In his talk at the Global Atheist Convention in Melbourne, PZ Myers gave a talk on “Sacking The City Of God!“:
I am only a few minutes into it but this is Brillant!
Great talk. Thank you for posting.
He’s right. Science has power. Medicine. Industry. Factories. Invention. Automobiles. Rockets. iPads. Mushroom clouds. Biological weapons. Gas chambers. Weapons of war – why none of it could have happened without science. And Mr. Myers does an excellent job explaining why, when all we trust is science, we will end up with all of the aforementioned every time. For if science gets the credit for every invention ever made, it also gets the blame.
So, does that mean you give “god” all the credit and all the blame for stuff like birds and trees and dogs, marijuana, peyote, smallpox, cancer, influenza, genocide of near the whole human race? For if “god” created everything, he created and deserves credit/blame for all the bad stuff in the history of the world, yes?
God isn’t the topic in this case, but Myer’s somewhat flippant use and abuse of the term science. We can deal with the problem of theodicy some other time.
Science isn’t an agent who can accept credit or blame. It’s a process. Humans thinking scientifically and using the tools of science to make discoveries that cure disease or create iPads get the credit. Humans using the tools of science to commit atrocities get the blame.
This isn’t that hard.
Then he shouldn’t give it credit. And I won’t give it blame.
Science was the first recorded murderer in the history of man? Wasn’t that Cain?
Not if you don’t believe the Bible. Even if you do, it depends on how you read it. But according to Myers, science is why I’m here. As opposed to religion. I was just having some fun at such a lazy, Glenn Beckish take on science. Heck, I didn’t even bother pointing out that Myers makes the common error of confusing science and technology, as if the two are one and the same. See the wonderful Michael Flynn for a good unpacking of that myth.
I guess it’s a good thing then that “all we trust” is not only science.
And that’s the better way. I was more less lampooning Myers’ lazy misuse of the term science when it suited him.
Yes, we get it, DG, you despise science, knowledge, and reality with every fiber of your being.
But you can only manage to express your hatred of science through the products of that very science you so despise. Funny, that. How about you get rid of that evil compute you’re typing on, and get back to us when your imaginary god teaches you how to post idiotic bullshit online by prayer? Oh, yeah, you won’t even try that, because you know damn well that you’re full of shit and you wouldn’t last five minutes without science.
Another brilliant mind missing the mark. Again.
Interesting… A little insecure in your deeply held beliefs?
The only thing that make me worry is the lack of self-accountability that I witness many atheists side on. In truth, the musings of Myers, Dawkins and the like only strengthens my faith.
Also interesting. Other than your own statements, do you have any data to support your beliefs? I ask because all the data I’ve seen has suggested that non-believers are significantly more Accountable than believers, by every measure that has been recorded. Do you have contradictory data?
He has the sworn testimony of the voices in his head…
Thanks for posting this. I love PZ, and the Friendly Athiest!
This was a wonderful speech. Absolutely wonderful. Thank you for posting it, Hemant. =)
The bit you should pay special attention to is between 00:01 and 42:34. Skip the rest.
Too bad he’s not a very good speaker.
I’m sure you are better …
I don’t think that’s a good retort.
As long as Sutra Stevens doesn’t make a name for himself speaking, is that even a valid reply?
I mean, people might say that Micheal Bay isn’t a very good director without the response being “oh yeah, let’s see YOU do his job”.
it wasnt a good criticism so it didnt deserve a good retort.
My favorite quote from the talk…
“We are not sheep. There are no shepherds here.” – PZ Myers
Followed by the sound of “baaaa” echoing throughout the hall.
I used to identify as a Saganist Atheist, but I think at this point, I’m fully a Myersian.
It makes me wonder howPZ Myers justifies anyone of his knowledge claims unless he starts with God. He must appeal to his senses and reasons. How does he know his senses and reason are valid? Without appealing to his senses and reason. To validate his senses and reason. The atheist is a walking bundle of contradictions. He reason and does science but he deny the one true God that makes reason and science possible. If our central nervous system came about by time chance and natural process upon what basis do you trust your reason and cognitive faculty’s? When they very process they arose where mindless impersonal chaos. The bottom line and atheist must appeal to his senses and reason to validate his senses and reason. How do you know if your senses and reason are valid because i appeal to my senses and reason? Sorry that is viciously circular.
Presuppositionalism is only convincing to the mentally deficient and the terminally brainwashed. No one with a functioning brain will ever fall for the shit you’re spewing, Njchristianmale.
It makes me wonder how Njchristianmale justifies anyone of his knowledge claims unless he starts with Princess Celestia. He must appeal to his senses and reasons. How does he know his senses and reason are valid? Without appealing to his senses and reason. To validate his senses and reason. The christian is a walking bundle of contradictions. He babble and speak nonsense but he deny the Magical Winged Unicorn Princess that makes reason and science possible.
There you go, your argument works every bit as well when applied to a cartoon character. Which proves either that your argument is a load of worthless bullshit, or that your god is no more real or worthy of worship than a character in a show about magic ponies made to entertain little girls. Take your pick. Of course, just like every other presuppositionalist moron, you’ll just babble more idiocy and refuse to even look in the general direction of reality, because you know you’re full of shit.
How about basing things of evidence and observation? It seems to work better than magic. It allowed you to post your bizarre viewpoint. Unless you posted by prayer?
Here is a perfect example of PZ MYERS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxGBjrURht4&list=UUQy8MZmdj7GKd7LSnMLyyBw&index=5&feature=plcp
i absolutely loved this. thanks for sharing. i am all for the sacking of said city. in fact, i think it would be great if we could start setting up re-purposing committees now so we can turn all these magnificent churches, cathedrals, mosques, and synegogues into places that harmlessly contribute to communities and societies – no strings attached!