Memo to Scott Stantis: Tim Tebow Is No Jason Collins

Scott Stantis, a conservative cartoonist for the Chicago Tribune, drew this in response to Jason Collins‘ coming out:

The idea, of course, is that the media is celebrating Collins for telling the world he’s gay, while they were mostly annoyed by Tim Tebow for telling the world he’s Christian.

If that sentence seems weird to you, that’s because the cartoon makes no sense.

Collins did something no male in the NBA (or several other popular leagues) had done: He came out as gay while still playing professionally.

Believe it or not, there’s no shortage of Christians in any sporting league. Need evidence? Just listen to someone on the winning team during a post-game interview.

When Tebow told the world he was Christian — more Christian than other Christians, really, with his eye black messages and on-field prayers — it was annoying. It doesn’t take “courage” to proudly proclaim, “I’m in the majority!”

Not to mention, Tebow chose his religion; Collins didn’t choose his sexuality. Tebow wanted you to become a Christian; Collins isn’t trying to (in fact, can’t) make you gay.

Finally, Christianity of the sort that Tebow preaches is the reason people like Collins have such a hard time coming out. Tebow hasn’t said anything disparaging about Collins, but evangelical Christians have no doubt acted like they’re being oppressed by the “gay agenda” while at the same time being the oppressors.

The main thing both players have in common right now is that they’re each looking for a team to play on — a team that will judge them for their skills and not what they say or do outside the game.

(Thanks to @InkeddMommy for the link)

About Hemant Mehta

Hemant Mehta is the editor of Friendly Atheist, appears on the Atheist Voice channel on YouTube, and co-hosts the uniquely-named Friendly Atheist Podcast. You can read much more about him here.

  • Gus Snarp

    Well, that and the media hardly shied away from Tebow. It’s not like he didn’t get lots of coverage, and lots of questions about his faith. No one would have cared about his saying he was Christian, or leading a life absent the partying one often associates with NFL athletes. It is the proselytizing and the associated notion that no one else is the right kind of Christian that’s annoying. That and the non-stop media talking about it. The whole premise that the media didn’t like Tebow’s religiosity is faulty. They loved it, and he’s had press coverage far disproportionate to his professional career.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=sports+illustrated+tim+tebow+cover&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=F2SBUbelCfOn4AOihIGICg&ved=0CDYQsAQ&biw=1920&bih=946

    • CBrachyrhynchos

      Oh yes. Tebow became the media darling of sports media reporting, an attempt to create a faux scandal around his religious views by repeatedly shoving microphones and push-polls into the faces of fans who were more concerned with win/loss ratios and offensive yards. It was a cynical sports media who attempted to spin opinions about Tebow and even more idiotically, his on-field performance into a referendum on Christian faith.

  • http://twitter.com/scott_hurst scott_hurst

    What about when Collins celebrated his sexuality after every successful play? Oh, wait…

    Tebow re-affirmed his Christianity every time he had a camera pointed his way.

    • snoozn

      Absolutely. Until Collins starts dancing around the field with rainbow flags after each play, there is just no comparison. The “liberal media” never got on Tebow for calmly stating “I’m a Christian.” They got on him for making a big dramatic show of it all the time.

      • http://www.facebook.com/al.lucard.5 Al Lucard

        Matthew 6:6
        But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

        They seem to forget that Jesus tells THEM to “keep it in the closet” .. OH the irony!

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=663221180 Scott Barker-Dennill

          Al, is it hard being that vapid and empty in the skull? Anyone who takes anything from that hilarious work of fiction is truly, truly foolish and stupid. You wear the hat well though, congrats! ;)

          • Gus Snarp

            I think you missed the point.

          • carby

            Scott, did you note that Al expressly acknowledged the *irony*? There I find the necessary framework for appreciating his post appropriately.

            I don’t know whether Al’s a professing Christian or not. I do know I agree with the point he’s making, which holds true regardless of his own beliefs or unbeliefs.

            Context: I believe in nothing supernatural nor “divine” nor “mystical.” I’ll gladly take labels like naturalist, humanist, agnostic, empiricist, rationalist. And I hardly see Al Lucard’s remark as vapid—even if he personally *does* believe in the Bible as the literal word of God (a much more complex question, which lies *far beyond* the scope of this thread, and on which I’ll not engage.)

            As a naturalist, humanist, agnostic, whatever, I likewise have NO problem confronting Biblical literalists with their own scriptures (which used to be *mine* as well), challenging their hypocrisy. And in occasional Facebook posts I do discuss scriptural points (which I know VERY well from my own fundie days!) to prod into similar inconsistencies, hypocrisies, and failures of critical thought.

            The more scripture and mainstream theistic ideology a rationalist, empiricist, secular humanist knows and understands, the more s/he can use teachable moments to converse usefully with Biblical believers by drawing attention to =their own professed beliefs.=

            So I appreciate Al’s post. He duly draws attention to the believers’ own professed ideals. That demonstrates the imagination, creativity, and intellectual agility to use those very scriptures as a perfect tool for cranking up some good ol’ Cognitive Dissonance 101. When shared sincerely and candidly, without smug contempt or disdain, putting forth those facts CAN INDEED provoke some genuine thinking on the part of *some* true believers who—as I was in my teens and twenties—sincerely DO wonder about some of those things, and who honestly DO say to themselves, “Huh—I hadn’t thought about that. Hmm. OK, I’ll come back to it.”

            Perhaps the only position worse than that of
            • an arrogant, dogmatic, condescending theist is
            • an *equally* arrogant, dogmatic condescending atheist.

            The atheist is worse because s/he does at least have some grasp on a broader sense of the real world, and thus might reasonably be expected to demonstrate a more enlightened attitude—but instead maintains the fundamentalist, absolutist, self-righteousness of Pat Robertson and his ilk.

            To quote Al: “OH the irony!”

    • http://www.facebook.com/stella.peah Stella Peah

      A person’s sexuality is different from their religion you cannot compare them in a sentence and pretend as if they are the same because they are not. In you sentence you stated and i quote “What about when Collins celebrated his sexuality after every successful play” i don’t believe your sentence was clear.(Did you mean that Collins celebrate his sexuality privately or publicly). I would also like to state that Collins just came out as an openly gay man no one except his family had any prior knowledge of his sexuality and neither you nor I know if he celebrates his sexuality after every successful play or not. May i also ask what exactly do you mean when you say “celebrate”?

      • http://twitter.com/scott_hurst scott_hurst

        “Did you mean that Collins celebrate his sexuality privately or publicly”

        I mean that “he didn’t, at all… OBVIOUSLY.” Sarcasm.

        For Collins to be comparable to Tebow he would have needed to be performing a drag show at courtside after every basket for the past several years.

        • http://www.facebook.com/stella.peah Stella Peah

          I am very aware that you were speaking in a sarcastic manner. Disregard my previous comment may i just ask what you mean when you say “celebrate”?

          • http://twitter.com/scott_hurst scott_hurst

            In this case, “celebrate” just means “a public demonstration of.”

            Any activity that would make obvious his sexual preference to a courtside onlooker…

            • Stella Peah

              Well thank you very much for clarifying that i was actually quiet confused.

  • http://twitter.com/LadyBugz528 Kris10

    There is no such thing as an oppressed Christian in the US.

    • rwlawoffice

      Tell that to the florist being sued by the Washington state AG for standing up for her beliefs on same sex marriage. Tell that to the catholic businesses that are being threatened with business ending fines for not wanting to pay for birth control in violation of their beliefs. Tell that to the photographer in New Mexico who was fined for not taking pictures at a same sex commitment ceremony in violation of her beliefs. Tell that to the counseling student in Michigan who was expelled from school for referring a student to another counselor who could better give her treatment when she came for same sex relationship advice.

      You can try to argue that this is just responding to discrimination, but it is Christians being prosecuted and terminated for their beliefs.

      • Stev84

        Oh fuck off you piece of shit troll

      • smrnda

        On ‘catholic businesses’ – the law should determine what coverage is
        adequate for insurance, and all employers should be held to the same
        standards, with their own religious, personal or other beliefs being
        treated as irrelevant. Can an employer exclude treatment for mental
        health care if they are a scientologist? I don’t want to live in a
        county like that. Yes, there is a bit of a conflict, but the law should
        decide in favor of the person with less power (the worker) over the
        person with more (the employer.)

        On the counseling student, if
        you can’t handle counseling same-sex attracted people, then you can’t do
        your job. Become a Christian counselor.

        On the rest, it’s just little hissy fits being thrown by Christians who don’t realize the rest of us have had to do the same things for them for the longest time. Ever hear of a photographer who refused to take pictures at a Christian wedding?

        • Houndentenor

          That entire mess is what finally convinced me that we are going to have to go to a single payer system and separate employment from health insurance. Yes, it took that much. I argued against it for years. But the idea that the company I work for might get to decide what is covered or not covered by my insurance based on THEIR religious beliefs is the last straw. No thanks.

          • smrnda

            Yeah. Funniest thing is that many of the people who back an employer’s right to decide what medical treatments you get are probably also opposed to single payer, so they really shot themselves in the foot over that one. Plus, it’s kind of hard to make a case that private sector employers are going to give you more options than the government with the whole “I shouldn’t have to cover that” going on.

            I’ve been overly fortunate not to work for anybody who is opposed to contraception, but yeah, this shows the huge flaw with employer sponsored health care.

      • LesterBallard

        Yeah, we know you think you can get away with anything if you say it’s your religious (particularly Christian) belief.

      • http://www.facebook.com/brian.westley Brian Westley

        “Tell that to the florist being sued by the Washington state AG for standing up for her beliefs on same sex marriage.”

        Stop lying, she’s being sued for having her business break the law and refuse to serve a gay couple.

        “Tell that to the catholic businesses that are being threatened with business ending fines for not wanting to pay for birth control in violation of their beliefs.”

        Actual religious organizations do not have to pay for it; commercial business do, regardless of the religious beliefs of the owners.

        “Tell that to the photographer in New Mexico who was fined for not taking pictures at a same sex commitment ceremony in violation of her beliefs.”

        Again, she refused to serve the general public. It’s no different if a photographer against mixed-race marriage refused to photograph a mixed-race ceremony.

        “Tell that to the counseling student in Michigan who was expelled from school for referring a student to another counselor who could better give her treatment when she came for same sex relationship advice.”

        But she was supposed to do it.

        “You can try to argue that this is just responding to discrimination, but it is Christians being prosecuted and terminated for their beliefs.”

        Stop lying; these are all examples of ACTIONS, not beliefs.

      • RobMcCune

        Washington state AG for standing up for her beliefs on discriminating against same sex marriage.

        Tell that to the catholic businesses that are being threatened with business ending fines for not wanting to pay for birth control health insurance to be used a the employee’s discretion in violation of their beliefs.

        Tell that to the counseling student in Michigan who was expelled from school for referring a student to another counselor who could better give her refusing treatment when she came for same sex relationship advice >was having a severe crisis.

        but it is Christians being prosecuted and terminated for their beliefsactions to the detriment of others.

        Fixed.

        • http://www.facebook.com/scudda Jude Eckenrode

          Well played again.

        • http://www.facebook.com/stella.peah Stella Peah

          Technically speaking Kris10 said and i quote “There is no such thing as an oppressed Christian in the US”. By stating this she didn’t make any specification all did was state a fact in which she believed to be true. While Rwlawoffice stated facts from articles she/he researched.If Kris10 had been more clear in her sentence then maybe Rwlawoffice would have commented differently. RobMcCune you should probably read carefully next time you wish to make a comment.

          • RobMcCune

            I did read Rwlawoffice carefully, and noticed their descriptions of the events were light on pertinent details, namely what the people involved actually did. Claiming those people were facing consequences for their beliefs glossed over their actions that incurred said consequences. Rwlawoffice was doing more than simply stating facts, but stated them to support a conclusion. In so doing they left out what the person actually did focusing instead on why they did it. In all the cases I edited Rwlawoffice did not mention how the actions of those involved had affected other people. In doing so their actions broke the law, or in one case a professional code of ethics. Those facts relevant to the cases that Rwlawoffice mentioned severely undermine the point that they were trying to make. So in order to quickly make the point that Rwlawoffice’s facts did not support what they think it supports I quoted them with relevant passages changed to include the relevant details.

          • Baby_Raptor

            Stella, Rwlawoffice has been around awhile. He’s a known liar who will claim anything so long as it fits his story of the moment. His two big things are persecution and being pro-forced birth…He’ll make any story come back around to one of those two, and then whine about how hard Christians have it because they don’t get to enshrine their bigotry into law.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=628665833 Bill Santagata

        Businesses do not have religious beliefs. End of story.

        • Pepe

          But.. But.. Businesses are people too!

      • Jordan Sugarman

        Persecution means being singled out for mistreatment. What you’ve listed is a bunch of people looking for special exceptions because of their beliefs, and failing to get them. That’s not persecution.

      • Carmelita Spats

        1. Tell that to the Scientologists who have to pay for psychiatric medications when they don’t believe in psychiatry because it’s ALL about conquering your “inner aliens”.
        2. Tell that to the Jehovah’s who don’t believe in blood transfusions and have to pay for them.
        3. Tell that to the Raelians who believe in their OWN intelligent design theory and can’t teach the controversy to YOUR kid.
        http://www.rael.org/home
        4. WHAAAAAH! I’m a persecuted Christian. I don’t believe in gay marriage but divorce/remarriage is OKAY even if Jeebus equated divorce/remarriage with ADULTERY…[Matt 5:31-32], [Matthew 19:3-6, Jesus quoted Genesis 2:24]. My favorite: “To the married I
        give charge, not I but the Lord, that the wife should not separate from her husband (but if she does, let her remain single or else be reconciled to her husband) and that the husband should not divorce his wife.” [1 Corinthians7:10-11]
        5. Guess that “florist” doesn’t make ANY money off the “remarriage” business. Hypocrites. The day you live your Christian witness to its ultimate consequences is the day I will gladly open wide this yammering maw for a mouthful of Savior. Praise! Until then,
        STFU.

        • Judy B.

          Tell that to the people who group all Christians together that their comments are like saying because one a-hole rapes or beats a woman, all men rape women!

          • GCT

            Xians are not persecuted. Get over it.

      • DavidMHart

        Actually, I’m pretty sure all of those people were sued/fired for their behaviour. You have the right to believe that God wants you to shun homosexuals. You do not have the right to deny homosexuals the same services you offer everyone else in the course of your business.

        You can understand this very easily if we swap ‘Christianity’ for ‘Aztec human sacrifice cult’. You have the right to believe that Huitzilopochtli wants you cut out the still-beating heart of a terrified prisoner. You do not have the right to cut out anyone’s heart, no matter how strongly you believe that Huitzilopochtli will turn out the light of the sun if you don’t.

        Now that was an extreme example, and Christianity does not tend to lead people to carry out human sacrifice (or at least, most versions of Christianity don’t). But Christianity does tend to lead people to cause some harms to other people, be it by treating homosexuals as second class citizens, denying women their reproductive rights or whatever else. And no one should be allowed to cause others harm because their religion tells them they must. Beliefs are absolutely protected by the principle of freedom of religion. Actions are protected only to the extent that they do not infringe on others’ rights.

      • Crazy Russian

        Put an interracial couple or a devout Christian in the position of the client and see how quickly your attitude towards the discrimination changes. Who gives a shit what your personal and “sincerely held” beliefs are? If you offer services to the public, then either deliver or shut down. It’s that simple.

      • Houndentenor

        What do her beliefs have to do with selling someone flowers?

        There’s no such thing as a “catholic” business unless it’s a church. Churches are exempt. Businesses are not. They are providing access to insurance, and hardly ever are they paying for that insurance. What prescriptions someone receives are none of their damn business.

        Discriminating against customers and clients is illegal. Or pershaps you wouldn’t mind if businesses refused to provide you with goods and services because they didn’t like your religion or “lifestyle”?

      • decathelite

        Pro hac vice – you can represent the florist in WA even though you may have not passed the WA state bar exam, as long can find a firm to attach to and you are licensed and in good standing in your home state.

        Your mouth spews words but you don’t have the balls to back it up; come on Alex, represent this woman! Take on the WA attorney general!

      • GCT

        I do so love it when bigots come right out and whine that they aren’t being allowed to discriminate against the people they hate and explicitly claiming that bigotry is part of Xianity.

      • DesertSun59

        Here’s what I would say to the florist being sued in Wash State. It is ILLEGAL to do business in that state and to discriminate the way they discriminated. Your personal religious beliefs belong in your home and in your church but they do NOT extend to doing business in a public place. The same goes for the photographer in NM and to the councilor in MI who did the same thing. You are not ENTITLED to use your religion to discriminate in public. If you believe your religion trumps law you belong in an Islamic country where that sort of thing goes on. This country is not your personal slate for doling out your smug discrimination based on your PERSONAL tribal belief system. This is a secular nation, based on secular law. Your Bible doesn’t in any way trump secular law. Period.

        That’s what I would say to those people. I would also say that to YOU, too. Christians who use their beliefs as weapons need to be put in their place.

      • http://twitter.com/KatyWompus Katy

        So if I, as a very outspoken LGBT activist and feminist with strong religious beliefs that support that, decide I’m not going to sell to extremely devout conservative Christians, that would be okay even though I’m running a public company taking corporation tax benefits?

        • http://profiles.google.com/marc.k.mielke Marc Mielke

          How could you tell? Even the most devout conservative Christians have learned to ‘pass’ as normal people! They don’t always wear the fish necklace on the outside, or park within sight of you.

          The homophobic florists are pretty much gonna get theirs and it will be their own damn fault. First of all, they’re in a field that employs (stereotype) a large number of gay men (seriously, it’s like being a homophobic interior decorator!); more realistically, they’re in an area overwhelmingly supportive of gay marriage and just labeled themselves the bigot’s choice.

      • Carpinions

        “You can try to argue that this is just responding to discrimination, but it is Christians being prosecuted and terminated for their beliefs.”

        That was their choice. I thought conservatives understood the whole decisions-have-consequences thing, especially where US law was concerned. Other Christians accept gay people, although this past week we’ve heard that those Christians:

        A) aren’t real Christians
        B) are young, inexperienced morons that will regret supporting gays
        C) are aiding and abetting sin against god

        So it seems to me that not all Christians think discriminating against the LGBTQ community is acceptable. And note that if the woman running that flower shopped believed differently, as other Christians do, the problem would never have occurred. Who is right: Those that discriminate against homosexuals, or those who don’t? Who is right? Christians that think slavery is OK, or Christians that don’t?

      • Baby_Raptor

        Keep denying reality so you can martyrbate, you lying sack of shit. Everyone around here knows your game.

        Being forced to not discriminate is NOT being forced to violate your belief. Selling flowers or taking pictures of a gay couple is NOT affirming their marriage; nor is it taking part in it in any way.

        Further, Catholic insurance plans do not have to pay for birth control. This is a lie that you, and many other people, keep perpetuating in order to keep crying that you’re so abused. Insurance is a part of an employee’s compensation; a part that they pay for with their own money and work. THEY pay for the birth control if they decide to use it. Nobody is forcing people who don’t want to use birth control to pop pills.

  • ortcutt

    Have they somehow forgotten “Tebowmania”? The media loved Tim Tebow and there was an incredible amount of news coverage about him (and about his Christianity). For a time, ESPN was TimTebowTV. In fact, I’ve read many, many articles about the religious beliefs of athletes over the years. Nobody told them to shut up. What would satisfy Christians here? Nothing would, because they have a martyr complex and need to feel aggrieved.

    • Gus Snarp

      Tim Tebow: 8 Sports Illustrated covers.
      Jason Collins: 1 Sports Illustrated cover.

      But somehow giving one cover story to the first male, active, professional athlete in the U.S. to come out as gay means Christians are mistreated. Isn’t it remotely possible to them that the problem with Tebow is at least partly media fatigue from seeing him on the cover of SI so many times, as well as everywhere else in the media?

      • Conspirator

        Shhhh, facts don’t support the Christian Persecution Complex. Stop that.

  • decathelite

    The cartoon really needs two more panels, one with Tebow responding to the reporter saying, “No”, and one with Collins telling the reporter “No”.

    • HA2

      That would be perfect.

    • carby

      BRILLIANT.

  • Reginald Selkirk

    And all those times Collins wore rainbow coloured eye-black.

    • LesterBallard

      I hope that’s a real thing and it shows up on field soon.

      • Crazy Russian

        It would be interesting to hear how many screams of persecution and “gay agenda” there would be if that were to happen.

  • Jasper

    One of those groups is persecuted… the other is not. Of course, “the other” in this case thinks persecution is being disallowed from persecuting everyone around them, and not being able to retain their privilege they’ve enjoyed for so long at the expense of everyone else.

  • Free

    The issue really is about the tone toward faith in general. You have made some valid observations in your post. However, the cartoonist seems to be drawing attention at the cultural sentiment towards people of faith. There is a real shift in our perception of morality. That is the ongoing debate. What do we base our morality on – the feelings of the “day” or something more foundational. SInce we can not agree, we will continue the trend to “do what is right in our own eyes” but it will not be without consequence unfortunately. Grace to you all.

    • Gus Snarp

      So what’s the tone in general toward the Reverend Reggie White? How about toward Kurt Warner? Tony Dungy? Any of the myriad NFL players who pray on the field? Virtually every American Olympic medalist who was interviewed on NBC who thanked God?

      The media, the American people, the liberal elites, even we hardened, militant atheists, have no problem whatsoever with you choosing to live a life of faith, nor with any of the people I’ve mentioned above, who’ve been very public about it. What’s objected to, and the reason some people take issue with Tebow, is the proselytizing. Tebow wants to convert people, which is basically telling the vast majority of Americans who are already Christian that they’re the wrong kind. Not to mention the Jews, Atheists, Buddhists, and Muslims. It can be downright insulting. Yeah, live your faith, but set a moral example by being moral yourself.

      See also: Matthew 6:5-6

      Matthew 7:1-5, etc.

    • ortcutt

      Troy Polamalu is a devout Greek Orthodox Christian. He makes the Sign of the Cross after every play. I’ve never heard anyone say anything negative about this EVER. On the contrary, he is lauded for his religiosity.

      http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sectionfront/life/troy-polamalu-says-kala-christougena-280856/

      Don’t give me this nonsense about a negative tone toward faith. Nonsense.

      • http://www.facebook.com/matt.bowyer.75 Matt Bowyer

        Because Polamalu is actually a good football player. Plus, I’m a Steelers fan, so I’m biased.

      • LesterBallard

        Yeah, imagine if a Muslim player rolled out a prayer rug and kneeled towards Mecca. “TERRORIST!”

      • Houndentenor

        And that harms no one. It’s his right to express his own beliefs. it doesn’t bother me at all.

    • Edmond

      Morality isn’t about “feelings” or “doing what one thinks is right”, it’s about doing what you can to minimize the harm and suffering felt by others. It certainly has nothing to do with one’s sexuality. If there’s a shift in our social perception of morality (and I agree there is) it’s because people are realizing this. They’re realizing that we can build our moral foundation based on how peaceful and cooperative we want our society to be, and that this has nothing to do with any faith. We don’t practice morality by trying to make invisible beings happy with our love-life choices.
      If you were able to recognize that Hemant made some valid observations in his post, then why don’t you recognize that these reasons are WHY people of faith may be feeling negative cultural sentiment. Hemant pointed out that the gay community is not trying to make the Christian community gay, nor to shame them and make them social outsiders. The fact that the Christian community doesn’t repay the favor to the gay community is the reason they’re getting a bad rap. They’re doing it to THEMSELVES.
      The days when religious groups could point at people different from themselves and call them “abominations” are ending. Speaking of consequences? A diminishing cultural sentiment is the consequences of such behavior.

    • Sven2547

      “What do we base our morality on – the feelings of the “day” or something more foundational.”
      What a silly false dichotomy.

    • GCT

      Get this through your head – you are not oppressed or persecuted. There is no rampant anti-Xian sentiment in this country. You are not being harassed or forced to give up your beliefs. What you are seeing is a loss of your privilege to treat all others like shit. Sorry, but you don’t get to have special privileges that the rest of us don’t get. And, your threats won’t keep that privilege.

    • Baby_Raptor

      The bible is not a foundation. The bible is a horrible book full of nightmarish stories and commands with a few good things thrown in. And not a single bit of it is unique to the Hebrews who wrote it. Every “value” it teaches was being practiced elsewhere before Jesus showed up; every claim about him was stolen from other mythologies.

      So if you’re going to claim that we have to listen to some Bronze Age fairy tale for advice on how to run our lives, at least get a source that doesn’t have so much bad in it.

      Though how you can honestly be okay with listening to a book that advocates rape and slavery for advice is beyond me. Those are basic “No thanks” things that would make any decent person toss the bible out on it’s spine.

    • David S.

      One could also wonder whether we should base our morality on love for our neighbor or stand on pure legalism. I was under the impression that Jesus was pretty clear about that.

      • GCT

        Yes, he was, but not in the way that people tend to think. In the sermon on the mount, he advocated a much more strict adherence to the OT laws than most people understand. It wasn’t about letting love dictate what is moral, it was about trying to follow the laws so perfectly that evil thoughts were tantamount to disobedience. ‘Did you look at a woman and have any sort of lust? Well, that’s just as bad as committing adultery with her.’ It’s legalistic to the core.

        • David S.

          Harvesting food on the Sabbath is legalistic to the core?

  • Jon

    They are both unimportant on the professional sports stage. However, one is indeed heralded for his “bravery” for making a choice to stand out while another is mocked frequently for standing out for his faith. There is nothing that Tim Tebow has done that deserves the negative press that surrounds him. He at least had an incredible collegiate career that sparked interest in him. Jason Collins, on the other-hand, is trying to get some notoriety before his playing days are behind him. I truly believe this was a self-serving media grab. I wouldn’t be surprised if this nobody is given a spot in the Hall of Fame for his “courage”. As to the comment about Tebow choosing his faith vs. Collins not choosing to be gay. We all have the ability to choose our path. I think Tebow chose the better option for eternity.

    • grindstone

      I can choose my religion, my career, my field of study, my friends, my hair color, my hobbies…… but no, I can’t choose my sexuality. So thank you about worrying about eternity for me, but I choose to love my fellow human beings in the here and now. I can assure that I’ve made the better choice.

    • observer

      If by choosing our path you mean choosing our sexuality, then, no, we don’t all have the option to choose that.

    • JET

      Maybe Jackie Robinson would have made it into the Major Leagues and Hall of Fame sooner had he chosen to be white.

    • Houndentenor

      What negative press has Tebow received? His coverage was overwhelmingly positive. And no Collins did not “choose” to be gay. No one does.

    • RobMcCune

      Showing off in public is “standing for faith,” while telling the truth is a self serving media grab.

      #ChristianLogic

    • Antinomian

      When did you choose not to be gay?

    • Guest

      What a load of crap.

    • GCT

      Yes, I’m sure that Jason Collins woke up one day and decided to be gay, face all kinds of negative societal pressure, potential harassment, and all kinds of other ills just so that maybe he could grab the media spotlight and maybe be in the hall of fame. Right…But, hey, when in doubt just throw some threats around.

    • Max Supernova

      “Jason Collins, on the other-hand, is trying to get some notoriety before his playing days are behind him.”

      [citation desperately needed]

    • Baby_Raptor

      What he deserves to be mocked for is the way he chooses to showboat his faith every opportunity he gets. How is that not a “self-serving media grab” like you’re claiming Collins is pulling?

      Oh, wait. You agree with Tebow. That makes it right in your eyes. Got it.

      Oh, and RE eternity? I’d rather fry in hell forever than worship the sick sadist that the bible describes. But have fun being a brain-washed asskisser to a genocidal maniac.

  • Steven Bloomfield

    When Collins starts strutting around in assless chaps after every basket then he’ll be as annoying as tebow.

    • LesterBallard

      Again, I want that to happen.

    • Houndentenor

      My spidey senses tell me that Tebow and Collins have more in common than that cartoon suggests. ;-)

      • GCT

        Like what?

        • Gus Snarp

          Like being gay.

    • Max Supernova

      All chaps are assless. If they had asses on them, they would be pants.

      #pedantic

  • Conspirator

    I’ve seen some guy in the NFL that actually has the lines from Leviticus that are often used by the anti-gay crowd tattooed on his arm. That’s particularly funny since there’s a line nearby in Leviticus that clearly states tattooing is forbidden. Anybody know who that guy is off-hand? I’d love to see a reporter question him about that sometime.

    • Sids

      I so wish a non religious player would get the anti-tattoo verse on his arm (even as a fakey) to see if the Christians would all flock to him without ever bothering to read what the verse says.

      • Carpinions

        That works both ways though. There would surely be atheists that would see that tattoo and jump to the conclusion he’s a zealot off the field.

    • http://www.facebook.com/lenoxus Chris Morrow

      I have never, ever believed that a particular homophobe “must be” secretly gay because of the degree of their protest, but I think I’d make an exception for this guy. I mean, seriously? Is it somewhere he would read on a regular basis? It just saddens me that someone would be that desperate for erotica that they would tattoo it on themselves instead of just going to a used bookstore and/or Internet. And such awful erotica too!

  • sam

    The difference is there’s nothing shameful about being gay.

    • Crazy Russian

      To be fair here, neither is being Christian. The problem here is that the author is simply lying: Tebow was never silenced or censored for his ridiculous self-righteous farce. Just go to Google Images and enter “tim tebow cover” to see quite the opposite.

      • sam

        I’d argue holding a belief that objective morality can be ontologically derived from a divine essence or command is ethically shameful; that proposing an atemporal, immaterial cause can elicit temporal, material effects is intellectually embarrassing; that believing a sensus divinitatis can provide warrant for epistemic claims is mentally bankrupt and worthy of ridicule. And while no two xians may agree on any or all of xian dogmas, sufficient numbers do to make the general claim that affirming xian beliefs is shameful.

        • Sids

          If the definition of shameful is ‘inflicting someone with shame’ then it clearly isn’t in Tebows case. He doesn’t seem to be suffering any shame a all. I agree that it should be shameful. But in the current society it isn’t.

          • Sids

            Though I suppose with that interpretation of shameful, being gay actually would be shameful in many cases (but shouldn’t be).

  • http://www.facebook.com/roger.bauman Roger Bauman

    Collins is on the cover of Sports Illustrated. Has Tim Tebow ever had that honor? Well, yes. He’s also been on the cover of GQ and he was twice on the cover of ESPN. Nevertheless, it shows the media bias against Christians. Somehow.

  • dunnave87

    The problem with tebow is he needs to understand that when he is at work, that’s what his focus should be on. He walks the walks and it is known he is a Christian. He can simply tell reporters guys ” if its not related to the team and football no questions”. Its plenty of christians in the NFL who live like it but understand that once you on that field and in that locker room its about your team.

  • JET

    The difference is that one is standing up for equal rights under the
    Constitution while the other is bragging about being one of the chosen few.

  • Stev84

    If Tebow had just said that he was a Christian and then kept the mentions on it within reason, that would have been fine. But he took it over the top and made a ridiculous spectacle out if it.

  • http://friendlyatheist.com Richard Wade

    So, the media has snubbed and ignored Tebow’s public religiosity? Really?

    Mr. Stantis has given us another glimpse into the bizarro alternate universe that so many conservatives and the entire Republican party live in. You know, the one where:
    -the only people who vote in the U.S. are white males,
    -all women want to be controlled and subjugated by those males,
    -nobody wants abortions available for any reason,
    -all people of color are welfare-abusing loafers,
    -wealth equals virtue and virtue equals wealth,
    -nobody wants marriage equality for same-sex couples,
    -all people consciously and deliberately choose their sexual orientation,
    -freedom of religion means freedom for Christians to do whatever they want,
    -polls are valid if they favor them and invalid if they disfavor them,
    -science is valid if it doesn’t clash with their religion and invalid if it does,
    -the truth is not what’s so, but whatever lie enough voters will believe,
    -the internet, which can instantly catch them in their lies, does not exist.

    I think in almost every corporate ceo’s office and in every Repblican politician’s office there’s a dimensional portal where they can slip into that bizarro universe to think the thoughts they want to think.

    • Crazy Russian

      Sadly, some of us live in that bizarro alternate universe, the infamous Bible belt. I can recall probably every single of the above points being argued for by live, breathing people, whom I happen to know personally.

      Well, maybe not the one about Internet, but I remember a lovely lively discussion in our classroom about how Georgia should secede from the Union right after the presidential election didn’t turn out exactly how they wanted. You see, We the People voted for Romney, and the Electoral College is an example of the oppressive dictatorship the U.S. government is. The reaction to my timid objection that the popular vote went to Obama as well made me regret I ever said anything instantly.

  • LesterBallard

    Scott Stantis, suck my sweaty balls.

  • jeannieinpa

    There are a lot of athletes praying out there but we usually don’t know it because they simply pray without changing their position. Tebowing is so extravagantly obvious, it looks less like genuine prayer and more like posturing — getting attention, looking holier than everyone else.

    • Carpinions

      Yes and no. How many baseball, basketball, and football players point at the sky after a score? How many sign the cross before making a shot? How many thank god (on very rare occasion Allah even) after a win? How many baseball pitchers wear crosses around their neck?

      Tebow’s pose and “John 3:16″ eye black is “original” so to speak, because not everyone did it, and he had been doing it since early in his career. Part of the reason it’s seen as deriding him is because a few opposing players copied him to taunt, thus the conservative Christians take that mocking, make it out to be the media’s creation, and then cry “THEY WILL NEVER TAKE OUR FREEDOM!!!”

  • http://www.facebook.com/eukota Darrell Ross

    He has quite a skewed view in most of his cartoons. Many of them require that you watch Faux News and be ignorant to believe.

  • The Vicar

    This is why I’m not so concerned about the reports that the Koch brothers are trying to buy the Tribune. It has always been conservative, and has dipped into the loony region more than once already. (Most notably during the Bush presidencies, both of them, when some of the really horrible stuff the Bushes were saying and doing were mysteriously not reported in Chicago.)

  • Houndentenor

    Were people all that annoyed about Tim Tebow? I heard a lot of people lauding him, a few jokes and of course the internet meme of “Tebowing”, but no one stopped him from speaking. I remember him as a media darling who got a lot of publicity well beyond his actual ability as a player. I’m sure someone somewhere said something mean about him. Someone always will. Mostly I heard offers (from men and women) to deflower him whenever he was ready for that. LOL Hardly persecution.

    • allein

      I don’t follow football; probably the only reason I ever heard of him in the first place was because there was a post here about that stupid anti-abortion Superbowl commercial kerfuffle.

    • Gus Snarp

      “I remember him as a media darling who got a lot of publicity well beyond his actual ability as a player.” – Well, I think for people who know football and aren’t evangelical Christians, that was the annoying part.

    • Carpinions

      Sports analysts were talking about him well before he hit the pros. He was a very open Christian in his college days, so conservatives saying there was a backlash are of course lying. The majority of the media coverage of him has been favorable to some degree, and at worst they’ve taken light jabs at him. I have yet to see a huge amount of hate foisted on him simply because he’s Christian. Why? Because so many sports figures are Christian as well. This political cartoon has no premise to work with unless Stantis invents it, which is what he did.

  • SeekerLancer

    Except the media was all over Tebow for his religious displays so this comic artist is completely full of it.

    Also if he can’t see the difference between coming out as gay which really has nothing to do with the person’s career and using professional sports to essentially proselytize, he’s an idiot.

  • good_creon

    And of course, ESPN has talked about practically nothing BUT Tebow for the past 2 years. So you know, that.

  • Justin Miyundees

    There might be a comparison if, as Tebow always knelt to thank his imaginary friend, Collins had knelt to blow his – from here on to be known as “Teblowing”™.

  • wyocowboy62

    Does not the bible to not pray in public?

    • http://www.facebook.com/lenoxus Chris Morrow

      I believe this is correct. Bibles only pray when no one is looking at them.

  • http://gadlaw.com gadlaw

    It’s hard to sympathize, after all Christianity is a choice.

  • http://www.facebook.com/benjamin.guido.1 Benjamin Guido

    Anybody with any respectable philosophy will hold that either both Tebow chose his religion and Collins his sexuality or neither chose either. Whether any choosing is compatible with such things also being determined is debatable, but don’t try to make a freedom divide between religion and sexuality. Respect people and their ability to shape themselves, or simply deny them that power.

    • GCT

      Anybody with any respectable philosophy will hold that either both Tebow chose his religion and Collins his sexuality or neither chose either.

      Wait…what? This is a false dichotomy. It’s entirely possible that one or the other made a choice.

      That said, the evidence is very strongly in favor of Collins not choosing. One could make the case that Tebow did not choose either, since most people are inclined to take on the religion they were brought up in, but it’s not an innate trait like being gay is.

    • nojinx

      Why would it matter if you and I choose our sexuality or if it is something we are born with?

    • http://www.facebook.com/jason.fischer.5496 GutterName

      Anybody with any respectable philosophy will hold that your post is nonsense.

  • Carpinions

    Never put it past a conservative to, while seething to make what they think is a biting point, miss the actual point completely.

    The persecution complex of the religious is a funny thing. Odds are we have only begun to see just how deeply absurd it will get.

  • Just_some_Catholic_guy

    I just wanna get my opinion out there. When you look at this cartoon and see how both athletes have been treated as of late it is very true. This cartoon is a critique on controversial topics today, religion and homosexuality/same-sex marriage, but also on the media moving from one story to the next.

    I will start with Tim Tebow, being Catholic AND a Jets fan, I know being a Jets fan is hard to believe, the media didn’t want to hear a single word out of Tebow. When the media was constantly putting the camera on Tim Tebow it was because he was doing things that every football expert, scout, coach, etc said he couldn’t do. He was a sports phenomenon, and when he got his chance to play in Denver it was another huge surprise not just to John Elway and John Fox, but to every sports analysis and the media went and ate it up for the publicity. When Tebow was in a post game interview he says, “First and for most I would like to thank my Lord and Savior, thank my team, the fans, etc.” just like a lot of other athletes like Ray Lewis say at the start of their interview. What the media then did was twist it and said, “Are the Broncos winning because of Tim Tebow’s faith?”. Of course not! As for “Tebowing”, it is again another thing that the media twisted to their own advantage. A lot of athletes go down on one knee or say a quick prayer of thanks after a game or touchdown. But since Tebow did it they made it a thing. When Tebow went to the Jets, which I thought was a horrible move on my Jets part, he didn’t play so there was no reason to put the camera on him. The only time he got on camera was to ask if he thinks he will start a game any time soon after Mark Sanchez played horribly, game after game after game. So now the media doesn’t want to talk to Tebow after being released from the Jets and getting quotes from coaches in the CFL that he isn’t good enough to start there.

    For Jason Collins to be the first active professional player in the 4 big league sports, NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, that is a very big deal. Because no one has done it before. Do I care much about it? Not really, because I don’t think a person’s sexual orientation defines you and Jason Collins is still Jason Collins. But it is a big step in the sports world and for the LGBT community. Now that this has happened, the media is going to jump on it and ask him all these questions about holding this to himself for so long and all that jazz. And people are gonna want to know his responses. Especially coming from an athelete where you are in so much pressure and under a microscope it takes a lot courage to put yourself in a vulnerable position like that.

    But it also takes a lot of courage to speak out for your religion. Especially in a world today where religion is accepted as widely as it was 50 years ago and there has a been some sort of anti-Christian movement lately. And to respectfully disagree with the author of this article you are not saying “I’m in the majority” because the majority don’t fully live out their faith as a Christian and living the faith and evangelizing to people. Tim Tebow was simply doing what he is called to do as a Christian. You are not called to hold your religion to yourself. You are called to go forth and evangelize to the nations and bring the Lord to those around you. Regardless of the other person’s views on religion, even if that means being persecuted or rejected or simply talked badly about. And him being on national television simply allowed him to get a wider population.

    It is taking a lot of courage in me to write this comment, because I don’t know how people are going to take this, and quite frankly I’m scared to get characterized and criticized for being a Catholic and speaking on behalf of my beliefs. So do I think this cartoon is wrong in any way shape or form? Not at all, because looking at both athlete’s careers RIGHT NOW it is completely true. And if you actually took the time to read all of this I really do appreciate it and thank you for that. God bless.

    • JohnCantor

      *Groan* :D

      Actually, a pretty thoughtful post. I just don’t see it. I see Christians going “I’m a Christian!” And a bunch of ‘em flock around going, “praise the Lord!” And you got the ol’ “true Christian” thing going on, and the antiquated “call to evangelize;” in a world where ya gotta be under a rock in a fallout shelter to have not heard “the gospel.”

      • Just_some_Catholic_guy

        I never said that it was a bad thing that Jason Collins came out. I said it was a big step for the sports world and for the LGBT community. I personally don’t think it is bad to be gay, and the Catholic Church teaches that it isn’t bad. I completely agree with you that people be in “the closet” for being gay, straight, Christian, Jewish, Muslim, etc.

        • GCT

          I personally don’t think it is bad to be gay, and the Catholic Church teaches that it isn’t bad.

          Yes, they do.

          • Just_some_Catholic_guy

            Being homosexual isn’t wrong in the eyes of the Catholic Church. Having feelings and loving someone of the same sex isn’t wrong and is not a sin. You cannot control your feelings. What the Catholic Church teaches is that the homosexual ACT is what is wrong. Looking at the Catechism of the Catholic Church, CCC, this is what it says.

            CCC 2357: Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.”142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

            CCC 2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

            CCC 2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

            To be homosexual is not a sin but once you have engaged in a homosexual act it is a sin. You can ask any priest or religious in the Catholic Church and they will agree.

            • http://gamesgirlsgods.blogspot.com/ Feminerd

              Oh, I get it. You don’t hate gays, you just don’t want them to find love and happiness, because anal sex, fisting, fellatio, cunnilingus, and dildos are icky. Or something. Because sex is for making babies, except when it isn’t (old people, infertile people, etc). How is it “loving” to say that you don’t choose your sexual orientation, but you can never act on it to find a life partner, so life’s just going to suck for you?

              I just don’t get it. How can you claim the Catholic position is anything but bigotry?

              • GCT

                Well said.

                The church is trying to have it both ways. They want to claim they don’t support discrimination, but then they turn around and tell gays to be miserable for life. They also fight against gay marriage and gay rights. The whole, “They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided,” is absolute and utter bullshit.

    • GCT

      When you look at this cartoon and see how both athletes have been treated as of late it is very true.

      No, it’s not true. No one is dismissing Tebow because of his faith. In fact, most people fawn all over it. Give it up. You’re not persecuted in the country.

      What the media then did was twist it and said, “Are the Broncos winning because of Tim Tebow’s faith?”.

      And, that’s a bad thing? The media fed the religious privilege of people by jumping all over the Tebow bandwagon. Give me a break. You are not persecuted in this country.

      But it also takes a lot of courage to speak out for your religion. Especially in a world today where religion is accepted as widely as it was 50 years ago and there has a been some sort of anti-Christian movement lately.

      Oh fuck off. There is no widespread anti-Xian movement in this country. You are not persecuted, and it does not take courage to “come out” as part of the privileged majority of this country. How many athletes are out there saying, “I don’t thank god for this victory, because there is no god”? Come back when you have the slightest bit of perspective on the religious privilege oozing from you.

      And to respectfully disagree with the author of this article you are not saying “I’m in the majority” because the majority don’t fully live out their faith as a Christian and living the faith and evangelizing to people.

      This is more bullshit wrapped up in a No True Scotsman fallacy.

      You are not called to hold your religion to yourself.

      Except for the Bible verse that tells you not to pray in public and make a spectacle of yourself. But, whatever, this is all one big No True Scotsman fallacy. But, please tell us all how you and you alone know the true meaning of Xianity and the Bible and how you came across these powers of being infallible, which I’ve been told is a power reserved for your god.

      Regardless of the other person’s views on religion, even if that means being persecuted or rejected or simply talked badly about.

      You are not persecuted. Give it up and get over it. And, while you’re at it, lose that ugly religious privilege.

      It is taking a lot of courage in me to write this comment, because I don’t know how people are going to take this, and quite frankly I’m scared to get characterized and criticized for being a Catholic and speaking on behalf of my beliefs.

      You’re not being criticized for being a Catholic and speaking on behalf of your beliefs. You’re being criticized for your blatant and self-serving religious privilege and your characterization of being persecuted. And, let’s be honest here, you’re not scared to speak out and claim that you’re a Xian. That’s bullshit, and we both know it. You’re scared to put your ideas out there and have them challenged, because you know that your ideas do not stand up to reason and rationality.

      • Just_some_Catholic_gy

        First, now no one, in the sports world, cares that Tim Tebow is Christian. They just want to know if he can play in the NFL level which he obviously can’t, and he can’t even play on the CFL level at that. Do other groups want to talk to Tim Tebow, of course, and they are probably Christian groups. But do you see Tim Tebow on ESPN or on the news now a days? No. I haven’t heard ESPN FirstTake talk about Tim Tebow in months until this past Tuesday when they talked about him getting released from the Jets and if he had a future in the NFL.

        I never said there was a widespread anti-Christian movement going across the entire nation. But there has been a trend of anti-Christian/anti-religion in the world today. More people are leaving the faith in all religions not just Christian and are moving towards an atheist point of view. I’m not saying Christians are being murdered and martyred for their faith everywhere around the world. But there has been a stronger resistance to Christianity and religion in the past 50 years.

        How is my disagreeing with the author not true? Many people aren’t fully living out their lives in the faith. Myself included. There aren’t many people today that are being out spoken of the faith and going forth evangelizing. That is why Pope Benedict XVI made “The New Evangelization”, to personally grow in faith with yourself and God and let that light illuminate to others, so that those people may re-enter the Church. And I am not saying be a bible banger and shove the Church down people’s throats. The Church is an open invitation. You can decide to take part in it or not.

        Yes, there is the Bible verse somewhere along the lines of, “Go someone secluded and be with yourself to pray to the Lord in private.” And yes you are supposed to do that. It is good to have private time with the Lord and for the two of you to speak to one another. But Jesus tells his disciples to go forth two by two and spread the word of God. It also says in the Bible, “Woe to you for not sharing the gospel.”. The gospel is God’s word and by sharing the gospel with those around you are are evangelizing.

        How are the religious privileged? Are we somehow higher in the pecking order for being religious? Every person was made as equal, just because I believe in a high being doesn’t make me any better than it makes you. How am I self-serving? I don’t do these things to make it to heaven. Being Christian is about accomplishing a checklist so that you can show God what you have done on this Earth and prove to him that you deserve to be in paradise forever. The fact is, none of us deserve to be in heaven, but it is because our God is so loving he allows us to do so. Being Christian means that you live a life of Christ, defending the teaches of God and bringing Him to those around you.

        And to be honest I actually am scared of being criticized, especially it being on the internet because you aren’t face to face or having a conversation. You have a war of words that goes no where because some way some how someone reading what you write doesn’t take what you write the way that you intended it to be read. Also part of it is because I don’t like challenge or confrontation, and because I don’t have a full understand of the faith as well, and I am still learning everyday about the Catholic Church and what She really teaches. But that doesn’t mean I shouldn’t put myself out that and express my opinion.

        And if you want to talk about marriage or any other topic I would be glad to have a conversation with you but I feel that this is neither the place or time for that.

        • GCT

          First, now no one, in the sports world, cares that Tim Tebow is Christian.

          That’s false, and you know it. The only reason he got as much press as he’s received is because he’s hyper-Xian and people have fawned all over him for it.

          But do you see Tim Tebow on ESPN or on the news now a days? No.

          Again, false.

          But there has been a trend of anti-Christian/anti-religion in the world today.

          Again, false, and full of religious privilege.

          More people are leaving the faith in all religions not just Christian and are moving towards an atheist point of view.

          That you equate this with “Anti-Xian” trend proves my point.

          How is my disagreeing with the author not true?

          It helps if you read for comprehension and take my comment in context. You posted a huge “No True Scotsman” fallacy and used that to claim that the OP was wrong. Sorry, it doesn’t work that way. But, here you are quote-mining me and pretending that I called you wrong simply for saying you disagree.

          Many people aren’t fully living out their lives in the faith.

          No True Scotsman.

          Yes, there is the Bible verse somewhere along the lines of, “Go someone secluded and be with yourself to pray to the Lord in private.” And yes you are supposed to do that. It is good to have private time with the Lord and for the two of you to speak to one another. But Jesus tells his disciples to go forth two by two and spread the word of God. It also says in the Bible, “Woe to you for not sharing the gospel.”. The gospel is God’s word and by sharing the gospel with those around you are are evangelizing.

          Yup, it’s one of those contradiction thingies that you can find in the Bible. There are lots more. It’s nonsense.

          How are the religious privileged?

          Are you really that clueless? The privilege of being part of the majority is pretty palpable. We have to put up with Xianity in the public and the bullshit stereotypes of god = good, godless = bad, and you sit there and wonder how you have privilege?

          Are we somehow higher in the pecking order for being religious?

          Quite frankly, yes.

          Every person was made as equal, just because I believe in a high being doesn’t make me any better than it makes you.

          Correct. So, stop acting like you are. Stop waving your privilege in my face. Stop trying to put your jackboots on the necks of atheists.

          How am I self-serving?

          Pushing your religion and your religious privilege on us is self-serving. Indulging in your pathetic persecution complex is self-serving. Need I go on?

          I don’t do these things to make it to heaven.

          You don’t? Then, you’ve just argues against Xian morality. Congrats.

          The fact is, none of us deserve to be in heaven, but it is because our God is so loving he allows us to do so.

          Only someone in an abusive relationship would consider that love. It’s called Stockholm Syndrome.

          Being Christian means that you live a life of Christ, defending the teaches of God and bringing Him to those around you.

          Another No True Scotsman argument.

          And to be honest I actually am scared of being criticized, especially it being on the internet because you aren’t face to face or having a conversation.

          That’s generally the case for people who hold unsupportable ideas.

    • Gus Snarp

      I was reticent to bring this up, but reading your assessment of the media treatment of Tebow leads me to need to express it.

      You know what the biggest difference is between Tebow and all the other NFL players who go down on one knee in the field? Tebow’s white. Tebow got all the attention because he’s a white evangelical Christian. Black athletes praying are either invisible to the media, or seen paternalistically. Kurt Warner is white and Christian, but he shied away from the big on-field displays of religiosity. But here was a white player making these on-field displays. Southern Evangelical Christians got behind him 100%, whether he could throw or not, in a way they never got behind Reggie White, or any of the unordained, black NFL players who constantly take a knee in prayer on the field. When Tebow was at Florida there were howls that he should be the starting QB, in spite of the senior QB who was starting leading them to the National Championship game and in spite of the fact that he really, seriously, could not throw. He throws better now, but he’s still not at the NFL level as a passer, in college he was abysmal. He was, and is, a specialty player, not a starting QB. But Florida fans wanted him to start over the Senior who was winning games and who happened to be black. I have no doubt some of those people just liked the things he did while playing in special situations, but a significant number, whether consciously or not, wanted him to start because he was white. That’s what made the hype. A white, evangelical Christian making grandiose displays of religiosity on the field in much the same way as black players who many white fans can’t really identify with.

      Once the hype was established it became annoying and people tired of it because Tebow was actively trying to preach and convert people through these actions, and said as much in interviews all the time. That and he decided to turn his fame to anti-abortion commercials.

      • Just_some_Catholic_guy

        I do agree that the media gravitated more to Tim Tebow because he was white. There are plenty of black running quarterbacks in college and in the league that don’t get their shot because they are said to be a non-orthodox quarterback and can’t get the job done. And the fact that Tim Tebow was able to do it being white and an evangelical Christian just gives the media even more things to talk about.

        Just because the hype was established doesn’t mean the media isn’t going to stop reporting him even if people don’t like to listen to him. I honestly don’t think Tebow was actively trying to preach and convert people through his interviews. I took the time to watch many of Tim Tebow’s interviews while on the Broncos and on the Jets on YouTube and all he says is “I would like the thank my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ for giving me this opportunity to play thank my team for their amazing effort…” and just continue on to answer the question about how the game went. And he does talk about how he does all he can do and it is only just a game and that God is in control, but how is that preaching and converting people? He is answering the questions the way he knows best. Thanking the Lord for the opportunity and constantly reminding himself it isn’t himself he is playing for. And if he gets a question that is solely about game preps or how the defense did this and that he only talked about what the team did. He doesn’t randomly plug in, “But I know the Lord is always going to protect me from their tackles.” or anything like that.

        Finally, Tim Tebow does his anti-abortion commercials mainly because he was going to be aborted himself. His mother was urged by doctors to abort her baby, Tim Tebow, while she was doing mission work in the Philippines and she caught amoebic dysentery. Pam spoke out on her Christian faith and how she thought abortion was wrong and decided to continue on with her pregnancy. Tim Tebow and his family are anti-abortion because they were so close to aborting Tim Tebow and he became this sports phenomenon he was 2 years ago. So not only is it because of their faith but also because of personal experience.

        • GCT

          I honestly don’t think Tebow was actively trying to preach and convert people through his interviews.

          You’re the only one that doesn’t think that he was.

        • Gus Snarp

          I’ve heard him say he sees his purpose as being to use his fame through football to spread his faith. That’s what he’s doing by praying on field, putting Bible verses on his eye-black, and even by thanking God in the way that he does. It’s all about evangelism, every last bit of it. I never said he preaches or tries to convert people during interviews, just that he’s admitted that that’s what he’s all about during interviews. Although I could be wrong about all the time, it may have only been the one time I heard him say it, repeated by various news outlets after the fact.

          Tim did an anti-abortion commercial because he’s anti-abortion. He’s anti-abortion because he’s an evangelical Christian and his family is anti-abortion. His mother is not anti-abortion because she was so close to aborting him, if your doctor tells you to abort to save your life and you don’t because of your “Christian faith and how you think abortion is wrong”, then you were anti-abortion before that.

          Any way you slice it, he’s an anti-abortion, evangelical Christian, and pro-choice people, like me, don’t like to see him doing anti-abortion commercials. He’s got every right, and I rather expect it, but I’m still going to find it annoying.

          And really, you ought to dislike his evangelizing as much as anyone, judging by your moniker. I would bet that Tebow’s brand of Christianity says you’re not a Christian and you’re going to hell because you worship the Pope, the Virgin Mary, and the saints. It’s pretty standard. Don’t be fooled by the fact that you worship the same God and read fairly similar Bibles and both belong to religions that oppose abortion and gay marriage. Outside of political convenience on those issues, he is not on your side.

          • Just_some_Catholic_guy

            I actually don’t like Tim Tebow that much as a football player. Not because he is an evangelical Christian but because I do think he has been given privileges that other quarterbacks were not given. But that is as a football player not as a person. I can’t dislike him as a person because I don’t even know the guy I only know who he is on camera and that is a mediocre, at best, quarterback that is an outspoken evangelical Christian.

            And yes, I do recall him saying that he is does believe his calling is to use his fame as a platform to evangelize but he is just using what he is given. He was given this fame and he has become a recognizable face in the sports world which can aid him to evangelize. I honestly don’t see anything wrong with that. The media is the one that put Tebow on TV and on magazines and wrote stories on him. He didn’t request these, they gravitated towards him. And if you believe in something so strongly as Tim Tebow believes in Christ then wouldn’t want to share it with others?

            Your point about Tim Tebow and his family being pro-life is very true. They didn’t choose to be pro-life because of Tebow, but being advised by doctors to abort her child and her refusing because of her being pro-life, and Tebow becoming the freak Tebow-mania, Tebow-time, Tebow-ing, could not have been possible if his mother took the doctors advice and aborted. It is simply another testimony that someone could possibly be aborting a child that can be the next MJ, Michael Jordan or Michael Jackson, next Nobel Peace Prize winner, or simply the next member of your family. You don’t know what can come from a child you abort, and you never will if it happens.

            And we are all free to have our own opinions and thoughts and likes or dislikes. And I’m not gonna lie all the Tebow talk on ESPN was getting annoying because all I wanted to hear about was what happened in the sports world not the Tebow world.

            • GCT

              And yes, I do recall him saying that he is does believe his calling is to use his fame as a platform to evangelize but he is just using what he is given.

              So, you retract your claim that he wasn’t trying to evangelize and proselytize? Good.

              I honestly don’t see anything wrong with that.

              Because he happens to be evangelizing for the same faith as you. Nice coincidence there.

              The media is the one that put Tebow on TV and on magazines and wrote stories on him.

              Because of white and Xian privilege. It’s obvious that you have no problem with the latter, at least.

              …but being advised by doctors to abort her child and her refusing because of her being pro-life, and Tebow becoming the freak Tebow-mania, Tebow-time, Tebow-ing, could not have been possible if his mother took the doctors advice and aborted.

              This is a bad argument. For one, I could point out that tyrants and bombers and such wouldn’t be able to carry out their acts if they had been aborted (IOW, you can’t predict future events for children who are or are not aborted). Secondly, this presupposes that his hyper-Xianity is good, which is more religious privilege from you.

              It is simply another testimony that someone could possibly be aborting a child that can be the next MJ, Michael Jordan or Michael Jackson, next Nobel Peace Prize winner, or simply the next member of your family.

              Or the next Hitler, Boston marathon bomber, suicide bomber, etc.

  • http://www.facebook.com Kwende Idrissa Madu

    When will Tebow come out?

  • DesertSun59

    Yes. That’s the bottom line. Tebow CHOSE his religion. Religion is 100% a choice. And, Tim Tebow knows absolutely NOTHING whatsoever about the religion he chose.

    Tim Tebow knows absolutely zero about the origin and nature of Christianity. He knows nothing about the politics involved in its creation in 325 AD. He knows nothing about its tribal Jewish origin before that. He knows nothing about the solar theology that predates even that.

    I guarantee you that he knows absolutely nothing about the genocidal nature of the deity he ‘lovingly’ worships. He’s never actually counted up the deaths that were either directly or indirectly caused by his deity. He’s never bothered.

    We all know that Tim Tebow shaves, he wears fabrics made of two different types of threads and that he eats shrimp. I guarantee you that he knows nothing about how that is 100% a no-no. I guarantee you that he doesn’t know that Jesus killed a fig tree – maliciously and with malevolence – ON A WHIM. I guarantee you that Tim Tebow knows nothing about the virtual sword that Jesus brought to cleave families apart. I guarantee you that Tim Tebow knows that not only viewing his deity will allow him to still be alive after said encounter, but that it will also kill him if he were to view his deity for even a nanosecond. Yep, BOTH.

    I could go on and on and on about what Tim Tebow DOESN’T know about his religion. But I can also go on and on about the extremely brave decision that Jason made to come out.

    Tim Tebow isn’t brave. He’s ignorant. He knows NOTHING. He’s a media show.

    Jason is a hero and now he’s a role model.

    • http://www.facebook.com/pandora114 Monique Boulanger

      Is it me, or am I the only one who pictured a variation of the scene from Raiders of the Lost Ark with Tebow as the melty faced crazy when you described him during his deity viewing session.

      • http://gamesgirlsgods.blogspot.com/ Feminerd

        Not until now! Now I can’t get that image out of my head.

  • Duke OfOmnium

    I think it’s amusing that they’re comparing christianity to homosexuality, on any level.

  • fiona64

    The “oppressed Christian majority” trope does get very old after a while …

  • http://www.facebook.com/dreslough Clay Dreslough

    You forgot to mention that the media DIDN’T tell Tebow to keep it to himself. They worshiped him and made him the top story for months on end. He is still one of the top on-going NFL stories despite the fact that he had less playing time last year than Jason Collins (yes, really).

  • http://twitter.com/stephen_t_james Stephen James

    Bravo Hemant… nice to see someone who understands the difference between these two people.. one is brave and the other is just more more sheep following a blind faith.

  • http://www.facebook.com/mr.RANDOM804 Greg Pinkney

    all of this is fucking stupid. the article is typical atheist in a sense that it downplays religion as a fan club of sorts, but the athiest followers is probably worse than the writer of the article. lest we forget that john amechi was the 1st to come out the closet as a basketball player(granted he wasnt active and this is no popularity contest). but i never seen the type of media coverage back then for jason collins now. as a christian beliver in my faith i did find tebows constant gloating to be annoying as a son of a bitch. i mean alot of athletes do the whole scripture thing on the eye black thats cool. but acting like you won a grammy even after losses just seemed fake to me so i never payed tebow no mind, its a shame to see that the friendly atheist communitysupposedly so tolerant in everything from religion(supposedly of any kind) to your sexual orientation still like to throw the proverbial kitchen sink opinion towards the christian faith.. im not super christian by no means of the imagination actually i like where i stand but this shit is just as ignorant as the scumbag who runs the westboro baptist church(its not a church THATS a fan club)

    • GCT

      all of this is fucking stupid.

      Nice of you to give us a warning before having to read through the rest of your religiously privileged claptrap.

      …its a shame to see that the friendly atheist communitysupposedly so tolerant in everything from religion(supposedly of any kind) to your sexual orientation still like to throw the proverbial kitchen sink opinion towards the christian faith..

      You are not persecuted or oppressed. Stop acting like you are.

      im not super christian by no means of the imagination actually i like where i stand but this shit is just as ignorant as the scumbag who runs the westboro baptist church(its not a church THATS a fan club)

      Oh, I’m sure that pointing out religious privilege is just like protesting funerals with the (accurate if the Bible is true) message that the Xian god hates “fags”. Just like theists are militant when they fly planes into buildings or blow up abortion clinics and atheists are militant when they write scathing blog posts. Or how atheists are the real privileged class in our society when they point out your religious privilege (much like KKK protesters are the real racists). Yes, it seems your initial warning to us that you were about to write a bunch of “fucking stupid” crap was well warranted, and for that I thank you.

    • JA

      Must be a boring day over at the fundie blogs.

      • Jeff

        Well, yes, because they’re *fundie* blogs. They have a monopoly on useless, boring crap.

        Maybe that’s more the issue: nobody likes Mr. Tebow talking about being a Christian because Christians have a track record in this country of being boring sticks-in-the-mud who actively oppose anything fun. Prohibition was a Christian idea. Opposition to rock music? Christian. Opposition to dancing? Christian. Not all Christians, of course, but all of these things originated in Christianity.

        Meanwhile, the LGBT community (mostly the “G” part, and yes I know this is a stereotype) has a reputation for great dance music, parties, classy food in trendy locations, trendsetting fashion, and general-purpose love for life. Given the choice between all that good stuff and yet another puritan, is it any surprise people are flocking to the gay guy?

        • Internet_Zen_Master

          Well aren’t you full of wonderful hasty generalizations? So you’re saying that none of things you attributed to the LGBT community were ever done by heterosexuals.

          And as for prohibition a Christian idea, you’re a little bit off. The Catholic Church opposed Prohibition. The groups that were backing it were the “holier-than-thou” Protestant brands, such as the Methodists, Northern Baptists, Southern Baptists, New School Presbyterians, Disciples of Christ, Congregationalists, Quakers, etc, etc. Given the fact that the Catholic Church makes up the majority of Christianity, it appears that the source of the Christian support was from a vocal minority. [That being said, with Christians, it usually is the vocal minority that ruins it for everyone else. Same goes for the rock n roll/dance problem. Usually was the same bunch of vocal "puritan-wannabes" try to make sure we couldn't have nice things.]

          Now I don’t pay attention to football much, so I can’t really comment on Tim Tebow’s actions. If he wants to flaunt the fact that he’s Christian and proud of it, well good for him. He has every right to do that thanks to the First Amendment (however, if he started having a parade on the field during half-time to celebrate Christianity, then there’s a problem…)

          As for the political cartoon, I think part of the problem is this: iirc back when Tebow entered the NFL, he did get a lot of attention for being so openly Christian. He got his 15 minutes of fame. So the media doesn’t care about it anymore. “Tebow is a Christian” is old news.

          This Collins guy is the first American Athlete (least that I’m aware of anyway) to come out of the lockerroom closet and during his career. More importantly, he’s an NBA player, and last I checked a lot of the culture surrounding basketball wasn’t too friendly towards the LGBT community (at least not vocabulary-wise).

          Is he the equivalent of a gay Jackie Robinson for basketball, or even all American sports altogether?

          Who knows?

          As the Zen Master says, “We’ll see.”

          • GCT

            This Collins guy is the first American Athlete (least that I’m aware of anyway) to come out of the lockerroom closet and during his career.

            First current male American athlete from one of the major 4 sports.

  • http://www.facebook.com/LRD68 Larry Ray Davis

    Great response; thank you for that.

  • Steven

    The only issue I see with this post is that Tebow likely didn’t choose to be a christian.

    • GCT

      I fail to see how that would constitute an issue.

    • godlessveteran

      I doubt anyone was forcing him; how was it not his choice?

    • Derrik Pates

      He may not have chosen the religion in the first place, but as an adult, he chooses to continue to be part of the religion. Contrary to what a few people might claim, a gay person can’t choose to not be gay.

  • godlessveteran

    In a nutshell: Collins wasn’t all over the field waving his (or anyone else’s) penis to advertise his sexuality to the world. Tebow WAS all over the field waving his religion under everyone’s noses, to the detriment of the game.

    • Thegoodman

      His lack of ability was detriment enough. The Holy Roller stuff was just a distraction.

  • julesberry

    I’m not a betting person but if I were, I’d place the odds of Tebow finding a team before Collins at high. Why? Because when it comes to sports there is still that closeness that most men are uncomfortable with. The idea of the ‘gay’ guy in the locker room with a dozen or more half naked/naked guys, gives most guys, well the heebee geebees. Silly but true. No straight guy wants another guy checking out his package, and especially a gay guy.

    • http://www.facebook.com/jason.fischer.5496 GutterName

      I agree that a lot of people have that attitude – but the fact it’s a common attitude doesn’t make it rational. The fact is that he had been showering with other guys (presumably since high school or earlier) without any incident. There’s really no reason to believe that now he’s going to suddenly start coming on to his other teammates or anything like that just because he’s now “out.”

      Besides, contrary to popular opinion, most gay men do have self control. They’re not so driven by lust that they just can’t stop themselves from staring at other men.

  • Regan DuCasse

    Tim Tebow would wear a Biblical chapter and verse on his eye black. Collins wore the number 98 to commemorate the year that Matt Shepard died by such anti gay brutality. Shepard wasn’t the first, and he wasn’t the last. And his killers might have been the first to receive life sentences for it.
    Collins gesture was FAR more compassionate and respectful and caring in comparison. In my mind, making Collins much more morally graceful than a roomful of Tebow’s could ever be.
    There is a never ending self serving and/or self pitying quality in the way Christians like Tebow behave.

  • David Sessions

    As a Christian, I completely agree with you about Tebow’s annoying habits. I can assure you it makes a lot of us Christians squirm when one prays for touchdowns or even suggests that, win or lose, the truest nature of God and his followers will manifest itself to all unbelievers through football. However, I would humbly ask you to not paint in such broad strokes when assigning Tebow, or any evangelical for that matter, a homophobic agenda simply because they fall on the Evangelical line of Christianity. Many times people characterize groups based on the behavior of their lowest common denominator, even majority groups, and, unfortunately I’m afraid, we Evangelicals have earned our homophobic stereotype. While I, nor any other right minded Christian, ought to feel sorry for themselves about this, my prayer is the Evangelical message of love would begin to drown out the dogmatic homophobic hate speech to often heard from our lips. Until then, I gently ask that you let Tebow define his own stance on homosexuality before you assign him one. And, if he never comes out and takes a stance on the issue, then lets thank God for Tim learning to keep his religious views off the field of play.

    • Valancy Jane

      I feel your pain, David, because I too know how it feels to be in a relationship with a doofus who embarrasses me all the time. Considering that homophobic evangelicals are dominating evangelicalism right now, and considering how often forced-birther evangelicals are also anti-gay rights, I feel very comfortable suspecting bigotry of Tim Tebow. I appreciate the heads-up that he hasn’t made any public statements about gays, though frankly I wouldn’t care in the least if he did–he’s an idiot through and through and a particularly disgusting example of the sort of show-boating evangelical that is most appealing to ignorant redneck martyr-complex-suffering Fox News and Glenn Beck watching Christians. His views on gay rights mean as much to me as his views on forced sterilization programs in China. Even so, my suspicion doesn’t equal confirmation, so until there is confirmation, I’ll keep that in mind.

      • David Sessions

        I’m troubled by the way you choose to speak about people.

        • GCT

          What specifically troubles you?

          We are right to suspect Tebow’s views on gay rights verge on bigotry, for the reasons given. Suspecting something is not the same as claiming it is true.

          • David Sessions

            I don’t think calling Tebow an “idiot” or “disgusting” makes you sound much different than the type of hate-speach you assume he would voice if only he would come out and say it. The difference between you and him is, he hasn’t said it yet. I think, in the end, we need to be pro-people people.

            • GCT

              His pandering is disgusting. His use of his unearned platform is disgusting. His propensity to shove his religious (and white) privilege down our throats is disgusting.

            • Valancy Jane

              Not sure how to respond to this. I think Tim Tebow is an idiot, in that he is a piss-poor football player who makes ridiculously stupid business decisions regarding his career. I think his ignorant attitudes toward women are disgusting, in that they disgust me personally. I don’t make nice with oppressors. I don’t tolerate the intolerant or make allowances for those who drag humanity backward. I don’t appease villains. But by the same token, I don’t think you’re an idiot or disgusting because you haven’t displayed the same traits. I don’t use those terms indiscriminately or without reflection on what they mean. You’re quite judgemental and not meek, loving, or humble at all, which is a sin of course by your own Messiah’s dictates (unless those are some of the optional Bible verses that don’t count anymore for you), but I’m certainly not under the same nonsensical prohibitions you are. I’m free to say that I see Tim Tebow’s life as one long grand-standing attention-grab and his expressed opinions as repellent. I’ll leave it to you True Christians to make nice with people like that. Meanwhile, the rest of us will keep moving forward without you.

        • rx7ward

          Your concern is noted …

    • GCT

      Why hasn’t he made his views public? The fact that he remains quiet, even though he’s been asked, is damning. He has a platform and the ability to help change minds about gays in the evangelical community, but instead he stands quietly by and allows the status quo to go unchallenged. Shame on him.

      Oh, and he does like to schedule talks at anti-gay churches.

      • David Sessions

        So we are damning him for saying too much about his faith and now damning him for not taking a stance even though you know if he did you wouldn’t like what he said? It certainly takes more guts to be Jason Collins than Tim Tebow right now, but can’t we just be happy that Tim may have learned a lesson about public discourse and kept his mouth shut? Can we stop assuming all Evangelicals are just like Tim Tebow and Glen Beck?

        • GCT

          So we are damning him for saying too much about his faith and now damning him for not taking a stance even though you know if he did you wouldn’t like what he said?

          No. What I’m saying is that he has had a platform and instead of using it for good, like coming out in support of gay rights, he’s used it to proselytize. I’m unimpressed when people say that we don’t know what his stance on gay rights is, so we shouldn’t condemn him for it. He’s had the chance to come out and do some good and decided against it. His inaction is an action in itself and I can certainly hold him at fault for it.

          Can we stop assuming all Evangelicals are just like Tim Tebow and Glen Beck?

          Where did I say that all Evangelicals are the same? You’re putting words in my mouth now and erecting straw men to burn. He may actually be for gay rights. But, his actions speak louder than words. He books himself at anti-gay churches and he remains silent, thereby propagating the societal privilege against gays.

          • David Sessions

            Ok, *taking a step back*, I too assumed, didn’t mean to put words in your mouth, and apologize for the Beck comment. However, how can you be upset by him not using his platform for your version of “good” when you know (at least assume confidently) he wouldn’t espouse your ethics? And I don’t think you really believe inaction is the same as action for the status quo. Sometimes deeply conflicting feelings leave people in silence. To say inaction is as harmful as action is to say Tebow is as negative for our culture as Westboro Baptist and that just isn’t true. My issue with Mheta’s article is that it unfairly assigns and simplifies an individual’s ethics. Is Tebow anti-gay? Probably, but the truth is we don’t know. Maybe he admires Jason Collins for his bravery but is scared to say so because he too is a product of the homophobic culture that keeps gay and straight people living in fear.

            • GCT

              However, how can you be upset by him not using his platform for your version of “good” when you know (at least assume confidently) he wouldn’t espouse your ethics?

              You made the argument that we don’t know what his stance on gay rights is. Taking that argument at face value, we can go further and ask why, if he is pro-gay rights, has he not used his position to help gay rights. If he is anti-gay rights, then good that he keeps quiet about it, but he’s not going to get a cookie for being a silent bigot.

              And, what do you mean by talking about my “version” of “good”? Are you saying that it’s up for debate whether it is good to not be a bigot or not?

              And I don’t think you really believe inaction is the same as action for the status quo.

              It very well can be and often is. Sure, we don’t all speak up every opportunity we get to denounce bigotry, but we also don’t have the platform the Tebow does. With great power comes great responsibility. He has wasted it on proselytizing instead of doing something good with it.

              ‘All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing.’

              To say inaction is as harmful as action is to say Tebow is as negative for our culture as Westboro Baptist and that just isn’t true.

              You’re making unwarranted assumptions and extrapolations of my words again. No, staying silent is not the same as actively attacking gays. But, it does help the status quo when people don’t stand up and denounce bigotry.

              My issue with Mheta’s article is that it unfairly assigns and simplifies an individual’s ethics.

              Which part? To me it looks like a good rejoinder to a Xian cartoonist that has a persecution complex. It’s less about Tebow and more about religious privilege in our society.

              Maybe he admires Jason Collins for his bravery but is scared to say so because he too is a product of the homophobic culture that keeps gay and straight people living in fear.

              Maybe, but not likely. Still, my points on that score still stand. He could use his celebrity to speak up on behalf of gay rights. He could be like LeRoy Butler, who gave up a speaking gig at a church when they cancelled on him for congratulating Collins. Instead, we see Tebow scheduling speaking gigs at churches that are known to be anti-gay.

              • David Sessions

                Are you suggesting the term “good” isn’t subjective? You are faulting someone for not supporting your view of what is good when it may not sound all that good to him. You then reduce a complex issue and a human being to the term “bigot” because, prior to Jason Collins coming out, he didn’t cancel speaking engagements at places when the order of the evening had nothing to do with gay rights. Of course I don’t think Tim Tebow is persecuted by the media nor is it sane for a Christian in America to ever feel truly persecuted, but I would like to suggest for a moment that you are being unfair in your views of someone you do not know. One day everyone in America will have equal rights, we do not hasten that day by using words like “bigot.”

                • GCT

                  Are you suggesting the term “good” isn’t subjective? You are faulting someone for not supporting your view of what is good when it may not sound all that good to him.

                  I do so love when Xians resort to relative morality in order to make their arguments.

                  You then reduce a complex issue and a human being to the term “bigot” because, prior to Jason Collins coming out, he didn’t cancel speaking engagements at places when the order of the evening had nothing to do with gay rights.

                  I did no such thing. You’d do well to actually read what I write and respond to that instead of responding to what you wish I wrote.

                  Of course I don’t think Tim Tebow is persecuted by the media nor is it sane for a Christian in America to ever feel truly persecuted, but I would like to suggest for a moment that you are being unfair in your views of someone you do not know.

                  How am I being unfair?

                  One day everyone in America will have equal rights, we do not hasten that day by using words like “bigot.”

                  On the contrary, we don’t get to that day by not making it plain and apparent that some people actually are bigots and making them incur a social cost for being so. No civil rights movement has been successful by sitting back and being polite. If someone is a bigot, then I will call them that.

  • http://www.facebook.com/robertdouglasyoung Robert Young

    It’s the media’s job to report the news, not choose sides. Stantis has a point: the media is biased. And that point is spot-on, regardless of whether there are a lot of Christians in sports.

    • GCT

      No, Stantis’ point was that the media is biased against Xians, which is not even close to spot on.

    • Derrik Pates

      Because Tim Tebow has been so ignored by the sports media, that he’s never been on the cover of SI or anything. Oh wait, you mean to say he’s been on the cover… 8 times? Yeah, quit whining. Tebow’s gotten a lot of media coverage out of making a big show of how Christian he is, mostly because he’s a mediocre football player.

  • Chris Vanderwielen

    I’m sorry, in what world does your sexual preference have any bearing on playing basketball?
    And if you think Collins is “brave’ you obviously have no idea of the political and social climate in america today…it’s braver for someone to speak out against homosexuality due to the abudance of labels the Liberals will throw at you.

    • Valancy Jane

      Mmhmm, fascinating. And how do you personally feel about those people who are “brave” enough to openly voice absolutely racist views in public? Do you admire them too?

    • GCT

      I’m sorry, in what world does your sexual preference have any bearing on playing basketball?

      It shouldn’t. The fact that it does seem to matter puts the lie to your second argument.

      And if you think Collins is “brave’ you obviously have no idea of the political and social climate in america today…it’s braver for someone to speak out against homosexuality due to the abudance of labels the Liberals will throw at you.

      Let me shed a couple crocodile tears for the poor bigots of the world. The fact of the matter is, however, that being gay puts you in the minority in a world that is privileged towards heteros. In a world where “gay” is used to denote something that is stupid or bad, gays are beaten, harrassed, bullied, etc. you don’t get to claim that it’s braver to speak out against homosexuality. That’s like claiming it’s brave to come out of the closet as a Xian. Fuck you.

    • Thegoodman

      Just like those “brave” patriots who fought so nobly against evil ideas like women’s suffrage and the freedom of slaves?

      Being a bigot is not brave.

  • Melos

    Choosing a religion isn’t like picking out what color tie you are going to wear. Most people who have thought seriously about their faith feel compelled to follow it because they believe it to be true. I doubt you chose to believe that there is no God. Instead, after analyzing all of the evidence, you felt compelled to reach the conclusions you have. (This same argument forms the basis of a major objection raised to Pascal’s wager).

    You could chose to live a Christian lifestyle, but I imagine that you wouldn’t be truly happy because ultimately your actions and your faith are not aligned. I imagine that Jason Collins felt a real emptiness because he kept his sexual orientation a secret, and I hope that he now feels like a weight has been lifted off of his shoulders. But to suggest that Tebow simply chose to be a Christian and could just as easily chose to be something else is, frankly, absurd.

    • Valancy Jane

      Nobody can choose what they do or don’t believe, indeed. Of course, many people are forced to pay lip service to various religions out of fear. It’s always been just astonishing to me how so many Christians are perfectly fine with forcing society to at least *act* “Christian” (such as their efforts to criminalize non-marital sex years ago, their ongoing efforts to make recreational sex so terrifying for women they are too scared to have it, and their continuing efforts to dehumanize gay people) even though doing so only makes society all the more alienated and distanced from their religion.

    • GCT

      Most people who have thought seriously about their faith feel compelled to follow it because they believe it to be true.

      I’d venture that that’s not most people. Most people simply follow the faith they were brought up with. And, although it is certainly not a choice, it is a choice whether one will be open to hearing new ideas or not.

      You could chose to live a Christian lifestyle, but I imagine that you wouldn’t be truly happy because ultimately your actions and your faith are not aligned.

      Yes, the immorality of hating gays and atheists (and humanity in general) would make me unhappy.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Eric-Van-Bezooijen/1237106 Eric Van Bezooijen

    Scott Stantis doesn’t get it. There was little, if any, personal danger to Tim Tebow when publicly displaying his religion while playing his sport. Religious affiliation is a protected class, and the majority of Americans identify as being Christian. This was not a courageous act, and many people find this kind of overt display of religion annoying. On the other hand, other than subtly wearing the “98″ jersey, Jason Collins has not overtly displayed his sexuality while playing the game. He does not show off a partner when playing his games, although there would be nothing wrong with that as athletes often have their opposite sex partners watching them; he doesn’t wear rainbow attire while playing in public; etc. He’s the first person EVER to come out while actively playing a professional sport in America. Given the level of homophobia in the macho professional athlete culture in America, Jason Collins does face danger by doing this. The fact that so many of his fellow athletes have embraced and supported his action shows how far along this country has moved to greater equality and tolerance in a rather short period of time. There is hope for us yet. Here’s to more closeted professional athletes coming out.

    • http://gamesgirlsgods.blogspot.com/ Feminerd

      Well, he’s the first male athlete to come out in one of the “major” sports. There’ve been several men who have come out in more minor sports like swimming. A woman, Brittney Griner, came out recently as a lesbian; she’s a professional basketball player.

      So really, he’s the first male football or basketball player to come out as gay. He’s certainly not the first athlete or even professional athlete to come out.

  • lacrossestar83

    is “conservative humor” really a thing?

  • CThur

    The Christian message was never meant to shun or condemn other people. If that were the case I don’t think the story would have involved Christ coming and dying as a sacrifice for the sins of man. Sure, it does happen, but when it does it’s not because it’s the true message of Christ. The Bible teaches us to love one another…including our enemies. It is possible to refuse to do something based on moral grounds, and still not condemn the person who requested it. But sometimes we as humans, don’t always practice what we preach. That’s all of humanity, though.

    As far as Tebow goes… I don’t think he ever forced anyone to point the camera in his direction, and I don’t think he ever took the mic away from anybody to preach to everyone. He responded to questions, and gave credit where he thought it was due, and didn’t hide who he was based on the chastisement of people annoyed by his display of faith. A lot of people feel like he forced his faith on us, but in reality it was the media who put an amplifier on the person he already was. –Disclaimer: I haven’t seen everything he’s done on the camera, so maybe he has hijacked it, and I didn’t see it.

    And, as far as Collins goes… I’m proud that he had the courage to come out and stand for what he believes in. No, I don’t believe it is right, but I’m no one to point any fingers at anybody. He’s got the right to be who he wants to be, and I’ll support the right to that choice. What he did takes a lot of courage.

    Christ’s message, intent, and successful mission was to provide a way for both justice to be served on all of humanity’s wrongdoing, and simultaneously spare us from the condemnation that came from humanity’s wrongdoing. It wasn’t so that those who believe his message would use the teachings of the Bible to condemn those who don’t. It is the opposite.

    I would love to write a lot more, but I should probably stop there! These are just some of my own thoughts after reading some of the comments. –Christians might be the “majority”, but it’s definitely not “cool” to be one.

    • Valancy Jane

      … if you could actually objectively prove any of your bald and glib assertions and claims about your particular quirky little take on the Bible (just one of tens of thousand competing takes, I might add), wouldn’t that be just the most amazing thing.

      Many Christians do not practice what they preach, yes. Why? You all know you have a judgement waiting for you (though of those tens of thousands of takes on the Bible, the length of torture and if there’ll be torture at all is up for grabs) and a god who sees absolutely EVERYTHING you do. If you don’t take it seriously, nobody else should. You can contort all you want around why Christians can’t even manage the most basic rules of their religion, but the obvious truth visible to me and many others is: you are perfectly aware that there isn’t actually a god judging you or any kind of penalty for disobedience.

      So you don’t have any real evidence for your claims, and most of you lot don’t even take it seriously yourselves. I’ma call this myth BUSTED.

    • GCT

      The Christian message was never meant to shun or condemn other people.

      Perhaps you should actually try reading the Bible. Jesus spends most of his time condemning others to hell.

      Sure, it does happen, but when it does it’s not because it’s the true message of Christ.

      No True Scotsman fallacy.

      The Bible teaches us to love one another…including our enemies.

      If you ignore all the other passages that teach you to hate others.

      He responded to questions, and gave credit where he thought it was due, and didn’t hide who he was based on the chastisement of people annoyed by his display of faith. A lot of people feel like he forced his faith on us, but in reality it was the media who put an amplifier on the person he already was.

      He proselytized and used his platform to do so intentionally. And, the reason he got a platform at all was due to religious (and white) privilege. That you overlook such things says quite a bit about your own privilege.

      I’m proud that he had the courage to come out and stand for what he believes in.

      Stand for what he believes in? Huh? More like he acknowledged who he is and made the world acknowledge it. It’s not a matter of beliefs.

      No, I don’t believe it is right, but I’m no one to point any fingers at anybody.

      Except, you just did. You just said that he is wrong for being gay. What is wrong about it? Or, perhaps you meant that he was wrong for coming out of the closet and that he should have kept his being gay a dirty little secret?

      He’s got the right to be who he wants to be, and I’ll support the right to that choice.

      Choice? Being gay is not a choice.

      Christ’s message, intent, and successful mission was to provide a way for both justice to be served on all of humanity’s wrongdoing, and simultaneously spare us from the condemnation that came from humanity’s wrongdoing.

      No it wasn’t. There is no justice with the Xian god, and Jesus didn’t talk of justice. He talked of condemnation. He talked of condemnation for not being perfect and for not following him. Again, you should actually read the book that you put so much stock in.

      It wasn’t so that those who believe his message would use the teachings of the Bible to condemn those who don’t. It is the opposite.

      No true Scotsman fallacy again. And, what do you mean by claiming it’s the opposite? That makes absolutely no sense.

      Christians might be the “majority”, but it’s definitely not “cool” to be one.

      Oh, FFS. You are not persecuted for being Xian. You are not looked down upon for being Xian. You enjoy all kinds of societal privilege just by claiming that your sky daddy is the correct sky daddy for this region of the world. It’s ridiculous to hear Xians complaining about how hard they have it, how it’s not “cool”, and other such rubbish.

      • Thegoodman

        He is right thought, it is definitely not cool.

  • http://twitter.com/GunsNRoses300 fsda

    Very well said.

  • Valancy Jane

    I don’t follow sports, don’t like sports, and have never watched a game of any sort (no, I’m not more evolved, just don’t like them, but it’s cool with me if you do). And even I know that Tim Tebow BUH-LOWWWWS at football. And still, it’s surprising how many of the few sports-related things I’ve read that were examinations of him–how (horribly) he plays, how (sanctimoniously) he conducts himself, his nauseatingly patriarchal attitudes toward women, etc.

    It’s very hard for me to keep from wondering if he realized, subconsciously at least, that if he couldn’t get attention, respect, and admiration from his nonexistent skills at his chosen sport, then he’d blow the wad on being one of those disgustingly ostentatious Christians that appeals to the most ignorant, fearful, and pushy segment of evangelicals today.

  • http://www.bynkii.com/ John C. Welch

    Collins did something no male in the NBA (or several other popular leagues) had done: He came out as gay while still playing professionally.

    Um…http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenn_Burke…nope.

    Glenn was open about being gay, and the information was actively supressed. The sports media refused to acknowledge it.

    • Gus Snarp

      Wow, thanks. I did not know that. People should know about this. It should be mentioned in every story on Collins. Collins still did something extremely rare, and he’s still a hero in my book, but we should recognize the footsteps he’s followed in, the fact that pro athletes have knowingly shared locker rooms with a gay athlete with no problem, and that we’re making progress in the fact that we can talk about it now.

    • Gus Snarp

      I found an interesting brief profile of Burke here: http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/6813042/who-invented-high-five

  • bob

    Scientifically speaking, no one is born a homosexual. The act of homosexuality is a learned behavior which can be unlearned. The practice of homosexuality is as detrimental to a society as stealing, murder and adultery.

    • GCT

      Let’s see the scientific studies? Oh wait, you don’t actually have any.

      Homosexuality is not “learned.” If that were the case, why do twins, brought up in the same environment, not both learn it. This is bigoted trash.

      And, you’re going to have to defend the assertion that homosexuality is detrimental to society, let alone as bad as stealing, murder, and adultery. Let me guess, it’s the Ray Comfort bullshit, right?

    • http://www.facebook.com/jason.fischer.5496 GutterName

      Well, quite a few scientific studies of the issue have been done, and not a one of them has supported the notion that homosexuality is a choice. On the other hand, many of them identify a variety of factors that indicate that homosexuality is the result of a wide variety of biological and environmental factors (see: birth order studies (neonatal hormone levels seem to play a significant role,) epigenetic studies, twin studies (if one identical twin is gay, there’s a greater than 50% chance that the other twin will be gay – even if they were separated at birth), various studies of physiological differences between gays and straights, etc.)

      But hey, what is science up against your “confidence” that homosexuality simply MUST be a choice?

      (Quick, now’s the time to cite NARTH and to spout some ignorance about how “twin studies prove that it’s not biological because there would be 100% concordance in twins,” thus demonstrating an ignorance of things like genetic penetrance.)

      As for the rest:

      “The act of homosexuality is a learned behavior which can be unlearned.”

      [Citation needed]

      ” The practice of homosexuality is as detrimental to a society as stealing, murder and adultery”

      [Citation (and some perspective) needed]

  • defender of the family

    20 Wo unto them that call evil good, and good evil, that put darkness for light, and light for darkness, that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! (Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi, Chapter 15)

    • GCT

      You’re no defender of the family. Gay people are working to become families, and bigots (like you) are working as hard as you can to deny them that. The LDS church put how much money into defeating Prop 8 in California? How many LDS members put their children’s college funds into making sure that gays can’t form families under the law. Calling yourself a defender of the family is like calling the KKK the defenders of tolerance.

  • Reginald Selkirk
  • oldmorseguy

    Collins did not choose his sexuality? I see you fell for that line of …..

  • devdas5z

    The cartoon is wrong in another way: the media LOVES talking about Tim Tebow (and getting him to talk.) ESPN execs pressure their radio and TV pundits to talk about Tebow as much as possible. That’s why you see speculation day after day on which team Tebow – a subpar quarterback who hasn’t started a game in 2 years – might sign up with. In fact, on the day the Collins story broke, ESPN witheld discussing it for TWO HOURS and discussed Tebow instead.


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