Cheerleaders at Texas High School Angry Because They Can’t Hold Up Biblical Run-Through Signs at Football Games

At a lot of high school football games, to pump up the crowd and the players, the cheerleaders hold some sort of large paper sign in front of the tunnel and the players *burst* through it as they make their way onto the field.

If you’re in Kountze, Texas, though, the signs look very out of place for a public high school:

Hmm… how did Bible verses become an official part of the Kountze High School football games? This isn’t just a group of students praying on their own — this is part of the ritual for the Lions’ home games.

Recently, someone complained about the practice and the superintendent — presumably knowing that what they were doing was illegal — told the cheerleaders they had to put a stop to it.

Guess what? The community isn’t taking this news well. A Facebook group called “Support Kountze Kids Faith” has gained over 7,000 followers in less than a day. By the time you read this, I suspect local news channels will have already covered the story.

Maybe someone should tell all these people about the cheerleaders at Lakeview-Fort Oglethorpe High School in Georgia. In 2009, they were doing the exact same thing:

The school board put a stop to their proselytizing before a lawsuit was filed and saved the district who-knows-how-much money. Even more interesting was that the parent who complained was a graduate of Jerry Falwell‘s Liberty University. When even a super-conservative Christian knows that this method of spreading faith is a bad idea, schools should take the hint.

By the way, in Georgia, the students and parents responded by bringing their own religious signs into the stands — something that is perfectly legal and no one complained about.

The Christians in Kountze should learn a lesson from their Georgia counterparts before they are embroiled in a lawsuit. It doesn’t matter if the town is majority Christian. It doesn’t matter if the cheerleaders and football players are, either. This is a public school, not a church. You can’t use a football game to preach your faith.

As I wrote in 2009, I would love to know how the cheerleaders (and Christian supporters) would feel if they had to hold up a banner reading:

“There’s probably no god. Now stop worrying and play the game.”

If they have the slightest bit of discomfort with that, then they need to stop with their Bible verses.

The commenters on the Facebook group are acting like they’re martyrs in a struggle worthy of an awful Kirk Cameron movie. They’re not. They’re just Christians who think it’s their duty to push their faith everywhere they go and who don’t care one bit about how the Muslims and Jews and atheists and other non-Christians in their community might feel.

If they don’t put a stop to it themselves and take the high road, then a judge will do it for them. And the group that files the lawsuit against the school stands to rake in a good chunk of money from either the district or the Christian group defending them.

(Thanks to Faithless Female for the link!)

About Hemant Mehta

Hemant Mehta is the editor of Friendly Atheist, appears on the Atheist Voice channel on YouTube, and co-hosts the uniquely-named Friendly Atheist Podcast. You can read much more about him here.

  • Fileunderaction

    They should put Luke 19:27 on one of their banners.

    And as for these enemies of mine who didn’t want me to be their king–bring them in and execute them right here in front of me.

    or Judges 19:25

    But the men would not listen to him. So the man took his concubine and sent her outside to them, and they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go.

    • Stev84

      Nothing can beat Ezekiel 23:19-21

      • Fileunderaction

        1 Peter 2:18

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/James-Buchy/542338898 James Buchy

           I wonder how well “Allahu Akbar” would go over? After all, it simply means “God is great”, something they should agree with.

        • Baal

           I had to look this one up – it’s more or less telling slaves to obey their masters.  Some of newer bibles change it to servants.  I love that Ezekiel verse btw.  It was one of the first that I read and went WTF!

    • Amakudari

      Never a bad time to suggest Psalms 137:9:

      Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.

    • Grizzz

      No No:

      Ezekial 23:20

      There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

      • Tainda

        Is that the first mention in history of a donkey show?

        • Grizzz

          Couldn’t say for sure, but I do know that anytime I am around old testament lovers I am wearing gloves and eye goggles….

          • Baal

             So you can be protected while participating?

            • Grizzz

              I’m not saying no….

              • Tainda

                Approach from the right…

  • http://friendlyatheist.com Richard Wade

    How come they don’t use verses talking about killing your enemies and hearing the lamentation of their women, and wholesome football-sounding combat stuff like that? 

    “Bash the other team’s babies’ brains out!” –God

    That oughta put some spirit into the game.

    • Andrew B.

       “hearing the lamentation of their women,”

      I think you’re thinking of St. Conan, from First Barbarians…

      • WoodyTanaka

        LOL.  Like there’s a difference.

    • B_R_Deadite99

       -Conan, what is best in life?

      -To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women. –First Barbarians, chapter one, verses 25-27.

  • Keith Collyer

    One implication of these signs is that when they win, it’s down to magic man, but when they lose they never infer that magic man was supporting the other side, even if the opponents also have similar signs

    • Willy Occam

      God works in mysterious ways, you know….

  • Rich Samuels

    Christ clearly hasn’t strengthened their kerning skills.

    • TiltedHorizon

      I was going to comment on the spacing only to find you beat me to it AND that there is a word for that: “kerning”.

      Jeers! On being beaten to the punch. Cheers! On learning something new. 

      • Stev84

         http://xkcd.com/1015/

        • TiltedHorizon

           I am now afflicted with an obsessive need to fix bad kerning. Damn it.
          :)
           

          • Grizzz

            When I went to University I got me some fancy kern-learning. 

            AHhhahahahahahHAHAHAHAHahahahahahahahAHHahahaha

            I love it when epic fails like this happen. Call it zeitgeist, but DAMN is it funny!

          • Sindigo

            My heart goes out to you, man. My wife has never forgiven me for pointing kerning out to her.

            Since you’re a new convert to kerning snobbery, I think I need to mention the ubiquity of  Comic Sans…

            • Tainda

              Comic Sans gets a bad rap!

              • TiltedHorizon

                 I think this site needs to support it. Comments from loving Christians like, 
                “You are all going to hell” would appear much more playful and less threatening.

              • Sindigo

                Don’t start me off dude. ;)

    • http://www.facebook.com/kimberly.bryan.50 Kimberly Bryan

      NOR yours you cant even spell learning correct…so dont shove your crap down our throats

      • TiltedHorizon

         Kimberly Bryan Sez:”NOR yours you cant even spell learning correct…so dont shove your crap down our throats”

        LOL.

        kerningpresent participle of kern (Verb)
        Verb:Adjust the spacing between (letters or characters) in a piece of text to be printed.Make (letters) overlap.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=123400843 Stu Minnis

        Please please please please don’t be a poe. Please be real. Please be a real person who thinks she just got in a zinger with that “sentence.” Please have just demonstrated all our basest stereotypes of the faithful. Please? Pretty please?

        • Amakudari

          Well, she appears on the Facebook page as a member. Your prayer seems to have been answered.

          • MargueriteF

            “Your prayer seems to have been answered.”

            Funny how God answers stuff like that, but he can’t even win a lousy football game.

            • JohnnieCanuck

              God almost always wins a football game. The only time He doesn’t is when He ends up in a tie with Himself.

              • Tainda

                Or Chuck Norris

                • namansingh210287

                  Chuck does not play with kids

      • Stev84

         *facepalm*

      • Jennifer English

        Oh, these liberal elitists with their fancy words always acting smug and superior with their education.

        • Kmac1526

           Too bad I’m not a liberal elitist, just someone who separates church and state as it should be. This is a PUBLIC school run by the GOVERNMENT. Church doesn’t belong in our schools, our fancy education does. This is a public school activity that has no place for your god.

        • Kmac1526

           Hold the phone, I’m a retard. I think this was sarcasm and I’m too drunk to realize it until now.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mary-Creekmore/1030966779 Mary Creekmore

          All of us have access to dictionary.com.  Doesn’t make you brilliant.

      • michael both

        Hah, thanks for the best laugh I’ve had all day.

      • Tainda

        I honestly just choked on my coffee!

      • Grizzz

        Holy Fucking FAIL!!!!

        Perhaps a lesson in vocabulary is in order for this little angry sumbitch’!!!

        This is TOO great! I wish this fail could be a permanent fixture around here!!!

      • Sindigo

        You do know that you’re posting on a blog about Atheism, right?

      • Tommy

        LOL. I love how you told Rich “not to shove your crap down our throats” while you support the students who want to shove their views down everyone’s throats and pass it off as freedom of speech/religion/whatever else made up interpretation you and Southeast Texas has deemed as a right. Pitiful.

      • Baal

         I’ve run into words I don’t know often enough to pull out the google and check them before I post in anger.

      • Marshapetry

        best comment ever.  Thanks for the chuckle.

      • ganner

        Failboat: http://www.geekosystem.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/failboat.jpg

      • http://profiles.google.com/conticreative Marco Conti

        YES! Thank you for this spectacular fail of a comment. Amazing that in the era of Google people still can’t look up words they don’t know.

      • Drew M.

         Thank you for that. I can’t remember the last time I laughed so hard at a comment. :D

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/K4AZAYEVGMOVFUAUDNANMUFU3U Bg G

        Thank you for that Kimberly. I was having a rough day, and needed a really good laugh. Priceless. 

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1340194883 Mark Burns
  • michael both

    Reading the comments on that ‘support’ Facebook page makes me feel physically ill. I can hardly imagine how I might feel if I was on the team and not a Christian.

    • http://www.facebook.com/kimberly.bryan.50 Kimberly Bryan

      Get over it…This kids have just as much rights as you have to say what you want…

      • Willy Occam

        Sure, they have every right to say what they want; I don’t think that was the point that michael both was making.  I think his response (as mine) has to do with the rantings of the simple-minded, brainwashed people who have no clue about the concept of “separation of church and state.”  Almost every one of the comments on that Facebook page demonstrated some degree of cultural or constitutional ignorance, and I feel for any non-Christians living over there in Jesustown.

        • michael both

          Yes, thanks for clarifying things. ;)

        • Drew M.

           I feel sorry for the brainwashed kids too.  Poor tykes never stood a chance. :(

      • Pipes32

         So you’d be totally cool with your child holding up a “ALLAHU AKBAR” sign, right?

        Freedom from religion protects us AND you, too.

        • MargueriteF

          I’d like to see a nice Wiccan sign, myself. I’m sure these nice religious folks wouldn’t want to see Mabon slip by without recognition from the school.

          • TheBlackCat

             I can think of one even better

      • StarStuff

        Not at a public school they don’t.  If you want your cheerleaders to pray & hold up christy signs, take them to parochial school.  Better yet, homeschool.

  • jdm8

    That’s awful wordy too. Don’t secular ones say something concise like “Go Team”?

  • A3Kr0n

    Wouldn’t ripping through bible verses be considered very disrespectful of the bible? I sure think it is.

    • http://twitter.com/PirateFroglet Cathy McGrath

      That was my first thought too.

    • Blacksheep

      You’re thinking of the Quran.

  • http://exconvert.blogspot.com/ Kacy

     Thank you for raising awareness about our local issues, Hemant.  I can assure you that FFRF was contacted. 

  • Tainda

    Do they really think, if god was real, he would give a flying fuck about a high school football game?  College?  Maybe.  :P

    • http://www.facebook.com/kimberly.bryan.50 Kimberly Bryan

      Your such a sad and lost soul

      • Fritzy

        Kimberly, you’re such a sad, trite troll.

        Be more creative and insightful or go elsewhere–we’ve heard this all before

      • michael both

        Now double the irony considering your accusation in another post of incorrect spelling for a word that wasn’t even misspelled. (hint ‘you’re’).

      • http://exconvert.blogspot.com/ Kacy

         I smell a troll.

        • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/ Kevin_Of_Bangor

          Sadly, she is being serious.

          Kimberly Bryan YES you would be very mad i went tthere and i had to say something i know i shouldnt have but come on they are sick and lost souls…

      • Glasofruix

        Btw it’s “you’re” as in “you are”.

        What do you kids learn in schools these days? I’m not fluent in english yet and even I know the difference.

      • Thin-ice

        Looks like Kimberly got 2 or 3 of her Christian friends to swing by here as well. No way could she get 3 “likes” out of Hemant’s readers!

        • amycas

           Maybe she could get them from the “ironic, hipster” Meht-heads…

        • Drew M.

           I dunno. The learning/kerning was worthy of a like, even though it was accidental.

    • Tbrothers2883

      Well if you don’t like it don’t look at it. That’s what i have to say about it these kids are doing nothing wrong and your not even from our town so keep you nose where it belong’s cause you come here you may get it chopped off

      • TiltedHorizon

        If you don’t like Tainda’s comment; don’t look at the post. Feel free to take your own advice. 

      • Geezie

        “keep you nose where it belong’s cause you come here you may get it chopped off”Is that what “good Christians” are up to these days? Mutilating people for expressing an opinion?

        • Geezie

          Apparently my kerning skills are off, too. 

          • Tainda

            That made me laugh lol  Thanks, I needed that :)

        • JD

          I found a link to this site on google, so decided to come check it out.  Please know that not all Christians are okay with comments like the one made by “tbrothers2883″.  Though as a Christian I don’t agree with your views, I think everyone deserves to be talked to and disagreed with in a respectful manner.  

      • Tainda

        You couldn’t pray me there.  Also, your little threats make me laugh.

        You do understand that it’s not the message we are opposed to, it’s the fact that children that aren’t christian are made to feel bad because of your proselytizing?  You think of NO ONE but yourself and anyone that is different is evil.  Faith is a very personal thing, keep it to yourself!

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mary-Creekmore/1030966779 Mary Creekmore

          The children feel bad?  Why?  Children are exposed to all sorts of trash via TV, movies, books, video games and that’s okay.  How is a Bible verse hurting anyone?  Libraries won’t filter porn to protect children, yet they must be protected for a Bible verse?

          • B_R_Deadite99

             More irrelevant shite. Exposure to “trash” in TV, video games and books is a matter of choice. No one holds a gun to somebody’s head and makes them watch Spartacus: Blood & Sand. And in order to view pornography, one must either search for it or click on a link to it, so it’s still choice. Soliciting your cult at a football game forces everyone to view what you want them to see, and it’s crap. If you want to praise your non-existent god, do it at home and church, where it is appropriate. It’s also funny how Jesus himself commanded his followers not to turn their faith into a spectacle like the Pharisees and hypocrites, which makes you and everyone on that FB page a heretic.

      • TristanLawksley

        Threats of violence… typical.

      • Grizzz

        Ahhh yes, spoken with true “Texas Christian” (copyright) love…..that’s right folks, Texas Christian Love, now with 87-percent more death threats and hate!

        Come on down to Texas and feel the Christian Love ooze pure aggression and hate in the Lone Star State.

        Hey Texan, go play with your gun and accidentally shoot your remaining 1/4 brain through the roof of your skull.

      • Katie

        Tbrothers2883,

        Please watch your language. I don’t know if you are a Christian, but most people on here are assuming that you are. That being said, your posts and comments are being taken as the opinion of every Christian in this situation and I for one am not looking to chop anyone’s nose off. I mean this with the utmost respect and truly hope that you understand my heart on this. Our God is not only a God of love, but is Love Himself. In that respect, we are to exude love in everything we do. Please keep your threats to yourself. We are a nation with freedom of speech, not just freedom of religion. So if they want to voice their opinions in rejection of these signs, just like we voice our opinions of support, please allow them that courtesy without threat or judgement.

        • WoodyTanaka

          ” Our God is not only a God of love, but is Love Himself”

          Yeah, that’s the conclusion I keep reaching whenever I read about him drowning all the babies, infants and toddlers in the world to death in the flood.  Love is the ONLY word that comes to mind…

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Chris-Leithiser/593361421 Chris Leithiser

             He was just jeal0us of Ba’al.  If YHWH can’t have the babies, NOBODY can.

          • Paul N

            If that is the case, it shows how loveless we are. How many people are suffering in this world and we don’t do anything about it?

        • nakedanthropologist

          Thank you, Katie.  While I think what the cheerleaders are doing is wrong (not that they have faith, but rather that they’re using a public school sponsored platform to proselytize) I must say that I respect your response to Tbrother.  Please don’t take this the wrong way, but as a closeted atheist in a very southern and christian town, its good to hear a rational response from a Christian person.  Most of the religious dialogue I hear is very negative, and almost always from a Christian perspective.  So for what its worth, thank you.

          • Grizzz

            I go back ond forth and whether to thank a christian for acting as their user manual says they should.

            One the one hand, I feel that because it seems to be a brave step for the christian they should be given a thank you.

            On the other hand, I feel they should not be thanked for doing what they are SUPPOSED to do in the first place. 

          • Anonymous Atheist

            The religious teacher going up against the religious principal to support the gay cosmetology student was a breath of fresh air too.

        • http://profiles.google.com/conticreative Marco Conti

          Katie, while I disagree with you on the “god of love” and “love himself” statements, I certainly agree with you with the spirit of your post. 

          What you are actually saying is that in a civil discussion there is no place for threats. Those that make the threats automatically are in the wrong and that reflects badly on your argument. 

          I disagree with your point that the cheerleaders should be allowed to display the sign and the US Constitution agrees with me. You and  Tbro disagree and think you are the wronged party. 
          Fair enough. 

          We are all humans, we have a right to disagree and we have a right to voice our disagreement without being threatened with physical harm. 
          Most readers here would severely chastise an atheist making a similar threat to a christian so we are happy to see you objecting to Tbro’s post even if the reasons you give are not those we would use. 
          We believe that the moral you just used to object to Tbro is innate into us and that no divine intervention is necessary for us humans to recognize faltering morality. But as far as this discussion is concerned, the result is the same and we are in agreement. 
          Maybe Tbro will read your post and learn a valuable lesson today.
          Thank you.

      • Sindigo

        Actually, these kids may well be doing something wrong according to your constitution. That’s kind of the point here.

      • Taggerdev

        Unfortunately, many people do not know how to express their point without being overly passionate. The idea that they should look the other way is fine if this were a private school, a christian school, a church event, a CYO league, etc. However, this is a state funded public school and thus religious preaching has no place here. If the cheerleaders were holding verse from the Quran would you be as accepting? It is about empathy. I am positive that they had no ill-intent and most likely were finding the most motivational verses they could to inspire their team. However, under the circumstances, even without malice these action are exclusionary. Your religion is your business and your right. However, state sponsorship of that religion is neither. 

      • Findog53

         I agree, but don’t take to chopping off noses or heads to make a point. This is clearly not school sponsored. It is there freedom to exspress there religion. The school had nothing to do with it. The cheerleaders did this voluntarily. How’s my grammer here Grizzbomb?

        • Findog53

          Sorry Grizzy, I think I only got 95 on the last post.

        • byte_me

          While the cheerleaders are in their uniform they represent the school. And if they are in a uniform holding a sign, that sign should be a representation of the school as well.

          • Findog53

            You will find out different when it goes to court. Some real weighty issues here. How’s the grammar Grizz?

            • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

              Wanna put some money on that?  This could take a while, but how about when finally resolved we each give $50 to a charity the winner picks.

            • JohnnieCanuck

              differently. It’s an adverb.

        • Glasofruix

             It is there freedom to exspress there religion.

          Are you from the same school mister Finley?

          • Findog53

            I’m shocked at the relaxed response Glasofruix. To answer your ? no

        • Baal

           troll – grammar

          To the substance of your comment – it’s the schools field (aka public property), it’s in front of everyone at the initiation of the school event, I suspect the materials are school supplied.  It’s also organized and not that say two cheerleaders made a banner to put behind their chairs. 

        • amycas

           It is school sponsored. They got the materials to make these signs from the school. They are wearing cheerleader uniforms which are provided in part by the school. If it were not endorsed by the school, then it would not be allowed on the field.

      • Grizzz

        [your] right. I am not even. I am odd.

        But, I am also smarter. So, it seems if anything does not [belong's], it is you. [Your] an idiot.

      • Tommy

        Very Christian of you. Thanks for keeping the stereotype alive.

      • Wildbill8190

        Your Jesus would be disappointed in you.  He said to “Love They Neighbor” and “Pray in Private”.  If you read the bible you’d know that. LOL

      • ganner

        I love an internet tough guy. 

      • http://profiles.google.com/conticreative Marco Conti

        I’d love to see your reaction if at the next game I come with a banner asking Allah the merciful to bless your opponents that day. Why do I have a feeling I’d be run out of town before the game even starts?

        You may all be white bread christians right now, but at some point in the future you will have kids that subscribe to different religions or no religions. Will you be OK with some future cheerleading squad quoting from the Quran? 
        No? 

        • Drew M.

          It’s Texas. You’d be shot by the CCW permit holders in the crowd.

      • TalkingSnake

        Tbagger – please boomark this site.  I want  you come back here and make comments when you lose in court.  This is settled law – there is no wiggle room.  You and your fundie brothers and sisters WILL lose in court.  Furthermore, it will needlessly cost your school district a good deal of money defending themselves on a case that they have no prayer of winning (pun intended).  And forgive me for saying so, but it doesn’t appear that your school budget (especially the English curriculum of which it appears the graduates of your school system could use some remedial work) can afford it.

        You will have to show your public piety by by putting bible verses on your kids’ eyeblack, or writing it on a paper plate and gluing it to a popsicle stick (I heard god likes that).  Enjoy your last week or so of running through your jesus-banners, because I 100% guarantee you that that practice is going to end shortly.

      • B_R_Deadite99

         Hey dickhead, what they’re doing is against the law, so feel free to try and chop off the noses of superior citizens if you dare. Assault with a deadly weapon is a pretty serious crime.

    • Mandaj79

      The scriptures are for the “football game” moron. They are for the boys who play it!!!

      • http://www.facebook.com/mike.wolfsmith Mike Wolfsmith

        que?

      • amycas

         And what if the boys on the football team aren’t christian? What if they are christian and they are too afraid to say anything because of issues like this?

    • Mandaj79

      excuse me, they AREN’T for the football game!!!!!!!!

      • amycas

         They are at the football game. Displayed in front of the crowd. And correct me if I’m wrong, but the players all playing for a public school. The football team is part of the school.

  • http://exconvert.blogspot.com/ Kacy

    I posted a link to the local news story on my blog.  This goes beyond signs.  The cheerleaders formed their ideas for Christian banners at cheer-camp because the football coach gives his players motivational Christian devotionals before the game!!!!

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Christopher-Buchholz/1203282337 Christopher Buchholz

      WOW, so it’s even worse than people suspect, it’s not just the students, but the teachers trying to push their version of their religion on the kids. Holy crap.

      • http://exconvert.blogspot.com/ Kacy

        Yes, the cheerleaders justified their signs based on the coaches preaching to the players before the game.  They took their inspiration for the signs from the coaches’ actions.  

        • Grizzz

          Yes, and those good little Christian Cheerleaders are going to be in the back seat of the Chevy after the game engaging in a sinful game of “intercepting the quarterbacks” ball….if you know what I mean….

          Yes, they hold the christian user manual saying up on the field, but they do not practice what the user manual says….no pre-marital half-back humpin’!!!!

  • Cindy

    At our Texas high school, our cheerleaders come up with clever sayings. My favorite was when we played a team called the Wildcats, the sign said “Here, Kitty, Kitty, Kitty”.

  • Live from Hee Haw Hell

    Mr. Mehta, you may want to check out their page again.  They’ve posted a link to your blog and soliciting prayer for you.  They think we are “so clueless and lost” over here.  (Shocking . . . I know . . . )

    • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

      I wonder if we could convince them to pray for something more substantial.

      For example,  I have monocular vision.  I can only use one eye at a time, so I miss out on all those cool 3D movies (and of course that cool 3D real life).

      I’d really appreciate it if people could pray for my eyes to work together again so I can see 3D.

      Thanks in advance!

      (or you could pray for amputees to grow their arms and legs back.  That might be more useful)

      • Grizzz

        I wanna have powers like Wolverine. I wonder if they could outsource a prayer for me on that.

      • nakedanthropologist

        As a fellow monoculist, I must commend you for your request sir.  Hi ho cheerleaders!  I want to see Dredd in 3D!

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_6OE7LEYELE4MZTVXGZUSVTBFUI julie

         Nope, they’d rather pray for things if they can do it condescendingly. They’ll pray for you to agree with them, not for anything that actually benefits you.

        …and if they see this post, they’ll actually pray that you get better because they’ll feel good about proving me wrong.

  • ProudSponsorOfKHS.

    Tha lord Jesus Christ is good so quit hatin on our school cuz its tha best thing thats happened to our community & brought us so close together.(:

    • Sean McCann

      goldang golly gee yee haw. Y’all has convinced me! 

    • http://www.shadesthatmatter.blogspot.com asmallcontempt

      “We can do illegal things because it gives us the warm fuzzies. All u ppl are tryina take are warm fuzzies away…HOW DERE U.”

    • Willy Occam

      I have to admit, it’s getting really difficult to tell the Poes from the legit Jesus freaks among the commentators here.  For all the poor grammar, spelling, punctuation, and clarity of thought in the comments by Kimberly Bryan and Tbrothers883, I’m going to have to call Poe in ProudSponsorOfKHS.  If s/he’s not a Poe, I don’t know why these folks are so opposed to the concept of evolution, because seriously, monkeys could construct sentences and type better than this.

      • Jen

        Slightly OT, but could you please explain what “the Poes” is referencing? 

    • nakedanthropologist

      Your ignorance and bigotry are as rancorous as your grammar and lexicon.  What’s more, it is truly a sad thing that your community could not come together due to a shared love of football, human fellowship, and desire for fun. 

    • Glasofruix

      Sadly it didn’t improve your writing skills…

    • amycas

       It didn’t bring everyone together. Somebody was left out, or nobody would have sent a complaint to the ffrf. Did you not know that some people may not be of the same religious persuasion, and that reminding them of this fact at every opportunity is actually very divisive?

  • http://www.facebook.com/kimberly.bryan.50 Kimberly Bryan

    Let me say this IF you have a problem with it  dont read it or Dont come to the game CHRIST our lord in heaven is our belief and We will praise him when and where we want FREEDOM of speach get over it .. you none believers but i will do as i wish and there isnt any amount of money that will stop me and OUR kiddo’s have that right…Whats it to you we didnt make you come to our games or to read what we had to say you took it upon yourself to complain…You dont live here so how do you have any rights to say anything down grading to our kids…THEIR OURS….

    • Tainda

      Pray for spell check.  Just sayin…

      • Willy Occam

        “You dont live here…”

        Well, I do live in America, and according to Google, Kountze TX is (sadly) part of the United States; so yes, I do have a right to complain about this incident.  As for Freedom of Speech, you as a private citizen (and all the other yokels in your backwater little town) have every right to fill the stands with throngs of Jesus freaks waiving Bible verses.  But according to the US Constitution (which I believe still encompasses Texas), my tax dollars should not have to support PUBLIC sponsorship of your beliefs.  No Freedom of Speech violation there, sister.

        And seriously… you’re not going to make a very compelling case about the educational level of your community with that elementary school-level screed of yours.  Don’t they teach you folks how to use apostrophes down there?

        • Willy Occam

           (Oops… that was intended as a reply to Kimberly Bryan, not Tainda!)

        • Findog53

          Hate to break it to you Willy, unless someone from the shool is leading them it is free speech. They did it of their own free will and no endorsement of any kind form the school. It’s protected.

          • Findog53

            Ooops Grizzy only got 85 on the last test.

          • Willy Occam

            As official representatives of this PUBLIC school, the cheerleaders and football players are not allowed to publicly express their religious beliefs; this is that “separation of church and state” that is covered by the Constitution.  If those same students were attending the game as fans, they can wave religious banners till the cows come home, no problem. This is analogous to when Kathleen Sebelius recently made a political comment while in her official capacity as Secretary of Health and Human Services, and got into trouble.  She could make those exact same comments as a private citizen and would be fully protected by Freedom of Speech. 

            The Constitution is a subtle thing, Findog53; but I can see by your previous posts that subtlety is not your forte.

          • Grizzz

            “and no endorsement of any kind form the school”

            [form] the school? Really? [form]the school.

            Fuck me, those cheerleaders are also masons and architects, who knew?

          • nakedanthropologist

            I don’t hate to break it to you, Findog – because you are wrong.  The FRFF got involved here because a complaint was made by some person(s) in the community where this is taking place.  The cheerleaders took their cues from the football coach, who proselytizes to players and cheerleaders alike.  As another commenter has already pointed out, when in uniform the cheerleaders are representative of the public school they cheer for.  They can pray all they want & when they want – however, holding up gargantuan signs at games while acting as school representatives is against the law.  You know this – why do you feign such ignorance?

          • Grizzz

            Someone leading them from the [sic] school? Did you mean “shule” as in the Jewish equivalent of seminary? Because THAT would be a sight to see! Yessiree having someone from Shule leading a bunch of Christian Texas cheerleaders onto the football field (just having a Jew on the football field is an amusing enough thought) with New Testament parables hand painted (with poor kerning skills) all the way to a Christy-good victory! Down in Texas they’d be saying Yippy Oy Vei…

            Or did you mean SCHOOL and not [sic] school?

            Help me out you daffy little dumpy bald bastard, you Steve Findley of 123 Burbank, Cranston RI.

            • Grizzz

              8888DAMMIT – FREAKING AUTO CORRECT.

              Mr. Findley referred to being led from SHOOL [sic]….did you mean SHULE or SCHOOL? Because well, you can read (somewhat).

            • Findog53

              I think you are on this one cuz you like little boys n girls. You always talk about being a giver, but again you come off as a receiver oh sassy one.

          • Monado

            Using a school-sponsored event to promote religion is illegal. Period. 

    • matt

       It’s a public school and it’s ILLEGAL, moron.

      • Findog53

        They are doing this on their own. It’s protected.

        • Glasofruix

          Which part of public endorsement of religion you don’t understand Stevie?

          • Grizzz

            Don’t you just love this guy!!???!!! He is like a guy who took a weekend crash-course on the Constitution at the Adult Learning Annex.

            And the beautiful thing about ol’ Steve Lindley of 123 Burbank, is he just makes me feel so much better about myself because, hell, I am not him!

            I mean, have you seen this poor bastard!?! 

            And I bet ol’ Steve is the kind of guy who tries to kiss prostitutes!

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Christopher-Buchholz/1203282337 Christopher Buchholz

      Then bring your own sign to the game and pray all you want. No one is stopping you. But the school itself cannot proclaim one version of Christianity is the best. This is not the kids doing it on their own, it is a school function at this point.

      How would you feel if they put a prayer to the Virgin Mary on the sign and tried to convert everyone to Catholicism? Or “there no God but Allah, and Mohammed is his Prophet?” is that ok? It’s just a school teaching people to love God.

    • Jennifer English

      Really Kimberly?  Are you really ok with freedom of speech?   Suppose one of the cheerleaders wanted to make a sign reading “Indeed, Allah will aid those who aid His cause.  Indeed Allah is all-Powerful, all-Mighty.” (Quoran, ch22:v40).  
      If you are not ok with that, you need to kindly shut the fuck up about freedom of speech.

      • Katie Kiker

        If someone wants to hold up a sign for another religion, I say let them do it. What are we teaching this generation if we shut them up as soon as they decide to have an opinion? This nation is about freedom, freedoms that no other nation has. I am a Christian and I love and support the scriptures on the signs. However, I do not believe that an atheist or muslim student should be forced to hold up a sign that they do not believe in. I would be very upset if I was asked to hold up a muslim sign. In the same way, I believe that the student should have the ability to choose what stance they will take. It is obviously a sticky issue. Again, I am a Christian and would love for this to bring people into God’s Kingdom. However, I am not for making anyone feel less than because they don’t believe what I believe.

        • Willy Occam

          Oh yeah… and I’m sure a Muslim or atheist student in Kountze TX who refused to hold up one of those signs would be embraced with open arms by your loving, Christian community… the folks who threatened to “keep you [sic] nose where it belong’s [sic] cause [sic] you come here you may get it chopped off,” as Tbrothers2883 so eloquently put it in his post above.

          Oh, and by the way, “[sic]” does not mean that these words made me sick.  Look it up… it’s Latin (and no, that’s not the same as “Mexican”). 

          • Jen

            Bad grammar makes me [sic].

            • Grizzz

              :)

          • Katie

            I am truly sorry about what that person said. Please know that their opinions do not reflect that of every Christian. Just like not ever Muslim is out to set off a bomb, not every Christian is going to judge you based on your own faith, no matter how different from ours it may be. I hate that they felt like that kind of threat was okay under any circumstance. The truth is, it is absolutely not, and I apologize for them. As a Christian we believe that we will be known by our love. So, as for myself, I would openly love and embrace any student, Christian or not. I don’t know all of the details of these signs and who is being made to do what. But I can tell you this, if their is one student that does not feel comfortable holding up any of those signs, I would gladly stand to the side with them. I am a Christian and agree with the messages on these signs. However, I have never, and will never (under any circumstance) support ANYONE being made to feel less than because of their beliefs. So as I said before, please do not group every Christian in with those threatening to “chop off your nose.” That is vulgar, unacceptable, and does not in anyway reflect what our faith is about. And again, I sincerely apologize for their ignorance.

            • Grizzz

              Apology NOT accepted because (1) you do not get to speak for all of Christianity and (2) in several posts here you have already displayed your obvious bias to having christian propaganda displayed at public arenas.

              Sorry, but until you give up the ghost (pun intended) your apology has as much wind behind it as a popcorn fart.

            • Willy Occam

              Katie Kiker:

              You sound like a very decent person, and one who actually lives up to the standard that many of your fellow Christians only pay lip service to.  If there was an entire town of people like you, I believe it would be possible for a non-believer, or someone of another faith, to feel truly free to express his/her difference of opinion.  But we both know that’s not how the world is, and mob mentality can very easily overtake the common sense and decency of any single person. 

              Regardless of your reasonable comments, this still does not change the fact that the Constitution prohibits such religious displays as this *by* public institutions (as opposed to *at* public institutions, where those individuals not officially representing the institution may display all the religious banners they wish).

              Thank you again for your kind reply.

            • nakedanthropologist

              Here’s the thing though: as we’ve already witnessed (by either reading the comments here or going to the “support Christian priveledge” facebook page) any student in that school who is not okay because of this stunt probably won’t say jack squat.  You know why?  Because people will threaten him/her with violence for voicing any type of dissent.  That’s why keeping neutrality in these situations is so important – it protects everyone from “having their nose chopped off”.  Does Tbrother speak for all Christians?  Absolutely not – and most people here understand that. But as nice as you are, neither do you. 

               In that case, one has to calculate the risks of this situation for students.  1.) There may be some who are uncomfortable and feel ostracized, but they won’t say anything for fear of harassment and violence.  2)This type of public display indicates a great amount of priveledge where dissenting opinions are viewed as wrong by many of those within the “in” group and therefore the dissident is viewed as less, and even in some situations as fair game or “asking for it” by being the dissenter. 

              I’m glad that these cheerleaders are happy with being Christians – I really am.  But causes me alarm is the amount of vitriol being displayed by these same cheerleaders and their cohorts.  And this shouldn’t be a big issue – this display clearly violates the establishment clause.  But instead of saying “Oh, I didn’t realize that this could definitely be viewed as a separation of church and state issue and that my actions not only represent me/my faith while I’m in uniform but my school as well – a public school that’s supposed to be for everyone and not just Christians.”  But that’s not what they’re doing.  In light of their present actions, what these people (cheerleaders, cohorts, and so on) are saying is that their team is a Christian team – exclusionary.  If this were a private highschool that wouldn’t be an issue (legally speaking) but this is a public school and as such the issue needs to be addressed.

        • Glasofruix

            freedoms that no other nation has

          Im laughing SOOOOO hard right now.

          • Grizzz

            right!!!!! Without the aid of the University of Google or Wikipedia State, I think of Canada’s Charter of Rights and Freedoms…..with enough time I could come up with other foundation documents for other countries….

          • Findog53

            Why she’s wrong Shrek.

            • Glasofruix

              Oh great, now Steven Finley the douchiest troll is here…

              Please cite me the freedoms that are specific to the US of A and that no other country has, the only one i can think of is the right for the congenital idiots do bear arms.

              • Grizzz

                I love this daffy bastard! Seriously! I again maintain he is like the dullard at school who no one wants around, but can’t stand to leave behind. You hate yourself for laughing at him but you just can’t help it!

                Go Steve Findley, go. 123 Burbank in the heart of Rhode Island, that bastion of ethics and morality.

                • Glasofruix

                  It also seems that giving out his real name makes him disappear. I wonder if he’ll come back if it’s repeated three times.

                • Findog53

                  When have I disappeared? I have public sites I tend to, unlike you all who hide on this site. Bring these discussions public for all to see.
                   Beetle juice, Beetle juice, Beetle juice.
                    Can’t be on this wonderful site everyday.

    • Fritzy

      Wow, Kimberly, up till now, I seriously thought you WERE one of the highschoolers. Very telling.

      We care because what you are doing is unconstitutional. You should care too, because no one, including yourself, wants a government institution telling them how to worship. Seperation of church and state protects both the State AND the Church.

    • Richard Wigton

       Wow, you really don’t have a clue do ya Kimberly? Why don’t you respond to the question that several people here have posed–i.e. how would you feel if the cheerleaders were holding signs quoting the Koran?  Would you find that acceptable? Why or why not?
        The thing is that the cheerleaders are pushing their religious faith at a public High school football game. Their job is to just cheer the team on—not “win souls for Jesus.”
         In the end you will lose. You are violating seperation of church and State. So say bye-bye to your stupid signs.  But look on the bright side!  Once you lose you can pretend to be a martyr and whine how persecuted you are.  It’s a win-win for you.

    • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

      Do you remember learning about ‘sharing’ in kindergarten?  It’s not ‘your’ school.  It also belongs to people in your community who don’t want your religion displayed at their (and your) school.  The only way to share the school fairly with others is to leave religion out of it.  You don’t get to hold up banners with Bible verses, and they don’t get to hold up banners saying “There is no God”.

    • Grizzz

      Jesus Titty-Fucking Christ, do you idiots down Texas way tale basic English or grammar in school? If the answer is yes, then this is the biggest indictment of the American Public Education anyone could ever ask for.

      Texas, where “X” marks the signature.

    • amycas

       The game is for everyone. What if the cheer leaders wrote racist messages on the banners? Would you tell the black people “if you don’t like it, don’t come?” Public schools are paid for by everybody, so their public events should be open to everybody. Telling people to leave if they don’t like it just belies your true motives: to push non-Christians into second class citizenship.

    • http://itsmyworldcanthasnotyours.blogspot.com/ wmdkitty

      The very same Christ who, according to YOUR OWN HOLY BOOK, said:

      “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full.” (Matt 6:5)

      • Willy Occam

         Why do Christians always conveniently overlook this passage of the Bible?

  • Serb

    According to the second photo, at 4:13, I would guess PM, Phil said that he can do anything with the help of his buddy Chris+. Chirs+ must be a d.j.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001691931124 Trey Binagia

    who ever wrote this arguement forgot the first books congress printed for schools to use was the bible. quit trying to rewright the constution freedom of religion ment the state could not force you to be baptist catholic or any other christian church remember the church of england. stop spreading you liberal lies

    • Tainda

      WOW!

    • Ibis3

       I guess the news hasn’t reached you that David Barton’s lies have been acknowledged by his Christian former supporters. You might want to catch up. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHhYfkDZjp0

    • michael both

      Sir, your well-reasoned and beautifully-worded argument has had the necessary effect – my mind is changed, I regret all my previous non-belief, and wish to become a follower of your religion. Now, as I ready my hammer and chisel, pray tell exactly which part of my brain needs to be removed to start my conversion?

      • Drakk

         All of it.

    • TiltedHorizon

      “who ever wrote this argument forgot the first books congress printed for schools to use was the bible.”

      Can’t forget something that never happened. You need to stop parroting David Barton and Glenn Beck, you need to actually look at the Journals of the Continental Congress to know the truth.

      The bible in question, also called the Aitken’s Bible, was not printed or commissioned by congress. It was an endorsed; approval allowing Aitken’s, the petitioner, the right to publish his edition to the inhabitants of the United States.

      Except from the Journals of the Continental Congress:

      “Whereupon, Resolved, That the United States in Congress assembled,
      highly approve the pious and laudable undertaking of Mr. Aitken, as
      subservient to the interest of religion as well as an instance of the
      progress of arts in this country, and being satisfied from the above
      report, of his care and accuracy in the execution of the work, they
      recommend this edition of the Bible to the inhabitants of the United
      States, and hereby authorise him to publish this recommendation in the
      manner he shall think proper.(9)”

      You can read it with your own eyes:

      http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/vc006472.jpg
      http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/vc006473.jpg

    • Richard Wigton

      Hi Trey, I guess you are a fan of that lying idiot David Barton who believes that the Founding Fathers were all Bible-thumping holy-rollers.  The only thing about that is that they weren’t.  Oh and Congress did NOT print Bibles for use in schools. That is another Barton lie. It sucks that reality has such a liberal bias huh?  Get a brain!

  • Katie Kiker

    Holding up a sign with scripture is not speaking against anyone. However, holding up a sign proclaiming that “there’s probably no God” is speaking against the Christian faith. We live in a nation where we have freedom of religion and are allowed to worship whoever we want, however we want. If a scripture on a sign is this community’s or this team’s way of worshipping and giving God the glory then let them do it. If a muslim or atheist wants to declare their belief, let them. We have the freedom as a nation to speak and worship freely. The line should be drawn when it begins to hurt people. From what I can see, none of these signs have been against any one person or religion, only supporting their own. Let them have their own voice, no matter what it may be.

    • Tainda

      Try being the kid sitting down or not bowing their head during a prayer.  Once you experience that, tell me how you feel about these signs.  Religion does not belong in school.

      • Katie

        I understand that you are upset by this. However, please don’t assume that I haven’t been made to feel alone or less than because of what I believe in. We have both experienced rejection because of our beliefs. I have never been the kid not bowing my head during a prayer, but I have been the student laughed at in front of my class because my college professor decided to read my scripture-based essay (that I was told would be kept private) in front of the entire class. We were told to write about something we were passionate about or felt strongly about. I, as a Christian, wrote about my faith. We were told that these writings would be kept between us and our professor. However, that was not the case. I know that a lot of Christians don’t understand how people from other religions (or no religion) feel in these circumstances feel, but I do. I don’t want anyone, of any faith (or none at all), to feel less than. I believe what I believe, but I am not the judge. All I am saying is that everyone should be able to express their beliefs without judgement.

        • Tainda

          And your professor was wrong to say it would be kept private and then mock you after.  I would stand up for YOU in that situation.

          • Katie

            I appreciate that. Please know that I am not trying to shove my beliefs down anyone’s throat. My desire is for a nation that calls itself free, to stop enslaving itself with its citizen’s harsh words toward each other. I am not a legal genius and don’t the proper protocol for a situation like this. I just hope that Christians like myself would not judge others and watch how they form their comments and opinions regarding these things, and that the rest of the nation would return the favor.

            • Tainda

              I agree to the extent that people should be able to believe or not believe as they wish.  I do think, on the other hand, that it should be kept private or in their respective worship centers.  It does not belong in government or in our schools in ANY way.

              I’m not a total anti-theist as many are on here, I’m an atheist.

              Thank you for stating your opinions/beliefs reasonably!

              • Katie

                And thank you for doing the same! We may not agree on our beliefs or how the should or should not be declared. But, I hate that this nation says it’s free while we are constantly causing people different than ourselves to be made to feel enslaved by our opinions.

                • Stev84

                  It’s religion that does most of the enslaving and oppressing. It used to be with violence. Today it’s with threats of violence and mostly social ostracism (which is why no one dares to publicly speak out against such things in rural America. Their social life would be over). That you don’t see this just shows your wholly undeserved religious privilege.

                  Freedom of religion simply used to mean that you won’t get thrown in jail just for what you believe and won’t be forced to convert. It was never supposed to mean “the freedom to force everyone else to believe what I do” or “the freedom to force my beliefs into law” as American Christians think these days.

                  You are free to do whatever you want in your church. But contrary to popular belief, a public school is NOT a church.

    • MargueriteF

      I’m not sure I’m following your argument. Putting aside the fact that we’re talking about a public school for now, I still find your comments a bit confusing. You said:

      “If a muslim or atheist wants to declare their belief, let them…Let them have their own voice, no matter what it may be.”

      But elsewhere in your comment, you wrote:

      “The line should be drawn when it begins to hurt people. From what I can see, none of these signs have been against any one person or religion, only supporting their own.”

      And: “However, holding up a sign proclaiming that ‘there’s probably no God’ is speaking against the Christian faith.”

      So in your viewpoint, do atheists have the right to express their beliefs (or rather their unbelief) or not? Are we prohibited from expressing our opinion because it might “hurt people”? Are only the religious allowed to express opinions?

      Also, I feel compelled to note that “there’s probably no God” is not “speaking against the Christian faith,” but against faith in general. Christianity is far from the only faith to believe in a god.

      • Katie

        I see where on paper I may have contradicted myself and I do apologize for the confusion. I only meant that whether their opinions and beliefs be based in Christianity, Muslim, Hindu, or even Atheism, they should be able to express those beliefs without the fear that they will be ripped apart by blog after blog. I apologize for making it seem as though the “there’s probably no God” objection only applied to Christians. It definitely applies to any religion that believes in any god-like power. To answer your questions, Atheists absolutely have the right to express their beliefs, or lack thereof. In regards to opinions “hurting people” I merely meant that it is one thing for people to encourage their own faith, and an entirely different thing for someone to tear down another faith. I would be just as against a Christian tearing down someone of any other faith (or no faith) as I would some one declaring that “there’s probably no God.” My stance is that we have freedom of religion and freedom of speech in this nation. I just hope and pray that people aren’t reckless and inappropriate with these freedoms. No one should be denied a voice. However, it is up to that person to take into account what their voice may do to someone else.

        • Jen

          Katie, the problem is expression of opinions & beliefs is only protected as private speech.  The school’s permission of holding up the religious banners is not private speech, it is public speech and as such violates the establishment clause.

          Spectators of the game may hold up whatever signs they want.   That is private speech, and protected by the first amendment.  So – spectators at the game holding up signs expressing Christian beliefs = OK

          Cheerleaders holding up signs expressing Christian beliefs on the field as part of the sanctioned opening ceremonies = NO

        • Baal

           As an atheist (no caps, it’s not a proper name), I agree with your statement, “the fear that they will be ripped apart by blog after blog”  Some of the comments here have gone a little over.  Please note the christians are doing it too (i’m not commenting on equivalencies). 

          However, so far as the Constitution goes, this is not a hard case.  You have a free speech right to say what you think (and even personally pray at games).  The establishment clause (also first amendment) makes it clear that the school is permitting sectarian religion at a school event.  It’s a legal slam dunk that the signs have to stop.

          Given that atheists are unable to participate in society without endless christian messages being in our faces and that the law is really clear here, many of the posters are in high emotion.  The fact that the christians are obviously feeling entitled to own “our game” doesn’t help much.  It’s not your game, its the schools and students games.  Even if everyone was 100% your sect, it would still be illegal.

        • http://twitter.com/InMyUnbelief TCC

          I forcefully object to the notion that religious beliefs should be exempted from criticism or ridicule. To suggest so is to attack the First Amendment itself.

    • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

      Holding up a sign with scripture is not speaking against anyone. However, holding up a sign proclaiming that “there’s probably no God” is speaking against the Christian faith.

      Holding up a sign with a scripture is proclaiming a specific position (Christian).  Holding up a banner saying “There is probably no God” is proclaiming a specific position (agnosticism).

      [Regulars, please let's not get into the terminology debate, we have guests, I'm keeping that one simple]

      The only conceivable alternative to just leaving religion out of it would be to have banners to everything.  “There is no God”  “God is Evil”  “Allah Akbar” “Blessed Be” and on and on.  Chaos.

      The best way to accommodate everyone is to not promote any single religious stand.

    • Pluto Animus

      “Holding up a sign with scripture is not speaking against anyone.
      However, holding up a sign proclaiming that “there’s probably no God” is
      speaking against the Christian faith.”

      Pitiful. If the scripture proclaimed that god existed (i.e., that there definitely IS a god), then wouldn’t that speak against atheism?

      Or is your intellect too small to carry your “reasoning” to its logical conclusion?

      Oh, that’s right — you believers are allergic to logic.

      My bad.

    • Fritzy

      Nonsense.  Your comment bears out a poor understanding of the Constitution.  The Constitution does not protect people’s feelings–whether the sign says “God” or “no god” is irrelevant.  The Constitution does, however, prohibit establishment of state-sponsored religion.  Cheerleaders, acting as representatives of a school, are using a state-sponsored arena to endorse a religion.  This will not hold up in court.

  • Vukota

    Sad that the Catholic school I went to in New York is far more progressive and secular than the public schools in the South. It’s stories like this that remind that however much it sometimes sucks to be an atheist in the liberal Northeast, it can be far worse in other parts of the country. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/ashhuhleeB Ashlee Brooke Smith

    i’ll pray for you non believers..even though  it wont save you from hell.

    • Stev84

       Threats of eternal torture. Typical Christian scum

    • TiltedHorizon

      Ashlee Brooke Smith Sez:

      “i’ll pray for you non believers..even though  it wont save you from hell.”

      That’s cause prayer does nothing and nothing cannot stop something from happening.

    • Vukota

      So you’ll pray for us even though it won’t make any difference?  So in other words, it’s just like any other prayer. 

    • MargueriteF

      Since I believe neither in hell nor in the efficacy of prayer, I really don’t care if you pray for me or not. But since YOU don’t appear to believe in the power of prayer either, I’m not sure why you’d want to waste your time that way:-).

    • Drakk

      Well go on then. Show us those magic thinking powers.

      • Glasofruix

        I’m not sure she’s familiar with the concept of thinking.

    • Grizzz

      If you believe everything is pre-ordained and that “god” knows all and has a plan for everything; and if you believe that you are just a little human and cannot tell god what to do, then what the fuck good is prayer?

    • Grizzz

      And Ashlee’s little quip here is the christianese equivalent of “I am better than you, so go fuck yourself”.

      The important thing here Ashlee is that you have found a way to feel superior…..

    • http://friendlyatheist.com Richard Wade

      Ashlee, instead of praying for my soul, would you donate five dollars to the local food bank, or the homeless shelter, or to the public library? That would mean so much more to me. When I’m burning and writhing in eternal, hideous pain inflicted by your all-loving god, I’ll know that because of my request to you, and because of your gracious acceptance, at least someone on Earth is less hungry, or less cold, or less ignorant.

      Thanks again.

      • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

        Oh man I love this!

        I’ll even double down.  Any Christian on here who promises to donate to a secular charity of their choice- I’ll match said donation (I’d better limit the total to $100).

        You can even still pray for me.

        (Edit: to clarify, that’s $100 out of my pocket)

    • Drew M.

      You can almost hear the cackle of glee in your statement. You really get off on the thought of people spending eternity being tortured, don’t you.

      Sicko.

  • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/ Kevin_Of_Bangor

    From their page: Stacy Lee I’m banning them from this page if they do not support the group. This is a support group and if they choose to believe differently, they do not need to be a member of the group. Please send me names of anyone causing grief for our kids or any non supporters on this page. Thanks!

    • Vukota

      Typical Christian tactic. Christians on Youtube usually have their comments and ratings disabled. On the other hand, I don’t think I’ve ever seen an atheist use that tactic. It’s very telling that one side is willing to debate while the other side just wants to stick their fingers in their ears.

      • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/ Kevin_Of_Bangor

        They are scared to read the truth.

        • Glasofruix

           They can read?

          • JohnnieCanuck

            Oh yes, they can read, just not much better than they can spell.

      • Guest.

         PZ bans for content Vukota and A+ does as well on their site.  Both do a great job with trolls (which is good) but they also will target mere dissent.

        • Grizzz

          And Adam Lee censors at the drop of anything he feels is not according to his master plan over at Daylight Atheism.

  • Gctrainer73

    Is it really Christians pushing beliefs on you, or you pushing your non beliefs in us? With if every single student on that team are Christian, would that mean they are pushing their beliefs on believers? Think about it, but then again, of you don’t believe in anything why would it matter to you? It does because you seek attention by any means possible, this is your platform. Yours is the use of a social media site there’s is the same. What makes you any better? Or at least your opinions. It doesn’t, but thank God we have the freedom To express ourselves

    • Stev84

      Atheists believe in plenty of things. Just not in unproven, supernatural bullshit and invisible men in the sky. Belief is not the same thing as faith. Our opinions are better because they tend to the based on evidence and not ancient books and made up myths.

      Also, not promoting theism is not the same as promoting atheism. Not plastering Jesus and gawd over every free surface 24/7 is simply neutrality. It means not taking a position either way.

    • IndyFitz

       No, Gctrainer73 — don’t thank God for the freedom to express yourself.  God didn’t give you that freedom.  If you’re American, then the Constitution did.  And that’s the point you’re missing.  It doesn’t matter if every single person at that school is Christian, if everyone in the town is Christian, if everyone in the entire state is Christian.  It’s endorsement of religion by the school, and by extension the government, and that’s what violates the Constitution.  For the life of me, I cannot imagine why that’s so difficult for people to get.  If the school promoted public endorsement of atheism, THAT would be a violation of the Constitution.  Or an endorsement of Hinduism, or Islam, or worshiping the Greek gods.  Any endorsement of any kind of religion, or endorsement of opposing religion, just cannot be allowed to happen.  That’s why cases like this get lost by religious people in court all the time.  I know Christians eschew logic and reason and intelligence and basic common sense just so they can believe their own version of reality, and shove their religion down everyone’s throat, but at some point you’d think even those people have to figure out why they keep losing the SAME FREAKING BATTLES.  Just stop using public entities like schools to promote religion.  It’s THAT EASY.  This isn’t rocket science.

    • Anonymous Atheist

      Please take a look at this: ‘We’re Not On Opposite Sides Of The Spectrum’
      http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2012/08/22/were-not-on-opposite-sides-of-the-spectrum/

  • Jon Peterson

    “I’m terrified that if I don’t show you how much I believe in the existence of God, he won’t actually exist.”

    Actually, that’s good. I’ma put that on a picket sign and anti-protest with it.

    • Baal

       “I’m terrified” <— full stop.
       Decisions based on fear (even rational fears) tend to go for for really bad solutions.  Try considering the circumstances and figuring out what causes all the relevant interests to walk away happy or at least not injured.

      • Jon Peterson

        Why then, do they fight so hard against us telling them to stop shoving their shit in our faces? With all the vitriolic speech they direct at atheists, I simply am NOT buying the “we just want to share God’s love” line.

        And if the signs are directed at themselves, what is the point? “Hey, I know you believe, but I have to make really overt gestures to prove that I also believe, because if I’m not allowed to make these overt gestures HOW ELSE WILL YOU KNOW?!”

        Really, it comes down to fear of not being able to prove how Christian they are. It is fear, and the irrational decision that comes of it is choosing to fight the losing battle in the courtroom.

  • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/ Kevin_Of_Bangor

    It keeps gettting better: Mary Hebert Well, I say THANK YOU to this man for helping us spread God’s word. Think about it … How many people who have maybe never opened the Bible have now seen this scripture because of this man’s blog. Isaiah 55:11 says, “So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; It shall not return to Me void, But it shall accomplish what I please, And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it.”

    I would say everyone that has posted so far has done a lot more than just opened the bible.

    • Helanna

      At work I occasionally get little pamphlets about how Jesus is savior and blah blah blah. I’ve always thought they were particularly stupid because who in the US has never freaking heard of Jesus? The non-Christians in this country are not that way because they simply don’t know what Christianity is.

      At least, that’s what I though. Maybe Christians think differently then. Or maybe they’re just trying to make themselves feel better about finding out that there are some people who disagree with them, who knows. 

    • Glasofruix

      They really believe that some idiotic blabbering from a book of magic about papa smurf would somehow inspire an atheist to believe?

      • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

        It’s amazing how often I get Christians who are actually surprised (and compliment me) for knowing anything of the bible.  And then there are the ones who assume I only know the passages from evilbible.org

        Heck, half the time I just look up their scripture and read back or ahead a few pages.

        I have read the whole thing, but it was decades ago.(my Noah/Moses brain fart not withstanding :-)

        • Glasofruix

          Awww, i’d really like all this stuff in a epub format to put it on my reader, but i don’t want to weight it down with a whole bible….

          • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

            Weigh it down?  I have the bible (NIV), the book of Mormon, the Qu’ran, and a bunch  of others.  All public domain.  And I’m probably using < 10% of its space at this point.  Actually I think I paid $0.99 for the BoM since it was a better indexed format.

            I'd probably pay for something easily searchable, but since I have an original kindle, search is a pain anyways so I don't bother.

            • Glasofruix

              I was implying that the bible is a waste of space ;)

  • Grizzz

    Texas. Of course. Texas.

    Give it back to Mexico, seal the borders, and then let the Mexicans turn the Texans into their field workers and housekeepers. 

    • A3Kr0n

       What about AronRan, and Edward Tarte? They’re from Texas.

      • Anonymous Atheist

        And ‘The Atheist Experience’ and ‘Godless Bitches’.

        • http://itsmyworldcanthasnotyours.blogspot.com/ wmdkitty

          Okay, we go in, we get the non-Christians out, and THEN we seal it off.

          Can we also mark Texas as a Biohazard?

      • cipher

        We’ll airlift them out, along with the other humanists, secularists and liberals in Texas.

        Should take about an hour.

    • http://twitter.com/Outcast_Kyle Edgar

       We don’t want them. We already have our good share of religious nuts. You can send them to mars or somewhere else.

      • Grizzz

        Where in ol’ Mex do you live Edgar? Some very beautiful places down Mexico way. I have always enjoyed the Oaxaca region!

        • http://twitter.com/Outcast_Kyle Edgar

           I live in Mexico City, not exactly the nicest part of the country, but it’s ok.

          • Grizzz

            I would guess it is pretty hard being an atheist in Mexico? Los Catholicas everywhere you look!

            • http://twitter.com/Outcast_Kyle Edgar

               It’s easy when you live in the city. Actually we’re preparing for the secon atheist colloquium. But if you live in a small town you’re pretty much screwed, most people are still attached to their religion to the point of attacking other christian groups. Actually these cheerleaders are pretty tame. Last month we got on Michoacan a sect that destroyed some schools because they think it’s wrong to teach their kids about reproduction and evolution.

    • http://friendlyatheist.com Richard Wade

      Texas would want to keep their nukes. (shudder)

    • cipher

       Oh, HUGE, HUGE Like!

  • Smittyfisher

    Its a shame that more and more rights,are being taken away,this country was built on Christian values,and the right of freedom of speech,thats why you’re able to post whatever you feel.And someone else’s rights should be respected as well as yours.

    • Jen

      *sigh*  Do we really need to bring out the Declaration of Independence, Constitution, the Treaty of Tripoli and Jefferson’s 1802 letter to the Danbury Baptists again?

      [this country was built on Christian values]  No.  It was not.  Besides, this issue was already decided in Santa Fe Independent School District v. Doe 530 US 290 (2000).    I can’t see how students holding up a sign is any different from the student led prayer argued in that case.

    • IndyFitz

       Smittyfisher, if you TRULY cared about respecting others’ rights, then you’d realize why schools promoting religion by allowing students at an official function to hold up Bible verses is wrong. It’s disrespectful of every non-Christian to have tax dollars supporting a public institution.  Like many here have said, spectators are welcome to hold up all the signs they want.  Students not playing in the game, cheering for the game, or acting under the control of the school can hold them up.  But the cheerleaders are participating in a school function, and a school function can NEVER have kids holding up Bible verses — no matter how many people there are Christian.  If you TRULY believe others’ beliefs must be respected, then a little bit of critical thinking on your part will lead you to understand why this must stop.  But aside from being disrespectful of others’ beliefs, the school allowing these signs is also disrespecting the Constitution and the importance of freedom of religion.  And just plain breaking the law (as has been decided in many, many courts.)

    • Frank

      Your rights aren’t being taken away. It’s just your privilege is being dismantled and other people are starting to gain the same rights that you’ve always had.

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/FDGYHBEWVNGUG763L5X4TON3JQ Nazani14

    Why aren’t the teams they play against complaining?  Basically, the signs all say “God likes us better than you, neener, neener.”

    • http://profiles.google.com/conticreative Marco Conti

      Exactly!

  • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/ Kevin_Of_Bangor

    In case you want to sound off: https://www.facebook.com/KBMT12

    At least there your comments won’t get removed.

  • CoboWowbo

    I’ve never understood how these people can possibly believe that an all-powerful (and presumably very busy) creator could give a rat’s ass about a specific high school football match.

    • B_R_Deadite99

       Because they’re retarded. Haven’t you noticed that yet?

  • Georgegauthierdc

    When they say “Thanks be to God which gives us victory” aren’t they acknowledging that their God fixes their games for them? Not very sportsmanlike. And unfair to the other team. 

  • Anonymous Atheist

    When this incident http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2012/09/14/principal-shuts-down-cosmetology-class-because-one-of-the-students-looked-gay/ happened in the same area last week, I thought it was nice to see what seemed like a lot of people - moving quickly the first few days, but currently not moving much beyond 1200 total – sign the petition supporting the side of reason (many people in the local area, and many in other states and countries). But now to hear that this small town in the same area got 7000-and-counting people to stand up in support of this unconstitutional religious junk in less than a day… sad. :(

    • IndyFitz

       A good point, but I suspect most of them are lemmings mobbing behind a
      losing cause in the name of silly fantasies and brainwashed
      upbringings.  I hope our supporters are worth more as regards critical
      thinking and supporting  cause based on logic, reason, common sense, and
      such.

    • IndyFitz

       A good point, but I suspect most of them are lemmings mobbing behind a
      losing cause in the name of silly fantasies and brainwashed
      upbringings.  I hope our supporters are worth more as regards critical
      thinking and supporting  cause based on logic, reason, common sense, and
      such.

  • Ashley Schurtz

    i think that it’s not just a christian event, its religion as a whole.  I believe that not only should christians raise up their banners, but so should the jews, the muslims, islamics, Buddhists, etc.  I think that since it’s a football game and we are trying to boost up the confidence of our football team, we should have the authority to post up a scripture on the banner from all religions in support of the team. Your portion of the blog that states an atheist should put up a banner saying“There’s probably no god. Now stop worrying and play the game.” is out of context.  No one should post up banners in offense to another religion.  Only in support of the event.

    • Willy Occam

       “I believe that not only should christians raise up their banners, but so should the jews, the muslims, islamics, Buddhists, etc.”

      Please give me a friggin’ break!  Yeah, that’ll really fly in redneck America….

    • IndyFitz

       So it’s NOT okay to offend another religion with atheist signs, but it’s TOTALLY OKAY to offend atheists with religious signs?

      Really, if you just use basic critical-thinking skills for a few
      minutes and think about that, you might see why it makes no sense.

    • IndyFitz

       So it’s NOT okay to offend another religion with atheist signs, but it’s TOTALLY OKAY to offend atheists with religious signs?

      Really, if you just use basic critical-thinking skills for a few
      minutes and think about that, you might see why it makes no sense.

    • MariahE

      I am a Christian and I would not be offended if atheist held up signs saying what they believe ,or well don’t believe in. That’s them and I can only hope and pray that God will touch their hearts. People are taking this way out of line. And in this article he is trying to say he would like to see these cheerleaders at Kountze hold up this kind of sign, so yes they would be uncomfortable because that’s not what they believe in. Same with atheist holding up a biblical sign, they would be uncomfortable as well. So all religions should be able to stand up for what they believe and what they think is right, but not argue about what they believe in, but preach. I hope everyone has a blessed day and that God will do something for you in your life. God Bless(:

  • Christinabottley

    I am a Christian and from Texas, my husband is originally from Kountze.  I would like to apologize for the horrible comments that were made, and ask you not to form your opinion completely on that comment.  I am praying right now that you will be blessed, and that somehow you can forgive the Christians who have missed the mark and come up short.  We are supposed to represent Jesus, and when we behave badly people get the wrong idea of who He is.  He came so that we could be saved, forgiven, healed, restored, and set free.  I pray that each one of you who don’t believe will somehow have an experience or encounter that will open your heart to receive what I have found.  God bless.

    • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

      Wiccans have a philosophy in that they don’t pray/spell for a specific outcome, but for “what’s best”.  That is, they don’t feel it is their right to try to change another person.  A spell that person X fall in love with person Y who already loves person X is a infringement on the rights of person X.

      I don’t really think your prayer will have any affect, but I appreciate your intent.  However I think your intent would be more respectful if you instead restrict your prayer to God providing us with evidence.  It’s subtle, but our hearts are our own.

      • Christinabottley

        I understand and appreciate your explanation of your belief.  I also apologize if I did come across as disrespectful in my delivery.  However, I cannot change or restrict my prayer for you.  Let me be clear- I am nobody, I do not pray for you because I am better, smarter, or out of pride.  I pray because I absolutely want everyone to have what I have found.  I won’t bore you with my testimony- but me being alive is evidence to the love and power of who I serve. I know that a personal relationship with God is best for everyone- free of religion and rituals and judgement that man has brought to the table. I may not be making any sense- but I pray out of love and hope for those I pray for…no agenda, thats it.  Thanks again Mr. Wilson.

        • Drew M.

          Christina, I used to be an incredibly devout Christian. I will spare you the details, but since losing my faith, my heart has truly opened up. I learned how to love unconditionally and enjoy life far more than I had thought possible.

          I appreciate the sentiment, but trust me, I would be moving backwards. I know this is an incredibly difficult concept (because I was there myself), but not everyone needs faith in order to be happy. We have no holes that need feeling,

          • Christinabottley

            I’m wouldn’t mind hearing the details, but if you prefer to not go into it, I understand.  Our life experiences give us our perspective of God, and I am in no way trying to judge or dictate your choices.  I would like to understand what happened to change your beliefs if you feel like sharing:) 

            • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

              You might like 
              http://www.amazon.com/The-Bad-People-Stole-ebook/dp/B007VEC63W (99 cents Kindle) the story of a devout Christian who painfully lost his faith, and no, no Hank involved)

              People who have lived on both sides of the fence fascinate me, because I’ve never had faith of that kind.  I tried really hard (and trust me, I know ALL the advice) but I could never make that leap.

              I think for anyone who has only ever been one (faith or not) it’s nearly impossible to understand how anything could be truer.  And I don’t mean the apatheists.  There are people who never really worry about religion.  They don’t feel filled with the Glory of God, but then they’re not really filled with the Glory of Skepticism either.

              But for those of us who have drunk deeply from one well, we shake our heads baffled at the poor people who just don’t get it.

              • Christinabottley

                Yes sir.  To logically explain Christianity is pointless because it doesn’t make sense.  The whole idea of a God big enough to create us and love us and send a sacrifice to make right the wrong all of us have done is a crazy story that intelect will always cause you to discredit.  That’s what’s amazing about the transformation that happened to me when life was too much and I tried everything possible to get it right as a last resort I said I will try God.  I did it wholeheartedly because if it didn’t work I wanted to be able to argue ” i did all of this and God didn’t come through, it wasn’t any fault of mine!”  However, it worked and to be here instead of where God brought me from is so amazing I want everyone to experience it.  I don’t care how many people call me names or make fun of me because they aren’t mean or bad people- they just haven’t had that experience.  I have no right to get offended-nor does any other Christian.  Honestly, Christians are ususally who upset me because the message they bring is not Christ’s at all.  Thank you Mr. Wilson for your time and I will check out the book.  I will also continue to pray for you and that you have “the experience”.  Take care:) 

        • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

          Well, then, I hope you have the opportunity some day to kiss Hank’s ass

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oymv19jyeY8 

          • Christinabottley

            …and I hope that today you are blessed coming and going.  That any worry or frustration that you might experience is worked out.  I pray for your finances to be blessed, and that you not only have enough to get by, but  that you have all the desires of you heart. Finally, I pray that the peace that passes all understanding rests upon you, Rich Wilson. Amen.

    • Glasofruix

      I pray that each one of you who don’t believe will somehow have an
      experience or encounter that will open your heart to receive what I have
      found.

      Fuck no. It sounds like a threat to me, because if something is traumatic enough to make me believe in your nonsense would be incidentaly unpleasant and probably make me totally bonkers.

      • Christinabottley

        I was praying for a positive experience.  I pray only blessing and protection for you and your family.  I apologize if it came across as threatening.  That was not my intention.

        • Glasofruix

          I’d like to know what kind of positive experience would make me stupid enough to buy into papa smurf.

          • Christinabottley

            Thank you Lord for beginning to set up the conditions for an encouter with You that will change Glasofruix’s heart and mind about You.  Lord, your Word says the goodness of God leads a man to You, so I pray for that to start manifesting in Glasofruix’s life right now.   In Jesus name, Amen.

    • Jennifer English

      I appreciate your intention of what you perceive as kindness, but I find it personally insulting to insinuate that only christians can find peace of mind or appreciate the goodness of life. 

      • Christinabottley

        I understand that when you don’t believe that what I am saying could come across as insulting.  That is not my intention. I was just personally offended by the hateful, ignorant, disrespectful posts that a people who called themselves “Christians” posted on this web page.  I wanted to apologize.  Im not great at getting what I feel or think across through typing so my lack of communication skills has still offended some.  This is certainly not what I intend.  Blessing to you and your family, Jennifer.

    • http://itsmyworldcanthasnotyours.blogspot.com/ wmdkitty

      You walk your Path.

      Please let us walk ours in peace.

      Whether we find meaning and fulfillment in Christianity, Buddhism, Atheism, Wicca, Voodoo, or some eclectic mix of whatever works, it’s OUR journey to take.

      • Christinabottley

        Yes it is, blessings and peace be with you:)

  • Luke Runte

    I’m from that area, and here’s my local news station’s reaction to it. Warning, you’ll sigh a lot. 
    http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151152899498756&set=a.84598483755.79668.79318758755&type=1&comment_id=8167820&notif_t=photo_reply 

  • Luke Runte

    I’m from that area, and here’s my local news station’s reaction to it. Warning, you’ll sigh a lot. 
    http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151152899498756&set=a.84598483755.79668.79318758755&type=1&comment_id=8167820&notif_t=photo_reply 

  • Imerson

    Ah, Kountze – I sure don’t miss that area and am glad I moved. Another little interesting tidbit about a place only about 20 minutes away from Kountze (Beaumont, TX) – http://theexaminer.com/stories/news/sexuality-deciding-factor-program’s-closure

  • Jamie 25hill

    They arent they are holding up a sign for two minutes . Forthe person that said do you really think God would care about a high school gam the answer is Yes he cates about everything even if it was a peewee game

    • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

      LOL!

      We don’t dispute that peewees are as important (or hopefully more)  to God (assuming existence) as well paid pros.  The part that baffles us is one team vs. another team!  So if your team wins, does that mean the other team didn’t love Jesus as much as you?  If a kid breaks a leg, is it because that kid didn’t love Jesus enough?  If a kid runs a kick back for a TD, does that mean God loves that kid more?

      Doesn’t it seem odd that God would show any kind of preference for anyone?

      • Tainda

        They are harping on my joke about jeebus not caring about a high school game but may care about college lol

    • Glasofruix

      Seriously, i’m starting to doubt that this school even has a real school program with all that jebus stuff going around when the ones supposed to represent it assassinate the english language in every word they type (i suppose you’re from there)…

    • SluttyMary

       Then let’s thank God for starving children, baby cancer and abusive parents.  It’ a miracle.  If you thank him for the trivial good, you must thank him for the severely bad. 

      Thank you God for dead babies! 

      The bottom line is it has no place in a school. 

    • Frank

      That’s a weird thing for an all knowing deity to care about when people all over the world are being massacred by oppressive governments. 

  • http://profiles.google.com/conticreative Marco Conti

    Invoking god at sporting events has always seemed silly to me and possibly sacrilegious to them.

    Is Jesus really going to take the side of their team against their opponents? Who are they playing against? The “Sodom Buttfuckers”?

    They are probably very proud of it too.

  • IndyFitz

     A good point, but I suspect most of them are lemmings mobbing behind a losing cause in the name of silly fantasies and brainwashed upbringings.  I hope our supporters are worth more as regards critical thinking and supporting  cause based on logic, reason, common sense, and such.

  • IndyFitz

     So it’s NOT okay to offend another religion with atheist signs, but it’s TOTALLY OKAY to offend atheists with religious signs?

    Really, if you just use basic critical-thinking skills for a few minutes and think about tht, you might see why it makes no sense.

    • Anonymous Atheist

      Classes like that would/should/could be a good thing to have nationwide. However:

      1. The class curriculum would need to not be corrupted by the Christianist theocrats’ rewriting of history/law or it would just reinforce the misunderstandings.

      2. It would come too late for all the adults already in power.

      • IndyFitz

        1. And it would be corrupted by those folks.

        2. And you’re right, although fiercely trying to teach critical-thinking skills to young people might succeed with enough of them to be worth it.
        But, alas, probably just wishful thinking.

    • Glasofruix

      A class about basic grammar would be a good start.

      • IndyFitz

        You know, I’d settle for bad grammar, horrible spelling, improper use of punctuation, weak vocabulary, and even texting abbreviations… in exchange for basic critical-thinking skills. (Although I’d push mightily for strong reading skills from Day One until graduation, because I think strong reading skills and reading comprehension leads to being better in many areas — including critical thinking AND good grammar, good spelling, etc.!)

  • Steve

    My comments are that if someone wanted to make a run through sign that says, “Atheist believe there is no God”, then the ACLU would not be down their backs about what the sign says, but I would be the first to file the lawsuit.  I worked in a public school and my principal allowed a man of Islam faith to take 30 minutes out of his workday to pray.  I asked if I could take 30 minutes off each day to pray to Jesus Christ and I was told that I could not.  Why is it always the Christians that have to be the ones who get the shaft.   

    • Anonymous Atheist

      The ACLU defends the rights of anyone and everyone, even the masses of ignorant jerks like you who constantly deride their great work. http://www.aclufightsforchristians.com/

    • Frank

      Maybe because the tenants of your religion don’t specifically require that you pray every day. You guys are the majority. You are in power. You are not “getting the shaft” simply because other people are being afforded the same privileges you’ve been allowed forever. 

  • Ryan Bauer

    Here’s the area rabble-rouser at work: 

    http://donnyferguson.blogspot.com/2012/09/stockman-warns-kountze-isd-to-stop.html?spref=fb

    A bloviating politician urges school district to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars fighting a lost cause when it could otherwise be used to help get these kids better educated than their parents (obviously, shouldn’t be too difficult). 
    Genius.

    • http://friendlyatheist.com Richard Wade

      Actually it is clever. Bloviating politicians and education are natural enemies. Hurting the local schools by encouraging them to waste money on futile lawsuits helps keep the locals poorly educated. Then the bloviating politicians can more easily fool them into voting for them.

    • Monado

      Remember, one of the planks of the Republican Party in Texas was to ban the teaching of critical thinking. 

  • ImRike

    I noticed that with very few exceptions, the grammar and spelling of most of the christians writing here is abominable. It would certainly help if they would concentrate on studying more in English classes than in religion.

  • Tonyatomplait

    I didn’t think it was illegal if it was student led. What does the law actually state?

    • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

      ‘the law’ is simply the 1st amendment- so it’s up to the court in question to decide if the action is a violation or not, and although we can look at past cases to get hints, you don’t really know until either SCTOS rules, or declines to hear whatever case it reaches.

      This freely downloadable book covers most School/Religion issues and lays out what is and is not legal. http://www.au.org/files/Religion%20in%20the%20Public%20Schools%20-%20entire%20text.pdf

      What does not pass muster is school staff coming up with something, and then (wink wink nudge nudge) getting students to ‘lead’ it.  I’m not sure this case is that blatant, but there are other things to be taken into consideration such as how much direction the cheer team has from staff, and how the event would appear to one in the audience.  It sure looks to me like the school is behind the whole thing.  And frankly public comments such as we see on here would not help the pro-bible case if it did end up in court.

      • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

        In particular, I would look to Santa Fe Independent School District v. Doe (as others in this thread have pointed out)

        From the above pdf, page 34

        The Supreme Court answered that question in 2000 in Santa Fe Independent School District v. Doe, concluding that even student-led, student initiated religious speech over a school’s public address system, is unconstitutional if it occurs in a context that creates the appearance of school sponsorship or support.

        The Cheer team holding up bible verses isn’t any more private than saying prayers over the school PA system.  The appearance is that of the school endorsing a particular religion.

        • MariahE

          The court says there is nothing wrong with what the high school is doing and i do believe that the law states that the government will not entangle themselves into religion and will not declare one religion for the nation. Hence freedom of religion and speech

          • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

            The court says there is nothing wrong with what the high school is doing

            This incident hasn’t gone to court, so no court has said anything about it.  If you’re referring to some other case, I’d love to know what it is.

            i do believe that the law states that the government will not entangle themselves into religion and will not declare one religion for the nation

            That’s a pretty rough phrasing, but sure.  The problem is, the school (a government entity) by presenting a single religion, is  entangling itself in religion.

            • MariahE

              Actually sir it has and the judge placed a Temporary Restraining Order on the school administration that they cannot prohibit them from making the signs. This just hasn’t been placed on the news yet and happened today

  • Luke Runte

    The Liberty Institute is apparently going to be “investigating” this: meaning they may throw their fundamentalist legal muscle behind this. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=625510941 Andrew Gillium

    I joined the Support Kountze Kids Faith FB page after reading this article. After 3 comments voicing my support of the 1st Amendment and secular public schools I was blocked. Censorship and denial are these peoples only defense, they can keep their FB page while I rejoice in the fact that the 1st Amendment will prevail.

  • Adk

    I often think more local school districts would be happier with how the schools were run if they didn’t accept federal money and, thus, didn’t answer to the rules of the federal government.  Who is being hurt by the quotes?  Why is it really any worse than a quote from any other famous inspirational book?  If there truly is no God, who cares and what difference does it make?  It looks like the quotes are about striving for victory.  If that’s their goal as a team, why does it matter if they use quotes from the Bible or any other positive book?  I can understand why local people paying local taxes to run the school would be upset if what they want is overruled by those outside their community.

    • Willy Occam

       Adk… you are either naive or disingenuous. 

      You and I both know that Christians consider the Bible to be much more than just another “inspirational book.”  In fact, I believe many of your people would be offended at the mere suggestion that your Holy Book isn’t THE most important book of all time.  So don’t feign modesty now when you’re trying to pull this “we just want to inspire our students with a positive message from this random book we happen to have here.” 

    • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

      I often think more local school districts would be happier with how the schools were run if they didn’t accept federal money and, thus, didn’t answer to the rules of the federal government.

      That’s called a ‘private’ school, and they do exist.  They do have to follow certain rules just like we all do, but they do have the freedom to include religion in their school.

      Why is it really any worse than a quote from any other famous inspirational book?

      If they were taking quotes from a variety of sources, it might be fine.  They’re not.  Whether or not God exists, they are exhibiting a single view of the ‘God’ question- God exists and Jesus is the savior.

      I can understand why local people paying local taxes to run the school would be upset if what they want is overruled by those outside their community.

      The complaint is from inside the community.  Not that it would change the constitutionality if it weren’t.

    • Gary

      It hurts the students with a different religion or no religion.  The message they get is that their school supports/endorses one particular religion.  That is potentially offensive to them and can make them unnecessarily feel like they are an outsider and don’t belong there.  That is the heart of the matter and the reason our government does not endorse one religion.  It would make a large group of people feel that their government does not represent them.

  • http://twitter.com/gman747 gary

    The most amazing thing about this entire deal, anytime this happens. It doesnt appear that 
    they ever consider (since everything happens for a reason), that this is what god wants. 

  • MariahE

    As a Christian, you are supposed to preach the word of God and what you believe in and if people don’t like it, then we pray for them. We do not push them into it because that is their soul and we can only do what we can for them. So what about the Muslims and Jews outside sporting events, concerts, and grocery stores handing out their flyers and pamphlets about their faith? I can say the same thing that they are pushing their faith everywhere they go, but i won’t because that’s is what they believe in and all I can do for them is pray for them. You don’t understand how we Christians believe in standing up for what we believe in even if we are standing alone, because if God is for us, who can stand against us. THIS IS WHAT WE BELIEVE IN! SAME TO ANY OTHER RELIGION THAT BELIEVES IN SOMETHING!

    • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

      You don’t see any difference between someone handing out religious material outside a grocery store, and religious material integrated into an exhibition at a public high school?  None?

    • MariahE

      Not really it’s all public to me. Every individual has a right to believe what they want. No one can make them.

      • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

        And the way we maintain that freedom is by preventing the government from telling us what to believe.  A high school is a government entity.  We protect your right to worship Jesus by not letting the school display quotations from the Qu’ran.

        • MariahE

          I support these girls. And if another school did that, I wouldn’t blow it out of proportion like this is because that is what their belief is. If it was teacher led, yes i would have a problem because that would be and influence on those children. Since this is student led, they haven’t been influenced by anyone. This isn’t about the government in my opinion, but that’s me and everyone has their own perspective and i can respect that. I’m supporting for what i believe in.

          • Gary B

            But if the students are leading it as part of a school activity, then others might see that as the school/teachers allowing it and endorsing it.  There is the influence.

      • Gary B

        Mariah, the key thing here is that cheerleaders on the field are acting as representatives of the school.  It’s unconstitutional to take part in an activity promoting a religion when doing that.  That’s why it’s ok for students to hold the same banner in the crowd.  They are not acting as school representatives.

    • Willy Occam

       Where to begin…

      1) “As a Christian, you are supposed to preach the word of God and what you
      believe in and if people don’t like it, then we pray for them.”

      Please don’t waste your time.  I know “praying for us” makes you all feel really good about yourselves and helps you to earn Jesus points to get into heaven; but it doesn’t mean anything to those of us who don’t believe your fairy tales, and you’d do more good by donating to a charity or giving your time to help people in a tangible and meaningful way, rather than talking to the voices in your head.

      2) “So what about the Muslims and Jews outside sporting events, concerts,
      and grocery stores handing out their flyers and pamphlets about their
      faith?”

      I don’t know what part of the country you live in, but I can’t remember EVER seeing Muslims and Jews handing out pamphlets as you describe — although they (as well as Christians) would have every right to do so as private citizens, as long as they were not representing a publicly-funded organization. 

      3) “You don’t understand how we Christians believe in standing up for what we believe in even if we are standing alone…”

      First of all, you Christians are RARELY “standing alone” in this country, where you folks make up the vast majority of the population — don’t play the persecution card (one of your favorites in the deck, I know); secondly, I would guess that about 90% of the freethinkers on this forum were Christians at one time… so we surely do “understand how [you] Christians believe.”

      Why are you religious zealots so thick-headed regarding these basic issues, such as the difference between “separation of church and state” and “freedom of speech”?  Get over your Christian privilege and your need to “preach the word of God” to every person you meet. 

      Sheesh….

      • MariahE

        Why are you guys so rude? Stop bagging on what we believe in. I haven’t bagged on another religion. Yes praying is what i believe in so don’t try to tell me to stop because i won’t. I wouldn’t tell you to stop worshipping Buddha if you were a Buddhist. You type of people are trying to stop the whole nation’s freedom of religion. And i wasn’t referring to the other comments but just to this article above and what this person said. So please do not try to tell me what to do, because I have freedom for what i want to do. Thank you.

        • Willy Occam

           “You type of people are trying to stop the whole nation’s freedom of religion.”

          See, this is what I’m talking about!  Your comment is absolutely untrue; you really have NO CLUE of what is at issue here.  Our criticism of superstition is not oppression of your religion.  Of course, I can have my opinions (even if you perceive them as rude), and you can have your opinions (even if I perceive them as delusional); but the great thing about this country is that both of our rights are protected by the Constitution.  What is *not* allowed — and what you people who are supporting this action simply don’t get — is the official  endorsement of religion by a PUBLIC institution, and how that is different than PRIVATE action.  It’s really not that difficult of a concept to understand, as long as your mind is not clouded by your beliefs.

        • michael both

          Buddhists don’t worship Buddha – please educate yourself about other religions or non-belief before making comments.

          Prayer, especially public prayer, is one of the most selfish of actions; you declare that you are ‘doing something’ to help or assist without actually doing anything at all, all for making yourself feel better for ‘doing something’.

  • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

    Laws prohibiting stepping on each other seem a lot more frivolous to elephants than to mice.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mary-Creekmore/1030966779 Mary Creekmore

    Whyo you care if people want to hold signs with Bible verses?  How does it affect you?  I don’t get it.  What if the signs had quotes from Plato or Socrates?

    • Willy Occam

       Why does it seem like none of the Christians on this forum are actually reading the comments???  These questions have been answered over and over and over again in the 300+ comments above!  All you have to do is read them and THINK a little bit. 

      • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

        Actually, I found a new argument on a different site.  “many religions are based on the bible and believe the scriptures, but the act of placing a bible scripture on a banner does not promote just one religion. Catholics as well as Christians believe the Bible. There are many denominations that believe in the bible as well.”

        So, since they’re not promoting just one religion, it must be legal, right?

        I have to admit I never thought anyone could misunderstand the constitution enough to come up with that one.

        • Anonymous Atheist

          Since they think even the various subcategories of Christianity count as separate religions, just about every possible church-state violation we’d complain about is now okey-dokey under this ‘not promoting only one religion’ loophole idea.

        • Willy Occam

          Right, Rich… and this is their basis for interpreting “freedom of religion” as meaning that the founding fathers intended the citizens of the US to choose from any of many possible religions, whether it be Methodist or Presbyterian or Lutheran or Pentecostal or Baptist or Seventh Day Adventist or Catholic or….

          Yes, one big, diverse melting pot of religions out there to choose from.

        • Willy Occam

          Right, Rich… and this is their basis for interpreting “freedom of religion” as meaning that the founding fathers intended the citizens of the US to choose from any of many possible religions, whether it be Methodist or Presbyterian or Lutheran or Pentecostal or Baptist or Seventh Day Adventist or Catholic or….

          Yes, one big, diverse melting pot of religions out there to choose from.

    • Gary B

      Mary, we don’t care if students hold up Bible verse signs in the stands at the football game.  We care if students do so while acting as representatives of the school in an official capacity (i.e. cheerleaders on the field at a football game).  It communicates that the school agrees with and supports one particular religion.  This in turn communicates to people at that school who don’t subscribe to that religion that the school doesn’t respect their beliefs, that they are an outsider, and they don’t belong there.  People in the stands holding signs are clearly representing themselves and not the school.

  • cipher

    The comments posted here by Texans serve as a collective testimony to the quality of the Texas educational system. Don McLeroy, the dentist/creationist who was chair of the Texas State Board of Education before being forced to step down, has much to be proud of. He decimated far more than he realized.

    I’ll say it again – we need mandatory testing of intelligence, sanity and developmental level as a prerequisite for voting and reproduction.

    • Willy Occam

       ” …we need mandatory testing of intelligence, sanity and developmental level as a prerequisite for voting and reproduction.”

      I’m sure such a policy would lead to a sharp decrease in the American population within a few generations. 

      • cipher

         Without question.

  • B_R_Deadite99

    Whenever you expect Christians to take the high path, you should prepare yourself for disappointment.

  • pagansister

    Is it God’s will if they lose their games?  Maybe when they do lose, it proves they didn’t “Pray hard enough”.   

  • Monado

    I wouldn’t mind them putting up religious verses if I could pick the verses. Yours is good. I’d also add the one about not praying in public, selling all you have and giving the money to the poor, and killing children if they talk back to their parents. 

  • Monado

    You have atheists in the audience whether you know it or not. You are rubbing their noses in your religion and making them feel like outcasts. That is against the First Amendment and the Fourteenth Amendment. It is illegal to promote religion over non-religion or one religion over another. Anything on the program of a game, from student-led prayer on the field to cheerleaders promoting their scripture, is wrong. You could, theoretically design a program that used scriptures but did not privilege religion. For example, you coul have a banner that said, “There’s probably no God. Now, go out and play to win” and one each for three or four religions such as Islam, Hinduism, Wicca, and Christianity or Buddhism, Sikhism, Islam, and Jainism. Then your display would be legal. But since your aim is probably to promote and privilege your religion over all others or over reality, you might lose interest.

  • Joel Lim

    Can Jesus make both teams win?


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