Christian Right Leader: Legalizing Gay Marriage Will Result in Another Civil War

What will happen if gay marriage becomes legal throughout America?

Correct answer: More gay couples will get married… and that’s about it.

What will happen if gay marriage becomes legal throughout America, and you’re the dean of a fundamentalist Christian law school?

Correct answer: The institution of marriage will be destroyed, families will cease to exist, churches will die a slow miserable death, a revolution will occur, a Civil War will begin, and the United States will implode.

At least that’s the gist of what Mathew Staver, dean of Liberty University’s School of Law, told Moody Radio’s Janet Parshall:

Basically marriage will be completely destroyed, families will be destroyed, children will be hurt by this and freedom of speech and freedom of religion, including in the pulpit itself, will absolutely be bulldozed over. This would open a floodgate of unimaginable proportions…

This is the thing that revolutions literally are made of. This would be more devastating to our freedom, to our religious freedom, to the rights of pastors and their duty to be able to speak and to Christians around the country, then anything that the revolutionaries during the American Revolution even dreamed of facing. This would be the thing that revolutions are made of. This could split the country right in two. This could cause another civil war. I’m not talking about just people protesting in the streets, this could be that level because what would ultimately happen is a direct collision would immediately happen with pastors, with churches, with Christians, with Christian ministries, with other businesses, it would be an avalanche that would go across the country.

… If we ultimately say as a court and if the country follows it that marriage is between two people of the same sex and it’s now how common sense, history and the Bible ultimately defines it, that has catastrophic consequences. That is staggering and it is actually something that we ought to be in significant prayer about because this could be the unraveling of the United States.

Overreaction much…?

The worst thing that will happen if gay marriage is legalized across the nation is that you’ll have to buy a few more wedding gifts. Everything else the Religious Right complains about is an exaggeration.

The way Staver freaks out, though, you would think every gay wedding ends by kissing the spouse and signing the divorce papers for a random Christian couple.

(via Right Wing Watch)

About Hemant Mehta

Hemant Mehta is the chair of Foundation Beyond Belief and a high school math teacher in the suburbs of Chicago. He began writing the Friendly Atheist blog in 2006. His latest book is called The Young Atheist's Survival Guide.

  • CBrachyrhynchos

    The American Civil Mar was a dumb idea in the 19th century, and an even dumber idea in the 21st century when the economy is even more interconnected, the urban South leans left and multicultural, and urban/ex-urban politics dominate regional ones.

  • http://www.youtube.com/user/GodVlogger?feature=mhee GodVlogger (on YouTube)

    The idea that this would “cause churches to die a slow miserable death” is *horrific*.

    Thus, I ask: is there anything we can do to make it NOT be so slow? :-)

  • Ibis3

    Looks around. Discovers no civil war, protests, no collisions or avalanches with pastors and churches.

    It’s been about a decade now. When is this supposed to happen? Or does civilisation fall only in America as a result of marriage equality because you’re God’s Country or something?

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Adam-Patrick/100000027906887 Adam Patrick

      Don’t try to understand the religious. Just nod and back away slowly.

      • nakedanthropologist

        Also remember to mark the exits with your eyes when you enter a room with one, too. Tip #2 to dealing with fanatics: always have an escape route.

        • http://itsmyworldcanthasnotyours.blogspot.com/ wmdkitty

          Eh, that’s good advice regardless, you never know when you’re going to need a quick exit.

      • pagansister

        Back away slowly with your hands—— in the air! :o)

    • http://www.holytape.etsy.com Holytape

      I’m assuming that you are writing from the wastelands that were formally known as Canada. Civilization there would have died years ago, but your Communist socialized medicine has been keeping it on life support. And thus keeping the inevitable domination by french- speaking beavers with muskets at bay.

      • Smarterthanyou

        Holytape, you have no idea how much better off Canadians are than the crashing USA and all it’s social and financial issues. Your ignorance and intolerance makes you an obviously biiter person. You lack any moral authority to condemn Canada with your off the charts commentary.

        • http://twitter.com/Twizabeth Kelly Shelton

          Pretty sure he’s being sarcastic….the whole domination by french-speaking beavers part should give that away.

          • Smarterthanyou

            There is very little sarcasm in Holytape’s reply to Ibis3. Beginning
            with “I’m assuming…wastelands, Communist, life support, etc etc…”
            The part about french-speaking beavers is a sure sign of bigotry against
            24% of the Canadian population.

            • coyotenose

              Uh, yes, he was being sarcastic and joking. It’s a very normal thing where we Americans poke a little fun at Canadians because we’re actually quite fond of them. Rolling up stupid stereotypes into a big ball of stupid is one way of doing that.

              • Smarterthanyou

                Using another group of people in sarcastic ways to “poke a little fun” and “rolling stupid stereotypes into a big ball” is counter-productive, not to mention no better than what the religious right does daily. Sweeping generalizations do very little to make a valid point.

                • coyotenose

                  First sentence: Changing your story and digging in deeper while using a logical fallacy and not grasping the basics of positive humor.

                  Second sentence: Complete nonsense unrelated to what the OP was doing.

                  You just want an excuse to be offended and can’t stand having simply been mistaken. Please go pitch a fit over a politician saying “Christmas Tree”.

                  Again, that username: Snerk.

              • http://itsmyworldcanthasnotyours.blogspot.com/ wmdkitty
            • avalpert

              Beavers constitute 24% of the Canadian population? I did not know that.

              • http://www.holytape.etsy.com Holytape

                Well it’s approximate. There are nine french speaking beavers in Canada, but there are in fact only 36 person/animals living in that frozen waste land. The last Canadian census is as follows.

                9 French speaking beavers
                6 English speaking beavers
                7 Moose
                5 men named Dave
                2 Davids
                2 Snowmen
                1 Wampa.

            • slantrhyme

              You might consider tweaking your handle a shade.

              • Smarterthanyou

                Why should I? It’s sarcasm. Can’t you read between the lines?

                • coyotenose

                  Sorry Honeybunny, you’re the only one here who has demonstrated that flaw in reading comprehension.

                • JohnnieCanuck

                  Stop digging that hole deeper, S.t.y. It’s getting embarrassing. You must not have gotten the memo about our self-deprecating sense of humour, eh?

                  Holytape, my name’s not Dave or David. Where does that leave me on your list? I did send in my census form last time, like any good Canuck would.

        • Thegoodman

          Are you new to the internet? Picking up sarcasm can be difficult via text, but do try harder please.

      • Bdole

        Take your stinking paws off me you dam-dirty beavers.

    • Stev84

      “Any day now”. The same as they have been saying for 2000 years

  • Dan

    My guess is that they weren’t too upset when the SC gave Bushie the election. This guy teaches Law? At a university?

    • nakedanthropologist

      It’s not a real university. It’s a playpen for the Christian right, where they can pretend to be intellectuals, devoted to factual truth. In reality, its a vast echoing cavern filled with whining, incense, and the blood of hated minorities.

  • Renshia

    What a calm and rational sounding person. It’s amazing, you can barely tell he’s completely bat shit crazy.

    Loving christian encouraging civil war, just what jesus would do.

    • wright1

      If you’re a biblical literalist, that is what Jesus would do. At least according to Matthew 10:21 and 35, 36. And since we know the word of god is inerrant and unchanging… /sarcasm

      • Renshia

        Oh come on, you know the truth. There is no sarcasm in that. What you speak is exactly right. The words may not change but interpretation changes according to the quoters design. You know, who do we want to stomp the shit out of today……

  • A3Kr0n

    There’s someone who is a DEAN at a collage is so STUPID that he can’t look at other places where gay marriage is legal, and see no civil war or imploding society? He should be fired, except his bosses are probably even MORE STUPID than he is.

    • Katwise

      Liberty University is not your usual sort of school. Look it up.

      • Stev84

        They are among the plaintiffs in a lawsuit where they aided in the abduction of the child a lesbian had with another women who then turned into a religious fanatic. When the plaintiffs are listed it says “Liberty University: a purported educational institution”. Sounds about right.

    • Rab Simpson

      It’s not a case of stupid (although I doubt he could count his way out of a wet paper bag) but of having an agenda that he wants to push. He’s a cunt basically.

  • DougI

    You gotta really hate gay marriage if you say you’re willing to don a uniform, commit treason against the United States, and kill people. I’m guessing that when he says ‘civil war’ (an oxymoron), he means he wants other people to fight it.

    • Octoberfurst

      Have you ever seen Staver? He’s a bit on the heavy side. (Understatement.) I don’t see him fighting for anything except being the first in line for dinner at a buffet restaurant.

  • TiltedHorizon

    “The rapture is coming! HURRAY, IT IS THE END OF THE WORLD!”
    “The rapture never came. BOOOO, IT IS NOT THE END!”
    “Gays want to marry? IT’S THE END OF THE WORLD! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES! THE HORROR!”

    Gotta love the religious, obviously level headed and sensible.

    • Mairianna

      I’m holding out for the inevitable wrath of God if same sex marriage is legalized nationally. You know, we’ll have some floods, tornadoes and earthquakes, flu epidemics, car crashes; internationally, there will be war and pestilence and tsunamis and the number of HIV positive folks in the world will be resurrected and inflated…etc. Oh, wait. That’s just the daily news.

  • Rab Simpson

    “Religious freedom”

    This is the sticking point. They want the freedom to be cunts towards anyone they don’t like and they’re whining about having this ‘freedom’ taken away from them.

    That’s not freedom where I come from. Where I come from freedom is having the freedom to do whatever you want to do up to the point where it infringes on someone else’s freedoms (unless of course we put this in a judicial context and a case can be made to justifiably remove a freedom from someone as punishment for infringing on the freedom of someone else).

    These pricks want to have their cake AND eat it.

  • Octoberfurst

    Yes Matt I can see that happening if gay marriage is legalized across the country by the Supreme Court. Millions of “God-fearing” Christians will take up arms and—and—and do what exactly? Start shooting their gay-friendly neighbors? Attack the White House? Attack the Supreme Court? How is this “civil war” supposed to play out? How will this “rip this country apart” since there are pro-gays rights people and anti-gay rights people in every state? Will areas secede? Which ones exactly?
    Now I know good-old Matt thinks that blood will fall from the sky, plagues will strike us and cats & dogs will get married if the court votes in favor of gay marriage. But look at the States that allow gay marriage. They have not become cesspools of depravity where Christians are burned at the stake. You know what changes? Nothing. People just go about their business as usual.
    Personally I am very tired of these bigoted religious-nuts always being so shrill when it comes to things like gay marriage. Gay marriage WILL be allowed all across this country eventually & there is nothing they can do to stop it. So go crawl back under the rock you came from Staver!

  • http://criticallyskeptic-dckitty.blogspot.com Katherine Lorraine

    I don’t even understand that. How is honoring more marriages going to destroy marriage as an institution? How is the creation of families going to destroy families?

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Adam-Patrick/100000027906887 Adam Patrick

      They think “family” means “mom and dad”.

  • Raising_Rlyeh

    “to the rights of pastors and their duty to be able to speak”

    I know that they think they have a mandate from god to preach, but who gives a damn about this “duty.” It seems that many of these pastors have a form of a messiah complex and feel that they will “save” the country. Of course they just want to save the country from anything not like them.

    Also, why do those on the far right automatically go to the idea of civil war? It seems to be a fetish for them. “If you don’t listen to me I am going to start a war over this.” Your side lost the civil war just let it go.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/John-Evans/1017276335 John Evans

      I wonder if this is the John Wayne/Rambo fantasy as it manifests in a ‘man of peace’?

  • ortcutt

    Framing this as a religious freedom issue is simply a huge lie. There is no state in the country where pastors are required to perform any marriages that they don’t want to perform, and under our First Amendment free speech protections, they are free to speak out against marriage equality as much as they please. I really wish people like Mathew Staver would stop lying or at least feel some shame about the lies they tell every day.

    “Whoever can be trusted with very little can also be trusted with much, and whoever is dishonest with very little will also be dishonest with much.” – Luke 16:10

    • http://www.flickr.com/photos/chidy/ chicago dyke

      expecting the religious to feel shame about lying? hahaha, you’re funny.

    • http://twitter.com/WoodwindsRock Emma

      Actually, in a way it *is* about religious freedom. Just not in the way these nutjobs claim it to be. It’s about religious freedom in that not all religions, not even all Christians, disagree with same-sex marriage. To have same-sex marriage banned because a certain brand of Christians think it should be (supposedly) based off of their religion is a restriction on the religious freedom of everybody, and beyond that a direct violation of the First Amendment saying “no law shall be made respecting an establishment of religion”. Of course that part of the first amendment is never mentioned by the religious right, they act like it’s not even there. But what they don’t realize – or perhaps what they don’t care about – is that true freedom of religion is not possible without a firm separation of church and state.

      It’s sad that they’ve got a bunch of religious people so fooled into fighting against the very freedom of religion they claim to be so for.

      • ortcutt

        I don’t think any Court anywhere has, will, or would find marriage inequality to be an Establishment Clause violation, although the Establishment Clause does mean that proponents of marriage inequality can’t make explicitly religious argument in favor of such discrimination.

      • Quintin van Zuijlen

        If any church wants to”marry” a same sex couple, they can go ahead. The state may not recognize it buy that’s also part of the establishment clause: no church can tell a state what to do.

        • Stev84

          Exactly. The “some churches want to marry same-sex couples” argument is extremely weak. Churches can already do that. The issue here is civil marriage, and the more people learn that distinction the better

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-Harrison/23417637 Michael Harrison

    I don’t see this as a prediction so much as a threat. They might not have the ground strength they think, but they’ll make a good go at it, and when the fight sours, the crazier ones will pull a Koresh and try to frame the government for their deaths.

  • http://www.holytape.etsy.com Holytape

    If teh Gays is powerful that it can destroy all marriages and literally bulldoze every pulpit in this country, shouldn’t we be trying to appease it? I mean, how can we fight them if George Takei can cause markets to collapse with a blown kiss? Or when just a picture of Neil Patrick Harris riding a white horse will make every woman a lesbian because they know their heterosexual boyfriends or husbands will never ever be that cool. We, as a society, are helpless in the face of such an awesome threat. Our only hope is maybe if we held parades for teh Gay, they would take their rainbowy fury elsewhere.

    • coyotenose

      Soooo we should have no other gods before the Gay, never take the Gay in vain, never worship false Gay, and keep the Gaybath holy?

      *shrugs* I’m good with that.

      • http://www.everydayintheparkwithgeorge.com/ Matt Eggler

        “In the beginning, Gay created the heavens and the earth. The earth was without style and color, and drabness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of Gay was hovering over the face of the waters.
        And Gay said “Let it be Festive,” and it was festive. and Gay saw that it was fabulous.”

    • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/ Kevin_Of_Bangor

      I’d turn gay for NPH. He is that cool.

      • http://www.facebook.com/tuibguy Mike Haubrich

        Sure, I would kiss him and hold hands and stuff; but i wouldn’t, well you know…

  • http://absurdlypointless.blogspot.com/ Bubba Tarandfeathered

    If anything is going to happen it will most likely be a revolution in divorce law, and the divorce lawyers will win in the end. Well at least the non-fundamentalist christian ones.

  • MariaO

    I would so love to hear a debate between this man the Swedish (no-longer-state) church bishop of Stockholm. She is married to another woman…
    Of course Staver’s typ of xiantity is better for us – he frightens away many more people and exposes what it is all about – control and power.

  • nakedanthropologist

    Staver is a moron. If I chose to marry another chick, then the real consequences will be felt only by my hypothetical wife and I – Staver wouldn’t even be aware of it. I think the linchpin in fanatical Christianist thinking is that there is no neutral – they are unable to conceive of a world where they and others (who do not share each other’s beliefs) coexist harmoniously. That, and the fact that buffoons like this are finally being called out on their bigotry in not only the media, but societal opinion and the ballot box. Feel free not to marry another dude Staver – no one will force you. Feel free to believe that being GLBT and in a same-sex relationship is a sin – no one except you and others like you give a shit. But the moment you try to suppress the civil rights of another group of people – be it due to sexual orientation, race, creed or what have you, then you become a bigot. And you Staver, [you] are currently the mayor of McBigotsville, i.e. Liberty “University” (which is as much a university as kindercare is to the army’s basic training).

    • http://www.flickr.com/photos/chidy/ chicago dyke

      again i feel compelled to remind everybody: it’s about the money.

      these are people whose hands would shrivel, or so they believe, if they had to work at a real job. they exist because there are a lot of bluehairs and homophobes in backwaters that watch too much TV and listen to too much hate radio and believe that things like “prayer cloth” will make them money (my grandmother was one of them; she gave $100/mo to TV preachers before my mother took over her estate and stopped it).

      be afraid! is a powerful message, and plays upon parts of the brain that can often overwhelm all reason and logic. gobbels said it best (para): all you have to do is tell people they are being attacked, and you can get them to (go to war). in this case, the war is against equality for homosexuals.

      but the chief hater shouters/grifters know they are losing. it’s no surprise they are turning up the volume and polemic; donations are probably going down at a frightening rate. imagine how scared you’d be, if you’d never worked an honest job a day in your life, to realize that your grift was drying up, dying, and losing popularity with each passing second. that is where this sort of rant is coming from, more than “belief” or “concern for the family.”

    • smrnd

      I completely agree with you that most of these religious nuts have no concept of neutral; the notion of any sort of neutrality is anathema to them – either the government is a theocracy or else it’s a Satanic anti-Christian dictatorship. They don’t want co-existence with people who are different than them – they *want* total all-out war, though I suspect that when it comes to ‘taking up arms’ their laziness and inertia will get the better of them, or at least I hope so.

      Also, places which persecute homosexuals are typically shitty places to be, and places where homosexuality is more accepted are generally better.

  • Stevie B

    I think a lot of religious homophobia is motivated by subconscious or conscious, but secret, homosexual desires. Such as the classic case of Ted Haggard. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Haggard

    • http://yetanotheratheist.com/ TerranRich

      But… Ted Haggard is completely heterosexual!

      • allein

        Now I’ll have that song stuck in my head all afternoon!

      • http://www.flickr.com/photos/chidy/ chicago dyke

        eddie long agrees, one hundred percent.

    • ReadsInTrees

      Ted Haggard wasn’t GAY, he was just tempted by Satan.

    • coyotenose

      A lot, not nearly all. I’m inclined to believe the theory that the majority of it is based in misogyny: Woman Bad, Therefore Man Who Act Like Woman Also Bad.

      That Gay =/= effeminate doesn’t cross the gaps in their circuitry.

  • http://www.tumblr.com/blog/his-divine-shadow His Shadow

    Apparently when reasonable people disagree part of the process is to reach common ground and go from there…

    What common ground is there with raving lunatics whose world view is invalidated by the mere existence of Canada? Putative authority figures who engage in this kind of rhetoric are uninterested in opposing viewpoints. Joe LubeCity may be unaware that Canada has had marriage equality for a decade and absolutely none of the dire predications made by the religious right have come to pass; it is inconceivable that the dean of a law school is unaware of same.

    And if Mathew Staver is unaware of the existence of functioning democracies with religious freedom that also grant legal recognition of same sex couples which also happen to share a border with the USA, the last job Staver should have is the dean of a school.

  • Stevie B

    I think a lot of religious homophobia is motivated by subconscious or conscious, but secret, homosexual desires. Like the classic case of Ted Haggard.

  • Anitchrist

    Bull-fucking-shit.

  • Persephone

    “This would be more devastating to our freedom, to our religious
    freedom, to the rights of pastors and their duty to be able to speak and
    to Christians around the country, then anything that the
    revolutionaries during the American Revolution even dreamed of facing.”

    Two words for you: Fred Phelps.

    Fred Phelps walks free today. Fred Phelps speaks what he wants, where he wants. He is not imprisoned or censored. In the free exercise of his religion, Fred Phelps says and does things that are unspeakably vile and taunts people in the depths of their miseries, and nothing is done to him by the government.

    So, you were saying?

    (Paraphrased from Fred Clark over at Slacktivist, on this same web site. You should check him out. He’s a good guy.)

    • Baby_Raptor

      Fred Phelps is the leader of a Left-wing cult. Of course the leftist Obama administration isn’t going to touch him! They probably get together every Saturday for ritual Christian baby sacrifices!

      (Sarcasm. Though if you listen to Faux News, everything I said is true.)

      • Persephone

        Oy, don’t remind me.

      • coyotenose

        Yep, they obsess over Phelps’ having once been a registered Democrat. Pathetic.

        I once saw an ultra-Conservative Christian write into a paper that Christmas was a pagan holiday and not to be celebrated, because that was devil worship. Backed up with historical citations and Biblical quotes. The dumb fucks called him a “stupid liberal”. As much as I hate using the word in relation to political positions, what they did there and with Phelps was the very definition of bigotry: automatically assigning all negative characteristics to the target group.

  • busterggi

    Didn’t these folks say the same thing about interracial marriage not too many decades ago?

    • coyotenose

      The EXACT same things.

      • http://itsmyworldcanthasnotyours.blogspot.com/ wmdkitty

        B-b-but this is different in some way I cannot define, but I just know it, so there!

        /snark

    • Bdole

      In a couple of generations when gay-marriage is widely accepted, the Christianists of that future era will claim they were on board the whole time by quoting the very same “liberal” Christians that they go around excoriating and excommunicating as heretics, today.

      Just to head off their future bigotry: Android citizenship, NOW!

    • Stev84

      And before that they said the same things about no-fault divorce, easier divorce in general and the end of coverture. Covorture too was once considered essential to marriage and ordained by nature. The arguments are pretty similar.

  • http://www.facebook.com/matt.bowyer.75 Matt Bowyer

    I stopped reading after I saw “Liberty University.”

    • MichaelBrice

      Liberty University, lol, reminds me of a Bob Marley song:

      Me say: de Babylon system is the vampire, falling empire,
      Suckin’ the blood of the sufferers,
      Building church and university,
      Deceiving the people continually,
      Me say them graduatin’ thieves and murderers;
      Look out now: they suckin’ the blood of the sufferers.

      (Babylon System, Bob Marley).

      Graduating thieves and murderers……..true dat!

  • John of Indiana

    I seem to recall the same feces-tious (that’s not a misspelling) argument being made against interracial marriage. Seems to me same-race marriage and the Union survived just fine…
    And I LIKE the idea of churches dieing a “slow miserable death”…
    And just who exactly is going to fight this “civil war”? The people who have more important things on their plate than who’s marrying who against the forces of “Gawd’s Chosen”?

    S’Yeah, Right…

  • Robin

    Didn’t churches and right-wing conservatives make the same claims about every single civil rights issue? Emancipation, women’s suffrage, equal rights, etc. Well society is still here.

    Okay, well ending slavery did lead to a civil war I suppose… Horrific as that was, though, the country and the world are better for it in the long term.

  • walkamungus

    “marriage is between two people of the same sex and it’s now how common sense, history and the Bible ultimately defines it”

    Funny, I missed the bit in the court decisions and the legislation and all where it said that the Bible needed to be rewritten. It’s gotta be here…[shuffles paper]…no, over here…[shuffles more paper]…Huh.

  • Jinx

    It does not surprise me at all that the dean of Liberty University’s School of Law would believe that social collapse is a natural result of legalizing gay marriage. According to most conservative Christians, no greater moral calamity could befall the nation.

    However, his eager talk of a civil war is somewhat surprising. Who would he and his allies go to war against? Us? The courts? The current, democratically-elected government of the United States? The voices in his head?

    Violent rhetoric is a large part of politics, and I believe that this talk of a revolution stems from Staver’s delusional fantasies.

    While I cannot be for sure, I can try to make some assumptions about what Staver’s alternate world (the world we would live in if the Supreme court approves gay marriage) must look like:

    Pastors are arrested frequently for anti-gay sermons, and social progressives sentence Christians to the lion’s den. Sex education in schools resembles a certain (infamous) scene from Brave New World. Heterosexual families no longer exist because gays have “converted” most of the straight people and convinced them to abandon their spouses and/or children.

  • trj

    “… freedom of speech and freedom of religion, including in the pulpit itself, will absolutely be bulldozed over.”

    Translation: People are going to say they’re ok with gay marriage. This frightens and offends a bigot like me tremendously, ergo free speech and democracy have been violated, since people should not legally be able to hurt my sensibilities like that.

  • trj

    Come on, gays. It used to be you’d bring on the Apocalypse with your sinful ways. But now all you’ll cause is civil war?

    You need to gay it up. I’m sure all the fundies will thank you, seeing as they can’t wait for the Apocalypse to happen.

  • Miss_Beara

    Marriages that last a few hours to less than a year is fine and dandy but those darned gays getting married? Even the ones that have been together for over 10 years? TEH HORRORS!!1111 There goes marriage! There goes families! There goes the United States that was founded on Christianity!!!!111

    I can’t wait till it is legal in Illinois. The Cardinal is already having a conniption fit.

  • http://friendlyatheist.com Richard Wade

    Nine states have legalized same-sex marriage, the earliest 8 1/2 years ago. There are plenty of Christians and gay people in those states. So, when is the shooting going to start? How long do we have to wait?

    I haven’t heard of any gun battles between the Christian Revolutionary Army and the Forces of the Gay, no Gay Brigades surrounding churches, shooting RPGs into the windows and Christians spraying machine gun fire back out, no Christian Commandos besieging the Gay Green Zone with mortar fire, nothin’. So far, this is one dud of a civil war. Not even a skirmish with hand guns and Molotov cocktails.

    I have to wonder if Mr. Staver will actually be disappointed when it finally dawns on him that there will be no bloodshed.

    By constructing an analogy parallel to the American Civil War, he has cast his Christian homophobe cohorts as the Confederates, the marriage equality supporters as the Union, and a nation-wide legalization of same-sex marriage as the Emancipation Proclamation. Apparently he is comfortable playing the role analogous to the Southern supporters of slavery.

  • Reginald Selkirk

    Interfaith clergy coalition opposes gay marriage bill

    A coalition of Roman Catholics, Muslims, Mormons, Missouri Synod
    Lutherans and conservative Anglicans has written to Illinois lawmakers,
    urging them to reject any legislation that would extend marriage to
    same-sex couples.

    Surprise surprise.

    Dr. Zaher Sahloul, president of the Council of Islamic Organizations of
    Greater Chicago, said abiding by the Quran’s definition of marriage as
    the union between a man and a woman does not mean Muslims don’t support
    the gay community.
    “Not supporting gay marriage doesn’t mean we
    discriminate against LGBT,” he said….

    Of course denying rights to a group means you discriminate against them. LOGIC FAIL.

  • http://twitter.com/TychaBrahe TychaBrahe

    Gay marriage is like the Affordable Care Act.

    If you increase the number who have access to healthcare via a static supply of providers, you *will* have longer waits for service, you *will* have a harder time seeing a doctor for a non-emergent condition.

    If you increase by 10% the number of adults who are legally entitled to marriage, it *will* mean longer waits for wedding venues, it *will* mean that some service providers will be overbooked, and you may not be able to hire the cake decorator or the florist of your choice. (Fortunately, it’s easier to bring an untrained potential florist up to speed than an untrained potential neurologist.)

    The difference between some people and others is that we can look at the way that providing equality of access will hurt those of us who already have access and say, “Screw my privilege. Everyone should have access. Suck it up and deal, sweetheart.” And we get over it.

  • pagansister

    Really? the Christian Right has absolutely nothing else to get pissed off about? NO ONE is forcing them to “marry” anyone of the same gender, NO ONE is forcing them to attend a “gay” wedding, NO ONE is making one of their ministers marry same gender couples. There are so many more things to worry about in this world besides same gender couples marrying. BTW—who will be fighting the next Civil War? IF they are that frightened, perhaps they should move to one of the African countries where being gay can get you killed. They probably find that totally acceptable. If they all leave for a country that kills their gay men and women, then they won’t have to worry about their little world of goodness and faith and hate being interfered with. (would also leave more room for the rest of us “liberals”.). They can preach their black hearts out and not have to worry about “gay people” ever being allowed to live, never mind marry.

    • http://itsmyworldcanthasnotyours.blogspot.com/ wmdkitty

      “perhaps they should move to one of the African countries where being gay can get you killed. They probably find that totally acceptable”

      Worse. They’re the ones who’re over there pushing the death penalty for gays, in the first place!

      • pagansister

        Naturally. Isn’t that their job? They seem to think so—-

        • http://itsmyworldcanthasnotyours.blogspot.com/ wmdkitty

          TBH, I’d happily trade them to Uganda if Uganda will send their gays here in return.

  • Baal

    The clip reminds me of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5QBuJla5do but isn’t quite as funny. It’s from the 1980′s movie Airplane!, “Assume Crash Positions!”

  • avalpert

    The argument was a lot stronger that invalidating anti-miscegenation laws would lead to a civil war than legalizing gay marriage.

  • jose

    How cute the religious threatening the whole nation if they don’t get their way. It’s almost like when republicans threaten to shut down the government.

    • pagansister

      The Republicans certainly tried—–

  • allein

    My friend’s sister just married her girlfriend. They are both ministers.
    As far as I can tell, the world has not ended.

    • http://itsmyworldcanthasnotyours.blogspot.com/ wmdkitty

      Congratulations to the newlyweds!

  • SeekerLancer

    Boy when this happens Mr. Staver is going to be really disappointed.

  • gg

    Reminds me of what they said about inter-racial marriage in the 50s and 60s.

    • Miss_Beara

      I said this to a guy that was anti marriage equality and an evangelical christian. He claimed that it wasn’t the same because they were different genders.

      He didn’t get it and refused to.

      • ostracario

        And because they’re black. No choice. Born black. Gays on the other hand…”they got a choice. They can choose to be perverts or choose to be normal.” (That’s ‘them’ saying that, not me. I’m quoting what I read a bigot say about us. The Gays. Got it?)

        • Miss_Beara

          And then it devolves to “well, if men can marry men and women can carry women, then what? You can marry your dog? Your chair? An airplane? The Eiffel Tower? Your brother or sister? OMGZ downfall of humanity!!!!!”

  • Aspieguy

    Does this a**hole really have such a low opinion of Americans? I seriously doubt that we would fight a civil war over providing marriage rights to 3.3 percent of our population. Only the fundie crazies believe this.

    • ostracario

      Let’s face it. They might “revolt” by sending a strongly-worded e-mail to someone or join an online boycott of something but most people are too apathetic to get up off their couch to vote. A revolution would take way too much effort. **Pass the chips!!**

    • pagansister

      Perhaps they consider this just like 1860, and were part of the ones that said that Black people were inferior, thus slave material due to their lack of intelligence, so they fought on the Southern side in the Civil War. They also found some “proof” for slavery in their Holy Book too—right along with how women were to be subservient to their husbands/fathers etc. Since the slaves were freed, they then found it acceptable to deny those folks of color the same rights as “white” folks. They lost that, so now we have to deny homosexuals their civil rights. Soon they might run out of “causes”—unfortunately I doubt that.

  • http://www.laughinginpurgatory.com/ Andrew Hall

    It’s done nothing but rain frogs here in Massachusetts since gay marriage was legalized.

  • ostracario

    ATTENTION: Marriage equality has been the law of the land in Canada since 2005 and none of these alleged “terrible things” happened here. No civil war. No mass exodus of heterosexuals who felt threatened by gays getting married. No camps where we force heterosexuals to accept the homosexual “lifestyle.” None of it.

    GOOD NEWS: Our divorce rate has gone down. More happy, married couples means more money being pumped into the economy. Hotels, wedding planners, florists, halls and other wedding venues, they’re all making more money. Win-win!

    • +1

      Not just in Canada, also in Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Iceland, The Netherlands, Belgium, Spain, Portugal, Argentina and Mexico City.
      All of which seem to be doing okay.

      • pagansister

        Good God Man! Don’t let that news get to the Christian Right! How in the world can those countries have been enhanced by such moves? :o)

  • RevJames

    But none of this happened in Canada where we legalized equal marriage many years ago. And none of the horrific predictions regarding equal access to the forces happened in either country (Canada 1990′s, USA 2010′s) either. So wrong AGAIN opponents of freedom and equality for all.

  • All_for_it

    In legalizing gay marriage, would it mean that gay people can get married in a church? Because that is not the Catholic religion. Of course there can be divisions of Roman Catholicism, so is that what this would be? Or is it politically recognized only?
    I doubt my local priest would marry a gay couple. I do not understand the need for acceptanceinto the Catholic Church

    • allein

      We’re talking about civil marriage. The church doesn’t have to marry anyone they don’t want to.

  • All_for_it

    Now I am not against gay people at all. I believe in equal rights for all human beings.

    But if they’re going to say that Catholics have to accept gays into the church…well then why can’t they make it a law that women can be priests and hold mass.

  • Bad_homonym

    At the end of the video they state they are going to pray about this! Lets watch how that fails! If it could help their cause wouldn’t it?

  • Media Mentions

    What kind of boggles me is that if the universities “policies” extend to existing faculties, why is a proposed law school any different? Following a simple train of thought, either the university’s existence is illegal or a Law School should be allowed to operate. Either way, here’s the Vancouver Sun’s take on this story: http://www.pressdisplay.com/pressdisplay/showlink.aspx?bookmarkid=2AV9XD6EPSI7&preview=article&linkid=52a05b7f-1796-4a4c-a571-b6f1e6f0ddf9&pdaffid=ZVFwBG5jk4Kvl9OaBJc5%2bg%3d%3d

  • http://www.facebook.com/john.brown.7965692 John Brown

    Gays want war with Christianity, Islam, and Judiasm, and what else can be done? We don’t want it but it going to have to happen, they have already declared it. Diplomacy has just made it worse. They smell blood an want to see it flow, but they are going to find out that the blood they smell their own. We have never lost to the forces that would “kill God”, and we won’t loose this one either.

  • winxporn

    a short Civil war is good. if we study history, aftermath of civil war is beautiful peace gained


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