Pastor Mark Driscoll: Christians Don’t Need to Care About the Environment because Jesus is Coming Back for Us

At Catalyst (a major Christian conference) yesterday, Pastor and Alpha-Manly-Man Mark Driscoll made a comment that may have been intended as a joke but he wasn’t kidding about the core of the message:

“I know who made the environment and he’s coming back and going to burn it all up. So yes, I drive an SUV.”

In other words, screw the environment; Jesus is coming back to save us all in this lifetime so why worry about recycling and climate change and wasting gas…?

The line was confirmed by several attendees:

Driscoll followed that line with: “If you drive a minivan, you’re a mini man.” (Pastor Shock Jock is full of funny, isn’t he?)

This is anecdotal right now, but people online are saying that several attendees walked out on Driscoll during his talk, which wouldn’t be surprising since Christians could also argue that God gave us this world, so it’s our duty to preserve it.

Stuff Christian Culture Likes wrote years ago about how not saving the environment was a hallmark of Christian culture:

Go to a Christian’s house. Drink a can of coke and then say, “I don’t want to throw this away, where is your recycling?” A bit of tension might occur. If you detect some frostiness – or the opposite reaction, a casual “Oh, we don’t recycle, there’s the trash” – you may be in the presence of Christian culture.

Ask the same person how much mileage their car gets. If they have no idea, or if they lament the cost of filling up their SUV, you may be dealing with someone in Christian culture.

I know a lot of Christians will urge everyone not to take Driscoll seriously, but the manly man has a huge following and the idea that saving the environment is something you can ignore because Christians will be saved isn’t exactly news in the evangelical world. They’ve all heard it before.

(via Christian Nightmares)

About Hemant Mehta

Hemant Mehta is the chair of Foundation Beyond Belief and a high school math teacher in the suburbs of Chicago. He began writing the Friendly Atheist blog in 2006. His latest book is called The Young Atheist's Survival Guide.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-W-Busch/578120211 Michael W Busch

    “Driscoll followed that line with: “If you drive a minivan, you’re a mini man.””

    And once again we see Driscoll’s deeply mistaken and creepy ideas. That said, I wonder: I drive a Prius, when I can’t avoid having to drive in the first place. So what would Driscoll call me?

    • Baby_Raptor

      He’d probably say something about how you’re so effeminate you must be one of the scary homogeyz.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-W-Busch/578120211 Michael W Busch

      I also consider how US-centric Driscoll’s perspective is. In the US, there are 0.8 four-wheeled motor vehicles per person. Australia is 0.7; Canada and Japan are 0.6; UK is 0.52.

      • Renshia

        Well he’s all about knowing the way and the truth, so my guess is, no. He just knows he’s right.

      • http://twitter.com/docslacker MD

        Amurrika!

    • Renshia

      He will call you an “identity crisis in action.”

      That’s my guess.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-W-Busch/578120211 Michael W Busch

        I do confess to being very disappointed when I realized that the mileage on the Prius had exceeded the mileage on my bicycle. Living 80 miles from Albuquerque for 8 months does that.

        • Renshia

          Ah I see tree huger and an environmental anarchist.So, he’s right. I can just envision it in the frothing of your mouth as you type. Is that why you hate god and want to eat babies?

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-W-Busch/578120211 Michael W Busch

            Only baby octopus. Very nice when grilled.

            • Renshia

              I find it’s always rubbery especially once it has cooled down.
              I prefer scallops, They’re great with garlic butter.

              • http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-W-Busch/578120211 Michael W Busch

                Octopus does need to be marinated with dilute acid (be it citric or acetic) for an extended period of time to break down enough of the connective proteins.

                • Renshia

                  I will try that.

    • Sue Blue

      My fundamentalist neighbors call my husband and me “Prius-drivin, tree-huggin’ pussies”.

      • Sifo-Dyas

        Like any God-fearin’ Christian should

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-W-Busch/578120211 Michael W Busch

        Rarely have I seen so many unfortunate implications in one statement. I’m sorry you have to deal with such nonsense.

      • Renshia

        You should get a bumper sticker that says that, then add “and proud of it.”
        Or a lawn sign and put it where they can’t help but see it.

  • http://www.facebook.com/brian.westley Brian Westley

    I guess they don’t believe (or maybe care) about Rev 11:18 where god/Jesus will destroy those who destroy the earth.

    • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/ Kevin_Of_Bangor

      I’m sure they will find some Jesus loophole. They are good at doing that.

      • pete084

        It’s all about interpretation, which means Christian loonies can put whatever twist they want on biblical passages on order to make it fit their own ideology. To opinionated religious types the [inert religious tome of your choice here] is a pick and mix for passages to support your world views.

    • Sue Blue

      They explain that verse by claiming that the destroyers are the gays, evolutionists, atheists, and liberals – because to them, questioning or disregarding their narrow absolutist moral view “destroys” Christian family values, and that’s way more important than having air to breathe or water to drink.

  • The Captain

    It’s also a huge barrier to advancements toward any sort of peace in the middle east. Those that really follow the end times bible crap also believe that a war in the middle east is necessary for jesus to return, so they don’t care to stop one. Then there is the awful idea that the anti-christ is a “man of peace” which I feel also leads these types of christians to distrust and oppose the very people we should be supporting (those that want peace).

    • Renshia

      I think you have just grazed the depth of the dysfunction of this teaching. With the fear mongering over the anti-christ, mark of the beast, population control and all the other twisted prophesies, it is like they have set up a thinking process that will totally slow down many of the societal advances we as a species must make if we are to survive as one.

      We will have to enact population control at some point. We will have embedded id cards and an electronic monetary system. Christian fear mongering will hider these advancement and any others that fits within there end times fear mongering. If we can’t overcome the mentality, it can and probably will be the destruction of us as a species.

      • Wabingy

        That would prove their ‘twisted prophesies’ are true though then. Which implies they aren’t twisted?

        • Renshia

          Not true, there belief is gods will do it, not man, but it will be to late to worry about it once it happens.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-W-Busch/578120211 Michael W Busch

          No. The Bible is vague enough that it can be claimed to prophesy just about anything. Which makes it completely useless as a device for predicting the future.

          @Renshia: Fortunately, as long as something like the demographic transition model holds, universal education and societal development will lead to people choosing to have fewer children, so population control need not be coercive.

          Re. embedded ids and an electronic monetary system: these are not necessities, although we’ve really had the last one for a long time already since it is convenient.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Brian-Macker/518709704 Brian Macker

            Not sure how an electronic monetary system is supposed to stop a demographic explosion. Seems to me that given the desire to redistribute wealth, forgive electronic debt, and the EBT card it just gives people a way to have more children without paying for them.

            • http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-W-Busch/578120211 Michael W Busch

              How in the world do you go from “this is an easy way to transfer money around” to “this will make people have more kids” ? Those are entirely unrelated to each other, nor did I attempt to connect them. Also, read my second paragraph above.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ed-Taylor/1540509434 Ed Taylor

        Again, a careful reading of Scripture sweeps all of that stupid “Left Behind” garbage into the trash. All of that end times terror is anti-intellectual at best and dangerous at worst.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-W-Busch/578120211 Michael W Busch

          Again, I approve of your reject of end-times versions of Christianity. But, also again, the Bible doesn’t unambiguously “sweep that into the trash”. The Bible is an inherently ambiguous and self-contradicting document (here’s a partial list http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/by_name.html ). That means it can be used to justify anything.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Brian-Macker/518709704 Brian Macker

        Renshia, You planning on practicing this on Jews too? I mean population control, ID chips, how is this different than concentration camps and serial numbers on wrists? You scare me far more than the guy in the video. What scares me more is commenters are replying to you as if you made a valid point. This guy believes in an imaginary non-event that isn’t going to happen. I’m not scared of the end times. I am afraid of socialists with collectivists mentalities advocating eugenics for the good of the species. Oh, make no mistake, you think like a socialist.

        • The Captain

          Please explain how the carry capacity of the earth exceeds 16 billion people. Also show your math since if you are right and that is a “non-event” much praise/fame/and money would be lauded upon you on the lecture circuit.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Brian-Macker/518709704 Brian Macker

            How about you explain why pedophilia is natural? WTF, does my complaint about someone advocating policies equivalent to the worst abuses of communist china and Nazi Germany got to do with the carrying capacity of the earth. Funny but you seem unaware that population growth in the most free societies have leveled off, and of the endless population doomsayers who have perpetually been wrong. You need more than the mere possibility that some supposed carrying capacity be exceeded to justify the kinds of rights violations being proposed here.

            • http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-W-Busch/578120211 Michael W Busch

              Again, what rights violations were being proposed? As you say, populations in societies past the demographic transition have leveled off. As long as that model remains valid, the world population will eventually stop increasing and slowly decline – entirely by voluntary choice.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-W-Busch/578120211 Michael W Busch

          When in any of what Renshia said was there any implication of coercion or eugenics? And that is the crucial difference that you appear to be missing.

          • Renshia

            I am not suggesting or recommending anything, There are many possibilities and it depends on how bad the problem gets before it is dealt with. I am just saying as time goes on these things will need to be addressed an that religions mentality will hinder much of it to happen, possibly to the point of it being to late.

            There are many factors besides just how fast we breed that will determine what solutions we need to implement, could eugenics become the solution or part of it, maybe, I don’t know. I don’t advocate eugenics, but I also don’t deny the possibility of it’s use if that is what we need to do to survive.

        • Renshia

          Well of course it will apply to Jews. Look, I am not saying that that I want to do these things. Nor am I advocating them to be done. I am just not in denial it will happen.

          We need to start controlling our population growth. It is either that or we need to send colonies into space. The planet can not sustain out population growth for much longer. We will have to limit births and if we are going to have to do that we will need to manage the strength and quality of our DNA structure. It is an inevitable fact. With our continuing ability to extend life to help with managing population control, we will need to manage life cycles as well So somehow we will need to figure out when people should die. It is an inevitable fact, unless we can start sending colonies of people into space.

          An electronic monetary system well, eventually that will be how it’s done. It is a much better way to keep track of it all, a chip embedded on the had or wrist The Jews may not like it, nobody says they have to, but it is only a matter of time and it is obvious it is the way we are going.

          Yes I do have a bit of a socialist bent to my beliefs. I say that proudly, in case you have doubt. It’s because I realize as a species we are dependent on each other. You can run around beating your chest proclaiming you are your own man, but the reality is we are all interdependent on each other. The sooner we begin to act like it the more likely we will survive as a species.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-W-Busch/578120211 Michael W Busch

            We need to start controlling our population growth. It is either that or we need to send colonies into space.

            The latter is not possible for any large fraction of the human population under any reasonable planning horizon. The former will happen. If we are sensible with truly universal education and making contraceptives available, the population will level off and begin to slowly decrease sooner than otherwise. It would be better if the population levels off and drops on the low end of the current forecasts. You are quoting the mid-range values, which have the population leveling off somewhere around 10 billion c. 2100 before it decreases again. The low end is currently for a peak of ~8.3 billion c. 2050, with a decrease to ~6 billion c. 2100. ref. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:World-Population-1800-2100.svg

        • Renshia

          This is what the un has to say about declining birth rates.

          A WORLD POPULATION

          World population is projected to grow from 6.1
          billion in 2000 to 8.9 billion in 2050, increasing
          therefore by 47 per cent. The average annual
          population growth rate over this half-century will
          be 0.77 per cent, substantially lower than the 1.76
          per cent average growth rate from 1950 to 2000.
          In addition, growth is projected to slow the further
          the projections go. For 2000-2005, the annual
          growth rate is estimated at 1.22 per cent; by 2045-
          2050, it will be only 0.33 per cent.

          Although growth rates will fall, the annual in-
          crease in world population will remain large: 57
          million a year on average between 2000 and 2050.
          This is smaller than the 71 million people added
          annually between 1950 and 2000 but still substan-
          tial. It means that, on average each year for 50
          years, world population will expand by about as
          many people as now live in Italy. The increase,
          over 50 years, will be more than twice the current
          population of China, or more than twice the cur-
          rent population of all more developed regions
          combined. Although population growth will even-
          tually subside, and a variety of countries will see
          little or no population growth, for the world as a
          whole the next 50 years can hardly be character-ized as demographically tranquil.

          http://www.un.org/esa/population/publications/longrange2/WorldPop2300final.pdf

          57 million a year on average between 2000 and 2050.
          Yeah this is a complete no event, Go home nothing to see here. Go stick your heads in the sand and deny reality, it’s better that way.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jada-Stone/100001704943944 Jada Stone

        Perhaps we should tell them their facebook password is a sign of the mark of the beast, and remind them that it was developed by atheists.

        • Renshia

          Oh, they will just make excuses like the lord provides in mysterious ways, or some such shit.

    • observer

      “It is wonderful how much time good people spend fighting the devil. If they would only expend the same amount of energy loving their fellow men, the devil would die in his own tracks of ennui.” – Helen Keller

      If these people seriously think the anti-christ is a “man of peace”, what does that make their “loving” God?

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Brian-Macker/518709704 Brian Macker

      You haven’t made your case. Just because someone doesn’t “care to stop” something does not make them a “hugh barrier”. I don’t care toe stop self flagulation but I am certainly not a huge barrier preventing someone from whipping themsleves. End times bible crap is exactly that but you actually have to show your work on the cause and effect. Are the Palestienians who have voted in terrorist organization after terrorist organization influenced by end times thinking? They are the main obstacle to peace. Kinda hard to make peace with a group that wants to commit genocide.

      • The Captain

        “You haven’t made your case.”

        I wasn’t aware this was a court of law? I was expressing and “opinion” not arguing for the freedom of Tom Robinson.

        In a democracy when a large group of people do not care to vote in a manner that would elect leaders that would act in favor of a position (such as peace), then yes, they are a barrier.

        As for the rest… well that’s about the level of understanding and the nuance of the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians you would expect a 5 year old settler child to have, not an adult in the rest of the world.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Brian-Macker/518709704 Brian Macker

          Correction, expressing your ignorant opinion. Get a clue. End times thinking has about zero to do with the situation in Israel.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Brian-Macker/518709704 Brian Macker

            Also, before you open your mouth on Israel again you should read something other than the Noam Chomsky or Edward Said version of events there. Try this: http://archive.frontpagemag.com/media/pdf/biglies.pdf

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-W-Busch/578120211 Michael W Busch

            Fred Clark here on patheos would dispute that, with considerable evidence.

  • http://twitter.com/deamoncohln Deamon Cohln

    I’m more pissed that he’s throwing away cans.
    Michigan has 10 cent bottle return. That’s just bad economics dude.

    • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/ Kevin_Of_Bangor

      In Maine we get hit with the deposit when we pay. So if you don’t return you lose a lot of nickels. Not sure if it is the same in Michigan. I have almost 5 dollars worth of re-turnables at the moment.

      • dcl3500

        Sitting down here in Cumberland with about $35 worth of deposits. Man my wife drinks a lot of beer!

      • Noelle

        Yep. That’s how it works in Michigan, except you don’t get your dime back if you don’t return. I’m surprised when I see bottles tossed in the road or trash here.

        • http://www.flickr.com/photos/chidy/ chicago dyke

          i just moved from MI to TX and i’m shocked. all these bottles going to waste? wft?

          • Noelle

            Save ‘em and drive ‘em up here.

    • Renshia

      In Canada we have a great recycling program and up to .25 in deposit on some bottles.

      A friend of mine works at a small village landfill a couple days a week. In a month she collects between 100.00 and 200.00 a month in recylables that people would just throw out. There is a strong seven day adventist population and the god gave us the land to use mentality is strong there.

      • WallofSleep

        If people like Driscoll actually gave half a shit about the scripture they pretend to love, they would know that the god of Judea gave unto man this earth that we would be shepherds of this gift, not exploiters.

        If there really were a Jesus that came back, I think fuckers like Driscoll would have so much more to fear than skeptical assholes like me.

        • Renshia

          True! fortunately for Driscoll, jesus don’t work that way.
          Coming back would wreak havoc on the Sunday offerings.

  • Baby_Raptor

    “I have mine, so Fuck everyone else.”

    Typical fundie thought.

    • jsmom2

      Lot of that going around…

    • Rain

      I wonder what his take on smog is. It used to be a lot worse until people did something about it. People used to dump all kinds of crap into rivers too until the Clean Water Act. The Cuyahoga River had no fish in it for miles. It caught fire a bunch of times. What would Mark Driscoll do? Roast weenies? Thank you Jesus for giving us rivers to roast weenies with.

    • SecularPatriot

      “I have mine, so Fuck everyone else.”

      Typical fundie thought.

      Complete with the errant capitalization.

      • http://www.facebook.com/Hiyokah Mark Brewster

        It’s called “Emphasis”, shithead.

        • SecularPatriot

          HTML.

          It’s useful. For emphasis. You know?

          But hey, I thought Baby_raptor was just emphasizing the frequent errant capitalization of the religious. No reason to get upset now.

    • http://twitter.com/RezOKC Rez™

      “I have mine, so Fudge everyone else.” We don’t swear in this church. ;)

  • tanyam

    Let’s ignore him and use our outrage for something that matters.

    • http://absurdlypointless.blogspot.com/ Bubba Tarandfeathered

      Like passing legislation that bans the use of civilian vehicles of certain engine sizes and body weights? Or to a lesser degree passing legislation that prohibits the use of SUV’s other than their intended purpose.

  • http://friendlyatheist.com Richard Wade

    Selfish, self-centered, self-important, self-possessed.

    “My Daddy is gonna come home any minute now, and he’s gonna beat you up for not doing what I want. So there.”

    Daddy’s more than 2,000 years late. He said he’d be back within the lifetime of some of those who were right there with him. Are there any 2,000 year-old Jews walking around? I’ve seen pages and pages of apologetics trying to explain away that one single sentence, and the more the centuries of lame rationalizations pile up, the more obvious it becomes that it was a lie.

    • http://absurdlypointless.blogspot.com/ Bubba Tarandfeathered

      Wait isn’t Judas immortal?

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-W-Busch/578120211 Michael W Busch

        I think you’re thinking of the legends of the Wandering Jew / Joseph of Arimathea. Judas ends up thoroughly dead in the myths featuring him.

        • Drew M.

          According to David Niall Wilson’s novella, “A Candle in the Sun,” Judas became a vampire.

          So yes, he is immortal.

          And a quick search showed that he expanded it into a novel. The rest of my weekend just got booked solid.

          • Gus Snarp

            Also, spoiler alert, in the movie Dracula 2000, Dracula turns out to be Judas.

            • tina

              You people are stupid…Just saying…

      • Baby_Raptor

        One of the gospels says he disemboweled himself in a field. Another gives a different cause of death. So, I don’t think so.

    • Eddie2

      According to the book of Revelation, the new Jewish temple must first be rebuilt…Then, in Mark, Daniel, Revelations and other books, it says that the Anti-Christ will come to power, consolidate all the world’s governments under his authority, bring (apparent, but pseudo) peace to the Middle East. On the 3rd year of his reign, he will commit the “abomination of desecration” in the new temple. Start to worry once you see the new temple being built in Jerusalem. Coincidentally, from most reports, the material for the temple, in question, has already been forged, massive stones have been quarried and cut and the furnishings and artifacts are nearly finished for the new temple.

      • Tina

        Proverbs 3:5-6
        Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
        source: The BIBLE
        Enough said……

  • http://www.facebook.com/divinecovenant Joshua Allen

    Driscoll is known for his hyper-masculine antics and his hyper calvinist (i.e. deterministic) worldview. It’s no surprise that this came from his mouth. That’s not what is scary about the man. What is really scary is that his church is a few criterion short of being a cult.

  • Bob Becker

    Didn’t James Watt, Reagan’s Secretary of the Interior, say something similar? Before he was inducted for perjury in an influence peddling scanda , that is

  • Jasper

    “What’s the harm n letting people just believe what they want?”

    • http://absurdlypointless.blogspot.com/ Bubba Tarandfeathered

      There is absolutely no harm it doing that, and for the most part Atheists do not care what people believe or not. Mark Driscoll is exercising his right to use a luxury while mocking the suffering of other people. In my opinion that is a pretty arrogant attitude to take for a christian minister.

      • Baby_Raptor

        I beg to differ. There’s a lot of harm in it when people then act on those beliefs. For example, Driscoll and company deciding to just say Fuck the environment. This attitude is prevalent in Congress, and its stopping a lot of environmental initiatives. Or the idiots who believe in life at conception, and as such try and take away rights to abortion and contraception.

        If they just believed it, and had the decency to simply let everyone else live their lives unmolested, it would be very different. But Christers as a whole are very, very against the “live and let live” thing.

    • Mario Strada

      In this case quite a bit. If any of the congregants were saving energy in any way and after the sermon decided to screw it and go buy a Hummer, toss beer bottles out the window and vote for “clean coal” in the next elections, I would say quite a bit of arm.

      As far as believing in Jesus, again if it leads to fantastic beliefs in the supernatural it may be quite bad too. It may lead one to vote for anti science politicians that will cut funding on science but submit bills to have the bible used as a textbook. That kind of stuff.

    • cipher

      Because their “Goddidit!” attitude is causing us to fall behind in the sciences and is making us the laughing stock of the other developed nations, who absolutely cannot believe we’ve given fundamentalist idiots this much power.

      Because teaching children they are inherently evil and are born deserving nothing better than to be tortured eternally is a form of child abuse and shouldn’t be tolerated.

  • LesterBallard

    I wish the fuck he’d get here and get rid of these assholes.

  • observer

    Pardon my non-sequitur, but since God’s just going to “burn it all up”, doesn’t that make the whole “gay marriage will destroy civilization!” argument redundant?

    • Edmond

      Just because it’s God’s Plan to destroy the world, doesn’t mean they can’t blame someone for bringing it about, too. God wants to do it, but he needs someone else to be at fault.

      • http://www.facebook.com/tuibguy Mike Haubrich

        First it was Eve, now it’s Steve.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ed-Taylor/1540509434 Ed Taylor

        This is all crap anyway, because the Bible doesn’t say God will destroy the world again. He says he will renew it. Any careful reading of Scripture would show that God intends for us to spend eternity right here. So how we steward this world is of PARAMOUNT importance.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-W-Busch/578120211 Michael W Busch

          I approve of your apparent environmentalist ethic. But: Like in many other cases, the Bible is self-contradicting on this point. It says both that God will destroy the world again and that God will not destroy the world again. http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/earth.html

          • Joe

            Context, proper translation, and knowing how to read the Bible would clear some of this up. Not as black and white as this link makes it seem. Ed’s right and God is NOT going to completely demolish the world despite what a few verses pulled out of context might seem to indicate.

            • http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-W-Busch/578120211 Michael W Busch

              And who decides “how to read the Bible” ? The text is still ambiguous. You can use external information to resolve the ambiguities, but then why use the Bible at all?

              e.g. in this case, the Biblical God is not going to demolish the world, but that’s because the Biblical God doesn’t exist.

        • Seedsower

          Have you read 2 Peter?

    • Beutelratti

      No, because it’s okay if Christians do god’s job. How dare those gay atheist muslims do it for them!11!!11!

  • GregFromCos

    I’ve had some success on the global warming front with Christians. I’ve told several that I think their view on global warming will be the downfall of Christianity in the US. What will people say 50 years from now when the history books are written about why we would not take action. It may be manipulative, but over time I’ve seen several moderate their view on global warming.

  • GregFromCos

    The other tack I’ve heard Christians take is, “Who are we to think we can change God’s creation.” I’ve asked several fundamentalist Christians if they agree with that statement and they do. I’d be curious to see some polling on it.

  • jojo

    What was that about being a good steward? F you Driscol. Enjoy your made up religion.

  • http://twitter.com/arensb arensb

    The same “it doesn’t matter what we do; Jesus is coming back any minute” mentality also applies to core Christianity: precepts like “turn the other cheek”, “if someone takes your tunic, give them your cloak as well”, “the lilies of the field don’t worry about where their clothes come from and neither should you” are not good long-term strategies. They only work if you think you’re never going to need that 401(k), never going to need to avenge that slap on the cheek, because Jesus is going to return Real Soon Now and the world will end.

  • Alan Vallis

    We agnostics (aka bob-each-way atheists) need to keep our fingers on the deists’ pulse, so unlike most nominal Christians, we actually read the textbook.

    I seem to remember that Jesus said that they who bring ruin to the Earth will themselves be brought to ruin.

    Nothing about being let off the hook if you think the new millenium is due next week.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=597605006 Mary Driftwood

    Breaking news: Mark Driscoll is an asshole. Oh, wait….

  • WallofSleep

    “I know who made the environment and he’s coming back and going to burn it all up.”

    Heh, seems pretty nihilistic to me. Are we sure this dude is a christian rather than a satanist?

  • Hashbrown
  • Beutelratti

    This is one of the moments where I remember Donald Trump’s statement about the rest of the world laughing at the US because evil Obama… Sure, that must be the reason!

  • cipher

    This is one of the reasons they shouldn’t be allowed to vote. They’re a demonstrable threat to human continuity – not because they have a supernatural worldview, but because they have an apocalyptic one. When they care at all about the possibility of humanity and the world’s imminent destruction – they long for it.

  • cipher

    And if the people who walked out on him are so offended by him, why were they there in the first place? Everyone in Jesusland knows who and what he is. I mean, what – it took this to piss them off? They didn’t mind all of the stuff he’s said up until now about women, gay people, non-Christians, etc.?

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ed-Taylor/1540509434 Ed Taylor

      There’s lots of other good stuff at Catalyst that is not any of those things. Although I would have left as soon as they introduced “Pastor” Mark.

      • cipher

        My point is – why did they attend his talk?

  • SeekerLancer

    Driscoll is such a putz. He can go on about how much better of a “man” he is than me all he wants, I’ll take being a better person than he is any day.

  • http://www.facebook.com/Eileenmcano Eileen Cano

    I just want to note, this is not a Catholic concept. They don’t have the same “end of times” sort of craziness that Evangelicals do. Or at least, if they believe it, they don’t necessarily think it’s going to be soon.

    • Carmelita Spats

      Catholics believe in “redemptive suffering” which has an impact on the environment. I come from a Catholic country that is seething in poverty, illiteracy, horrible healthcare, dangerous levels of lead in the air, etc., and the grotesque Catholic pedo-cult continues to oppose BIRTH CONTROL options for women because “the pill kills”…This is NOT a “fringe” Catholic position but the official stance of the creepy Catholic fertility cult which believes that chemical contraception ushers in the DEATH of babies because it affects the lining of the uterus and disallows implantation of a fertilized egg….

      http://www.thepillkills.com/

      Case in point: In the southern state of Chiapas, we have tremendous environmental problems compounded by overpopulation and the dearth of BASIC resources. The RCC continues to mount campaigns AGAINST rural medical clinics that provide contraception to populations living in MISERY. The RCC stages BOYCOTTS of medical clinics among the local population…We all know that one of the basic ways to tackle this type of MISERY and environmental devastation is to liberate women from a livestock version of COMPULSORY breeding. The RCC wants people who are living in misery, not poverty, but MISERY, who are illiterate, to use the “Rhythm Method” which requires a knowledge of basic math and rigorous discipline. Hell, you have to be able to read a CALENDAR. This awful method has a very HIGH FAILURE rate among people who are educated and middle class…It is suicidal to push it on an illiterate population. The RCC’s policies are dangerous, highly immoral, and speak volumes about their interest in the environment, women’s health and the welfare of POST-BORN children. They are no better than the wide-eyed Fundamngelicals.

  • http://abb3w.livejournal.com/ abb3w

    Not too surprising. There’s a recent article out (doi:10.1177/1065912912442243) indicating eschatology contributes to inertia on global warming, and another (doi:10.1073/pnas.1218453110) indicating that “more conservative individuals were less likely to purchase a more expensive energy-efficient light bulb when it was labeled with an environmental message than when it was unlabeled”. This SUV nonsense would fit with both.

  • http://twitter.com/SecularAdvocate Secular Advocate

    The really big question is:

    How do we break the circle of circular thinking?

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1204115342 Bill Planey

      The sad truth might be: these Christians need to be outbred. Which escalation will only lead us more quickly to the planet’s demise…

      There’s a reason the opening scene from Idiocracy is as chilling as it is…

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-W-Busch/578120211 Michael W Busch

        No. Driscoll and people who think similarly are not lacking in intelligence. They are simply wrong.

        Idiocracy is complete nonsense. There are no marching morons.

  • Sue Blue

    I see this all the time in my rural neighborhood. Even though we live on a former homestead and are surrounded by natural beauty and one of the world’s only two temperate rain forests, these fine folks love nothing more than the buzz of a chainsaw in the morning, a dirt bike or unmuffled pickup truck at noon, and a burning trash barrel at night. Recently, there was much bitching and moaning about the county cracking down on people who let their livestock get too close to the salmon stream and who have ancient, leaking septic tanks. “I don’t care about the &@#$%% fish! It’s my @$%#%^*& land and I can do what I want with it, including shooting all the wildlife, cutting down every last tree, and shitting on the salmon.” They then blame bleeding-heart liberals and the local Native Americans for interfering with their God-given Manifest Destiny to swarm and consume like a plague of locusts. They’re all fundamentalist christians, while all the organic farmers and stream conservationists and recyclers and people with solar panels on their roofs are not. It’s an extremely telling dichotomy. I’ve even heard a few of them refer to people like me as “Prius-driving pussies”.

    I have to admit, coming from a christian background, that I don’t get this attitude. If I was a Creator God who’d given his “children” a jewel of a planet like earth, with such incredibly beautiful and diverse environments and life forms to treasure, and came back a few thousand years later to find it completely trashed by the ungrateful little bastards, I’d be royally pissed. I’d be tempted to let them stew in their own shit, or wipe them all out and create a new, human-free earth. Friggin’ ingrates!

  • JA

    So what happens if we do trash the environment, and then Jesus does come back, takes one look around, and then says, “Wow, you really disrespected my father’s creation, didn’t you? You know what? Fuck you all, you ingrates aren’t worth saving.” And then disappears in a column of light.

  • http://twitter.com/zedinbcLang Mary-Ellen Lang

    Disrespecting the Creation is disrespecting the Creator. Obviously, the “manly man” pastor has never acquainted himself with either Genesis, where God declares what he made “good!”, or the Book of Job, where God comes out of the whirlwind, and exclaims his great love and pride regarding the many non-human creatures He made. The dismal stupidity and ignorance of the “Christian” right concerning so many issues, including the environment is embarrassing. Treating the environment with disregard is akin to trashing an elaborate banquet that was made for you to enjoy. But instead, you wreck it.

  • Noelle

    He’s also the same guy who has said repeatedly that all families must live off a 1-parent income and that they should learn to decrease expenses in order to do this. It’d make more sense to drive as little as possible in this case, and use the most fuel-efficient vehicle when one does need to drive. Gas is expensive.
    But then sense and Mark aren’t known for overlap.

  • aDanishPerson

    Welp. I used to respect this guy.

  • jerry

    Haven’t they been saying he’s on his way for almost 3.000 years? In Any case this just confirms their total disregard for their fellow humans. You are the ones burning it up not some future visitor…..

  • RockyLanding

    This is more than offensive. It’s damaging.

  • http://twitter.com/gotoirelandwme Barbara Lewis

    I’m not sure what Christians you hang around with but most everyone I know, Christian or not, recycle; from the simplistic blue trash can provided by the community to three different bins for sorting or personal redemption to use the money for various ministries. It’s unfortunate that Driscoll makes a statement about his personal practice and translation of the gospel then others stereotype all christians as such.

  • http://www.facebook.com/eatabaga.dix Eatabaga Dix

    Amen! Preach the word, Brother Mark!

  • http://profiles.google.com/davydd.norris David Philip Norris

    Honestly, what is with this religious fetish with death and destruction?

    • Cuberly

      Its based on the notion that they’ve worked hard to be “true believers” to the detriment of their relationships and sanity. If Jesus doesn’t show up to prove them right that means they’re wrong. They have a strong desire for a christly finger wag at the material world so they can feel vindicated.

      Dominionisim is not a love, compassion or equality based religious practice. Its all about the coming punishment. And them needing to be the ones saying, I told you so.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=520351136 facebook-520351136

    Jesus came for the sinners right? And Sir, your lack of love and care of Gods creation is a sin! Are you not to be a good steward of Gods earth? When they separate the sheep and the goats and burn the goats up you’ll be the first piece of mutton on the grill… So what about the righteous unbelievers? There are such people. Actually millions of them… Would a loving God sentence them to eternal fire and damnation? You are so un-Christlike. You give him and his true emulators a bad name…

    “I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians.

    They are so unlike your Christ.” Gandhi

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7cq7G5Diq4

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jonathan-Tobias/1526136533 Jonathan Tobias

    This man has little to do with anything in the Biblical and Patristic tradition. He calls himself a Christian, and a Christian leader/preacher/celebrity at that. Which goes to show that anyone can call himself/herself anything.

    Mr. Driscoll — who hasn’t a clue as to what “pastor” means, either — knows nothing truly Christian about the Day of the Lord (which has a lot to do with how the poor and creation have been dealt with), or about the environment.

    He makes a lot of money and gets a lot of attention — this makes him a Christian leader/preacher/celebrity? This is insane.

  • Nordog6561

    “I know a lot of Christians will urge everyone not to take Driscoll seriously…”
    I would say to take him seriously, but only to note that he’s a serious (_!_) hat.

  • http://twitter.com/VK2YJS Julian

    This is the kind of person who turns people off Christianity, unlike real Christians who work towards reducing poverty, disease and injustice and in doing so also attract people of good will to Faith.

    • http://www.facebook.com/kristofer.wetherbe Kristofer Wetherbe

      Using the phrase “real Christians” is only going to make people discount whatever it is you have to say on the subject. There are tens of thousands of Christian denominations in the world and all of them think of themselves as “Real Christians”.
      Empathetic and caring Christians work towards the positive goals you listed.

  • http://www.facebook.com/andrew.bingnear Andrew V Bingnear

    I do not know about “chriistians” in general, I have mostly found this attitude in DOMINIONISTS

  • Pastafarian4Life

    fools think simply. “I’ll never be a chef at a five-star restaurant, so I may as well throw away all of my food” is the mentality here. What a tard…

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-W-Busch/578120211 Michael W Busch

      Cut out the ablest slurs.

  • http://www.facebook.com/roomidoomi Dustin Smith

    mark driscoll might as well we be a nihilist… christian? god wants us to be responsible for the earth. He probably would give a high five to all the people who whipped and crucified jesus because they were “doing God’s will”…

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tyler-Dirden/1809525770 Tyler Dirden

    KOOK! as a matter of fact mark it says the owner of the farm comes back to find the servants beating eachother and the vineyards in ruins…the garden spoiled, defiled…your hand as well as all modern mankind share in the sins of raping this planet…the garden we have abused…yep the Savior is coming back and is pissed because of the mess you help perpetuate Mr. Driscoll and Your minions…lord rebuke you satan…lord rebuke you satan

  • No to religion or politics

    Hope the 4X4 fumes rise to heaven and choke Jebus!

  • http://www.facebook.com/johnnywillisladiesandgentlemenjohnnywillis Johnny Willis

    if jesus is coming, all the fools of “faith” better open your gaping cake holes and prepre for…………GOD BUKKAKE!!!!!

  • the anti-christ(ian)

    This christian idea has been around since president ray-gun’s secretary of the ‘environment’ said not to worry. That jesus was coming any day. And that was over 30 years ago!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Keith-Cumbie/100000954828019 Keith Cumbie

    Driscoll is a self loathing closeted homo animal. He lusts for MMA….look it up.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-W-Busch/578120211 Michael W Busch

      Driscoll’s being deeply creepy aside: If you are making any sort of homophobic slur, stop it.

  • JWH

    This is annoying on a couple levels. If we assume for the sake of argument that a deity’s going to come back and do the judgment day thing …. that deity didn’t exactly leave behind a schedule. So there’s a lot of time to take care of the environment between now and then. Oh … and before my atheism showed up, I recall, there was something in church about being “good stewards of the Earth” until the deity shows up again. Sounds like a call to environmentalism to me.

  • Gus Snarp

    I love that Driscoll’s shtick is basically telling a bunch of tough guy wannabes exactly what they want to hear about how to be Christians, while he’s telling them that he’s telling them hard truths, things they may not want to hear, as if he doesn’t realize that the Christians who don’t already think like him don’t believe him or belong to his church.

    Not that that is much different from a lot of pastors, he’s just tapped into a new market for it who are desperate to be told that not only is it OK to be a macho asshole, drive a Hummer, treat the women in your life like possessions, and generally love violence, but that Jesus commands you to be that.

    He’s got to have shaped his church around marketability, it’s just so clearly aimed at a particular marketing niche.

  • Jen
  • Will

    Revelation 11:18 “The nations were angry, and your wrath has come. The time has come for judging the dead, and for rewarding your servants the prophets and your people who revere your name, both great and small– and for destroying those who destroy the earth.” God’s not going to destroy the earth, He’s going to destroy human government and civilization, then rule the earth which will be joined with heaven, forever. …Sad that people don’t get this, and that another of the legion of foolish Pastors darkens the world by falsely representing God’s word.

  • Bored

    Jesus loves you, Hemant! He loves you sosososososooooo much!!!

  • http://www.cgsociety.org PaulHellard

    I think we’re missing the point. God is bullshit. Mark Driscoll knows it. He’s just a shock jock bully.

  • pagansister

    Have no idea just what everyone else has said in the previous 110 comments, but I just want to say—I’m not holding my breath waiting for Jesus to once again make his presence known! One coming was more than enough! :-)

  • Dan Lowe

    The world would indeed be a better place if both Mark Driscoll and most of the commenters took a breath, maybe took a literary intro to the Bible course, and a glance around the world. 1. This is a fundamentalist’s perspective. 2. The Bible, Michael W. Busch, is a library. Stop reading it as though it were one whole book. Which, by the way, is also a fundamentalist’s perspective on Christian Scripture. If you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em? Or at least use the same tools they do? Can’t fix a window with the same hammer you broke it with. 3. There are many different types and stripes of Christians. Please don’t chalk us all into the same category and say, “That’s what THEY believe, as though we all were some huge think tank.”
    Just a little bit of sociology and anthropology would help folks to see that Driscoll is imposing his neo-Platonic, Western worldview onto a non-Platonic, non-Western set of texts. Unfortunately, Mr. Driscoll’s ape sized, concrete-esque skull doesn’t have room for someone else’s opinion. He is, though, still family. We just hide him in the cellar at family reunions and hope he pops a wine bottle or two back down so as to drown his arrogance in some humanity.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-W-Busch/578120211 Michael W Busch

      I am confused as to why my name is mentioned in your post? Of course the Bible is a library – it’s an arbitrary accumulation of texts written by a bunch of different people in several different languages over several centuries. It fact, there are many different Bibles depending on who you ask. That means that Bibles’ self-contradicting natures are expected. It doesn’t magically make them accurate.

      My point above is that when someone says “the Bible says X” and someone else says “the Bible says NOT X”, there is usually no rationale inside the Bible to say one is right and the other is wrong. You may impose other external criteria – e.g. “fouling up the environment is bad for everyone”. But then you aren’t using the Bible as the base of your ethics.

  • pauline

    We are stewards of everything God has given us. The preacher is not preaching a Christian message and should stop preaching!

    • http://IAmDanMarshall.com/ Dan Marshall

      Don’t tell us, tell him. Most people here probably agree with you that Mark Driscoll should sit down and shut his mouth.

  • GNL

    I may be wrong, but having listened to Driscoll a lot, he uses sarcasm often. It wouldn’t surprise me if these comments were made sarcastically. I am going to research the context in which his remarks were made.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-W-Busch/578120211 Michael W Busch

      Irrelevant. His words still contribute to a harmful culture.

      • http://IAmDanMarshall.com/ Dan Marshall

        Exactly! Even if he tries to claim it was a joke, I don’t think the people quoting it on twitter are joking. He is providing idiots with a way to justify their behavior.

  • http://twitter.com/Don_Gwinn Don_Gwinn

    He can have my minivan when he pries it out from under my cold, dead ass.

    I mean, I did once think exactly the same way, but that was high school. I believed a lot of ridiculous things for no very good reason in high school. I was a kid.

  • http://www.yeshua21.com/ Yeshua21.Com
  • http://www.yeshua21.com/ Yeshua21.Com

    Jesus is coming soon. As such, Christians have traditionally been taught to look for his appearing (parousia).
    But while the early church clearly thought that his appearing was
    imminent, here we are, 2000 years later, still looking… What’s up with
    that?

    http://jeshua21.wordpress.com/2012/12/21/jesus-is-coming-soon-parousia/

  • http://www.facebook.com/phill.lambert.1 Phill Lambert

    I hardly post on these things as I am unsure of who it might make a difference too, but right now I feel the urge to share this with anyone who takes the time to read. I think Mark Driscoll is dead wrong on this one, and I am a Christian. God gave us the earth to both enjoy and take care of. I firmly believe that this world will not be destroyed by God but fully renewed at his return. God thinks this world is good, and we were given it by him to enjoy. All of this is opinion and I have both reason and faith to back up my views, and I hope that in some way this might share some different views with others.

  • http://www.facebook.com/Hiyokah Mark Brewster

    Funny thing about “CHRISTIANS” — they’re actually following the signed/sealed/delivered, pagan-based cult formed by the Roman Emperor Constantine, a SUN WORSHIPPER. And the long-standing and erroneous concept of “subdue the earth” (from the English Bible), which they have misapplied into “pillage the earth” doesn’t even make sense form their OWN standpoint; their “Lord” is gonna give them a PLANET to TEAR THE FUCK UP?

  • Al Cruise

    Just like there is warning labels on tobacco products , saying they are harmful to your health, there should be warning signs outside these church’s saying ” Attending here will cause you to hate.”

  • natto

    I’m a Christian, and I recycle. Guess that excludes me from Christian culture…

  • http://twitter.com/rickthaluddite Richard Cole

    It will be the ultimate irony if Jesus comes back and says, “I love you guys, but Heaven is no place for vandals like you.”

  • http://plus.google.com/u/0/111051039748078110427/about novenator

    The wife of our local state senator stated that “god would fix climate change if it’s real”. Yeah, these people are so delusional that they are literally willing to destroy our world.

  • http://www.cgsociety.org PaulHellard

    Oh enough already. Just the facts please. 1. God is bullshit. Thank you.

  • http://twitter.com/RezOKC Rez™

    If someone wrote a work of fiction and included a Christian who said these kinds of things, The Christian community would attack them as being a persecutor of the faith.

  • Rick Lynn

    I was a Catalyst sitting by an exit and saw no one leave during his talk. Driscoll was making a joke, it was funny, and to try and make him into some sort of scoundrel is ridiculous. It appears to me that you are misinformed of the context and accurate information. By the way, he opened with a skinny jeans joke, where are your attacks for him hating men wearing their mother’s jeans? This post is nothing more than an attempt to demonize a man doing God’s work and not taking himself too seriously… learn from him and lighten up.

  • rampaging knee grows

    Driscoll is a total douche bag!

  • Rob M

    Just read this concerning Mark Driscoll – he’s obviously a lightweight:

    Mark Driscoll (charismatic, punk rock lover, blasphemer etc, etc.) 2 books with endorsements from him.

    http://www.ivanfoster.org/pdf/March1303.pdf

  • TucsonGuy

    this is a prime example of taking a joke out of context. Driscoll has said in numerous sermons that we are to be good stewards of the earth, not be wasteful, recycle, etc.He drives an SUV because he has a large family, hard to fit that many people in a prius

  • E.S.

    i thought god created the world. it’s really kind of his prerogative to destroy it, not mine.

  • http://www.cgsociety.org PaulHellard

    That’s just the thing ‘E.S.’ These zealots miss the point of our argument all the time. GOD IS BULLSHIT. It’s a lie. Jeez, you’d think Santa and the tooth fairy was true wouldn’t you?

  • born in east LA

    there is a king named marky mark, whose bite is worser than his bark
    he hardly uses jesus name, but trusts in money power and fame
    king marky’s house is built on sand, king marky’s kingdom will not stand
    he’s not afraid to cuss and storm, he’s not afraid to peddle porn
    his books are all the rage today,they may even outsell “shades of grey”
    all hail king marky and queenie grace, bow down or get punched in the face
    king marky’s kingdom’s mighty fine, he fires elders who wont fall in line

  • Stumbled on this

    I am a christian, and I know more Christians than not, who are very concerned about caring for our environment. The quote from Stuff Christian Culture Likes, made me laugh out loud with it’s absurdity. In fact the Bible teaches us to be good stewards of what we have been given. It makes me sad that so many people who call themselves Christians do not know what their Bible teaches. As for Mark Discoll’s comment– I wasnt there, but I have heard him preach in other places–but a lot of times he is joking or being sarcastic, and if taken out of context can totally be taken the wrong way. That being said, I dont always agree with what, and how he expresses things…but he is human like we all are. Nobody is perfect. Please do not generalize all Christians. You know you don’t like it when others do this to you.

  • hilary84

    Ezekiel 34:17-19:

    17 “‘As for you, my flock, this is what the Sovereign Lord says: I will judge between one sheep and another, and between rams and goats. 18 Is it not enough for you to feed on the good pasture? Must you also trample the rest of your pasture with your feet? Is it not enough for you to drink clear water? Must you also muddy the rest with your feet? 19 Must my flock feed on what you have trampled and drink what you have muddied with your feet?

  • http://jasonmorris.blogsome.com jtothamo

    I long for the day when people will simply ignore Mark Driscoll.

  • http://myspace.com/spaceoutlaw9 Michael Chevererie Dewey

    You may find this story very hard to believe but it will turn out to be true. I see it as almost our only hope of uniting people for common causes of turning around Imperialistic Foreign Policy so America can focus on being rebuilt from the bottom up: with things like Public State Banking to help fund States, along with getting worker owned Cooperatives off the ground. Those are the 3 important solutions I see to making America the example it is here to be, so we finally fulfill our calling of showing other countries how things are done right.

    And it will also shut up the religious right who have no clue about Michael arising in the flesh in Daniel 12:1, for he is the child of Revelations 12.

    If you want a reference I am almost sure that Jerry Brown of California sent my story all over the country back around 97, for I had run into people in my travels who had heard of me, and 1 even mentioned Jerry’s name.

    Quite a few people out in Vallejo California believed my story when on a trip through there at end of 97 and beginning of 98. The Relay Club spread it all over town after leaving my story with a 20 dollar tip.

    I’ll let this wordpress blog tell the highlights of the story. I do have over 65 thousand words written of my story hoping to finish and get published someday soon.

    http://leoburg9.wordpress.com/


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