त्रिषष्टि शलाका पुरुष ( 63 heroes of jainism ) से उद्ध्र्त हे ।

    मूर्ख अंधविश्वासी और कल्पना जाल में फँसे हिंदू जिस परशुराम को चिरंजीवी मानते हे असल मे उसकी हत्या जैनियों के आठवें चक्रवर्ती सुभौम ने कर दी थी ।
    रेणुका, जमदग्नि ऋषि की पत्नी उम्र में जमदग्नि से बहूत छोटी थी वा जमदग्नि उसे संतुष्ट नहीं रख पाता था इस कारण रेणुका का सहस्त्रार्जुन से संबंध हो गया । जमदग्नि को जब रेणुका के व्यभिचार पता चला तो उसने अपने पुत्र परशुराम से रेणुका का वध करा दिया ।
    रेणूका की हत्या का बदला लेने के लिए सहस्त्रार्जुन ने बूढ़े जमदग्नि की हत्या कर दी । ईसपर परशुराम ने अपने पिता की हत्या का बदला लेने के लिए सहस्त्रार्जुन पर हमला कर सहस्त्रार्जुन को मार डाला वा सहस्त्रार्जुन का राज्य हथिया लिया ।
    पर सहस्त्रार्जुन की गर्भवती पत्नी तारा किसी प्रकार से वहाँ से भागने में सफल हो गई ।  वन में जैनियों के  महामुनी शाँडिल्य ने  तारा को संरक्षण दिया । जब तारा ने पुत्र को जन्म दिया तो महामुनी शाँडिल्यमुनी ने उसका नाम सुभौम रखा । युवा होने पर शाँडिल्यमुनी ने सुभौम को समस्त युद्ध कोशलों मे निपुण किया जो आगे चलकर जैन धर्म का आठवाँ चक्रवर्ती बना ।
    बाद में जब शाँडिल्यमुनी ने चक्रवर्ती सुभौम को उसके पिता सहस्त्रार्जुन की हत्या की बात बताई तो अपने पिता की हत्या बदला लेने के लिए परम चक्रवर्ती सुभौम ने पापात्मा परशुराम का वध करके अपना रज्य पुनरर्जित कर लिया ।
    बाद में महाबली चक्रवर्ती सुभौम ने शाँडिल्यमुनी की प्रेरणा से ब्राह्मणों का नरसंहार प्रारंभ किया वा सारी पृथ्वी को ब्राह्मण विहीन कर डाला वा जैन धर्म के प्रचार-प्रसार वा संरक्षण में लग गया ।
    इस कथा के अनेकों वर्सन जैन वेब साइटों, जैन फोरमो, एवं जैन ब्लॉग्स पर पड़े हें ।

    हिंदू धर्म के समस्त विद्वान जानते हें कि मोर्यकाल के समय राज आश्रय मिलने के बाद जैन मतावलंबियों ने हिंदू धर्म के विरुद्ध किस प्रकार का घातक विष वमन किया । समवायांग सूत्र,
    बृहत कथा कोष, महापुराण, त्रिषष्टि शलाका पुरुष चरितम, विकेक सार, पउमचरियं, जैनियों का पद्मम-पुरण जैनियों का हरिवंश पुराण आदि अनेक जैन ग्रंथ इतने घातक रूप से हिंदू धर्म एवम हिंदू देवी देवताओं के विरुद्ध विष-वमन से भरे पड़े कि किसी भी हिंदू की धार्मिक भावना भड़क उठे वा ४० लाख से से भी कम जनसंख्या वाले जैन मतावलंबियों का १०० करोड़ से भी अधिक जनसंख्या वाले हिंदूओं के मध्य शांतिपूर्ण अस्तिव ख़तरे में पड़ जाय।
    यह तो सौभग्य की बात थी कि अल्पसंख्या होने के कारण अथवा कायरता वश जैन अपने अंदर का हिंदूओं के विरुद्ध वैमनश्य स्पष्ट नहीं करते थे। पर दुर्भग्यवश अभी अभी जैन विद्वान,  लेखक वा जैनमुनी  अनेकों वेब साइटों और जैन फोरमों एवं जैन ब्लॉग्स पर हज़ार वर्ष पुराने गड़े मुर्दे ज़ोर शोर से उखाड़ रहे हें ।
    हिंदू धर्म के विद्वानों को हिंदू देवी देवताओं के विरुद्ध जैनियों इस घातक विष वमन को रोकने का यथोचित प्रयास करना चाहिए ।
    जैनी भी अगर इतिहास के गड़े मुर्दे इतिहास में गड़े रहने दें तो उचित होगा ।
    देखें : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jainhistory/message/692
    #

    :-
    आदि शंकराचार्या की हत्या ।
    जैनी कह रहे हें कि आदि शंकराचार्या की हत्या जैनियों ने की थी ।
    एक अन्य वेब साइट पर जैनी कह रहे हें : पापात्मा आदि शंकराचार्या ने चोथी सदी में दस लाख से अधिक जैनियों का नरसंहार करा डाला वा एक लाख से अधिक जैन मंदिर तुड़वा डाले जिससे भारत वर्ष में बहूसँख्यक जैन अल्पसँख्यक हो गये ।
    वो तो ३२ वर्ष की अल्पायू में शंकराचार्य को दो जैन मुनियों ने विष देकर मार डाला अन्यथा शंकराचार्य सारी धरती के जैनियों को मरवा डालता ।
    देखें : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jainhistory/message/841
    #

  • Nidz S0192

    The idea of Jainism certainly nothing more that non-violence.  It is a uni-faceted religion which doesn’t serve many purposes as not all suffer from the tendencies of violence, so unfortunately it is unable to bring a lot of people under its wing, though having a noble cause. However, the purpose of “non-violence” makes more sense considering only behavioral aspects,  it makes no sense regarding foods. It amuses me how Jainists rubbish vegetable like onions and potatoes (important sources of vitamics), which are creations of God , in the NAME OF GOD!! I think that is horrible. And when you ask a jainist about their religion they will proudly say it is based on science, but shouldn’t a religion be about spirituality and all the things beyond human limitation? Science is amazing, it is a must, but making it an integral part of God seems limiting as science is unable to answer ALL questions, that doesn’t stand true considering an omniscient entity. A religion based on science, should know about the food chain, and that each organism is dependent on the other. Is it a sin for a tiger to eat a deer? Speaking of non-violence, they should not eat ANYTHING, because plants are very much living and can very much feel, a religion based on science should know that plants also have an impulse system more complicated than humans, they undergo a process called bleeding of sap akin to ours and also respond to positivity and negativity. 

    The idea of non-violence is a great philosophy. But that’s about it.  Nothing outstandingly divine about jainist beliefs. There are many non-jain people including christians and even some atheists that believe in non-violence, that particular thing does not become their religion, now does it? 

    People doing what they feel is appropriate can be exploited at times. A religion should have an omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient being for guidance. If we appropriate anything to our convenience then why is incest looked down upon? We know it is unnatural but in the name of “do as you please” it is fair, yet an infamy for certain obvious reason. They do believe in karma though but their steps for salvation through penance is pretty much inexistent. They would come home trouble their daughter -in-laws , go to a pilgrimage and convince themselves they have booked themselves a speck of heaven, but is that the right way of salvation? 

    I would disagree on the fasting part. Many of their fasts are proven to have a detoxing effect on the internal system, cleansing it completely.

    But and over-all jain diet is horrble and makes no sense. There is no proof of such a diet being scientifically beneficial.

  • Darsh Jain

    Grew up as a Jain, never regretted it for a second. 

  • Manishjain31

    Just stop the non-sense…your shit points….if your mind is not capable enough to learn and understand the things then problem is in your mind – and not in the theory and implementation of jainism….and if by birth jains do anything wrong then how can you say jainism wrong…everything can not be seen from naked eyes and can not be felt right now or everytime…….ok? read and research your own…..I am sure you will not get any answer till your end of life…..life is very short man to understand such things….would be better – do the things what your heart says…. don’t post such things…..hope you will understand….. 

  • Phoenix

    Everybody has a different viewpoint of an idea. According to me (What I have studied till now), Jainism is all about knowledge. What do you know about the world around you. The day you know everything or attain ABSOLUTE KNOWLEDGE, I don’t know about other people but a jain would listen to you and follow you. Then its in your hand do as you please. Your words would be JAINISM. And do not bring women in this matter, religion and marring a women are two completely different things and it insults the religion. Its good that you are Jain and they follow non-violence. Thats all I have to say. BYE BYE.

  • human2011

    Have you gone to moon or landed on moon? Have you found the proof of E=MC2 by yourself? You heard it from authorative sources, like teachers or much less authorative, some non-original books. So, please dont believe in Moon, Sun and that there are billions of galaxies in the world. 

  • Kamalsamria Samria04

    this is not jain dharm for which it is written.It is stated on basis of senses.where as jain dharm is beyond senses.

  • Pradeep m. jain

    dont look what jain peoples practice today or what science have still not proved,just think thirthanLets start with what  science says about this universe.science says regardless of big bang theory or other theories one thing is commen that this universe is made up of several atoms and molecules,these A &M’s undergo the process of change every second,also these A& M’s have many other factors by which this universe under go the process of change one thing is created and other is destoyed ,but actully nothing is being created nor destroyed only replacement is happening,these  A&M’s also have colour,odour,touch etc,,Modern sceience calls it MATTER,then comes ETHER,whose function is to provide medium of motion to matter,then there is SPACE whose funtion is to provide  every matter and ether to stay in a particuler space,then there is TIME  whose function is to bring change in matter’s form.so modern science claims that this universe is not created by any creator called god but it is just a combination of MATTER,ETHER,TIME AND SPACE.Now read jain tatwagyan and u will be astonished to read a more deeper and logical theory about this universe.In short I would like to mention jaina theory about this universe,jainism says that this universe is made up of 6 dravyas,their name is jiv(soul)ajiv(matter)dharmastikay& adharmastikaya(ether),Aakash(space )and kaal(time),There are many other logical answers which science have proved it for example jainism believes that WORDS are a matter form but  2-3 centuries ago it was believed that WORDS are not a matter,But with discovery of radio,telephone,gramaphone etc it have been proved that words are a matter form which can be copied,saved,transfered,recorded etc,my dear friend kers were omnipresent,their moksh was final yet for our benifit,for a peaceful world for a better future of coming generations they propogated the ultimate truth,the path of liberation,a path of co-existance with this whole ecosystem.thier aim was simple …to end our’s misery,suffering,pain ,sorrow.take it or leave it its your choice.but believe me there is no alternate to jainism,JAINISM IS AN ANCIENT SCIENCE STILL UNEXPLORED BY THIS MODEREN WORLD

  • Pradeep m. jain

    Lets start with what  science says about this universe.science says regardless of big bang theory or other theories one thing is commen that this universe is made up of several atoms and molecules,these A &M’s undergo the process of change every second,also these A& M’s have many other factors by which this universe under go the process of change one thing is created and other is destoyed ,but actully nothing is being created nor destroyed only replacement is happening,these  A&M’s also have colour,odour,touch etc,,Modern sceience calls it MATTER,then comes ETHER,whose function is to provide medium of motion to matter,then there is SPACE whose funtion is to provide  every matter and ether to stay in a particuler space,then there is TIME  whose function is to bring change in matter’s form.so modern science claims that this universe is not created by any creator called god but it is just a combination of MATTER,ETHER,TIME AND SPACE.Now read jain tatwagyan and u will be astonished to read a more deeper and logical theory about this universe.In short I would like to mention jaina theory about this universe,jainism says that this universe is made up of 6 dravyas,their name is jiv(soul)ajiv(matter)dharmastikay& adharmastikaya(ether),Aakash(space )and kaal(time),There are many other logical answers which science have proved it for example jainism believes that WORDS are a matter form but  2-3 centuries ago it was believed that WORDS are not a matter,But with discovery of radio,telephone,gramaphone etc it have been proved that words are a matter form which can be copied,saved,transfered,recorded etc,my dear friend dont look what jain peoples practice today or what science have still not proved,just think thirthankers were omnipresent,their moksh was final yet for our benifit,for a peaceful world for a better future of coming generations they propogated the ultimate truth,the path of liberation,a path of co-existance with this whole ecosystem.thier aim was simple …to end our’s misery,suffering,pain ,sorrow.take it or leave it its your choice.but believe me there is no alternate to jainism,JAINISM IS AN ANCIENT SCIENCE STILL UNEXPLORED BY THIS MODEREN WORLD

    • Pratpandey13

      Its like seeing elephants in the clouds, you forget to mention pudgal! Now as I said ain cosmology is more closer to less famous stedy state universe while the famous theories of universe are closer to hondu puranic cosmology! Lso according to jain the levels of univese is eternally maintained also the distinvtion of matter and soul or self this is not even closer to what scientist in majority say in fact they sound more like charvaka that from matter spirit arize! May be understanding of jainism is flawed so enlighten me

  • isha

    Feel sad for the person who has written the above article, i hope you would have got a true teacher or someone who could make you understand the meaning of Jainism. It is not a religion, it is a book which teaches us how to live our life as a human being.

    It is very true to follow Jainism in today’s era is very difficult and it results in frustration when a person does not understand basic of Jainism and start practicing it. I feel same has happened with you. You have already got replies below from many people so would request not to write against any religion. No religion teaches you bad things only we human being make it bad.

  • yobreakfast

    Ehm, geez, you sound like one of those militant atheists who thinks he needs scientific evidence for every piece he believes in, and when you cant prove it its bullshit. Maybe you should have a better look at science then and see that it is constantly changing, being disproven all the time. Yeah, you’re definitely not a Jain, since Jainism also teaches to be tolerant of beliefs that are different from yours. And I’m sorry, but all your thoughts are just that, be they scientific or not, there is no such thing as absolute evidence in science. If you think so, you should perhaps bother studying science. And then start throwing your beliefs about it out as if they are absolute truth, cause all scientists i know, and i know plenty, im a reseacher, will say you are gravely misled.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ashwin.bahulkar Ashwin Bahulkar

    Why is it that atheists like you are filled with negativity, and don’t give examples of modern science, there are plenty of things which modern science has yet not been able to prove, for example why certain diseases occur in certain indivivuals. Modern science still has a long way to go,who knows all of this might be proved one day. 
    And your last comment   “This is why I never had a desire for you to set me up with a “nice Jain girl.”   highlights your lack of maturity. How do you judge an individual even before meeting him by his religion? No wonder atheists like you never contribute anything positive to the world. 

  • Sanjana Jain

    Jainism Teaches Us To Be True,Do Charity,respect others,meditate,To Be Contented..

    Moreover,It Teaches Us To Respect Every Human Being.
    Jainism teaches us nonviolence and vegetarianism.
    It teaches us to speak the truth. It tells us that anger, pride,
    deception and greed are violence of self. Such behavior also leads to
    violence of others.
    Contemporary Jainism is a small but influential religious minority with as many as 6 million followers in India and growing immigrant communities in North America, Western Europe, the Far East, Australia and elsewhere. Jains have significantly influenced and contributed to ethical, political
    and economic spheres in India. Jains have an ancient tradition of
    scholarship and have the highest degree of literacy for a religious
    community in India. Jain libraries are the oldest in the country.

    I AM VERY PROUD TO BE A JAIN.

  • B_hiran

    Dear ur just a human being not a god or not a creator. Who are u to pass a judgment on any religion. If ur not comfortable with jainism dont follow. u mean to say that u know more than a god who knows the actual jainism. Even u dont know the ABCD of jainism  and writing negative things on jainism. ur  just a kid first go and learn the word RESPECT and its meaning. then u will come to know about all religion that what exactly all the god wants to pass on the message. like every human being has their own way of living all gods have their own way of teaching. First go and study the religion than talk. OK dear.

  • ThePatriotic

    “Make me Million” article….Kitne me bika salle…MC…BC…Bhadv*…

  • M Shah

    Hey listen.. who the hell you are! If you have no insight or no knowledge of the  things, you should keep your mouth shut. Seems you’re the biggest looser of the world. You cannot understand the things doesn’t mean it’s wrong. If you really wants to know Jainism, you should consult the correct people. 

    Hope you get well soon!!

    • Pratpandey13

      Who are those correct people?? My father is a sanskrit, pali and ‘prakrita’ scholar also he masters in ancient history is he correct person?

      • P.Shah

        DUDE YOUR FATHER MAY BE A PREAHER….THE CORRECT PEOPLE ARE THE PRACTIONERS!

        I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT JAIN PEOPLE.THEY JUST FOLLOW SUIT .TALK TO A MAHARAJ SAHEB.I BET HE WILL BE INCLINED TO PISS YOU OFF!!!

  • Pratpande13

    Hey I do appreciate you and yes I totally agree with you about karma, I’m a hindu being hindu is like being anything and being nothing. You can believe in karma like mimansak or you can not like chanakya or other ajivikas, you can believe in supreme god like shaiva or vaishnava or shakta or impersonal consiousness like advaita or be atheist like samkhya. Be atheist and still believe in deva or do not believe in deva even and be a poorva mimansak! I think jain cosmology is closer to steady state universe while big bang is like puranic cosmology even multiverse is there! So its easy to say karma, jinas are illrs of jain but no cognate is there in hindus, even veda is overlooked by bhakta and agama. Still dharnic religion are more philosophical than abrahmic which I’m proud of as an indian. They are non-persecuting and peacefull. But wait there’shindutva !!! And buddhist of south east asia are not tolerant!

  • P. shah

    it is good to see critism,it makes me happy to see someone actually thinking over this reli..what you lac is common sense.

    let me explain in the most simplest of ways.

    1] karma is nothing but your action in motion.

    if you have sex …you will have a baby!!!.

    if you eat beans …you will fart!!!

    2]we worship the greatness in Humans not worshipping Gods.

    not clear……let me help.

    the 24 noble titrthankrs did a noble deed in their life….irrespective of their persona we are abiding to their deeds.read their history homeboy!

    they achieved nirvana from the fact that their legacy would go on…they will be in our manuscripts for eternity.

    3]every thing that has a begining has an end……ups and down go in cycle…!!

    you are a fool .look at yourself.you took nearly 20 yers to reach full maturity in life….you grow first and then you will slowly ,get diseased or be affected by aging and die.

    nature is proof of it.

    4]pichle janam ke karam……

    now here is the catch.

    the meaning is deep……..it is not your previous birth that we are talking about……it is the act of your previous [pichle]janam[signifying a progency]

    if your dad is Amitabh ,then you are bound to have a good life.If he has worked hard in his life the greatest benefitter would be you.if every one follows it the world will be merrier!!!

    understood baccha!

    5]levels of heaven and hell

    we dont believe in God.We too have a scientific or per say practical approach.

    you can be millionaire ,billionaire,zillionaire,….

    you can be a looser,loner or an arsehole…

    Got it!!!

    6]pure veg diet….

    we were aimed at surviving with minimal damage to a living creature.
    now the mistake we do is that we are suppose to eat a part of a plant not the entire thing without uprooting it thus letting it live.

    eating tubers makes us uproot the entire plant.thats why we dont eat onions garlic etc.we drink milk without causing harm to a living soul….or anything that has the potential to be one![eggs]

    7]relegious chants!!!

    when Jainism was established the only way by which people could be governed was by fear.if you do this …that will happen….!if you do that …..this will happen!!!

    honestly people were fools who wont accept good advice for their own,so sages or the smart people devised a wonderful way of making peolple believe something through folK tails,mantras,beliefs.

    now if the folktails,mantras,beliefs were to be conseidered to be html language and people as computers …..the mannerism in which they function will be totally governed BY the so called html language.

    the sadhus or sages were a bunch of wise people who knew better,had some good amount of common sense which they applied so that people can lead a peaceful life!

    YOU MAY HAVE EYES BUT YOU LAC VISION!!!!

    • Mahaveer

      They will do all bad and once in a year they fall on other’s feet, Only their jain relatives and jain friends only and ask forgiveness. This is licence for them to do all papas (bad things to usurp wealth) for the next one year. They lack fidelity.They do not remember people who have done good and do not hestate to reply the same people with bad. Even if close relative die the go and burn the body and afternoon itself they will open the shop and sit in the gall for collection. Only money, money, money

  • Mahaveer

    Jains re mad after money making. they pay low wage foe other caste people. they drink their blood. They are very stingy. My professor used to say “ayiram thali aruthu oru thali publicka kattacheivan” They cheat innocent people. They don’t go for job. They prefer business so that they can chet people and become rich. They treat employees as slaves. Once you get money from them then you are adimai for them. They don’t care for proprity in life. Any how make money. They also very stingy. They do not really do good for people. Even the school they run do not have basic facilities.

  • Mahaveer

     They will do all bad and once in a year they fall on other’s feet, Only
    their jain relatives and jain friends only and ask forgiveness. This is license for them to do all papas (bad things to usurp wealth) for the
    next one year. They lack fidelity.They do not remember people who have
    done good and do not hesitate to reply the same people with bad. Even if
    close relative die the go and burn the body and afternoon itself they
    will open the shop and sit in the gall for collection. Only money,
    money, money

  • Mahaveer

    Jains mostly keep pawn shops.  Like malayaly opening tea shop, jains open pawn shop. They lend money to innocent villagers. in tamilnadu you can find these Jain marwadi beggar money lenders in all villages. Here people are not educated. So they are able to cheat. But in karnataka and kerala these jains cannot open pawn shops. they earn money easily without ant difficulty. Blood suckers

  • Poop

    Please open yourself

  • Darpanchheda4

    May god bless you with correct wisdom & knowledge… Half-knowledge is a dangerous thing!!!

  • Uzxcve

    Jainism came from buddhism. Buddha did not accept idol worship. But Jainism advocated worship of sadhus who attained the state of nirvana. But jains today worship all hindu gods particularly tirupathi Balaji and Lakshmi as they are mad after material wealth. Jainism preaches Live and let Live, But which jain is following that

  • Daniel

    The basic crux of all religions is love to all living things and preserving & nurturing nature and environment.  There are abundant examples in vedas regarding this. But people who practise these religions forget the basic principle of love and engage themselves in amassing wealth forgetting that their life span is short. selfishness is the main reason for people flouting moral and ethical values.
    We find many north Indians in tamilnadu. They have engaged in business and money lending. Al most the all the major business like steel, electrical, chemicals, stationery, textiles, silver & Gold, are in their hands. The money economy are in their hands.

  • Anant

    You Son of a bitch ,sucker,asshole,pathetic dick hole,you motherfucker
    who are you? bhenchod
    eggs are not good bcuz it will become chick you fool
    underground vegdie. are not good good bcuz it can’t get sunlight that’s why small micro-organism born there,there are 24 tirthankars name them with respect & there are all proves are there sucker 
    jain child learn there names soo’
    what is wrong with that!!!!!!
    even the child learn bad language is good uhhh? chutiye
    Madahrchod 
    Agar aage se ese article likhe na tune 
    toh maa kasam tu apna address de vahin gaad dunga tujhe chutiye!!!!!!!!!
    MIND IT

  • Siddhijain49

    Jainism is true n the oldest relign.. You’v givn d name of bullshit to the relign.. I wud lyk to say.. The things which u hv said is a complete bullshit.. U r no one to speak lyk ds abt jainism and our principles.. V believe in truth and follow the reality.. Atleast v neva worship those gods who have 10heads n 8 hands.. Haha which is impossible.. People worships hanuman as a monkey and ganesh jii as an elephant.. Kaali maa and shera wali maa needs blood of people.. Yuck.. God cn neva b lyk ds.. Krishna, ram and shiva are all same.. I dun knw where they all are nw n whr they have came on this earth?? Bow can ds b posibl these 8 avatars are god of hinduism and dint took birth from mothers womb..can anybody answer mee who was born from devki’s womb inside the jail…?? Think 10times before pointing out towards jainism.. Dun wry people you have to pay in your next birth for what have you did in this birth..

    • MJ

      I am agree with you Siddhi.
      Apart from what you have decribed above I would like to add some other information:
      Hanuman was Kamdev and Kaamdev cant have face like Monkey. He was from Vaaner Vansh and her mother lived in Hanu Nagri due to which he was named as Hanuman. His mother named as Anjana who gave him birth in jungle and stay there with her female friend. His father named as Pavan Raja. And he is not the Pavan dev. He attained Moksha from that Bhav itself. Ram also attained Moksha from that Bhav itself. Ram(Balbhadra), Lakshman(Narayan), Raavan(Pratinarayan) in Jain Ramayan. Hanuman was brother in law of Raavan and helped him in many war against Raavan before met with Ram. JainRule:- Pratinarayan always killed by Narayan with the help of Balbhadra. Currently Lakshman is in Narak and Sita is Dev in Swarg. Raavan is also in Narak and will become Tirthankra in next 4th kaal of Utsarpani Kaal because he was very religious and follow SolahKaran Bhavna due to which Tirthankara Prakrati Karm Bandh ho gaya.. Lakshman will also become Tirthankar but I am not sure whether he will become from Videh Kshetra or from Bharat Kshetra. Sita will become Gandhar in Raavan’s Samosharan. One more thing The people who are having body structure like Animal Face and rest body as a man ..these kind of people are found in the KuBhogBhumi. This all basics you can get if you read TatwarthSutra. What kind of people are found at which place as what they did in the past. Balram (Balbhadra) have already attained Moksha and Krishna(Narayana) is currently in the Narak and will attain moksha in the future after becoming Tirthankara. Krishna was the cousin Brother of Neminath Bhagwan(Tirthankara) and got Kshayopsham Samyagdarshan in the samosharan of Neminath Bhagwan and his Tirthankara Prakrati Bandh also started from there itself. But just before his death i.e in AntarMuhurat(less than 48 minutes)he became Mithatvi jeev. As he reached to Narak in Antarmuhurat again he achieved samyagdarshan and again his Tirthankara Prakrati Bandh started. In next 4th kaal ie Uttsarpani kaal(Currently This is pancham 5th Hundasarpani Kaal)he will become Tirthankara and will attain Moksha following through all the process required in that i.e. he has to follow/go the “KShayik Shreni” upstairs(Aatman/Jeev Vishuddhi/pureness of soul going increases and increases ) until all the 4 Ghatiya (Gyanavarniya, Darshanavarniya, Mohiniye and Antaraya) and 4 Aghatiya karm(AAyu, Naam. Gotra Vedniya) i.e. total 148 Karm Prakrati vanished and destroyed.

      Jai Jinendra

  • Siddhijain49

    First of all.. Jains are not hindus and as per archaelogy true facts jainsim existed before hinduism. Jainism was earlier known as sharaman culture. You must be fully aware of hindu ramayan and hindu mahabharat but dude have you ever heard about jain ramayan and jain mahabharat. Lord ram and shri krishna were jain heroes fabricated in avatar theory by vedic fanatics.

  • Sammy126

    I grew up as a Jain and can rightly say I am proud. The original thread makes it seem as though if you don’t follow the principles then you’re not a jain and that Jain has no respect for other religions. I’m a modern Jain, I believe that God didn’t create the universe, however God exists. I believe in karma and no. I am a vegetarian. However, I drink alcohol. This does not mean I don’t follow Jain or have little disrespect. 
    >>>.. Jainism encourages an 8-day-long (or worse), unhealthy fasting during the holy time of the year. During the fast, you may only consume water that’s been pre-boiled.
    Also, I don’t fast simply because my parents didn’t want me to. However, actually fasting is good for you and as a scientist I can say safely say that fasting is very good for the brain. No, you don’t have take part in it and I’ve never been told I should fast by my grandparents and other people that are more traditional. It’s an ancient religion just like other religions. But to actually.

    >>>It’s true — You rarely see criticism of Jainism. But if we’re concerned with spreading the truth instead of religious beliefs, we shouldn’t stay silent. So what’s wrong with Jainism?
    A lot. I know because I grew up in the faith and my parents still practice it.I am respectful of other religions and having studied a little about the most common religions I have seen no reason how Jainism does not respect other religions or how other religions disrespect Jain. But to actually say a lot is wrong with Jainism is wrong. That my friend is disrespectful. Obviously, no one has thought you how to respect other faiths. It’s ok if you don’t follow it or don’t believe in it but do not go around posting such comments. That is wrong. 

    >>>While the “non-violence” aspect is admirable, Jains still believe in plenty of bullshit:
    Jains believe in a never-ending, cyclical time cycle, with phases of “rising” and “falling” happiness. Each phase lasts several thousands of years. This is all fiction, of course.Jains believe that they can accumulate and shed karma and this impacts their future lives (reincarnation). There’s no evidence of this.Jains support being free of materialism — not because it can be destructive in and of itself, but because it’ll allow you to more easily break free from the cycle of reincarnation. They’re doing a good thing for the wrong reason.Jains don’t believe in a god, per se, but they do believe in supernatural beings who have broken free of the reincarnation cycle to attain Nirvana. In fact, there are 24 beings who have done that… and we know their names. We memorized their names as children. Though there’s no evidence any of them ever “attained Nirvana.”
    There is no evidence on any of the stories from any religious texts, it’s all speculative so don’t go throwing around words like “bullshit”.  There is a lot of things unanswered in the universe, and there is no way for it all to be proven. Some of it is just to give us a peace of mind and some may be to give u a “reason” as to why we exist. I feel sorry for you because you seem incredibly lost. 
    >>>The Jain rules regarding a vegetarian diet seem like they’re made up on the spot. Eggs are bad, but milk is ok. Potatoes and other food from the ground are bad, but there are exceptions depending on the day. Alcohol is forbidden, but young Jains go to bars all the time. The rules make hypocrisy rampant… but almost unavoidable.
    The rules to a vegetarian diet are actually very straight forward. Perhaps you weren’t taught correctly by your parents. Eggs aren’t ok because Jains believe that eggs are produced cruelty to chickens and the egg is killing to potential chick as Jains practice non-violence eggs are considered forbidden foods. Potatoes are bad because trying to obtain potatoes may harm the insects underground. Whereas milk is considered ok because violence is not used to get milk. Alcohol is bad in Jain. You can’t argue this because young Jains drink you moron. Older Jains don’t drink. You can say the same thing to thousands of young people that are catholics and yet have slept with their boyfriends. Times have changed. However, there are a lot of Jains and catholics, and other people from other religion that practice the faith as it was intended and there are other people that have adapted their beliefs to fit with their modern lifestyles. This isn’t a reason to smack down on the religion, take your argument to the person that is being a hypocrite rather than coming down on the religion. 

    >>>Demi-gods, nirvana, “next lifetime,” karma? Those beliefs sound like something out of Scientology. But Jains take them very seriously.

    Then you have been taught by the wrong people. I’ve been taught Jain teachings yet I’ve also questioned a lot of things and have been told to keep an open mind. Like all children and like all religion, you’re supposed to question it and you’re supposed to learn and read before deciding what you believe in. Yes, perhaps karma doesn’t exist but you don’t know that for sure, why criticize something that others believe in. You’re a lost boy. I hope you find peace. 

  • John2find

    @madhu:disqus
    madhu wrote: “u shud become mahatma.m recently married into a jain family where all sorts of ill practises r done…piss bt dnt throw water..it kills “jeev”…foolish!!dnt eat potato bt eat ginger(coz dey themselves like it) nd many more list is endless.
    but thet can hurt humans,hurt smbdys sentiments shamelessley(m a punjabi hundu and evryday i hear u r a punjabi u dnt knw dis u dnt knw dat!!ur vishnu is no god!!dey all r myths,paapi!!!)
    what religion tells u to praise ur ownself bt disrespect others??
    even in ur book(dnt knw the name)which u read during those 8 eight days,they say”if i praised shiv,shivratri,vijay dashmi,durga in short hindu gods,please forgive)
    no other religion says disrespect other religion.

    other den one point of ahimnsa,jainisn ,rather people following it are stupid and hypocrytes and fanatics!! ”

    I can’t find her comment present here any more but I will like to reply her.

    1. Why underground veggies /roots are prohibited in Jainism ?
    Ans: The main principle of Jainism is ahimsa. Roots are prohibited becasue eating a root kills a plant. A plant to survive equal likely like you yourself. You keep a plant in a dark room with a opeing the Plant will start growing towards the bent so that it can survive. This shows it has a will to survive. We have no rights to deny somebody will to survive, and if we think ourslef that bigger than their might be someone mighter than you who will use the same logic upon you and take your life.
    Don’t do to others which you don’t like for yourself.
    Plant is a living being who do want to survive , and by eating its roots you kill the plant.
    Its smae way taking your life your will to survive for his benefit.

    So eating potato eating onion or eating Ginger is prohibited as per strict definition of Jainsim.
    So someone who is eating Potatao eating onion or Ginger is doing a violence and hence is committing a sin as per jainsim.
    If your mother-in-law reason you that Ginger is OK but not potato, than she is wrong, her own version of Jianism is not Jainism. Both are prohibited as eating a root kills a plant hence violence.

    Jain however can eat grains like wheat and leaves, as grains a have a very peculiar property:

    The life time of Wheat is five months, just like a normal dog leaves 7-8 years, a man avg life span is 70 years, same way wheats (or grain in genearl) have life time of 5 months. after this they automatically dies even if you give them water or enough fertilizers. the plant will die as it has complted its life time.

    So grain dies on its own you do’t kill and eat it, grains are just dead body parts of plant which died on its won. Therefore eating grain involve no form of violence.

    Hoevwer modern agriculture methods involve killing of pest for the sake of crops which jainism prohibits , as no one has the rights in this world to prohibits someone else wish to survive , same way you don’t want someone to take your life.
    People practice that a another topics, but jaisnim prohibits killing of any life form for the sake of one pleasure.
    For survival (survival and pleasure  are 2 different things) no one is prohibited, lion do’t accumulate sins for killing a dear as lion cannot eat grass and therefore killing is neccesary for lion to survive, however a man can survive even without killing any being by eating grains (cultivated by natural means) so if he eats something that results in killing some life form for sake of his pleasure (and not survival) its a sin.
    As the same way you want to survive , other to want too.
    So one must commit the list amount of violence as possible , therefore if breating air is neccesary for survival do it, but smoking (pleasurable) is not a survival techniques instead it kills not only others but yourslef and hence a sin.

    Jain Piss but throwing the water is sin.
    That was the best point I liked the most and made me laugh for hours.

    Yes one must piss by sitting (and in actual that’s how Jian monks piss) so that violence can be minimum and hecne karmic bond can be minimized.

    2. You are punjabi and your mother in law scolds you that don’t know about jainism, I am really sorry for that.(insipte of the fact that     I or jainism in no way is resposible for this behaviour).
    Your mother in law is scolding you just because she is not a  good jain. A good jain is the person who is not only non-violant by action but by thoughts as well. Its well documneted in Jian text.
    Your mother-in-law fighst with you just becasue she is a bad jain and not because jainism teaches so.

    3. Your mother in law points to Vishnu , SHiva with disrespect, agian the same explantion, your mother in law is nota good jian that why he is making such action that is hurting you. a Jian must not do any such action that hurts any body not even an ant, so hurting a man is very great sin.
    Your mother in law is bad not because she is good jains, she is a bad person becasue she is bad Jain.

    A Good Jain as defined by Mahavir is the one who don’t hurts anybody feeling, called as non-violence of thoughts.

    AS even Jians do not belive in Gods (Visnu allah or jesus) but telling or educatiing others oif urts them a jain must not tell such things.

    Thwe fualt is not in Janism, the fault is on it follower not following what jainism teaches non-violenct to every being.

    I still know I can’t help you as each has to help himself.

    • madhu

      hey
      dnt knw y my msg isnt displayed.but i liked ur logics(first time in 2 years i found some jaini giving logics,mostly thngs r illogical)

      i  read ur following comment about chamachari(8 days fast)
      u say its fast way of shedding karma.is it possible if i murder smone nd den observe fasts fr one year or two years my murder would be forgiven???

      dude,fasting doesnt impress god,nor it can shed ur karma.it ll b wid u till u die,nd u hav u pay fr ur deeds.
      only thng god sees is ur true devotion..nd u need nt fast fr dat.meditating is ok,bt u gt to b gud human.

      jaininsm says dere is no god..bt hw can u frget proofs of ram brigde towards lanka or reamins of dwarka.

      m nt against ny religion bt dere is only one supreme power,cal it mahaveera,vishnu or jesus.

      nd stupid customs doesnt take u near to him..infact u going much far frm reality nd god

      • John2find

         Here is my reply ,read it completely as you asked the questions so have to listne the answers:

        >>>>”dnt know y my msg isnt displayed.but i liked ur logics(first time in 2 years i found some jaini giving logics,mostly thngs r illogical)”

        The logic is not mine , indeed its the logic of Jainism which u liked.

        According to Jains, the ultimate principle should always be logical and no principle can be devoid of logic or reason.Thus, the Jain texts contain

        deliberative exhortations on every subject, whether they are constructive or obstructive, inferential or analytical, enlightening or destructive

        Read this lines are documented in wikipedia : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anekantavada#cite_ref-Duli_8-0

        Mahavira told people that water contain micro-organism long back 2500 years old.
        hadn’t you read in your scince book even today that micro organism leaves in water , you have not belived it even now as you don’t see them with naked

        eye

        Science dicovered the micororganism first time in year 1632.
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microorganism#History_of_microorganisms.27_discovery

        Without a divine vision of Mahavira it would not have ever been possible for him to guess that micororganism do live in water. (Mahavira was not God. God

        = the individual who has created this world= such thing don’t exist)

        Logic thats the most improtant, you boil and drink water so that no more Microorganism keep evolving in that water and you can minimize the violence in

        your desire to survive.

        As a jain you are free to explore anything, beliving in any fact without understanding is called superstition and jain texts condemn Superstition as a

        sin. You can read this in the same books where they write that praying to vishnu and mahesh for “material gain ” will add sins.
        Loving God and praying God for material Gain is difffernet stuff. One is called Faith  (love towards God, e.g. the way you love your mother for nothing

        in exhange is not sin) and other is called superstition (praying to God for material Gain, e.g. Hey Lord Vishnu please pass me in exam).
        And superstition is prohibited.

        The following next line may sound bad to you, but I will like to make you ware of things.
        Its superstition that make hinduism to include acts like this:
        1. Sati
        2. Caste system
        3. Sacrifice of animal and even humans in ancient wolrd.

        and do read about ashmedha on wikipedia >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashvamedha

        Its says that in ashmedha yagya(the same conducted by Shri Ram when he had a fight with Luv and Kush) the wife of the king (queen) has to mimic

        copulation(sex) with the dead horse after its sacrifice.

        I know that will appear that I am rude, But this is not me this waht vedas teaches and are well documented their.

        Sati, caste and sacrifice has no logics and hence are superstitions.

        Every relgion on planet has one or the other bad stuff, islma promotes violence and women exploitation.
        Christian don’t practice it altough but their books Bibel do teaches the same.

        Jain text in now way are complete either , as the book themsleves say this it don’t have complete knowldege.
        But Jainism (the true Jainism , not the one the veriosn of your mother in law uses) give atmost important to logics.
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anekantavada#cite_ref-Duli_8-0

        >>>> “i  read ur following comment about chamachari(8 days fast)
        u say its fast way of shedding karma.is it possible if i murder smone nd den observe fasts fr one year or two years my murder would be forgiven???

        dude,fasting doesnt impress god,nor it can shed ur karma.it ll b wid u till u die,nd u hav u pay fr ur deeds.
        only thng god sees is ur true devotion..nd u need nt fast fr dat.meditating is ok,bt u gt to b gud human.”

        I have already answered this but will do it again more detailed manner:

        Jainism (the true jainism and not the one which your or most jain preaches as per their own convinience creating their own versions) do fast not to

        impress God , but to practice and contolr their senses.

        A person who is controlled by his senses commits stupidity and the one who controll his sense is wise.
        A person commit crime like Rape as he is unable to control his senses.

        Non attachment called as aparigrah , means absolute non attachment , even non attached to onself. This help a person to be perfeclty unbias.
        A person who is baised can nver give fair decions.
        In order to be fair one has to even leave slef bias or love toward oneslef.

        This is the firts aim of Fast, so that we start praticing or loosing care of ourself.

        For discussing second we need to decide whether karma exist or not.
        If karma don’t exist and God do exist (as you are a theist), then why do God is biased in making some one to born rich and someone to born poor.
        Why without rebirth or previous evaluation God feed everyone of us in different diffculties. A child is born blind , why do god do such act without

        karma. Its because the resultant of previous karma that make someone to be born as  in rich family and someone in poor family.

        For explaining why we require fast >>
        Example. You have taken a loan form bank , you will be given two options to pay it back.
        either pay it in 2 intallmanets(which will be big and not easy to pay)
        or either pay it in long term returns.But overall amount of time it is going to take will be proportionally increased.

        same applies to karma, which are your debts of this birth and previous birth shed after by the fast.
        Karma is your account balance you need to make it zero to get free fomr cylce of birth and death.

        (But I strictly do not believe in this explanations, as fast may be again a misconception that we might have gained, fasting which occurs unintentionally

        bcz of being ascetic wil benefit rather than doing it forcefully.)

        When one follows ascetic life (actaully as per concept of Jainism) , which means absolute non attachment he no more commits new karma as he do no more

        desires and then the remaining karma start hiiting him back.

        No one can escape from karma not even mahavira himself was able to escape out of his karma. He was born as Dog and he was born in one birth as a poor

        perosn.
        But due to constantaly shedding his karma in each brith he was able to reduce his karma to zero and hecne no bond of taking birth and death.

        For existnce of God the single problem
        read wikipedia:

            Arguments against God’s existence
            Argument from free will
            Argument from inconsistent revelations
            Argument from nonbelief
            Argument from poor design
            Atheist’s Wager
            Fate of the unlearned
            God of the gaps
            Incompatible-properties argument
            Oblivion
            Omnipotence paradox
            Problem of evil
            Problem of Hell
            Russell’s teapot
            Theological noncognitivism
            Ultimate Boeing 747 gambit

        I want to anwer you more but this post has already GOne big.
        But if you will ask me I will try an asnwer you many of the logics of Jainism which appear to you illogical.

      • John2find

         
        According to Jains, the ultimate principle should always be logical and no principle can be devoid of logic or reason.Thus, the Jain texts contain deliberative exhortations on every subject, whether they are constructive or obstructive, inferential or analytical, enlightening or destructive

        Read this lines are documented in wikipedia : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anekantavada#cite_ref-Duli_8-0

        Mahavira told people that water contain micro-organism long back 2500 years old.
        hadn’t you read in your scince book even today that micro organism leaves in water , you have not belived it even now as you don’t see them with naked eye

        Science dicovered the micororganism first time in year 1632.
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microorganism#History_of_microorganisms.27_discovery

        Without a divine vision of Mahavira it would not have ever been possible for him to guess that micororganism do live in water. (Mahavira was not God. God = the individual who has created this world= such thing don’t exist)

        Logic thats the most improtant, you boil and drink water so that no more Microorganism keep evolving in that water and you can minimize the violence in your desire to survive.

        As a jain you are free to explore anything, beliving in any fact without understanding is called superstition and jain texts condemn Superstition as a sin. You can read this in the same books where they write that praying to vishnu and mahesh for “material gain ” will add sins.
        Loving God and praying God for material Gain is difffernet stuff. One is called Faith  (love towards God, e.g. the way you love your mother for nothing in exhange is not sin) and other is called superstition (praying to God for material Gain, e.g. Hey Lord Vishnu please pass me in exam).
        And superstition is prohibited.

        The following next line may sound bad to you, but I will like to make you ware of things.
        Its superstition that make hinduism to include acts like this:
        1. Sati
        2. Caste system
        3. Sacrifice of animal and even humans in ancient wolrd.

        and do read about ashmedha on wikipedia >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashvamedha

        Its says that in ashmedha yagya(the same conducted by Shri Ram when he had a fight with Luv and Kush) the wife of the king (queen) has to mimic copulation(sex) with the dead horse after its sacrifice.

        I know that will appear that I am rude, But this is not me this waht vedas teaches and are well documented their.

        Sati, caste and sacrifice has no logics and hence are superstitions.

        Every relgion on planet has one or the other bad stuff, islma promotes violence and women exploitation.
        Christian don’t practice it altough but their books Bibel do teaches the same.

        Jain text in now way are complete either , as the book themsleves say this it don’t have complete knowldege.
        But Jainism (the true Jainism , not the one the veriosn of your mother in law uses) give atmost important to logics.
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anekantavada#cite_ref-Duli_8-0

        • Balachandar

          I have spent 3 hours reading all the comments of this thread, and I find your to be patiently answering all, even though I don’t agree with most of them.

          I wanted to as a doubt about this:

          “Without a divine vision of Mahavira it would not have ever been possible for him to guess that micororganism do live in water. (Mahavira was not God. God = the individual who has created this world= such thing don’t exist)”

          Firstly, you mention in various places that you [and Jains] are atheists. But you seems to contradict it in several places, including the above sentence.

          Without divine intervention it wouldn’t have been possible for him to guess that microorganisms do live in water.
          So you say there is a divine power.

          God = the individual who has created this world = such a thing doesn’t exist.
          This is straight contradiction, you say Mahavira is not god, god is the one who created this world, but he doesn’t exist.

          What do you say about this? I would like to hear from you.

          • john2find

            Their are 2 words :
            Omnipotent and Omniscience .

            Omnipotent is having unlimited power.
            Omniscience is having infinite knowledge.

            God is the one who creates this world and must be Omnipotent and Omniscience both. God as per these can do any thing , he can make impossible things possible.

            Where as Mahavira on the other hand was human with only having infinite bliss/knowledge. He was just omniscient and NOT omnipotent.
            He would have known every law every truth as he had infinite bliss(the divine knowledge= keval gyaan). (that is why I presented Mahavira’s claim that water had tiny life form that cannot be seen with naked eyes)
            But as he is not omnipotent, he cannot make sun to rise from west.
            He will simply say you that this cannot be done within seconds.
            He cannot make impossible possible.
            He will not be able to make 1=2 (which an omnipotent God can do), but will tell you simply that this is not possible in one of the reference.

            A god as per definition should be able to make sun rise from west in moments.

            Therefore Mahavira is never attributed to be creator of the world in any jain text as he is not omnipotent and hence he is not God.

            The world as per Jainism is self created and is eternal (with no creator)
            As Jainism denies existence of creator, its an atheist (Nastika) belief.

            You say you disagree with my explanations given prior to this one, please let me
            know what is the disagreement so that If I am having a wrong beliefs I
            can correct myself (Superstition is a sin as per Jainism)
            I will love to hear from you if my explanations given previously or now in any of the text contradicts?

  • Bimal

    jai jinendra to all my brothers and sisters who believe in jain philosophy.
    try to understand basic element of jainism.we observe strict food habits , not because it is rational or irrational , not because it is logical or illogical we practice because it is lord mahavir’s order. we have to believe in the same way we believe doctor’s instructions after we get discharge from hospital being recovered from fatal diseases. we never argue with doctor we obey his instructions as narrated by him then why not in religious practice?

  • A Young Jain

    To whomever wrote this article,
    Go to a Terapanth Digamber Jain, and talk to them.
    You need to understand this religion with an open mind, but not as you have, with a stubborn one.
    Yes, my religion is very strict, but you need to understand what is portrayed through the religion. And, many forms of this religion have formed, but logic can show you which ones are right and which ones, not so much.
    And we do claim to have no gods, because this religion focuses on bettering the soul, not worshipping a material god, so they will give us whatever we ask for. 
    Again, please consider what you wrote, because you need to think openly, and connect today’s way of thinking to what has been written in millions of writings.

  • A Young Jain

    And let me tell you, you seem never to understand these so called mantras your parents taught you.
    These mantras do speak of amazing saints and other people, but these are people we wish to be like, not get material goods from. Your argument is seemingly invalid.

  • guest

    I appreciated John’s arguments  they are spot on. AS a young Jain myself, your article was in of itself “bullshit” as you claim. FIrst, remember that Jainism was the first religion, yes the first, to calim that plants and animals are living. This is the 5th century we’re speaking about. While I’m not here to prove the Karma Theory, because it is a theory indeed, just because it sounds outlandish does not make it so. As John says, the new Jainism  I consider, especially in the USA, is devoid of this cultural influence and focus’ on conduct and non-violence as a central tenet. And this claim that young Jains got to bars, sure we do. But you’re forgetting the fact that few people of faith follow through every tenet. 
    Moreover, we as Jains still recognize drinking as sin or ‘bad karma’ but we do it just any normal human beings becuase we are in fact human beings. 
    In face, if you had done any real studying or reading on Jainism, it is possibly the most scientific religions of all. From the relativity theory to the idea of plant life, Jainism has a lot under it belt. 
    However, do not mark this enthusiasm for Jainism as blind faith. I simply believe in what I do because I have seen demonstrated proof.
    And since you’re this all proving athesit, prove to me why rich people are rich? Prove to me in fact that God does not exist. While I certainly believe that God doesn’t exist, I love having a skeptic or atheist such as yourselves prove this to me. Given that in the realm of skeptics, anything is possible, is is just as much of a stretch to claim atheism as it is to claim God exists. 
    This is an old thread I know, but nonetheless, it is frustrating to see such misconception ABOUT YOUR OWN RELIGION. I mean c’mon, you were born in a Jain household, the least you could do is read on it and make a judgement based on what you read and understand and not your parents or some orthodox people. I’d revisit this issue if I were you my friend.

    • guest

      claim* 5th century BCE*

  • Pratpandey13

    My dear,
    i’m not a jain, neither a buddhist nor hindu. I’m born brahmin, communist biased towards dharmic religion, more biased towards brahmin tradition even more biased towards lokayat-mimamsa! Why i explained these is very obvious so that you can call me ‘names’.
    I’ll raise topic of Time-Cycle.
    now,
    let us suppose the universe can only have two interactive fundamental particles and single dymansion. on this linear universe there is two arrangement possible, either particles are individual or joined after that the arrangement will repeat. if it has three interacting fundamental particles, then after 3!! arrangement they will repeat.
    Big-bang suggests that we have finite (too large) particles, and expanding universe ( which inferred Big-bang) also infers that universe is infinite. In infinite universe the arrangement of finite particles could not remain different for long, they will start repeating. We in mathematics call in Multiverse and laymen call in parallel universe and all.
    we took her the three dymansion of space and no dymansion of time (you may got an idea where i’m heading to), there are many dymansion of space and time, infact some group of people believe that time itself is some kind of space dymansion but that is diff issue. so again if time too is considered and here arrangement of a universe at time t1 and arrangement of it at time t1+1 , the same pattern will repeat again (and again).
    So if we see in Big-picture (a Very big-picture) Time-cycle seems not that fictitious!! :)

  • Michael Woods

    All I can say,is who gives a damn?It’s superstitious but just because they practice non-violence and do unhealthy fast,that’s no reason to be a dick.
    I don’t like Jainism.Some bits of it are ridiculous.But if you aren’t willing to associate yourself with Jains,just because they’re “superstitious” then buddy,you are no different than a Fundamentalist Christian.

  • Doshi

    you asshole i have seen it bloody bastard….

  • AJ

    “Three blind people were made to touch an elephant first time in their lives, and were asked to describe it. First person was able to touched only the legs of the elephant. Second one only felt the trunk. And third one only the tusks. Their description was-

    1st person: An elephant is like a tree trunk. Hard, rigid and rough.

    2nd person: An elephant is like a snake. Soft, slimy and fleshy.

    3rd person: An elephant is like a smooth round-marble rod. Soapy, even and rock-hard.

    And then all three started to fight, defending their definition and observations. And the beauty is none of them were wrong!!”

    We all are blind people. And without sight we’ll always get it wrong. So first we should work upon getting vision and sight, then debate.

    Well, if you already think you have sight and described everything correctly, then there is no point you should be here. Because no matter how much you try, we all are blind and will never agree with your observation on how elephant looks like because all our observations are different!. And none of us will believe until we get our own sight.

    -AJ

  • Jimi k

    You’re uneducated in Jainism and it’s sad.

  • Janki

    Your knowledge of Jainism is very superficial.
    The biggest evidence of karma is this: if you think it is not ok to steal even if no one is watching, it is because of a rule you believe in. we call it karma. you can call it whatever you want.
    Because if you dont really believe in anything then it is stupid not to steal when u know you will not get caught. If you know you can get away with it, why should you not do something wrong if it is in your favour. It would be illogical to say it is wrong. It is benefitting you so logically you should do it. If it is harming someone else then logically it is his problem, not yours.

  • Former Jain

    There is no tangible evidence to prove Jain ideologies (i was a jain), if you find any i would love to know.

  • sally

    I don’t understand how you can just say their belief in karma and time cycles are untrue because there is no evidence for them. It’s a religion, and most religions don’t evidence to back up every belief, but is more about a leap of faith. If you tell a Jain the idea of reincarnation and karma are wrong because there is no evidence, they will probably not take you seriously. I don’t see how the idea of reincarnation is any more preposterous then an eternal after life in heaven. Also, you seem to think jainism contradicts itself a lot, when it’s really the people who practice jainism who are contradictory. I feel most people who practice any religion are rather contradictory in some ways, including me.

  • Alec☮

    Wow, you are quite an ignorant person. No human being can have absolute certainty as to the nature of consciousness. Considering our current model of the brain having no possible way to fully explain consciousness, it is quite possible that consciousness is a fundamental force we have yet to understand, and that our bodies are merely antennas to consciousness, rather than creating it. If this is true, reincarnation is not so far-fetched. Karma is also a highly spiritual and admirable belief that preaches that our actions have consequences onto our mental well-being as well the how others perceive and treat us. Considering that it has been observed that emotions can be contagious in a way, shedding light into the connected nature of all life, it is quite possible that having unruly thought will cause others to treat you worse. And in my personal experience, It is also quite evident that those who treat the world and others with disrespect and hate are going to be more troubled than those that are of peace. This could easily be called karma. So brother, stop shedding your hate to the rest of us. You do not have the answers to life, neither do I, neither does anyone. But does that mean we are not allowed to make guesses as to the nature of the universe based on our personal experiences, absolutely not.

  • Ibeleiveinme

    Big Bang wasnt the start peeps only a new addition to the multivers. Google it… Only recently scientists are accepting it…

    • Ibeleiveinme

      Im not religious but find them very interesting…

    • John2find

      If this is pointed to me than, I too never said that Big is a definite truth.
      I have proposed a relation with the already known facts.

      Scientist are accepting it , because it is backed with concrete sets of observation evidences:
      Hubble’s law and the expansion of space
      Cosmic microwave background radiation
      Abundance of primordial elements
      Galactic evolution and distribution theory
      Primordial gas clouds

      and many more.

      But have no definite theoretical equation or proof, like 2+2=4.

      Its just a proposal, with no know theory yet to explain it.

      But it ain’t any mumbo-jumbo proposal as clear fomr the budget of 7.5
      billion euros spent on Large Hadron collider, to study the events of Big
      bang(assuming it to be true). So its not a weak theory.

      Now I don’t know your view, but as Just because it big bang can explain
      the time cycle phenomena of Jainism, “The nuthead athiest “(I am an
      athiest too as I don’t belive in God, but not a Military atheist
      disregarding every belief that has a word religion in it) are now
      counter arguing saying big bang is just a proposal.

      When they need to fight Theist with their Creationist theory, Big bang
      become a concrete proof and when they have to tackle “Atheist Jains”,
      they will argue Big bang simply as a proposal with no evidence to
      support.

      They (Military Athiest) must rethink that they have indeed forming same
      cult theist belief, that what all they know is only the absolute truth
      and all others are explanations are nothing but lie.

  • understanding MAhaveer

    Hi all,

    i really feel sad to Know that Jains as well as Non-jains are not able to understand what Tirthankar Mahaveer has said.Just follow the a simple principle of Non violence.According to Tirthankar Mahaveer Non violence is the supreme religion(Ahimsa Parmo Dharm).Now the problem arises when we associate Non-violence with various Tangible and Intangible things.It is very vast.To make things simple the principle of Non violence,just follow the concept of Total acceptability of all conditions to yourself.Accept everything that is coming your way,it will lead you to path of Non violence.Try it and you will be amazed to see how it works.Accept whatever comes to your way and you will be on your path of non-violence

  • Prashant

    Hi All Jains and non Jains..

    I joined this blog with a purpose. I have tried to find out the answers for few questions but helpless every time.

    The extreme practice of jainism is to not marrying(brahamachrya)

    Question-1: Jains talked about non violence, does this means to be non violent only in terms of physical harm? Jainism believes in mankind and human welfare thats why they do not harm anyone, ok, means they are not selfish.

    But if someone loves them(jains), if they (jains) means a lot in someones life.

    If someones life, family depends on them(jains), If some non jain person ready to become a jain just to respect their beliefs and practices, if someone wants to marry jain, want to stay whole life with them, if someone is no one without them.

    Then,
    SHOULD they(jains) go for a practice of not marrying whole life(Brahamacharya) OR they should marry that person?

    This is a case when they (jains) themselves love a lot that person
    If they still follow practice of Brahamacharya then they contradict themselves
    as they are ruining someones emotions,they are killing them not physically but internally, they are giving pain which is far more painful than killing physically.

    No mankind, in this case they seems to be a selfish for their own practices.

    How would this world grow if all thinks like jains and remains bachelor whole life.
    World will end one day. There is no religion in World which is against LOVE.

    There are not problems due to LOVE in this world, problems are due to RELIGIONS.

    RELIGIONS apart us, RELIGIONS made us different.

    LOVE joins us, LOVE is peace, LOVE is pure, LOVE is natural. In short LOVE has no RELIGION.

    Please help me!!

    What should that Guy (Non Jain, which agreed by heart to become Jain) do?
    AND
    What should that Girl (Perfect Jain, which want to follow the practice of Brahamacharya) do?

    When both of them are in LOVE with each other..
    Waiting for your valuable inputs and suggestions…

    Question-2: In the next discussion

    • john2find

      Hi Prashant,

      I will try and
      answer you, but will like to bring it your notice that this is not
      right forum to discuss it.
      This Passage is for criticizing jainsim
      , so either one can side with Jainism or one can support it. But this
      is not place to discuss or clear doubts.
      I will although try and
      answer you , but its advisable to clear your doubts at other
      place.
      You can email me , if you want to discuss it with me :
      john2find@gmail.com
      And
      if you find my explanations worth, you can take it else can come back
      here and criticize it.

      Your doubts have been reformatted by me
      in below questions, and have tried giving my explanations:

      1.Jains talked about non violence, does
      this means to be non violent only in terms of physical harm?

      Ans:
      Well Jainism means absolute non-violence, which means not even
      non-violent thoughts should be practiced by a person. A Jain (and
      ideal jain) must be forgiving.
      As per Mahavira, a desire you
      imagines is a desire you performed.
      So if you wish to kill
      someone , is equivalent to you have killed someone.
      Its just some
      barrier that is stopping you from killing that person (for eg say
      fear of jail & Police), had those barriers been removed you
      would have certainly killed that person.
      So intentions are same
      and hence are equivalent (not equal).
      So Jain should practice
      absolute non-violence, non-violent action and non-violent thoughts
      both.

      2. Jainism emphasize on celibacy and is celibacy
      justified when a two person love each other ?
      What about the
      person’s (lets call it Romeo) feelings if he is in love with a
      person who want to practice celibacy (lets call it Nun)? And isn’t it
      bad that Nun will break heart of the Romeo by practicing celibacy,
      even when Nun mean a lot to Romeo’s life ? Isn’t it a contradiction
      to having a non-violent thoughts ?

      Ans: What exactly is love
      is hard to explain , but these what are essential points about
      love:
      I. Love is pure .
      II. Love is something of giving and
      expecting no return. Love is condition less.
      III. Love is with the
      person not with bad and good quality of someone.
      This are some of
      the points, I can think about love.

      Now lets analyze:
      If
      you love someone and think that your love is the one defined above
      and please re-evaluate your love considering below points:

      1.If you get married to the person
      you love (and you are straight) and on the first night you find that
      he/she is Eunuch ? (=Transgender, no bias or hate against them , just
      a scenario to explain my point to other sexes)

      What will be
      your reaction ? Will you still love him or her the same way ?
      Make
      a note : LOVE is condition less.
      Once love is done its done
      forever.

      I think an honest answer will say: I will kick
      his/her butt for telling me a lie. You don’t know she/he was a liar
      (read my next point)
      You have failed in point II (told above) of
      love, your love is conditioned.

      2. Love is not done with good
      or bad of a person, its done with the person, as habits can be
      changed , but not the person. A person with good habits can have bad
      habits later and a person with bad habits can have good habits later,
      so love should be done with a person rather than with the
      personality.

      So based on this definition even if that person
      was liar about his/ her sexuality, love should be done with him/her
      not with her sexes. So you failed in Point III (told above) of
      love.

      If you think on logically and answer yourself honestly,
      love you are referring between a girl and a boy is strong sexual
      attraction and not love.
      This attraction is so intense that one is
      ready to give his/her life for sex.
      This is a know trait, and is
      even seen among many animal.
      For e.g. octopus, octopus are
      cannibal. Its quite often that female octopus eats Male octopus soon
      after they have sex, but sill male octopus risk his life for love
      making. There are various animals that too risk their life to just
      have sex.

      3. Ok You might say I will have his/her sex change
      and will remain happy. But what will you do if he/she get this
      disease:
      Notice: Extreme Graphical , viewer’s description is
      advised:
      http://www.documentingreality.com/forum/f149/neurofibromatosis-tumours-100480/

      You
      may say, I will still love him/her the same (?). For one year for two
      year, but with time certainly you will feel a great decline in
      enthusiasm of love. Answer yourself honestly on this.
      Even if you
      have justified that sex is part of love making, then in that case if
      your partner is even of correct sexes, you will still not do sex with
      him or her if they have neurofibromatosis disease after you marry
      them.

      If I am correct and you must know that your love is not
      condition less and hence not pure love.
      Its just a sexual
      attraction.

      Science too have defined love as resultant of
      sexual attraction, with the sole purpose to reproduce and carry the
      genes to next generations. Their is no thing as the love as per
      science.

      You may retaliate to this, but just rethink above
      points and justify it to yourself :
      Is your love Pure, is it
      Condition less, is it with the person rather than with the
      personality.

      Science call it basic property of living organism
      to reproduce and Jainism call it Moh and Maya.
      As it all are lie
      and are not-absolute (condition less). You want that person , thats
      driving that passion , that eagerness within you. Its not a love its
      intention of reproduction.

      Their are various scenario where
      your love will fail and I can keep telling , which are not all sex
      related.
      The only love which will pass all the condition will be
      is the one done by a mother to her child.
      That’s condition less,
      that’s pure and that’s with the person not with personality.

      3.
      Are Jain Selfish ? Don’t they think about their family , their loved
      once , how painful it will be for them to see him suffering due to
      celibacy and being ascetic ?

      Ans: Did you parent asked you ,
      that do you want to be born ?
      Do anyone asked your permission and
      you said yes that want to be part of this world , full of sorrows ?

      If no one asked your permission and
      your agreement, no one holds right to own your life. You are
      independent to live your life, as it was forced on you.
      You are
      morally oblique to your parents not because they have given you birth
      ,its because they have brought to you up.
      Birds fly their nest
      living their parents behind .
      No one holds anyone’s
      responsibility, that’s a truth.
      You may say I hold responsibility
      of my wife as I have undertaken it, but what will you do if you die
      .
      She has to accept it, she has to be independent that’s the
      absolute truth.
      We all have to work for ourselves to achieve
      moksha, no one can work for you and reduce your karma to zero. Its
      only you and only you who can reduce your own karma and be free from
      the cycle of death and birth and free form all sufferings.
      You may
      want to accept it or not.

      Parents or loved once want you to
      marry just cause they want to see you happy their way , so that they
      can be happy in turn.
      If you want to be happy for ever you have to
      stop desiring. Their is nothing in this world that can satisfy
      desire.
      Eating World’s most tasty ice-cream doesn’t mean , that
      you will never demand any more anything in future, you will desire
      something else.

      Love the one you are saying is sexual
      attraction, it can bring temporary peace to those who are successful
      in it, but pain ,rage and war ,for those who are not
      successful.
      A true Dharma (the law) is a reality, which was meant
      to be so.

      4.How would this world grow if all thinks like jains
      and remains bachelor whole life.
      World will end one day. There is
      no religion in World which is against LOVE.

      Ans: If their so no God, as Jainism
      is atheist belief and science too, who are you to worry that world
      exist or not.
      Once you are dead, its all gone its none of your
      worry.
      Its same like why to worry about your money
      (materialistic world) when once you are dead you are going to be
      mixed in the same soil, even if you a re a millionaire or a poor.
      You
      aim is to get out of cycle of birth and death and that’s what should
      matter to you.
      When their is no God, this world holds no
      meaning.
      The only meaning is the one you attach it to it. Science
      and Jainism both don’t believe in God.
      And both believe this world
      holds no morale meaning ,but is held by laws.
      If you throw a apple
      it will come down and if you desire something bad, you will certainly
      get a pay back.
      As per me both Science and Jainism are same
      (Dharma = true nature of thing) , but some people may not like my
      thought.

      If you have further question please mail me, this is
      not right forum to discuss.

      • anonymous

        My few questions if you can answer for this illogical beliefs of Jainism:

        1. You must believe in Reincarnation? Another life after death..
        Soul is eternal, and every human, animal, insect all living organisms in this world, have spirit or soul which never dies and will transfered/ passed from one body to another.
        According to Jain Soul is like energy which is not created not destroyed, it changes from one form to another or you cansay one body to another..Right??
        So, my question is why the population is growing day by day?
        Total world population is more than 7 billion and increasing like a second hand in a clock. From where does these new souls are coming from?
        Not only humans, insects, birds and their various species are growing..
        If you add 1 spoon curd to a litre of milk then in 18 hours millions of yeast (bacteria) will take birth, and non violent people like Jains eat that delicious curd joyfully.
        my question is from where these new souls are coming from? Is that like 1 soul will be divided into many souls, but again this contradicts your Jainism Concepts.

        2. Celibacy is good thing to do, in Jainism.

        Rishabhdev was married to two girls named- Sunanda and Sumangala. Prince Rishabh led a happy married life. In due course
        Sumangala gave birth to Bharat, Brahmi and ninety eight other
        sons. Sunanda gave birth to Bahubali and Sundari.

        You must be knowing who the Rishabhdev maharaj was..
        If no, then allow me to tell you that he is the First Tirthankar.(Ford-maker) who helps in achieving liberation and enlightenment as an “Arihant” by destroying their soul-constraining (ghati) karmas,
        became a role-model and leader for those seeking spiritual guidance.
        Tirthankaras revitalize Jain Society by organisation of fourfold Jain Order consisting of monks, nuns, laymen and laywomen.

        My question is, jain leader (who have 2 wives and 100 children) whom you worship. And jainism is about Celibacy.
        Do you have answer for this?

        First give me these answers then I will keep post many of such illogical practices which many of religions are following and Jainism is in the front line for doing this.
        These things only can mislead innocent people. Life is about to live.
        Why to worry about the life after death, which is nothing but hypothetical belief.
        Please stop doing this. This would take the world nowhere.

        • john2find

          Sorry for late reply, was away from internet for some time.

          Your Allegation 1: I have broke it into various parts

          Part 1: Why population is growing day by day, as soul only changes one body to another as per jainism. And you also asserted that Not only humans, insects, birds and their various other species are growing in number.

          Answer: I guess u have never heard of term extinction. Please introduce yourself to it.
          Here is a list of animals that have got extinct or are on verge of extinction (which means their population is declining),” which we know”:
          Please do read them and have a look with your own eye (its a very looooooooooong list ) and imagine how many number of this individual species have already been died, compare this with increasing human population or the species that are growing in numbers :

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_endangered_species_in_North_America
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_endangered_species_in_India
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critically_Endangered
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:IUCN_Red_List_critically_endangered_species
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IUCN_Red_List_endangered_animal_species
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_IUCN_Red_List_Critically_Endangered_species

          This is a few list of Animals that are on verge of extinction.
          Their is a loooooooong list of Plant too. And their is also a list which we have never known and have already extincted.

          If something is dis-balanced, it effect entire ecology proportionally, this can be explained to you by a 2nd grade student .
          Every component of this nature Mass, Energy,Time & space follow one basic law: Law of conservation.
          If soul exist, than why will it follow a distinct law.

          If you believe we are consciousness then explain me what is the chemical formula of Consciousness, if you don’t know , then your argument and my argument hold same strength in terms of consciousness. I explain it by a no-proof soul and in contrast you explian it by a no-proof chemical. With me having a upperhand as my concept align with basic rule that if something is rising than the other thing must fall.

          Part2: You gave Example of curd that within minutes or hours millions of bacteria can grow. and you have a question from where these new souls are coming from?
          Answer: Agreed bacteria lives in curd , but do that mean no one is dieing (animal or microbes or plants or humans) at those very seconds.
          If yes , then you are correct. And if you agree that, some one(may be microbes) are dieing each and every second, than some is taking birth each and every second is justified.
          If every law in this universe follow conservation, than why life (which we don’t understand what it is) will not follow law of conservation ?

          Part3: Is that like 1 soul will be divided into many souls, but again this contradicts your Jainism Concepts.
          Answer: No way same soul is divided into many. had they been part of one soul , they all would have same behavior , but they don’t. That’s shows they are new born.
          Birds and reptile give egg Plants pollinate, Mammals give birth to offspring directly, then why can’t microbes have different way (cell division) of birth ?
          Its bacterial way of reproduction, so no new soul is created, its some other soul which is taking birth like wise.
          No new souls , juts new form.

          Part4: Jain practitioners enjoy eating curd and that’s why Jainism is wrong.
          Answer: You are obviously confused with difference between the followers & doctrine. Doctrine is not what followers follow. Jainism prohibits eating curd.
          Its practitioner which fail to follow it and not failure of Jainism.
          Its Same like case of tobacco has warning that it causes cancer, in which case you do not accuses the Doctor who found that Tobacco causes cancer, but you blame the practitioner.
          Why don’t you do same in case of jainism ?

          Further to add, you cannot precisely say that life exist definitely on earth and no where else on universe.
          So even if we blew each other with atomic bombs and cease mother earth capacity to support life here on earth (even microbes died, this assumption is hypothetical), life will always exist somewhere in this infinite universe under the same universal law of Conservation.

          Your allegation 2: Is celibacy justified and morally correct. If Yes why did Jainism Thithankar do marriages and do produce children.

          Answer: I have said it many times but will repeat, when their is no God(as jainism is an athiest belief) then what is right and what is wrong. A right and wrong can be judged against a reference. When their is no God (a judge), then nothing is right and nothing is wrong. Its same way in space their is no big and small as its referential. In space nothing can be said is up and nothing can be said down, as we don’t have an absolute reference.
          Same is the case of atheist belief (jainism), nothing can be said to be wrong and nothing can be said to be right.
          But law are internal, if you throw a ball away from earth (with no greater than escape velocity) it will fall back on earth. That’s a law, which says that if you do this then you get that. No moral judging involved in ball going up or down.
          Same way Jainism treat your desire, if you desire this Jainism says you get proportional reaction. Nothing is said to be correct and nothing is said to be wrong.

          So I will not say celibacy is Good or bad, as we lack reference.

          Thithankara were normal humans when they were born (thats why they were born from human womb) and were not Gods, they are just in their last birth when they will shed all their karma and free from cycle of Birth and death.
          They are not absolute reference when they are not ascetic, as an absolute refrence will be the one who has never done a sin or is finally free from sin (once they become thithankara)
          You are comparing thithnkaras life period when he was sinner and not a thithankar.
          Once he was a thithankar he was a perfect ascetic.
          He had to pay for those sins (created due to all desires bondage he has done in current and previous life cycle), have you read that ?

          If you want to compare whether celibacy contradicts with jainism concepts, you must compare it with Rishaba when he was ascetic and not when he was married to have an absolute scale of reference. He was sinner when he was married and he has to pay back those karma. Neither he was Keval gyani then , its once he become ascetic, and shed all his karma, he then become keval gyani and hence had absolute knowledge of dharma.
          Its only when he was a perfect ascetic and only then he became Thithnakara.

          Celibacy is neither wrong nor good, but is necessary to free be free of desire. As sexual desire is a desire itself. Any desire bound your soul to stay and enjoy that.
          Desires make karma, which bond and fool your soul to not achieve its true state of rest: Moksha.

          Every thing in this universe wanted to come to rest (even earth , study science or ask me I will explain), free of Bonds free of force. TO come to zero state.

          And to make your soul at rest, you must stop desiring and celibacy is a part of stop desiring, no moral plans no virginity savings, just a expansion of Aparigrah.
          Its other religion that relate it to moral plans, not jainism.

          Asseration 3: Life is about to live. Why to worry about the life after death, which is nothing but hypothetical belief.
          Please stop doing this. This would take the world nowhere.

          Answer: Yes agreed this life is to live, that’s why Jain don’t do suicide.

          “Life aftre death is not be worried” >> neither jainsim focus on it , its nuns and monks who emphasize on it .
          Jainism only emphasize on “Live and let Live”. (live your life can you read that , but do allow others to live their life as well)

          You said me please stop doing this as it will take world no where.

          Please do take note :Nothing and anything will take this world no where as their is no GOD and hence no one to judge that whether this world has/had accomplished its task.

        • john2find

          Hi Anonymous,
          you there ?

          Waiting eagerly to hear your next set of questions ?

      • Prashant

        Hey john..are you there??
        Please reply the asked Questions by Anonymous..

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Zaxtor-Znort/1137952332 Zaxtor Znort

    Jainism is by far one of the best religion in the world.
    They are pacifists, respect ALL life.

    I’m no pacifist type but I respect them completely.
    I’m no Jain nor Buddhism nor anything. I have my own personal faith but I respect Jainism and Buddhism etc completely.

    These religion respect all life aside just humans unlikely Christianity only cares about human and is soo anthropocentric / human supremacist.

    I have a personal page about Jainism. Got much data as possible about Jainism.
    http://zaxtor.net/Jainism.htm

  • funkyj

    I think Sam Harris point is that we’d have a lot less beheadings, honor killings and suicide bombings if we converted all the muslims to jainism. Some versions of bullshit are more dangerous than others. Sam Harris’s point is “if we have to have bullshit, wouldn’t it be nice to have more harmless bullshit and less dangerous bullshit”?

  • http://www.facebook.com/amit.jain.14661261 Amit Jain

    Hi Brother,

    I came across your above post while searching the web on Jainism and could not stop reading till i completed the same.

    Firstly i would like to congratulate you on asking some very basic and honest questions on the faith you were born in. It makes you eligible for becoming a true Jain by further brooding over your questions and finding answers to the same. The process is called Shradhaan (analytical contemplation over a subject instead of blindly accepting the same).

    Please permit me to answer a few of the queries you raised to help you evaluate over the same again.

    1- query on never ending cyclical time cycles called “Kala-Chakara”
    The is the point where any rational and scientific minded Jain stumbles as its hard to understand it. Its because the scientific belief of Theory of Big-Bang and ever expanding universe tends to disapprove of the Jain theory of Kala-Chakra

    Fortunately this is not the case.

    The theory of Big-Bang, though one of the most popular scientific belief is still not proven. Its just a contemplation. So unless proven, Jain’s do not need to worry and continue to stick to their belief that this universe is eternal and was never created and nor will it ever cease to exist.

    2. Rules on vegetarian diet. – why eggs are bad and milk is Ok and certain vegetation like potatoes are bad.
    The above query stems from the western concept of vegetarian diet. They tend to believe that all animal products are non-vegetarian. This is not the definition of non-vegetarian in Jainism.

    As per Jain’s non-vegetarian is anything that results in death of a living creature. Thus all type of meat and fish products are considered non-vegetarian. Since milk does not lead to death of the life stock used to extract it, thus its considered vegetarian. And since eggs has the potential of giving birth to living creatures, it’s considered non-vegetarian. (when this rule of not eating egg was made, they were not industrially produced as they are done today).

    This also explains why potatoes and other vegetation which forms the root of a plant are considered bad as it results in up-rooting of the plant – a living creature. Thus Jain theology equates such vegetation to meat.

    3. encouragement of fasting.
    It’s a misconception that Jain’s encourage fasting. Its a Tapa’s (austerity) performed to achieve deeper insight of scriptures and in itself, has no virtue of its own.

    I would like to quote the below Sutra (verse) of Jina to proof the same:-

    “The One Who Fasts For The Sake Of Attaining Knowledge Through Study, Has Been Referred to As Tapasvi (one practicing penance) in the Agam’s (Holy Scriptures). Fasting Without Resorting to Study Amounts Only to Starving”.
    Sutra # 446, Saman Suttam

    To the best of my understanding, Jina, the founder of Jainism Himself never vowed to perform long fasts. (please correct me if i am wrong). He use to just take a vow of fulfillment of a certain condition before accepting food. If that condition was fulfilled, He use to accept food to eat, or otherwise, fasted that day. Next day, He would again go to beg for alms, but would accept food only if the condition He vowed for is fulfilled, or otherwise, fast again. Thus the long fasts He undertook were not a result of any vow He took to perform them, but a result of vow of fulfillment of conditions He has set before accepting food. These are two completely different things.

    Your other queries like no-belief in God, belief in liberated souls, accumulation and shedding of Karmas, belief in Demi-Gods and multiple levels of heavens and hells are not possible to answer as science still needs to evolve to a level were it becomes possible to be able to scientifically find an answer to them. However it does not mean that if science has not been able to discover them, then they does not exist.

    Say for example of Jain belief of plants being a living creature. Jain’s always advocated the same but science discovered it only recently. Plants did not became living creatures after it was scientifically proven. They lived and breathed and felt emotions like us earlier too.

    Same way, your above queries does not become unscientific, if science still needs discover them. You may question them, but please do not disapprove them as unreasonable till they are scientifically proven to be so.

    Finally, i would like to say that the world of scientific labs and the chanting of prayers in Jainism are not colliding as you claim. In fact they are parallel. Jainism is the most scientific religion of the world as none of its belief’s have been disapproved till date. It is for this reason that he greatest scientist which our planet has ever seen – Albert Einstein once expressed wish to be born in India as a Jain.

    I welcome your comments.
    Love
    Amit
    email – amitritu@me.com

  • krish

    jain guru don’t put cloths on their body… now how can a jain person let his mother or sister to see a man naked during worship of these gurus… this religion seriously is a sin in itself and women in jainism always disrespected and neglected because for mokash or nirvana you have to become a man.

    • john2find

      Krish the issue never lies in clothing , it lies in the mind of the spectator.
      If by accident when u see ur moms legs, by accident , do that drive sexual desire in you , do that ashames you ?
      If you are helping ur daughter to bath and of-course she will be naked (to young say 5 yr old) do you feel ashamed ?

      The defect lies in the yes and mind of spectator, not in the person what he is wearing.

      From ur names I Guess u are hindu and a thiest person (one who believes in god).
      If God wants us to wear cloths, why are we born with Cloths itself, why are children born naked ?
      Why do God send them naked ?

      Ashamed of naked body means you are being ashamed of being human.

      A jian monk lives his cloth , as he has no further attachments with any material stuff.
      He has no attachmnets with his own body any more.
      He don’t care whether its hot or cold, he don’t care what other think as he has left all moh maya behind.

      He don’t bother what other think, he has left all this thinking when he took his Vow of being saadhu.

      We animal every thing in this universe are born naked.
      The problem is not in his nakedness the problem is in ur vision.
      That u are seeing his naked body , u must see his sacrifice how he survive cold winter and how he survive hot summer without cloths.
      And still smile and helping others to direct them to correct path.

      Woman can’t touch , neither Gurus touch woman.
      If your vision is correct , you will not see his naked body next time , instead his sacrifice his dedication to achieve moksha.

      Further to add hindu temples are filled with nude paintings and nude sculptures with , deities like Shiva vishnu all performing sex.
      You must visit , Ajanat ellora caves and see.

      Aren’t you Hindu ancestor thought then how womnan will worhip then.
      You God shiva itslef is worshipped in form of a LInga (Penis) ??

      and u are saying us nudity is bad, u certainly have dual standards.

      I in no way trying to put you down to rasie my point.
      In jianism nudity is mandatory to get aboev all moh and Maya. In order to be a perefect ascetic (aparigrah) you need to leave all bothers all moh maya behind and forget what any one thinks , you need to get rid of all materiel possessions so u don’t fall in their traps (moh).

  • Kd

    Dude seriously half knowledge leads to a disaster of thoughts and perceptions, you just proved it. Before putting any blog on the subject at least put some efforts to understand it. Grow up

  • D Jain

    Absolutely, the things that you mentioned sound absurd. But Jains do not believe those things. Infact, by definition, being a Jain, you ‘use your own brains’. Ahinsa and other rules are guidelines that you are advised to follow, but there is no compulsion – however use your own brain and you will indeed come to the same conclusions.

    That said, those absurd sounding theories have good practical/ functional advantages. That is a smart move to preach those things to laymen, so that atleast the actions are correct. And yes, when you start seeing that the reasons are absurd, you should go ahead and find the real reasons. That will help you. Isn’t this a good path? :)

  • Anonymous

    First of all I agree with John2find, how can you ever be sure of how the world started or ended? Second, in Jainism we are actually not meant to have milk either but we consider eating eggs worse than eating milk as in the egg a life is growing whereas milk is something that you get from the cow not an actual living being so I don’t see where this comment of ‘hypocrisy’ comes from. Then the thing about shedding karma, in order to be free from the cycle of birth and death you have to realise who you really are and this incorporates a lot of good qualities, which includes not being materialistic. Furthermore, a lot of people in texts have attained moksh (nirvana) through other ways, for example our first Tirthankar’s – Shri Rushabhdev Bhagwan, mother was extremely sad that her son had become a saint but when she saw him and the state of his happiness and everyone else’s she realised that whatever she had thought was actually wrong and her thoughts got to such a level where she realised who she truly was and attained nirvan. Also, the 8-day fast is only encouraged if you really want to do it from the heart, and there is a reason for this too- the reason is that through doing it you get more time to spend in devotion with god (if you think about it a lot of your day is spent eating) and also realise that you are the soul and not the body, which is the main goal of Jainism… About the supernatural beliefs that depends on how you take it, I agree, that there is no way to prove it but I do believe in them. Also, I don’t agree with what you said about religious leaders leading Young Jains away from the truth, that may be true of some but not all. Lastly, science keeps on changing, for example no one believed in the existence of micro-organisms, however it was always mentioned in Jainism that they do exist and thus there are certain things which are done to try to reduce the harm inflicted on them which, maybe, you disagree with. I don’t think any religion should be criticised. Sure, if the followers of the religion may be implicating it in the wrong way but you should never criticise a religion itself.

  • Anonymous

    whoops sorry, I actually read all of what John2 find said but what I wanted to take from it is that how the universe started can never be a fact, only a theory.

  • one lung

    You need to do a lot more research, listen more and frankly grow up. I like your reasoning, ‘this is all fiction of course’. Needs work on the the convincing argument.

  • SUNIL

    SORRY TO SAY A PERSON WITH EXTREMELY LIMITED AND WRONG KNOWLEDGE IS WRITING ABOUT JAINISM. EVERYONE PLEASE READ JAIN SCRIPTURES AND NOT WHAT IS BEING PRACTICED BY MANY JAINS AROUND YOU. EVERYTHING HAS SCIENTIFIC ANSWERS. THIS IS NOT A RELIGION BUT PURE SCIENCE & LOGIC. OUR IGNORANCE AND LIMITED KNOWLEDGE IS OUR PROBLEM.

  • sfa

    Your sources are from wikipedia. Not very well researched. This article seems very desperate. I don’t know what the point of picking on a harmless (yes, Jains won’t even say a bad word to you or kill a fly) and rather small philosophical religion is.

  • ankan

    hey i get ur point and any progressive person would but what if tht jain girl feels the same about jainism like you man!!!! it could b a win-win situation for the families and you both plus, you can CHANGE thigs for jains as change can be made by being the part of the system.
    cheers

  • TED

    I just want to know that is it mention anywhere in Jainism that you can;t get married to a person other than Jain….???? coz i wanna marry a Jain girl but her parent’s are quite orthodox !!!

    • john2find

      Hey Hi TED,

      As per real Jainism their is no such code.
      Any one (amy be of any gender or caste or race) can marry any one, as long as they are happy and no violence is adopted.
      (Their may be chances , girl’s parent may beat you, but they should not as per jainism. They are not following Jianism if they beat you even if they are jain. Jian has strict emphasis on non-violence. So if they beat you the flaut is in them that they failed to follow jainism , and not in the religion itslef)

      But as Jianism is terrible fucked by Hinduism, their had been lot of changes in Jainism. For example, today jains believe that some kind of creator entity exist . but Jainism is an athiest concept.

      So you can marry that girl as per Jainism.
      But I again repeat, its not necessary girl’s parent may be ready to follow religion as, they fear more of defame than sins they create.

      • mini

        the problem is that being a jain u think that u r superior to all other beings.what do u mean by saying

        “But as Jianism is terrible fucked by Hinduism, their had been lot of changes in Jainism. For example, today jains believe that some kind of creator entity exist . but Jainism is an athiest concept.”

        dont u know that all religion decent from hinduism itself.all initial tirthankanksrs hail from hindu parents before turning to jainism.one of the dreams which mother of rishabh dev had was a bout laxli(A HINDU GODDESS)which is considered auspicious.

        the religion which spread hatred for other religion can never be gud.or i shud say all religions spread just one message.non voilence nd be compassionate towards other fellow beings.u guys are just other fanatics who think they are superior.u just dnt seem to undrstnd what ur tirthankars wanted to preach.

        following dharam doesnt make you a gud human being.u hav to inculcate those thoughts in ur speech nd thoughts as well.abusing other religions makes u equally bad as any other guy on this earth acc to u is.
        Various details of previous births of Rishabha is mentioned in the ancient Jain scriptures. Some of these are Dhanna, the caravan leader, Jivanand, a doctor and Vajranabh, a king.which proves there is a soul nd keeps on travelling,jainies perform fasts to gain moksha,which means freedon from reincarnation.

        your knowledge is very poor my frend.i think u shud give more time to become a better human being rather then riting stupid stuff here nd abusing other religion.

        @ted:no religion tells u whome to marry nd whome not.but our stupid indian society is such that we cannot think anything other then OUR COMMUNITY IS THE BEST!!m a non jain married a jain guy.ask me what all i have to go through everyday in the name of so called dharam!!these people dont undrstnd emotions.they just know how to make other person feel stupid coz dey think dey r the best jst because dey dont eat nonveg!!!!!!

        • john2find

          So u are probably same stereotypical-inter-caste-married girl, who posted some time ago , who cannot cope with her mother in law , and in turn you take your frustration out here and accuses jainism for it.

          Lady, “your” [and just your, don't extend it to all ladies of the world "don't do this , its not how we do it" [which in correct context means the same thing what they told ]

          But you make your interpretations, likewise, due insecurity and your stereotypical orthodox nature as >>
          ” Do not do nothing , your mother has not taught you anything you idiot & you certainly has same behavior as what expected form you ”

          This how you interpret things, which now here intentioned.
          Thats the cause of your misery.

          Now,
          If I use your own logics , than your words in your last comments, concludes that you too consider urself superior as cleared from your comments:
          “dont u know that all religion decent from hinduism itself”
          What do you mean all religions ??

          Not all religions, neither Jainism, nor Buddhism, nor Islam, nor Christianity..
          Here is the long list of religions which has nothing to do with Hindusim :

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religions_and_spiritual_traditions

          But I know that was not your means, but you were stereotyped against my explanation due to your previous bad experience with your family, so I have to explain you in your own stereotypical manner.
          Take your time , re-read my comments if you feel angry , re-evaluate “are you feeling angry because they are truth , as truth is the one that hurts the most”.
          Your perception is certainly stereotyped.

          2.Jainism has not been derived form Hinduism in any way.

          Proofs:
          1. Jainism is an atheist belief, whereas as per Hinduism world has 3 gods > Bhrama, vishnu and mahesh.
          Together they are known as the creator , saviour, & destroyer oif universe.

          But an atheist concept is that don’t believe in any such entity.

          2. The foundation books of Hindusim has description of Adinatha, the first thithankar of Jainism.
          This shows that Adinath was aa alive person prior to when Vedas were written, therefore only he is mention in the book.

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rishabha_%28Jain_tirthankar%29#Literary_Sources

          This again reinforce the idea that as Adinath was existing before the vedas, that means Jainism dates back older than hinduism.

          3. Vedic practice mainly consist of animal sacrifice, yagyas and havanas, which is strictly prohibited by Jainism. As this causes violence.

          BUt as you see jains practicing it today , that shows how Hinduism has fucked up [here fucked up means , Typically used in reference to being physically,
          mentally, morally/ asthetically, performance-wise, or even theoretically
          damaged in some way. ] Jianism.

          This is cause of most of Jains are converts , which make their own versions of jainism that eases them out.

          4. Hindusim include rituals like Caste system, sati pratha, animal sacrifice, and even Man-sacrifice, untouchability and many more evils.

          [ Evils like ashwmedha >> in which the chief queen has to perform sex with dead horse.
          This is Hindusim, read it here >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashvamedha
          which are in now way part Jianism.

          So in no way could have Jainism decent from Hinduism.
          As jain's main belief are completely opposite to hindusim.

          5. Jainsim in fact has been corrupted ,as many jain think thithankar are the creators of the world, but the real jainsim is not as such.

          You need to come out of your stereotypical nature, thats the cause of your misery.
          Try making correct conclusion , rather than adding your own beliefs and your own masala, [which I am sure you might not be putting in balance in jain foods too, that you serve to your husband and Motherinlaw].

          That will help you, if you think their is something worng in Jianism plesae feel free to come back and ask me I am ready to ecplain you that their is nothing worng in jainism.
          But certainly Hindusim is wrong ,as it include folliwung practices well documneted in their relgious books:

          Caste system, Sati pratha, animal sacrifice, Human sacrifice, untouchability , ashwamedha (in which a lady has to do sex wiht dead horse), purushmedha (human sacrifice), non-vegetarianism, belief in creator (which sicne has proven don’t exist).

          I am sure even to this you will take as negative, due to your stereo typical nature.

          This might help you :
          Science proves god don’t exits , do that mean scientist mean Hindus are idiots.
          They certainly are ,if they keep following practicing same thing which science has proven false.

        • john2find

          So u are probably same stereotypical-inter-caste-married girl, who
          posted some time ago , who cannot cope with her mother in law , and
          in turn you take your frustration out here and accuses jainism for
          it.

          Lady, “your” [and just your, don't extend it to
          all ladies of the world "don't do this , its not how we do it"
          [which in correct context means the same thing what they told ]

          But
          you make your interpretations, likewise, due insecurity and your
          stereotypical orthodox nature as >>
          ” Do not do
          nothing , your mother has not taught you anything you idiot & you
          certainly has same behavior as what expected form you ”

          This
          how you interpret things, which now here intentioned.
          Thats the
          cause of your misery.

          Now,
          If I use your own logics , than
          your words in your last comments, concludes that you too consider
          urself superior as cleared from your comments:
          “dont u know
          that all religion decent from hinduism itself”
          What do you
          mean all religions ??

          Not all religions, neither
          Jainism, nor Buddhism, nor Islam, nor Christianity..
          Here is the
          long list of religions which has nothing to do with Hindusim
          :

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religions_and_spiritual_traditions

          But
          I know that was not your means, but you were stereotyped against my
          explanation due to your previous bad experience with your family, so
          I have to explain you in your own stereotypical manner.
          Take your
          time , re-read my comments if you feel angry , re-evaluate “are
          you feeling angry because they are truth , as truth is the one that
          hurts the most”.
          Your perception is certainly
          stereotyped.

          2.Jainism has not been derived form Hinduism in
          any way.

          Proofs:
          1. Jainism is an atheist belief, whereas
          as per Hinduism world has 3 gods > Bhrama, vishnu and
          mahesh.
          Together they are known as the creator , saviour, &
          destroyer oif universe.

          But an atheist concept is that don’t
          believe in any such entity.

          2. The foundation books of
          Hindusim has description of Adinatha, the first thithankar of
          Jainism.
          This shows that Adinath was aa alive person prior to when
          Vedas were written, therefore only he is mention in the
          book.

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rishabha_%28Jain_tirthankar%29#Literary_Sources

          This
          again reinforce the idea that as Adinath was existing before the
          vedas, that means Jainism dates back older than hinduism.

          3.
          Vedic practice mainly consist of animal sacrifice, yagyas and
          havanas, which is strictly prohibited by Jainism. As this causes
          violence.

          BUt as you see jains practicing it today , that
          shows how Hinduism has fucked up [here fucked up means , Typically
          used in reference to being physically, mentally, morally/
          asthetically, performance-wise, or even theoretically damaged in some
          way. ] Jianism.

          This is cause of most of Jains are converts ,
          which make their own versions of jainism that eases them out.

          4.
          Hindusim include rituals like Caste system, sati pratha, animal
          sacrifice, and even Man-sacrifice, untouchability and many more
          evils.

          [ Evils like ashwmedha >> in which the chief
          queen has to perform sex with dead horse.
          This is Hindusim, read
          it here >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashvamedha
          which
          are in now way part Jianism.

          So in no way could have Jainism
          decent from Hinduism.
          As jain's main belief are completely
          opposite to hindusim.

          5. Jainsim in fact has been corrupted
          ,as many jain think thithankar are the creators of the world, but the
          real jainsim is not as such.

          You need to come out of
          your stereotypical nature, thats the cause of your misery.
          Try
          making correct conclusion , rather than adding your own beliefs and
          your own masala, [which I am sure you might not be putting in balance
          in jain foods too, that you serve to your husband and Mother
          inlaw].

          That will help you, if you think their is something
          worng in Jianism plesae feel free to come back and ask me I am ready
          to ecplain you that their is nothing worng in jainism.
          But
          certainly Hindusim is wrong ,as it include following practices well
          documented in their religious books:

          Caste system, Sati
          pratha, animal sacrifice, Human sacrifice, untouchability ,
          ashwamedha (in which a lady has to do sex wiht dead horse),
          purushmedha (human sacrifice), non-vegetarianism, belief in creator
          (which sicne has proven don’t exist).

          I am sure even to this
          you will take as negative, due to your stereo typical nature.

          This
          might help you :
          Science proves god don’t exits , do that
          mean scientist mean Hindus are idiots.
          They certainly are ,if they
          keep following practicing same thing which science has proven false.

        • http://www.facebook.com/john.mcmahon.7796 John McMahon

          So u are probably same stereotypical-inter-caste-married girl, who
          posted some time ago , who cannot cope with her mother in law , and
          in turn you take your frustration out here and accuses jainism for
          it.

          Lady, “your” [and just your, don't extend it to
          all ladies of the world "don't do this , its not how we do it"
          [which in correct context means the same thing what they told ]

          But
          you make your interpretations, likewise, due insecurity and your
          stereotypical orthodox nature as >>
          ” Do not do
          nothing , your mother has not taught you anything you idiot & you
          certainly has same behavior as what expected form you ”

          This
          how you interpret things, which now here intentioned.
          Thats the
          cause of your misery.

          Now,
          If I use your own logics , than
          your words in your last comments, concludes that you too consider
          urself superior as cleared from your comments:
          “dont u know
          that all religion decent from hinduism itself”
          What do you
          mean all religions ??

          Not all religions, neither
          Jainism, nor Buddhism, nor Islam, nor Christianity..
          Here is the
          long list of religions which has nothing to do with Hindusim
          :

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religions_and_spiritual_traditions

          But
          I know that was not your means, but you were stereotyped against my
          explanation due to your previous bad experience with your family, so
          I have to explain you in your own stereotypical manner.
          Take your
          time , re-read my comments if you feel angry , re-evaluate “are
          you feeling angry because they are truth , as truth is the one that
          hurts the most”.
          Your perception is certainly
          stereotyped.

          2.Jainism has not been derived form Hinduism in
          any way.

          Proofs:
          1. Jainism is an atheist belief, whereas
          as per Hinduism world has 3 gods > Bhrama, vishnu and
          mahesh.
          Together they are known as the creator , saviour, &
          destroyer oif universe.

          But an atheist concept is that don’t
          believe in any such entity.

          2. The foundation books of
          Hindusim has description of Adinatha, the first thithankar of
          Jainism.
          This shows that Adinath was aa alive person prior to when
          Vedas were written, therefore only he is mention in the
          book.

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rishabha_%28Jain_tirthankar%29#Literary_Sources

          This
          again reinforce the idea that as Adinath was existing before the
          vedas, that means Jainism dates back older than hinduism.

          3.
          Vedic practice mainly consist of animal sacrifice, yagyas and
          havanas, which is strictly prohibited by Jainism. As this causes
          violence.

          BUt as you see jains practicing it today , that
          shows how Hinduism has fucked up [here fucked up means , Typically
          used in reference to being physically, mentally, morally/
          asthetically, performance-wise, or even theoretically damaged in some
          way. ] Jianism.

          This is cause of most of Jains are converts ,
          which make their own versions of jainism that eases them out.

          4.
          Hindusim include rituals like Caste system, sati pratha, animal
          sacrifice, and even Man-sacrifice, untouchability and many more
          evils.

          [ Evils like ashwmedha >> in which the chief
          queen has to perform sex with dead horse.
          This is Hindusim, read
          it here >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashvamedha
          which
          are in now way part Jianism.

          So in no way could have Jainism
          decent from Hinduism.
          As jain's main belief are completely
          opposite to hindusim.

          5. Jainsim in fact has been corrupted
          ,as many jain think thithankar are the creators of the world, but the
          real jainsim is not as such.

          You need to come out of
          your stereotypical nature, thats the cause of your misery.
          Try
          making correct conclusion , rather than adding your own beliefs and
          your own masala, [which I am sure you might not be putting in balance
          in jain foods too, that you serve to your husband and Mother
          inlaw].

          That will help you, if you think their is something
          worng in Jianism plesae feel free to come back and ask me I am ready
          to ecplain you that their is nothing worng in jainism.
          But
          certainly Hindusim is wrong ,as it include following practices well
          documented in their religious books:

          Caste system, Sati
          pratha, animal sacrifice, Human sacrifice, untouchability ,
          ashwamedha (in which a lady has to do sex wiht dead horse),
          purushmedha (human sacrifice), non-vegetarianism, belief in creator
          (which sicne has proven don’t exist).

          I am sure even to this
          you will take as negative, due to your stereo typical nature.

          This
          might help you :
          Science proves god don’t exits , do that
          mean scientist mean Hindus are idiots.
          They certainly are ,if they
          keep following practicing same thing which science has proven false.

          • mini

            u have a gud memeory i must say.bt fyi i dnt hav ny problem wid my “sasu maa”.the problem maker r the stupid relatives who hav only on topic to discuss-jain dharam!!nd always try to teach me hw superior they are nd how low my religion is!!
            i never said jainism or others FOLLOW hinduism i said(if u undrstand english,they DESCENT from hinduism)
            i am nt talkin bout christanity or islam,but sikhism ,jainism,budhism-they all descent from sanatam dharam i.e. hinduism.u can ref check..all their respective gurus or gods were born to hindu parents.differnet thought process or circumstances led to follow different paths which led to creation of there followere nd hence a new religion.(or new teachings).

            secondly,u talk bout sati,animal sacrifice which were paracticed in oldem times.thats y they r called ill practices and r banned nw.same way like u hav ill practices in jainism(like shitting nd nd nt throwing water coz it ll kill germs!!!!!!!)untouchability nd caste system is practised by jains more den hindus.proof is many of my jains relatives(many means MANY!!!!)which would nt allow smbdy to adopt a child coz he ll b from different unknown caste!!!!

            m nt against jainism.it mite hav sm grt thoughts,bt in d end all religions preach same things-be a gud human being .

            u r ignorant nd one of the other fanatic who thinks only his religion is the best,nd go on abusing other religion nd call dem stupid or wateva.so no point discussing it with u.(i think john2find nd u r the same person!!)i dnt need to undrsntd ny shit from u coz u r a pig who will njoi d mud nd i will get dirty.so b happy with ur notions.
            nd yes i make very gud masaledar food.dats d only thng my “JAIN RELATIVES”love me for!!

    • MJ

      Hi Ted,

      There is nothing mention like that in Jainism you cant marry to other person. But If a Jain person is going to marry to other religion person then in their children their will be lack of Jains Sanskar. By Jain Sanskar I mean that after child birth of 40 days child has to bring in the Temple and whisper Namokar Mantra in child’s ear. After 8 years Child can do Abhishek and Pooja because upto 8 years child dont know what is good and what is bad. So now if One of the parent who married to other religion expect that after 20 years their child should know about jain religion and do all abhishek and pooja and read Jain ethics and follow jain rituals. Then he cant do because from last 20 years he was having some other religion sanskars and practicing that. It will be very difficult for him to adopt that and to follow Jain rituals and Various aspects and consequences of violence, Misconceptions of non-violence etc. I am not denying but its on Punya and Purusharth of the person whether he wants to adopt and follow Jainism or not.

  • Spuddie

    People can do worse.

    Atheists treat them with kid gloves because as a belief they are not threatening to the rights and beliefs of others. Sure their ideas are as kooky as every other form of religious belief, but they do not pose a problem for anyone else.

    As far as I know, Jainists are unlikely to be committing mass murder or attacking democratic principles anytime soon.

  • Jaina

    I feel sorry for you. Hope you will find peace with your parents.

  • MJ

    To understand Jainism, One should read 4 anuyogs[PrathmaNuyog(jain stories),CharnaNuyog(Charitra of Muni And Shravaks), KarnaNuyog(Karma's Bandh Uday & Satta, Jeev ke Gunasthaan Vivechan), DravyaNuyog(Dravya aur Jeev ka Sambandh, Vyavhaar ney and Nischay Ney)] in the same order which I mentioned. If you follow only DravyaNuyog you will never get to know about Karma formation, their attachment with Pudgal(Body) , upto what time and at what intensity they will come and give result. If A Jeev/Aaatman is in Swarag lok Which is the current Gunasthhan there or in Narak lok and likewise in Tiryanch Lok and Manushya Lok. What kind of Body and structure one should have so that he can be able to do Tup and can attain Moksha. One should know about Nimit and Nemeytic sambandh. Digamber Muni who is in 7th Gunasthan(When aatman Vishuddhi increases Gunsthan also increases in order 1->2->3—->14) then slowly slowly they follows Nischay ney because at this tym they follows either Upsham Shreni aur Shayik Shreni. But before 7th Gunasthan they have both Vyavhaar Ney and Nischay Ney. 13 and 14 Gunasthan are Kevali Avastha. After this Sidhha Avastha.

  • MJ

    Hanuman was Kamdev and Kaamdev cant have face like Monkey. He was from Vaaner Vansh and her mother lived in Hanu Nagri due to which he was named as Hanuman. His mother named as Anjana who gave him birth in jungle and stay there with her female friend. His father named as Pavan Raja. And he is not the Pavan dev. He attained Moksha from that Bhav itself. Ram also attained Moksha from that Bhav itself. Ram(Balbhadra), Lakshman(Narayan), Raavan(Pratinarayan) in Jain Ramayan. Hanuman was brother in law of Raavan and helped him in many war against Raavan before met with Ram. JainRule:- Pratinarayan always killed by Narayan with the help of Balbhadra. Currently Lakshman is in Narak and Sita is Dev in Swarg. Raavan is also in Narak and will become Tirthankra in next 4th kaal of Utsarpani Kaal because he was very religious and follow SolahKaran Bhavna due to which Tirthankara Prakrati Karm Bandh ho gaya.. Lakshman will also become Tirthankar but I am not sure whether he will become from Videh Kshetra or from Bharat Kshetra. Sita will become Gandhar in Raavan’s Samosharan. One more thing The people who are having body structure like Animal Face and rest body as a man ..these kind of people are found in the KuBhogBhumi. This all basics you can get if you read TatwarthSutra. What kind of people are found at which place as what they did in the past. Balram (Balbhadra) have already attained Moksha and Krishna(Narayana) is currently in the Narak and will attain moksha in the future after becoming Tirthankara. Krishna was the cousin Brother of Neminath Bhagwan(Tirthankara) and got Kshayopsham Samyagdarshan in the samosharan of Neminath Bhagwan and his Tirthankara Prakrati Bandh also started from there itself. But just before his death i.e in AntarMuhurat(less than 48 minutes)he became Mithatvi jeev. As he reached to Narak in Antarmuhurat again he achieved samyagdarshan and again his Tirthankara Prakrati Bandh started. In next 4th kaal ie Uttsarpani kaal(Currently This is pancham 5th Hundasarpani Kaal)he will become Tirthankara and will attain Moksha following through all the process required in that i.e. he has to follow/go the “KShayik Shreni” upstairs(Aatman/Jeev Vishuddhi/pureness of soul going increases and increases ) until all the 4 Ghatiya (Gyanavarniya, Darshanavarniya, Mohiniye and Antaraya) and 4 Aghatiya karm(AAyu, Naam. Gotra Vedniya) i.e. total 148 Karm Prakrati vanished and destroyed.

    Jai Jinendra

  • MJ

    Chandragupta Maurya once saw 16 dreams & went to Digambar Jain naked monk Bhadrabahuji, who was the last Shrut-kevali of this time cycle according to jainism. Bhadrabahuji, being shrut keveli & avadhi gyani can predict future. When Chandragupta Maurya described his 16 dreams, he told him the meaning of this 16 dreams & predicted that according to these dreams, there was going to be long & severe famine in the kingdom of Magadha (in modern Bihar) i.e. central India & forthcoming time wasn’t good for Jain monks & it will also affect badly the followers of Jain religion.

    Great Jain saint & last Shrut-kevali Acharya Bhadrabahuji was the head of the entire jain sangh (i.e. a group of jain monks) that time. There were around group of 24000 Jain monks. With a view to avoid the terrible effects of famine Shri Bhadrabahu, along with a body of 24,000 jain monks, decided to migrate from Pataliputra, the capital of Magadha, to Shravanabelagola (in modern Karnataka State) in South India for the time of famine, so that they do not get affected by the effects of famine & could keep up the muni-dharma. But out of 24000 monks, around 12000 opposed this decision & refused to come with Acharya Bhadrabahu, while remaining 12000 supported his decision & decided to join their head Acharya Bhadrabahu & come with him to south. Hence, Bhadrabahu migrated to Shravanabelagola with group of 12000 jain monks & remaining 12000 jain monks stayed who refused to migrate stayed back in Magadha under the leadership of monk Sthulibhadra

    After hearing the meaning of his dreams, Chandragupta decided to take Jina-deeksha (i.e. become a jain saint) from Bhadrabahuji & became jain-monk. Chandragupta was Emperor of Magadha & devoted to Ächärya Bhadrabahu, abdi­cated his throne in favor of his son Bindusara, joined Bhadrabahu’s entourage as a monk‑disciple & stayed with Bhadrabahu at Shravana­belagola for 12 years after death of his teacher Bhadrabahu, in about 297 B.C. died after practicing penance according to the strict Jain rite of Sallekhana on same hill at Shravanabelagola. This Bhadrabahu ­Chandragupta tradition is strongly supported by large number of epigraphic & literary evidences of very reliable nature.

    To know more about relation between Shri Bhadrabahu-1, Chandragupta Maurya & Chanakya. refer http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JatHistory/message/5098

    So, we see that till Bhadrabahu the entire Jain sangh (jain sangh means group of jain monks) was one & united. i.e. there was no sect or sub-sect amongst jainism, everyone were Digambaras & there was no other sects or sub-sects of jainism like shwetambaras or sthankvashis sect & there was only Digambar tradition in that time…

    Now, let us have pre-cap to our initial topic to understand division of jain religion into sectos:- As wrote above, Chandraguta became jain monk & joined the sangha of 12000 monks led by Bhadrabahuji. The sangha went to south India. At Sravanbelgola region of Karnataka, Bhadrabahu felt that now his life is going to end, so he asked the sangh to leave him there & go to Chola-desh (Tamil Nadu). But, monk Chandragupta remained with Bhadrabahuji to serve him.

    The remaining sangh under the leadership of Vishaknandiji went to south. When the Jain sangh lead by Vishakhnandiji came to Chandraguptaji, they thaught that he that he has got corrupt as it was not possible for jain monk to follow jain muni-dharma conduct as per Jin-Vaani (means preachings of Lord). But, when Chandragupta asked the sangh to have Ahaar (Ahaar means food taken by jain monk from pure jain shravakas i.e. devotee as per strict rules for monk) in the town, they really found a town & a lot of shravakas (shravakas means jain devotees) there.They appologised to Chandraguptaji & went Northwards.

    When the ascetics of Bhadrabahu‑sangha returned to Pataliputra of Kingdowm Magadha after the end of 12 year period of famine, they, to their utter surprise, noticed 2 significant changes that had taken place during their absence. Among the 12000 ascetics of Magadha under the leadership of Ächärya Sthulibhadra, In the first place, the rule of nudity was relaxed & the ascetics were allowed to wear a piece of white cloth (known as Ardhaphalaka). Secondly, the sacred books were collected & edited (adultrated) at the council of Pataliputra in their absense in which they found some inconsistencies. As a result the group of returned monks did not accept the two things, introduced by the followers of Ächärya Sthulibhadra, namely, the relaxation of the rule of nudity & the recension of the sacred texts, & proclaimed themselves as true Jains. Eventually, Jain religion was split up into two distinct sects, viz., Digambara (stark naked) and Shvetämbar (white-clad) about 600 years after Nirvän of Lord Mahavir.
    Source(s):
    http://www.jainbelief.com/Jain_History.htm#_Toc528031707
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZ73uc6KHEY
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jain_cosmology

  • Ali

    Haha Jains are the most weak and cowardly among the Indians.

    Lucky India has Rajput, Sikh and Marathis, otherwise it would have been conquered long ago! Jain is a unhealthy religion, most Gujratis/Jains are small and weak…

  • kkk

    USir I understand ur feelings
    but u only knw 10% of jainsm
    u need to go deep in Jainism then only u will knw the value
    I am happy that i hav born in Jain religion
    its clean religion
    go deep and study my frnd

  • elbofo

    you have some serious issues, seek help.

  • Mitesh Jain

    Any knowledgeable mind would understand what non sense article you have written..Jainism is the most supreme ,scientific and a religion in true sense of the meaning ..no other religious ideologies come even close to this greatest religion ..first you should go and read more about this and then write..you are such an ignorant person that I dont even feel like debating with you and wasting my time

  • just saying..

    The worst experience in my life was with a Jain family from India. I’m a white girl from the United States and fell in love with an American guy – who happened to have been born in India. Yes, he was Indian. But he was also American. I was excited to meet his family, explore his religion, and guessed that any family who professes to be remotely religious would welcome a new friend to the family. It was bad from “hello”. I have never known a family to be more closed-minded, hypocritical, hateful, prejudice family. All disguised as “religious, or cultural” differences. B.S. They have caused such pain to their son, and to their other children for their lack of awareness, acceptance and love for other people outside their religion and culture. I have since met many other women and men who suffer the same pain caused directly by their family.

    • john2find

      Jainism preach absloute non-violence.
      Not hurting just humans but also non humans , both physically and emotionally, that’s the key concept of Jainism.
      The behavior that family has shown is instead condemn by jainism,
      This people you met might have been jains by birth, but they certainly are not following what Jainism teaches.
      Pleaes let me know a single line or verse in Jainism scripture which preaches to show such behavior to others.

      Those people were bad cuz they have not followed jainsim principle:

      Don’t do to other , which you don’t like to yourself”

      So I expect that you blame people rather than Jainism, as the fault is in people rather than in the principal of Jianism

  • NotFalse

    Many of the things are just unproven not false as with many religions. There is no proof for “God” in Christianity but they still believe in it. Same with Jainism. Science hasn’t found these things yet, but many are getting closer example, we now know the universe is expanding and some time in several thousand years, it will contract again and then expand and then contract. Sound familiar? Time cycle.

    • Tel

      But not a cycle of happiness and sadness, and not over thousand of years — it’s billions.

      Also, the Big Crunch is a hypothesis. We’re not sure whether the universe will collapse or whether it will just keep expanding and getting colder.

      • john2find

        1. FYI : The scales of Jain time cycle is already in billion of years & not in thousands of years which you assumed yourself.
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jain_cosmology#Time_cycle

        2. Big crunch is hypothesis just same as big bang is, agreed, but:

        1. If big crunch is definitely true than time will be cyclic, that you need to agree and which strengthens Jainism point of view.

        2. I assume you are an atheist [Jains are atheist too], so u are naturally biased against word “religion” [Jainism is not a religion though, as per Jianism definition its a "Dharma" which means "Law" of nature]
        What word Dharma means as per Jainism read it here:
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dharma_%28Jainism%29

        So whenever some one speaks word religion, first thing you think your brain do is “Stop Listening, and start opposing”.

        3. If my assumption is correct , that you being an atheist , than you need to re-evaluate your views.
        Because when you need to tackle theists Big-bang becomes a concrete argument and now when you need to tackle Jainism : Big bang becomes a hypothesis [which indeed is still a hypothesis, but backed by strong evidences].

        4. Whether universe will keep expanding, due to drop of entropy ?
        Big crunch is neither rejected completely, so Jains have 50% probability [so do Big bang, as it too have 50% probability of being true, unless big bangs becomes fact rather than a hypothesis].

        But unless we have these hypothesis on place, time gonna be cyclic.

        So rather than saying “Jains are wrong “, you must come with an evidence that Big crunch is definitely wrong, so Jains will have no way than to accept you.

        • Mario Strada

          Just like with Christian Apologists, you make the claim, you bring the proof. Don’t ask me to disproof your belief. You are the one that have to bring evidence.
          And so far I have seen very little aside from speculation about “big crunch”.
          Many things in nature are cyclical. Seasons, moon, etc. It’s not a stretch to apply those patterns to the cosmos as well.
          So color me unimpressed even if you can prove that some property of the universe is cyclical (which you didn’t so far). You would have done by extrapolation and got lucky.

          • john2find

            Sir its Hemant who said :

            Time cyclic concept or Jainism are wrong, to which I replied with an evidence/argument that :

            “If ” Big-bang and Big-crunch are true , than time should be cyclic.”

            Its you who is claiming big crunch is a definite false, so its you who need to bring proof to prove its a definite false.

            Big crunch is backed by law of gravitation and loss of acceleration due to it.

            Until its proven that big-crunch is definite false, I gain a right to believe that time will be cyclic as it supported by “Big Bang and big crunch”.

            Evidence are already put forth , its you who is still don’t wanna believe in them.

          • john2find

            I am not applying things on cosmos ,its theory of big bang and hypothesis of Big crunch that is concluding time to be cyclic.
            This thing you need to help your self in understanding.

        • Tel

          1. I got “thousands” from what Hehmant said. It is true that the time cycles vary in length, some being thousands and some being longer. I also wanted to correct NotFalse’s statement that the big crunch was due in mere thousands of years — even if it happens, it won’t be that soon.

          2. Small correction: the big bang theory is a theory, not a hypothesis. It is a well-evidenced explanation for a number of facts which aids us in future science, and it has withstood current questioning. The big crunch is a hypothesis, however, being one possible outcome calculated from current data which does not bring together many facts and explain them.

          2.1. I fail to see how the big crunch would strengthen Jainism. The expansion and contraction would likely happen on a different timescale than Jainism’s varying time cycles, enough to make it meaningless with relation to them. Also, the fact that Genesis says that the world began in a way some Christians interpret as the big bang doesn’t lend Christianity credibility, because of all the other stuff Genesis gets wrong.

          2.2. I am an atheist, but atheism does not inherently mean opposition to the word “religion”. I’m not a humanist but I think secular humanism is pretty cool, and it’s a religion. Anyway, though, Jainism is a set of beliefs about the supernatural (e.g. karma, time cycles combined with happiness and sadness, and reincarnation) and practices associated with them (e.g. nonviolence). Sounds pretty like a religion to me.

          2.3. I’ve addressed the fact/hypothesis thing above. I always claim the big bang theory as the scientific theory that it is, and the big bang itself — the singularity — as the fact that it is. (It happened. We may or may not be sure of how and why, but we know that there was a time when all matter expanded from a point, or close to a point, like that.)

          2.4. I have no idea where you got the 50% thing from. That seems like saying, “I either will win the lottery or I won’t. Therefore, if I enter then I have a 50% chance of winning,” which is clearly nonsense. Just because there are multiple competing hypotheses does not mean that all therefore have equal probability.

          It so happens that the growing consensus among cosmologists is that there will *not* be a big crunch and instead the universe will continue expanding and die a heat death. These two very accessible NASA pages explain how our observations support that hypothesis rather than the big crunch one — maybe it’ll become a theory at some point. http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/universe/uni_shape.html http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/universe/uni_fate.html

          A few items in response to your closing sentence…

          Firstly, nobody can currently say for sure who is right and who is wrong about the fate of the universe, although we may be able to do so very soon, so I’ll wait on composing such an argument.

          Secondly, explaining how people are definitely wrong — like explaining how the Genesis creation accounts are wrong according to the theory of evolution — does not mean people will abandon their beliefs, so such an argument may have little or no effect.

          Thirdly, I don’t think I said “Jains are wrong”. I said that that particular commenter was wrong about a couple things.

          • john2find

            1. Jianism Time cycles are in billions of trillions years.
            2. Big bang is a theory , and big crunch is a hypothesis, Agreed.
            But big crunch is not definitely a wrong hypothesis,& thats why its not eradicated.
            As said earlier, “if ” big crunch is a possibility than cyclic time will be a possible too.
            2.1 I support Big bang, but it not a law, and hence has probability of being false.
            Just like atheist take stand of Big bang in spite it being a law, I do take stand of Big crunch , as its a possible outcome, rather than a definitely wrong hypothesis.

            2.2 I said “Big Crunch ” Strengthens Jianism “point of view” about time cycles and not jainsim as whole.

            >>The expansion and contraction would likely happen on a different timescale than Jainism’s varying time cycles, enough to make it meaningless with relation to them.

            What makes you conclude that “definitely” they have a different time scales ?
            Scales of jainism are always in billions and trillion of years:
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jain_cosmology#Time_cycle

            Christianity looses its weight, due to its own falses:
            1.cause it claims that world is 6000 years old and Adam was the first human, which is not the case of Jainism.
            2. Support slavery
            3. Sex inequality
            many more taboos this thing makes Christianity or abrahamic religions taboo.

            Where as Jianism scores better as it don’t preach taboos + its claim that universe is uncreated and is everlasting and is cyclic in nature, it calimed Transparent water has micro organism [its well recorded sicne 2500 years ago], which can’t be seen with naked eyes which are later confirmed by science once micorscope was inveneted.
            And these particular views is in line with the available scientific claims.
            These Jianism claims and their alignment with known science fact add weight to Jianism philosophy.

            You say that Some Christians alter their belief and support big bang, than they are indeed biting their own leg.
            Either Adam was not the first human or big bang is a lie, their won facts contradicts their own belief.

            Where as jainism Time cycles cannot be contradicted by their own belief or known science facts.
            In fact it aligns with the known scientific theories , laws and hypothesis.

            I know I am sounding like regular Religion guy who trying to sci-fi their religion so that it looks like truth.
            But I don’t need to , as my religion said:

            1. Water has microbes and one cannot see with naked eyes ,and if microscope would not have been invented you will be still believing it to be a false claims form Jianism.
            2. Time is cyclic and universe is not 6000 year old , its everlasting and cyclic.
            3. It main theme is the golden rule of non-violence : “Don’t do to other that you don’t like to yourself”.

            2.4 You are an athiest , so do I as a Jain as I don’t believe in a God, but I don’t have an approach of blocking my ears and curl my fist to blow punch, whenever some one says “listen here I have reason for my belief”. And I belive you have this attitude as its seems to me from your replies.

            A thing that sounds to you correct , as you said “Sounds pretty like a religion to me.”, does not necessarily mean its correct. What Jainsim “Dharma” means is already well recorded in jain text :
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dharma_%28Jainism%29

            Which says “The true nature of a thing” is called dharma.

            2.5 I have no issue with big bang as it indeed supports Jianism point of view. So we don’t need to argue on it either.

            2.6 50% probability, I accept I am wrong to say it has 50 % probability.
            But unlike the concepts of christinaity/ abrahamic religion, which claims that earth is 6000 year old , which gives them a probability of 0 [in terms of universe origin and ].
            Jainism do have a fair probability [in term of universe under] , as this are backed by big bang and big crunch “possibilities”, in terms of its time cycle concepts.

            2.7 Unless big-crunch becomes a finitely wrong hypothesis, its equally wrong for you to claims it certainly a false concept.

            2.8 I know I might appear to be molding beding Science and jianism to fit together, but I have not.

            If you summarize my saying till now, its says ” If Big bang and BIg crunch are a definitely true phenomenons ” then “Time cycles of Jainism seems possible which adds weight to Jains theory about universe and its nature”

            • john2find

              Correction :
              2.1 I support Big bang, but it not a law, and hence has probability of being false.
              Just
              like atheist take stand of Big bang in spite it being a “theory ” [typed it law by mistake in last comment], I do take
              stand of Big crunch , as its a possible outcome, rather than a
              definitely wrong hypothesis.

  • jai

    Hey, Mr.X. I dont see your name so I have a name Mr X for you. I definitely believe that you were born in an orthodox jain family. But I wish if you were more aware about the things you have cited on the page. It simply shows how unaware unconcerned person you are , who is just trying to let out his disgust here publicly and ruin the impact of jainism on other people. Also I think this page is a black mark on you and all Jains, as you should have gone to a Maraasaab or some realy knowledgeable people for this. But After reading this I can say I myself am enough to impart you some knowledge on issues which are going on in your head.

  • sj

    My friend just follow nonviolence deeper than microscopic level and you are following jainism…and if not able to see deeper than microscopic level just follow what jainism taught…i must say u got some + karma thats why so many people come to help u out even my self writing a big comment

  • varsha7777

    people lets keep calm and not prove ourselves wrong … Jainism is all about non-violence so lets not fight n we know better about our religion so lets not explain those people whom we really don’t need to :) lord mahavir will also forgive him because he has a big heart after all :)

  • Beutelratti

    “Jains are very bad at being self-critical,…”

    After reading this comment section I have no problem believing that.

    • Filthy Bill

      I was pretty blown away by how many people are internet yelling at each other over Jainism on an atheist blog. Same shit, different religion.

  • http://gamesgirlsgods.blogspot.com/ Feminerd

    CAPS MAKE IT TRUE!

    Also, if you want to call someone stupid, you may wish to at least attempt to have proper grammar, spelling, and punctuation. We all know that typos happen, but you didn’t even try.

    It’s nice that religion provides a security blanket to people. If you care about whether what you believe is true, though, you’ll want some evidence for any belief, including religious ones. Hemant is merely pointing out that while we focus mostly on the religions that do great harm to people, the “nice” religions like Jainism don’t make any more sense or have any more evidence supporting them. They do less harm in their wrongness, but they’re equally wrong.

  • Filthy Bill

    RABBLE BABBLE YOU CLEARLY DON’T UNDERSTAND JAINISM LIKE I DO RABBLE BABBLE HOW COULD YOU QUESTION SOMETHING EVER MYSTICISM INSERT QUOTES HERE HOW CAN YOU EVER KNOW RABBLE BABBLE.

    It’s like the same bullshit that comes up on say, any comment section that has a bunch of [type of religious followers]. Incredible. Cool out people. Look at your jam critically and if you find no reason to not believe then go right ahead and keep doing it. Hemant having this on this site isn’t going to ruin it or anything. So much yelling about this crap.

  • Charles Andrew Smith

    Hahaha, you know it’s getting pathetic when people try to marry science and religion. The parallels are always great.

    “Life is like the bowling alley. You throw the ball down the lane to hit your targets, and the physics of the throw determine the end result, as well as some practice and skill. Because life takes practice, just like the bowling alley. So that is proof that my religion is right and yours is wrong. And no, I didn’t choose to defend this religion because my parents brought me up with it. I’m sure I would have gone to Jainism if I were born in a Catholic family, because Jainism is the truth. What, you think I’m full of shit? No, YOU’RE full of shit and wrong and stuff. I’m defending this because realizing that a core belief I’ve held all of my life is a crock of shit would shatter my entire being.. and btw I HATE HATE HATE being wrong about something. Oh and yeah you’re stupid.”

  • Neerav Kothari

    i am a jain and i share ur views. and i am trying to dodge the jain girl as well. the ridiculously stupid girl who is passive aggressive!

  • Devkant Gandhi

    So Hemant posts something negative about Jainism and all jains come out of the wood work defending the religion. Very expected. One guy has identified Jainism as “advance science”. Sorry but..lol.
    I am 38 year old atheist male, was raised in a strict Digambar jain family. Of course, i grew up hearing the nonsense that Hemant very correctly pointed out, what I find personally find painful is the fact that I see my parents going through the pain of unnecessary restrictions imposed upon themselves due to Jainism. Pure self torture. In this sense, I view Jainism as violence against the self.
    I live in the US now and I worry when they come over for visit, how am I going to be able to meet their strict Jain food requirements. Jainism prevents them from enjoying one single life since everything that is enjoyable is viewed in negative light. So my parents don’t travel, don’t eat out, go to the temple twice a day, and starve badly 4 months out of a year. And I have failed to reason with them. Miserably.

    • John2find

      Hi Devkant,

      You are atheist and don’t believe in Jainism, well and good.
      What makes me eager to reply you are following lines of yours:

      1. Jainism teaches Nonsense , which include what Hemant pointed >> Time cycles , Karma, Strict vegetarian diet….
      2. One guy has identified Jainism as “advance science”. Sorry but..lol.

      I in now way trying to convert your belief, you own them.
      However I will like to challenge the correctness of your belief , in regards to Jainism. For this I will like to give you some question to think on:

      Time cycle> If big bang is true and big crunch is a possible end, won’t time will behave like cycles ?

      You may argue , that they are just theories, but if this theories (which are the most accepted theory across science world) are true, then won’t be time be like cycles ?

      Karma> If all laws in nature follow conservation, what is the laws of Consciousnesses ?

      You may argue, that’s a riddle of neurology, which I don’t reject, but the main point is why those neural cells functions, to achieve whose target ?

      Who initiates this neural function in our brain and who decides that the function is complete ?

      Strict vegetarianism diet > whats nonsense in this , can you help me out in pointing what is nonsensical in it ?
      Killing other mercilessly for self taste, that’s nonsensical.

      You said >> One guy has identified Jainism as “advance science”. Sorry but..lol.
      I guess that guy is me.

      Well that not a big deal, you can say Abraham Lincoln was an idiot , indeed he wasn’t, but as you have challenged likewise you need to refute his explanation first to prove your point.

      I don’t expect you to answer , unless you come back with answers to my above questions .

  • Sunny

    Wow you are denouncing tenets of Jainism without having a complete understanding of them. Jainism is a way of life and there is a lot of science in it just as there is faith needed.

  • Saurav

    I too grew up as a Jain..and as I started seeing things around me in the world..I started feeling that so many things taught by my parents made just no sense..specially about vegetarianism and mindless rituals of fasting. On one hand they would chant prayers for freeing them of materialism but on the other hand being business people they would chase money like anything. Though the philosophical tenets of Jainism is not bad, but the practice of religion is just total unpractical and Jain community is full of hypocrites. It’s a sin to eat a dead animal..but it is not a sin to destroy environment by selling timber. It is a sin to kill a mosquito but it is not a sin to hurt a person who is weaker than you.

  • SAPNA SHAH

    BEING BORN TO A JAIN DOES NOT MAKE U A JAIN,BEING JAIN IS BEING ABLE TO CONQUER UR SELF,CONTROL URSELF AND SET URSELF FREE FRO WORLDLY MATERAILISTIC THINGS,A YOUNG BOY VISITING A PUB OR A BAR MEANS HE HAS CHOSEN TO LEAD THAT LIFE,A NON VEGETARIAN CAN ALSO CHANGE HIS LIFE STYLE AND FOLLOW THE SHRAVAK VRATS. BEING BORN TO A JAIN PARENT DOES NOT MAKE U A JAIN,U ARE FREE TO CHOSE UR LIFESTYLE.jainism is nit a caste but a chosen life style

  • Randomm

    Dude stop with this bullshit, first of all learn to respect all the religions no matter what you feel and dude your logics about jainism are totally flawed you seriously have no idea about jainism plus ur taking the wrong meaning outta it. Every religion has its own beliefs but no religion says that.the universe was created by big bang. . Im not saying that big bang is wrong im just saying that you should respect all the religions.

  • Aniket

    Seems to me u went to Wikipedia, did a general google search, and then began to talk about whats wrong with the religion.

    The arguments you are making are not specific to Jainism at all, but are a criticism of religion in general. EVERY single criticism here can be leveled against every other religion. Every religion will have its mythology which cannot be proven, its concepts which will again not be capable of being proved scientifically. And I can make any religion seems as senseless as scientology, if I chose to. Especially if i was to explain explaining religious concept, which people spend years to understand, by repeated use of 3-4 words, like you have.

    So if this article is in response to Mr. Harris and Mr. Dawkins assertion that it is a comparatively better one, then it makes no sense. Neither Mr. Dawkins nor Mr. Harris claimed it to be perfect and neither do I.

    I also need to point out, that a lot what you have said about a lot of the beliefs, is patently wrong and incorrect.

    1. the 24 tirthankars, are not supernatural beings.
    2. positive karma does not wipe out negitive karma.
    3. jainism preaches renunciation of materialism, true. but it does not do so expecting everyone to become a tirthankar, which is why there are just 24 of them. its because materialism gives rise to want and want to greed and is root of suffering. the reason are right. and even if they werent, point is the end which is good (which is what Dawkins and Harris are talking about)
    4. Jainism encourages fasting, of various differnt kinds, so as to teach control over desires and wants. Jainism DOES NOT expect individuals to hurt themselves and thiese fasts need not be done by those who do not attain the same level of control over their bodily functions as others. A large number of Jains do these fasts, wiithout deterioration of health, every year.
    5. I am a jain, but i eat non-veg and drink and not follow much of anything that the religion says. It does not make the RELIGION hypocritical.
    6. Eggs, and food that grows beneath the ground are discouraged not because of some fancy whimsical. These foods are discouraged because their consumption is considered destructive of other life forms. These foods DO NOT become permitted on specific days of the week.

    Atheists are supposed to be logical. Your IQ seems much lower than my 12 year old sis.

  • sonal

    pls explain i realy want to know about dis …as i am getting love marriage in jain family …i am punjabi pls let m know as i cud know the more values of it…

    contact aries.sonal@gmail.com

    • john2find

      Hi Sonal,

      As you are doing Love marriage, the first rule of it is that you both have accepted your differences.
      SO the answer is it does not matter what religion he has.
      You love him or not that all you should care.

      Jainism is based on Golden rule:

      “Don’t do to others which you don’t like for yourself”.

      Their is a fair possibility is that your Lover’s Family might not abide by this rule, but you must then blame it up on them rather than Jainism , as Jianism don’t teaches hatred.

      Its just says , don’t do to others which you don’t like for yourself.
      Live and let live.

  • Rohan Shah

    you are totally wrong.. before taking any final point of jainism first read the books of jainism.. u will have answers for everything,. for your kind information sir.. jain religion is the most logical religion.. dont you think why any person born poor nd some rich???..now dont say that its on luck ok.. der is nothing like luck.. this proves that in past you have sont any wrong thags y a poor is a poor and rich is rich.. nd it also proves that det is life before and after birth.. nd for your knowledge .. do you know things which are written in jain granth..scientist have that to do research on it.. jain religion is so vast.. that you never ever think of it.. i dont know you are jain or not..but please dont say anything about jain religion wothout knowing it..ok.. nd you said jain people drink.. nd all right.. so that dosent means religion made him to do that.. thats person mistake ok..he /she is not following the rules of jam.
    i think its not yur mistake.. as you havent read any books of jainism.. just have an outline view on jainism..

    http://jaijinendraa.tripod.com/view.htm
    just go through it..u will get to know., what the great met n thinks about jainism.. if you want know more about jainism you can mail me on rohanshah@sify.com ..

  • Whatever

    If u r not able to understand then its your problem. Pls go the root cause of what is happening and what is the reason before such rules of jains. Liquor is banned in almost all religoin,then why to create scene when very very few jain consume it. Pls dont dont write just for the sake of writing anything. Go to basic and then try to analyse

  • Daniel

    Enjoyed your article immensely. Well spoken and argued.

    So much of what we’re brought up to believe by our well-meaning (but sadly misguided/ignorant) parents is pure bullshit, with no tangible evidence. Therefore, we are to “have faith” or take it on the authority of those who are (purportedly) more “enlightened” than are we.

    So, you’ll begin to hear these obnoxious terms like, “spiritual” and “non- (or meta-) physical,” and such — which SEEM to point to some great mysteriousness about life, but in the end are mere superstition and, well…more bullshit.

    Kudos for you for breaking free of (and calling attention to) the absurdity of Jainism, which, agreed, is somewhat more mild when compared to “The Big Three.” Still, bullshit is bullshit, and I join you in taking off the kid gloves and knuckling into human history superstition concerning the fear of death.

    May we “smiteth ignorance mightily” along with belief in Ra, Zeus, Mythros, or the thousands of other made-up ‘gods,’ none of which seem to be able to definitively make themselves unequivocally known to mankind.

    I’m beyond incredulity at this stage of my life. Now, that sort of ignorance and blind faith just pisses me off. But in a happy way. ;-)

  • Bimal

    No religion can provide proofs of the principles that it propagates. There is no good or bad religion. There are things in each religion that one may label “bullshit”. But at the end of the day, one should be wise enough to recognise what is useful and what is not, within a religion.

    One very interesting principle in Jainism is “multiple views can be correct”. I do not see any problem in your views. Any Jains who feel offended should be reminded of this principle. By the way, I am a Jain.

  • K V

    You’re a complete fool. My parents are Jain, I don’t believe or follow the religion, but you are a complete tool for this dumb article. And i mean this from both a literary and factual viewpoint – you’re an idiot.

    Your 6 reasons for why Jains believe in “bullshit” are stupid. Those things that you cannot prove the way you say, can you prove the opposite? Karma and Karmic beliefs have been prevalent in nearly every culture / religion / way of life, this is something that cannot be proved either way. Take philosophy and art as forms of expression – they are not always the “truth” but they are important to life – I’m guessing you would remove these from life and behave like robots?

    The 8 day long fast is not encouraged, its not mandatory, its a choice. you can choose to do this, and even if you do not it does not take anything away from the fact that you’re a practising Jain or not.

    You’re a disgrace to your parents, not because you criticize their religion, its because you failed to even learn and understand the religion before you did so in an absurd way.

  • Sandip Kumar m

    You have just gone with the present world. You are making fool of yourself. Jainism is a way to learn from within. You follow that path to attain that knowledge or else forget it..it is one of the most scientific and true doctrine. You are just going by the world ly comments and lifestyle. For your clarification apply common sense here, killing insects by pesticide is unavoidable as human need foods but killing a silkworm for clothes is violence, or cow for leather… I can answer all your distorted information on jainism. I suggest you to read AGAM book and jain philosophy on Internet. Don’t miss this life of such a wonderful life in a jain family.. Finally I would see that don’t believe what you see or listen.. Apply some simple thinking on jain doctrine you will see some great concepts not available any where in this universe ….

  • shradha

    WHO MADE YOU A WRITER?YES WE DRINK MILK AND NOT EGG BECAUSE EATING MILK KIlls AND HARMS NO1 BUT EGG DOES

  • mitesh vora

    Can u prove you are hungry?, and can u prove when was earth born according to Science?, if you want proof for everything!!!

  • Nishant

    I would suggest you to please go through Jain Agams, starting from Uttaradhdhyan sutra. Then please read stories of last of tirthankar – Mahavir swami who defied his karmas and attended siddh(liberation from deaths and births).

    Also, please dont misunderstand religion just because few of its followers dont preach religion in right conduct.

    At this stage i think for you, half knowledge is more dangerous,so please remove this blog or un-publish it.

  • Digambar Jain

    Man, your intellectual & conscious level are pretty much dead. Its such a shame to see something like this from jain (I really doubt if you are jain).

  • Kovid Sawla

    The oldest textual work in the world is ‘Rigveda’ which clearly indicates about the ancient ascetic god ‘Adinath’(the first tirthankara/guru/prophet of jainism)as a founder of jain religion. Archaeological survey of one of the world’s oldest civilization ‘Indus valley civilization’ also reveals the existence of Adinath as a worshipped god.
    Many historical evidences and archaeological survey proved the existence of Mahavira and parshvanatha and their belonging to royal families.
    Though I am a atheist to but I am well aware of limitations of science and human perception capacity.
    You don’t know why you f***ing born or die. What factor is responsible for life. Where were you before you born and what happens after death. You don’t know why everybody has a unique fate, why everybody suffers, why everyone have sorrows.
    You want to disprove tenets of a religion. You don’t have guts to disprove any of them. Do you have any evidence to claim your views? Ask me you don’t.
    I am too a science student, I have read many true reincarnation case studies, many unexplained spiritual/ghostly phenomena which science did never understood.
    Moreover I have read Bible, Khuran, Hadith, ramayana, Mahabharat, geeta, manusmriti, jain scriptures like samaysara, padmapurana, Harivanshpurana etc.
    You even don’t know about your parent’s views because you never ask them.
    You want proofs,
    read harivanshpurana(written around 10th century) and note story of submergence of city of Dwarka then type ‘Lost city of Dwarka’ in youtube and watch. This is one I can give you many

  • Jeet Mutha

    I present to anyone who would bother a view of Jainism based on historical facts sans the magical background.

    http://moraldharma.blogspot.in/2013/09/paryushan-parva-is-being-celebrated-by.html

  • kitz

    Hello All..

    I have some comments. I am a Digambar Jain and my observation is most of the Jains practice Hinduism and I have strong reasons for that. Jainism preaches equality but Jain people dont think the same way. Every Jain believes in untouchability and caste system which is the basis of Hinduism. Also when needed we all leave no stone unturned to prove that we are better than other existing religions and give example of science in our religion but the fact is we respect pet dogs at our home but not a fellow person who is lower in social strata. Also there are so many comments regarding swetambar and digambars but I dont undrstand that why there is a need to show that one is superior to other. Well I believe the day we actually practice humanity there will be no need of such debates. Unfortunately, We are all born as privileged people who love to humiliate others and correlate the same to karma. We speak of karma of past births but very blatently ignore the sufferings of people surrounding us in present birth.. :(

  • s m

    Ultimate hypocrites… I agree. During the seven days of Paryushan, most Jains don’t brush their teeth to prevent killing the germs in their mouth. Then they go to their Derasar/temple on those days wearing new silk saris and robes made by killing thousands of silk worms. How come they don’t stick to cotton clothes for weddings and trips to the temple if they care so much about killing bugs.

  • Anonymous

    If this is how you reacted to Jainism, I am frightened to even wonder what might have occurred had you been brought up in any other religion. Yes, you are right, you cannot prove the cycle of life and death, nor can you prove the existence of Jesus. Religion is not science, and that is a common concept.

    However, many of Jainisms teachings are based off of science, and Mahavir was one of the first to introduce the idea of microbiology. Why do you think you boil water during those eight days? While it may be unhealthy to fast, you are saving the life of bacteria, which is the whole point of Jainism.

    Sure, maybe your parents drank milk, but don’t use your parents to generalize about the entire Jain population. Many modern day American Jains are Vegetarian, but there are still many that are Vegan. Most Jains in America also don’t fast for weeks at a time living without any possessions as monks/nuns, as they would do in India. Also, don’t think all cows are abused the way a lot are in the states.

    As for karma–Jains in scientific fields obviously do not try to disprove karma, because there is nothing in science that can disprove it, even if it cannot be proved.

    Bottomline-Your argument is invalid. Do actual on research on Jainism before ranting, and realize that even though Jains cannot prove these beliefs true, they are not trying to force them upon you, and you have no way to prove them untrue.

  • PS

    Do you know which bad sperm of your dad gave you life?

    You are searching evidence on Jainism based on some alcoholic asshole like you?

    Fasting is unhealthy? It is healthy but don’t overdo it

    All doctors recommend boiled water.

    A standard Jainism ritual says dry your vessels. Sounds familiar with Dengue instructions?

    Eat early in the evenings to stay healthy. Do doctors say it all the time?

    So why do Jains have so many rituals /demi gods when there is no GOD philosophy? The rituals and temple construction started to save Jainism extinct during vedic times. There is no fear associated or compulsion to do anything.

    The rituals gets polluted with times but don’t ridicule the religion.

  • Rajat Sankhla

    I feel that it is a matter of shame that you have got birth in a jain family..
    all those shits that you have mentioned above are just worthless. for your kind information, many of the scientists have proven and acame across that the informations given in jainism Holy books are true, correct, logical, practical and are appropriate. these books were written thousands of years ago and after thousands of year when these were investigated, they were proven correct. You should better know that you were abusing the world’s best and most practical royal religion.

  • Mike

    FUCK JAINISM ITS COPYING HINDUISM!!!!!!!!

  • san

    three logics avlbe in indian philosophy…navya nyaya,,bodha nyaya & jain nyaya….jain nyaya is mentioned as”syaadvaada”…which means we have multi-reality worlds depends on ones own thought…each thought has his own virtue & value….the sinner in some-other-way is a pure soul….syaadvaada is balance thinking…standing firm in ones way but simanteneusoly watching condradictory part of it..& by realizing it u respect others…

  • Amit

    My own story.
    I was born in a family of science believers. But I never understood the stupid dogmas of science like :
    1. Big bang theory : seriously, you are not correct even about your 50 year old history and you claim knowledge of billions of years. Who has seen big bang theory? False theory, no proof.
    2.Modern people believe in so many false things like cells, dna and atoms. Again my gold standard :did you see it with naked eyes. How gullible people are!
    3.Scientists believe there should be life on other planets. Seriously are you kidding me?
    Mom Dad this is why I never agreed to your plans to marry me to a smart educated lady professor.

  • jashu

    I think its big bull shit of mental people. They R much innocent and pray for that nudity.. Ha.ha.ha….. Their Food bit funny…. RIP those Mental followers of jainism

  • testtoman

    Jainism and Buddhism are sister concepts from the common vedic concept i.e sanathan dharma (hinduism).. jainism & Buddhism are basically non-violent reforms geared against animal sacrifices. Jainism remained in india while buddhism spread outside i.e towards tibet/china/srilanka/south east asia/central asia.. but all showcases the basic message of dharma/meditation/reincarnation/indian mythology ramayana/mahabharata and offcourse OM … jainism is very strict in food habits, buddhism & hinduism are comparatively quite flexible when food is concerned. Sikhism newest variant started up against cast supremacy but at the end is the warrior wing of north western india but hey too have OM, meditation, ramayana stories, dharma etc etc.. and all of them do bow down (naman!) … hence technically all belong to same thing! .. in india jains,buddhist and sikhs r considered as hindus because fundamentals are same! … if anyone doesnt agree with me then just try to understand the origin(meaning) of word OM and meaning of Namaste (naman) !!!…but just defining some set of rules new religions cannot be invented !

    • testtoman

      I think since jains are strict, people find it difficult to practice with changed time. You cant make potato banned in today’s time (its a need of an hour, grows faster and cheapest vegetable available) especially when lots of mc donalds around selling french fries .. need to adapt to it !

  • Friendly Athiest

    I’m not anti-anyone, but all of my encounters with Jains have been duplicitous. I know this is a generalization but all of the American ones lie at a level I’ve not witnessed before. I know with some younger ones who assimilate it’s necessary to have dual lives if their parents are alive, but it allows them to have a completely separate reality. And yes I know many other religions have liars and alternate realities too, but with the Jains I’ve met it’s consistent.

  • Vaibhav Jain

    Hello Hemant, I just watched your youtube video on Jainism. Here are some suggestions:
    1. Please clear your doubts regarding the influence of ‘Jain philosophy’ on M.K. Gandhi, its a historical fact! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohandas_Karamchand_Gandhi
    2. Know about the concept of Karma in Jainism, which is entirely opposite as compare to Hinduism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karma (See Jainism)
    3. Please do mention about the contribution of Jain Scholars in Science and Mathematics in your future post.
    Cosmology: It Endorses the ‘non-creationism’, ‘cyclic model of multiverse’ and also hypothesize about time, space, matter, principle of motion and rest.
    - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jain_cosmology
    - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclic_model
    Mathematics: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_mathematics
    Microbiology: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microbiology#Ancient
    Ecology: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parasparopagraho_Jivanam

    4. Does the soul exist? http://jaincosmos.blogspot.in/2011/05/anekantavada-part-4-syadvada.html (It might seem too complex or mystical to you) LOL

    5. Last point and a request to you is whenever you talk about Jainism, dare to mention about the most important and fundamental doctrines of Jainism. i.e.,
    Anekantavada (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anekantavada) I hope that this philosophy of ‘multiplicity of viewpoints’ or ‘multifaceted nature of reality’ might negate the contradictory arguments in your mind. Have you ever seen any philosophy which is ‘critical’ of itself?

    Footnote:
    I like your efforts but as you know partial knowledge is a dangerous thing. Atheists know more about religion than believers. Jain philosophy surely has many errors and misinterpretations but it’s core is undeniably enlightening. Even modern science has many flaws and it is constantly evolving. And yeah, I’m a proud atheist but I also respect the rational thoughts of the past thinkers! Thank You!

  • Mehta

    Your opinions are criticisms are based on Jains with whom you have
    grew-up with, and I too had the same opinion, untill I came to India.
    And Jains now days are living a very superficial life, most outside India and in urban India.
    I am disappointed with this article, not regarding that its criticizing Jainism, but its based on superficial beliefs of Jainism.

    You being Atheist upon birth would not have bothered me at-all, but when wrong religious beliefs are put on, and then converting to Atheist and criticizing Jainism just shows the cry to define your Atheist beliefs.
    Anyways its your life, you write wetf you wanna write. ;)


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