Pastor @RickWarren Knows What ‘Real Men’ Eat

Pastor Rick Warren, who has a history of sending out tweets that he later regrets (and deletes), just sent out this message to his 825,000+ followers:

You would think a man who’s in the spotlight as much as he is would know better than to make sweeping generalizations that have no basis in reality — even if it is just for the sake of a joke.

I probably wouldn’t take it as seriously if Warren didn’t already have a history of saying things that put down men who aren’t like him. What does his joke imply, anyway? That only effeminate men eat wraps? That eating healthy isn’t something men should worry about? (Ironic, given that Warren has been in the headlines for leading a weight loss campaign at his church, and eating wraps might do them all some good.)

For what it’s worth, I’m a man. I’m a vegetarian. I eat wraps. Rick Warren is wrong. (Again.) And sexist to boot.

At least people are starting to respond:

About Hemant Mehta

Hemant Mehta is the editor of Friendly Atheist, appears on the Atheist Voice channel on YouTube, and co-hosts the uniquely-named Friendly Atheist Podcast. You can read much more about him here.

  • trog69

    Perhaps a petition should be posted at the WH website asking Pres. Obama if he plans on inviting a non-homophobe to the inauguration this time.

  • Lonborghini Funghini

    Real men don’t need imaginary friends either.

  • vexorian

    Wraps are supposed to be healthy?

  • dan

    rick warren is an idiot but anybody who takes an issue with this is just hyper-sensitive. it’s a joke, end of story. he hates wraps and loves burritos. there’s plenty of other things to demonize him about

  • grumblekitty

    You know what? I’m about sick to death of “it’s just a joke”. Bullshit, man. Saying “it’s just a joke” doesn’t make it not hurtful. “Jokes” like this add to an already overwhelming atmosphere of anti-woman and anti-gay. This is an atmosphere that condones wife-beating and gay-killing. So you and your “just a joke” can fuck right off.

  • Adam Patrick

    Real mean don’t give a shit what some moron thinks a “real man” is.

  • Craig

    Real men don’t give a shit what Rick Warren thinks.

  • Jeff See

    of course, the burrito, the original ‘wrap’.

  • Adam Patrick

    He should invite a gay atheist. The fundies’ reactions would be hilarious.

  • Gaby Abed

    So easy to troll him…I replied “Real men think before they speak”

  • MichaelBrice

    It always amuses me when fat pastors (isn’t gluttony a sin), and fat religious types start judging others, but do not hold themselves to their own stringent rules.

    As an aside, does anyone know if fat pastor has defined what a ‘real man’ is?

  • gadlaw

    Thanks for subscribing to his tweets – so we don’t have to. And what the heck are ‘wraps’ anyways and how does food say anything about you? Is this a oblique weiner reference by this guy? You know the more you protest and all of that. (going to google ‘wraps’ now)

  • Pepe


  • hiloha

    So, I definitely hate this man, but I actually think he was being facetious in this particular post. Especially because later on in another post he says that he’s had wraps at a particular restaurant. I fully applaud the responses to him, however, because you can’t be sarcastically subtle on twitter, so.

  • TiltedHorizon

    Why is Rick Warren so obsessed with “Real Men”?

  • MichaelBrice

    Wraps are basically foodstuffs wrapped in a flatbread, so in a sense, a ‘tubular sandwich’. Fatbreads originate in countries with muslim and jewish populations, and in Mexico.

    Possibly Warren has an issue with the ‘tubularization’ of sandwiches, maybe god likes his sandwiches in the traditional form first invented by the Earl of Sandwich during an all night gambling session somewhere around the 1750′s.

    Or perhaps he has issues with people using jewish-bread, muslim-bread and mexican-bread instead of good old ‘murrican bread. In any case I think his preoccupation with ‘real men’, what they should eat, and flatbreads is very bizarre,

  • JD929

    He shouldn’t quit his day job for a career as a comedian. Scratch that, he should quit his day job, but comedy is clearly out of the question as a new career.

  • julie

    Of course it’s a joke. Just like it’s funny how men never order salads or eat fruit for a snack because that’s gay. It’s also really funny when they die early because they’ve spent their whole life trying to act as masculine as possible.

  • Mike Laing

    I knew I was an imposter. I don’t eat burritos, AND I eat wraps! And I have two testicles. I can only conclude the @RickWarren doesn’t have two testicles, so he must have zero, one, or three. Nah, he probably has about three-hundred and two like @ChuckNorris.

  • m6wg4bxw

    What’s sarong about eating wraps?

  • jose

    Real men only eat raw meat, freshly killed with their own hands, like that guy from Quo Vadis who kills a motherfucking bull by breaking its neck.

    Remember, with your own hands. Guns are for WIMPS.

  • coyotenose

    “It’s just a joke” is the primary excuse of a bully.

  • hamsterwheel

    Real men eat whatever the fuck they want to eat.

  • Richard Wade

    Ugh. For this fat, phobic, bigoted, self-aggrandizing, crooked-used-car-salesman of a minister (my apologies to crooked used car salesmen) to even pretend to tell anyone what a “real man” is or does, is a nauseatingly vulgar joke. (My apologies to nauseatingly vulgar jokes.)

    Egocentricism and narcissism tend to get worse over time, not better. I think we’re beginning to see a consistent pattern of landmark traits as Antisocial Shaman Syndrome (ASS) progresses through its tragic stages. Warren has gone beyond the stage of extreme arrogance, claiming that he speaks for his god on all issues, and the stage of shameless avarice, pleading that his god is strapped for cash, and is now entering the stage shared by Mark Driscoll, where he fancies himself the god-designed prototype of upstanding manliness. (Reeealllyyy?)

    As Warren ages and his testosterone levels begin to fall, the next stage will be the Pat Robertson-Pope Benedict stage, characterized by random bizarre edicts concerning a god’s preference for political elections, or a god’s wrath causing natural disasters that never kill the actual offenders, or a god’s desire for the death of a particular person who is annoying to the ASS victim.

  • Jon Powell

    Maybe he just has a thing for mexican men.

  • smrnda

    His ‘the closer to god, the less judgmental and more patient you’ll be’ is more ‘criticizing me means there’s something wrong with you, not me.’ It’s just his little twist of Christian doctrine to demand that everybody should refrain from criticizing him, the sign of an insecure little narcissist who wants to use the ‘a real Christian would never criticize a thing that I say.’ Someone in the spotlight as often as Rick should be thinking before he speak, or tweets, but usually when he says something ignorant his first response is to be defensive rather than admit other people might have a point.

  • DougI

    So enchiladas, gyros and sushi aren’t eaten by real men? I suppose I could say that real men have careers that don’t involve begging for a living, using tax shelters and makes their living by espousing bigotry.

  • roberthughmclean

    Got no idea who this bloke Warren is, but what a twit. The deluded are rather funny when they try to be “cool” simply because they’re not and neither is what they’re offering.

  • Baby_Raptor

    Someone who follows his version of christianism, obviously.

  • Baby_Raptor

    If your first paragraph was small enough for Twitter, I’d just request permission to steal that and post it at him. It says pretty much all that needs to be said.

  • Rich Wilson

    I’m starting my own list of people and groups to ignore.

    So far I’ve got WBC and WLC. I think I’m adding Rick Warren.

  • Bubba Tarandfeathered

    No matter what “real men” supposedly eat or not, it all comes out smelling like shit.

  • Troels Jakobsen

    Inferiority complex.

  • trog69

    I’d pay to see that.

  • Tyler Davis

    It seems as if the liberal community simply loves getting offended. The smallest things like this tweet give you some kind of pathetic soapbox to stand and show how offended you were by this mean old Christian. I suppose you all have a beef (Opps, meat. OFFENSIVE!) with Slim Jim’s ad campaign. It’s incredible to me that such a minuscule tweet could give you some sort of banner to gather behind and chant “Death to Rick Warren!”

    Quite frankly, I don’t care what offends you. When you call everything offensive, nothing is truly offensive. If you can’t take a joke, get off of twitter or deal with it.

  • KeithCollyer

    which was always my response to the original “real men don’t eat quiche” from what, thirty or so years ago?

  • Dan

    Cool story Tyler, you are such a tough guy.

  • Rwlaw

    For people who profess to live by reason and being rational you guys lose all perspective when it comes to Rick Warren.

  • Lonborghini Funghini

    Wow, 42 thumbs up! Thank you, thank you very much.

  • Tainda

    I laughed!

  • Baby_Raptor

    Liberals aren’t the ones who go around calling for peoples’ deaths. That’s your side. A for projecting effort, though.

  • Baby_Raptor

    You wouldn’t know what reason is if it bit you in the ass.

  • John A. Anderson

    Can we find something more important to get indignant about? I don’t like the guy either, but we all got the joke when “Real Men Don’t Eat Quiche” was published. He was obviously just kidding.

  • Carpinions

    I guess that makes me a pussy-whipped feminist lapdog then…

  • Rain

    Lips that touch burritos shall never touch mine!

  • Randomfactor

    Jesus ate tortillas.

  • Scott-K

    Perhaps it makes him uncomfortable… Seeing other men taking something long, beige, and tubular into their mouths? Does it bring on the naughty thoughts, Rick?

  • BeasKnees

    ‘tubularization’ of sandwiches

    That is fantastic. :)

  • Antinomian

    How about this for specificity: Rick Warren likes to eat cock in sandwich form with lots of fomunda cheese.

  • RobMcCune

    I don’t know, but I think Rick and Mark Driscoll might make cute couple.

  • Mark O’Leary

    It’s much simpler that that. He’s afraid he’ll catch “the Gay.” He thinks putting tubular things in his mouth will make him want to put ALL tubular things in his mouth.

    But honestly, what prompted this comment in the first place? Is there some burrito debate raging on that I have missed? No? In that case, methinks the gentleman doth protest too much.

  • kaydenpat

    Wonder what makes him qualified to define “real men”. So silly.

  • pagansister

    Nothing I know qualifies him for defining
    real men” or anything else for that matter.

  • pagansister

    I guess that all of those Christian men in HIS church are non-wrap men—after all, no wrap eater would dare join the almighty Rick Warren’s congregation—-right?

  • wmdkitty

    My gods, THIS.

  • wmdkitty

    It’s basically sandwich fixings (or similar) in a tortilla instead of on bread. Low-carb goodness.

  • Anna

    Rick Warren is just one of many evangelical leaders who consistently makes sexist and homophobic statements. What perspective are we lacking? What rational basis is there for finding this man admirable? There’s nothing reasonable about the supernaturalism or negative attitudes he promotes.

  • Anna

    Not to mention, they’re always going on about how all sins are equal, but fat pastors are allowed to lead churches, in spite of their obvious “sin” of gluttony, while pastors who are discovered to be gay are unceremoniously fired, and heavily stigmatized to boot. If all sins are so equal, why are unrepentant fat people allowed to openly participate in evangelical churches, in prominent positions no less, while gay people are treated like the scum of the earth?

  • Rwlawoffice

    This is a classic example of not having perspective. What he said is obviously a joke and people here get bent out of shape. As for admiring him, I don’t expect you too. However, instead of focusing on issues that you disagree with him on like same sex marriage, you could find out what he does for charity and helping those in need. He literally gives away millions of his own dollars for those in need. His church is huge on social activism to help the poor, the addicted, the oppressed etc. As for sexism, you really don’t know how he treats women. I have seen him treat women and have read what he says. He is not sexist. In addition, he works around the globe through his church to help women who have been trafficked. I actually went to a conference at his church where this was a topic. So disagree with him because.

    He has also made it clear that he is not homophobic and said expressly
    that he isn’t. But because of his stance on same sex marriage you will
    disagree with that.This is another example of a lack of perspective.

  • smrnda

    Saying you aren’t a homophobe doesn’t make one not a homophobe. Who decides? Personally, the only people whose opinions ought to count on whether or not a person is a homophone should be gay people. Do white people get to just declare themselves non-racist? Whose opinions ought to count? In my opinion, anybody who wants to deny a same-sex union legal recognition is a homophobe because they actively desire to discriminate against gay people. Can one say “well, I don’t think women should vote or hold office, but I am not a sexist.” In fact, there’s a great deal of psychological research to suggest that people who say “I’m not prejudiced’ tend to be the most prejudiced. .

    Even as a joke, this is boring, dull and pathetic – the ‘real men X’ is about as dull as a slip on a banana peel. So offensiveness aside, he’s not even remotely funny.

  • Anna

    This comment about “real men” is part and parcel of his sexism and homophobia. It’s not the worst thing about him, of course, but it’s yet another indication of the continued prominence of this type of thinking within the evangelical world. Saying it’s “obviously a joke” erases the very real harm done to men and women who do not conform to gender expectations.

    And of course he is homophobic. Of course he is sexist. You claim he isn’t, but his words and actions say otherwise.

    Warren doesn’t just oppose gay marriage, he’s compared it to incest and pedophilia … At his Saddleback Church, wifely submission is official doctrine: The church website tells women to defer to their husband’s “leadership” even when he’s wrong on important issues, such as finances.,0,4243781.story

    These are not views that he has hidden, and they are not erased by whatever acts of charity he may have done. There is nothing admirable about this man. He is just as loathsome as Dobson, Driscoll, Huckabee, etc.

  • Rich Wilson

    He has also made it clear that he is not homophobic and said expressly that he isn’t.

    That is quite possibly the funniest thing I’ve ever seen you post.

  • Edgar

    Real attention whores make a big deal from an insignificant tweet.

  • Rwlawoffice

    I agree not well said. Do you know that warren and his church actively work with homosexual groups fighting Aids and providing care to victims? Did you know that in 2009 he spoke out against the Ugandan law? And did again in 2012? He is also of the belief that homosexuals go to heaven just like any other believer in Christ.

  • Rwlawoffice

    Anna, with all respect there wasn’t one quote in that editorial you linked. His actions include what I list above. If you can’t say that giving millions to help victims of aids admirable, then I say again that you have lost all perspective regarding him.

  • Rich Wilson

    Cool. I’ve done those things too. Granted, my choir is a lot smaller. But you know we have this stumbling block on whether or not we ‘let’ same sex couples get married. By your definition that doesn’t make one homophobic. I’ll grant it doesn’t mean he hates gay people, or is afraid of them. But he fails to acknowledge that basic human right. To me that’s kind of like saying “I love and respect women, but I just don’t think they should be allowed to vote”.

    And of course we disagree on heaven. But that does raise an actual question. Does he think all gay people can go to heaven? Or just the ones who abstain from their ‘sin’?

  • The Other Weirdo

    Why is “wraps” in quotes? Is that code for something? Though, I must say, eating them burritos in Houston in the 90s, made in a place that should have collapsed under the sheer number of icons plastering the walls, now THAT was some good eating…

  • The Other Weirdo

    Yeah, you’re right. Just a joke. You know, just like hearing in conversation at an office, “You know why they treat us so poorly here? Because the President’s wife is Jewish.” Then when you complain, they say, “Oh, chill out, man. Just a joke.” Yeah, right. Just a joke. Unless you’re Jewish and from the Ukraine where Jew-bashing may not be physical anymore, but is nonetheless so endemic that nobody even notices it anymore.

  • The Other Weirdo

    I remember people in the Old Country(tm) routinely making antisemitic jokes in front of their Jewish friends, then expressly saying they weren’t antisemitic because they had Jewish friends.

  • The Other Weirdo

    Ah, okay, let’s not go there. Saying “only group X gets to decide whether you’re anti-X or not” is a poor way to make society. That’s what blasphemy laws are all about, 1 group getting to decide whether something is offensive or not.

  • Anna

    I can give you direct quotes, if you want. No one’s inventing these statements. Rick Warren has actually made them.

    Here he is comparing gay marriage to incest and pedophilia:

    RICK WARREN: But the issue to me is, I’m not opposed to that as much as I’m opposed to the redefinition of a 5,000-year definition of marriage. I’m opposed to having a brother and sister be together and call that marriage. I’m opposed to an older guy marrying a child and calling that a marriage. I’m opposed to one guy having multiple wives and calling that marriage.

    STEVEN WALDMAN: Do you think, though, that they are equivalent to having gays getting married?

    RICK WARREN: Oh I do. …

    Here he is comparing homosexuality to the urge to punch someone in the nose or take arsenic.

    Here’s what we know about life. I have all kinds of natural feelings in my life and it doesn’t necessarily mean that I should act on every feeling. Sometimes I get angry and I feel like punching a guy in the nose. It doesn’t mean I act on it. Sometimes I feel attracted to women who are not my wife. I don’t act on it. Just because I have a feeling doesn’t make it right. Not everything natural is good for me. Arsenic is natural.

    And here is at least one sickeningly sexist statement on women being submissive to men that can be found on Saddleback’s official website:

    The apostle Paul sets forth a concise discussion concerning the marriage relationship in his letter to the Ephesians. The Holy Spirit establishes the husband as the spiritual leader of the home, yet he is not to be domineering. The wife is to be respectful and submissive, but is not to be considered a
    door-mat. … “You wives must submit to your husbands’ leadership in the same way you submit to the Lord. For a husband is in charge of his wife in the same way Christ is in charge of His body the Church. (He gave His very life to take care of it and be its Savior!) So you wives must willingly obey your husbands in everything, just as the Church obeys Christ.
    Oh, what’s the use? You are homophobic and sexist just like he is. You won’t find anything he says wrong because you agree with his bigoted views.

  • MichaelBrice

    When I used the term ‘tubular sandwich’ I was not aware of the accisental symbolism, thanks for pointing it out!

  • MichaelBrice

    His ‘own’ money?

  • Rwlawoffice

    Saying you disagree with him on same sex marriage is keeping the issue in perspective I think. But saying he is homophobic because of that issue is in my opinion ignoring all that he does for the gay community. He was the person of faith that started a global incentive to treat aids victims with dignity and respect. Calling it a disease and not a moral issue. He reached out to those in need and mobilized millions of Christians and faith based communities to do the same. He has been doing that for over ten years now. In my opinion, a person who is homophobic and had an irrational fear and loathing for homosexuals would not do that.

    At the same time of course he believes the Bible when it says that homosexual behavior is a sin. That in my opinion does not make him homophobic. Just as believing adultery is a sin does not make him adultraphobic.

    As for homosexuals going to heaven, he believes, as do I, that this isn’t part of the requirement. What gets you into heaven is accepting Christ as your savior. That is all the test there is. Neither homosexuality nor homosexual behavior is a salvation problem. So if a homosexual even one that actively engages in the behavior has accepted Christ as that person’s savior, then salvation is assured.

  • Rwlawoffice

    Anna, of course we have a different take on those comments. What I see from your post is that unless a person agrees with you on same sex marriage, that person is automatically one that has an irrational fear and loathing for homosexuals. I disagree. I can tell you that the redefinition of marriage as being asked for by the gay community is a redefinition that can lead to the issues he raises. It has already started in this state where polygamy suits have been filed seeking to declare those laws unconstitutional due to the redefinition of marriage based upon only who you love. It has happened in Canada as well where similar suits have been filed. I am not saying these will be successful, but based upon the notion that the only thing that should be important in marriage is that you marry who you love and the state has no interest in saying otherwise, you have set the standard where this is a logical conclusion.

    As for the comments about women, you have cut off the second part of the requirement that goes for men. They are to love their wives as Christ loved the church, sacrificially and willing to lay down their life for them. Its hard to domineer or disrespect someone that you love with a completely selfless sacrificial love. So if both parties are following the Biblical ideal for marriage you have a women who respects her husband and man who loves his wife completely, sacrificially and willing to die for her. If that is disrespecting women and is sexist than we will have to disagree.

  • Rwlawoffice

    Yes his own money

  • Thackerie

    Groan! That’s just awful … and I’m sure I’ll repeat it whenever the opportunity arises. ;-}

  • Thackerie

    “It’s incredible to me that such a minuscule tweet could give you some
    sort of banner to gather behind and chant “Death to Rick Warren!””

    Gee, I must have missed all those calls for Rick Warren’s death. Can you cite some specific examples?

    Or at least one?

    I’d hate to think you’re no more than a liar for Jesus.

  • Thackerie

    In any case, he certainly is an odd ball.

  • Anna

    Ah, I see you’re one of those who has a problem with the word “homophobic.” All right, then. How about anti-gay? Rick Warren is anti-gay. He believes there is something wrong with homosexuality. He believes that it is wrong to have same-sex relationships. He opposes legal and social equality for gay and lesbian couples and their families. It has nothing to do with same-sex marriage specifically. It is his view that homosexuality is wrong and should be stigmatized, opposed, discouraged, etc. that makes him anti-gay.

    And of course you don’t see the church’s disgusting remarks about women as sexist because you agree with them. According to Rick Warren’s religion, women are supposed to be submissive to men. They are placed in a subordinate position to their husbands. They are not treated equally. They are not allowed to hold the same position, either in their own families or in their churches. You never did answer my previous question about whether the church you attend allows women pastors. I suspect they do not.

    I don’t care what rules the husbands are supposed to follow. They are still proclaimed to have a position above their wives: a superior position. Their wives are supposed to obey them. Women are not equal partners. Wives are supposed to do what their husbands say. Since you are a fundamentalist yourself, the repugnance of such inequality likely escapes you. But it it is no less sexist for a church to assert these things simply because you do not recognize them.

    As a woman, I would never join a religion that told me I was required to obey my husband and be submissive to him. We are not living in the 19th century. I cannot imagine that any woman with healthy self esteem would ever accept such a ludicrous, blatantly misogynistic worldview. I feel sorry for all the innocent little girls who are being indoctrinated to believe these (and other) awful things about gender and sexuality.

  • Rich Wilson

    And if the church decreed women above men, it would still be sexist. It’s just that very very few if any religions do it that way.

  • PhiloKGB

    The reason slippery slope arguments usually suck ass is exemplified by your rhetorical blundering here. Perhaps it’s true that same-sex marriage permissiveness has emboldened would-be polygamists, but their legal arguments are no more bolstered by the present “redefinition” than they were in 1967 after Loving v. Virginia. The inclusion criteria are different, as anyone with a mere shred of honesty must admit.

  • Rwlawoffice

    The more accurate way to state his position I believe is that he is anti homosexual behavior. It goes in line with the notion that sexual relations should be between a man and a woman in marriage and not outside of marriage and only with each other. Like with all things that the Bible calls a sin, it is based upon a belief that this protects us from harm.

    Of course, you would disagree with that. But that is far different than saying that he has a problem with homosexual people as people. His actions prove different. Unfortunately, as your post and indeed as the gay community as a whole sees it, unless people accept their behavior as being morally equivalent, people of faith hate them. It is that way with most behavior in our post modern, moral relativism society. And instead of acknowledging that people have the right to view behavior differently as being moral or not, you view it as bigotry.

    Let me give you a personal example- my daughter has engaged in behavior that I view as immoral. I expressed my concern for her and let her know that I viewed this behavior as harmful and that it would lead to her suffering. I also advised her to go down a different road. I said what I did out of love and concern for her, not to tell her what to do or keep her from having her way. She is an adult and makes her own decisions. However at the time she accused me of not wanting her to be happy. Unfortunately, I have been proven correct and she has suffered what I feared. She has now seen that the advice I gave was sound and that I did not want her to suffer the pain she has experienced.

    I tell you this because Christians view the teachings in the Bible as being given to us for our protection, to keep us from harm and to guide us to a wonderful life. It is not because we hate people. I know that the statement gets derided here but it is true that we are called to love the sinner and hate the sin. We fail at that alot, but it is what we are taught.

    As for women, my church does have women pastors. They do not speak many sermons, but they have vital and crucial roles in the church. They are in control of a significant recovery program that the church runs, they are active in oversees mission trips representing the church, they are involved in administration of the church. They may have different roles but they are viewed as equals.

    We will forever disagree with the Biblical view of women. But I would point out that the Bible teaches that women and men are equal before Christ (Galatians 3:28- There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave or free, there is no male or female, for all are one in Christ Jesus). If you will look at Jesus’ work with women and the multiple times they played a prominent role in the his ministry and teachings you would see an entire different view of Christian doctrine regarding respect for women. Men are taught to respect and treat women with honor or they will not see God’s favor. I understand that religion and men have distorted this teaching and that they have used some of the teachings regarding women having a different role in the home and the church as a way to control or demean women. But this is in violation of Christian doctrine, not in line with it.

    I always enjoy our conversations even though we disagree. Have a great day.

  • Rich Wilson

    The way you phrased it suggests that you might also be in favor of legislative restrictions on same sex activity. Not sure if that was your intent, or if you think the sex is a sin, but people should be able to make that choice, but not do it within marriage. I know it’s ‘sin or not-sin’ but unless you’re in favor of laws banning the activity, then what you’re doing is passing a law to stop one sin, but not the other.

    I’m honestly baffled that anyone in this day and age could hold onto the ‘harm’ aspect. The only harm is in people trying to change something so basic. And no it’s not like resisting the urge to have sex with a kid or punch someone in the face. There are countless cases of people growing up in deeply religious families convinced their desires are sinful, trying to live heterosexual lives, and miserable. The misery lasts until the family finally breaks up. How great is that for kids to have one mom and one dad, and part way through growing up the parents divorce because one of them is gay and can no longer be miserable living with perhaps a friend, but not a lover?

    I know we keep coming back to ‘interracial’ marriage (I hate the term ‘interracial’ because the human species comes nowhere near being more than one biological race). As recently as last year (two years ago?) a justice of the peace refused to marry a black/white couple, citing the ‘fact’ that children in ‘mixed’ marriages suffer.

    “Like with all things that the Bible calls a sin, it is based upon a belief that this protects us from harm.”

    64% of Americans state that if a newly discovered scientific fact contradicted the bible, they’d go with the bible. At least Judaism states that reading the bible literally, in contravention of observed reality, is heretical. There are many rules in the bible that made perfect sense for a society thousands of years ago. Some of them still do today.

  • Rwlawoffice

    Not all things that are sins in the Bible can be legislated. Alot are but not all can. That goes with consensual sexual relations. You can’t legislate most of that nor would i suggest it. You can some like prostitution for example. But for the most part that is a personal decision. So no, I would not suggest legislating against same sex activity between consenting adults. That being said, this is different than marriage. Marriage is a societal recognition of a union. Changing its definition has far more global consequences.