We Don’t Need to Force God Into Our Schools; Mass Murders Happen in Religious Places, Too

Bryan Fischer:

Fischer said that God could have protected the victims of this massacre, but didn’t because “God is not going to go where he is not wanted” and so if school administrators really want to protect students, they will start every school day with prayer:

Mike Huckabee:

“We ask why there is violence in our schools, but we have systematically removed God from our schools,” Huckabee said on Fox News, discussing the murder spree that took the lives of 20 children and 6 adults in Newtown, CT that morning. “Should we be so surprised that schools would become a place of carnage?”

Since Columbine, there have been dozens of mass shootings in America. For all the talk that God was kicked out of our schools and that God won’t go where he’s not wanted, it seems appropriate to mention that several of the shootings occurred at religious schools or places of worship:

  • August 5, 2012. Six Sikh temple members were killed when 40-year-old US Army veteran Wade Michael Page opened fire in a gurdwara in Oak Creek, Wisconsin. Four others were injured, and Page killed himself.
  • April 2, 2012. A former student, 43-year-old One L. Goh killed 7 people at Oikos University, a Korean Christian college in Oakland, CA. The shooting was the sixth-deadliest school massacre in the US and the deadliest attack on a school since the 2007 Virginia Tech massacre.
  • October 2, 2006. An Amish schoolhouse in Lancaster, PA was gunned down by 32-year-old Charles Carl Roberts, Roberts separated the boys from the girls, binding and shooting the girls. 5 young girls died, while 6 were injured. Roberts committed suicide afterward.
  • March 12, 2005. A Living Church of God meeting was gunned down by 44-year-old church member Terry Michael Ratzmann at a Sheraton hotel in Brookfield, WI. Ratzmann was thought to have had religious motivations, and killed himself after executing the pastor, the pastor’s 16-year-old son, and 7 others. Four were wounded.
  • September 15, 1999. Larry Gene Ashbrook opened fire on a Christian rock concert and teen prayer rally at Wedgewood Baptist Church in Fort Worth, TX. He killed 7 people and wounded 7 others, almost all teenagers. Ashbrook committed suicide.

The point here is that senseless violence doesn’t stop at a church door. God doesn’t put a bulletproof dome over our body when we profess our faith in Him. Religion doesn’t prevent any of this shit from happening any more than belief in God stops people from committing murder.

So enough of the ridiculous notion that the Newtown massacre happened because we “took God out of our schools.” Not only did we never do that, but even if we had, it wouldn’t have stopped this shooting from occurring.

Anyone can pray in a public school. No atheist/liberal/civil-liberties group has ever wanted to take that right away from anyone. It should be a personal decision, though, not a mandated one.

To Christians: Pray all you want in school. I hope it makes you feel better. But stop pretending like reading Bible verses aloud in class or saying the Lord’s Prayer over the loudspeaker will make everything better. It won’t. It never has. It never will.

About Hemant Mehta

Hemant Mehta is the editor of Friendly Atheist, appears on the Atheist Voice channel on YouTube, and co-hosts the uniquely-named Friendly Atheist Podcast. You can read much more about him here.

  • PunkRockPoet84

    My comment about “putting god back in schools” has Always been that doing so disenfranchises those kids who don’t believe in a god and makes them feel even more like outsiders, which is the opposite of what needs to be done to prevent mass shootings.

    • http://twitter.com/silo_mowbray Silo Mowbray

      Agreed, but the Religious Right don’t care about that. They’re very much a “you’re either with us or you’re The Other” crowd.

    • Troels Jakobsen

      You’re not supposed to consider it rationally. Mandatory school prayer is a remedy which will magically alleviate all the problems of society, that’s all we need to know. Besides, if the kids feel uncomfortable with Christianity, then all the more reason to force it upon them, yes?

      • Christianity_over_religion

        I believe you are confusing Religion with Christianity. Religion has brought about the “you’re either with us or against us” attitude not Christianity. Jesus founded his church and IF you believe in Jesus then you can’t discount the teachings in the Bible. The teachings in the New Testament show how Jesus only ever alienated the RELIGIOUS. TRUE Christians need the lost to help grow the church not to alienate them.
        Also remember that Jesus will not and has never performed miracles for the people. He only ever performed miracles to bring glory to the Kingdom of his Father.

    • Myrmidon

      This seems to be implying that the people who commit mass shootings are atheists who feel like outsiders. Please correct me if i’m misinterpreting what you wrote.

      • monyNH

         I think PunkRock is saying that it’s outsiders in general–not specifically atheists–who tend to commit these types of mass shootings. Evidence does suggest that while most loners/outsiders do not have homicidal tendencies, many who do commit these types of violent acts follow the pattern of being loners.

        http://www.npr.org/2012/12/15/167346770/profiling-mass-shooters-and-assessing-threats

      • PunkRockPoet84

         monyNH is right. I was stating that those who feel like outsiders are more likely to commit such acts.

        • Myrmidon

          Thank you for the clarification :)

  • http://twitter.com/cog_dissident cognitive dissident

    Additions to your list:

    The 2008 Unitarian-Universalist Church shooting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knoxville_Unitarian_Universalist_church_shooting and the 2009 assassination of Dr Tiller at a Lutheran Church http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_George_Tiller

    • Jon Peterson

      2007 New Life Church, Colorado: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Life_Church_(Colorado_Springs,_Colorado)#Shooting

      I’ll never forget that one. I have a friend that was there, working as an usher.

  • C Peterson

    Another thing to consider: our schools are not dangerous, and they are not becoming more so. Student homicides in schools have declined over the last 20 years. Events like that in Newtown are shocking and have the effect of distorting our sense of statistics. In the same way that we can see a single plane crash as a huge tragedy while somehow overlooking that several orders of magnitude more people are killed every year in cars (but slowly… one at a time), we can overlook the real dangers that children face. More kids have died in the last 20 years because their religious parents denied them medical treatment than have been killed in school massacres. More kids died on school playground equipment than were shot. Far more kids were killed in transportation accidents just getting to or from school.

    • Rwlawoffice

       “More kids have died in the last 20 years because their religious parents
      denied them medical treatment than have been killed in school
      massacres.”

      I am not being argumentative on this point but I would like to see your evidence for it.

      • C Peterson

        I just Googled some stats and added up the numbers. I didn’t jot them down, but it should be easy enough for you do do the same.

      • Piet Puk

        And we are still waiting for any evidence of the existence of your god.

        • Missy4576

          really eveidence???  read this   http://now.msn.com/robert-ballard-says-noahs-ark-evidence-comes-to-light

          God exist!!!
          God bless you.
           

        • Amber Wisterman

          Evidence.. Your soul, maybe? Like the thing that holds your emotion,, laughter, love, and the light in your eyes.. Where’d that come from, molecules and atoms? Doubtful.

          • Chris

            You answered your own question…

          • kpatterson

            Amber, take a biology class. Maybe you’ll learn a little about how the world actually works.

      • Chris

        It’s funny how you’re asking for evidence, considering there is ZERO evidence for a ‘god’, yet most deluded people think a ‘god’ exists… Oh, and I’m not being argumentative…

    • Amber Wisterman

      Wait, since when are school not becoming dangerous? Shootings aren’t the only thing we have to worry about. Bullying is becoming a huge problem. Just in this tiny city I live in, about 2 years ago a 16 year old girl got beat nearly to death in the girls bathroom with a crowd so big it was pouring out into the hallway. This girl got her face smashed into the walls, toilets, etc as people just watched. Her jaw was dislocated and won’t be able to used normally again. This girl was accused of “snitching” about a drug deal and she wasn’t even the one who did it. I see extreme bullying being streamed on the internet and hear about it locally, sorry, but our schools are dangerous, and are becoming more so as the hate shoots sky high in this world.

      Also, i can understand how people may not believe in God due to not being raised to believe, or how science may play a part. But what I don’t understand is how people fail to see deeper than that. You can tell the difference between someone who is alive and someone who is dead by the light they hold in their eyes.. What do you think happens to that light.. to your SOUL? What loves and laughs, and cries and holds all emotion. Do you think that will just perish and go to dust like our bodies will? Does everyone not see how it is possible for us to be here, put here by a creator, to love and help one another? Like no one is doing, because “morals” and kindness, and truely acting as a Christian should is no longer heard of anymore. Because families no longer raise their children and live their lives on the foundation of God.. Yes, I am trying to push my beliefs, because God is the only one that can help your spirit. I am a fisher of men, so I’ll do what it takes to get you saved. :) It can dark and it can get lonely, but He is the light♥

      • http://twitter.com/Witchwyd Peggy Watts

        Christianity is not the only moral religion. If fact it seems to teach otherwise. To “force” Christianity on all non-Christians is not only immoral it is unethical and un-American. Your belief system is yours, and I’m glad you like it. But, I do not agree with it and that is my right. Christianity is as far removed from universal love as you can get.

  • dorothy30

    thank you!!! this post couldn’t have been better timed! i woke up this morning to see this crap posted all through my facebook newsfeed and i was just in the process of googling ‘christian school shooting’ when i digressed to your blog and read this. i have shared it on my wall. just waiting for the *&^%$ to hit the fan now :)

    • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/ Kevin_Of_Bangor

      A friend of mine posted the below image on facebook and I had a nice little retort for her. She has yet to respond though.

      • Bad_homonym

        Yeah, god must really be omnipotent, except when confronted with the constitution. If god were real and allowed this to happen, I’d be first in line to worship him!

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Torsten-Pihl/784367178 Torsten Pihl

        What was your retort?

    • Missy4576

      People who don’t believe in God and have doubt about his power and his mercy are more easily convince to do the wrong thing as the right thing “ God told me to do it”. God never will tell you to take other lives or hurt others; he will teach you about love, protection and forgiveness with others, that is what helps define a true Christian, to be as Jesus was.
      .

  • Rwlawoffice

    As a recent member of the Freedom from Religion Foundation Hemant, you know better then to make the comment that organizations like that have never tried to take God or prayer out of school.  Sure, you try to limit it to school sponsored prayer and claim that is the extent of your argument, but this is disingenuous. You have also encouraged mocking those of faith in an effort to shut them up, your organizations have tried to prevent students from offering their own prayers in graduation speeches, your organizations have established an environment that makes school officials go as far as editing a student speech on his grandfather that mentioned God, you applaud and call a hero a student who led the cause to remove a student drafted banner that was a prayer, you and your organizations have done all they can to limit displays of worship to private homes or places of worship.

    So spare me the argument that you have not tried to remove prayer from school by stating all you are doing is eliminating mandated prayer.  It is simply not true.

     

    • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/ Hemant Mehta

      Citations needed since you’re wrong.

      • Rwlawoffice

         Atheists including the almighty Richard Dawkins calling on atheists to mock people of faith and show them contempt:

        http://content.usatoday.com/communities/Religion/post/2012/03/-atheists-richard-dawkins-reason-rally/1#.UM5jw6ww83k

        The hero Jessica Ahiquist who filed suit to remove a student written prayer banner from her school:

        http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/27/us/rhode-island-city-enraged-over-school-prayer-lawsuit.html?_r=0

        Student filing suit over student led prayer at graduation ceremony:

        http://www.free-times.com/index.php?cat=11002508102222227&ShowArticle_ID=11010606122815693

        Medina Valley lawsuit over how much prayer can be contained in a valedictorian’s speech at graduation.  Not school led, her own speech mind you:

        http://www.free-times.com/index.php?cat=11002508102222227&ShowArticle_ID=11010606122815693

        Environment created caused school to remove God from first grader’s speech:

        http://thenewamerican.com/culture/faith-and-morals/item/13831-school-forces-first-grader-to-remove-%E2%80%9Cgod%E2%80%9D-from-poem-honoring-her-grandfather?tmpl=component&print=1

        Cites as you requested.  All of these prove my point. It is not just “mandated” prayer or mention of God that you want removed.  It is all reference in any public way by students as well.  I did not include all of the student led prayers at football games.  Those could be included as well.

        Note what I am saying- your post stated that all FFRF and atheists want is to remove mandated prayer from schools.  These examples show otherwise.

        • Bad_homonym

          Seems in every example the students in question are representing the school, and as such they are excluding some by endorsing a single religion. Clearly violationg the establishment clause. What is the name of your law firm? I want to make sure I never hire and incompetetent in matters of such import!

          • Rwlawoffice

             They are using their free speech rights to express their religious beliefs.  The fact that they are doing it in a speech in front of other students doesn’t make it unconstitutional but atheists groups like FFRF claim that it does.  So no  violation of the establishment clause but examples in support of my claim as requested by Hemant.

            As for my services, you would be lucky to have me as your lawyer.

            • http://www.flickr.com/groups/invisiblepinkunicorn Anna

              So you’re still a practicing lawyer? I thought you were a seminary student.

              • Rwlawoffice

                 Both at the same time.  Getting my masters degree in Biblical studies. And actively practicing law every day.

                • http://www.flickr.com/groups/invisiblepinkunicorn Anna

                  You must be busy. My brother’s a lawyer, too. He barely has time for anything else!

          • Bad_homonym

            My sons are told when they don the school uniform they are representatives of the school. Being voted valedictorian also makes you a representative. That makes these prayers school endorsed. I don’t see the big deal since the bible teaches that prayer ought to be private anyway! It seems the religious want privilege not equality!

        • Sharon Hypatiia

          Do you really think it is the smartest move to mention Jessica Ahlquist in a post where you are whining how poor wittle xtians are being “mocked” for trying to trying to force others to participate in their religious practices?
          You should be embarrassed to remind people how badly “loving” xtians can behave when they cannot get their way.

    • http://twitter.com/silo_mowbray Silo Mowbray

      “[...] you and your organizations have done all they can to limit displays of worship to private homes or places of worship.”

      I wish they would actually do that, because that would be awesome!

    • RobMcCune

      What a garbled interpretation of things, if students speak or act on behalf of the school or student body then they shouldn’t use it to promote religion. Notice none of your examples involve banning religious student groups, where students congregate voluntarily, and have a faculty adviser who is free to express their religious beliefs.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/AMNLPDE6FXKEQQ3GVHCCSRZD54 Dave Littler

      “mocking those of faith in an effort to shut them up”

      This seems like a mischaracterization. There’s a world of difference between trying to shut someone up and trying to get them to see that there’s something wrong with their professed beliefs. If by mocking a person’s most sacred beliefs we can demonstrate that they are not sacred, that they are foolish and laughable, it might cause at least some people to stop and wonder if they’re actually being absurd in holding them.

      • Rwlawoffice

         You are making a distinction without a difference. Look at how street preachers are treated at universities to see what I mean. You can rationalize it however you want, but the end goal is to quiet those of faith who are professing it publicly.

        • Piet Puk

           You are making a distinction without a difference. Look at how street preachers are treated at universities to see what I mean. You can rationalize it however you want, but the end goal is to quiet those of faith who are professing it publicly.

          Wow, so those ‘street’ preachers that have numerous streets to preach on, but choose to publicly annoy and harass students at universities with their asshattery have more rights to free speech than the students at the university. 
          Christian logic..

          • Rwlawoffice

            Come on Piet, your reading comprehension is better than that.  I wasn’t comparing rights, I was giving examples of mocking to shut up people of faith. Those that do that to street preachers are just following the directions of their fearless leader Richard Dawkins.

            • Piet Puk

              Your understanding of irony is even worse than your grasp of reality. Amazing!

            • pascalecake

              I don’t think the mocking was ever intended to “shut up” theists — nor does it ever have that effect.

              Its intent is to get people to RETHINK their assumptions, and consider whether the EVIDENCE/REASONING behind those beliefs is valid.

    • C Peterson

      There is entirely legal prayer in school, as when a student prays before a class or before a test. And there is entirely illegal prayer in school, as when it is piped across the speakers, offered at a school event, or in any way endorsed by the staff. FFRF only goes after the illegal prayer. So it is perfectly reasonable to say that it does not seek to remove prayer from school. The only prayer they address is that which legally is not allowed to be there in the first place.

      • Rwlawoffice

         Not what Hemant stated.  He stated they only want to remove mandated prayer.  My examples above show otherwise. Student saying prayers aloud at school events, in their own speeches even at school events is something that the FFRF looks for ways to eliminate.  They have filed numerous lawsuits over it.  Of course they will say that if you want to pray silently that is your right, but if you say it out loud where others can hear they want that stopped.

    • Willy Occam

      Apparently, religionists can’t distinguish the subtleties of individual prayer vs. state-sanctioned prayer.  It’s all or nothing to them: if they can’t have it all (Constitution be damned!), then they are being “attacked” and “mocked.”

      Seriously, are you folks just looking for another excuse to exercise your persecution complex, or are you really too stupid to tell the difference between “public” and “private”?  It’s really not that difficult a concept to grasp.

      • Rwlawoffice

         If you will look really hard in the First Amendment there is no clause that says faith must be exercised in private. So when a student gets up in their school and gives a speech that they wrote, the First Amendment allows them to speak of their faith.  The fact this is public is does not make it state sanctioned but as I pointed out the FFRF and other groups want to make it so in an effort to keep those prayers out of those environments.

        • amycas

           I see you’re just going to ignore what others have written in response to your bullshit about students giving speeches. That’s pretty typical of you though. Carry on spouting crap others have already shown to be false though.

    • Piet Puk

      You and your persecution complex again.. 

  • http://twitter.com/Red_Rabbit2 Red_Rabbit

    A list of children killed because they were refused medical care due to religious reasons.  I don’t know if it’s comprehensive or if it numbers more or less than those killed in school shootings but the list is long.

    http://www.masskids.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=161&Itemid=165

  • Freethnkr

    Amen.

  • Guest

    Forcing God or not forcing God makes no difference.  Fact is, mass murders happen.  Period.  Just like violence happens.  Period.  One of the lamest, and probably most dangerous, trends in recent history has been to assume it’s this or that which leads to violence, death, whatever – with the caveat that’s it’s this or that I’m not associated with.  Are there more cases of religious people doing horrible things in the name of religion?  Yeah.  Duh.  Most cultures and most people throughout history have been religious.  That’s just having numbers on your side. Yet there have been plenty of cases, in the relatively new non-religious settings, that have shown people are quite adept at adjusting their lust for death to the latest, hippest, whether religious or not religious.  As for the lame and intellectual donkey-fart notion that atheists can’t do evil in the name of atheism since atheism is the grand not-un-not-thing, that’s so sad it’s laughable.  No better is the atheist meme that if atheists did horrible things in atheist settings, it must be because they treated something (even their secularism) as a religion. I mean, really?  Can we say asinine?  Fact is, people have been killing throughout history for a wide variety of reasons, and utilizing a wide variety of rationales.  It’s what people do. If we really want to solve the problems, we’ll really look at the real issues at hand, and admit that no matter what people think or believe  humans are capable of abusing anything to commit such crimes.  Otherwise, it’s likely we are far less concerned about solving the problems or preventing future crimes than we are wining an argument or advancing our agendas.  And that’s ironic, since that alone has probably been one of the greatest contributors to human misery through the ages. 

    • Kat

      I am an atheist, and I agree with your comments.  Humans need to assign reasons to non-rational acts, and one of the frequently used reasons is the affect of extreme religiosity.  We do need to look at all of the causes of a problem to solve a problem; and we also need to continue to resist creeping theocracy.

    • Bad_homonym

      If the god of the bible were real, he would definatly hold a doctorate in mass murder!

      • Missy4576

        People who don’t believe in God and have doubt about his power and his mercy are more easily convince to do the wrong thing as the right thing “ God told me to do it”. God never will tell you to take other lives or hurt others; he will teach you about love, protection and forgiveness with others, that is what helps define a true Christian, to be as Jesus was.

    • Sergio Castro

      Thank you for this. As an atheist I have a hard time with some other non-theists who pretend to be “better” than religious people because they are “humanists” or whatever. Not because I disbelieve them, but because I myself am not a particularly “good” person. Nor am I bad. I just am. Do I have the capacity to murder? Probably. Doesn’t everyone? Do I thank Big Pharma every day for the meds that keep me sane and in step with modern society? Yup.

      All of us could be a mass-murderer. That is why so many people who are not comfortable with their own weaknesses seek to distance themselves from people like Adam Lanza. It scares the bejezzus out of them to think they might have a lot more in common with him than they want to admit.

  • guest_nelson

    Looks like someone needs to read “There is a God” by Antony Flew and “Evidence that Demands A Verdict” by Josh McDowell.  Prayer works regardless of your skepticism just like the law of gravity.   I have personally SEEN prayer answered several times in my life.  But just like “Doubting Thomas” and the Israelites, MIRACLES still won’t convince the HARD HEARTED people out there.  We just need to pray for Hemant and Richard Dawkins.

    • Bad_homonym

      My heart isnt hard! convince me! show me examples of real miracles. not the stuff that happens on its own or through medicine. real miracles! Oh by the way, I was once a follower, for over 16 years, so your arguement isnt likely to be new to me. but I am open to reason

      • Missy4576

        I can show you many miracles, but alway will be no enough for you to believe, you have to own miracle with God, the day when your eyes will be open like Saulo de Tarso.

        God Bless you.

    • Sharon Hypatiia

       “Evidence that Demands A Verdict”? Payer works?
      Hee Hee! Haw! Haw! Haw! That’s a good one! Thanks for the laugh!

      • Missy4576

        God is real, and he will give you the real happines in your life and you will laugh for ever.

        God bless you.

    • http://twitter.com/silo_mowbray Silo Mowbray

      Also, homeopathy WORKS! I’ve SEEN it!

      • Mairianna

        I sacrificed a chicken and was healed!

    • amycas

       Looks like somebody has never read anything else at this site and doesn’t know how to comment about the topic at hand.

    • Brian Scott

      Please look up the following: hypothesis testing, Bayes’ Theorem.

      If I catch a cold, pray, and my cold recedes, has prayer worked? Think very, very hard before you answer that.

  • Slpmichaelle@yahoo.com

    Darn mobile limits my accessibility… Hope someone finds this and can respond. I just learned our local school is doing a fundraising event (collaboration with nearby school) to benefit churches of cndga (our town). I learned of this from mass email from principal, & responded by email. This seems sooooo wrong. Didn’t I read on here somewhere else had similar problem with public institution (school) raising funds for essentially private religious groups… No matter how many people they claim to help (we know no LG among)…??? Thanks!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Gary-J-Hill/612712609 Gary J Hill

    Why don’t you have a look at the number of shootings and, more importantly the number of deaths, on school property before and after June 17, 1963 when the U.S. Supreme Court effectively kicked God out of school.  The numbers are astounding and not coincidental.  Maybe, just maybe, if prayer and the Bible were allowed in schools, men such as Adam Lanza would have had the proper morality training to not turn into a murderer.

    • TheG

      Thank you for your suggestion. I did find that there has been an increase in school shootings since 1963 (although that number has been decreasing since the early 80′s). If it wasn’t for your prompting, I wouldn’t have found out that the number of church/religious institution shootings has also increased since then.

      Thank you. I have now concluded that God is angry with how religious church has become. Maybe less people would be killed in church if they kicked God out.

    • Piet Puk

       Why don’t you take it a step further and see how the murder rate in the US has changed since ‘Under God’ was added to the pledge in 1954?

    • amycas

       “Maybe, just maybe, if prayer and the Bible were allowed in schools, men
      such as Adam Lanza would have had the proper morality training to not
      turn into a murderer.”

      Fuck you, I don’t use the Bible as my moral guide, and I’m not a murderer; neither are millions of other atheists, buddhists, muslims, pagans and spritualists who don’t consult your shitty bible for their morals.

    • pascalecake

      Your God is super lame, and awful if the lack of worshipping him makes him so insecure that he allows children to be killed.

      Lanza didn’t need morality training, he needed psychiatric help – probably medication, and inpatient treatment.  How lazy is your thought process?!  I can’t imagine how confusing the world must appear to you.

      • eonL5

        And even if you (not you personally, pascalecake) think people need more “morality training”… isn’t that what parents are for? And supposedly churches? It certainly is not what schools are for.

      • Missy4576

        People who don’t believe in God and have doubt about his power and his mercy are more easily convince to do the wrong thing as the right thing “ God told me to do it”. God never will tell you to take other lives or hurt others; he will teach you about love, protection and forgiveness with others, that is what helps define a true Christian, to be as Jesus was.
        You have a wrong idea about God.
        God has mercy.

        God bless oyu

      • Bad_homonym

        Hell. That god murdered 42 kids for teasing a bald man.

        On a side note. My phone just tried to auto correct Baldwin for bald man!
        That made for a strange read!

  • a BELIEVER IN/OF GOD

    send a message to the families of sandy hook elem. who are suffering through their losses right now.. tell them they don’t need god.. tell the school staff they don’t need god there either.. somehow i do not see all of your athiest intellect getting through.. god is real, isn’t it amazing in the face of tragedy you see the majority of this god founded nation turn to him, reason that 1 away…   http://www.petitiononline.com/seb7/petition.html

  • anonymous

    best thing as an atheist. i support pro-gun knowing i have one life. i cherish it even more. every law abiding citizen should be armed. every person deserves the right to protect their life. what the news forgets to tell you is that 2.5 million cases of self defense using a pistol has occurred in a year. thats 6,800 ish. without pistols and guns then 2.5 million criminal cases would of occured. more rape. more kidnapping. gun free zones don’t work.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Sandy-Kokch/100000074576649 Sandy Kokch

    You missed off the list the white power nutball who machine gunned down a load of Jewish kids at their school, then offed a Latino postman.

    Hi….is that Christian America? Good, I have The Aztec’s on the line. They would like their Worship Me Or Suffer Death-Cult God back now please.

  • Don.

    It’s not praying in schools, or that religious instituions are free from evil, it’s about the demoralizing of our nation through the removal of a standard of moral conern and behavior. The decline of moral guidelines that are not taught through other means than a religous standard. Again, no one is free from the evil of the world but without hope through the standard or guidline, the ten comandments, and the teaching of this through a moral source as Christianit, what do we derive our existance from?

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_PAWCZHLV35VC3JDET5BSJ67QY4 WorldTraveler

      Don.,
      The examples in this article are occurrences that happened in environments where a “standard of moral concern and behavior” (which you advocate) was not removed. Despite this standard being in place, you still have these types of mass-killing phenomena.
      These religious locations that also suffered these tragedies, have moral guidelines that are taught via a religious standard, yet that religious standard has produced no different results than a secular one.
      Your argument overlooks this.

      You asked the question: “What do we derive our existance from?”
      There’s an essay on an atheistic site (called ebon musings), which is titled “The ineffable carrot and the infinite stick”.
      Google it for an exhaustive argument on this topic of derived morality.
      The premise of the article is that “ethical behavior requires no theistic justification, and
      can be rationally supported apart from belief in a god or gods.
      Furthermore, … morality is better justified by secular, humanistic reasons than by an appeal to divine will.”

      While I am personally not an atheist, I find that much of atheistic rationale and logic streams to fall in line with my own.
      Happy reading, if you choose to do so.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Torsten-Pihl/784367178 Torsten Pihl

    There are shootings at religious institutions because they are not inviting the correct god(s) in, clearly!


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