Mormons Get Caught Baptizing Famous Dead Jews… Now They’re Punishing the People Who Point That Out

There’s a website called familysearch.org that allows you to search through the records of the Mormon Church and find information about people who are now dead, who have since been “baptized” into the Mormon faith…

Like Anne Frank. Or Mahatma Gandhi. Or Elie Wiesel (not dead yet but a Mormon-to-be-named-later).

Obviously, a “proxy baptism” has absolutely no effect. People don’t magically become Mormon after they die… because, you know, they’re dead. (I know, I know, that sounds obvious, but try telling that to a Mormon.)

Still, it can be hurtful to the relatives of the people who are now magically Mormon as well as anyone who wants to preserve their legacy:

“I am a Holocaust survivor. It is so offensive in the sense that Holocaust victims were killed solely because they were Jews. And here comes the Mormon church taking away their Jewishness,” said Abraham H. Foxman, national director of the Anti-Defamation League. “It’s like killing them twice.”

A lot of the work exposing what Mormon churches have been doing has been done by Helen Radkey.

She’s has gotten access into the website for years thanks to the help of Mormon confidants (presumably ex-Mormons) and now the church is trying to stop her.

Their solution: If you even try to search on their website for, say, Anne Frank, they’re suspending your account.

“I have been effectively stopped,” says Radkey, who shared a log-in screen shot, taken at Salt Lake City’s Main Library last week, that reveals a red box reading: “Your account has been locked temporarily. Please try again later.”

“Obviously, they have been very concerned about the data that has been coming out and said, ‘We have do something about it,’ ” Radkey says, adding “of course” they are targeting me.

Asked whether the new restriction is directed at Radkey, LDS Church spokesman Michael Purdy released the following statement:

“The church is committed to preventing the misguided practice of submitting the names of Holocaust victims and prominent individuals for proxy baptism. In addition to reiterating its policy to members, the church has implemented a new technological barrier to prevent abuse of the New FamilySearch system. Anyone trying to access names that have been restricted will have their account suspended and be required to contact FamilySearch to establish their family relationship in order to have their access reinstated. Abuse of the system will result in the permanent loss of database access.”

In other words, “Stop embarrassing us by exposing our creepy, disrespectful rituals.”

Radkey did something great, though. Even if she can’t use their system anymore, her work has led to a slew of articles documenting another dumb religious ritual. Even if the proxy baptisms change nothing, shedding some light on this Mormon belief exposes yet another religious delusion.

(Thanks to Ubi Dubium for the link!)

About Hemant Mehta

Hemant Mehta is the chair of Foundation Beyond Belief and a high school math teacher in the suburbs of Chicago. He began writing the Friendly Atheist blog in 2006. His latest book is called The Young Atheist's Survival Guide.

  • http://twitter.com/bmovement Ben

    I’m trying to not be famous so I don’t get posthumously mormonized. So far so good.

    • Teri Springer

      Actually, that won’t help. They will take anyone. They actually collect obits on the internet and baptize everyone they can. It’s one way of paying one’s way into “heaven.”

  • Mike
    • Anonymous

      The fact that this story produced THAT website almost makes it all worthwhile :)

      Hey, I’m sure Donny and Marie wouldn’t mind knowing that their parents are now homosexual……right?

    • Blingkls

      OMG I loved that! Thank you for getting me to laugh today!

  • http://inmyunbelief.wordpress.com/ TCC

    Small (but significant) error: Elie Wiesel is not dead, although his name has been found on a list of “Jews to be baptized after they die.” But it hasn’t happened yet, since he is very much alive.

  • http://twitter.com/festafarian CB

    I was raised Jewish. Although I identify as an athiest, I still find this extremely distasteful. How dare they!

    A couple of weeks ago, one of their “missionaries” knocked on my door. I asked her if she had a doctorate in theology (obviously not).  I told her that I assumed she must be a genius or something to be so presumptious to think that she was smarter than me.
    Hebrew school taught me how to quote scripture, so I threw it back at her. I almost had her in tears. I felt kinda bad about it, but I think she may think twice about knocking on stranger’s doors.

    • Teri Springer

      “but I think she may think twice about knocking on stranger’s doors.”

      No she won’t. Because she has never been taught to think for herself but to do what she is told to by the men running the LDS church.

      • M Wilson

        It is easy to be snide but I believe there is so much more involved in this situation. I am an atheist now but I was raised in the Mormon church. I consider a lot of the Churches policies to be emotionally abusive. It has been a few years since I left the church but I think there are some things that will take me a long time to deal with.

        For anyone interested there is a website that tries to openly confront issues (many of the issues are historical)within the Mormon church. The website is mormonthink.com. It may give some insight.

        As far as baptisms for the dead go, I think the practice is incredibly disrespectful. Unfortunately, I don’t think this is something that will stop anytime soon. There is a lot of pressure placed on Mormons to work on family history and submit names to be baptized posthumously. One commenter hit it spot on when they mentioned that we are all related. If you try hard enough you can make all sorts of family connections. If I remember correctly members are now being asked to keep their searches to family members only but no one is defining what “family members only” really means or involves. Almost every Founding Father has been posthumously baptized and there are many other people as well. I really don’t think this practice is going to stop.

  • T-Rex

    How does one get baptized into the Moron, oops, I mean Mormon church? Do they beat you over the head with a golden plate whilst simultaneously wearing magic underwear? Kinda like having a voo doo curse put on you. In other words, meaningless superstitious ritual, just like all the rest. Fuckwits.

  • CMS

    I have been working on my family genealogy for the past two years.  The FamilySearch website is a fantastic tool.  I have even been to one of the churches in my area to have a look through microfilms.  In this respect, they are doing a wonderful job of preserving our past.

    But to baptize the deceased is weird and wrong. In their efforts to make themselves feel better they are hurting everyone else.

    • Anonymous

      The point is, baptizing the deceased is the entire reason WHY this tool exists. They aren’t doing it just to be nice!

  • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

    Wait until the CoS hears about this.  They’ll not only posthumously ‘clear’ you, but bill your estate for services rendered. 

    • KeithP

      Love this thought.

  • Anonymous

    If you try to access the main site, it tells you you that you have to register, and there are separate links for Mormons and non-Mormons. Being a genealogy site, you are expected to give your full name etc. Somehow, I’m not comfortable giving my full name plus the fact I’m not a Mormon to an explicitly Mormon site involved in a story about proxy baptisms…

    • M Wilson

      I think the worst that would happen would be the missionaries would stop by your home. Proxy baptisms are only done for the dead. Weird still I know.

  • Anonymous

    Someone, please ask Mitt about this bullshit.

    • MyScienceCanBeatUpYourGod

       Mitt has already exceeded several lifetimes worth of his allotted amount of bullshit.

  • Bonnie Taylor

    I just can’t get worked up about this. It’s all just make believe anyway. Maybe the Jews should respond by sitting shiva for dead famous Mormons.

    • http://www.suburbansweetheart.com/ Suburban Sweetheart

      If millions of your ancestors had been murdered just for being Jewish – yes, even the atheists who didn’t believe or practice but had that one drop in them – maybe you could find it in your heart to give a damn. This isn’t about religion, it’s about respect.

      • Bonnie Taylor

         A dead person can’t feel respected.

        And please, don’t play the “millions of dead Jews” card. That’s so last century. Just because your ancestors got murdered doesn’t mean you or your dead relatives deserve any more or less respect than anyone else.

        • http://www.suburbansweetheart.com/ Suburban Sweetheart

          Honestly, the only response I have to this is a hearty “screw you for being a douchebag.”

          • Bonnie Taylor

             Hey, you can’t disrespect me. Millions of my ancestors were murdered. Therefore I am exempt from my own douchebagginess.

            But thank you for outing yourself as a person who defends the respectability of dead people whilst having none for the living.

  • Brian Pansky

    “will have their account suspended and be required to contact
    FamilySearch to establish their family relationship in order to have
    their access reinstated.”So doesn’t that mean that it requires the families consent?  It seems that mostly the families would be outraged, but this rule is actually a good thing because it prevents baptisms when the family disapproves.Maybe I’m getting it wrong.  Besides, that is only for the certain dead people that have ‘restricted names’ and possibly not for a large quantity of other people.

    • Erp

       We are all related and the Mormons expend a great deal of effort on figuring out how.   I assume a few have Jewish ancestors and given that they can figure out that Anne Frank is a 7th cousin twice removed or something. 

      Personally I wonder how often Henry I of England has been baptized given that a very hefty chunk of people with English ancestry probably are descendants.

      • Anonymous

        I think you only need to be related to get the persons name put on the list. When it comes to actually getting the person baptized posthumously, the proxy doesn’t have to be related. What actually happens is really ridiculous. They have specific days, I think once a month, when the baptisms are done. It’s inside the temples, and people with temple recommends who wish to be proxies just show up. There’s a list of the dead who are going to be baptized and they take the name at the top of the list, do the baptism, and then go back to the end of the line. Repeat until the list is finished, or the proxies decide they are, which rarely happens.

  • KeithP

    I don’t see why people are getting upset by this. Sure, it is weird, but no more so than many other religious doctrines. Catholics and Protestants have been known to declare one another hellbound over matters of minor dogma. They both think Moslems are misguided. Christians in general view Jews as missing a pretty critical piece of truth. Lots of people questiom whether Mormons or JWs are even Christian.

    In a nutshell, each group thinks that all of the others are wrong and completely disregard most of the practices of the rival cults. The Mormons are saying some magic words, waving their hands around, and entering a name into a database. It hurts no one and gives the Mormons something to do. As far as I am concerned, they can baptize me and every one of my ancestors and it will have no effect on anything at all.

    • Anonymous

      I agree completely. If the Mormons were broadcasting the information about who they have posthumously baptized, or sending the information about it to living family members, that would be reason for them to be upset. If they’re doing it quietly, in their own delusional system, why go digging up that information? If someone insults you to your face, that’s one thing. Snooping through some stranger’s diary to see if they wrote anything bad about you is paranoia.

    • http://twitter.com/0xabad1dea Melissa

       Pointing out to a non-Mormon religious person how instinctive their offense is at the Mormon practice of renaming the religion of their deceased ancestors is a useful vehicle to getting them to think about how THEIR religious beliefs come across to other people.

      I don’t think very many people are for forcibly STOPPING the Mormons from doing this. Rather, we can dissect and criticize what the Mormons are doing, to arrive at a message about religion that the average mainstream Christian won’t refuse to listen to.

    • MyScienceCanBeatUpYourGod

       Weirdly, it’s less insulting to be told I’m going to hell than for someone to claim me as a believer of dogma I think is bull puckey.

      I don’t have a problem with religious nuts calling me evil but when they claim I’m as stupid as they are and imply that I agree with their delusions; well them’s fightin’ words.

  • Tinker

    I meant to sign up for this database earlier just to see if my relatives put my name on it, but alas, I may not get the chance now. I received this message when trying to create a new account:

    Your account is not ready for new.familysearch.org.Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.Please contact your ward clerk to ensure your Church membership record is correct and in your local unit. If your record is in order, the new FamilySearch website may not be available in your area.Volunteers who previously used new.familysearch.org.
    Click here to combine your previous and new accounts.General public. Look for a future announcement when you will have access to new.familysearch.org.Close

  • http://friendlyatheist.com Richard Wade

    It matters naught to me what hocus pocus some religious fruitcake performs regarding my “soul.” Let them wave their arms in the air and mumble their magic mumbo jumbo all they want. I will, quite literally, not give a damn.

    What puzzles me is why they do this proxy conversion piecemeal, one corpse at a time. Why not “baptize” all of humanity, past, present and future, all at once? POOF!

    WAIT! I’ll beat them to it!

    OWA…TANASS…AHYAM… (repeated rapidly) I, Richard Wade hereby use the Allmighty Power of Rational Thought and the Devastating Power of Sarcasm to hereby declare all human beings throughout all space and time, living, dead and yet to be born, from our most distant single-cell ancestors to our most distant what-ever-the-hell-they’ll-be descendants TO BE ATHEISTS!  This is irreversible and immutable, regardless of any denials or protestations to the contrary. So it has been, so it is, and so shall it be! POOF!

    Too late! Nyah nyah nya-nya nyaaahh!

    • Daedalus2u

       Why don’t they just block the ability to proxy baptize instead of blocking the ability to access the name and baptismal status? 

    • Anonymous

       I have to agree that when I die I won’t know or care what these idiots do. On the other hand, what part of one’s brain does one have to turn off to believe any of the nonsense of the moron (no, that is the right way to spell it) “church?” I guess it’s only slightly more idiotic than most other religions, other than maybe scientology, but still.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=700851737 Sam Kay

    I don’t see how doing this takes anyone’s “Jewishness” away. Just because the Mormon church claims that someone was Mormon doesn’t mean that they were.

    • http://www.suburbansweetheart.com/ Suburban Sweetheart

      Cool, then you won’t mind if I posthumously Baptize you & hold a ceremony proclaiming that you’ve been given to Jesus?

      • Wintermute

         I guess my response to that would be, if I’m dead, how would I even be in a position to care? The people who know me will know it’s BS, and the people who don’t know me, well, why would they care what I believed? For more famous folks, many will have left a body of work behind which should reveal their real thoughts (for example, when people claim America is a Christian nation, it’s easy enough to look up Thomas Jefferson and see what wrote about his beliefs).

        Don’t get me wrong, if somebody’s offended by this, then by all means, write articles, sue, whatever you like. It’s just hard for me to feel terribly outraged at the idea someone might do this to me.

        • Anonymous

          Ah, but these are the people keeping some of the best genealogical records in the world. Do you think they’d hesitate for a moment if, at some point in the future, they became even more dominant, and other records were lost/never there to begin with, to report these long-dead people  as *actual* Mormons?

          The point is, people DON’T always know BS when they see it, not if there isn’t someone around to point it out. Your “Christian Nation” example is a case in point. Huge numbers of people actually believe it to be true, and Dominionist politicians are actively trying to rewrite history to MAKE it true. If those same Dominionists come to power, and hold it long enough, it will be true, at least as far as anyone knows.

          Rewriting history is nefarious and dangerous.

      • Teri Springer

        Again. If it makes your deluded little mind happy, I really don’t care. Won’t change the fact that I am a happy Pagan and will remain one after I am dead. Calling me Chinese after I’m dead isn’t going to make it so….

        • http://www.suburbansweetheart.com/ Suburban Sweetheart

          You’re totally right, respect is so deluded.

        • Todd Smith

          Teri, you hit it right on the nose.  I am a Mormon.  And this is how my deluded mind thinks:  You’re a Pagan and will probably always be a Pagan.  Whether you get baptized by proxy in a Mormon Temple will not change your Pagan beliefs.  And, believe it or not, Mormons are not trying to change anyone’s beliefs either.  We do feel that we are right (I know deluded isn’t it?).  But just in case you do change your mind and do become a Mormon in the afterlife (I know, you don’t believe in an afterlife) we’re going to baptize you by proxy.  What harm did that do?  I’ll bet you won’t even know it happened.  So please, go laugh at my weird beliefs.  Call me strange and diluted.  But please, could you continue to fight for my right to be strange and diluted?  Thanx.  I’ll continue to fight for your right to believe what you believe.

    • Anonymous

      While it is true that a religious declaration of something isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on, I think there is value in pointing out this silly ritual, to show the world how silly they are.  It points out that they don’t think you were right enough spiritually that they will correct that flaw for you after you’re dead.

    • MyScienceCanBeatUpYourGod

      It’s just really insulting for someone you opposed in life to claim you actually agreed with them after you’re dead and unable to refute such claims. Normal people know Anne Frank wasn’t mormon but what kind of revisionist non-sense are they teaching their own? (And would they force the rest of us to believe if they could?)

      • Anonymous

        It’s just really insulting for someone you opposed in life to claim you actually agreed with them after you’re dead and unable to refute such claims.

        Bingo.

        I personally agree with Richard (and others) who have basically said “in the end, who cares, because it’s ALL nonsense”, but there is something inherently despicable about people knowingly disrespecting peoples’ self-identity……even if they’re no longer living.

      • Teri Springer

        They can claim me all they want. Doesn’t make it so….except in their deluded little brains….

  • walkamungus

    I want to have this line from Terry Pratchett’s _Going Postal_ on my tombstone:
    ” I commend my soul to any god that can find it.”

  • Scott Trimble

    I’m an atheist and I think Mormon beliefs are wacky, but, really, in this case, who cares?  I often use the Family History for non-religious genealogical research and I’m HAPPY that records like these are listed because they helps to preserve history (and the dead are dead so it’s not like they’re actually insulted by this).  Look at the bigger picture.

    • Scott Trimble

      * Typo.  I didn’t mean to write “Family History” but
      instead “Family Search website”.

      Just as Muslims
      shouldn’t care if other people draw pictures of Mohammed, WE shouldn’t care if
      Mormons have these posthumous baptism records. 
      It doesn’t affect us and it doesn’t affect the dead either.  It’s simply Mormon kookiness that has the nice
      side effect of preserving historical vital records.

  • Anonymous-Sam

    Now watch, and it’ll turn out the Qur’an was right all along and Jews and Christians can get into Heaven on a technicality or with clever arguments — but all these posthumously baptized Morman-Whatevers are now found guilty of polytheism, which the Qur’an strikes down flat. Now all these people go to Hell when they might have nipped in the back door. Way to go, Mormans. D:<

  • John

    Criticize Mormon beliefs all you want, but that’s not what this is. This is classic strawman BS. The fact is, Mormons don’t believe that baptisms for the dead “magically” turn anyone into Mormons. The actual belief is that BFTD opens the metaphorical door – the person in question retains the choice to walk through or not – or to become Mormon, or not. It’s likely that you’ve been corrected on this numerous times already. The fact that you persist in describing the belief as “turning people into Mormons” is, frankly, beginning to look like bigotry. So mock away, but have the integrity to mock real beliefs – not a convenient caricature. 

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=553145445 Gordon Duffy

       sorry your difference doesn’t seem to be  difference.

    • Brian Pansky

       Yes, it’s good to have accuracy.

      Instead of having the effect of ‘suddenly turns the person into a mormon’ it has the effect of a metaphorical key to the metaphorical door which can be chosen.

      The funny thing is that this is equally ludicrous.

    • Isilzha

      I’d be surprised that many Mormons believe that those offered this choice actually refused.  The belief is that this dead person is now in a position to see the ‘truth’ and are being punished for their lapse to find it in life.  Therefore, when this person is offered a way out of torment then they will take that option without fail.  For a mormon to believe that a dead person refuses this option would necessitate that they also believe that multiple truths exist and the deceased is happy with their afterlife of choice.

      • John

        You’re wrong about this. Most Mormons believe that the choice is very much a real one – and that many will refuse. Indeed, the legitimacy of the choice is essential in order to make the choice meaningful – or in other words, for real “free agency” – another central Mormon belief.
        What you’ve done here, is make a lazy assumption about another’s beliefs so that you can continue making the same criticism that was just discredited. Or as the dictionary calls it – prejudice. 

        Full disclosure:  I’m a non-believing, non-attending, atheist member of the LDS church – but I grew up in the church and attended regularly for approximately 38 years. I personally performed BFTD, and all of the other temple ordinances.  

    • Teri Springer

      Just because they are “real beliefs” doesn’t make them any less delusional….

    • John

      I agree that the belief is delusional, wacky, magic, woo, whatever you want to call it – my only point was that accuracy matters when making a critique or argument, and that the willingness to persist in perpetuating a caricature, even after corrections have been repeatedly offered – at least resembles bigotry.

  • http://twitter.com/Three_Star_Dave Dave Hill

    I find the practice goofy and possibly offensive but (to me) hardly all that horrifying — as noted, whether one is a believer or not, it seems unlikely that terrestrial Mormonizing will have any magical effect on the departed.

    The question is, are the steps taken in the article actually designed to block whistleblowers like Radley, or to block people looking for more unbaptized famous folks to baptize (which seems to be the claim).  If the latter, then the LDS is actually to be lauded for trying to stop a practice they have previously already officially condemned.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=597605006 Mary Driftwood

    Another creepifying aspect of this whole thing is that some LDS churches (I can’t prove all; just report what my Mormon boyfriend told me in high school) use children to stand in for the dead during these proxy baptisms. So little kids in white robes getting baptised over and over again in the name of dead people who never wanted to be Mormons. There is nothing okay about this.

    • A D

      This is true. I was one of those children many years ago. Signed, the ex-Mormon.

    • Anonymous

       The only requirement is that you have a temple recommend, which you can get as young as 12 years old.

    • Toddsmith

      I just wanted to uncreepify your misinformation a little.  LDS Churches do not do baptisms for the dead.  Ever.  Never have and never will.  LDS Temples do.  And there is a BIG difference between a Temple and a Church.  All young men who are baptized for the dead in our Temples are Priesthood holders and at least Deacons in our Church.  They pass the sacrament on Sunday.  The young ladies must be of the same age: at least 12.  I’m not saying that’s still not creepy to athiests.  I know very little about your beliefs.  But I respect you.  I think it takes a lot of faith to not believe in a god.  I just wanted to put your mind put your mind at ease by letting you know that the creepy things that you stated as facts are not, never have been true and never will be true.

      • Jazzzenda

        Temple reccomend… Hahahaha!
        Now there’s a difinitive profile of spirit and character! Bishop whoever asks and brother/sister whoever answer “of course”! It’s a done deal!
        Now you are ready to be awarded, kingdoms, thrones, principalities, and harems on high! Right!

      • Deven_Kale

         I think you misunderstood Mary’s point here somewhat. The part she thought creepy wasn’t that is was churches doing the baptisms, which you clarified they don’t. It also had nothing to do with which level of priesthood they had. It didn’t even have anything to to with the temple recommends.

        The creepy part is “little kids in white robes getting baptised over and over again in the name of dead people who never wanted to be Mormons.” No amount of spinning or explanation is ever going to make that sound okay to people like her. I was raised as a mormon so I can tolerate it myself, but I still don’t like it one bit.

  • http://felicityk.livejournal.com/ Felicity

    I am an atheist, but my Dad is descended from Jewish immigrants. His grandparents left Eastern Europe in the early 1900s. Relatives of theirs that did not leave were likely victims of the Holocaust.

    Even though I don’t believe in a soul or an afterlife, I am offended by the collossal arrogance of the Mormon practice. Anyone who would assume that people who were Jews in life, who died BECAUSE they were Jews, might want the “option” of becoming Mormon in death because they “didn’t know any better” in life, is worthy only of my contempt.

    • Isilzha

      Yes, it doesn’t matter that the ritual does nothing and can change nothing about who a person was in life.  It’s the arrogance of those who believe in the ritual that’s so infuriating.  I think the ‘all dead mormans are now gay’ approach it on the right track, but needs to be taken further.  It needs to hit closer to the fundamentals of the morman belief system.  How about, ‘all dead mormans are now divorced’?  Or perhaps, ‘all dead mormans are dethroned from their planetary rule and now xenu’s slaves’?

    • Anonymous

      Felicity wrote:

      Even though I don’t believe in a soul or an afterlife, I am offended by the colossal arrogance of the Mormon practice. Anyone who would assume that people who were Jews in life, who died BECAUSE they were Jews, would want the “option” of becoming Mormon in death because they “didn’t know any better” in life, is worthy only of my contempt.

      Nicely said, Felicity.

    • http://religionsetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Joshua Zelinsky


      Anyone who would assume that people who were Jews in life, who died BECAUSE they were Jews, would want the “option” of becoming Mormon in death because they “didn’t know any better” in life, is worthy only of my contempt.

      Really though? As far as I can tell, this attitude makes logical sense if the Mormons actually believe what they say they believe.  Regardless of how an individual died, if the Mormons are right, the person goes to the afterlife and then finds out that the Mormons were right after all. In that context, I expect most people would actually convert given the chance.  That something is offensive has little to do with whether or not it is logically consistent. 

  • Darthcynic

    I’d echo John’s sentiments somewhat, as it says here in the article, “Still, it can be hurtful to the relatives of the people who are now magically Mormon as well as anyone who wants to reserve their legacy.”  Without delving into the full ‘n’ whacky details, the baptism for the dead is a practice mandated by his worshipfulness on high so that all his children are subjected to the required criteria for getting into heaven.  After jebus comes back the big man upstairs will magic up all the names of those many folks who lived and died without record and before records ever appeared for BFTDs.  But it’s all a proxy service for the disembodied soul in the afterlife, they don’t automatically become Mormon, they have to accept it there and can still deny it; though that seems unlikely if you’re in spiritville and being asked whether you’d like to accept this baptism or not.

    It’s high silliness to be sure like many a religious belief is but it’s hardly any worse than the fact that by being Jewish, Buddhist or whatever means to a number of Christians that those folks will burn in the fires of hell for the rest of eternity.  These pieces of dogma don’t seem to bother those of other faiths so I don’t see why the internal beliefs of Mormons would bother them either.  Is their faith that weak that they think the empty rituals of some other lot poses a real threat to their god and afterlife?

  • Jackie

    I think the term “necro-baptism”  is more apt than “baptism by proxy.”

  • http://twitter.com/KathyOrlinsky Kathy Orlinsky

    Let’s make a deal.  The Mormons can have everyone who’s dead as long as they never interfere with anyone who’s alive.

  • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson
  • Anonymous

    Actually, the Mormons don’t even suggest that this makes dead people Mormons. Rather they say that baptism is required to go to Heaven and this gives the dead person an option to choose to go to Heaven or not. Equally stupid, but less insulting, I think, and ultimately pointless either way, so let’s focus on the Mormon’s attack on gay rights instead. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Sandy-Kokch/100000074576649 Sandy Kokch

    I differ with Hemant here radically, and maybe my viewpoint is arguably extreme and too rigid. However, I maintian that this is not just some dumb religious flummery – I maintain that this is a direct act of desecration of the dead. To me this is as despicable and hideous as the fascists who desecrate Jewish graveyards and smash the headstones. Or as despicable as the US soldiers who spray painted graffitti and their unit insignia on the Iraqi Iran/Iraq war memorials in Baghdad. Or the soldiers pisssing on dead bodies….

    I may be an atheist who doesnt believe in the hereafter, and maybe its because Im a Brit and so dont tolerate free speech nonsense when it becomes twisted into an act of hate, but this is a despicable practice that should be condemnded in the loudest of terms. 

    Maybe someone needs to take a class action against these rats and sue the arse off them.

    • John

      ” I maintain that this is a direct act of desecration of the dead.”
      Actually, it is, by definition, indirect. The baptisms are performed by a proxy – nothing is done to the dead. You do understand what “direct” means right? Oh right, you were just hyperbole to stir up hate.”To me this is as despicable and hideous as the fascists who desecrate Jewish graveyards and smash the headstones. Or as despicable as the US soldiers who spray painted graffitti and their unit insignia on the Iraqi Iran/Iraq war memorials in Baghdad. Or the soldiers pisssing on dead bodies….”You have a seriously messed up sense of equivalency. Mormons do this “for” dead people out of love. Whether you believe this or not, that is what they are feeling – not hate. I mean, for crying in the sink, they do this for their own deceased relatives. The comparison to Nazis, and soldiers pissing on dead bodies is total and complete nonsense. It’s nothing less than absurd bigotry and hate speech.

    • Jazzzenda

      Agree!

  • Anonymous

    We could look at it another way. What if the KKK invited your loved ones to posthumously join them, holding proxy inductions complete with cross burning in their honor. 

    I’m sure that would be pretty offensive. It sounds pretty similar to me.

  • Todd Smith

    I am totally flabergasted by what’s being stated on this and other websites.  I know nobody here is a Mormon (except me).  In fact you think that Mormons are crazy.  So?  Athiests believe there is no Heaven or Hell (either do Mormons, by the way).  So what’s wrong with somebody baptizing you?  Jews believe that if you aren’t Jewish you’re going to Hell.  Catholics, Methodists, Baptists, Evangelists all believe the same thing about people who aren’t of their faith.  The only people who are tolerant of people who aren’t of their faith, as far as I can see, are the Atheists and the Mormons. 

    Atheists don’t believe in Hell, so no one needs to get baptized.  Mormons believe that everyone will have the opportunity to accept their faith in the afterlife, so they baptize everyone.  I can see why you think Mormons are crazy.  Frankly, I think you need to be a little off to be one of us.  But why are you upset at us?  That’s our question.  We do strange things.  But we’re nice people.  Can’t we just get along.?  Accept the fact that we’re going to baptize you.  Since there is no afterlife, what difference does it make?  I would that free thinkers would understand that.

  • Ms. K

    I am half Mormon half Jew… I know it is one Hell of a combination! I watch my Mormon side of the family and I am rarely shocked by their odd behaviors…. UNTIL I learned that 12 year olds baptize for the dead!! Yes, you heard me correctly. When a Mormon child turns 12 they go to the temple and are brought into the baptisimal font in the temple and a man dunks them under the water while reading name after name after name after name of the dead… A child of 12 can do hundreds of these baptisms in one session! As if this all wasnt bad enough but now they are forcing children to do it! If the child is deamed “unworthy” to perform these rituals then they are shunned, punished and publicaly ashamed for it! For Gods sake if the Mormons want to be foolish can they at least wait until a child becomes an adult to make that decision?!?

    • Deven Kale

       That’s not how it works at all. In order to do baptisms for the dead, a person has to have a temple recommend, which is easy to get but very few 12 year olds bother getting them. Even then, actually doing it is completely voluntary and all Mormons fully understand (and encourage) that. I have never heard of anybody, at any age, being ostracized or persecuted in any way for being unwilling to do baptisms for the dead. Even while I was a Mormon, those who actually gave a damn about who did it were rather gentle in their encouragement.

      As for what happens within the temple at the font, I have no idea. I never went there myself, but I highly doubt that it’s “hundreds of times” per person, especially for children.

      The Mormon church has plenty of good reasons to be hated and/or laughed at already. There’s no point in making up stuff like this in order to try and make it seem worse. Trust me, it’s already bad enough.

  • Guest

    Ever think the reason names are entered multiple times into the database because malicious agenda driven people like Radkey keep submitting them over and over?


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