The Worst Thing a Christian Could Say Following Yesterday’s Tragedy

It’s not a Poe:

I don’t know if I’m more disturbed by the comment or the fact that 41 people “liked” it… (Thank you to John Meredith for his sane response.)

Is it bad that I can’t even bring myself to get outraged over this? I’m so numb from hearing Christians say awful, insensitive things in the wake of tragedies. I know there are Christians out there who are responding to the shootings in a truly helpful way. No one doubts that. But let’s put to rest this notion that being a Christian makes you a better, kinder, more decent human being. It doesn’t and it never has.

About Hemant Mehta

Hemant Mehta is the chair of Foundation Beyond Belief and a high school math teacher in the suburbs of Chicago. He began writing the Friendly Atheist blog in 2006. His latest book is called The Young Atheist's Survival Guide.

  • SeekerLancer

    Right on the mark Hemant. I have a hard time getting angry as well. I’ve just felt nothing but sadness and disgust since yesterday and the way people like John Rennard there are responding isn’t helping.

  • Stev84

    It’s the same “logic” that should make them pro-abortion. According to Christianity, aborted children go to heaven, so we’d be doing them a favor instead of gambling with a significant chance of them going to hell after being born.

    • http://twitter.com/InMyUnbelief TCC

      Typically, this is the point at which I say, “Yeah, but most Christians don’t think that the means necessarily justify the ends, so they wouldn’t buy that logic.” Now I’m wondering if I’ve found one of the exceptions. Either that, or this is a twisted attempt to make sense of the senseless that entirely ignores the grief of people even unrelated to the tragedy.

    • Rwlawoffice

       So you think that Christians who believe in an afterlife don’t value life here on Earth nor do they think that children, born and unborn should be protected from violence? And you call yourself rational?

      On the other hand, “liberal” logic on this very issue is crazy. Liberals who are screaming now that these children should have been protected will scream just as loud that children inside a womb can be killed at the choice of the mother.

      • Graham Martin-Royle

        There are no children in wombs, just potential children.

        • Rwlawoffice

           This is the liberal “logic” that I was pointing out.  Thanks for making it so clear.

          • Isilzha

             In case you’re still not clear…the woman is already a person and not an incubator.

          • Coyotenose

             Your not knowing what words mean, particularly after all the times this issue has been slowly and patiently explained to you, only shows you as shallow- and simple-minded in addition to the pettiness, cruelty, irresponsibility, and dishonesty we’ve already seen you to possess. Go throw some more dollars to pedophiles and murderers while crowing about your “morality”, Serial Liar.

            • cipher

              It’s come to a point at which I urge all of you, strongly, to join me in insisting that Hemant and Richard ban this troll.

              • Rwlawoffice

                 I see you are a lover of free speech. Or is that only when you agree with what is being said?

                • cipher

                  Why are you here? No one wants you here. You convince no one of the rightness of your political or theological beliefs. You do nothing but sow discord by your presence.

                  Why are you here?

                • Rwlawoffice

                  Actually I enjoy the discussion and whether you agree with me or not, I provide a different point of view. I fully understand that no one will agree with me but I do point out misconceptions I see about Christianity as well as the hypocrisy that shows up. And I learn from you guys, evn if I don’t agree with you.

                • cipher

                  I have no doubt that you will be in church this morning, praying for our souls, whereas what you should be praying for is forgiveness for going where you aren’t wanted,  creating disharmony and being a poor representative of  the “love of Christ”.

                  But I fully expect this to escape you, self-evident as it is.

                  Ban the troll, Hemant.

                • Coyotenose

                   It has nothing to do with agreement, Liar. It has to do with your posts being loaded with lies; not merely mistakes, but outright falsehoods. That’s when you’re not just ignoring what people say so you can repeat yourself, which is overt trolling, Liar.

            • Rwlawoffice

               Hey genius, you can call the developing child in the womb whatever you want but it will never be anything less that a human being. And you can repeat the fiction all you want that it is something different but I will never buy into that lie.

              • Baal

                 The law in the bible even doesn’t count the unborn among the living.  Please try again.  Or better yet, understand that condom distribution and sex ed could cut down dramatically on abortions but your awful kind of person doesn’t like those either.

                • Rwlawoffice

                  Wrong Bible buddy. The Christian Bible clearly does. And why do you assume I am against condoms or sex education? I’m all for birth control and age appropriate education. But your assumption that these lead to lower abortion rates is factually incorrect.

                • Coyotenose

                   No, it doesn’t. Read a book. Yes, THAT book. You aren’t “alive” until you breathe air.

                  Oh, and if someone kills a fetus from hitting the mother, it’s okay if she’s his wife, but if she’s not, then he has to pay her husband a small fine for damaging his property. From your Bible, Buddy.

                  Birth control leads to fewer abortions. You can’t be so stupid as to not know that. But you are apparently such a dimwitted shithead that you think that skeptics with Internet access will fall for your lies.

      • Octoberfurst

         You know, you really are sort of a one-note wonder. Yeah we all understand that you are anti-choice. You keep making the same anti-abortion arguments every time you post here. Ok, we get it. Now can you shut up please? You’re starting to sound like a parrot that can only say one phrase.

        • Rwlawoffice

           Oh I get it. I respond with a pro life response to a comment directly related to abortion and I am told to shut up.  Hard to face the reality I guess.

          • unclemike

            No, its more that you bring nothing new to the conversation and your tired arguments have already been countered many times before.

            But keep attacking that windmill, amigo. You amuse me.

            • Thackerie

               Amuses me too. I enjoy the occasional troll because they make me laugh with their stupidity. Eg., “children” in a womb. Jeez Louise! Made me think of clown cars. That right there is comedy gold!

              • Coyotenose

                 Ah goddammit, now I can’t stop picturing it, complete with music.

                • http://itsmyworldcanthasnotyours.blogspot.com/ wmdkitty

                  Dammit, now I’m imagining it, and I can’t stop giggling!

              • cipher

                I don’t find him at all amusing.  It’s come to a point at which I urge all of you, strongly, to join me in insisting that Hemant and Richard ban this troll.

          • Octoberfurst

            This topic was not “directly related” to abortion you moron. Oh wait, I forgot, EVERY topic is related to abortion to you!  Climate change–abortion, solar power–abortion, evolution–abortion, etc.  I’ll bet when your wife–if you have one–makes eggs for breakfast you bring up how this relates to abortion.  What a fun guy you must be to talk to!

            • Rwlawoffice

               Hey genius, my comment about abortion was in direct response to the comment by Stev.84 that was about….Are you ready?…. Abortion.

              • Octoberfurst

                Abortion is all you EVER talk about. You’re obsessed with it and always bring it into the conversation.  When will you get it into your head that we don’t care what you think?  You’re just a reactionary butthead.

                • Brian Scott

                  No, this was unwarranted. Even if it was made in passing, Stev was the one who brought abortion into this.

                • fin312

                  And all you people are rocket scientists?

        • Stev84

          It’s better not to feed the troll. Nothing good has ever come of engaging him

          • cipher

            That much is true – but I don’t like the fact that he feels he can just show up whenever he please, bleating the same hateful nonsense.

            It’s past time for him to go.

        • Sfindley312

          Sucks when your faction gets hit with reality!

          • RobMcCune

            Says the delusional troll out to avenge insults to his imaginary friend.

          • Medusaandhemlock

            Steve Findley, the troll who accidentally outed himself in a Cranston thread? You best trot along home. You’re not very good at this as evidenced by last time.

          • Coyotenose

             That’s the best you can come up with? Jesus you people are simpletons. Raging, distinctly unChristian simpletons.

          • cipher

            Please. You wouldn’t recognize reality if it walked up to you and introduced itself.

          • Baal

             Have your missed the hundreds of hurting people that you and Rwassoffice and other xian trolls keep rubbing salt into the open wounds of?  Really, it’s like you’re seeing a crying person and just to cheer they up you decide to piss on them.  It doesn’t work and does make their (my!) day that much worse.  You look like an unempathic monster.

      • C Peterson

        If you believe in an eternal afterlife, that must result in a devaluation of Earthly life. There is no rational alternative. That isn’t the same as saying Christians don’t value life here on Earth, but it certainly means they undervalue it. To find the maximum value in our lives it is necessary to be free of the insidious mind virus of religion. As long as there is some “better place” we will not properly value our only place.

        • Rwlawoffice

           I disagree that this is a total sum game.  I can value life here greatly even if I believe that there is an afterlife.  One doesn’t take away from the other. Actually, Christians are called to make the most of this life, grow in our faith and enjoy the fruit of the spirit like love, etc.  The victorious Christian life is here on Earth, it is not just the eternity in heaven.

          • C Peterson

            I didn’t say you couldn’t value life here greatly. What I said is that if you believe in an eternal afterlife, it must devalue this life significantly. And in practice, religion has been used throughout the ages as a tool to manipulate people into accepting an inferior life on Earth in exchange for a better one later. It is one of the major ways that religion has created great harm. And continues to do so.

      • Patterrssonn

        How do they get the child back into the womb?

        • http://itsmyworldcanthasnotyours.blogspot.com/ wmdkitty

          Uzumaki, Ch. 11 — that is all. *shiver-twitch*

          • Coyotenose

             Bad Furry! Bad Bad Bad! No more Onlines for you!

            • http://itsmyworldcanthasnotyours.blogspot.com/ wmdkitty

              *whimpers*

              • Coyotenose

                 I never read all of that before, really just that one chapter. That’s… that’s some good horror, despite some inconsistencies. Freaked me out but good in places, and usually without a lot of gore (and when there was gore, it was, um, creatively applied).

                Sooooo, Good Furry! …I think.

                • http://itsmyworldcanthasnotyours.blogspot.com/ wmdkitty

                  You will never look at a spiral *twitch* the same way again…

      • Edmond

        There’s never been a “child” inside a womb.

    • http://cryofly.myopenid.com/ anuran

      But then how can there be logic in religion? There is some chance for liquid water on the sun.

      ps: Talking of logic, I wonder how many can see the sixdollarshirt ad at the bottom of this page… with Jesus riding a dinosaur.

  • DougI

    At least John Rennard will be cheap to shop for this year. 

    • Coyotenose

       *hisses through teeth* Ouch.

  • Rory

    What a sick thing to say. One wonders if he’d be so nonchalant about it if one of his loved ones died suddenly and under such tragic circumstances.

  • Brian Scott

    … wow, that’s just…

    Wow.

  • http://twitter.com/WordsOnIce WordsonIce

    As for the ‘likes’, I think you have to ‘like’ something in order to comment on it? I’m not sure.

    • Rory

       No. The people who liked that comment genuinely think it was a good and positive sentiment to express, as several state explicitly in successive comments.

  • Cortex_Returns

    There’s a lot to be said for deconverting Christians with science and reasoned argument, but they have to be ready to listen to it first. Disgusting, indefensible true-believer bullshit like this can lead someone to start questioning, and religion can’t survive inside a questioning mind for long.

    When I had a classmate on mine die tragically in middle school, I heard a lot of this same reasoning, and stopped believing in Heaven that very day. It just became so obvious that it was nothing more than denial of a reality people weren’t equipped to face.

  • http://www.laughinginpurgatory.com/ Andrew Hall

    I like it when lunatic Christians say what they really think. Their clarity illistrates their faith-based insanity.  

  • http://www.last.fm/user/m6wg4bxw m6wg4bxw

    Oh fuck. If what Rennard believes it true, then his statement is both accurate and reasonable. If what he believes is false, then he is wrong, but not a horrible person.

    • Brian Scott

      I don’t think so. This idea is debilitating. It’s so mind-boggling how clear the implications are (the destruction of a sentient human will guarantee their eternal happiness as long as their young enough) that it grieves me how many people can proclaim it without seeing the danger of the idea.

    • Baal

      No, he’s a horrible person.  Please see the link in these comments on how to not be a total asshole when responding to grief.

      • http://www.last.fm/user/m6wg4bxw m6wg4bxw

        No, thanks.

  • Rosa_beigi

    If you click on the picture it takes you to the status. Most people agree with the original poster…. What is wrong with people? 

  • http://www.kellyjyoungblood.com/ Kelly J Youngblood

    Ugh.  I am a Christian, but these statements I’ve seen such as this one are making me so incredibly angry.  

    • Mjy1945

       You’d be one of the few. Many Christians are probably nodding their heads and saying, “Yes, John Rennard is right; the children are now safe with Jesus.”

      • Coyotenose

         I don’t think she’s one of the few who reject that thinking, but rather, one of the few who reject it and are willing to speak up.

    • Baal

       Thank you for saying so.  Politically minded Christians seem to want to ride this tragedity for all they can get from it.  They won’t be able to hear the message from atheists but if other christians tell them, they may get the message.

      • http://www.kellyjyoungblood.com/ Kelly J Youngblood

        I *think* this was in response to me (according to Disqus), but I can’t seem to find what I said initially…  

        • Coyotenose

           Threads here are really, REALLY screwy when they go past 50 comments. Your original comment was:

          Ugh.  I am a Christian, but these statements I’ve seen such as this one (about the murdered Newtown children getting “the best Christmas present ever) are making me so incredibly angry. 

          • http://www.kellyjyoungblood.com/ Kelly J Youngblood

            Well, thank you for finding that.  Now I remember what I said.  I wish more people (like the one who made that awful comment) would realize that no matter what they believe, that doesn’t mean they should say every thought that occurs to them.

    • Coyotenose

       Thank you. The world needs a lot more people willing to reject rather than excuse awful behavior when it comes from someone on their “side”.

  • http://knottiesniche.com Angelia Phillips

    As a mother who has buried a child all I can say is every time someone told me “He’s in a better place” or “He’s with God now”  I wanted to scream BUT I WANT HIM HERE WITH ME.   There is no comfort in saying such things to a grieving person.  

    • mkbell

      Angelia, I am so sorry for your loss.

      • http://knottiesniche.com Angelia Phillips

        Thank you.  

        • Amy

          Angelia, I’m so sorry for your loss. We’ve experienced the same thing here with similar inane comments. I had one ‘friend’ tell me not to worry because they had baptized my child while sitting for him so, no worries, despite my beliefs he would still be going to heaven and how lucky he was. Well intentioned but so absurd and warped. I see it as a way out from facing the reality that these kids are, sadly, gone.

          • cipher

            I’m so very sorry for both of your losses.

          • http://knottiesniche.com Angelia Phillips

            I am so sorry for your loss.  I am also having a hard time getting past that someone would baptize your child without your consent or knowledge.  SMH   I had similar things said to me by people telling how hard they tried to talk my son out of joining the military.  And we had a lovely Sunday school teacher tell my daughter that her brother was going to hell because he was an Atheist but she needed to be baptized and maybe God would let him in to heaven.  I kind of went freak out off on that idiot because he caused my daughter even more pain and confusion. 

        • Jj84guy

          He is in a better place now

          • http://knottiesniche.com Angelia Phillips

            Nice… love when people think they are funny by trying to inflict pain on others.

          • Lastking903

            Shut the hell up jj

          • Richardballsinhand

            Man Jj, after everything they said this is about the most idiotic douchey thing anyone could post. F you with a hot iron rod…

          • RobertoTheChi

            Have you not been reading anything that people have been saying? Either you’re stupid or cruel.

    • C Peterson

      There is no comfort in such comments to those of us who don’t believe in any afterlife. But no doubt there is to those who do, and for most of history, such comments have been common and presumably soothing responses to death. It helps to see things in this historical cultural perspective.

      Certainly, when such sentiments are offered, the gracious thing to do is accept them as they are meant, which is with the intent to comfort, not to hurt. But we can hope that as society continues to shift towards a more humanistic perspective and the major Bronze Age religions continue their decline, people will recognize that it is arrogant to subtly impose their beliefs on others at times of pain and crisis.

      • Richard

        “Certainly, when such sentiments are offered, the gracious thing to do is accept them as they are meant…”

        It should not be the responsibility of a grieving parent to be gracious. Telling someone, even a believer, in the midst of their grief that they should be happy for the death of their child is insensitive, no matter how well meaning the speaker’s intent. If we are to move beyond Iron Age superstitions as the presumed default position for everyone, these well meaning dolts need to be gently reminded of how inappropriate such comments are.

        • C Peterson

          Your comments don’t address what I said. Of course the comment is insensitive- I said as much. But that doesn’t mean that it isn’t gracious to accept it in the spirit that it was intended.

          The best time to teach people to be more humanist is before they make such comments. The online comment under discussion here is pretty grossly insensitive, coming from a total stranger. I was addressing the situation that someone like Angelia might find herself in, where a friend or acquaintance makes an insensitive but well-intentioned comment. I believe it shows a degree of personal strength to accept such a comment graciously and save any discussion of it for a later time.

        • http://www.facebook.com/katherine.appello.5 Katherine Appello

          I agree that moment is not the time, not right after the incident.

      • http://www.everydayintheparkwithgeorge.com/ Matt Eggler

        “There is no comfort in such comments to those of us who don’t believe in any afterlife.”
        As I have seen with religious friends who have suffered tragedy, there is most often no comfort in such comments for them either.

        • C Peterson

          Really? Although it is hard for me to place myself in the position of a believer, I’m inclined to think I’d find comfort in the reminder that a loved one still existed in the Universe, and that I’d one day see them again.

          It seems to me that humans take comfort in ritual, and these platitudes are part of the rituals surrounding death.

          • http://knottiesniche.com Angelia Phillips

            If christians find comfort in such sentiments why do they cry at funerals? Wouldn’t they be celebrating the death with joy? 

            • C Peterson

              Finding some comfort is quite different from finding complete relief!

              I can’t fully explain why those who believe in a beautiful afterlife are so sad when a loved one dies. It doesn’t seem entirely rational… but then, the belief in an afterlife is inherently irrational. The best I can do is this: even if somebody lives on after death, we are still disconnected from them. We can still feel sorrow because we will miss them. People cry when friends and loved ones move far away. They don’t have to die.

              • http://www.flickr.com/groups/invisiblepinkunicorn Anna

                But separation is always treated as different from death. Having your child out of contact, even in a far away place, is a completely different social and emotional experience than having your child die.

                Our society treats death like the final separation that it is, which is why I’ve always thought that no one, deep down, in the core of their being, truly believes that people are immortal. Otherwise, there would not be such fear, grief, and anguish surrounding death. 

                • C Peterson

                  It’s entirely possible you are correct. Despite the dogma, nobody has the slightest evidence of an afterlife. That has to influence the thoughts and emotions of even the most devout believers.

                  Humans are certainly not completely rational animals, but neither are we completely irrational.

            • http://www.flickr.com/groups/invisiblepinkunicorn Anna

              I think it’s because, subconsciously, all people know that death is the end. Otherwise, the grief and behavior surrounding death makes no sense. Although I’m sure theists’ conscious minds hold on to the idea of eventual reunion, something inside stops them from feeling the kind of joy and celebration that you would expect if they truly did believe that their loved one had received “the greatest Christmas present ever.”

              • Matt O’Neal

                 Anna- this is a very poignant comment. I haven’t given this much thought before, but I think you’re completely correct. Of course, not many believers would admit the finality of death, but I’ll bet many believe it deep down. Many just don’t want to accept it.

                • http://www.flickr.com/groups/invisiblepinkunicorn Anna

                  Indeed, although I would go further to say that I don’t think most of them are consciously aware of it. In their minds, they are 100% convinced of an afterlife, but subconsciously, it rings hollow, hence the grief and tears.

              • Seriously?

                That’s ridiculous. People cry when they bring their kids off to college, when a friend moved away, when an relationship breaks up. It’s knowing you aren’t going to see them for however long.

            • Michele

              Personally I cry for MY loss of the peson and what could have been in the future. Just because you believe your loved one has gone to a better place doesn’t mean you don’t grieve the physical loss of their presence. My son died 5 years 5 months and 20 days ago. I still grieve the physical loss of him, but he believed in God and Heaven and stated several days before his tragic accident that if he died he knew where he would be going and felt comfortable with that. We all grieve in different ways and no one has the right to tell you how you should feel about the death of family, friends and even people unknown to you that die through such tragic events as yesterday.

            • Jncunni2

              for the same reason you would cry if you knew you were about to be separated from your husband or best friend for 20 years – all the wasted time, missed experiences, destroyed possibilities.  seriously, even if you knew you’d be reunited you’d be horrified at the separation.

          • Janet Holmes

             No they don’t find comfort, but they do have the added burden of thinking that they should. If little Johnny is in heaven with Jesus how can I be such a crap mother as to not be happy for him? It’s just another way religion makes it impossible to measure up to its standards.

          • http://www.everydayintheparkwithgeorge.com/ Matt Eggler

            I have found this puzzling as well. While I wouldn’t want to claim that I have found the answer, in some cases I have come to suspect that my friends are not as confident in their beliefs as they outwardly protest.

      • http://knottiesniche.com Angelia Phillips

        You are assuming I don’t believe in an afterlife. I never said I didn’t. I never stated what my beliefs are. 

         As for being gracious.. I was, even as people spoke stupid hurtful things to me.  With one exception I did not behave graciously when I was told “it could have been worse”.  Yeah that one sent me over the flipping edge. 

        • C Peterson

          Fair enough. And I did not mean to suggest that you were not gracious… indeed, it seemed likely that you were given that you described what you wanted to do (entirely understandable!), not what you actually did.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/James-Buchy/542338898 James Buchy

          “it could have been worse” That has GOT to be one of the STUPIDEST things you can say to ANYbody under ANY tragic circumstance.  “Aww, one of your 6 kids died? Too bad, but cheer up! It could have been worse, 3 kids could have died but only one did so you still have 5 left!” Some people are just a waste of air and groceries.

          • http://knottiesniche.com Angelia Phillips

            I was in walmart, my first public outing after the funeral, and this woman spouted that one off. I went nuts screaming at her to tell me HOW it could be worse I had just buried my child HOW. My husband walked up behind me picked me up by the waist and carried me out of the store with managers running after us to find out what the hell happened.  I felt horrible after because I had promised my son that if he was KIA I would not behave badly.

            • Baal

               I find your response human and not behaving badly.  xians need to hear the message that their standard comforting statements are anything but.

            • the moother

              On behalf of stupid people everywhere I apologise for the hurt caused by their stupid remarks.

            • RobertoTheChi

              Wow! I can’t even imagine how hard this has been for you. I am truly sorry for your loss. As if things weren’t hard enough for you, you had to deal with some flaming asshole saying something so heartless. I don’t blame you for screaming, I’m sure I would have beat the ever loving shit out of someone if they said that to me. And again…I am so sorry for your loss.

      • Crazyart

        Well, whem my sister was killed 33 years ago (1989) unjustly by a police officer she was dating, and when after all the pain and grief of the unjustifiable act is more than dishearting and is something that stays with you for all of life (that is if you have any humanity in you). So I can’t be so gracious to accept some “meant to be” conforting statement such as, “be assured that she is sleeping peacefully while laying in the hollow of his hand.” What confort do I gleen from that when her life was taken and her murderer never caught, tried, or convicted, so what then? Do I then accept that god works in “mysterious ways” when more people died in his name than for any other reason. The gracious thing for them is not to say nothing and keep your religious ramblings to yourself.

    • Miss_Beara

       I am sorry for your loss as well. I cannot imagine someone saying those heartless comments to me. I think I would explode.

      :: hug ::

    • http://godless.biz Andrew Skegg

      As a parent, I cannot imagine the sense of loss and despair you must feel. I also know there is nothing I could say to ease your pain. So sad :(

    • Chad Maxwell

      I lost my Son to sids. Still no comfort in that loss nor will there ever be. I miss him and would rather have him here, then in the Here-after. There is no Consoling someone who has lost. you can only support them in what ever way they are willing to Accept, and hope that they dont become lost. 

      • RobertoTheChi

        I am very sorry for your loss.

    • http://www.kellyjyoungblood.com/ Kelly J Youngblood

      When I attended the funeral of my friend’s daughter who died just shortly after birth, the pastor basically called out the people who had made those types of comments and said they were not helpful and they were not comforting.  Oh, and the one “you can have other children”.  So WHAT?  Another child does not take the place of the one who is gone.  I was very impressed that he did that, and my friend was thankful too, because people had said those things to her.  

  • Artskibeach

    Religion needs to die a quick death before it destroys our civilization… they stop our science, pollute our schools, and suck the money from our economy with their yahooism!

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=513566395 Jackie McClanahan

    They’re just so wrapped up in the fact that they didn’t MEAN to sound insensitive, that they won’t reexamine what they said to see that it was insensitive. The stupid stubbornness that if you admit to being wrong about one thing, you’re admitting to being wrong about everything, thus you can never give ground.

  • Lance Finney

    One one level, we know he doesn’t really believe it. If he really believed that the best Christmas present is death, then he would be killing his children and young relatives for Christmas. After all, if it’s better for the CT to be dead, wouldn’t it be better for his own kids to be dead?

    He doesn’t follow through when it matters to him, so he knows it’s just empty rhetoric.

    • cipher

      “If he really believed that the best Christmas present is death, then he
      would be killing his children and young relatives for Christmas.”

      They have an out for that – it’s against God’s word. It’s how they justify their anti-abortion activities as well, even though according to their reasoning, the souls of the fetuses are in a “better place”.

      • Stev84

        It’s also what prevents them from killing themselves as a shortcut to heaven. They conveniently made suicide a “sin” that sends you to hell instead.

        • Coyotenose

           Notably, that rule made it in after suffering slave and peasant converts began killing themselves to get to the promised heaven. Turns out that death cults promote death. SURPRISE!

      • Rwlawoffice

         Christians justify protecting unborn children because we understand that these children are lives that deserve to be protected as much as those children that are outside of the womb. Unlike self professed rational liberals that make a fake distinction of when life begins so that they can make different choices. 

        • Glasofruix

          as much as those children that are outside of the womb

          Sorry, but once the kid pops out it seems to be no longer your problem wheter or how he lives, if we consider all the christian “love” you folks spread around orphans…

          • Rwlawoffice

             See my comment above. 

          • Sfindley312

            Glasofruix!! how the hell are you? Please name me an atheist organization that provides food, shelter, medicine etc. I can’t think of one. do you all have anything like UNICEF?  Doubt it.

            • Glasofruix

               Hey there mr nordog, it’s been ages since we’ve seen your stupid rhetoric around here, how are you? Back, to the business:
              Your ilk cares so much about kids that they close off orphanages or cut support when a state allows gay couples to adopt, as for a secular organisation that provides food and shelters, how about any secular government out there (well, except North Korea and maybe China)?

              • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

                He’s not Nordog.  Different sides of the country.

                (and I wouldn’t call NK secular, not when their leader is a dead guy)

                • Glasofruix

                  What, we have TWO Steven Finleys?

                • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

                  Nordog is from the west coast, ex-agnostic Catholic due to some life experience. I haven’t seen him around for a while, but then I was away for a while myself.

                • http://www.flickr.com/groups/invisiblepinkunicorn Anna

                  IIRC, Nordog woke up one morning and was suddenly a Christian. No explanation, as far as I can recall.

                • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

                  No, there was more to it than that.  We’ve chatted briefly offline.  I don’t know details, and I wouldn’t share without his permission of course even if I did, but something happened that he considers to be a miracle.

                • http://www.flickr.com/groups/invisiblepinkunicorn Anna

                  Interesting. I seem to recall discussing it with him once, and he said he went to sleep agnostic and woke up Christian, but I can’t remember if there was a dream or some kind of event connected to it. If he pops back in, I’ll ask him.

              • Stev84

                NK is extremely religious. It’s the most perverse cult of personality imaginable. There are shrines and temples to the leaders all over.

            • Coyotenose

              Goodwill.

              Red Cross.

              Doctors Without Borders.

              All secular.

              Oh, so is UNICEF. Jesus you’re stupid.

        • Octoberfurst

          Yes your side  “cares” so much about children in the womb. But it is also the conservative Christians who want to do away with the safety net that helps kids once they are born. “WIC program? Who needs it? Let the mothers buy their own formula!  Help with daycare? No way! Not with MY money!” Yeah to your side life is just sooooo precious as long as it is in the womb but once the kid is born it’s “You’re on your own kid!”

          • Rwlawoffice

              Of course we Christians don’t do anything for children after they are born.  That is why there are no Christian based non profits that
            provide food, day care, medical care and shelter to children living in
            poverty.  That is why there are no christian orphanages for those without parents.  That is why there are no churches giving support to food banks or homeless shelters or single mothers.

            • JenL

              They don’t do enough – homeless shelters don’t give you a steady home for your kids, or provide health care for them. 

              And then conservative politicians say that the fact there are foodbanks and homeless shelters is proof that the moms don’t need food assistance, cash assistance, housing assistance, or healthcare. 

              And a certain kind of religious conservative person argues that if only government would get out of the way, churches would step up – but never seem to address the fact that churches weren’t getting the job done in the first place, leading to the need for government assistance. 

              • Rwlawoffice

                 I have no problem with governmental assistance for those truly in need.  However, if you were objective about it, since we began this war on poverty there are more people on these programs then ever before. The create dependance.  What these people need are jobs and the ability to help themselves.  I am all for permanent solutions to poverty, not simply government handouts that for some become a way of life.

                • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QIOCTUX55ZX6IP6OYWJGP4IAYI Ruth

                  Show me the evidence that dependence is created.  Especially as AFDC was eliminated and there is no federal cash assistance or medicaid unless you are disabled, elderly, or have young children.  And, most states don’t have cash assistance either.   

                • fin312

                  Do your research Ruth you are wrong.

                • fin312

                  Very well said counselor. F…em if they don’t understand that.

            • Hypnerotomachia

               … So many, in fact, that Texas discovered itself facing hundreds of millions of dollars in Medicaid payments it’d have to make to deal with all the unwanted babies now projected to be born due to its anti-choice, anti-contraception policies. If there was so much help available for women, then why on earth do most of them cite financial/support issues as the primary reason they wish to terminate their pregnancies? Are they all just so stupid they don’t realize there’s this huge flood of “help” available to them? Or are you so deluded that you don’t realize that no, there isn’t anywhere near enough help for all the “unborn babies” you want born?

              Live in reality. It’s a lot more logical and rational.

            • Octoberfurst

              But you don’t do nearly enough. Most churches are too busy just trying to keep their churches running much less feed the hungry, clothe the naked, etc.  There is a HUGE need out there and you are only helping with a small part of it. When your side does it all I will say that the government has no part in aiding the poor.  Besides you guys have billions you could give. Why not do it?

              • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

                Any individual in the USA who isn’t living in abject poverty could do more.  If memory serves, RW (and his church) do put their time and money where their mouths are.

                I just get tired of that line when it’s aimed at me.

                • Coyotenose

                   Don’t give him too much credit. He’s crowed about converting orphans in Uganda, which means he’s helped create THAT environment, as well as helped spread AIDS in Africa and helped pay for the RCC to hide pedophile priests.

                  If he was a decent person, he could say, “I wasn’t aware of that until recently. Now I am, and it’s filthy, but the alternative is even worse and I don’t know of a third option,” but he can’t, because his ilk aren’t capable of being mistaken. It’s always Someone Else’s Fault.

                • Rwlawoffice

                   You truly are an idiot.  Do you honestly think that this comment makes any sense?

                  Not only that you are wrong factually. You consistently try to invoke a response by claiming that I am am homophobe because I support an orphanage in Uganda and the Ugandan government has strict laws on homosexual behavior in an effort to control their aids epidemic.   I say it again, you truly are an idiot.

                • Troels Jakobsen

                  Let me get this straight. Are you defending the Ugandan laws which proscribe death penalty or a lifetime in prison to gays or people protecting gays, in the name of “controlling their AIDS epidemic”?

                • Rwlawoffice

                  Nope. I never defended the Ugandan law.

                • Brian Scott

                  “Ugandan government has strict laws on homosexual behavior in an effort to control their aids epidemic”

                  When the vast majority of their cases are heterosexuals.

                  No, the Ugandan government has instigated a moral crusade against gay people for religious reasons and is using that outrage to wage war on them. To actually pretend for one minute that this has any legitimate societal reason is to have your hand in their mistreatment.

                  I take back what I said earlier about you being mistreated here. You really are a death speaker, a provocateur and a deceiver and frankly deserve the abuse you’ve received. You have squandered your good will here.

                • Rwlawoffice

                  I’m not defending their law. Read my comment. I was responding to an idiotic connection that because we care for orphans in Uganda we must endorse killing homosexuals. Nothing could be further from the truth but Coyote boy keeps bringing it up like he thinks it is a great dig.

                  I understand Uganda has a terrible Aids problem. It is in the heterosexual and homosexual communities. Most of the orphans in Uganda are because of Aids. It has spread through the country mostly through promiscuity and lack of health care .

                • Coyotenose

                  You just lied about what I said, Loser. Thanks for proving my point.

                • Stev84

                  You are beyond evil. Go fuck yourself you vile sack of shit

                • Coyotenose

                   Now you’re making false excuses to defend people who want to murder homosexuals for how they were born.

                  Enjoy your time in Hell, Bigot.

              • fin312

                That’s bullshit, go by one of those churches and see they do not turn anyone away.

            • Coyotenose

               Listen to him guys, he knows all about converting young orphans into murderous homophobes. He’s said so, and I believe him when he says that he promotes teaching children to murder people for how they are born.

            • Patterrssonn

              Not to mention the fierce lobbying by anti abortion christians for the increases in welfare rates and minimum wages needed to eliminate child poverty. And lets not forget all the lobbying by “pro life” groups for improved access to free medical care for poor families.

              And wasn’t it great when the movement woke up and realized the absurdity of calling yourself “pro life” and not campaigning against gun control or the death penalty? Man were they embarrassed.

          • Sfindley312

            Ah!! another believer in entitlements!!

            • Octoberfurst

              Yeah I do believe in “entitlements” or, as I like to call it, common decency.  Apparently you think that people needing help are just leeches huh?

              • fin312

                Quite frankly most are Octoberf…k, you see i just got off an in your eyes an entitlement program. I used it properly, and bought good healthy food. I’ll give you an example of the system being abused. I was in line at the market one day. The woman in front of me 450lbs at least with 3 very obese children no more than 10yrs old had 3 carriages full of junk not one healthy item. Cases of soda, chips , cupcakes. Not one box of cereal or package of meat, bread,fruit etc. etc. You get it Octoberf…k. the so called entitlement system is severely abused. Fix it so the upc codes (you know what that is don’t you?) can only pass healthy items and say 30oz. of junk,then you can have that last statement. 23% of my states budget is for your so called entitlements. And if you don’t think the system is loaded with lifers on these “entitlement programs” then you are a complete freekin moron. You know the people with 5 kids from 3 different dads. in every state the system is loaded with those types of people. It was meant to help short term not long term. that is not common decency you a….hole.

                • Octoberfurst

                  Oh so now I am “Octoberf–k”? Stay classy Finny. So you decided to use the old anecdotal story routine eh? I’ve heard crap like this 1,000 times before from your kind. “I seen this negro lady inna store the udder day & she was buying steak & lobster wif her welfare card an she had expensive rings on her fingers an about a duzin kids! She waz braggin dat the more kids she haz the more money she gits! She’s jus cheatin’ the system like all them darkies!”
                  You’re basically clueless and just pull “facts” out of your ass so go peddle your bullshit elsewhere. You’d feel right at home at Worldnetdaily. Jerk!

            • Patterrssonn

              We’re all believers in entitlements you sad freak, except some of us don’t believe that entitlements should only go to the rich.

            • Pawel Samson

              Yeah, those damn freeloaders are always expecting government services that their tax money paid for.  Geez, every good decent theist knows we should be paying for endless war, corporate welfare, and Christian indoctrination instead.

              • fin312

                Read the above post a…hole. I’ll be willing to bet those in need people you speak of,most have never worked and just keep spitting out kids.

            • Baal

               Hrm, giving food to the hungry…who could have said that….

        • Isilzha

           Of course, once those children are grown women you don’t think their lives matter any longer.  A grown woman is nothing but a womb and incubator.

        • cipher

          That doesn’t begin to address my statement.

          We Jews* have a word in Yiddish for someone like you, Robert. Have you ever heard of the word “drek”?

          (Yes, that’s right, Robert. I’m a perfidious Jew. My great-grandparents killed your lord. Mwa ha ha.)

          • Coyotenose

            He got better!

            /cockneyaccent

            • cipher

              ;-)

          • Rwlawoffice

             My Lord was a Jew as well.  I have nothing but love for the Jewish people. You as well, even though you have shown yourself to be  drek.

            • cipher

              Uh huh. Meanwhile, I’m not the one who believes human beings are born inherently deserving eternal damnation.

          • fin312

            They killed the wrong person.

            • cipher

              Rushing to get all of your trolling in by the weekend?

        • Witchgawd

          Riiight. Christians care so much for life…while it’s in the womb. After it’s born, not so much. Ignorant and delusional are no way to go through life.

          • Rwlawoffice

             Then I would suggest you stop going through life that way. Get away from the propaganda of the pro abortion crowd and see what pro life people really do for the children that are saved from abortion.

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QIOCTUX55ZX6IP6OYWJGP4IAYI Ruth

          Your god apparently disagrees, given how many spontaneous abortions there are. 

  • cipher

    This is who they are, Hemant. As I told you last year, I’ve noticed you becoming edgier both with and about them, and I’ve lauded you for it. Being “Friendly” (to the conservatives) accomplishes nothing. They will not change, and you’ll never be able to communicate with them. You’re speaking different languages.

    Breed them out of the genome, people. It’s our only hope for humanity’s survival.

  • Matthewd80

    I say we blow-up his message inbox and let him know what an ignorant ass he is.

    • nakedanthropologist

      I’m game.  Let’s get 4chan on this and bring the tide of digital destruction to John Motherfucking Rennard – because I need an outlet from grief and tragedy, and this porcine prick deserves to have his clock cleaned.

      • Antinomian

        The b/tards aren’t what they once were. They’ll only say “not your personal army newfag”.

    • Cortex_Returns

      It’s just facebook….

  • cipher

    Of course, if the parents, having long since passed the “age of accountability”, die without accepting Jesus as their saviors…

    Well, I hope the kids can enjoy their eternal play date with Jesus, knowing their parents are being tormented horribly – but I guess God will have explained to them that it’s their parents own damn fault, eh?

    I’m running out of ways to express my loathing of and contempt for evangelicals.

    • Scott

      I’ve seen that. FB post saying that of course the kids are with Jesus, and now we have to hope the parents convert and “find salvation so they can be reunited.” Just ghoulish.

      • cipher

        They are the worst people in the world.

  • Zach Johnson

    A good friend of mine did something similar – she posted a picture of a Jesus figure holding a little girl and wrote “At least 20 special little ones got a very special hug today!”
    With the exclamation point at the end and everything. I can’t believe anybody would actually make such a grotesque assertion. I know she means well but that’s just about the most disturbing goddam response to something tragic I’ve ever seen. I very tamely told her how effed up that was and she didn’t even respond, just quietly removed my comment. She’s studying to be a teacher… I just don’t get it.

    • Pawel Samson

      This is why I’m no longer on facebook or twitter.  I rather not know anything about the deranged beliefs of my friends or family, and I wouldn’t have enough patience to tamely shoot them down like you did.

  • cipher

    One more thing – perusing the comments, I notice those defending him do so by saying, “He’s just stating a fact.” We hear this sort of thing all the time from that quarter.

    Conservative Christians really don’t understand the meaning of the word “fact” – and there appears to be no way of explaining it to them.

  • Fargofan

    I have 2 questions about this sick mentality: 1. Christians believe God is omnipresent (everywhere). So that means He is as close to the people when they’re alive on earth as when they’re in heaven. Besides implying that God is a monster, the belief that the deceased are now closer to God is nonsensical by their own standards. 2. The Bible says to God, a thousand years is like a day and vice versa. They also think people are in heaven forever. Do they really think God is that impatient? Isn’t a long earthly lifetime like a snap of the fingers to their God? Couldn’t He wait for them to enjoy a long life with their loved ones, before supposedly taking them to heaven? It’s not just wrong and offensive, but idiotic.

  • Rwlawoffice

    As an atheist you could only view this as insensitive because you don’t believe in an afterlife in Heaven.  For those of us that do believe that children go to heaven, this comment is an expression of that belief and the hope we have through Jesus Christ. But through your atheists blinders you fail to understand that  Christians in a time of tragedy like like this understand as much as you do the loss these families are experiencing and don’t diminish the sorrow they feel by losing these children. They however have a belief that they will see them again one day. You don’t have to believe that and I know you don’t don’t but to label those that do insensitive is ridiculous.    

    • Matthewd80

      And, of course, don’t mess with the supreme ideology of Christianity. How about: 20 children got the best gift ever today, they’re going to hang with Allah! The narrow-mindedness of Christianity is what is so appalling and disgusting. How can you sit there and make an assumption that all those children were Christian. What if some were from Hindu or Buddhist families? Muslim, Zoroastrian?

      • Glasofruix

        Isn’t it obvious? They’re all going to hell…

        #christianlogic

      • Sfindley312

        Well then they hang with that “God” you  you moron!

        • Coyotenose

           They’re the same god.

          Again: Jesus you’re stupid.

        • Pawel Samson

          So now there are multiple gods that you can pick and choose from?  Awesome, I’ll take Itzamna, the badass Mayan bird-god.  He’s going to pwn your god when we’re both up in heaven.

          • drakvl

             I saw a wonderful quote on that topic in a forum sig: “If you take the Christian God literally, he doesn’t say he’s the only God. He just wants to make sure he gets top billing.”

    • Rory

       None of which makes what that asshat said less potentially hurtful to a parent who hears it. Maybe some of them feel exactly as John Rennard does, but some of them would probably much rather have their little ones home safe even if that does mean postponing the play date with Jesus.

      So maybe the sentiment is reasonable for a believer, but the expression was poor.

      • Rwlawoffice

         Of course they would rather have their children here as we all would.  At times like these Christians mourn just like everyone else but they do so with the belief that children go to heaven and are loved by our savior. Parents, even if they belief it, would of course rather have their children here, but as a father myself, believing that when I lose a child I will see them again gives me strength in a time of sorrow.  It may or may not provide much comfort immediately after this tragedy but over time it does.

        I once went to a funeral of a child who died of cancer at the age of five.  He was a beautiful young boy who was taken way to soon.  His family expressed simultaneously their sorrow at their loss as well as their  joy in their belief that he was now in heaven with Christ. It clearly gave them peace in a time of immense sorrow.

        • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

          So when WBC shows up and proclaims the killer as a hero, you’ll be agreeing with them?

          C’mon, even if you think they’re all in heaven, proclaiming this as a ‘gift’ is a pretty hurtful thing to do to the parents.

          • Rwlawoffice

             Of course I would not agree with that by the WBC.

            • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

              There’s a far cry from the comfort of believing your child is in heaven, and the suggestion that going to heaven early and missing a lifetime on earth is any kind of gift.  I don’t agree, but I can wrap my head around a loved one being in heaven.  But to say that the killer gave them a gift? I’m at a total loss as to how anyone can defend that.  It wouldn’t be the first time though.

            • Coyotenose

               Notice how specific he is about which positions he does and does not deny. What vile thinking. So much for Catholic morality.

        • JohnnieCanuck

          So in your version of the Bible does it say that good people go to Heaven as soon as they die? I thought the Bible said everyone was waiting in their graves for Judgement Day to find out where they would be for eternity.

          Sure hope no-one is getting impatient or stressed out. They’ve been lying there for a thousand years or more, some of them.

        • Rory

          None of what you said actually addresses my comment,which is that even though some of the parents may agree with the sentiments Rennard expressed, his statement is incredibly callous and has a high potential to offend. That’ what I object to. I also happen to think it’s a misguided and lousy sentiment.

    • DougI

       I can’t imagine you have children if you are so eager to see them die.  If you truly believe what you say then you should go on a killing spree and send children thousands of “gifts”.  You do make a case for prohibiting fundamentalists from having guns, since you clearly advocate murder.

      • Rwlawoffice

         You are truly an idiot.

        • DougI

           Be sure to give yourself a gift.

        • Stev84

          You’re projecting again

        • Brian Scott

          No, I have to spurn you on this as well. Despite the fact that I think you are railed on here too hard at times, this is not one of them. The way that is phrased – kill a child, they receive gifts – is an expression against life. Even “at least they’re in a better place” would have been more appropriate, if overly cliche.

          The implications of the statement that when a child dies, they’re truly at their happiest, is something that frightens me immensely.

          Offer your condolences and support and carry on.

          • Coyotenose

             I have to think that you aren’t aware that he has a long history of playing petty, deceitful word games to “win” here. He got called out on it many times, until he couldn’t take any more and vanished for a while. It’s a typical troll “reset switch” to try to make people forget their deeds so they can start over.

            • Rwlawoffice

               You give yourself way to much credit for your past arguments with me.  I assure you nothing about them made me leave here for a while.

              • Coyotenose

                 Thanks for admitting that you have so little trouble with lying that being rebuked for it doesn’t make you want to pause and rethink your actions.

                By the way, I wasn’t the only one doing it. You’re projecting your own self-importance.

        • Coyotenose

           And yet, magically, you can’t refute him.

          Maybe if you spent less brainpower working on ways to encourage murdering homosexuals, you could come up with something.

        • Patterrssonn

          What? you wouldn’t want your kids to have the “best Christmas present ever”? What kind of parent are you?

    • Graham Martin-Royle

      Try reading the comment from Angelia Phillips above.

      • Rwlawoffice

         I sympathize with her loss (if you are reading this Angelia, I truly do) and I don’t in anyway diminish her feelings.  I do understand however that people react differently in times like these.  I have witnessed others who at the same time they are suffering extreme grief, they are comforted with their Christian faith.

    • nakedanthropologist

      No.  Just no.  Even when I was a believer, I found this sentiment completely insensitive and often cruel.  It’s judgemental and implies that we should grieve less.  There are twenty-eight families today who have lost loved ones in a most brutal and traumatizing fashion.  Telling them that their kids/relatives/friends are “in a better place” does nothing – it’s a cliche, and in particular bad taste at this time.  I can appreciate Christian optimism (my parents are that way) but this is just wrong.  And shame on you Rw, for playing the “you’re an atheist so you don’t understand” card.  I understand just fine, and the “they’re getting hugs from Jesus” bullshit diminishes everything the victims and their families are going through at this time as well as being extremely disrespectful.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Christopher-Buchholz/1203282337 Christopher Buchholz

      No, the first line “BEST CHRISTMAS PRESENT EVER” certainly has nothing to do with faith or even good manners. If he wrote “I am consoled by the fact these children are in a better place” and left it at that, then THAT would be what you are talking about.

      But even then, it is a gross violation of manners to say something like that to a grieving parent or other survivor. He put it on the internet, so it’s still a grey area of whether this is rude or not.

      But for argument’s sake let’s pretend he said it directly to a parent of one of the dead children: No one that’s lost a loved one wants to hear that, even evangelicals and the most faith based people. Grief counselors and others that go to talk to you at work when a coworker has lost someone will tell you “do not pretend you know what happens, that God has a plan, or explain it away. It comes off as pretentious, rude, and insulting and hurts the person even more”

      Finally, as you point out: he is not trying to make the survivors feel better, he is not trying to make the world better, he wrote that because he is trying to make HIMSELF feel better. If he wants to think that in private then fine, but he is saying it to others and hurting others so that he can feel better. That is wrong.

    • Cortex_Returns

      And we all understand that Christians don’t believe they’re being insensitive when they publicly indulge in their heaven-fantasy. But it IS insensitive because they are assuming that everyone around them holds the same belief. 

      As an atheist who’s been at too many funerals, I can tell you it is incredibly isolating to have to be around people who tell you over and over again about how wonderful your dead loved one feels now that they are dead. On top of all the feelings that come with the loss, it makes us feel horribly alone and adds the burden of knowing that if we express how we really feel, it will be seen as rude or disrespectful in even worse ways.

      Please understand that what is comforting to you may be abhorrent to some other people around you. It’s bad enough we have to endure the religious talk at the funerals, where it often does belong if it’s in a house of worship. In public, please be aware of your Christian privilege. 

    • Coyotenose

       I’m sorry that you’re too dim to grasp that he was saying it was GOOD that children were murdered and being callous* towards those who survive them.

      *Another word for “insensitive”.

    • Patterrssonn

      How do you know they’re not in hell?

  • http://www.facebook.com/Dharmaworks David Benjamin Patton

    I don’t really have anything new to add here. Hemant pretty much nailed it. I did a screen capture to post on my FB though if that;s OK, Hemant.

  • Guest

    Almost as bad as atheists scouring the internet to find something they can use to exploit the deaths of innocents in order to ramrod their atheism through the tragedy at the expense of careless believers.  Almost as bad.  But only almost.   The sad thing?  I knew this is what you would find on atheists blogs today.  Not a chance to sit back and let people work things out  their own way and put aside differences.  But when you’re an atheist, you have nothing positive to give, you can only be against.  So it’s to be expected.  After all, what can an atheist say to bring comfort?  Not much.  Not unless they ignore the logical ramifications of their atheism.  

    • Rory

       Oh, do fuck off. Hemant called out a believer who said something callous. I haven’t seen any atheists posting screeds directed at the parents who rely on religion for comfort in their grief. When I do see that, I’ll call it out. Until then spare us the false equivalence.

      • Guest

        Who the hell are you to call anyone out?  If there is a problem, why don’t you wait for the families of the victims to say it is a problem, if you’re so worried about that.  If they say it’s a problem, then by all means.  But since that’s the issue here, why not wait.  Or let’s face it, you don’t really care do you.  It’s just a chance to exploit a tragedy to ramrod your beliefs.  Sad.  Pathetic and sad. 

        • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

          You know, you’re calling us out, because you think there’s a problem.  Did you ask the families first?  See how that works?  We all have the right to call out something we think needs calling out.  But your calling out is a meta-level of ridiculous.

          • Guest

            I’m merely reacting.  Shut up, and it goes away and we can focus on the victims and their families. 

            • Thackerie

               So, shut up. Go away. And focus on the victims and their families.

              Or, are you just another hateful religious hypocrite?

            • Patterrssonn

              “I’m merely reacting.” Just let it slide man, just let it slide.

              • Coyotenose

                 osnap

            • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QIOCTUX55ZX6IP6OYWJGP4IAYI Ruth

              Oh come on.  You don’t know the families.  Are you spending your day feeling sad for the families ?  No, you are coming here and jabbing at the atheists.  

        • Octoberfurst

          Talk about “exploiting tragedies to ramrod your beliefs”–what do you think about Huckabee and Fischer saying that this tragedy happened because the kids in school didn’t pray?

          • Guest

            Who said I liked them getting in their jabs either?  One of the biggest problems in our culture is that we are a nation of pundits, not principles.  Something like this happens, and the first thing people do is rush out to find a way to use it to advance their particular agendas or beliefs.  Sure, we all have ideas as to why things like this happen.  But while the bodies of children are laying in the school, couldn’t we back off for a day or two and just mourn with the victims?  Is that really THAT hard to do?  Judging from things, it appears it is that hard to do. 

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Christopher-Buchholz/1203282337 Christopher Buchholz

          Maybe you should look up “how to console grieving loved ones”. What this guy wrote is rude. It is one thing to tell yourself this in private, another thing to spout it out loud and hurt others.

          Here is a good guide for you

          http://dying.about.com/od/thegrievingprocess/f/What-Do-I-Say-To-A-Grieving-Parent.htm

          • Guest

            I didn’t say what he said was anything.  But instead of commenting, just let it slide, unless one of the victims was bothered, then address it accordingly.  I’ve seen people on all sides jumping into the ring on this – as is usual anymore.  Just enough education to make our arguments sound good, but not enough to know how to behave well.  For a believer, however, it may be comforting.  Truth be  told.  A believer could find comfort in something like that, strange as it seems, and it isn’t for us to rush to exploit.  Lashing out in frustration?  Sure.  But not this.  Leave it drop.  Too many atheist sites I’ve seen rushed out to say ‘how can we find something religious people have said and then pounce.’  Which is far worse in this situation than saying something careless out of shock or anger in the first place.’

            • Coyotenose

               “Too many atheist sites I’ve seen rushed out to say ‘how can we find something religious people have said and then pounce.’”

              You say while doing that very thing. You’re a dimwitted, hypocritical ghoul desperate to be offended to justify your hate. Google “projection” and then go look in a mirror.

            • Patterrssonn

              So that’s the message of all your ranting and whining, “just let it slide”.

        • Isilzha

          Well, we are all members of society and have a stake in events even if they didn’t affect us directly.  However, those events DO affect everyone as we all have a stake in laws and public safety.

          What that vile xian said is just reprehensible and a great example of just how dangerous religion is.

        • Michaelbrice

          ‘Guest’ ? Doesn’t that mean you were invited? O.K., who was it? It’s time to send the ‘guest’ home now, he has drunk too much of the kool-aid punch.

        • Patterrssonn

          Why are you christians so angry all the time? Is it our fault when you do something depraved and idiotic? Don’t shoot the messenger man.

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QIOCTUX55ZX6IP6OYWJGP4IAYI Ruth

          You do not have to be family to say this is a problem!  And who was the ramrod.  The atheists didn’t say anything until after the disgusting statements by Christian jerks. 

    • DougI

       Yeah, shame on those Atheists for forcing the Christian to say something awful on his FB.  It’s clearly all our fault.

      • Guest

        Yes it is, unless you can point to any of the families of the victims who wanted you to.  When they do, by all means.  Otherwise – exploitation. 

        • DougI

           He’s not being exploited when he posts his messages on FB for the entire world to see, but whatever helps you sleep at night.

          • Guest

            He isn’t.  The tragedy is. 

            • RobMcCune

              By christians Eric Hovind, Bryan Fischer, Mike Huckabee, and you.

        • Drakk

          And how do you know that any of those families wanted christard bullshit being spewed over their kids’ murders?

          • fin312

            And how do you know they didn’t?

        • Patterrssonn

          I think that your problem is that assholish exploitation of tragedies by Christians is so commonplace that you fail to see how depraved it is.

    • Cortex_Returns

      And here we have the essential laziness of the believer. Comfort is what’s important, not truth or thoughtful analysis. Not facing the real situation and all the real feelings it evokes with dignity and maturity. Just find some way to make everyone feel okay about something that’s unacceptable. 

      And it’s NOT okay. This is the worst thing that could have ever happened to these families, and when you try to deny that truth and downplay the enormity of their suffering with your transparently idiotic fantasies about Jesus hugs and streets of gold and no-more-tears, you commit the ultimate act of disrespect.

      Fuck you and your stupid comfort.

      • Guest

        I missed where any of the victims’ families asked anyone to call anything out at this time.  If they do, then by all means.  Otherwise, admit it was just a cheap exploitation of a tragedy, which is all atheism can do since it has nothing positive to offer.  What truth do you mean?  That humans are animals who die and rot in the earth?  That a hundred years the world will forget and nobody will care?  No wonder exploitation is all you can accomplish. 

        • Cortex_Returns

          Oh geez. This Christian isn’t exploiting the tragedy to promote his beliefs? This blog post is a response to a response. Calling it exploitation is pretty ridiculous, especially considering the way that other Christians in the mass media are using the shooting to plug school prayer.

          The victims’ families haven’t asked people to celebrate that their kids are partying round the clock with Jesus, either. And it’s pretty ridiculous to ask them to administrate over the Internet, anyway.

          • Guest

            This Christian is saying something a Christian may believe  and some may actually find comfort in.  At this point, prudence suggests shutting the hell up and letting folks work things out for a couple days, focusing on the victims and their families.  It’s one thing to say something that may even appear stupid in an effort to comfort.  It’s another thing to sit in the stands and pounce on it.  It accomplishes nothing and is far less emotionally connected to the event. 

            • Cortex_Returns

              See my reply to RW below. Atheists are grieving and upset now, too, and garbage status updates like this one make it worse for many of us. Responding in this way in an atheist-friendly environment helps us to deal with death in OUR way. 

            • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QIOCTUX55ZX6IP6OYWJGP4IAYI Ruth

              You have no idea how that minimizes how we feel.  And how horrific it could make a family member of these children feel.    

        • Octoberfurst

          So your answer is to tell people fairy tales to make them feel better? “Little Joey now has his angel wings and is flying over rainbows with Jesus!”   Uh-huh.
            What we offer people is a shoulder to cry on and  good memories to cling to. It’s a lot more real than pie-in-the-sky fantasies.

          • Rwlawoffice

             What an assumption you make that Christians do not offer a shoulder to cry on and cherish good memories when there is a loss.  What we believe about Heaven gives us added comfort, it is not a replacement for comfort and help here and now.

            • Baal

              You are willfully blind.  The ‘yeah heaven’ don’t provide added comfort and caused at least one women who posted here to have a public breakdown.  It’s a shitty thing to say to a grieving person.  How many tens (hundreds by now?) of comments do you need to convince you that your comments are hurtful?

          • Guest

            And your assumption that Christians don’t offer a shoulder to cry on is based on what?  The usual modern atheist understanding of religious thought and practice?  I hope not. But apparently, probably so.  

            • Octoberfurst

              It was the comment that we atheists have nothing to offer those who are grieving. That is why I said we offer a shoulder to cry on, etc.  I never said your side didn’t. (Reading comprehension is not a strong point in you is it?)

          • fin312

            I’m sure that’s just what they want at that time memories. F…king idiot.

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QIOCTUX55ZX6IP6OYWJGP4IAYI Ruth

          Atheists who are scientists, skeptics and critical thinkers look for answers based on proven methods.  That is something positive to offer.  Atheists that are Humanists offer caring and compassion in the world today, not based on some superstition about what happens after you die.    Some religious people also have things to offer that is much the same.  However, religious people like Huckabee who exploit tragedy to try to force their iron age beliefs on others have nothing to offer.  They are stuck in a world of superstitious nonsense and tribalism. 

          • fin312

            If there are who are scientists, they sure aren’t of the rocket variety.

    • Sfindley312

      Ditto!!

    • Coyotenose

      Your argument, restated:

      “It’s not fair for the police to arrest a kidnapper and take him into custody! That’s kidnapping!”

      You’re pathetically dimwitted in your desperation.

    • Patterrssonn

      What’s worse is when people are hit by tragedies like natural disasters or shootings and atheists claim that the brought this on themselves because of their “sins”. How much more depraved and exploitative can you get, those atheists have no shame.

  • Slim

    I don’t want to live in this country anymore.

    That’s not a joke.

    • AlaJackd

      May I assist you in packing?

      • Isilzha

        Hey, asshole, jeebus is waiting to give you a big old hug!  Why don’t you go meet him now.

        • Sfindley312

          And we’re bigots?

          • Isilzha

            Well, if he thinks other people should be happy and eager to meet jeebus then why isn’t he the first in line? 

          • RobMcCune

            Maybe if you weren’t so bigoted fewer people would call you one. Try it sometime.

          • Coyotenose

             Yes.

            You’re also too stupid to know what the word means, judging from that particular whine.

          • Patterrssonn

            Yes

          • nakedanthropologist

            If the shoe fits.

        • AlaJackd

          Haha.. You need help packing as well, eh?

          You have us confused with Muslims who actually DO command it’s followers to an early death in the name of allah if required. It doesn’t please our God to see us die early, horrific deaths. All things are made in God, and all things die… From dust to dust… However, Christians are not commanded or required to meet God any earlier than God NATURALLY intended for us to do so. Our God takes pleasure in seeing His creation live long and fruitful lives, to multiply, to enjoy God’s wondrous and endless Earthly bounty’s, and to experience God’s love and presence even HERE in our earthly lives. He takes no satisfaction in seeing us be violent toward one another.

          • Isilzha

            Your god is a nasty, vile, horrible creature and I don’t understand how any sane person could worship such a thing.

            If you agree with Rannard’s FB posting then why are you still here?  Seems you think it’s just dandy for OTHER peopel to be meeting jeebus, but you’re reluctant to meet him yourself.  Why is that?

            • AlaJackd

              Would you had rather God have never created you in the first place so as to spare you from the vicious and evil witness of the evil? Your answer may be yes, to a lot of atheists it is who can’t face the reality of evil in the absence of God.

              • Isilzha

                LOL, no god created me.  What a silly notion!  Go take a bio class and learn about evolution. 

                There is no god, but the xian concpet of god is vile, nasty, horrible, evil and immoral!

                • RobMcCune

                  Wait, your not wallowing in nihilistic despair? What will AlaJackOff to now?

                  Oh well I’m sure he’ll be ok, it’s not like reality is his strong suit.

                • Coyotenose

                   Apparently wanking off is not his strong suit either, since he seems to have been trying all day so far. Probably not enough murdered children on the news for his “tastes”.

              • Witchgawd

                Just do everyone a favor and go meet your maker you walking piece of excrement.

          • Patterrssonn

            “He takes no satisfaction in seeing us be violent toward one another”

            He’s lucky he has you to speak for him AlaJacd, as he’s incapable of speaking for himself. Not only is your god now crippled and indecisive, but also a mute.

    • Sfindley312

      Pack your bags then and go to another country where you have chidren and a parliment is waiting to tell you what that child is going to be when they grow up and see what happens when you don’t follow their religion. Try Atheism in a 3rd world country and see what happens!

      • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

        The only country less religious than the US that I would consider ’3rd world’ is Cuba.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Importance_of_religion_by_country

        There are 40+ other choices.  However, if you want to go to countries that are MORE religious than the US, then you have plenty of ’3rd world’ to choose from.  Funny that.

      • Coyotenose

         Most secular nations are way ahead of the U.S. in every social aspect.

        Again: Jesus you’re stupid.

        • fin312

          Yes I am cottonose, but go to one and see if you can push your atheist agenda.

      • Patterrssonn

        You mean like Europe or Canada?

        • The Great White North

          So you know compared to you Americans we here in Canada want very little to do with religion. It’s all BS. Sure you are free to follow it but keep it to your self and out of politics.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QIOCTUX55ZX6IP6OYWJGP4IAYI Ruth

      I have long felt the same.  I would move to Canada if they would let me but they won’t.  Too old, too unhealthy.  Not rich enough.   So, I am stuck here in god god land.

  • nakedanthropologist

    This is so obscene, its hard to find the right words to describe how vile, disrespectful, and contemptuous this “Tom” is.  And the people who “liked” it!  You’re all disgusting motherfuckers!  Goddamnit – I am so sick of this shit!  Something horrific happens, and Hovind/Fischer/Huckabee/Countless Unamed Assholes chortle as they lean back in their seats, their own children safe at home, about how “God would have stopped it if you prayed more” – FUCK YOU.  God doesn’t stop tragedies – people do, by trying to understand why and how they happen, and how we can better prevent these types of atrocities in the future. 

    • AlaJackd

       Haha… Someone have their panties in a wad this morning?

      • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

        The only way I can explain not being angered by this is that perhaps you are a sociopath.

        • AlaJackd

          I don’t get what you all are so surprised about? Did you think we Christians did NOT believe these children are in heaven? But now because someone actually SAID IT makes you angry? The only sociopaths I see here are a bunch of overly emotional angry atheists.

          • Brian Scott

            Someone said it in a way that basically said “it’s good these kids died!” That’s what we find contemptible.

            • AlaJackd

               Two verses we as Christians believe:
              I AM the resurrection and the life, saith the Lord :
              he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall heLIVE: and
              whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. St. John 11:25,
              26.

              St. Mark 10:13.

              AND they brought young children to him, that he should touch them :
              and his disciples rebuked those that brought them. But when Jesus saw
              it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not ; for of Such is the kingdom of God. Verily
              I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a
              little child, he shall not enter therein. And he took them up in his
              arms, put his hands upon them, and blessed them.
              AGAIN… Why are you surprised we think these children are in heaven?

              • RobMcCune

                Again, this guy said it was good that those children are dead, and bible garbage won’t make it ok.

              • Tinker

                 I don’t see how quoting a stilted work of fiction makes your argument valid. Please stick to fact.

              • Coyotenose

                 Do you believe in the verses about humility?

                That’s a rhetorical question. Ah crap, I’m sorry. I forgot that religionists don’t understand words very well, even though you just lied about what multiple people said* so you could avoid being wrong. A rhetorical question is a question that is asked without the expectation of a reply, because the answer is already known. A reply isn’t expected, because you’ve already admitted that you don’t believe in those verses.

                * How about that Commandment about not lying? Do you believe in that one**?

                ** That’s a rhetorical question***.

                *** Dipshit.

              • Witchgawd

                The world will be a better place when people like you leave it. F you and your imaginary PoS sky wizard.

          • Isilzha

            If you don’t see how vile it is to be happy about dead children you really have a serious problem and should seek help.

          • OregoniAn

            Only a sociopath like  YOU, “Jack-Wad” would think “Oh, now they are all happy in heaven… So it’s all good =) and of course it’s all a part of my God’s great master jerk-off plan..” 

            Insert this into your tiny, hate filled brain: 20 young “actual real life” children were murdered – in cold blood. That some stupid fuck like you would even troll a blog like this for reactions – at a time like this -  tells us all we need to know about YOU.

            Enjoy the rest of your life troll.. Too bad 20 innocent children – and six adults who did their best to defend them  – can’t.

             

          • RobertoTheChi

            You are a fucking sociopath.

      • Octoberfurst

         It looks like you had a big cup of asshole this morning. Maybe you should cut back.

      • nakedanthropologist

        Yes, my panties are twisted.  I work with children, and I was a teacher for K-12 for a few years.  The fact that you’re so jocular about such matters is an indicator of your own bad character.

      • Coyotenose

         Smug and not humble? Gosh, I hear Jesus LOVES that. You poor angry, raging soul.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001627228091 Alexander Ryan

    Which of course begs the question, why is the commenter alive?

  • C Peterson

    There are two kinds of assholes. The most obvious are people who simply take pleasure in hurting or disturbing others. They know they are assholes, and like it. The other kind is a bit more insidious. Those are the ones whose personal ethics deviate enough from societal ethics that they are disturbing even when they believe they are operating morally.

    Here we have a person who probably genuinely feels he was making a helpful, moral statement. And of course, there are still those who will see it that way. But the reality is, society is moving beyond his world view. The result is that many, many people see his comment as hurtful. And this will contribute to the societal shift towards a commonly held opinion that his world view itself is harmful. It will make more people realize the harm of Christianity, and even more broadly, any “personal deity” type of theism.

    • gabe

       It’s just selfish.  When you actually believe your stupid personal convictions are more important than someone else’s pain and grief.  You are actually saying “This will probably hurt them while they are already barely hanging on, but who cares.  I have to stick to my guns, so I’m going to pick this moment when they are at their most vulnerable to really drive it home.”

      • C Peterson

        I disagree. It is possible to be hurtful in practice without any intent. I’m sure that the vast majority of people who offer up one of these “he’s in a better place” comments to somebody who is grieving genuinely mean the best. Our goal should not be to tell them they are bad people, because they are not. Our goal should be to make them see the world in a more humanist light, allowing them to recognize for themselves why such comments are likely to be perceived as hurtful in many cases.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000070549477 Krista Yearwood

    I’ve seen more than a few go on about how god must have needed 20 new “angles”, not realizing what a horribly selfish, a-holio of a god they’re describing by that.
     Needless to say the adults don’t get wings in their fantasies.

    • drakvl

       I just realized something, reading your comment: the people saying that these children are in heaven now are forgetting that the doctrine of original sin condemns everyone born who hasn’t repented.

  • bettsoff

    Holy fuck that is some fucked up shit.

  • http://www.facebook.com/deb.fohringer Deb Fohringer

    I just returned from volunteering at a food bank that is run by a church.  Everyone there knows that I’m an atheist, and we often get into religious discussions . . . all are open to everyone’s views, believing that we should “live and let live”.  After yesterday’s tragedy, I knew we would have a lot to discuss.  I’ve been able to somewhat reconcile the horror by believing that the killer was a very mentally ill individual.  I can’t come to terms with those who have made it political . . . especially those like Mike Huckabee who believe it’s their god’s retribution for taking prayer out of school.  I asked the minister what I admit was a provocative question:  “What kind of a god would murder innocents just because we don’t allow people to openly praise him in a public school?”.  He thought about it for a minute and then told me that (his) god didn’t commit the murders, but allowed the event to happen to show his displeasure.  In other words, his god allowed those innocent children and adults to die because we didn’t kiss his ass enough.  And they wonder why I’m an atheist!

    • AlaJackd

      God doesn’t hang around if you don’t want him around. We’ve kicked him out of this country. You’ve gotten your wish, you should be happy. God grants us free will. Free to have God in our society , or free to kick him out. God was not in Sandy Hook yesterday, that was pure evil. In the absence of God is pure evil.

      • Cortex_Returns

        I have a pet dragon in my garage.

      • http://www.facebook.com/deb.fohringer Deb Fohringer

        Why is it that when good things happen, you religious folk are always happy to say it was god’s doing, but when something horrible happens it was all the fault of man?  If your god truly is omnipotent, he would see all of this coming.  Man’s so-called free will is a convenient excuse for religions to explain away tragedies.  A mentally ill HUMAN did this, and it’s up to the rest of us HUMANS to try to make sure that it doesn’t happen again.  HUMANS need to help other HUMANS, and the more we foist our hopes and fears on a myth, the less time we have to take responsibility for helping one another.

        • Stev84

           The concept of free will is nothing but mental masturbation

          • Coyotenose

             Yep, “Free Will” in the supernatural Christian sense is easy to disprove. If it existed, then mentally ill people whose actions are out of their control could simply exercise their free will and become completely healthy and in control. Victims of severe brain trauma could just choose to not be in comas or brain-dead anymore or randomly irrational, because otherwise their Free Will can’t be exercised.

            The “Free Will” myth survives because these people are too arrogant – not stupid, arrogant, because they assume that they are special and eternal – to grasp that thoughts are chemically generated, that the brain is part of a whole and intradependent biological system, and that there isn’t a magic ethereal crystal inside of people that is independent of their body yet directs it.

      • unclemike

        We’ve “kicked him out of the country?” Why do I see a church on almost every fucking corner, then? And why are they still tax-exempt?

        Or is god just pissed now that we can’t force little kids to pray when they’re supposed to be learning how to spell and add?

        • AlaJackd

          Were it not for still having some prayerful churches and Godly Christians that we DO have, the violence and downward spiral we’re going in would be much worse. It’s very clear God is removing his blessing from us. Just look at the tanking economy, rising prices, more people than ever on welfare and living in poverty, the dissolution of the family unit, violent music and video games.. As we continue to remove God, expect it to get worse, not better.

          • http://twitter.com/silo_mowbray Silo Mowbray

            Your belief in your genocidal, jealous, petty sky-fairy would be amusing if twenty-seven innocent children and adults weren’t murdered yesterday. Now it’s just sick, and your weak attempts to justify your “god” in the face of this tragedy is disgusting. You are a piece of filth.

            • Coyotenose

               This, seconded, thirded, and more by every person more moral than AlaJackd… which is to say, virtually everybody. AJ is a ghoulish Jackal for Christ.

              He is kind of amusing for his list of evils, though. Violent video games? That was disproven like twenty years ago. Even Tipper Gore shut up. Jesus you people are stupid. You’d be more credible if you were duck-walking naked in front of the White House, holding up a sign with letters made of human hair and semen that proclaimed something about how Revelation was actually foretelling the end of Seinfeld.

              • http://twitter.com/silo_mowbray Silo Mowbray

                Indeed. I am so angry at these religious fuckheads who DARE to smugly wag fingers at us while saying “I told you so” in that bullshit saccharine voice they use when they’re feeling all superior. Which is absurd because the Christians in the U.S. have demonstrated that religion doesn’t help matters, it just oppresses everyone other than the privileged group it serves. Twenty-seven people died yesterday, mostly little kids, and these filthy pieces of shit theists do everything they can to make it about THEM and their evil, juvenile fairy tales.

                Fuck them. FUCK THEM. I hope every single one of these theistic fascists dies alone and miserable by their own doing.

          • RobMcCune

            Yes, yes, all problems are magic, continue to delight in the problems of others because you imagine it proves you right.

          • The Spanish Inquisition

             There was way more religion in the middle ages and look how well that worked for them. Obviously you are a witch. Do you float?

            • Coyotenose

               Oh crap, I wasn’t expecting you to show up!

              • http://www.flickr.com/groups/invisiblepinkunicorn Anna

                No one ever does!

            • Antinomian

              Be careful, he might turn you into a newt. But you’ll probably get better.

            • Anon

              When religion reigned as both church and government it was called the Dark Ages for a reason.

          • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

            You suffer from extreme confirmation bias.  There’s countless evidence to completely refute your nonsense, but you completely ignore it and struggle to find something to back up your case, even if it means making it up.  Violent crime peaked in the early 90s in the US, and has been going down ever since.  Generally speaking, the states that fear God the most also have the most problems.

            • Acmcdon

              There’s none so Belinda’s those who will NOT see.

          • Pawel Samson

            God removed his blessing from us, so that’s why we now have video games?  Awesome deal!

            • Coyotenose

               VIOLENT ones. Double score, yaaayeah!

              • http://itsmyworldcanthasnotyours.blogspot.com/ wmdkitty

                I always knew Satan was responsible for Duke Nukem Forever…

          • Patterrssonn

            Weird how the most religious states are also the most crime ridden and economically depressed. Also it’s amazing how god is becoming positively pathetic in his impotence.

            • Rwlawoffice

              Please cite examples. The most violent areas in our country are cities such as Detroit, Washington D.C., Chicago, Baltimore, and New York. Not exactly hotbeds of religion, but they are bedrocks of liberal policies.

              • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

                He said by state, not by urbanization.  I’ll start with this one, with the proviso that I haven’t checked the the sources myself, and I suspect the IQ column.  It looks like the same data used in 2000 to show that people who voted for Bush have low IQs, and it was completely debunked.  That false data may have made it in here http://i.imgur.com/kpb5A.png

                Jerry Coyne has a better blog post about the subject
                http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2012/05/13/the-correlation-between-religiosity-and-well-being-among-u-s-states/

                And this is just a correlation, not a causation.  But what it does show is that at least praying and going to church and fearing God doesn’t seem to be enough to counter whatever is causing some states to have lower scores in a lot of societal well being measures.

                • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

                  Speaking of IQ, there is a strong negative correlation between level of education (NOT the same thing as IQ) and religiosity.  Even at the post grad level, most Americans believe in God.  But the numbers are a lot lower than HS graduates.  This one is Canadian data: 

                  The estimates suggest that, all else equal, one extra year of schooling leads to a 4 percentage-point increase in the likelihood that an individual reports having no religious affiliation at all

                  http://www.freakonomics.com/2011/04/25/does-more-education-lead-to-less-religion/

                  This following stuff doesn’t make my case as well, but in the interest of not confirming bias, I’m going to include it.

                  This one breaks things down by various religions.  I suspect the Hindu outlier is due to the number of technology related immigrants from India http://religions.pewforum.org/pdf/comparison-Educational%20Distribution%20of%20Religious%20Traditions.pdf

                  Here’s what I think is that same data in graph form.  http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2011/05/15/magazine/15-Leonhardt.html However the terms are a bit different, and they don’t account for the total numbers in each group.  That is, for every well educated Jew or Hindu , there’s a lot of less educated Baptists and Catholics.

                  Of course there’s also a strong correlation between education and income.  Big surprise there.   

                • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

                  This one’s pretty meaty.  I’d like to spend a few hours on it, but a quick scan it seems to say there is a positive correlation between religious attendance and education http://www.nber.org/papers/w8080.pdf?new_window=1  There’s a lot more to it than that, but education seems to get people in the pews.

                  I think I should at least take back “there is a strong negative correlation between level of education and religiosity” until I can dig up the actual data.  I’ve read the assertion in places that I consider trustworthy, but I’m not so sure you would :-)

                • Coyotenose

                  Anecdotally, I’ve noticed that a lot of religious people with degrees show by their thinking and competency that they’re trained more than they are educated. For example, people from Catholic school backgrounds who appear to know a lot until you dig in a little and notice that they are just reciting complex apologetics by rote, don’t really understand them, and get really upset when the flaws are pointed out to them.

                  Also: Diploma mills. I don’t know how much they skew the numbers, but I bet it’s not insignificant.

                • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

                  I disagree on diploma mills.  I don’t think that’s much of a factor, but I have nothing to back that up.

                  I think we’d get a clearer picture if one tried to get a more graduated measure of ‘religious’ to go along with education.  My own anecdote is a number of actively religious highly educated people who have disclosed in private that they’re in fact much closer to deist in actual belief, and go with a particular Christian denomination (Catholic e.g.) for family/social reasons.

              • Patterrssonn

                Lets see, the five most dangerous states: Nevada, New Mexico, Louisiana, South Carolina, Tennessee, Florida. I realize that’s six but I couldn’t help myself. Also if you interpret the reference to states, in my OP, as nations then in the west/developed nations you’d have America way out on top in terms of religiosity and violence, always a potent combination. Weird eh, you’d think the most Christian (real christian) country in the world would also be the least wracked by violent crime.

                Of course the icing on the cake has been the steady decline of crime in America concomitant with the steady decline of religiosity over the past three decades.

          • Thackerie

             “Were it not for still having some prayerful churches and Godly
            Christians that we DO have, the violence and downward spiral we’re going
            in would be much worse.”

            Then why is it that people enjoy much better lives and much less violence in all those godless European countries?

            You are aware of Europe, right? (Thought I’d better ask, because it sounds like you’re living a very insular life in that superstitious bubble of yours.)

          • Heisenberg

            I have it on good authority that God plays Black Ops 2. He really really blows. And with that 3 day respawn time…wooo boy, what commitment!

            • Coyotenose

              * Guffaws*

          • Loopy-lou_neurotic

            Did you know that there’s a positive correlation between violence and religion? Countries with higher numbers of agnostics & atheist have the lowest crime & suicide rates and the highest standards of living.. FACT …Although I’m not really sure why I’m bothering to try and explain anything to you I hope for everyone’s sake you’re a troll, you’re much too stupid to be genuine. 

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/James-Buchy/542338898 James Buchy

            Really? [time for an oldie but a goodie]
            You’re clueless, son! Completely clueless!
            You wouldn’t have a clue if somebody *faxed* it to you.
            You couldn’t catch a clue if you stripped naked and soaked your pallid hide in clue musk, then did the clue mating dance in a field full of horny clues during the height of clue mating season!

            What meaning do you expect your delusional self-important statements of unknowing, inexperienced opinion to have with us?  What fantasy do you hold that you would believe that your tiny-fisted tantrums would have more weight than that of a leprous desert rat, spinning rabidly in a circle, waiting for the bite of the snake?

            I cannot believe how incredibly stupid you are.  I mean rock-hard stupid.  Dehydrated-rock-hard stupid.  Stupid so stupid that it goes way beyond the stupid we know into a whole different dimension of stupid. You are trans-stupid stupid.  Meta-stupid.  Stupid collapsed on itself so far that even the neutrons have collapsed.  Stupid gotten so dense that no intellect can escape. Singularity stupid. Blazing hot mid-day sun on Mercury stupid.  You emit more stupid in one second than our entire galaxy emits in a year.  Quasar stupid.  Your writing has to be a troll.  Nothing in our universe can really be this stupid. Perhaps this is some primordial fragment from the original big bang of stupid.  Some pure essence of a stupid so uncontaminated by anything else as to be beyond the laws of physics that we know.  I’m sorry.  I can’t go on.  This is an epiphany of stupid for me.

            • http://itsmyworldcanthasnotyours.blogspot.com/ wmdkitty

              That was beautiful. I’m stealing it.

          • Baal

             The best countries to live in with the lowest teen pregnancy rates, highest life expectancies, fewest per capita abortions…the list goes on are the FUCKING LEAST GODFULL places on the planet.  Poverty goes away with good public assistance and something other than boarderline trivial food stamps.  The US GDP per capita is the highest the world.  We have the money to rival those countries and you xtian right wing authoritarians stop every fucking bill that would make life better for more people.  You’re entited to your delusions but the the lack of god is not why we have poor people.  It you and yours stopping the good things from happening.

          • MamaG

            Because the Dark Ages were such a wonderful time when there was no violence and people’s lives were marked by joy, compassion, love, peace, a thriving economy, people living in plenty and comfort, strong and healthy family units and everyone was farting rainbows every day.  You know, the Dark Ages?  A time when the church was in complete control of even the tiny nuances of people’s lives, church attendnce was mandatory and the god of the bible was the center of everyone’s lifes (and if he wasn’t the church hunted them down and murdered them.)  
            So, history itself shows your story to be a modern fabrication and attempt to ignore the obvious truth that a simple look would reveal.  

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002554226606 Kindra Pring Eubanks

            Explain how Japan, one of the least religious countries in existence  has almost no major crime…

          • Mr P

            AlaJackd, please stop it. I don’t think you realise how embarrassing this is for you. USA is a violent country, always has been, with or without your god. Try doing some research and look at other countries in the world that have little or no religion. Such as were I live (in Australia) were our crime in insignificant next to yours and people are generally nice and ethical and moral without a god. Just stop with your nonsense, take a step back and think before you say more stupid things. No one with half a brain believes your crap. It is embarrassing to all of us that you do not have the decency to respect other people as you would have them respect you. Please just grow up, educate yourself and then maybe we will let you hang out with the mature adults.

          • http://www.facebook.com/TheRealJeffMo Jeff Mo

            You didn’t really answer the question, though. The good unclemike pointed out some very good reasons to think you are wrong, and you completely ignored them to go on preaching. So, did God get kicked out of the country or not? If so, he’s not omnipotent, by definition. If not, then you told a falsehood. Which is it?

        • Larry in Phoenix

          “FUCKING”    does using this word give your statement more credability ?  Does every point you are trying to make only relavent when “fuck” of “fucking”  is inserted in your comment ?
           

          • Coyotenose

             Google “tone troll” to learn why you’re considered laughable.

          • unclemike

            Only when it fucking well deserves it. 

          • Baby_Raptor

            You might have an issue with what society has needlessly called “bad words,” but that’s your problem. The fact that you have a personal issue with certain words doesn’t mean other people should, or that others using them somehow makes them less intelligent, or their point less true. Stop nitpicking the words people use and attack/agree with their point.

            Also, since we’re playing the nitpick game, you don’t put spaces between the last word and the punctuation. I’ll leave your spelling errors alone.

        • fin312

          Hey Mikey, all non- theist factions are 501c3 tax exempt. “Survey says” wrong answer.

          • unclemike

            The fact that we treat theistic and non-theistic religions equally does neither dispute nor negate my point. Try again, Finny.

        • fin312

          Don’t forget Mikey, all non theist factions are 501c3 tax exempt. Survey says wrong answer.

        • stephen e hansen

          the folks who tell others that their kids are in heaven now should try living without their own kids, now ‘blessedly in heaven,’ and tell us how it feels.

      • RobMcCune

        You’ve gone from defending an awful remark about dead to reveling in vindication at their murder. Fuck off.

      • God

         Do you believe in hobgoblins, too? You do know when you die, you just die. Right. You have to know that. Believing in fairytales makes you sound delusional and I really think you should seek psychiatric counselling. Did nobody tell you that Santa isn’t real and neither is god? And you just kept on. That so sad. Its okay buddy. You will come to terms with it.

      • Coyotenose

         So your god is a petty, cruel, passive-aggressive murderer instead of an active murderer. And he’s too weak to be anywhere he isn’t specifically commanded to be. Congratulations. You must be very proud of your galactically limp-dicked psychopath sky daddy myth.

      • http://www.agnostic-library.com/ma/ PsiCop

        Actually, it’s God who’s truly evil. The rest of us are stuck in his evil creation and can only make the best of it.

        Worship this malevolent being if you want, especially if you approve of the evil he and he alone created … but moral and ethical people know better than to knuckle under to such beings.

      • Patterrssonn

        I like how your argument is bound neither by logic nor sense.

      • Witchgawd

        Oh just STFU. There are 3 possible reasons why your gawd let this happen. 1. It didn’t care enough to stop it from happening, in which case it is not worthy of worship. 2. It was not able to stop it from happening in which case it is not worthy of worship. 3. It doesn’t exist. I’m going to go with #3 since that’s the most logical and reasonable explanation. I suppose you think praying to this same gawd will help now too don’t you? Grow up.

      • http://www.facebook.com/brian.westley Brian Westley

        Hey AlaJackd , was god around in 1927?  That’s still the record for school killings – 38 children, 6 adults, and the murderer.

        • fin312

          So lets see, “god” has to stop every catastrophe. Then humans live forever and you all bitch about how much it takes to take care of them.

      • Bystander

         Please expand on what you mean by “We’ve kicked him out of this country”. I want you to justify this in the face of statistics (for instance, http://religions.pewforum.org/reports). Those statistics seem to indicate that as a country, we are a majority religious group (over 80 percent!). What is your reasoning, then, for your statement?

      • Rich Lane

        You can not say that god is omnipresent, that he is everywhere, and then claim there is a place in which he absent.  You can’t say that he is omnipotent and then say there places he can’t go.

        If you claim that there are places that have cast god out, and he stands outside that border wishing to get in, congratulations–you’ve just relegated him to the rules of a classical vampire who cannot enter a home without an invitation.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1252565577 Renee Somes

        Can you please explain to me how your God can be all powerful, all knowing and all seeing and you can still have free will? Either predestination exists as the protestants believe, and you are only saved by God’s grace and EVERYTHING is at his bidding and discretion, OR you have the right to exercise free will and grace is given by good deeds as the Catholics believe – but in that case your God isn’t all powerful and all knowing. You can’t have it BOTH ways and tell me that when something horrible happens it is mans fault due to his free will, but when something good happens it is because your God is all powerful and all knowing.

        • Baal

           “free will” always was the get out of jail free card for the xians.  Theodicy completely destroys their usual descriptions of god an amounts to little more than ‘don’t go there’.  The world can live just fine without the ‘free will’ concept.

        • fin312

          It is, guns don’t kill people. People with guns kill people.

      • KO

        Over 80% of American’s are believers of God…and yet this tragedy still occurred ….you think god has been kicked out of your country? you’re an idiot. 

      • http://www.facebook.com/TheRealJeffMo Jeff Mo

        Look, another prideful human who thinks his thoughts are actually the thoughts of God.

      • peegega

        So God is a prima donna who takes his toys and goes home whenever he doesn’t get his way. How does he ever get invited anywhere with that attitude?

      • http://brielle.sosdg.org Brielle

         No

      • Jinx

        Correct me if I am wrong, but how does your concept of collective free will allow for anybody’s free will?

        Let’s place your argument into premises:

        1. Our society has a free will.

        2. We have chosen to reject God.

        3. The absence of God is pure evil.

        4. Therefore, our society is filled with nothing but pure evil.

        Now, here’s why your argument is a steaming pile of crap:

        By overextending the already broken theological concept of “free will” to an entire society, you have just inadvertently stated that our entire culture (and everyone in it, including yourself) is cursed.

        You used the universal affirmative when talking about society’s rejection of God; you also used the word “we’ve.” Thus, you lay the blame for this horrendous tragedy squarely at the feet of every human being currently living in the United States (including yourself).

        I blame the shooter for killing those children; I am not pessimistic or dark enough to believe that an entire nation is responsible for the actions of one demented man.

        Wake up from your idiotic ideology and understand that the deaths of innocent children are not to be politicized or used for this kind of sophistry.

      • RobertoTheChi

        How the hell was god kicked out of school? People are free to pray. Your comment was absolutely asinine.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002554226606 Kindra Pring Eubanks

        Kicked him out of this county? Is that why churches are more common than Starbucks, we’ve never had an openly non-Christian President, the majority of government institutions recognize Christmas over any other holiday, and you whining cry babies basically get everything you want on demand?

        God hasn’t been kicked out. Though frankly if his selfish pride is more important than the lives of children, he should be. You do realize your comment makes your god look like an egotistical, selfish, despicable monster right?

      • WoodyTanaka

        I might have guessed you were a religious fucktard.  Dope for Jeebus.  Typical.

      • Birdie1986

        So, God is a petulant child who says if you won’t play by my rules, I’m going to take my ball and go home.  And, again, please somebody tell me why I would be supposed to worship that God?

      • Deltalyrae

        “In the absence of God is pure evil.”  Really?  So a room full of Atheists is like Hell, I guess by your so called “reasoning”.  

  • Mcalistermattr

    THIS ASSHAT GOES TO MY CHURCH (I go with my wife for “support”)

  • Mike Laing

    About a month or two ago there was a graphic going around facebook of a Mary Had A Little Lamb version that started normal – it made the children laugh and play – but then devolved into about not being able to bring the ‘lamb’ to school, and now they had veritable war zone as their playground at school. I told whoever, a friend, that it was BS, what if Mary was a muslim etc, and furthermore, our elementary schools are not overrun with thugs and gang wars, so don’t be so stupid.

    I saw a comment on Facebook yesterday from some christian that this stuff never happened 50 years ago, and oh by the way, there was prayer in public schools back then.

    Of course I ripped him for using tragedy to promote fucking religion, and also drew quite a few correlations to other benign changes that have taken place, like there were no cell phones back then, etc. 

    It’s either the gun freaks, or some religious freaks, or both, that crawl out of the woodwork to use tragedy to promote their agenda. (Or create strawmen like the pic I mentioned)

  • Gs4000

    Gandhi was right about Christians. They are so unlike their Jesus Christ.

    • Isilzha

      Eh, in some ways that’s good as I don’t think jeebus is a shining example of humanity.  He did tell people they couldn’t follow him unless they hated and abandoned their families. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Zacharias-Wolf-Thompson/100001491951358 Zacharias Wolf Thompson

    I guess with that mentality we better put god back in the churches too. Someone needs to stop all of the raping of nuns and molestation of children in them. I guess god isn’t in movie theaters, shopping malls, abortion clinics or city streets either. If god let all of those innocent children die because “he wasn’t allowed in” he’s no saviour, he is a self serving, egotistical maniac. Of course it takes one to follow one. Mike Huckabee, you sir, are an Idiot.   

  • http://twitter.com/numalum Numalum

    This kind of obscenity is the logical conclusion to believing in an eternal Heaven and Hell.  The whole idea is abhorrent to any rational person.

  • dfhjaloiednfal,.

    Yeah, I got one on facebook saying that our next move should be to put the bible back in schools. This was my colleague at a high school, who KNOWS me and what I stand for. My response: “Yes, because I LOVE guns and immoral acts. You know me!” Ugh. 

    • Coyotenose

      Enough Bibles WOULD make a decent wall against bullets, I suppose. Since phone books are disappearing, we can’t really justify printing and using them anymore, so why not Bibles?

  • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

    THE BEST CHRISTMAS PRESENT EVER was given yesterday by Victoria Soto.

  • Asher Sandbach

    Did anyone notice that the original poster and commenter look exactly the same?

  • jesus thinks you’re a cunt

    Sometimes I wish that xianity was a reality…the rapture
    would come and in one foul swoop all of the xian hate would disappear;
    pedophile priests, born again mass murderers, and best of all the
    evangelicals will no longer stain humanity with their ‘godly’ behaviour…

  • Kaydenpat

    So the murderer did God a favor by killing those children so they could get the “best Christmas gift” ever?  Wow. Just wow.

    I guess for Rightwing Christians saying that killing the children was a gift is better than discussing gun control.

  • Ben

    I’ve seen a news clip where a priest in Newtown says “There are 20 Christmas stars in the heavens tonight.” Comments like that trivialise the deaths (and more importantly, the loss of lives) of the victims.

  • Ben

    I’ve also heard public figures blame the tragedy on the fact that god has been expelled from school. (So to speak.) … I’d sooner say things like this happen because of (among other things) a lack of access to mental health care. And to the stigma attached to people seeking mental health care.

  • jeffj900

    Poe’s Law is a kind of religious Turing Test. I think a corollary would be that no sincere expression of faith on the Internet can be distinguished from the ravings of a lunatic or the intentional mockery of a parody.

    What this implies is that religion mocks itself every time anyone expresses their religious beliefs on the Internet.

  • Ejt

    But surely they won’t be in God’s presence until after the Last Judgement -and only then IF they had faith

  • http://mrda.wordpress.com MRDA

     From a Christian perspective, his logic is tighter than the Virgin Mary.

  • rmhenry

    Thank you for this post.  I saw that a few times yesterday and I had no words to respond to that crazy insensitive point of view.  I just felt like it was a very hurtful thing to say and possibly the cause for why our country is how it is.  How can someone justify that what happened to these kids is great for them?  That’s how that post made me feel.  

  • John

    he took down his page…

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000286331125 Crystal Snodgrass VanDeventer

    So sorry for the loss of your child Angelia.   I think this comment is the most insensitive statement someone could make to any parent. What a horrible (and false) thing to say.

  • http://www.flickr.com/groups/invisiblepinkunicorn Anna

    Well, I suppose it could be worse. He could be a Calvinist telling people that those children are being tortured in hell.

    About 20 children are receiving the BEST CHRISTMAS PRESENT EVER….the presence of our God and our Lord Jesus Christ!

    About 20? Why not all 20? Maybe he’s one of those evangelicals who believes that children automatically go to heaven, but only if they haven’t reached the “age of accountability.”  Perhaps some of those children were non-Christians who, at 9 or 10, were old enough to go to hell.

    • http://www.flickr.com/groups/invisiblepinkunicorn Anna

      Although I’ve since learned that all of the children were 6 and 7 years old, probably still young enough to be considered “heaven-worthy” by most evangelicals. Calvinists excepted, of course.

      • http://www.facebook.com/Dharmaworks David Benjamin Patton

        Anna – he said about  20 because at the time he posted that status update he probably did not know the exact number of kids that had been killed in the shooting yet.

        • http://www.flickr.com/groups/invisiblepinkunicorn Anna

          Ah, thanks, that makes sense. At least he wasn’t implying that some of the children might not be in heaven.

  • Awilson2010

    If John Rennard truly believes what he said, that those children are lucky to be gone from this world, then why doesn’t he join them?

  • Davide

    John,I wish you were there, I really do. In that class, replacing one of the kids or one of the heroic teachers. John 

  • aGoodChristian

    As a Christian, please excuse me while I allow a priest to butt fuck my son.

    • http://www.facebook.com/Dharmaworks David Benjamin Patton

      Is that the quality time the kids get now with jesus in heaven?

    • Coyotenose

       Nonono, you don’t know about the rape ahead of time or condone it. You just make excuses for the people who protect the rapist, give them money, and blame the ’60s.

      See, you don’t understand sophisticated theology.

  • http://itsmyworldcanthasnotyours.blogspot.com/ wmdkitty

    *blink blink*

    What.

    I can’t even…

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Joseph-Moore/504820336 Joseph Moore

    That is the stupidity of religion for you. Too bad the religitards cannot go and kill themselves off and bring peace on Earth.

  • Bribo54

    In a box. Covered with dirt. What a wonderful Christmas present.

  • http://www.facebook.com/bcmendoza Brian Mendoza

    a

  • http://www.facebook.com/bcmendoza Brian Mendoza

    To Hemant: As a Christian minister, I agree with you that being a Christian doesn’t make you a better, kinder, more decent human being. We’re just people who find meaning for life in our scriptures. And I wince after reading that deplorable status update. My apologies for all the wacko evangelical nut jobs who say and do ignorant things and defame our religion/worldview.

    To @KnottieNature:disqus: I recently lost my mom to stage 4 cancer last year and my cousin the year prior, and it was frustrating when people would give me pat answers about them being in a better place. I don’t know if you believe in God, but I believe God doesn’t expect us to all of a sudden be comforted in a rush by a few pithy sayings. In fact, I came across a really relevant text in the New Testament that says that same thing:

    Matthew 21:18-
    “A voice was heard in Ramah,
    weeping and loud lamentation,
    Rachel weeping for her children;
    she refused to be comforted,
    because they are no more.”

    Just thought I’d share and say you’re not alone. Blessings.

  • Rich Stow

    What a cold, heartless bastard.  If being with his lord is so wonderful, why doesn’t he join them…

  • Muslima

    muslims suck donkey wang

  • Michaelbrice

    They get to be with jesus? For how long? Is it quality time? 

    There are 31536000 seconds in a year, if only 3 million children have died since the beginning of time  they each get 10 seconds per day with him. That might add up over eternity but it’s not what I call a quality relationship. 

    Plus their mother, father and the rest of their family aren’t there to keep them company….but Yay! 10 seconds a day with jesus!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Janet-Cooper/100000131661879 Janet Cooper

    When someone very close to me & my children took their own life recently, we had a Catholic funeral…At least three times that I remember, the priest said, “We know that he sinned, but the Lord has forgiven him (referring to the belief that it’s a sin to do what this person did)…” Well, if he was forgiven, why did this man in a fancy robe keep saying that?? I thought if I heard this comment one more time, I’m gonna go up & bitch-slap him!! His mother & his sister were sitting right there (as well as his sister’s boyfriend, who had never been inside a Catholic church before), hearing that he sinned, over & over, and then that condescending, “but the Lord has forgiven him…” Well, did he or didn’t he, Father Jerkenheimer??? Great job showing Christ to people, man!!!

  • Emily the Great and Terrible

    I suppose this guy must be pro-choice then, amirite? If Christians believe that life begins at conception and that death is a blessing, then ABORSHUNZ 4 ALL THE PEOPLEZ!!!

  • Jacquelinbufford

    This is probably one of the worst things i have ever read. And excuse me if i am wrong but if you are you a true believer of God, than are you not in his presence at all times?

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002554226606 Kindra Pring Eubanks

    Funny how all you do is whine about how everyone is going to hell until children die and suddenly you’re sure ALL of them go to heaven?

    Regardless, it is sick and insensitive. It’s the problem with religion –  you don’t give two fucks about those kids. You just want to convert people to your psychotic religion. 

  • allein

    The only time I can see the “s/he is in a better place” idea being comforting is when the person was suffering in this life. My aunt died in March and I can see that sentiment comforting some of mymore religious family members, because she was in pain and barely knew what was going on around her and she wasn’t going to get better. I don’t believe she’s in any place now, but I am at least comforted to know she’s not here in agony anymore.  I feel the same about a family friend who died in hospice a few years ago.

    How anyone could be comforted by being told a bunch of 6- and 7-year-olds with their whole lives ahead of them are somehow better off now, I cannot fathom.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ben.tousey Ben Tousey

    And Christians are truly befuddled when they try to tell us about Jesus and we tell them to leave us alone. Who wants any part of a god who would think that this is okay… EVEN IF there was an afterlife, we don’t live there… we live here… in this life… and that god would allow any child… the truly innocent to suffer… shows a petty dictator interested only in servitude…

    Their god is simply the North Korean dictatorship… superstitious, controlling, and violent.

    And when something awful like this happens, they don’t mourn with those who mourn, they blame the victims. It’s the children’s fault they got shot because they didn’t have guns themselves.

    Christians can’t just accept that they’re pain in the world and I think it’s because if they did, they’d have to admit that they’re god is out of control. He’s in way over his head and he’s powerless to save them. Thus, if they blame others, they can continue to believe that their god “can” take care of them rather than face the harsh reality that he can’t (or won’t).

  • http://www.facebook.com/katherine.appello.5 Katherine Appello

    Last night one of the parents of a student killed at Columbine said it best.  In a time like that, just hug them, cry with them, let them rant and rave, remember with them, and later on when the initial shock has gone, then offer to pray with them or whatever they need spiritually to do. Don’t right away give them platitudes and Bible verses.

  • invisigoth

    A very simple “I’m sorry for your loss” is all that should be said.

  • I_Dont_Believe_In_Gods

    For those of you who have Facebook, I don’t like Brad White
    Ministries’ illustration and plagiarized poem either: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151186659108918&set=a.255974098917.138458.181289158917&type=1&theater
    .  Tell me if the link doesn’t work for
    you and I’ll post the picture and poem.

     

    • Coyotenose

       Yeah, they deleted it or made it a “friends only” post. Typical cowardice.

      • I_Dont_Believe_In_Gods

         

        I had forgotten to save the image file before Brad White
        Ministries’ took it down.  After you said
        that they took it down, I looked through over 800 pictures on The Facebook page
        for the organization and I couldn’t find it. 
        I did find other annoying references to the tragedy, some Young Earth
        Creationism, and a lot of other melarkey from before the tragedy.  Brad White put on his page that he’s been to
        all 50 states, all 10 Canadian provinces, and 63 countries.  So he’s apparently he’s a traveling used
        religion salesman.

         

        OK.  The picture that
        I saw was an illustration of Jesus sitting on a carpet with elementary school students
        in a classroom while a teacher read a book to them.  The plagiarized poem starts with, “Twas 11
        days before Christmas at about 9:48…” 
        The poem continues and is about how the writer believes that the kids
        were quickly taken up to Heaven faster than they realized, looked down at Earth’s
        problems from space, and were hugged by Jesus.  Why does the author think that they are all Christian?

         

        But if you read Matthew 10:34-37 at http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/mt/10.html , Jesus hates kids.  In Revelation, Jesus or God kills a quarter
        of mankind.  Then in Revelation, a third
        of Mankind dies.  It sounds like a god of fire and brimstone.

  • http://www.facebook.com/janine.g.christian Janine Gilliam Christian

    So I wonder why he’s not giving his family the “best present ever”?

  • PrayingForAllofYou

    Twas’ 11 days before Christmas, around 9:38when 20 beautiful children stormed through heaven’s gate.their smiles were contagious, their laughter filled the air. They could hardly believe all the beauty they saw there.they were filled with such joy, they didn’t know what to say.they remembered nothing of what had happened earlier that day.”where are we?” asked a little girl, as quiet as a mouse.”this is heaven.” declared a small boy. “we’re spending Christmas at God’s house.”when what to their wondering eyes did appear,but Jesus, their savior, the children gathered near.He looked at them and smiled, and they smiled just the same.then He opened His arms and He called them by name.and in that moment was joy, that only heaven can bringthose children all flew into the arms of their Kingand as they lingered in the warmth of His embrace,one small girl turned and looked at Jesus’ face.and as if He could read all the questions she hadHe gently whispered to her, “I’ll take care of mom and dad.”then He looked down on earth, the world far belowHe saw all of the hurt, the sorrow, and woethen He closed His eyes and He outstretched His hand,”Let My power and presence re-enter this land!””may this country be delivered from the hands of fools””I’m taking back my nation. I’m taking back my schools!”then He and the children stood up without a sound.”come now my children, let me show you around.”excitement filled the space, some skipped and some ran.all displaying enthusiasm that only a small child can.and i heard Him proclaim as He walked out of sight,”in the midst of this darkness, I AM STILL THE LIGHT.”

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Roedy-Green/593738145 Roedy Green

    The notion that the dead are better off is an excuse for murder. Christian soldiers butcher in war as if it were a video game. They imagine they are not “really” killing anyone.

    Oddly this screwy thinking does not apply to someone in terminal pain begging to die. These people are better off alive.

  • kmuzu

    I always wonder were was God before the tragedy?

  • Sarah

    There may seem to be no comfort when something tragic happens but tragic things are never brought on by God but by the devil. All of you are missing the main point here. You may not agree with me now but wait till the right moment comes. Good luck!

  • oobajeeba

    I keep telling other Atheists… “Don’t be under the delusion that we are out of danger of the burning times.”

    We are not more than one or two “elections” away from a zealot politician rallying these forces of hate again.

    These people are dangerous.

    This is how religion works.. It gets in power, people get slaughtered, it goes out of favor.. but it has always returned..

    People think.. Oh this is america.. we have our rights.. this will never be able to happen again…

    Fools..

    Look how many of our rights have already been privatly voted away without our consent in the interests of our own protecton?

    Everything you say and do tracked? Warrantless arrests and dissaperance of americans as enemy combatants…

    We are on the verge of very dark times..

    People need to take a long hard look at the movie V for Vendetta..

    It’s becomming reality.


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