A Church for Atheists Gets Hundreds of Attendees in Tulsa, Oklahoma

It was just a couple of weeks ago that I was talking about former Pastor Mike Aus and his weekly “Church for atheists” in Houston, Texas.

Now, Rev. Marlin Lavanhar at All Souls Unitarian Church in Tulsa, Oklahoma is doing something very similar — and very successful:

Rev. Marlin Lavanhar speaks at an atheist church service (James Gibbard – Tulsa World)

“These are people who are not inspired to live their lives a certain way by ideas of God or by Scripture but who have the same human needs for community, compassion, meaning and marking the significant passages of birth, coming of age, marriage and death,” he said.

Lavanhar said the church started the humanist service in September, partly in response to the rapid growth of atheism in society.

“If I can’t make my case for loving your neighbor without reference to God and Scripture, then I am truly going to miss a huge segment of the population who may find themselves permanently outside the walls of organized religion,” he said.

Lavanhar said the new 8:30 a.m. non-theist service has drawn as many as 280 people and averages between 100 and 200.

280 people?! For an atheist service in Oklahoma?! That’s pretty goddamn impressive.

To be fair, Lavanhar is religious and saving souls is part of his game plan:

Many people who come to All Souls as atheists have not rejected God but their fourth-grade concept of God, he said.

“I say to them, ‘Tell me what God you don’t believe in, and I’ll probably tell you I don’t believe in that God either.’ ”

As they learn more, they sometimes come to a theistic position, he said.

Um… how about the God who answers prayers, plays a role in our lives, and loves us? How about the God who was born of a virgin and came back to life after dying? I reject that one.

And who are these atheists who begin to believe in God? Where are the interviews with them? We never hear from these mysterious former atheists…

Even though I’m pretty sure I would never attend a service like this, the fact that some atheists are attending it regularly is proof enough that some of us like that sort of community. It’s possible to have all the trappings of church without all the bullshit it normally comes wrapped in. Lavanhar is smart to offer the service. If other churches haven’t followed in his footsteps, they will be soon enough.

(via The Blaze)

About Hemant Mehta

Hemant Mehta is the chair of Foundation Beyond Belief and a high school math teacher in the suburbs of Chicago. He began writing the Friendly Atheist blog in 2006. His latest book is called The Young Atheist's Survival Guide.

  • angryrachel

    I go to this service almost every week. It’s the only humanist service in my area, and it’s always based on a poem or a reading or music (a few weeks ago, it was a reading from Alice in Wonderland). Unfortunately, the Tulsa World took what is really a fantastic place for people of multiple faiths and no faith to get together and talk about our world and what we can do to better it and turned it into ZOMG ATHEISTS IN TULSA LOL THEY GO TO CHURCH.

    • http://www.theaunicornist.com Mike D

      Are you involved in ACT at all?

      • angryrachel

        If that’s the group that meets at Kilkenny’s once a month, no. I had several negative interactions with that group while I worked at the restaurant. Negative is actually an understatement. If you’re referring to a different group, then I don’t think I’ve heard of it!

        • Interested

          I’d be interested to hear what experiences you had as we’ve never had a single complaint and are welcomed with open arms by the management and employees alike. (ACT)

          • angryrachel

            Whoever the president was about a year and a half ago (the gentleman that liked to wear devil horns) was incredibly rude to me and treated me like I was less than dirt. The most frustrating part was that he was egged on by some of the people in the group. That ruined my perception of ACT. I decided that I did not want to ever be involved in a group that would allow themselves to be led by someone who thought it was okay to treat people that poorly.

            • Explained

              He has not been in leadership for over two years, well before my time in ACT actually. A lot has changed in ACT in two years. I apologize if his behavior offended you, sincerely. We’re an organization with over 800 diverse members and I certainly hope you won’t let an encounter like that judge all of us. I’m sorry that happened.  We have a few rowdy members now but generally speaking, we’re an articulate, respectable lot and we tip very well. Have a good night Rachel.

            • Jiveturkey666

              As the current VP and soon to be President of ACT I would like to ask you to reconsider your decision to not get involved. I do understand your decision however I can honestly say that we have changed for the better in the past 2.5 years. The gentleman you mentioned has not been in a leadership position in over 2 years. In his defense he is an amateur comedian and has a very different sense of humor that can easily be taken the wrong way. I apologize for his rudeness and you will not be treated with anything less than dignity and respect if you do choose to give us another try. I think you will be very pleased with the wonderful people you meet. :) Look us up on FB!!! 

              Sincerely, Eric 

        • JLFY

          I’m a part of ACT. I’ve heard nothing but good from the management.

        • Jiveturkey666

          Yes, please give examples of some of the negative interactions you had. I know that at least two of the servers who fight for our section since we tend to tip much larger than other patrons. I am not saying you are wrong because there are assholes in every group. However, the group as a whole is made up of great, like minded individuals. 

  • Erp

    All Souls Tulsa  is the largest UU congregation with a physical location in the country with over  1900 members (though it jousts a bit with a couple of others).     My guess is it is the safety net for all those burnt out by the far more conservative churches in Tulsa.   Note  they are getting 100+ people at _8:30am_ on Sunday.   I wonder if the reporter couldn’t get up that early to interview people in the pews?

    The description from the website of the 8:30am service is: “The Point is a service that draws from history,
    philosophy, literature, poetry and nature.  Come and experience Love
    Beyond Belief in this Humanist service.  No robes, no hymns, no prayers
    or scriptures.  Just a relevant message, inspiring music by Rick Fortner
    and friends, and a community committed to the common good.  Join us on
    this journey of depth and discovery.”

    BTW a fair number of UUs  (of those who don’t call themselves atheists) have a definition of God that pretty much comes out to be ‘nature’.   

  • http://www.theaunicornist.com Mike D

    I can’t believe I haven’t heard of this. I have some friends who go to All Souls.

    I don’t know how interested I’d be in a non-theistic “sermon”. Tulsa has tons of historic churches that are incredibly beautiful, and I always think it’d be way cooler if there was a weekly science meeting instead…. a six-week series on astronomy, six weeks on biology…. how awesome would that be?

    • Deven Kale

       I’d totally go to that if there were such a thing in my area.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=116400943 Leo Buzalsky

       Maybe you could go to one on an investigative mission and report back to us on what all the hubbub is about?

  • http://www.flickr.com/photos/chidy/ chicago dyke

    this is the part where i say i’m really, really glad i learned about a “sense of community” via politics, and not churching. in politics you get to know your neighbors and feel like you’re part of something… but you don’t have to get up at the crack of dawn on a sunday to do it, and in fact, more often than not it’s something you’re doing along with drinking, eating free food, and if you’re lucky, having fun with pretty ladies of questionable moral standing. /naughty

    but seriously, i feel sorry for folks in OK. i suppose it’s just impossible for many to imagine: you don’t need to show up en masse and listen to bad music and someone lecturing you (and give them money)  in order to be a good person, be part of your community, find meaning in life… 

    there are some really good books for that last part you can read, and countless other community activities that actually do something good for the community and not just the individual ego. a truly “good” person understands that it is not about being seen as a “good” person in regular public ceremony, but actually helping people in need, that proves the goodness of the person. every hour spent sitting on your ass in a church, even one where ‘no religion’ is preached, is an hour those people are not out feeding the poor, healing the sick, protecting the weak, etc. 

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_LJ3YWZEE6A46RUDHWPGYVSK4DI david e

    ” ‘Tell me what God you don’t believe in, and I’ll probably tell you I don’t believe in that God either.’ ”

    I can’t begin to count how many times I’ve heard some variation of that condescending question from theists.  The vast majority of atheists are familiar with the full range of conceptions of God.  We aren’t atheists because we have a “fourth-grade concept of God.”  Tell what God you believe in, whichever variety it may be, and I can tell you why I’m not persuaded it exists.

    • http://www.flickr.com/groups/invisiblepinkunicorn Anna

      Ugh, I was so put off by that smug, condescending statement that I would never consider going to that church, even if I was interested in some form of religious community. And Unitarians are supposed to be the sane ones! It just shows that even the tamest religions are often fully convinced of their own superiority.

    • Octoberfurst

       I’ve heard that exact same phrase dozens of times  and it gets under my skin too.  It’s as if I am so dense that I never considered the fact that there are people who DON’T have a conservative fundamentalist view of God. Like I am going to hear their “nice guy” view of God and say, “Oh wow! Cool!  I can certainly believe in THAT God!”  No, it doesn’t work that way.
        I have been a conservative Christian. I have been a liberal Christian. I have studied other faiths and I have found no credible evidence for ANY God. I don’t believe in a vengeful God. I don’t believe in a loving God.  I don’t believe in Allah, Krishna, Zeus or any one of the hundreds of other “Gods” out there.  I don’t believe in any all powerful supernatural being.  Period!

      • Georgina

         But Thor MUST be real, it thunders a lot here.

        • Octoberfurst

           Hmm, you’ve got a good point there. I may have to reconsider my position. All hail Thor!!!   ;-)

          • Mark W.

             Oh great!  Now everyone is going to worship Thor.  Some of us worshiped him BEFORE it was popular.

            • Octoberfurst

              Hey better late than never!

    • Piet Puk

      ” ‘Tell me what God you don’t believe in, and I’ll probably tell you I don’t believe in that God either.’ ”
      I don’t believe in all of them, thanks you very much.

  • Guest

    Love your neighbor as long as he agrees with you. Do good as long as it is with someone else’s money and it entertains yourself and make you feel superior. Draw from philosophy ,literature, poetry and nature, activities associated with the educated elite that once were either the rulers or those most closely assosiated with the rulers such as the Brahmins, the Mandarins, the Priests before a merchant class rose up to challenge their positions. Atheist church or atheist hcruhc?

    • Coyotenose

      What in the world are you talking about?

      • Marco Conti

        Wish I could tell you but I have no idea either, just in case you thought it was just you.

        • http://www.flickr.com/photos/chidy/ chicago dyke

          s/he was referring to the liberal tradition in this country which, when it rejects fundamentalist protestant christianity, turns to other faiths from “exotic” lands as a substitute. 

          liberal believers often do this because they can’t let go of the need to “believe in something,” despite any convincing evidence that Dolphin Buddha or Elephant Ganesh are more “real” than Jeebus.

           but they feel superior to more traditional christians because they think non-western traditions are somehow deeper or more superior, because, they are “exotic.”

          • Coyotenose

            You think so? I get what you’re describing (and it’s really annoying sometimes), but the post read more to me like just a dig at atheists/liberals/socialists. I was trying to not jump the gun because, well, I do that sometimes. >.>

      • Octoberfurst

        I had no idea what Guest was talking about either. I think it was just sanctimonious babble.

  • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/ Kevin_Of_Bangor

    8:30 AM? I’m still in bed at that time unless I woke up to pee but them I’m back off to bed for a few but even if it was later I would still not attend. I did that enough as a child and young adult. No desire to return to it.

  • Coyotenose

    “Many people who come to All Souls as atheists have not rejected God but their fourth-grade concept of God, he said.”

    Smart he may be, but he’s also a dishonest asshole.

    • rlrose328

      He obviously knows no genuine atheists because I have never met one who has a fourth-grade concept of God.  Most of us have searched, read, and researched the god of our parents, our country, our friends, and those we come across while reading about all of those.  We have a good idea and at least working knowledge of the world’s deities and find none of them to be factual.  This guy needs to work hard to know atheists, that is certain.

    • http://twitter.com/InMyUnbelief TCC

      To be fair, he could be right that many of the people who come to his church have a fourth-grade concept of God, in which that doesn’t speak well for his congregation. It says nothing about atheists at large, though.

      • Coyotenose

         I get that, but I feel the subtext of this statement is that he’s dismissive of atheists’ arguments, and that he plays apologetics games to get around valid criticism of the Bible and its characters.

        Admittedly, this could just be a slip of the tongue that sounds unintentionally condescending, but I’m not inclined to think so, given how these things usually go and his stated purpose of conversion.

  • chriss65

    I don’t think Unitarians are the same as Unitarian Universalist.  They do not preach God, nor push it on anyone in anyway.

  • http://www.facebook.com/tastybrain Tim Ostrander

    I can see good things coming out of  the services, but I doubt that many atheists are actually attending them. I would imagine that many of the preacher’s believing parishioners attend the atheist services as well.

    Frankly, however, I’d rather attend a poetry reading, a book discussion, or a philosophy lecture. There are pastors I know whom I respect deeply, but the run-of-the-mill preacher tends to bore the Jesus out of me.

  • http://friendlyatheist.com Richard Wade

    Many people who come to All Souls as atheists have not rejected God but their fourth-grade concept of God, he said.

    “I say to them, ‘Tell me what God you don’t believe in, and I’ll probably tell you I don’t believe in that God either.’ ”

    I’ve listened to elaborate descriptions of the Master’s level concept of God, and impenetrable discussions of the PhD level concept of god, and they’re just as unconvincing as the fourth grade concept.

    • Marco Conti

      Very good Richard. Took the words out of my mouth.

  • Ida Know

    Uh, obviously the answer to “what god don’t I believe in” would be “any god”. If there were only one god I didn’t believe in, that would mean I did believe in all the other gods people have worshipped throughout history and in every culture, which would make me not an atheist but a theist. So, nice try.

  • EivindKjorstad

    I’d go – if this was honest.

    But he seems like a lying, disrespectful asshole. It’s not an “atheist service” if the ultimate goal is to convert people, and no, I don’t need sermons from someone who thinks that my world-view is based on 4th grade notions, and that the reason I don’t believe in God is that I don’t know enough about religion.

    If I started holding christian sermons, but disclosed that my real goal was to make people stop believing, and that really most christians are just childishly following the lead of their parents and society rather than having any independent thought of their own — would christians think this is a good idea, and would they want to attend ?

  • rlrose328

    There is nothing that would draw me to any church or organization like this.  I contacted the UUs in my 50-mile area and all of them are headed by ministers and have truly theistic services.  (I’m in Oregon, btw.)  If he is out to get souls for God, I don’t care how informal and fun it might be, what poems he is reading, or what music is playing.  It is still church with a theistic undertone and I want no part of it.

    If it fills a gap needed by atheists or agnostics or “nature” loving people, then more power to them.  I just want social opportunities and a possible place for my son to meet like-minded people because our little town near Portland is overrun with Mormons and Evangelicals who tsk-tsk my cat-fish and science-spaceship fish emblems as being overtly anti-Christian (though one of my Christian friends does love the cat-fish emblem).  I want a place that may have chili potlucks in the fall, summer trips to theme parks for the teens, and regular coffee socials to just hang and talk about everything and nothing, not necessarily related to religion or politics, tough those most certainly would come up, I’m sure.

    I know I’ll never find it (thought I hate once, but it turned out bad), but it is still a dream.

    • Octoberfurst

       You speak my mind.  I too would love something like that but there is nothing like it around anywhere.  Maybe we should start our own groups?

  • http://twitter.com/M_Shale Marcellus Shale

    Not buying the underlying assumption that atheists just haven’t found the right religion yet. The patronizing nod at agnostics, as they paint Atheists as one good mindfuck from singing with the choir.
    Yes i realize its a terrible analogy, but believers force binary conditions on non-believers, in a similar way that gay or straight is a forced construction to people who’s orientation is best described as non-binary. 

  • I_Claudia

    I would just like to caution anyone reading this article and concluding “It’s a theist trap!” that it’s just as likely that the  Tulsa World had its editorial line and stuck to it instead of a fair reflection of the service itself.

    There are no interviews with congregants and the one person in this comments section who actually attends this service seems satisfied. I personally doubt you could get over 100 atheists to regularly attend a service meant to carefully evangelize to them. People would notice and stop attending.

    Of course, the reverend is a theist so yes, he believes that even this service can bring you “closer to God”. Whenever I speak to the very liberal theists its clear that they think any good activity can bring you closer to God (or “the divine”, or “energy” or whatever nebulous concept they have). He may think this service brings you closer to his concept of a god, but that doesn’t mean he treats it as a first step on the road to conversion.

    I would bet money that his statement of “coming to a theistic position” was in response to a direct question of “Has anyone come as an atheist and then converted?”. The honest answer to that could well be yes. You can forget within the cocoon of the atheist community that a lot of people don’t really understand what “atheist” means. In all surveys you find that a certain percentage of self-identified “atheists” answer the question “do you believe in God?” in the affirmative. These people are not atheists, they are confused theists who think atheism is to reject literalist gods or orthodox religions. Some of these people will find their way to a UU church and discover that there is a theist path for them after all. Not because they were atheists who “saw the light” but because they learned to define themselves better.

    • snicketmom

      Thank you, I_Claudia for this thoughtful explanation. My first impression of this is that something must have been taken out of context here if the article says the minister is trying to convert. That would not be aligned with the UU Principles at all, which encourage each person to search for their own truth and meaning. My experience with UU’s (being one) is that they do not try to convert and are very respectful of individual choices. Of course, there are thousands of ministers I haven’t met, and maybe some act in ways I would find surprising, but I would guess there is greater context to Lavanhar saying attendees “sometimes come to a theistic position”. That is not saying that he tries to convert them. I understand that taken out of context, or possibly in context, his statements may sound condescending. I wonder if he would be interested in clarifying for those of us who are interested in learning more about his service?

      • Kat

        Agreed.  As an atheist who attends a UU congregation, I have found a community that suits my needs for spiritual exploration (not theism), intellectual stimulation and opportunities for helping others.  I especially enjoy the Agnostic, Humanist, Atheist group.  By the way, snicketmom, I’m the lady on the bus.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_LJ3YWZEE6A46RUDHWPGYVSK4DI david e

      “In all surveys you find that a certain percentage of self-identified “atheists” answer the question “do you believe in God?” in the affirmative.  These people are not atheists, they are confused theists who think atheism is to reject literalist gods or orthodox religions. ”

      More likely they got paid about 25 cents to take that survey on Amazon Mechanical Turk (or someplace similar) and were hardly motivated to do more than skim the questions and check boxes as fast as they could—not bothering to go back and correct a mischecked box.

  • http://www.junglehope.wordpress.com/ Lana

    community is a good idea, but without a God, I don’t think “church” is a good word for it.

  • Danny Klopovic

     And who are these atheists who begin to believe in God? Where are the
    interviews with them? We never hear from these mysterious former
    atheists…

    Could you elaborate on this point – in other words, is it your view that atheists do not become theists?

    • Minus

       I have spoken with several folks who said they were atheists who became theists.  In all cases they were people who became “angry with god,” because of some personal tragedy or set back.  So, in my estimation, they never really stopped believing in god, but were just mad at “him.”

    • Coyotenose

       Oh they do. We sometimes see articles about them linked here. Based on earlier posts here and by others, I think what is meant is something like this: Many, many theists have these vague conversion anecdotes that totally lack details or verisimilitude, yet we almost never hear from verified convertees, which is suspicious.

      And when we do hear from them, quite often their stories don’t match up to having been atheists, but to having been agnostics or uninvolved theists. This seems to be related to the Born-Again Fisherman’s Story*, where convertees play up rather fiercely how much they sinned before becoming religious. Smoking some pot in high school becomes “I was a hopeless drug addict”, for instance.

      *Is there a real term for this?

  • http://www.facebook.com/Kailoa Kailoa Pulupēikemele

    I’m an atheist member of First Unitarian Church in Louisville, KY. If saving souls is part Rev. Lavanhar’s game plan he is a strange Unitarian. “Saving souls is just not a Unitarian-Universalist idea: saving lives, yes; building character, certainly; healing hearts, absolutely; but saving souls, sorry, that stadium closed and the team left town.

    And, if Lavanhar asked me what god I didn’t believe in, I’d tell him, as I tell fellow Unitarians in Louisville who ask me that, “I don’t believe in any gods; you tell me what you believe and why and I’ll tell you what I think about it.”

  • Jose

    “Many people who come to All Souls as atheists have not rejected God but their fourth-grade concept of God, he said.”How very insulting this statement is. This could easily be rephrased as, “Many people who come to All Souls as atheists have not rejected god (because he’s totally real), but their fourth-grade concept of god (because atheists are all children throwing a tantrum against god… who, again, is totally real). Excuse me, your bias is showing.“I say to them, ‘Tell me what God you don’t believe in, and I’ll probably tell you I don’t believe in that God either.’ ” I don’t believe in any gods, you supercilious prick. Do some research on the people you’re attempting to reach out to. I’m not a strong atheist by any means, but weak atheism still says, “Cough up the evidence before I believe in Deity number one.”"As they learn more, they sometimes come to a theistic position, he said.”Missionary? Every once in a while, but it gets dull.

  • http://www.facebook.com/gregm766 Gregory Marshall

    It’s guys like this that I like using the term polyatheist for, no concept of god I have ever heard makes sense, whether it be a “fourth-grade concept of God.” or some deisticpantheistic god (which I always add “why call that god”).

  • http://www.aicwebmaster.net/ Richard Smith

    How atheist can you be, if you go to church on Sunday? I’d still rather play golf!!!

  • CoboWowbo

    The article is from ” The Blaze” … need I say more?

    • Octoberfurst

      The Blaze??? Ugh!  Anything that idiot site advocates I am against!

  • MikeAus

    I just wanted to clarify that we at Houston Oasis do not use the term “church” to describe what we’re doing.   We are a humanistic community exploring life from a thoroughly secular perspective with no metaphysical claims whatsoever.  (This week’s guest speaker is a paleontologist.)  Our weekly gatherings are on Sunday morning simply because that is the time most of our group is available.  We are, however, very grateful for being mentioned on “Friendly Atheist!”

    • Antinomian

      I may be moving to Houston after the first of the year. I’ll have to look y’all up. 

  • Sue Blue

    I don’t know…this just looks like a clever conversion effort to me.  He even says so “…as they learn more, they sometimes come to a theistic position”.  It also lends fuel to the fire for theists who are always claiming that “atheism is a religion” because it’s “dogmatic” and it “takes just as much faith to NOT believe in God”.  

    I think there are better ways for atheists to enjoy a sense of community than by aping religious services or gathering in churches.  There are atheist organizations galore; frequent meetings would be good, as well as promoting community service.  Anything but an “atheist church”.

  • advancedatheist

    I grew up in Tulsa, and I can assure you that adults with a 4th grade understanding of the world can feel right at home there. 

  • Crystal

    I’m confused by this article and the comments. In all the services I have attended there, Marlin has never come across to me as condescending or trying to save people. One of the things I love about All Souls is that they don’t care what I believe or don’t believe, and no one is going to give me a hard time for not agreeing with them. Somehow, that All Souls did not come across in this article. It comes across as a completely different church. 

    • Ron Stevens

      Agreed, these people are reacting to something they have no knowledge.  I’ve been a member at All Souls for ages, and know that radical diversity is a cornerstone of that church, not “converting” anyone to believe in any particular ultimate belief.  

      • Ron Stevens

        Also, how often do newspaper stories get the stories completely right?  Rev. Lavanhar said as much last Sunday…that the story wasn’t completely accurate.  But, y’all go ahead and react.  

        • Ron Stevens
          • Ron Stevens

            The videos here will help to clarify this a bit.   By the way, he says he didn’t focus on atheism in the newspaper interview…they did that.  He was talking about humanism, which as you (should) know, is not always synonymous with atheism.  Again, I would suggest that it’s not always wise to believe everything you read in the newspapers, especially on the subject of atheism.  

            • http://www.flickr.com/groups/invisiblepinkunicorn Anna

              Is he claiming that he was misquoted?

              This is directly from the article:

              Many people who come to All Souls as atheists have not rejected God but their fourth-grade concept of God, he said.

              “I say to them, ‘Tell me what God you don’t believe in, and I’ll probably tell you I don’t believe in that God either.’ ”

              As they learn more, they sometimes come to a theistic position, he said.

              Because that right there is incredibly condescending. I cannot stand when theists pretend that their version of their god is oh so sophisticated and enlightened, and that the only reason atheists don’t believe in it is because we were exposed to the “wrong” version.

              Perhaps he doesn’t come across that way in real life. I’ve never met the man, but his obvious bias towards theism turns me right off.  I would never attend his church.

  • nakedanthropologist

    “A fourth grade conception of God” – um, what?  That statement is so incredibly condescending that it put me off his game right there.  Don’t get me wrong, I think that developing humanist communities are a great thing, but this guy and his holier-than-thou attitude are not that way that we should go about it. 

    • Ron Stevens

      He’s been catching it from both the religious fundamentalists and their atheistic counterparts.  Only the latter have been making it personal though.  Must be a lesson there somewhere.

      • http://www.flickr.com/groups/invisiblepinkunicorn Anna

        Gee, now I have two examples of smug arrogance coming from All Souls. You’re comparing us to fundamentalists because we took offense to Lavanhar’s comments? He implied that atheists are ignorant by saying that if we “learn more,” we might start believing in his god. I’m not stupid, and I don’t care to be patronized and condescended to.

  • Maevwen

    See, I would totally go and think others would too, if a service or gathering was non-religious, but offered things that other “religious” events did as well.  Meditations, discussion about ethics and psychology, art, music, food, coming together with strangers under a unified appreciation.  These things are part of our nature I think, so I think it’d be very successful. 

  • Sean McDonough

    I didn’t go to church when i was Catholic, what makes this man think I’m going to go now that I’m an atheist?

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tim-Spriggs/100000082919474 Tim Spriggs

      what?  you didnt want to be an altered boy?  ha ha.

  • Michaelbrice

    ” Come into my parlour. ” said the spider to the fly.

    (Mary Howitt, poet)

  • Guest

    I do not discount that there may be a higher evolved being out there in the cosmos. The cosmos is too expansive to be that naive.  If I were to have a meeting with this higher evolutionary scale being, assuming we could commuicate, I would not call it God.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tim-Spriggs/100000082919474 Tim Spriggs

    I likes it.


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