You can be skeptical and friendly at the same time.
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Hemant Mehta is the editor of Friendly Atheist, appears on the Atheist Voice channel on YouTube, and co-hosts the uniquely-named Friendly Atheist Podcast. You can read much more about him here.
Thanks for that one! Funny!
I don’t get the militant agnostic one… seems more like a militant Christian to me :/
xo, an agnostic
The militant agnostic would also be at a keyboard, announcing to the internets that the militant atheist is just as bad as the guy pointing a shotgun at you or wearing a suicide vest.
The stereotypial militant agnostic is a person who shouts “OMG GUYZ U AETHIST R JUST AS BAD AS THE FUNDATMENTISTS, WHY CAN’T U LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE?!?”
Honestly “militant agnostic” is more than a bit of an oxymoron. If you don’t know about something, how can you form enough of an opinion to be militant?
I anticipate a deluge of indignant agnostic responses…prove me wrong, internets.
Where can I get a T-shirt?
Maybe they’re gnostic about their agnosticism? Agnostignostics? Gnostagnostics?
How people forget that European nihilist anarchists, all of them nominally atheist, invented the car bomb.
Not that this describes anyone here, but the phrase “militant atheist” does actually refer to something in the real world, even if most people use the term incorrectly.
Did they create and use the car bomb to make a statement specifically about atheism though? I mean, there is a difference between militant people who are also atheists and people who are militant atheists just like there is a difference between militant people who are religious and people who you would categorize as militantly religious. If someone blows up a building and they happen to be Christian that doesn’t make them a militant Christian. If a Christian blows up a building for specifically religious reasons, that’s when they ought to be categorized as a militant Christian. I don’t know that much about European nihilist anarchists though, I could be wrong.
Hey, Britney’s a bitch. So there.
Well, I’ll try, dear friend Pinko. I don’t care for the image of the agnostic as someone with their head in the sand. I think it takes courage to admit you don’t have the kind of information required to build a total system of explanation. Cultures have tried many times to fit the world to a specific belief system. It’s the fitting that always breaks down. At least with the scientific approach to apprehending the world, the ‘dogma’ evolves and changes to fit the evidence. So while based on probability I would lean strongly towards atheism, at the end of the day I keep coming back to agnosticism, in that I know that I don’t know. I have heard of militant agnostics- who are convinced that you can’t know. It is a fun philosophical rabbit hole.
I think it takes courage to admit you don’t have the kind of information required to build a total system of explanation.
Perhaps, but one might note that few if any atheists claim to “have the kind of information required to build a total system of explanation.” The very notion that atheism purports to be, or indeed has any relationship to, “a total system of explanation” is an absurd misconception that one tends to find among “militant” (though that’s a ridiculous adjective) agnostics.
Atheism is the lack of belief in gods. That’s all. It has no necessary connection to what anyone knows.
Panel 5: http://www.airshipentertainment.com/buckcomic.php?date=20071222
Actually I was referring to religions constructing ‘systems of explanations’, not to atheism. So according to how you see it, i’d be interested in how you distinguish atheism as lack of belief, from agnosticism as not having enough info to establish either belief or non belief. I guess I’m interested in keeping belief irrelevant to how we investigate the world we’re immersed in. Apologies at my self taught use of terminology, I’m genuinely trying to parse the differences between atheism and agnosticism when I see a fair amount of overlap, and the bizarre but fun phenomenon of agnostics being the one group that atheists can kick. I joke but I’m serious.
I always thought militant agnostic was summed up by that little GIF that said: “Militant Agnostic: I Don’t Know and You Don’t Either”. Isn’t that their basic tenet?
I’ve run into three militant agnostics on the internet. They hate atheists with a passion. It’s not rational either. They know that we cannot know, even in the case of a self refuting definition of god.
Yeah, but militant atheist is used to refer to any atheist who expresses their opinion. It’s not meant to refer to those that are violent, just vocal.
Before the invention of the car bomb, was there a horse bomb? Ewww. Icky.
Have a question to ask all of you. My belief is that there is no god, there is not one bit of evidence that a god exists. However I believe that it’s difficult to actually say you know there is or there isn’t a supreme being. If evidence comes to light to prove scientifically that there is a god, I’ll change my belief. So does this make me an atheist or agonistic?
As a side note, I’m always reminded of the line from “Once upon a time in the west” by Dire Straits when it comes to agonistics
“Sitting on a fence that’s a dangerous courseAh, you could even catch a bullet from the peace-keeping force”
You’re not a militant atheist unless you have an ergonomic keyboard.
Brethren and Sistren, quarrel not, be at peace. Let us join together and take comfort in the Canticle of Saint Rumsfeld:
There are known knowns, and there are known unknowns. There are unknown knowns, and there are unknown unknowns. There are assumed assumptions and there are assumed unassumptions. There are unassumed assumptions and there are unassumed unassumptions. There certainly are maybes, and maybe there are certainties, but maybe not, certainly. There certainly may be certain maybes that are more certainly maybes than the maybe maybes which might have some certainty in them, unless maybe they don’t. There are a hell of a lot of what the fucks, and there are a fucking lot of what the hells. Is there more beer?
I also do!
Atheist. IMO. Remember we are not proving anything exist, we’re just saying there is no evidence that there is a god. If proof would come up that there is, it would be hard to be an Atheist. But there still would probably be many who still choose not to follow such as god regardless if he/she exist or not because if he/she is anything like the Old Testament….who would want to worship such a evil person?
Cool, thanks. And totally agree about the worshipping / following he / she /it. If such a being exists, it’s a bit of a dick.
Agnostic= Someone who is wishy-washy in their views about a god. Not sure there IS or IS’NT a god. Can’t make a decision regarding it. (Head in the sand (photo) ) If you hold on to the words ” there might be” then you’re an Agnostic.
If you’re running from the term Atheist, then that’s a whole different play game, you just don’t want to face facts honestly on your beliefs even IF you believe there’s no god. (another head in the sand type person) “don’t ask me that question…….because I don’t want the title “Atheist” put over me!”
Atheist= Lives with the belief or thought that there is no good evidence for a god, so they stand by the statement: There is no god. Just like there’s no tooth fairy, Santa Claus or Leprechaun.
Those who believe in a god need to prove otherwise and then once there’s proof, you probably won’t have a single Atheist after that. They might not follow a proven god but as far as their views on “whether there’s a god or not” would be gone.
It makes you an agnostic atheist, which is in fact the same as most other sensible non-believers and skeptics. The two are NOT exclusive. A/Gnosticism deals with KNOWLEDGE of the existence of a deity whereas A/Theism deals with the BELIEF.
There’s a difference between fence sitting agnostics (giving credence to all arguments and none, which is just stupid) and believing the evidence points one way, but allowing room for doubt and opposing evidence if it arises (that’s just common sense).
Anyone tries to tell you otherwise, be sure to give them some schooling and remind them why it’s not a good idea to pretend you know something… it makes you just as bad as the fuckwit that believes in Jewish Zombies and other rubbish.
Don’t use gendered insults…
I think telling people your agnostic is like telling people your Canadian when traveling. You just don’t get as much shit.
not too much has been said of the religious affiliations of the italian anarchists who attempted to blow up jp morgan bank on wall st in 1920. the mastermind was said to be ticked off about the arrests of his buddies sacco & vanzetti. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wall_Street_bombing
this is an all too common misconception about the word agnostic
agnostic doesn’t mean “wishy washy” or “there might be” or “who cares?”
the philosophy of agnosticism does not directly address the question of metaphysics that atheism and theism do. agnosticism is specifically an epistemological philosophy that states that we can not have knowledge of whether or not there is a god.
again: theism and atheism are two sides to the metaphysical philosophy of “god does/does not exist”
agnosticism is, instead, an epistemological position stating that we are incapable of having knowledge of whether or not a god exists.
the skeptics community really needs to get this one right if it’s going to keep from alienating its own members
Okay, Brittany is a poopie-head.
The common refutation is that it cannot be known that there is no Santa Clause. We have satellites watching the north pole, but maybe his house is too small to see, or it’s the same color as the ice and nobody has noticed it. Maybe he’s living in a mountain or underground, or in a giant submarine. Maybe he’s living underground on the moon. Yeah, these present problems, but so do God, and you don’t know that there aren’t mechanisms to resolve them. I do not know that Santa doesn’t exist, and I don’t have any counter evidence, but I’m still able to legitimately reject claims of his existence as a supernatural being, even if I must admit St. Nicholas did exist as a historical figure, while still rejecting claims that he was could perform miracles/was the son of God(oops, wrong story).
We are incapable of having knowledge of whether or not God exists, but we are incapable of having knowledge of anything other than “I think, therefore I am”. It’s a meaningless claim, and the above image is an accurate metaphor of “militant” agnosticism. I have no problem with claiming you’re an agnostic to avoid ignorant hatred from scumfuck bigots(which is what the word was designed for in the first place), but please don’t present it as a valid epistemic position.
Real militants use a Model M…
Thank you Philbert. That made my day
but…. I am canadian :-s
gnosticism is what you know, theism is what you believe. They are not unique positions. One can be an agnostic theist, for example.
And atheism is not the position of “God does not exist”. Atheism is the lack of a belief in a god. The agnostic community really needs to get this one right.
You’re an agnostic what. You didn’t tell us what you believe.
A militant agnostic is someone who, if you’re an atheist, tries to shove your head in the sand.
A lot of MA’s and agnostics generally seem to fall into the fallacy of thinking that there are only 3 legitimate positions of any issue: 100% certainty; 0% certainty; or 50-50. Which is strange, because the claim: “We can never know, even in principle, whether or not god exists” is as dogmatic as either the 100%-for or 100%-against stance. In reality of course, the evidence against god can be so strong that even if we are not at 100%, we are fully justified in living our lives as if there were no god.
Also I wonder why no-one ever says they’re agnostic about Zeus, Thor, Ra, Quetzlcoatl etc. etc. In our society, to call oneself an agnostic is to legitimize the christian god in a way, to give him a special pass against not being believed in when the same level of evidence would justify not believing in other gods. Thus, it seems to me there is a tinge of cowardice about self-identifying as an agnostic.
Which is fine, I am not going to judge. Maybe some people are safer calling themselves agnostics rather than atheists, letting their neighbors think the door is still open for them to be dragged back to the fold. What I can’t stand is ags who make a virtue of fence-sitting and equivocation, and lecture atheists about how militant and dogmatic they are.
Personally, my position is not so much “god exists” or “god doesn’t exist” but the following: the concept of god is incoherent. God has not been defined clearly enough that the question of his existence is even worth addressing. Therefore I am an atheist as a matter of pragmatism, not dogma.
I’m having trouble parsing that first sentence. Your agnostic likes telling people that your Canadian is traveling? I’ll have to ask my agnostic and my Canadian what they get up to when I’m not around.
“…and the bizarre but fun phenomenon of agnostics being the one group that atheists can kick.”
As an admitted Furry, and thus the lowest of the low, reviled throughout Geekdom, that made me blink. Empathetic hugs all around!
You probably didn’t want to know this:
Googling “horse bomb” brings up links to articles that apparently indicate that this is nothing new (and likely has precedents to the Wall Street bombing as well) – while also being a current and ongoing threat.
Ugly? Messy? Icky? Yes.
As well as disturbing, unfortunate, and despicable…
so much bull**** here -.- A militant Agnostic is a guy who says, I don’t know and you don’t either!
A militant Agnostic is an antiabrahamic guy just like an atheist (because science showed us with Evolution and the big bang th. that the bible is bullshit), but he dont makes the mistake to say …therefore no god exists… science cant proove that and an m.agn.guy dont says something if science dont agree or disagree there4 he is smarter thn an atheist!
sry poor atheists, we win because we are more scientific.
And here I thought that Militant Agnostic bumper sticker was just funny…
I am troubled by the comments of several people here, including ‘Volunteer’ and ‘Rabbi_Si’ arguing for the division between belief and knowledge. After all, our beliefs are just a function of how our brain processes our knowledge.
When Huxley coined the term ‘agnosticism’ he was talking about a scientific way of looking at God – a belief system that actually corresponded to his scientific knowledge. So, for Huxley, agnosticism stood equal and in opposition to theism or atheism.
I realize that those trying to divide ‘belief’ and ‘knowledge’ on this blog may actually be agnostics trying to make the point that nobody actually knows and therefore everyone should identify as an agnostic. But… I don’t know. I’d rather put agnosticism on the same level as other religious beliefs rather than try to separate (and risk ostracizing) it.
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