The Problems with Jainism

I don’t write about my parent’s religion here very often, but since this weekend marks the 16th Biennial Jaina Convention, we might as well discuss Jainism.

For those who don’t know, Jainism’s major tenet is non-violence. If you know anything about Jainism, that’s what you know about it. Unfortunately, that one idea seems to negate all the other nonsense Jainism propagates.

Sam Harris wrote about the non-violence aspect of Jainism in The End of Faith (where he argued that even moderate religions were harmful):

A rise of Jain fundamentalism would endanger no one. In fact, the uncontrollable spread of Jainism throughout the world would improve our situation immensely. We would lose more of our crops to pests, perhaps (observant Jains generally will not kill anything, including insects), but we would not find ourselves surrounded by suicidal terrorists or by a civilization that widely condones their actions.

Even Richard Dawkins said as much in a 2007 interview with Terrence McNally:

TM: In other words, if it were just a philosophical belief that had no impact on the world, fine.

RD: Exactly. I don’t think you’ll find many people criticizing any gentle religion, like Jainism.

It’s true — You rarely see criticism of Jainism. But if we’re concerned with spreading the truth instead of religious beliefs, we shouldn’t stay silent. So what’s wrong with Jainism?

A lot. I know because I grew up in the faith and my parents still practice it.

While the “non-violence” aspect is admirable, Jains still believe in plenty of bullshit:

  • Jains believe in a never-ending, cyclical time cycle, with phases of “rising” and “falling” happiness. Each phase lasts several thousands of years. This is all fiction, of course.
  • Jains believe that they can accumulate and shed karma and this impacts their future lives (reincarnation). There’s no evidence of this.
  • Jains support being free of materialism — not because it can be destructive in and of itself, but because it’ll allow you to more easily break free from the cycle of reincarnation. They’re doing a good thing for the wrong reason.
  • Jains don’t believe in a god, per se, but they do believe in supernatural beings who have broken free of the reincarnation cycle to attain Nirvana. In fact, there are 24 beings who have done that… and we know their names. We memorized their names as children. Though there’s no evidence any of them ever “attained Nirvana.”
  • Jainism encourages an 8-day-long (or worse), unhealthy fasting during the holy time of the year. During the fast, you may only consume water that’s been pre-boiled.
  • The Jain rules regarding a vegetarian diet seem like they’re made up on the spot. Eggs are bad, but milk is ok. Potatoes and other food from the ground are bad, but there are exceptions depending on the day. Alcohol is forbidden, but young Jains go to bars all the time. The rules make hypocrisy rampant… but almost unavoidable.

An article profiling a Jain “nun” by Morgan Wilson in the Houston Chronicle shows just how absurd the faith can be:

“There are plenty of difference between Hinduism and Jainism; the biggest being the gods” said [Jainesh Mehta (no relation), vice president of the Jain Vishva Bharati-Preksha Meditation Center]. “Essentially, we don’t believe in the same things; we share eight demi-gods with Hinduism but even then we don’t worship them like a Hindu would. But we do have similar faith traits, that being giving up world materials to achieve Nirvana.”

“The karma you accumulate in this life and previous lifetimes will determine your condition for your next lifetime,” Mehta said. “We associate karma to be like a black cloud. The more karma you have the more ignorant you are; the less karma you have the more aware you’ve become.”

Demi-gods, nirvana, “next lifetime,” karma? Those beliefs sound like something out of Scientology. But Jains take them very seriously.

The funny thing is that so many Jains go into scientific fields, and yet, I never hear Jains say this stuff is untrue. They find a way to compartmentalize it and ignore it. When you ask them what they believe, they’ll say “Non-violence”… but they won’t mention the several levels of Hell and multiple levels of Heaven.

They’ll do research in a lab one day, and then sing a chant praising prophets, saints, and “liberated souls” the next, without ever realizing the two worlds ought to be colliding. (I sang that particular mantra every day growing up. Can you imagine how I felt when I finally figured out what it actually meant?)

As far as religions go, Jainism isn’t the worst one you’ll find. But there are plenty of lies that it spreads that we need to call out. Young Jains should be concerned with the truth and they ought to know that the religious leaders in the temple are trying to lead them away from it — as most religious leaders everywhere do. The fact that even the most outspoken atheists put on kid gloves when dealing with it is upsetting.

It’s always nice to see a religion that advocates kindness and respect, but that shouldn’t make it immune from criticism when it’s warranted. Jains are very bad at being self-critical, and it has plenty of beliefs that are untrue. I’d love to see a Jain organization, or blogger, or adherent offer up the evidence for their supernatural beliefs because I’m convinced there is none.

Note to my parents (who’ll probably never see this, anyway):

This is why I never had a desire for you to set me up with a “nice Jain girl.”

  • John Small Berries

    Demi-gods, nirvana, “next lifetime,” karma? Those beliefs sound like something out of Scientology.

    Only the “next lifetime” thing, actually. Once you’ve paid to run out all the “engrams” (bad memories) from your life, you’re told that you’ve been reincarnated hundreds or thousands of times – and you have to pay for more auditing to run out all the engrams from your past lives as well.

    Though I suppose an argument could be made for “demigods”, since they claim to gain the ability to be “at cause over MEST” (have complete control of matter, energy, space and time) once they reach “Operating Thetan level VIII”.

  • http://a-million-gods.blogspot.com/ Avicenna

    Well it is a Hindu ofshoot religion. It’s expected to be a bit wacky and have crazy dietary restrictions (unlike christianity which has deitary restrictions). And of course there is no evidence. Jainism was founded as a deist/atheistic rejection but a lot of the ceremony is due to contact with hinduism. Including the hindu adoption of Jain saints as gods. It does that to a lot of religions.

    I am an expat living in Chennai. Chennai is kind of weird because it has the most bizzare mix of religion on earth. It is the home of St. Thomas Mount, the place where doubting Thomas was said to have been martyred and interred. His remains were taken by the portugese but the Tamil Christians are really old. The thing is a lot of tamil hindus also pray to jesus (yesua/yesudas) as a result of the long association between the two faiths.

    It’s older practitioners of jainism were rather self destructive particularly the dig/svet ambara sects of jainism. There is also the whole non violence idea which in India often manifests itself in Jains giving shelter to creatures such as rats which spread the plague which I don’t think is very sane. The Mumbai Plague during the 90s was blamed on this practice.

    I don’t think I have heard of any cases of fasting till death but I do know it was a practice as well and it may be more common in the north where the more devoted jains live.

    The tamil jains have adopted some aspects of tamil culture including the ear piercing ceremony which isn’t really good for children.

    That’s really all the instances of slightly mental things from Jainism. It’s not a very overt religion in terms of telling others what they should and shouldn’t do.

    Oh. There is the bit where the only people who can attain nirvana/morksha are men. But it may have changed in recent years.

  • http://triangulations.wordpress.com Sabio Lantz

    Wow, I saw this on planet Atheist — no idea it was you till I followed the link.
    The “Compartmentalization” thing you mentioned is true.
    And I think even Atheists compartmentalize == it is not just a brain function used for religion. I did a short post on it with a fun picture.

  • http://www.laughinginpurgatory.com/ Andrew Hall

    Isn’t karma just a way to place blame on the victim? Oh, sorry that you were born blind or mentally disabled. It must be all that bad karma you racked up in your past life, shame on you.

  • Steve

    I don’t think it’s just Jainism. It seems to me that westerners in general have a habit of giving a pass to all eastern and tribal religions – the myths of the “inscrutable East” and the “Noble Savage,” respectively.

  • Bill

    (unlike christianity which has deitary restrictions).

    I’d spit my coffee on the monitor, if it weren’t in the microwave…

    It’s feeling “compartmentalized”…separated from its Supreme Daddy.

  • AnonymousCoward23

    There’s also an issue with homophobia and transphobia in Jainism, no?

  • Gaby A.

    You know, I think it’s time we give a shout out to Taoism which is generally more a philosophy (but even then, classic Taoism believed in an internal “alchemy” and magic, but the idea of going with the flow suits me fine). :-)

  • Hugh Kramer

    Note to my parents (who’ll probably never see this, anyway):

    This is why I never had a desire for you to set me up with a “nice Jain girl.”

    Just as well. They’d probably set you up with a “plain Jain.” :)

  • Stephen P

    Do Jains prohibit the washing of clothes and disinfecting of toilets, or do they draw the line at non-violence towards bacteria?

    (Hmm … that was intended to be sarcastic, but given that we’re dealing with religion, I fear it has to be a serious question.)

  • Penn

    I’d be curious to see a similar sceptical viewpoint on modern non-Evangelical Quakerism. I grew up in it, which means partly that it’s hard for me to see flaws. Other than the belief in the supernatural, of course.

  • http://cafephilos.wordpress.com/ Paul Sunstone

    Jains support being free of materialism — not because it can be destructive in and of itself, but because it’ll allow you to more easily break free from the cycle of reincarnation.

    Freedom from materialism is fine until it gets translated into freedom from adequate food, shelter, clothing, medicine, and modern sewer systems. Does Jainism ever go that far? It seems to at least have the seeds of world denial in it. Is that a fair characterization?

  • littlejohn

    Demi-gods, nirvana, “next lifetime,” karma?
    Scientology? No, but it sounds a hell of lot like Hinduism.
    At any rate, I think there is a heirarchy of religions with respect to their danger. I doubt that any Jain has burned a witch or detonated a suicide vest.

  • Denis Robert

    “While the “non-violence” aspect is admirable”: That is a pretty strong unexamined assertion, isn’t it? The extreme aspect of Jainism’s “non-violence” would make Jainism an extinct religion if it ever became truly popular, to the point of threatening political pertinence. There has never been a truly non-violent society; only protected, often privileged members of an otherwise violent society. Jainism survives because it is a minority.

    A taste for violence is bad, as it leads to an unstable society. But so is an unreasoned refusal to commit violence in order to maintain that society. When push comes to shove, one must defend ourselves or die; it’s simple reality. We just always hope that push won’t ever come to shove in our lifetimes, and for most of us in the modern world, it doesn’t.

  • http://empiricalmystic.blogspot.com/ Vijen

    I generally like your stuff, and it’s great that you are coming out as an ex-jain, but you are throwing the baby out with the bath-water.

    You are right that jainism does not deserve a pass from atheists, it is not non-violent – look at the monks – but the violence is usually directed inwards. And yes, there is a lot of specious bullshit which has suckered some famous names, but nevertheless, you are missing something essential.

    What if the objectively observable aspect of the phenomenon you describe as “attaining nirvana” manifests simply as an ability to behave with sanity in a variety of situations, displaying the kind of everyday wisdom we often see in those around us, but enhanced so that sanity persists in all and any circumstances, there being literally no situations which could make the enlightened ones angry, or miserable, or inconsiderate of their fellows, or uncomfortable in any way. How would we know?

    Most people waste their lives being “religious” in ways which are patently and demonstrably absurd, and yet a very few people (far less than 1%) are trying to do something entirely different. This approach is routinely conflated with religion, by the religious, and also, unfortunately, by such rational people as yourself. Some of us are engaged in an empirical enquiry into the nature of our own psychology. You have probably met many who claim as much, but most of these will be selling some kind of woo, and such people are simply another distraction, no more deserving of our attention than the traditional god-botherers.

    Empiricism is the foundation of subjective enquiry, but reproducibility, that other sine qua non of the scientific method, seems to have limited applicability.* Observation is employed far more than experiment, as in astronomy. When it comes to communicating the results of the enquiry, the primary difficulty is that all terms are subjectively referenced, giving rise to abundant misinterpretation – fossils of such misunderstood communications make up the backbone of whatever genuine wisdom there is to be found in scriptures.

    Despite these difficulties it is nonetheless apt to call such subjective enquiry scientific, as it is a natural extension of the scientific approach into the subjective realm.

    A more usual word, though, is meditation, a term which is often used to mean a specific technique, whereas the meaning here intended is much more general, encompassing a way of living which is structured around a process of subjective enquiry. I recommend Sam Harris’ recent post, though he also refuses to bite the bullet and acknowledge the existence of humans whose experience is qualitatively distinct from yours or mine.

    Discoveries made by objective science only need to be made once for all to share the benefits, but it doesn’t work that way for subjective science – if you want the benefit you personally have to do all the work. My own attempts at meditation, pursued with more or less diligence over many years, have afforded some few insights which, even with the best will in the world, I am quite unable to transfer to anybody else.

    Notwithstanding, the process of trying to live meditatively informs and illuminates my daily experience with a significance which was lacking when I limited my enquiry to the objective realm.

    Is your daily experience entirely satisfactory to you in each and every moment? All I mean to say is that strategies exist whereby your subjective life can be gradually transformed towards wider, deeper and more general contentment.

    Indeed it seems to me that I have met at least one person whose sanity really is absolute and imperturbable, and although I have no definitive objective evidence to support this contention, my subjective observations characterize experiences which are rather reproducibly correlated with the extent of my contact with this individual. In effect, I have access to subjective evidence.

    I cannot say whether such teachers/masters/gurus are necessary in any sense, but I am greatly encouraged by having met him. I am talking about Osho, surely the most effective critic of jainism who has ever lived. I wonder why you don’t mention him – perhaps because he is inconveniently “enlightened”?

    * So far as my own personal subjective experience is concerned, though many accounts speak of ultimate enlightenment as being a singular phenomenon, the essence of which is experienced in exactly the same way by all those who attain to it.

    @Avicenna: it is rather more likely that hinduism is an offshoot of jainism.

  • TychaBrahe

    I’ll be honest with you; I don’t really care what people believe so long as those beliefs don’t impact others.

    If you want to be a Christian, but you stop with the homophobia, sexism, and anti-science-ism, have at it. If believing that there’s some benevolent (despite all the stories) entity in the sky that mated with a human to produce a child who was sacrificed so that you can go to heaven makes you happy, feel free.

    There are all kinds of people who believe all kinds of nonsense. Some people believe it matters who wins American Idol or what happens on Glee this week or who wins the Stanley Cup. Some people believe that winning an annual sports victory is so important that they are willing to torch cars over the outcome, which rarely happens after Sunday’s service down at the Lutheran church. Which irrational belief is more harmful?

  • Erp

    I’d be curious to see a similar sceptical viewpoint on modern non-Evangelical Quakerism. I grew up in it, which means partly that it’s hard for me to see flaws. Other than the belief in the supernatural, of course.

    The problem there is that there are modern non-Evangelical Quakers who are out non-theists (though not without controversy). http://www.nontheistfriends.org/

    I can see more problems in historical Quakers. The old policies of birthright Quakers and of disowning people for things like marrying outside the faith (or bankruptcy). It took a while for women to become fully equal members (in at least participating in the same yearly meeting as men) though they had from the beginning more equality than in most other religions.

  • Lee

    I think karma is a quite toxic belief because it blames victims for things like being born blind, or going through traumatic events like molestation. I hate that this idea is spreading around the US through the New Age movement.

  • Well well well

    Thank you for this entry, Richard. I think western atheists should just stop cuddling the Eastern religions – they are no more further from bullshit than Western religions are.

  • http://or-mabinogi.livejournal.com/ Evan

    My job is to design fiberglass ornamentation for buildings, like cornice, columns, domes, cupolas, etc, etc, etc. A large part of the designs I have to do are for religious institutions. I actually like working on the shikhars and ghummats for Hindu and Jain temples because their large sizes, complexity, and ornateness are an enjoyable puzzle.

    Normally I only do the drawings and be done with it, but one time I was instructed to attend an installation of a shikhar at a local Jain temple (I think it was dedicated to Shiva-Vishnu but I’ve done so many they all sort of blur together) in order to witness any issues the design my have had to make installations easier. The temple was eager to get the installation done because they were having a grand opening that weekend and so while it was still being put up it needed to be blessed by the Holy man. (Was it a blessing? What are the holy men called? Gurus?)

    It was strange watching this man drive up in a pick up truck, in full holy robes, climb into the passenger box and have the crane lift him to the top where he could lay hands on the kalasha and mumble his chants.

    My Eastern Orthodox employers, while still thinking Jains and Hindus are weird and wrong, were relieved this religious dedication was made on time. I just thought it was a bizarre thing to be concerned about. I mean, it was something I just drew up and it was made out of fiberglass. There was nothing holy about it.

  • holeydood3

    Jains believe that they can accumulate and shed karma and this impacts their future…

    Jainism is the prequel to reddit, albeit without the specific reddit hive-mind.

  • GlenG

    @Andrew – karma is not really blaming the victim. It is a philosophy that motivates people to be good to each other. The result is actually quite elegant, justice in an unjust world.

    Similarly reincarnation may not be proven but it has not been disproven either.

    As an atheist I don’t really find a problem with either one of these theories. Reincarnation and Karma may or may not exist but they do provide a world view that inspires many to better behavior without much downside.

  • keystothekid

    @GlenG I think the problem most of us have with karma is that it hasn’t been proven. That’s mostly what makes us all nonbelievers. Sure, you might argue that karma and reincarnation persuade people to be better but shouldn’t we bring up the “at what cost” argument?

    It might be naive of me but I still believe in being a good person for the sake of the common good, not so it will personally benefit me in the ‘next life.’ I realize that it takes more than that to motivate some people but I’d liken the idea of Karma to the idea surrounding marijuana. Once you cross through the gateway of accepting Karma as truth, what other woo comes next?

  • http://a-million-gods.blogspot.com/ Avicenna

    @Vijen – No, Hinduism is the original faith. It is a lot older than Jainism considering a lot of proto hindu deities are present in the Indus Valley Civilisation (such as the Rudra). Hinduism is the oldest continuous mainstream religion and has artefacts showing it’s gods that date back to roughly 3000 BC (A full 2000 years older than Jainism and Buddhism). There is no solid start date since a lot of it’s texts refer to earlier texts that are no longer around simply due to time. Most people don’t quite realise that the Indus Valley Civilisations are quite spectacular in their own (The first Planned Cities indicating the people had built cities before these, organised neighbourhoods, Flood defences, Sewage and separate toilets, Socialised food and a council rather than a king). The place was pretty nifty in all honesty.

    The history of Mahavira is also well known (founder of jainism) and he specifically mentions that Jainism is a rebellion against the excess of Hinduism. Think of it as a form of protestantism except with less warfare. Hindus were quite open in what people were allowed to believe and a lot of Jains simply became “more and more Hindu till you couldn’t tell the difference anymore”. Hinduism in it’s current form is a combination of the Indus valley beliefs (the triple gods of Brahma/Vishnu/Shiva and their goddesses of Saraswati/Lakshmi/Uma). While the aryans were nature worshippers. The “3000 gods” motif is from the aryans whose gods were neatly slotted above the Indus valley gods. In time these 6 gods came to the forefront again.

  • Claudio I

    Pre-boiled water? Killing insects is bad, but water-borne bacteria is fair game to be boiled alive? I just lost the little respect I had for that religion.

  • http://www.tech-o-potamus.blogspot.com hipopotamo

    This is quite interesting from a philosophical point of view.

    You see, I believe reincarnation is a possibility, based on conservation of matter/energy. I also believe it would be a random process (so no better, more illuminated future lifes, you could be a hamster in your next one even if you have been a saint in this one)

    Karma, of course, would add some order to it, maybe an order that follows well established natural laws.

    So yes, I’m an skeptic, but I allow myself to ruminate about karma, reincarnation and aliens. What is the difference? Well, I don’t live my life waiting for the aliens to come, or trying to accumulate good karma in the odd possibility that I will reincarnate as the next Brad Pitt =P
    You see, ruminating about the existence of something is fine if you keep in mind the little detail of evidence, isn’t it?

    Still, I think ideas like karma can and should be separated from religion, where they cannot be used to manipulate people’s behavior.

    My two cents, anyway

    The esoteric Hippo

  • JD

    Vijen, is the religion necessary to meditate?

    It seems like you feel the need to believe in things that can’t be proven, or disproven, for that matter. Then how do you know they’re true? Someone told you these things, how did they decide they’re true and worth passing on?

  • http://a-million-gods.blogspot.com/ Avicenna

    Claudio – In their defence they didn’t know about bacteria 3000 years ago but figured out you don’t get sick if you drink boiled water… It’s pretty smart.

  • Edger Alien Poe

    Jains support being free of materialism

    In a discussion like this, you ought to be forward about which definition of “materialism” you are using.

  • Yakamoz

    Those beliefs sound like something out of Scientology. But Jains take them very seriously.

    Scientologists also take their beliefs very seriously. I know, I was raised by a couple.

    What if…attaining nirvana” manifests simply as an ability to behave with sanity in a variety of situations @vijen

    THAT sounds like something outta scientology! It’s the world’s only cure for insanity and criminality, or so it claims.

  • Charon

    The problem there is that there are modern non-Evangelical Quakers who are out non-theists

    Yup. My dad was the assistant clerk of our meeting for a while, and also an atheist… liberal Quakerism seems like just about the best religion you can have, in a large part because it’s not clear to me that it’s really a religion. More a group of people with some common goals, who believe various random things (I’ve met Quakers who are Buddhist, atheist, Christian, Spinozan…).

    I do think it’s impressive that the AFSC (American Friends Service Committee) had the balls to support civil rights cases that even the ACLU wouldn’t touch (e.g., free speech during the 1950′s Commie scare).

    That said, silent meeting is awfully boring for a kid, and I’m happy my parents let me go to the library instead :)

  • Yakamoz

    @GlenG karma is not really blaming the victim. It is a philosophy that motivates people to be good to each other. The result is actually quite elegant, justice in an unjust world.

    Bullshit. The caste system shows how the idea of karma blames the victim and is actually the opposite of ‘elegant justice in an unjust world. It’s the Hindu version of the curse of Ham.

  • Michael S

    How do Jains reconcile germ theory with not killing anything?

    (Hemant says: My understanding is you can sacrifice a few germs in order to save more in the long run.)

  • MH

    No onion rings, french fries, or a cold beer to drink with them sounds like a punishment to me.

  • Hermes

    > * Jainism encourages an 8-day-long (or worse), unhealthy fasting during the holy time of the year. During the fast, you may only consume water that’s been pre-boiled.

    > * The Jain rules regarding a vegetarian diet seem like they’re made up on the spot. Eggs are bad, but milk is ok. Potatoes and other food from the ground are bad, but there are exceptions depending on the day. Alcohol is forbidden, but young Jains go to bars all the time. The rules make hypocrisy rampant… but almost unavoidable.

    Reminds me of the Polynesian taboo cultures. The type of food, the day or time, and who is eating what food are a really big deal.

    FWIW: Till the Christian missionaries came, they did not have many hangups over sex, though. It was mainly focused on food.

  • http://eternalbookshelf.wordpress.com Sharmin

    Thanks for writing this, Hemant. I don’t know much about Jainism, but I’m very curious to find out more.

    Also, I love this line:

    This is why I never had a desire for you to set me up with a “nice Jain girl.”

  • Nemo

    I mean, it was something I just drew up and it was made out of fiberglass. There was nothing holy about it.

    Duh. That’s why he had to bless it — so there would be something holy about it. Don’t you see, the magical incantation is the most important part of the whole construction process.

  • http://empiricalmystic.blogspot.com/ Vijen

    @Avicenna:

    The evidence for religious continuity between modern hinduism and the Indus valley is thin – the “horned god” images do resemble siva, but perhaps siva was a jain god at the time. Unless the Indus valley script is deciphered it is impossible to know. You seem unaware that buddhism was dominant in India, indeed across the whole of Asia, for more than a millenium, and that hinduism as currently practiced was largely invented by Adi Shankara (probably in the 8th century).

    Mahavir was the 24th tirthankara, not the founder of jainism, and although the earlier ones are described in mythological terms, Parshva, the 23rd, is a historical figure from 3 centuries earlier, and seems to have been known throughout India (he also has a Tamil name), so it is at least plausible that the line is very ancient.

    My point, really, was that attaching modern labels to very early belief systems is moot – except for the political agenda of the BJP.

    @JD

    I don’t have a religion, and my beliefs are contingently frangible. Enlightened beings do exist, I speak from my own experience – more here.

    @Yakamoz

    There is now abundant evidence that meditative practice correlates with sanity. My characterization of enlightenment was dramatically understated. Definitely no alien lizards involved.

  • Z

    I don’t get it. I am an atheist, but i do not understand why so many atheists are against religion. There is nothing wrong with religion so long as it is a free choice and so long as it does not affect people who have not made the same choice. The fact that the Jainist chants does not in anyway diminish the research they have done, nor does the research affect their belief. So what if they are wrong, if they are able to find comfort in their lives then more power to them. The truth kinda sucks when you think about it.

  • http://www.facebook.com/B18Ch1ck Ami Momaiya

    I enjoyed this post! I was raised in a Jain family, too. I still remember the day when I was at the temple and somebody was preaching to the youth about how “Jains support being free of materialism.” I then asked why the temple parking lot looked like a Lexus dealership… It’s hard to be a child raised in a Jain family, as well as an inquisitive mind. You’re likely to call people out at, and get kicked out of, the temple.

  • Abhishekjain19

    Important Message for Mr. Hemant Mehta

    I think Mr. Hemant Mehta…..you are still living in a superflous world
    with superficial knowledge…………….and thats why you would never
    be able to understand….what these timeless principles of jainism and
    hinduism stands for….!!! As it is eternally mentioned in Bhagwad Gita
    by Krishna……An ignorant man who is immersed in this material world
    full of desires would never be able to understand the ultimate
    truth…the reason for his inability to understand the truth lies in his
    incapability to go beyond his senses and Mind…….Mr. Hemant
    Mehta…..please leave your ignorance aside and start imbibing timeless
    lessons from Jainism & Bhagwad Gita…!!

  • fracklecrackle

    Just ran across this article after looking into Jainism for possibly 5 mins. Two things immediately jumped out at me , and you didn’t touch on either of them.  Will copy and paste from where I wrote it in my Delicious Bookmark description .. 

    They’re ‘non violent’ to an extreme. An animal or human being can be suffering dreadfully and they think it’s right to just watch them suffer. That’s cruelty. 
    It’s ‘harm by omission’ – like ‘lying by omission’. 

    Their ‘non attachment’ rule immediately brought to mind people who remain distant, neutral, never forming bonds or love. Because how can one have either without some form of attachment? A devout Jain must be equivalent to an emotionally void robot. Going as far as to wear cloth over their mouths so to not accidentally swallow a gnat and at the same time watching on as something suffers in agony.  

    They are neither cold nor hot – but luke warm.  Passion-less. 

  • Jai

    What Jains themselves believe is not bull****. It’s about how you perceive it! I’ve grown up with Jainism being my faith and religion. I may be very young, and as a young Jain I could well have been misguided by the philosophy of the religion. But even though, as scientists we can’t go against what others such as Darwin or Galileo say, because who would believe us? We are part of a small sect in the world’s population.
    You are right in saying that there aren’t many differences between Hindu’s and Jain’s, the principal’s are the same and we share some of the demi gods. But we are more philosophical, we have a deeper meaning to our words. No – one can argue to the fact that Jainism is more about spiritual guidance for a better life. Hindus are more concerned with the religious side of things of offerings to their deities. Jain’s are formidably the most diverse of religions.
    I teach Jainism to young children, you cannot make assumptions about a religion that you know so little about. There may be riffs between the different casts in Jainism, but what is important is that we learn and preach the same things. 
    You say that we have no right t be known as Atheist, but that is up to the individual mind. I follow the law of Jainism and incorporate them with my life, but I still believe in no true form of God. The Thirthankars that I follow are nothing short of messengers or profits, I pray to them and learn from their teachings solely for the purpose of enlightenment. It is true that monks and nuns are not treated in the same way and some are bound to get hurt. It is the old tradition, but as youth it can be changed significantly.
    In terms of Paryushana, it is up to the individual. You have no right to talk in a way that a person ‘has’ to fast. I don’t always fast, but I do it with the purpose of becoming more closer to achieving great things in life which is something I am unfortunately unable to put into words as it in my own interpretation.
    Not every Jain is strict. It is up to the individual. I have been brought up into a religious family, however I have family members that drink alcohol.
    So all I have to say is, I completely disagree with what you say, but I say it as an individual, not for all Jains to be considered in what I have written.

  • Akshay

    @77576b2e5fa62e0a4002a4c30b20c87f:disqus  Before boiling the water, the water is cleaned with a cloth and those micro organism included in that water are flooded/moved by water… Clove is kept in water that stops more reproduction of such micro organisms and then the water is boiled and then again filtered and is consumable for 24 hours after which the micro organism start reproducing in it…. Jainism believe to minimize the loss to any living being hence, a potato that contains infinite no. of micro-organism is not allowed. Well, no one knows the truth and this Mr. Mehta being a jain when he cannot even type Jainism as Jainism, he can’t even think what it preaches… and Why…???

    Do you know why we don’t believe in gods/creators… because jainism says that each living being has a power to become god and hence we worship human beings who attained salvation by removing all 8 karmas and hence we believe in truth, non-violence, celibacy(it means to have relation with only one or none, if you have relation with any one that he/she must be your husband/wife), non-stealing, no extra attachment(It means what you have is sufficient, if you want more then hold that much which is needed and leave rest useless like If i have food to eat, then why to make my house a warehouse/godown. I have 100 clothes and I don’t need more then leave the attachment of that more, but it does not mean that you must misinterpret it). Jainism teaches to leave ego, cruelty, charlatanism, greed. It teaches to think that each living organism is like you is equal to you whether he/she is black or white, tall or short, intelligent or daft. Because each one has a right to live so, let each one live with happiness, perfection, self-esteem, respect, pleasure, power, wisdom…..

    But I think People like Mr. Mehta and those who couldn’t accept good for all … cannot understand the real truth…. if you wanna know more email me m.akshaypatni@gmail.com

  • Guest

    Please think using your brains, not your egos.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000523474067 Joey Ray

    Your less fanboyish than most religious fan boys, I like you.

  • http://108.80.56.115/theEnd/ fuzzywzhe

    I’m an atheist, but I don’t see anything much wrong with the beliefs you’ve pointed out in Jainism.

    I was raised Catholic.  Catholics had an Inquisition that wiped out a fair number of religions, Christians enslaved blacks, the Christians of England had an opium war against China because they wanted to pay for goods and services from China in opium rather than gold and silver, if you consider the US a Christian nation it’s been continually at war with Islam since at least 1953 when it overthrew the Iranian Democracy to steal oil…

    Jainism might have some crazy ideas and might encourage people to do the right thing for the wrong reasons – but at least it encourages people to do the right thing or seems to.

    Abrahamic religions seem to be inherently violent to me.  Look at Israel and it’s intense conflict wit the indigenous people of that area.  Islamic societies are practically brual in many areas.  Christian societies can be as primitive and as barbaric as any Islamic society.  Why complain about Jainism?  I think you ought to pay attention to results.

    I don’t know of any conflicts the Jains have been in, any war, any cultural strife, etc.  Sure they may have what your typical person considers to be crazy ideas, but those ideas don’t seem to generate violence.

  • Jain Follower!

    Hello, I am a born jain following many of the code of conducts tied in with Jainsim. You wrote a great article and I am very glad that your standing up for you beliefs. I being a Jain cannot tell you your beliefs are wrong of course because the sanskrit word Ahimsa (Non-Violence) keeps me from doing so, but let me explain many occidental religions that share the same beliefs of Jainism. The first argument you propose is the cycle of reincarnation being fiction and I myself cannot  confirm its truthfulness because all of the Homo-sapiens don’t know the existences of a supernatural belief for sure. If you think reincarnation is an extreme belief Christians believe a true follower of Jesus can be forgiven for a sin such as death. That sounds like a real fair god to me and this is just giving a ticket for his followers to commit grave sins. Now the great fair religion of jainism explains that if you hurt someone karma will shove a boot up your ass no matter what god you believe in. A better way to look at it is Karma is preventing people from commiting such deeds and states that even if your are a Jain your will be punished for your deeds. Karma keeps people from doing bad deeds and giving up your material possession blows greed out the water and the battle for resources out. Many have died in the name of Christianity because of they believe they will be awarded. Jainism says you can not force you belief s on other and it is considered a bad deed. You talk about young Jains drinking, don’t judge a religion by its followers. I am, so glad Jainism doesn’t give me permission to kill in order to convert like the millions of Native American and everywhere Christians have stepped foot. I am so glad my religion doesn’t promote drinking in my churches and doesn’t say god will forgive me for everything bad I did.

  • Sam

    I grew up as a Jain. I had many questions with regards to the everyday rules and regulations of the religion. Two points:

    1. Read the theory behind the religion.
    2. Don’t make the mistake of interpreting Jainism through Jains.

    Jainism is a very very logical religion. It is probably one of the most complete philosophies that has ever existed. IMO it is less of a religion and more of a spirituality. Irrespective of what Jains might tell you, the religion never asks you to BELIEVE or have FAITH. It has reasons for everything. It has its own metaphysics         (something I tried to understand but realized that I am not prepared for such high level of thought).

    My two cents on the religion:

    The base of the religion is MEDITATION, the reason why the religion encourages limited food intake (eat to live, dont live to eat; Jainism never encourages illogical starvation, although starvation has crept into contemporary Jain ideals), balance of mind, non-violence etc. is to enable your body to MEDITATE at the highest state in any given condition (health, sickness, hunger, temperature, pain).

    Try to meditate fora  meager 15 seconds. You will be bombarded by thoughts like: I’m hungry, what will I eat tonite?…I feel itchy……Its cold in here….I hate Sid, he’s an ass……blah blah blah. Jainism trains your body to control your thoughts and emotions, and helps you meditate.

    Just remember, the base of the religion is MEDITATION. Try to understand how Jain practices help achieve a deep state of meditation and a lot of your questions will be answered.

  • Guest

    I failed to find the “friendly” component of this article. I’m no Jain, but I felt insulted by your essay. I think you might take a page from the Jains and learn to accept differences instead of attacking and mocking them. There are many things that you mentioned that suggest to me that, despite your upbringing, you have only a superficial understanding of Jainism.

    As an athiest, you are on pretty weak ground yourself. Agnostics I can apprecaite as a rational response to elements of religions or philosophies that cannot by definition be proven. In my experience, athiests fall into the trap of asserting what cannot be known, just as many of the religious believers that they criticize. To say there is no god, etc., is also unprovable. What can logically be stated with certainty is that some things are unknowable at least to the cognative mind.

    So often atheists let the cat out of the bag by referencing the contradictory behaviors of minority adherants, venting personal objections to their specific experience and then applying it generally to a religion or all religious, or focusing on the controversies of the few, rather than the genuine good done by the many. This kind of reaction in any form is a simple psychological mechanism designed to boost pride and self image at the expense of putting down others.

    Further, I’ll suggest to you that experiential religions, such as Jainism, Buddhism, Daoism, and others, require time, devotion, and work, but can result in that person’s sense of an improved or perfected life. Many do believe to attain high levels of spiritual awareness and perhaps even release from the bonds of mundane life. Just because you personally haven’t done this work and experienced that kind of growth doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

    Were I to make a suggestion, I’d say that you might want to discuss this article with your parents. I’d be surprised if they wouldn’t hear you out and try to find a common ground with you. The Jains are, after all, well known for doing just that.

    I hope you find some peace.

  • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/ Hemant Mehta

    Feel free to provide evidence for karma, heaven, hell, reincarnation, etc.
    I’ll wait here while you do that.

  • Guest

    Again, your antagonism makes me sad. I could suggest that you prove that they don’t exist. Or prove that those that do have experiences that support this information (mystics, gurus, experiential religious adherants) are not genuine in their experience.

    But instead I will just wish you find peace and a respectful outlook towards your fellow man.

  • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/ Hemant Mehta

    In other words, let’s just believe what “mystic” people with no credible evidence have said. No thanks. Plenty of harm has occurred using that line of thought. I’ve grown out of that. Hope you do one day, too.

  • Guest

    I never said that anyone should believe the words of another and make them their own without exploration–both intellectual and experiential. I only suggested that I wouldn’t doubt their experiences out of hand.

    Really, my perspective is to believe in my own experience. If I am curious, I explore. I don’t take anyone’s word for it. I live an ever improving life based on my religious beliefs, as well as many other activities and endeavors.

    As for harm done, I don’t argue against anything that gives a large number of people purpose, contentment, and joy. I think that can be harmful. I just respect their right to believe and move on if I don’t agree–and lement the harm people may do for whatever reason. I respect your right to have your beliefs and I appreciate the opportunity to participate in this discussion.

    Forgive me if I am reading too much into the tone of your responses, but it seems that I’ve upset you. I’m sorry if this is so. I hope you will forgive me this.

    And as always, I genuinely wish you peace.

  • jazzzzzz

    you basically said what i was going to say. thank you for representing mu ideas :-D

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Don-Roche/553190629 Don Roche

    Odd that you dont understand the jainism diet.

  • Writer is a dubmass

    Dude You’re A fucking dumbass. That’s all I have to say. Do your Jain parents know you’re typing this up in your little room? Your mom should of dropped you as a baby for thinkin you were born into that family as just a coincidence.

  • Fuccanathiest

    If jainism didn’t believe strongly in Karma, writer of the website would have already been dropped as a baby his Jain parents. Feel free to off yourself any time. I’m gonna save a snapshot of my comment on your page and see if you delete it.

  • Anonymous

    I’M ALSO A JAIN.BEING RAISED UP IN A JAIN FAMILY DOESN’T GIVE YOU THE RIGHT TO SPEAK NONSENSE ABOUT IT.I’M A 6 YEAR OLD KID BUT STILL I HAVE RESPECT AND WELL ASK ANY JAIN MONK TO EXPLAIN YOU THE UNIVERSE WITH THE VIEWS OF JAINISM AND THE ULTIMATE TRUTH.THE WHOLE WORLD WITH SCIENCE AGREES WITH JAINISM-THE WHOLE WORLD !

        WELL I JUST WANNA TELL U DON’T INSULT MY RELIGION

  • Anonymous

    I’M ALSO A JAIN.BEING RAISED UP IN A JAIN FAMILY DOESN’T GIVE YOU THE RIGHT TO SPEAK NONSENSE ABOUT IT.I’M A 6 YEAR OLD KID BUT STILL I HAVE RESPECT AND WELL ASK ANY JAIN MONK TO EXPLAIN YOU THE UNIVERSE WITH THE VIEWS OF JAINISM AND THE ULTIMATE TRUTH.THE WHOLE WORLD WITH SCIENCE AGREES WITH JAINISM-THE WHOLE WORLD !

        WELL I JUST WANNA TELL U DON’T INSULT MY RELIGION

  • Anonymous

    I’M ALSO A JAIN.BEING RAISED UP IN A JAIN FAMILY DOESN’T GIVE YOU THE RIGHT TO SPEAK NONSENSE ABOUT IT.I’M A 6 YEAR OLD KID BUT STILL I HAVE RESPECT AND WELL ASK ANY JAIN MONK TO EXPLAIN YOU THE UNIVERSE WITH THE VIEWS OF JAINISM AND THE ULTIMATE TRUTH.THE WHOLE WORLD WITH SCIENCE AGREES WITH JAINISM-THE WHOLE WORLD !

        WELL I JUST WANNA TELL U DON’T INSULT MY RELIGION

  • rakesh

    why is someone born blind ,some1 rich some1 poor ? some understand easily ,some cannot . some are talented ,some are smart ,some with diseases ,some healthy? can u explain ? can u see sound ,emotion,love . where is love . where is it located scientifically . prove me .some things have to be felt . jainism is something which is so sacred and deep that very highly talented people also cannot understand it . but for u i can say there is nothing that it says is bad for the world

  • rakesh

    in water the bacteria continiously multiplies . when we boil we put an end to the multiplication . thus saving the future increase of killing of the microbes . 
    now scientifically also it is proved that boiling the water is very beneficial ti health .

  • rakesh

    see hemant . you are asking questions on jainism which are 10th std . but u r not even educated on jainism at toddler level . Anyway i must not use such words because jainism is so so….pure . u can never understand what the people are trying to explain u here  ,because u have made up u r mind to argue and find fault . 

  • rakesh

    anyway i must share some knowledge with u at toddler level .
    this world is full of misery .birth is attended by death , youth by decay, fortune by misfortune .thus everything in this world is momentary . Dont ever assume that what will happen to the world if you are not here . the glamour and glitz of the world shall remain the same .There will be thousand of parties ,there will be unlimited entertainment in the world forever .BUT oneday the world will search u in these parties but u will not be there . (everyone has to die one day ).  most powerful armies , the modern science with the latest technology ,the powerful leaders of the world cannot overpower death , oldage,sickness . When u r in pain ,even though u r friends and family might boost you but u will only have to suffer the pain yourself . this body is not u r companion forever . dont mistake this  birth as u r first birth . you have been born innumerable times. NOW U WILL BE jumpimg  FROM U R SEAT  TO ARGUE WITH ME BUT WAIT JUST READON .  
    jainism is all about soul upliftment. How to free the soul from all the bondages ? the human body is also a bondage to soul. Non attachment / non possessiveness /No desire  are all leading the soul to be free from the material world . The car which u love the most and are dying for will after a few years become an outdated model which u would not even like to drive . these are all passing phases . The soul is eternal . it is yours. if you do good u will enjoy the good deeds . But jainism is all about freeing oneself from these good and bad . its aim is moksha where is there is nobirth ,death ,hunger ,oldage , sickness  and desire . there is infinite peace ,bliss .According to jainism if you have good karmas then u will be in joy (but that is also obstructing you from going to moksha which is  the ultimate aim). Any form of violence (minutest) also ostructs u r journey to moksha . So jainism is so strict . but if your aim is not moksha then u are free to follow at the best possible level that u can , But for moksha there is no compromise . that is why the cloth on nose , the boiling of water which sounds silly to the modern world is practically followed by jains . and for the lay jain practically moksha is not the aim, lay jain cannot follow such a strict conduct followed by monks. a layjain also tries to improve his level to that of a monk . Posshro ,updhyam ,oly are all trying to live like a monk giving up on the material world by the lay jain .Jainism is very practical, most jains dont understand the religion themselves . to end i will say jainism tells u not to waste any resource,use as miminum as u need . dont kill any living beings  . let and let live . do not cheat ,steal ,indulge in sexual activities ( for the layman restricted to wife), so all these things are taught . meditation is very very important because the power and speed of mind is very fast . you can develop negative karmas in huge qty by thinking negative and mediatation is all abt controlling the mind .see all these will lead you towards moksha . but for the world will sound silly and for you the word moksha will sound funny as to which ticket on an airline will reach there hahah
    sarv mangalaye mangalyam sarv kalyanan karanam pradhanam sarv dharmanam jainam jayanti shasham 
    truth will conquer 

  • rakesh

     I am so glad my religion doesn’t promote drinking in my churches and doesn’t say god will forgive me for everything bad I did.
    SUPERB .AWESOME . JAI JINENDRA MAY WE FOLLOW THE PATH SHOWN BY THE GREAT JINA

  • rakesh

    Mr.Hemant knows that all jain girls are nice. That is because the religion itself is so nice.

  • ashish

    I am  from jain family. Todays jainism is very different from jainism taught by mahavira. 2500 years is long time to change orignal form of any religion. Every jain monk has their own interpretation of what mahavira said. That is why we have so many jain sects. There are may sub sects. This is true with all religions in the world. I am not criticizing only jainism. 
    after many years, we find that their is dispute between two monks on the principles of religion. then there are their own followers. In this way their are sub sects. Now one sect let say shwetamber jain tera panth they think theirs is the only way to nirvana. All other roads will lead you to hell. Digamber jain kanaji swami sect will believe in some other way to reach nirvana. now tell me who is right. both can not be right. So what lay man like us do. how do we know what is the mahavira way of jainism. If we make mistake we will go to hell. How are you sure that during mahavira time eating meat of  the anima l that was dead by natural way was not violence or hinsa. There are some very ancient jaina texts if we converty their meaning literaly means monks can eat meat and fish  if they have the reason to believe that meal was not prepared for them purposefully. Somebody down the line does not interpret this scripture literaly they say that word meat and fish denote pulp part of some vegitable. No who is right we dont know. So If all the todays  sects shwetambera digambera and many sub sects have interpreted orignal mahavira idea of jainism we all sure will go to hell. This is true for all other religions of the world.

  • Pratik

     Jai Jinendra. We as Jains accept all sorts of criticism from young age.
    The best part of being one is we don’t get flamed because of our non
    violent nature. It itself provides a healthy proof regarding our core
    values and principles. By following our principles we can be sure  the
    world will always look at us with amazement. Jains are compassionate
    towards every living thing in this planet. Therefore we can be rest
    assured there would be less crimes, wars. What makes us so? It’s the
    belief of the karma, reincarnation, heaven and hell etc etc etc. No Jain god cares whether you chose to remain one or chose your own path. Even the basic idea is
    that “No other being in this universe can help you or harm you”. You do
    good, you attract good karma, you do bad, bad karma gets attracted to
    you. It is the laws of the universe. Just because you cant see gravity
    doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. It was unknown to the world before Newton
    discovered it. Karma is something similar. The universe itself governs all the laws. At least our gods don’t say us that I created the universe. They don’t say we will be punished or judged by them. They have attained their enlightenment. The good hearts of the gods wrote about our principles guiding us on their path. It’s our choice what we wish to do.
    They don’t boast of themselves, don’t have ego, don’t have jealousy,
    don’t have pride, they are free from all the desires and passions.

    Science cannot answer many questions.

    Stephen Hawking proposed a description of the Universe in its entirety, viewed
    as a self-contained entity, with no reference to anything that might
    have come before it. The
    description is timeless, in the sense that one set of equations
    delineates the Universe for all time. As one looks to earlier and
    earlier times, one finds that the model Universe is not eternal, but
    there is no creation
    event either. In Hawking’s words, the Universe “would neither be created
    nor destroyed. It would just BE.” 

    That’s exactly what Jainism tells us.

    What science can’t answer is: What happens after death. It’s the same
    thing you cannot answer. You wouldn’t exist to answer that question
    since you are an atheist and since you don’t believe in reincarnation.
    However we Jains can always say, we will be reborn. So we are happy to
    know that we will be born again. And you can sit and think what will
    happen to you after death.

    As far as atheism is concerned. Since you are not a follower of any
    religion or any god. You can be a menace to the society. As you don’t
    fear karma, hell, reincarnation, you can do things which you like as per
    your will. However in that process you might end up doing something
    against the laws of the land causing you to land in jail or face
    punishment. We Jains with the fear of karma and reincarnation would not
    think to cause harm allowing us to live in peace with fellow beings and
    betterment of the society.
    :)

  • Parth

     Lol, agreed. I remember my local Jain community built a massive temple and I always thought it was ironic how they were willing to spend so much on building a nice temple when that money could be used to do something better

    also, our parking lot looked like a BMW dealership, and most of the Jain families have huge mansions…I never liked their hypocrisy

  • Parth

     Actually, it’s more of trying to avoid doing unnecessary harm: germs exist and we’re inevitably going to kill them. On the other hand, killing a cow is something you can avoid very easily

    Also, as for the inconsistency between milk and eggs: remember that 2000 years ago chickens roamed around pretty freely, so there was no way to tell if an egg were fertilized (unlike in modern battery farms). Milk obviously does not contain any life, so that’s why milk was OK but eggs weren’t.

    Note, I was brought up Jain and so I’m aware of the arguments Jainism uses in term of germs, milk, eggs etc. Most of them I find to have a logical reasoning (or at least historically). But I am an atheist as I don’t believe in hell, reincarnation and the other superstitions Jainism proclaims

  • Parth

     why is someone born blind? probably because of a defect that occured when the baby was still developing

    why are some people born rich? Hmm, because their dad impregnated their mom and the parents happened to be rich

    why do some understand more easily than other? a combination of genetics and environment

    why are some talented and some smart? once again, a combination of genetics and environment

    Can we see sound? By definition, sound is something you can hear (propagation in air -> air particles that vibrate in resonance) and not something you can see (light propagation). Your question is quite silly, eyes see electromagnetic waves, sound is not electromagnetic so how could eyes see sound then?

    Emotion and love can actually be explained scientifically, through pheromones, etc. We might not have a perfect understanding yet, but neuroscience is getting really close. Check out wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotion

  • Parth

    Sigh, I think you completely misunderstood Hemant. A lot of things you’ve said pertaining to the world (for example The car which u love the most and are dying for will after a few years
    become an outdated model which u would not even like to drive) are quite true. And Jainism does have admirable principles relating to non-violence, non-materialism etc., which Hemant said as well.

    But that’s not what he’s arguing about. He’s arguing about hells, karma, reincarnation etc: things which have no scientific backing.

    As for being educated in Jainism: I’ve gone to pathshala as a child since I was six years old. I know my Jainism. I’ve done athai.

    But you know, I was a pretty devout Jain, but I started realizing that despite all the amazing principles of non-violence etc, the superstitious components of Jainism have no merit.

    We can explain what love is, can you explain where karma comes from? Where is the soul? We’ve never found any evidence that a soul exists.

    Do we have proof karma doesn’t exist or reincarnations don’t happen? No, we don’t. But we also don’t have proof pink unicorns exist. Does that mean it’s OK for a person to believe in a pink unicorn? In day to day life, when someone doesn’t have proof of something we don’t believe them (for example my parents might want to see proof of where I spend my money because otherwise they won’t believe me). So then why should we believe in karma and not Jesus, why in Allah and not in reincarnation? Rather we should be rational and apply our day-to-day logic to religion and reject all claims that have no proof.

    People might argue, what’s the harm in Jainism. After all, Jains aren’t doing any harm, right? I would argue that’s not true. Jainism, like any other religion, forces people to stop thinking critically. Why do so many Jains amass such fortunes, drive such nice cars and own large houses while we supposedly claim to be non-materialistic. Why do so many Jains wear leather? Why do so many Jains have corrupt business practices (don’t believe me? Check out the diamond market in Mumbai when the Indian Tax Department is doing random raids. The entire place is shut down because everyone is avoiding taxes). Why do Jains drink milk when cows (especially in the US) are treated so cruelly?

    I can give so many more examples of where Jains have failed to live up to the tenets of Jainism.

    So
    1. You don’t have proof of karma, reincarnation, moksha, etc.
    2. In practice, Jains don’t even follow the tenets

    The only thing you have going for you is that you got the values of non-violence and non-materialism right. Too bad everything didn’t work out.

  • Parth

     Flawed argument and especially against Hemant. Hemant is the chair of Foundation Beyond Belief, a humanitarian organization (i.e. they promote charity). The fact you think people without belief are bad people is completely wrong. You have no proof for it (show me an instance where someone said they didn’t believe in God and proceeded to commit crimes). I can definitely show you several cases where people said they believed in God and decided to commit crimes in his name.

    As for “Jains are compassionate towards every living thing in this planet. Therefore we can be rest assured there would be less crimes, wars. What makes us so? It’s the
    belief of the karma, reincarnation, heaven and hell etc etc etc.”

    Please, have you met most Jains? They treat their servants like shit. I’ll admit most Indians though, but clearly Jains are not exactly compassionate towards every living thing. So many Jains wear leather, so many of them have shady business ethics.

    I grew up in a Jain community that mainly deals with diamonds. I guarantee you so many of my community members dealt in blood diamonds, which indirectly lead to war and countless deaths in Africa. We have far more blood on our hands than we care to admit.

    Please do not tell me Jains are good people who are compassionate towards every living thing. I will give you countless of examples proving the opposite point

    If people need hell, reincarnation etc to be good, they really are not genuinely good people, rather they are just afraid to do evil. That’s sad, you’re not being a genuinely good person, you just don’t want to be punished in the same fashion that a child does his homework not because he wants to but because he doesn’t want to get scolded at by his teacher. At least most atheists I know want to do good, not because of any rewards or punishments, but simply because it’s the right thing to do…at least they’re actually good people.

  • John2find

    Here are my explanation for your bullshit (and I committed a sin here):

    1.Time cycle is all fiction: How did Universe evolved. BIG BANG.
    how did Big bang occurred ? some sort of disturbance happened and the compact mass exploded. I am not interested in what caused that disturbance as I do not believe in god (being a jain (atheist and not the one what current jains are)). So after big bang the masses exploded and this masses are moving apart from each other in the infinite sized space. With time the speed with which the universe is expanding will get slow and again the gravitational pull will be enough that mass will again attract each other and will contract back to form the same mass. then again the mass will explode due to some reason(I guess its due to heat energy bcz as the mass starts contracting the heat starts increasing, but anyway scietista re finding reason for it) and will again universe will be created. So the time will be like cycle.
    now for good cycles and bad cycles . Greed grows as a child grows to adult. a child is not born greedy, its with time that he experiences, that OK chocolate taste very good and his greed start developing for those things. With the evolution of time more and more thing are introduced leading to more and more greed in the world. The more greed the more world goes bad.
    why rape increases more bcz of pornography. Apes were all roaming nudes they never use to get attracted by she-apes breast. But with time we learn that ok chocolates taste that good. (you got my point right ?)

    Also life can never be claimed to only exits on earth in this infinite universe.

    2.Jains believe that they can accumulate and shed karma and this impacts their future lives (reincarnation). There’s no evidence of this.

    Well your problem is you have studied Jainism with you ear, Eye and brain closed. Jainsim never claim the system of karma to be designed due to some divine thing to ensure morality is preserved in universe.
    As per Jainism that its law of soul. Every things has a law , which appears divine unless we come to know what it is.
    If I would have said Gravitational force pull things down before newton people would have thought me fool.

    What I mean is its a law still unknown. You know what is the called hypothesis. A hypothesis is a unproven suggested solution to event. For example no one has seen how actually atoms look like. First came the bohr’s model that assumed atoms to be composed of solid particles revolving around another solid particle in circular orbit. This model was widely accepted at that time and it also was able to satisfy many of the known scientific formula of that time. Than again came Orbital model of atom , it was far more accurate.

    what I mean is same applies to our Jainism soul reincarnation. we do not know the law yet. But its is a possible proposal(a hypothesis) to what some is bonr rich and whay some one is born poor. Which the theory fo chances or random event cannot prove (see next point on this) or theory of after life in abarahmic religions do not prove.

    Reason why I think that law is accurate:

    1. I do not have explanation for why someone is born rich and why someone is born poor. You can say that a chance. But no its not a chance I can determine why I am poor or I am rich. The reason will be fairly deterministic. A random phenomenon is the the one which just occur without any reason. You cannot give explanations why it occurred but in case of why I am poor I can track a reason. I tried opening a Tea shop it did not worked because I was stupid enough I opened on a non business road.(or any other factor>> which is deterministic) not a random phenomena.
    2. I believe in soul. Soul can not be neglected because if we are just chemical and electrical process running in our brain then there can be no imagination.we cannot take decisions . Its us who take decisions and not chemical process. if its chemical process than one should always take same decision in a particular situation. But we are independent to take decisions.
    3. we grow young and we grow old. If its all chemical , we eat things to make our self strong. we grow into adult from a kid by eating same things , that we eat and then grow old. if its just chemical process why do we do not continue growing stronger and stronger as being an adult our immunity increase several fold as compared to child. a children immunity increase with time and an adults immunity decreased with time in spite of the contradictory fact that a Adult is much more healthier and stronger bread than a kid.

    I have many more to explainations but let me skip to other points.

    4.Janis support being free of materialism — not because it can be destructive in and of itself, but because it’ll allow you to more easily break free from the cycle of reincarnation. They’re doing a good thing for the wrong reason.

    What is the wrong in it ?
    what is wrong and right first of tell me. If their is no god  (as Jaisnism do not believe in God and me myself do not believe in it)
    what is wrong and what is right, explain me this. Killing a person is not wrong . a right and wrong thing is relative to a judge (god in this case).

    as we do not have reference to judge we cannot say one things is good or bad. But we can say that if you do this you get that , juts like if you throw apple (on earth in normal conditions) apple will fall back.
    A particle (whether it be a nuclear particle or a souls [some kind of substance]) is independent with any bond unless its not getting effected by anything. If no one can exert any force or in it its all independent. The same is the concept of Aparigrah . no bond to any materialistic thing, no effect of these material to your soul.

    I need to explain it further if you need it just tell me I have more points on this.

    5.Jains don’t believe in a god, per se, but they do believe in supernatural beings who have broken free of the reincarnation cycle to attain Nirvana. In fact, there are 24 beings who have done that… and we know their names. We memorized their names as children. Though there’s no evidence any of them ever “attained Nirvana.”

    OK but we have proof that Mahavira was a historically alive person.
    some sources also claims that they can reliably date till neminath. and Some have claimed that Indus valley civilization has some connection with Adinath. (see wikipedia)

    Ok now to prove Thithankara exist or not here is the proof:

    1. Rigveda was written prior to mahavir (100 years before see wikepidia or some other source you may belive in) Rig veda contain description of Adinath.
    2. So Adinath the founder of Jainism (not strictly but in this time cylce, if you do not believe in time cyle go and read my first explantions ocne again).was preachings same tenets which mahavir taught.(assembling the same tenets at those times when no written from was popular seems skeptical one cannot assemble those tenets unless he himself knows them).

    But still let me assume adinath do not exist.
    BUt you cannot deny from Mahavira.  existed. The person who can tell that microorganism lie and die in water thousand of year ago which we only come to believe in once we have invented Microscope (invented say 300 years ago). he has described various other life forms and other mathematics calculation (mahavira invested permutation and combination, called as VIKALP) and he defined five types of Not defined numbers (search for Wikipedia for this). So a persons who preaches not only physical non-violence and but also no-violents thoughts and has told so many truths , make us to believe that the probability of him to tell lie that” thithnkar theory is true” seems to be inappropriate.

    8.Jainism encourages an 8-day-long (or worse), unhealthy fasting during the holy time of the year. During the fast, you may only consume water that’s been pre-boiled.
    its told as a remedy to fastly shed you karma, nut its not compulsory.

    Example. You have taken a loan form bank , you will be given two options to pay it back.
    either pay it in 2 intallmanets(which will be big and not easy to pay)
    or either pay it in long term returns.But overall amount of time it is going to take will be proportionally increased.

    same applies to karma, which are your debts of this birth and previous birth shed after by the fast. (But I strictly do not believe in this explanations, as fast may be again a misconception that we might have gained, fasting which occurs un0intentionally bcz of being ascetic wil benefit rather than doing it forcefully. I am in a doubt here )

    6.The Jain rules regarding a vegetarian diet seem like they’re made up on the spot. Eggs are bad, but milk is ok. Potatoes and other food from the ground are bad, but there are exceptions depending on the day. Alcohol is forbidden, but young Jains go to bars all the time. The rules make hypocrisy rampant… but almost unavoidable.

    I must say you are the biggest Idiot on this earth (and I committed a sin).

    For potato eating > the issue is not that potatoes have so many living microbes., the issue is that any root should not be eaten as eating a root kills a plant. therefore grains are not forbidden to eat as grains have a very peculiar property that such plants has a finite life span. They will die after there period is over even if you keep on giving them water and environment to survive, A wheat plant only grows in a finite month for a finite period, you kill it or do not kill it, it will die after its month is over. No life remains in it, Its juts the residue without soul. So it can be eaten back.

    For milk and egg. >> this is the biggest idiot thing I can have guessed from an ignorant atheist like you (and I have committed sin)

    When a hen hatch an egg its turns into a Chicken, show me a single cow in the world who can hatch milk and can create a baby out of it. So eating egg is killing a chiken but drinking milk is not killing anyone.

    If you justify eating of egg why don’t you start eating you children when they are of 2 months in your wifes womb, (they are just egg then).

    Got the point ass hole. if need more explanations ask me.

    and dare to post this in your forum.
    Just don’t be atheist just it appear cool, do some research.
    Jain are atheists as I am , but I am not the jain what they are today. I do not belive in stone temples and many more things they practice. But I do believe in one of the most important concept of Jainism:

    Do not start believing without understanding. (its a sin)

    Jainism have itself said that the knowledge it  has in its literature is not full .
    this was because the language which a thithnakr used was human made.(and their was limitation of that language)
    You cannot go and explain electromangentic theory in sanskrit .
    Thithankar was in no way attached to any being he just taught waht he had learned.
     

  • John2find

     Hi Ami,

    I am replying to you as you have pointed wrong things at Jainism.
    Your issue is with people (who are born in jain family) and those issue you are claiming on Jainism.

    People make Temples , but Jainsim do not promotes temple. People are following wong thing. That is not Jainism.

    and undergoing this misconception you have bluntly said Jaisnism is wrong, when indeed the followers are not able to grasp it.

    The logic you have give that one most not have materialistic possession is true and that what Jainism teaches which they are not following.

  • John2find

    so probably you have met only jains by birth and not by practice. You cannot blaim on tenets of Jainism, you can blaim on people who are practicing it wrongly.

  • John2find

     Ok that appears tribal , but unlike west we have not given abrahamic reilgion that ask for blood of Humans. be it blood of Jesus for its people or be it blood of non-believers by islam.

  • John2find

    Ok here is my answer:

    1. If you blive in God (some kind of abrahmic god) the the answer is:
    so do you want to blame the crime on god , so the disabled persons can always think of that God has done injustice to me.(as in abrahamic religion their is no incarnations)
    2. If you are an atheist (but not jain): ist all mattre of chance you are born as blind. So that that persons can think of this world is just a chance let me fuck this as even this will be a chance with no consequence.

    My explanation: this is appearing to you blaim, but its the result from which we must take lesson.

  • John2find

    Hi my explanations to you , just bcz you pointed fingers.

    Getting harsh to oneself as it appear bad for others. So do you open you pants just because a gay want to see you naked.

    No. You do what you think is best for you.(if you are gay you will open if you are not you will not) its not about what other want for you its about what we want for ourselves.
    I mean no harshness. But that the best example I got it when I read your argument.

    Now comes to why one its all so strictness in Jainism:

    I must never complain anyone why the things is so and not the way I like.
    You get hungry and you have to earn some money for this. Isn’t it a pain. that each day you have to go and do , if you don’t do you have to suffer. See even it has  cause and its effect.

    if I have to be absolute happy, I must be non-attached. If I have no attachments with myself, I feel no bad why I am hungry. If I have no attachments with my relatives (as that is a mattre of luck I have not requested someone to give me those relatives it all happened without my choice) I have no worry what is going on with them.
    They worry about me and they are in pain. had they have no attachment with me they would have no pain.

    they are asking me to join their temporary relief form pain [ you may eat some sandwich to satisfy your hunger and be happy for 15 minutes and then again have to worry for earning other] where as I am calling them to a permanent relief from pain bby having non attachment.

    Non attachment is far different from suicide. I can discuss if you need.
    BUt I guess i have given your answer for Why I Jainism is so strict.

  • John2find

     what I can say is Jainism does not prohibit anyone form doing from anything, as its a violence(suppressing the freedom of expression).
    But Jainism say if you unhappy, you must not be then, because you know you are unhappy today because you want to be happy earlier.

    I myself drink bear and eat onion , but I know I have to  pay it some time.

    Juts to add: And Onion is prohibited as it is a root killing a plant by eating its root. You can eat grains.

    No one is prohibited from doing but are made ware of doing violence means getting violence in return in some or the other form.

  • Vir

    What the fuck are doing here typing? you should be meditating? Bollocks to your religion. Its still bullshit.

  • Vir

    I agree Steve, its weird that westerners give stupid beliefs a pass when it comes to eastern religions. Its still bullshit. Btw I live in India.

  • Vir

    Arey you Jain believers suffer from cognitive dissonance and cannot smell your own shit. You maybe entitled to make up your own truth but you cannot make up facts. Religion is bullshit. All of them

  • Atheist and cultural hindu

    > As it is eternally mentioned in bhagwad gita…
    You, Sir, are no different from what the evangelical christians claim about the bible.

  • John2find

    Well its not about what jains preach today, its about what jain must practice.
    I agree most of the jains may not be a good human, but its because they are not good jain.
    In case of mulims they are good humna because they are bad muslims. The one who follow he Korna word to word is called terrorist.

    But with jian this is not the case , they do not follow word to word what mahavir said.

    So I agree Jain (who are juts born in jain family) may not be good human, its bcz they do not preach what they claim.

  • John2find

    Hi ashish,

    Its not about what you want to believe , its about what you sow you get in return and it going to be always this way.

    Eg. you see a good apple on a tree. You try and jump but cannot reach, due to human limitations. You may wish that had gravity been 8.9 instead of 9.8 I would have been able to catch the apple. But your thinking doesnot change the law of nature. he same way law of karma is  not based on what you think, its about this is it.

    First of all as per my understanding of Jainism , concept of hell must have been added later by different sect. I believe in hell is all here. You can see a fly sow its egg in a brain of animal . Its larva eats it brains and then come out as a fly. Think of the pain the animal is facing who’s brain is eaten from inside.
    Isn’t it a hell ?

    Now you said that all sects has different belief which one to believe which to not?

    True. First thing you must understand is jainism itself calims that the knowledge has already been lost due to:

    1. Agams were prepared 170 years aftre mahavira.
    2. Mahavira himself was not able to convey all the knowledge due to limitation of the PRakarit language which is man made. You cannot explain electromagnetic theory in prakrit.
    3.Every one of us have partial knowledge to perceive things, so niether the disciples gained what he was trying to deliver.

    Now you question is how do we know the correct thing, else if we do not do it we will be going to hell .

    First thing you will never go to hell , instead you may become a donkey in next birth who is loaded with tons of load and bitten rigorously. This is hell.

    How to know the correct thing ?

    Find it. As per Jainism , doing a superstition is a aging a sin. Jain are free to explore and know the correct truth and are advices to follow the correct path.
    So find it yourself and then follow the best practices, keeping in mind that you do not commit any violence (core principle).

    you will say one cannot leave without breathing so one cannot find truth without violence.

    You are right that breathing should not be stopped, but yo are wrong that you have not read why jainism has justified breathing. Read it and know it.

    You will say i am all good, even without knowing. that is good, but then you must never complain why a particular thing happened to only me.

    And complaining for nothing in this world is called aparigrah(non attachment)

  • John2find

    Thanks Even I want to say the author same.

  • John2find

    Hemant, can you scientifically give me a proof of what life is?
    If life is just a chemical or electric pulses, then probably you are right.

    but what do you say life is ??

  • John2find

    I liked you lines:

    “So jainism is so strict . but if your aim is not moksha then u are free
    to follow at the best possible level that u can , But for moksha there
    is no compromise”

  • John2find

    Rajesh you have misunderstood people with the religion.

    Jainsims prohibit wearing leathor, but the person has weared. its his personal mistake and not mistake with the jainism.

    he has not followed what jainism says, you cannot blame Jainism for this.

    Unlike abrahmic religion which ask for blood , jainism do not ask for blood.

  • John2find

    Hi Parth,

    I will ask you only two questions again as were asked by Rakesh.

    Why is some one born blind ?

    your answer due to birth defect, yes that true but the question is not answered yet. The question is whay only out of millions life on this earth why hat particular person was “destined” to be blind.
    Why the probability of genetic defects only happened for the person and not to you.

    Your answer is the explanation why some is blind by birth, but why only he was blind is unanswered ?

    Why all the factors (genetics and phyiscal) happened so accurately for that particular person only ?

    (I know your answer will be chance, but that how that chance happened only with that person and not with you)

    2. your explantion for “Emotions and love ” agreed that I laugh which means some chemical have been introduced in my brain that made me react to laugh.

    But I will like to emphasize that , its because I want to laugh first therefore the chemical reaction taking  place and not becasue chemical reaction first took place therefore I am laughing.
    Chemical reaction took place to produce signals to my body to reflect I am happy.

    But first thing was I was happy than chemical reaction took place to appear I am happy.

  • Abhi72k

    After reading all the comments I think in order to get rid of all the malaices of this world jains should stop conceiving. After some years there will be no sufferings, no karma and the only people who will survive are those who can suffer and make this world a more beautiful place.

  • ModernJain

    A major idea in Jainism is to live and let live.  And it is because the philosophy is ultimate respect to any living thing.  I am not the most religious person, but as a young Jain I have a lot of respect for the religion.  Who said you can’t practice some philosophies of a religion, and still not be considered Jain. Jainism doesn’t force beliefs on people, you do as you feel is appropriate for yourself.  Some people to taap which is more fasting and more penance, while some people may go to their temple once a year.  Whatever it is, they never claimed they are the most devout followers, so why assume that there is some hypocrisy….people do what they feel is appropriate.  Not everyone can be the most religious like a sadhu (nun).

        Let people believe what they want to, if it what makes them happy.  No one on earth is an all powerful being who can read minds, so if someone believes in something that is helping out the world to be a more peaceful place…why must people find criticism in it.  I get you want to find the truth…but if you are not well read on the religion to the point that you can discuss something with a scholar, please watch your words.  Because Jainism has its own advanced science that is very intense that describes geography/physics/ etc.  You may think it is all “fiction”…but I guess you can argue just about any point and say it is a theory or fake.  The point is people are entitled to their beliefs whether or not it makes sense to you or not.  We can argue with science, religion, etc.  pretty much any subject on this matter..we have very little knowledge what the truth actually may be, but it is good to find solace and practice something that benefits so many living creatures, earth, etc…
       I think you are entitled to your opinions, and can understand that just because it is a non violent doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be criticized…but some things don’t always have answers…we take from it what we can…and if it benefits us and others…sometimes those truths are what we need to remain happy.

  • ModernJain

    A major idea in Jainism is to live and let live.  And it is because the philosophy is ultimate respect to any living thing.  I am not the most religious person, but as a young Jain I have a lot of respect for the religion.  Who said you can’t practice some philosophies of a religion, and still not be considered Jain. Jainism doesn’t force beliefs on people, you do as you feel is appropriate for yourself.  Some people to taap which is more fasting and more penance, while some people may go to their temple once a year.  Whatever it is, they never claimed they are the most devout followers, so why assume that there is some hypocrisy….people do what they feel is appropriate.  Not everyone can be the most religious like a sadhu (nun).
        Let people believe what they want to, if it what makes them happy.  No one on earth is an all powerful being who can read minds, so if someone believes in something that is helping out the world to be a more peaceful place…why must people find criticism in it.  I get you want to find the truth…but if you are not well read on the religion to the point that you can discuss something with a scholar, please watch your words.  Because Jainism has its own advanced science that is very intense that describes geography/physics/ etc.  You may think it is all “fiction”…but I guess you can argue just about any point and say it is a theory or fake.  The point is people are entitled to their beliefs whether or not it makes sense to you or not.  We can argue with science, religion, etc.  pretty much any subject on this matter..we have very little knowledge what the truth actually may be, but it is good to find solace and practice something that benefits so many living creatures, earth, etc…
       I think you are entitled to your opinions, and can understand that just because it is a non violent doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be criticized…but some things don’t always have answers…we take from it what we can…and if it benefits us and others…sometimes those truths are what we need to remain happy.

  • Shubh..

    hey! you are talking about no proof of existence of jain gods.. please read it..
    “lord mahavira attained nirvana some 2600 years ago..
    jains believe gods to have attained all knowledge of world before attaining nirvana..
    it was because of this “all knowledge” that lord mahavira 2600 years ago(at time when no microscopes existed) advocated the presence of microorganisms in water and hence asked his followers to filter it befiore drinking..(filtering is in itself a well defined process and better known as ‘jiwani’. it is such that it leads to not even killing of filtrate microorganisms) 
    if lord mahavira did never existed..how the hell did jains could see microorganisms in water since ancient times????????????

  • Poonam Arhat

     :-
    परशुराम की हत्या
    जैनी कह रहे हें कि परशुराम की हत्या जैनियों के आठवें चक्रवर्ती सुभौम ने कर दी थी ।
    अभी अभी एस लेखक ने एक जैन फोरम पर भगवान विष्णु के छटे अवतार भगवान परशुराम के विरुद्ध यह विकृत कथा पढ़ी जो जैनियों  के त्रिषष्टि शलाका पुरुष ( 63 heroes of jainism ) से उद्ध्र्त हे ।

    मूर्ख अंधविश्वासी और कल्पना जाल में फँसे हिंदू जिस परशुराम को चिरंजीवी मानते हे असल मे उसकी हत्या जैनियों के आठवें चक्रवर्ती सुभौम ने कर दी थी ।
    रेणुका, जमदग्नि ऋषि की पत्नी उम्र में जमदग्नि से बहूत छोटी थी वा जमदग्नि उसे संतुष्ट नहीं रख पाता था इस कारण रेणुका का सहस्त्रार्जुन से संबंध हो गया । जमदग्नि को जब रेणुका के व्यभिचार पता चला तो उसने अपने पुत्र परशुराम से रेणुका का वध करा दिया ।
    रेणूका की हत्या का बदला लेने के लिए सहस्त्रार्जुन ने बूढ़े जमदग्नि की हत्या कर दी । ईसपर परशुराम ने अपने पिता की हत्या का बदला लेने के लिए सहस्त्रार्जुन पर हमला कर सहस्त्रार्जुन को मार डाला वा सहस्त्रार्जुन का राज्य हथिया लिया ।
    पर सहस्त्रार्जुन की गर्भवती पत्नी तारा किसी प्रकार से वहाँ से भागने में सफल हो गई ।  वन में जैनियों के  महामुनी शाँडिल्य ने  तारा को संरक्षण दिया । जब तारा ने पुत्र को जन्म दिया तो महामुनी शाँडिल्यमुनी ने उसका नाम सुभौम रखा । युवा होने पर शाँडिल्यमुनी ने सुभौम को समस्त युद्ध कोशलों मे निपुण किया जो आगे चलकर जैन धर्म का आठवाँ चक्रवर्ती बना ।
    बाद में जब शाँडिल्यमुनी ने चक्रवर्ती सुभौम को उसके पिता सहस्त्रार्जुन की हत्या की बात बताई तो अपने पिता की हत्या बदला लेने के लिए परम चक्रवर्ती सुभौम ने पापात्मा परशुराम का वध करके अपना रज्य पुनरर्जित कर लिया ।
    बाद में महाबली चक्रवर्ती सुभौम ने शाँडिल्यमुनी की प्रेरणा से ब्राह्मणों का नरसंहार प्रारंभ किया वा सारी पृथ्वी को ब्राह्मण विहीन कर डाला वा जैन धर्म के प्रचार-प्रसार वा संरक्षण में लग गया ।
    इस कथा के अनेकों वर्सन जैन वेब साइटों, जैन फोरमो, एवं जैन ब्लॉग्स पर पड़े हें ।

    हिंदू धर्म के समस्त विद्वान जानते हें कि मोर्यकाल के समय राज आश्रय मिलने के बाद जैन मतावलंबियों ने हिंदू धर्म के विरुद्ध किस प्रकार का घातक विष वमन किया । समवायांग सूत्र,
    बृहत कथा कोष, महापुराण, त्रिषष्टि शलाका पुरुष चरितम, विकेक सार, पउमचरियं, जैनियों का पद्मम-पुरण जैनियों का हरिवंश पुराण आदि अनेक जैन ग्रंथ इतने घातक रूप से हिंदू धर्म एवम हिंदू देवी देवताओं के विरुद्ध विष-वमन से भरे पड़े कि किसी भी हिंदू की धार्मिक भावना भड़क उठे वा ४० लाख से से भी कम जनसंख्या वाले जैन मतावलंबियों का १०० करोड़ से भी अधिक जनसंख्या वाले हिंदूओं के मध्य शांतिपूर्ण अस्तिव ख़तरे में पड़ जाय।
    यह तो सौभग्य की बात थी कि अल्पसंख्या होने के कारण अथवा कायरता वश जैन अपने अंदर का हिंदूओं के विरुद्ध वैमनश्य स्पष्ट नहीं करते थे। पर दुर्भग्यवश अभी अभी जैन विद्वान,  लेखक वा जैनमुनी  अनेकों वेब साइटों और जैन फोरमों एवं जैन ब्लॉग्स पर हज़ार वर्ष पुराने गड़े मुर्दे ज़ोर शोर से उखाड़ रहे हें ।
    हिंदू धर्म के विद्वानों को हिंदू देवी देवताओं के विरुद्ध जैनियों इस घातक विष वमन को रोकने का यथोचित प्रयास करना चाहिए ।
    जैनी भी अगर इतिहास के गड़े मुर्दे इतिहास में गड़े रहने दें तो उचित होगा ।
    देखें : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jainhistory/message/692
    #

    :-
    आदि शंकराचार्या की हत्या ।
    जैनी कह रहे हें कि आदि शंकराचार्या की हत्या जैनियों ने की थी ।
    एक अन्य वेब साइट पर जैनी कह रहे हें : पापात्मा आदि शंकराचार्या ने चोथी सदी में दस लाख से अधिक जैनियों का नरसंहार करा डाला वा एक लाख से अधिक जैन मंदिर तुड़वा डाले जिससे भारत वर्ष में बहूसँख्यक जैन अल्पसँख्यक हो गये ।
    वो तो ३२ वर्ष की अल्पायू में शंकराचार्य को दो जैन मुनियों ने विष देकर मार डाला अन्यथा शंकराचार्य सारी धरती के जैनियों को मरवा डालता ।
    देखें : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jainhistory/message/841
    #

  • Shashank

    Hi Ami
                     “Jains support being free of materialism” doesn’t mean you shouldn’t  work and make money.  Being  “free of materialism” means you shouldn’t do anything which is unethical,  wrong, promote violence for sake of money…Also one has to understand that money is not the ultimate goal and priority. One should  do good work and work toward becoming better man/woman.

    “Jain” is traditionally rich community. It was common practice in the past ( and it exists presently in smaller scale) that a Rich Jain businessman just relinquish their all wealth and becomes saints and lead their life without any luxuries. 
    Although younger generation (including you) are the main reason of degradation of Jain values.

  • shashank

     Hi Hemant,
                                 I want to ask you counter question……Can you provide concrete  evidence for karma, heaven, hell, reincarnation, etc.doesn’t exist?????. It is not that if you haven’t seen or experienced a thing in your life time doesn’t exist.

  • vikram

    Coming from a Jain family , i totally agree with what parth is saying here , the amount of hypocrisy prevalent in the jain community is mind boggling.

    And i do not even want to start about the blood diamond issue , my own dad deals in diamonds and this one issue has lead to many hot arguments with him.

    and everyone is just ignoring the fact how the varakh or the thin silver foil which is used to decorate the idols in derasar is made,and please do not even give me an excuse of that machines are used as i have personally seen the making of these foil.

    Hypocrisy much !

  • Nidz S0192

    The idea of Jainism certainly nothing more that non-violence.  It is a uni-faceted religion which doesn’t serve many purposes as not all suffer from the tendencies of violence, so unfortunately it is unable to bring a lot of people under its wing, though having a noble cause. However, the purpose of “non-violence” makes more sense considering only behavioral aspects,  it makes no sense regarding foods. It amuses me how Jainists rubbish vegetable like onions and potatoes (important sources of vitamics), which are creations of God , in the NAME OF GOD!! I think that is horrible. And when you ask a jainist about their religion they will proudly say it is based on science, but shouldn’t a religion be about spirituality and all the things beyond human limitation? Science is amazing, it is a must, but making it an integral part of God seems limiting as science is unable to answer ALL questions, that doesn’t stand true considering an omniscient entity. A religion based on science, should know about the food chain, and that each organism is dependent on the other. Is it a sin for a tiger to eat a deer? Speaking of non-violence, they should not eat ANYTHING, because plants are very much living and can very much feel, a religion based on science should know that plants also have an impulse system more complicated than humans, they undergo a process called bleeding of sap akin to ours and also respond to positivity and negativity. 

    The idea of non-violence is a great philosophy. But that’s about it.  Nothing outstandingly divine about jainist beliefs. There are many non-jain people including christians and even some atheists that believe in non-violence, that particular thing does not become their religion, now does it? 

    People doing what they feel is appropriate can be exploited at times. A religion should have an omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient being for guidance. If we appropriate anything to our convenience then why is incest looked down upon? We know it is unnatural but in the name of “do as you please” it is fair, yet an infamy for certain obvious reason. They do believe in karma though but their steps for salvation through penance is pretty much inexistent. They would come home trouble their daughter -in-laws , go to a pilgrimage and convince themselves they have booked themselves a speck of heaven, but is that the right way of salvation? 

    I would disagree on the fasting part. Many of their fasts are proven to have a detoxing effect on the internal system, cleansing it completely.

    But and over-all jain diet is horrble and makes no sense. There is no proof of such a diet being scientifically beneficial.

  • Darsh Jain

    Grew up as a Jain, never regretted it for a second. 

  • Manishjain31

    Just stop the non-sense…your shit points….if your mind is not capable enough to learn and understand the things then problem is in your mind – and not in the theory and implementation of jainism….and if by birth jains do anything wrong then how can you say jainism wrong…everything can not be seen from naked eyes and can not be felt right now or everytime…….ok? read and research your own…..I am sure you will not get any answer till your end of life…..life is very short man to understand such things….would be better – do the things what your heart says…. don’t post such things…..hope you will understand….. 

  • Manishjain31

    Superb replies brother….can you share me your email or FB profile/name at least? send it to manishjain31@gmail.com

  • Phoenix

    Everybody has a different viewpoint of an idea. According to me (What I have studied till now), Jainism is all about knowledge. What do you know about the world around you. The day you know everything or attain ABSOLUTE KNOWLEDGE, I don’t know about other people but a jain would listen to you and follow you. Then its in your hand do as you please. Your words would be JAINISM. And do not bring women in this matter, religion and marring a women are two completely different things and it insults the religion. Its good that you are Jain and they follow non-violence. Thats all I have to say. BYE BYE.

  • John2find

     john2find@gmail.com

  • human2011

    Have you gone to moon or landed on moon? Have you found the proof of E=MC2 by yourself? You heard it from authorative sources, like teachers or much less authorative, some non-original books. So, please dont believe in Moon, Sun and that there are billions of galaxies in the world. 

  • Kamalsamria Samria04

    this is not jain dharm for which it is written.It is stated on basis of senses.where as jain dharm is beyond senses.

  • Ashwinbahulkar

    Well but how do you explain the fact that that particular gene defect happened to that person,and not to someone else? Or that some individual had was raised in a god environment,while  someone else did not have the privileges of a “good” family. That’s where karma comes into the picture, for things you dont have control over.

  • Ashwinbahulkar

     agree with you, the “chance” thing is what we call karma. Events beyond our control.

  • Pradeep m. jain

    dont look what jain peoples practice today or what science have still not proved,just think thirthanLets start with what  science says about this universe.science says regardless of big bang theory or other theories one thing is commen that this universe is made up of several atoms and molecules,these A &M’s undergo the process of change every second,also these A& M’s have many other factors by which this universe under go the process of change one thing is created and other is destoyed ,but actully nothing is being created nor destroyed only replacement is happening,these  A&M’s also have colour,odour,touch etc,,Modern sceience calls it MATTER,then comes ETHER,whose function is to provide medium of motion to matter,then there is SPACE whose funtion is to provide  every matter and ether to stay in a particuler space,then there is TIME  whose function is to bring change in matter’s form.so modern science claims that this universe is not created by any creator called god but it is just a combination of MATTER,ETHER,TIME AND SPACE.Now read jain tatwagyan and u will be astonished to read a more deeper and logical theory about this universe.In short I would like to mention jaina theory about this universe,jainism says that this universe is made up of 6 dravyas,their name is jiv(soul)ajiv(matter)dharmastikay& adharmastikaya(ether),Aakash(space )and kaal(time),There are many other logical answers which science have proved it for example jainism believes that WORDS are a matter form but  2-3 centuries ago it was believed that WORDS are not a matter,But with discovery of radio,telephone,gramaphone etc it have been proved that words are a matter form which can be copied,saved,transfered,recorded etc,my dear friend kers were omnipresent,their moksh was final yet for our benifit,for a peaceful world for a better future of coming generations they propogated the ultimate truth,the path of liberation,a path of co-existance with this whole ecosystem.thier aim was simple …to end our’s misery,suffering,pain ,sorrow.take it or leave it its your choice.but believe me there is no alternate to jainism,JAINISM IS AN ANCIENT SCIENCE STILL UNEXPLORED BY THIS MODEREN WORLD

  • Pradeep m. jain

    Lets start with what  science says about this universe.science says regardless of big bang theory or other theories one thing is commen that this universe is made up of several atoms and molecules,these A &M’s undergo the process of change every second,also these A& M’s have many other factors by which this universe under go the process of change one thing is created and other is destoyed ,but actully nothing is being created nor destroyed only replacement is happening,these  A&M’s also have colour,odour,touch etc,,Modern sceience calls it MATTER,then comes ETHER,whose function is to provide medium of motion to matter,then there is SPACE whose funtion is to provide  every matter and ether to stay in a particuler space,then there is TIME  whose function is to bring change in matter’s form.so modern science claims that this universe is not created by any creator called god but it is just a combination of MATTER,ETHER,TIME AND SPACE.Now read jain tatwagyan and u will be astonished to read a more deeper and logical theory about this universe.In short I would like to mention jaina theory about this universe,jainism says that this universe is made up of 6 dravyas,their name is jiv(soul)ajiv(matter)dharmastikay& adharmastikaya(ether),Aakash(space )and kaal(time),There are many other logical answers which science have proved it for example jainism believes that WORDS are a matter form but  2-3 centuries ago it was believed that WORDS are not a matter,But with discovery of radio,telephone,gramaphone etc it have been proved that words are a matter form which can be copied,saved,transfered,recorded etc,my dear friend dont look what jain peoples practice today or what science have still not proved,just think thirthankers were omnipresent,their moksh was final yet for our benifit,for a peaceful world for a better future of coming generations they propogated the ultimate truth,the path of liberation,a path of co-existance with this whole ecosystem.thier aim was simple …to end our’s misery,suffering,pain ,sorrow.take it or leave it its your choice.but believe me there is no alternate to jainism,JAINISM IS AN ANCIENT SCIENCE STILL UNEXPLORED BY THIS MODEREN WORLD

  • isha

    Feel sad for the person who has written the above article, i hope you would have got a true teacher or someone who could make you understand the meaning of Jainism. It is not a religion, it is a book which teaches us how to live our life as a human being.

    It is very true to follow Jainism in today’s era is very difficult and it results in frustration when a person does not understand basic of Jainism and start practicing it. I feel same has happened with you. You have already got replies below from many people so would request not to write against any religion. No religion teaches you bad things only we human being make it bad.

  • yobreakfast

    Ehm, geez, you sound like one of those militant atheists who thinks he needs scientific evidence for every piece he believes in, and when you cant prove it its bullshit. Maybe you should have a better look at science then and see that it is constantly changing, being disproven all the time. Yeah, you’re definitely not a Jain, since Jainism also teaches to be tolerant of beliefs that are different from yours. And I’m sorry, but all your thoughts are just that, be they scientific or not, there is no such thing as absolute evidence in science. If you think so, you should perhaps bother studying science. And then start throwing your beliefs about it out as if they are absolute truth, cause all scientists i know, and i know plenty, im a reseacher, will say you are gravely misled.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ashwin.bahulkar Ashwin Bahulkar

    Why is it that atheists like you are filled with negativity, and don’t give examples of modern science, there are plenty of things which modern science has yet not been able to prove, for example why certain diseases occur in certain indivivuals. Modern science still has a long way to go,who knows all of this might be proved one day. 
    And your last comment   “This is why I never had a desire for you to set me up with a “nice Jain girl.”   highlights your lack of maturity. How do you judge an individual even before meeting him by his religion? No wonder atheists like you never contribute anything positive to the world. 


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