These Christian Kids Think They’re Being Persecuted… Now Watch Them Get Called Out On It

A group called Reach America released a video last month called “The Thaw” — because “Christianity is being ‘frozen’ out of the… public square” and it’s time to fix it! — in which young Christians talk about how they are being persecuted for their faith:

Their questions are completely absurd (“Why can’t I pray in school?” “Why do they teach every other theory in science except Creation?”) and I was tempted to refute them…

But then I saw that Dusty had done it already far better than I could. Plus, his response channeled my inner monologue exactly… plus or minus 32943294 swear words:

Dusty, be my friend. I like you.

(Thanks to Ed for the link!)

About Hemant Mehta

Hemant Mehta is the chair of Foundation Beyond Belief and a high school math teacher in the suburbs of Chicago. He began writing the Friendly Atheist blog in 2006. His latest book is called The Young Atheist's Survival Guide.

  • http://twitter.com/docslacker MD

    So much facepalm in that first video.

  • raytheist

    I really prefer this response over Dusty’s. Dusty is great in his own way, but this guy actually responds without the ‘language’. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWeV98JIXko

    • Amor DeCosmos

      Yes, this version is a better rebuttal than Dusty the lunatic’s.

      • Roger Peritone

        Agree. Xians will take any excuse they can to dismiss or ignore what the atheist has to say: Profanity will give them that.

        On an aside, on that “Thaw” video, one more lie is the claim that america will be “under god” again. It was not “under god” until the 1950′s in the first place!

        • http://www.facebook.com/mikaela.perez.12382 Mikaela Perez

          Take a look at the declaration of the US

          • MD

            Sigh… The law of the land is the U.S. Constitution. I know that, and I’m not American. Go get an education. While you’re at it,read the Treaty of Tripoli.

            And also, it’s the Declaration of Independence, which was written to explain rebellion against the British Monarchy, not to establish a government.

          • Jesse Cooper

            Also, the original version did not include “under God”. Do your homework.

    • Free

      Thank you. A more humane response.

    • JET

      I like both videos and there is room for both. The target of the original Reach America video is teenagers. You and I might like the more intellectual rebuttal from The Barking Atheist, but Dusty’s rebuttal would appeal to the teenager who already knows these kids are full of bullshit and just wants to see someone call “Bullshit!” in a more humorous way.

      Realistically, neither one of these videos will change the mindset of anyone who agrees with the intent of the Reach America kids to establish a Christian theocracy in the U.S. Both will be seen by the young theocrats as heretical in their way of (not) thinking and only give ‘proof’ that they are being persecuted. These videos appeal only to those who already agree with them and are looking for confirmation. The value of the rebuttals is to show teenagers who already don’t buy into the whole ‘Army for Christ’ crap that they are not alone and that a couple of pretty cool people agree with them.

      • http://www.flickr.com/photos/chidy/ chicago dyke

        i agree.

        people who don’t like dusty don’t really understand what the cultural environment of most fundies is like. why should you? you walk among educated, literate people who use logic and science. which is, sadly, the minority in this country today.

        but dusty speaks the language of the fundamentalist. crude, filled with vulgarity, mocking… i think the man is a genius. he’s not speaking to us; he’s speaking directly to people who subscribe to the most illiterate and foolish notions of mythology, in their own crass terms.

        i’m not a big youtuber or person who tries to spread memes, but dusty is almost enough of a motivation to make me break a vow and sign up for facebook. he’s exactly what this nation needs.

        • Thundal Archsys

          There are many different approaches, and while personally I feel I’m best suited to attacking the causes of religion (poverty, ignorance, traditional-minded thinking), I love guys like Dusty and Dawkins for telling it as it is, as well as the direct, caring, focused, educated takes various others have.

          But stress relief is important, so I like watching people scream and shout, especially when I agree with them like this… it’s nice to hear.

  • rustygh

    That dude is sweet! ツ
    I was actually pretty early on feeling bad for these kids. F’ing Christian parents man!

  • maybourne

    Hmm, they want to found C-4 communities, and the first thing I thought of was the explosive. I guess that’s the point, to be a bit “threatening”.

  • maybourne

    I just had a look at the Reach America website it mentions, and when I first noticed the A symbol on it, I was confused as I thought it was Atheist related! It’s not, but I wonder if the possible confusion is deliberate?

  • Nilanka15

    Funniest shit I’ve ever seen!!!

  • honhol

    Ummm….his language does such a disservice to his message. That won’t inspire any “believer” to listen to what he has to say. All they’ll say is, “see what an angry, trashy-mouth” Atheist is. This Atheist had to stop listening.

    • corps_suk

      This atheist shared it and my atheist friends f-ing loved it…must be because We don’t give a sh!t about be evangelical atheists.

      • Free

        Huh!

      • honhol

        That’s great. i’m sharing my opinion. You don’t have to be so hostile. I’m glad you liked it, but that kind of thing doesn’t appeal to me and I think it does a disservice to our position. It makes us sound like a bunch of jerks, which is what public opinion is of us. This just reinforces that and so does your response to me.

        • corps_suk

          Cool thats your opinion then…leave US out of this.
          You are not me, I am not you, there is no US to make look bad…I enjoy belittling full sized children for their beliefs in imaginary friends.
          Its my opinion that people should fear a pissed off atheist, they should fear being ridiculed for silly beliefs, and they should totally fear the shame of trying to push it through government…I am a jerk, and ignorant believers better be ready for it.

    • Baby_Raptor

      Judging people because they use combinations of sounds that you’re trained to dislike simply because Mommy and Daddy said they’re bad is dumb. It just shows how shallow you are and how easily you’re willing to discount someone’s message.

      “Bad” words are a stupid concept. There’s literally no reason that these words are considered bad other than the general perception that they’re somehow uncouth, and that less educated people use them.

      Put your big kid panties on and actually listen to what people are saying instead of nitpicking stupid crap.

      • SecularPatriot

        While I’m not personally offended by Dusty’s language, I understand the communication barrier.

        I have no illusions that Dusty’s communication is convincing the fundamentalists or the already secular. The dialog we have between fundamentalists and atheists is primarily aimed at the fence sitting moderates and unwitting apatheists or cultural Christians.

        If we alienate them with language, pithy and stupid as that is, then we still lose.

      • http://itsmyworldcanthasnotyours.blogspot.com/ wmdkitty
      • JET

        I’ve never really understood why “screwed” is acceptable, but “fucked” is not. In modern slang they mean the same thing.

    • viaten

      I doubt it would matter that much. Believers that dismiss the message because of his language wouldn’t change their minds anyway. I expect many believers might watch video anyway, at least in private, getting their own kind of kick out of it and still “dismiss” it later. Some atheists as part of their style use language to good effect to accurately express how they feel and make their point more strongly as I think is the case here.

    • Timmah

      Dusty is not for everyone. I for one find him hilarious.

    • Artor

      Would you suggest trying polite reason? That doesn’t exactly work well on Xtians either. If you can look past the language, Dusty actually gives pretty well-reasoned criticisms. Buckle up and take some salt with your polemics!

    • Mario Strada

      In my experience politeness when confronting Christians gets interpreted as weakness.Best case scenario they think you are not as passionate about what you believe, worse case they think you secretly believe in god but you are too proud to show it.

      Dusty is definitely at the other end of the spectrum, but it is also his style. Dusty’s videos are all like that.
      Interestingly, I didn’t see many posts arguing with the points Dusty raised. Just his language.

  • Lurker111

    Well, I guess if you’re addressing high school students–where “f*cking” is the fourth article of the English language–Dusty’s words are appropriate.

    As I was laughing my way through this, I kept thinking, “C’mon, Dusty, tell us what you _really_ think!”

  • http://www.facebook.com/dirk.champlin Dirk Champlin

    he just gained a sub

  • http://twitter.com/meghan8000 Meghan O’Donnell

    If those kids in the Reach America video think that what they show in sex ed is “pornography”, I’d be interested to see their reactions to real pornography. Unless sex ed has changed since I was in school, and I’m not THAT old.

    • George Wiman

      They’ve probably seen real porn – every chance they get. But as Dusty notes, this video isn’t exactly a genuine expression of their original thoughts.

    • fsm

      I was thinking how repressed they must be if the sex ed books arouse them.

      • WallofSleep

        Aw c’mon. You remember what it’s like being a teenager swimming in hormones. A strange pattern in the kitchen linoleum could get you aroused.

        • Kellen

          Word.

        • Oldmammacat

          Seriously… lol… I could see a vagina on the church floor tile in the bathroom… does that make me a lesbian too?

    • hailey

      Gee, if sex ed constitutes as porn to them, they must not read their holy book. The bible is full of smut, including incest and rape. Makes sex ed look like a Leave It To Beaver episode in comparison.

      • Space Cadet

        And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.

        The writers really needed to work on building an atmosphere and using better descriptors. I mean, this does nothing for me.

        • midnight rambler

          You need to read deeper. Ezekiel 23:17-21:

          And the Babylonians came to her into the bed of love, and they defiled her with their lust; and after she was polluted by them, she turned from them in disgust.

          When she carried on her harlotry so openly and flaunted her nakedness, I turned in disgust from her, as I had turned from her sister.

          Yet she increased her harlotry, remembering the days of her youth, when she played the harlot in the land of Egypt

          and doted upon her paramours there, whose members were like those of asses, and whose issue was like that of horses.

          Thus you longed for the lewdness of your youth, when the Egyptians handled your bosom and pressed your young breasts.

          • Space Cadet

            I’ll be in my bunk.

            • midnight rambler

              Well, it does spoil things in the next part:

              Therefore, O Ohol’ibah, thus says the Lord GOD: “Behold, I will rouse against you your lovers from whom you turned in disgust, and I will bring them against you from every side:
              the Babylonians and all the Chalde’ans, Pekod and Sho’a and Ko’a, and all the Assyrians with them, desirable young men, governors and commanders all of them, officers and warriors, all of them riding on horses.
              And they shall come against you from the north with chariots and wagons and a host of peoples; they shall set themselves against you on every side with buckler, shield, and helmet, and I will commit the judgment to them, and they shall judge you according to their judgments.
              And I will direct my indignation against you, that they may deal with you in fury. They shall cut off your nose and your ears, and your survivors shall fall by the sword. They shall seize your sons and your daughters, and your survivors shall be devoured by fire.
              They shall also strip you of your clothes and take away your fine jewels.
              Thus I will put an end to your lewdness and your harlotry brought from the land of Egypt; so that you shall not lift up your eyes to the Egyptians or remember them any more.
              For thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I will deliver you into the hands of those whom you hate, into the hands of those from whom you turned in disgust;
              and they shall deal with you in hatred, and take away all the fruit of your labor, and leave you naked and bare, and the nakedness of your harlotry shall be uncovered. Your lewdness and your harlotry
              have brought this upon you, because you played the harlot with the nations, and polluted yourself with their idols.
              You have gone the way of your sister; therefore I will give her cup into your hand.
              Thus says the Lord GOD: “You shall drink your sister’s cup which is deep and large; you shall be laughed at and held in derision, for it contains much;
              you will be filled with drunkenness and sorrow. A cup of horror and desolation, is the cup of your sister Sama’ria;
              you shall drink it and drain it out, and pluck out your hair, and tear your breasts; for I have spoken, says the Lord GOD.
              Therefore thus says the Lord GOD: Because you have forgotten me and cast me behind your back, therefore bear the consequences of your lewdness and harlotry.”

          • Derrik Pates

            Or, you know, the entirety of the Song of Solomon. A whole book of the bible dedicated to a woman’s orgasm. Not even kidding.

    • Hat Stealer

      Sex Ed was possibly the most libido crushing thing I’ve ever had to go through. The third time after I sang the ejaculation song, I decided to become a lesbian. And I’m male.

      Of course, that was before we moved on to the female anatomy. *shudder*

      • Nate Frein

        The “ejaculation song”? Must have missed that…

        “Sex ed” for me seemed to consist of taking the sophomores out of their biology class and showing them photos of diseased genitalia.

        • SeekerLancer

          Yeah. I don’t know what people think sex ed is but at least when I was in school it was the furthest thing removed from pornography imaginable.

          • Thundal Archsys

            We had dildos in mine… we were taught toy care and stuff too (safety and normality of masturbation, especially female masturbation (because most guys were cool with themselves by that age)).

            I took a course over sexual psychology (which was somewhat-jokingly referred to as “advanced sex ed”), which, in addition to detailing the effects and warning signs of STDs, generally taught how to fuck, and fuck well, how relationships can be defined from a psychological perspective, how to have healthy views, and did actually include porn made by the professor and her husband. I mean, it was an opt-in and paid course and not part of normal (read: required) curriculum, and it’s certainly not what these puritanical idiots believe (and I’m guessing it’s a pretty singular thing), but it *could* happen, and more still it could be effective and beneficial, so even if they *did* see porn, I don’t see what the fuck the problem is.

            • Tess

              Why didn’t I get to take *that* sex ed class?! I had to read a textbook with no pictures and watch a video of a screaming Dutch woman giving birth…

              • Thundal Archsys

                Probably because you didn’t have a porn star as a health teacher…

                Though, really, I think more people should.

      • The Other Weirdo

        As we learnt in South Park, a male can actually be a lesbian. It just means he loves women.

    • rainbows for all

      These kids claim that sex ed starts in fourth grade. That is true, at least where I go to school. But in fourth grade basically what you are taught is hygiene, because kids start to develop at that time so as a girl I learned about deodorant and feminine hygiene products, pretty harmless and necessary stuff. Fertilization was talked about in 6th grade in order to explain pregnancy but in no way did the videos elaborate on the activity that results in conception. It wasn’t until 7th grade that sex was even really talked about.

      • mroge

        So once again, Christians lying…Eons ago I remember the little talk about menstruation in I believe 6th grade. No one considered that to be sex ed…and no parents got upset about it.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=600713998 Steven W. Phillips

    I’m not going to mention the total disrespect of the flag throughout this idiotic claptrap

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=600713998 Steven W. Phillips

    I’m not going to mention the total disrespect of the flag throughout this idiotic claptrap

    • http://parkandbark.wordpress.com/ Houndentenor

      Sorry for going off topic but I am sick and tired of people displaying the American flag incorrectly and thinking they are being patriotic. Every day I pass by torn, tattered and filthy flags that should be removed and replaced. (Interestingly enough, the only acceptable way to dispose of a flag is to burn it.) I know it’s been a long time since I was a boy scout but seeing flags being flown in the dark (they should be taken down at sunset unless there is a light on them), displayed backwards (when hanging vertically) and other basic violations of the rules for displaying the flag it makes me want to scream. I’m probably going to stop by one of those businesses with the inappropriately displayed flag and complain one day. I live in Texas. If some guy gets shot for yelling at a car dealership about their flags, you’ll know it was me.

      • http://www.flickr.com/photos/chidy/ chicago dyke

        i don’t get flag worship at all. it’s a piece of colored cloth. it can be significant, but dood. a large number of flags sold today are made in foreign countries by people who live lives that are the exact opposite of what the “american dream” is supposed to be. a flag has no feelings, no humanity, no need. it’s cloth.

        • http://parkandbark.wordpress.com/ Houndentenor

          You missed my point. (Also, I agree with you about flags being made in sweat shops in foreign countries.) My point was that it’s NOT patriotic to display the flag incorrectly. People want to make a big show of luvin’ Uhmerca and can’t even be bothered to put in the effort to learn how to display it. That’s what drives me nuts.

          • Stev84

            Making up idiotic, arbitrary and overly complicated rules on how to display a flag is precisely what unhealthy flag worship/fetishism is. It doesn’t make a damn difference whether a flag is flown at night and it doesn’t show any “disrespect” or means someone is unpatriotic. Same with elaborate rules on how a piece of cloth is supposed to be disposed of. None of it makes any sense. The so-called “Flag Code” is one of the silliest pieces of legislation ever.

    • allein

      Heh, you noticed that, too, huh?

  • DougI

    Other ways Christian fundamentalists are persecuted in America:
    1) They don’t get to park in the handicapped spots unless actually handicapped
    2) White guys other than the very Aryan Jesus are on our money
    3) Shares a holiday with an unclean cud chewing and probably unbaptized rabbit on Easter.
    4) Food is labeled Kosher, but not Christian
    5) Sunday is spelled with an ‘u’ and not an ‘o’.

    When will our persecution of Christians end?

    • http://twitter.com/aparticularA Robert Fuller

      I’m tempted to steal that.

      • DougI

        By all means, steal it and add onto it. I’m not a Christian so I won’t cry about being persecuted if you do. :)

    • marco

      :))

    • Miss_Beara

      Number 3, bwahahaha :)

      • Drew M.

        Yup, that one is especially brilliant, given that the bible mistakenly classifies them as ruminants.

    • JKPS

      Number four is my favorite! Bahahaha :D

    • onamission5

      I have a bright and shiny, brand new internetz just for you!
      Think I have actually heard #4 before in all seriousness.

      • DougI

        Yeah, it was some years back but some guy was actually irate that food wasn’t listed as Christian so he tried to market his own food line. Couldn’t find the story though.

    • Mairianna

      Let’s not forget about all those Sunday church bulletin discounts they don’t get at the local eatery anymore!

    • mroge

      That reminds me of a stupid conversation I had with a very incensed Christian woman who asked why are the pagans stealing her Easter and polluting it with pagan symbols! Duh, the Christians stole the pagan holiday!

      • ian

        Right down to the name… stealing her Easter??? How’s about Christians hijacking the pagan Eostre.

        • Lee Rogers

          I think what many people don’t understand is the history of the church. When Constintine made Christianity the state religion of Rome he combined the holidays to unite his kingdom. The same thing happened with Christmas. It was origionally a celebration of the winter solstice and the re-birth of the sun-god Mithra. We don’t actually know when Christ was born but this was a good enough holiday to hijack as any since it contained a re-birth theme.

    • http://essaressellwye.tumblr.com/ Hershele Ostropoler

      I’m reminded of someone a few years ago who tried to market “Christian salt.” So Good Christian Cooks [sic] wouldn’t have to use Christ-killing kosher salt, you see.

  • Bob Becker

    No, H. It’s not an effective reply to the video. As self-indulgent in its own way as “The Thaw” is in its.

  • Steve UK

    They’re like a child’s version of the Stepford Wives, completely robotic, they are just parroting their parents. Even I know, as a Englishman, that America was not founded on Christian ideals, even in 1776, state and religion were separate.
    These kids are spooky, please don’t let them be the future! By the way, it’s pronounced Raygan!!

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Voice-Sanity/100002296064154 Voice Sanity

      “The average man never really thinks from end to end of his life.
      The mental activity of such people is only a mouthing of cliches. What
      they mistake for thought is simply a repetition of what they have heard.
      My guess is that well over 80 percent of the human race goes through
      life without having a single original thought.”


      H.L. Mencken

  • http://absurdlypointless.blogspot.com/ Tanner B James

    Ad hominem tu quoque

    “Oho!” said the pot to the kettle;
    “You are dirty and ugly and black!
    Sure no one would think you were metal,
    Except when you’re given a crack.”

    “Not so! not so!” kettle said to the pot;
    “‘Tis your own dirty image you see;
    For I am so clean – without blemish or blot –
    That your blackness is mirrored in me.”

    “Maxwell’s Elementary Grammar”, copyright 1904.

  • Raising_Rlyeh

    So, a group that likes to thump its chest about loving the country, patriotism, and loving the flag decided that they would lay a flag on the floor while melting a block of ice on the flag?

    So not only are they liars, but they are also hypocrites.

    • C Peterson

      Hey, the ice was the only thing holding up their cross. Once the ice
      melted, the cross just wobbled and fell. There’s got to be a message in
      there somewhere…

      • Hat Stealer

        Don’t crucify people on ice?

        • Kellen

          Now I’m thinking of “The Passion of the Christ on Ice” and it’s all your fault. X_X

          • allein

            I’d go see that.

          • Little Magpie

            Oh no… can’t unsee that mental image :P

          • David Loewen

            Now I have the image of a crucified Jesus spinning around the ice, spraying blood all over the spectators. XD Yeah, I would definitely pay to see that!

          • Thundal Archsys

            Someone write this. I’ll design the spinning, sliding cross to hose down the audience in blood, but I need a script!

          • marcusgresham

            Now we can get a two-for-one answer and find out at the same time what both Jesus AND Brian Boitano would do!

      • allein

        I did find it interesting that the end of their “defiant” (or whatever) video they end on an image of the cross falling over and tilting away from the camera…

        • Willy Occam

          I just loved that (unintended) symbolism!

  • Rwlawoffice

    Thank you for the stark example of the intolerance of atheists like Dusty, yourself and others who agree with his antics. Really, you approve of a guy calling a young girl a m***ucker? Is that the new definition of tolerance for those that are Christian? And are you seriously claiming there is no attempt to silence Christians through insults and attempts at shamming, not to mention lawsuits in some cases?

    • MrG

      Christians who are this stupid and purposefully lie and mislead their audience should be shamed.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Voice-Sanity/100002296064154 Voice Sanity

        And shammed. ;P

        • Randomfactor

          Wow!

          • Space Cadet

            ICWYDT

    • unclemike

      Oh, won’t somebody *please* think of the children!!

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh2sWSVRrmo

    • Carmelita Spats

      Your own superstition is shameful. Atheists don’t have to do a damn thing…Your belief is ridiculous and merits no respect. Try this: Go to Home Depot on Sunday and explain to everyone how the Virgin Mary was impregnated by a Ghost. Then explain how Jesus was his own father. You are not silenced, you are free to approach anyone with your superstition just like any psychic, crank, Scientologist, drunk, delusional, maladjusted nutjob. If you are laughed at, it is not intolerance…It’s just that your beliefs are that hilarious. The lawsuits happen when your cult tries to indoctrinate OTHER people’s kids in a situation where they are a captive audience or when your TAX-EXEMPT cult decides that it won’t share the public space with OTHER TAX-EXEMPT cults or when it won’t restrict the creepy manger scene to its own TAX-EXEMPT properties. Quit martyrbating all over this blog. People have to clean up after you.

      Funny Jesus…

      http://www.jesusoftheweek.com/

    • http://www.facebook.com/travis.myers.102977 Travis Myers

      What do the three asterisks stand for in m***ucker? Shouldn’t there be more asterisks?

      • Randomfactor

        “omf”

    • kaydenpat

      Have Christians been silenced here in the US? Any examples of this silencing? And many commenters here have said that they are not comfortable with Dusty’s cussing. An alternative video is provided above.

      • http://parkandbark.wordpress.com/ Houndentenor

        If they are being silenced why do we hear about them all day every day?

    • Baby_Raptor

      Oh, my god. SOMEONE SAID THINGS AT YOU. AND THEY USED WORDS YOU DON’T LIKE IN THE PROCESS. YOU’RE SO ABUSED!

      I have no issue with him calling the girl a motherFucker. Why? Because I’m not someone who looks around for every single fault I can pin to people. Nor am I a shallow jerk. Words are words…He didn’t say anything different than if he’d called her a bimbo.

      And anyway, how is him calling this girl that any different at all than people on your side calling everyone sinners? Or calling gays horrible abominations? Or comparing pro-choice people to Nazis? Pot, meet kettle.

      Christians show this same “intolerance” to everyone who doesn’t believe as they do every day. Why is it okay when they do it? Oh, right….Because you agree with them.

      And if you can actually explain how this is an attempt to shame or silence someone, I’ll listen. The fact that you got saddlesore at what was said does not make it an attempted censoring.

      • baal

        “Words are words”

        eh, only kinda.
        I think Dusty is making sound that count as words but words do convey meaning. If they didn’t, we wouldn’t have racial slurs or attempts to reclaim some words like ‘slut’ (me!) or faggot (not me but totally ok with folks who want to use it for themselves).

    • Spuddie

      “And are you seriously claiming there is no attempt to silence Christians
      through insults and attempts at shamming, not to mention lawsuits in
      some cases?”

      Yes! What you call silencing everyone else calls criticism and calling out obnoxious, selfish and ignorant behavior.

    • Stev84

      If you are silenced why don’t you ever shut up?

    • Timmah

      I was not aware that calling out lies is a form of intolerance.

    • Artor

      I’ll repeat what I posted farther up the thread.

      The truth is that you are tone-trolling. You can’t refute his message, so you whine about his salty language. You fail.

    • Aspaceformyheart Awesomeblog

      If he were to have called her a “foolish imbecile” rather than another term which conveys the same unflattering appraisal of her intellect and character, would your opinion on the matter change? Is it just the choice of language you have issue with, or the underlying message?

      Because if it’s the former, then your argument has no substance. If it’s the latter, then you’re basically saying “You shouldn’t be telling people you think their behaviour is anything but meritorious”, in which case I think any reasonable person would disagree with you.

      • The Other Weirdo

        …in which case I think any reasonable person would disagree with you, you foolish imbecile.

        There. I fixed it for ya. :)

    • Mario Strada

      ook, Dusty can be hard to take. I’ll be the first to say he can be harsh. But that’s Dusty, it’s his style and he uses it across the board. It’s his persona, so if he used it against one of the people there, ;let me assure you he or she is in good company.

      Aside from the language, are there any actual points you wanted to make?

    • The Other Weirdo

      So, is it the substance or the delivery you disagree with?

    • Charles Honeycutt

      Thank you for the stark reminder that you sullenly stalk atheist blogs looking for things to misrepresent and lie about, while simultaneously proving that you have no ethics of your own, only perpetual feelings of persecution that guide your actions.

    • The Captain

      HA! “silence Christians through insults and attempts at shammin” how the bloody hell can those things “silence” you? Seriously, if you’re not doing anything to be ashamed of how can you be “shammed”? Are you seriously suggesting that xtians can only speak out if everyone pats them on the head and gives them a cookie for doing so?

      No, the truth is you know you’re loosing the market of public opinion with crap like this and are mad that people are no longer catering to you’re spoiled asses by giving you cookies for the stupid crap you say anymore.

      • Rwlawoffice

        Because there were a lot of replies I will reply here at the end of them to all of them. My point was that it is typical of most here to claim they are seeking tolerance yet when it comes to tolerating Christians such as these teens the response from a grown man is to curse at her and call the, names and he is praised for it. Not unlike calling people bigots or idiots if they are people of faith. It is a classic case of demanding respect but not giving it. Very typical and seen all the time here.

        Then there are some who claim that people of faith don’t deserve respect. And you can stop with the its the beliefs that don’t deserve respect argument because you fail to see that same distinction with Chrisit as waho love the sinner but hate the sin.

        All of this by the same group of people who are offended by the mere sight of a cross or someone praying in public.

        Bottom line this is a classic example of the one sided tolerance you demand. Christians are to take every effort not to offend you yet you claim the right to offend them and show the, disrespect.

        To answer your question little Dino, it is an attempt to silence someone when you don’t engage in the discussion but merely call names. Dusty’s argument is wrong and idiotic. There is no substance to it. He merely throws around the f word as if that gives his points substance. Merely stupid and crude.

        • http://absurdlypointless.blogspot.com/ Tanner B James

          Would you like chips with your red herring?

        • allein

          it is an attempt to silence someone when you don’t engage in the discussion but merely call names

          While you’re complaining about his language instead of arguing with the actual substance of what he said? I’m not offended by language; and while I think he could get a wider audience without it, I don’t think the folks who made this video or those who agree with it are really his target audience, either.

          Someone (especially someone with no authority over you) having the audacity to disagree with you out loud is not “silencing” you. Hell, I can tell you to shut up but you are under no obligation to do so (but, as you seem to forget, neither are the rest of us). (And you know this, I’m sure, but we’re not “offended” by religious symbols when they are on private property. Put your 60-foot cross on your church lawn; I may think it’s ugly but as long as it complies with building codes and zoning laws, I really don’t care. Just keep them off government-owned land and don’t use my tax money to pay for them.)

          • rwlawoffice

            Of course I understand that if you tell me to shut up you have no governmental authority to do it. However, the responses here as well as the actions of others like Dusty who are praised here are examples of attempts to silence through insults, shout down, shaming (spelled correctly this time) and trying to make it publicly unacceptable to express your faith.

            People who do this try to justify it but their attempts to justify doesn’t mean it isn’t happening and it doesn’t change the goal which to keep expressions of religious faith inside homes and churches.

            It is these same people that scream for tolerance and that all others should accept their beliefs and how they express them. And scream offense and hurt feelings when you don’t.

            • allein

              Freedom of speech doesn’t mean other people aren’t allowed to tell you they don’t want to hear it. Especially when your speech consists of lies as The Thaw video does. Dusty’s purpose is to point out where they are lying. You’re complaining about atheists “shouting down” the Christians, by posting a youtube video that the Christians don’t have to watch. Do you recall the Hindu prayer that was literally shouted down by the Christians, in the U.S. Senate chambers, a few years ago? You can get off your high horse about how you’re being “silenced.” At best, your side is no better.

              it doesn’t change the goal which to keep expressions of religious faith inside homes and churches.

              No, the goal is to keep expressions of religious faith out of government.

            • baal

              You’re still (intentionally, I know you’re actually smart and capable of reading comprehension) conflating window dressing with substance. Dusty somehow manages to avoid being hateful while he’s swearing up a storm.

        • Space Cadet

          All of this by the same group of people who are offended by the mere sight of a cross or someone praying in public.

          Holy fucking strawman, Batman! ( I went
          ahead and censored myself so you wouldn’t be distracted from the
          substance)

          Bottom line this is a classic example of the one sided tolerance you demand. Christians are to take every effort not to offend you yet you claim the right to offend them and show the, disrespect.

          Bottom fucking line is that we don’t demand Christians take every effort to not offend us. What we demand is that they not fucking lie, especially after the lie has been pointed out to them. Religion has been banned in schools? Motherfucking lie. Christians aren’t allowed to express their religion in public places? Motherfucking lie. What we demand is that they “tolerate” the truth.

          fucking motherfuckers

        • The Captain

          See this is why you are everyone thinks you’re such a thick headed dimwit. No one is “offended” by putting a cross on public lands, they are mad because it’s FUCKING UNCONSTITUTIONAL. Get it?! No one cares if you do offensive shit, they just care if you try to use the government to force your religious beliefs on someone else.

          Offend is not the same as forcing other to practice your religion. Which is what people like you try to do. For someone who claims to be in a law office you really need to get a dictionary.

          Also if you could send me your address I can mail you that extra hammer I have so you can nail yourself to the fucking cross of yours…. but you’re never going to get the last nail in you know.

          • rwlawoffice

            Where did I say that this intimidation and attempt to silence is only in relation to putting crosses on public lands? Never mentioned it once.

            The offense I mentioned that is claimed by some of the folks here is not just in relation to Christian symbols on government property. It goes to the very expression of faith. It is ridiculed in an attempt to silence.

            It is a lie to claim that the only thing atheists care about is Christians using the government to force religious beliefs on others. This video and Duty’s praised response is an example. These kids aren’t the government. They are expressing their beliefs and their plan to stand up for Christ. Yet in doing so a grown man acts like the school yard bully and attacks them to demean them and to shut them up. And then people like Hemant, who claims to be friendly and tolerant gives him an audience and praises his him for it. It is hypocritical and an example of the argument I made- that tolerance in this community only goes one way.

            • Nate Frein

              Because schoolyard bullies totally point out where the person they are bullying were outright lying, right?

              You (and all the other tone trolls) have yet to answer in any way for the fact that these children were lying, and they were getting called out on their lies.

              • Rwlawoffice

                They are not lying at all. There is nothing to refute. What they claim is happening and is the truth. What needs to be commented on is the response by dusty who acts like a bully calling these kids names in an effort to promote his atheist viewpoints.

                • Nate Frein

                  Lying’s a sin, innit?

                  Something about “bearing false witness”?

                  Or is that being quoted out of context, too?

                • Space Cadet

                  Okay, so let’s take a look at the first minute or so of the video.

                  The kids say, among other things,

                  Christianity is being frozen out of America

                  Christianity is, by far, the most popular religion in America. It has the greatest political power of any religion in America. It enjoys the greatest religious privilege of all religions in America. So no, sorry, it’s not being frozen out of America.

                  Why can’t I pray in school?

                  You can, and this fact should be common knowledge amongst our citizens, yet this lie is a focal point of the christian persecution complex.

                  Why can’t I write about God in my school papers?

                  You can, unless the teacher sets parameters for the assignment that would exclude, among other things, religion.

                  Why do I have to tolerate people cursing my god but I am not allowed to talk about God and my Faith?

                  If you feel that it becomes harassment, you have every right to report what you feel is intolerance. Likewise, you have every right to talk about your god and your faith until it becomes harassment.

                  Why are they taking god out of my history books

                  Because religion belongs in a religious studies class, not as part of a subject that deals with verifiable incidents.

                  Why do they teach every other theory in science except for creation?

                  Because Theories (capital T) aren’t debated in the classroom. They’re debated in peer reviewed journals and as those debates end, the information gets passed along to students. If you want your theory (small T) to be part of the curriculum, go through the process that all scientists go through. Religion gets no privilege, here.

                  Concerning the Ridgeland High football coach/team:

                  “He allowed local churches to feed his local football team (followed by gasps and the clutching of pearls)

                  This is a lie of omission. What they left out is that the preachers at these churches were allowed to proselytize to the kids while they were eating. From a website of one of the churches involved:

                  Bro. Larry Scott spoke to 65 people at this event and presented the Gospel of Jesus Christ. We praise the Lord for this important outreach event to our community.

                  The issue isn’t that the church was providing food. The issue is the conditions that came with getting that food.

                  So, just in the first 80 seconds of this video the kids present gross distortions of the truth and outright lies..

                  But please, go on about how there’s nothing to refute.

                • rwlawoffice

                  Your post is an attempt at justifying what is occurring, not a defense that it isn’t happening. Even your “lie of omission” is such an attempt.

                  You haven’t shown that these teens lied, just that you agree with the attempts to silence and marginalize Christianity through the examples they mention.

                  As for Christianity not being attacked and thus “thawed”, you are lying. It is everywhere you look that attempts are being made to silence Christian expression. It is done some through government action such as the HHS regulations and lawsuits against private citizens who are living their faith through their businesses. It is also done by militant atheists following the directions of their fearless leader Dawkins who instructs them to ridicule and shame them.

                • baal

                  “You haven’t shown that these teens lied” bull. shit. This is also why we express substantial negative emotion to you RW. Space Cadet did show the lies and so did Dusty. Your constant inability to recognize what is a factual claim and endless assertions contrary to reality are why we call you a liar.

            • baal

              But the “expression of faith” in ‘the Thaw’ is little more than lies and intentional mistruth. If that’s what you call standing up for Christ, then your religion is broken.

              I’m somewhat more interested in another basis for your argument – that Dusty (spelled right this time) is bullying silence from these children. I think you get to make that allegation but suggest you rewatch Dusty. He’s not actually intending those exact kids as the audience or target of his remarks. His remarks are to the Youtube audience. Further, Dusty didn’t make the editorial decision to put children in a video to make political points on behalf of his religion. bad actors are responsible for their bad acts but you also have to wonder about the ethics of parents who use their children like this.

        • indorri

          people bigots or idiots if they are people of faith

          No, I call them bigots and idiots if they are bigots and idiots. Your conflating “faith” and “bigotry” is not our problem. I respect people who are kind, regardless of whether they are faithful. I call people who intend to do me harm, regardless of whether they view themselves as kind, as bigots and malicious.

          Finally, let’s end this canard against “tolerance”. You pretend it was unqualified. It never was. It was never intended to shield unabashed intolerance. It was never intended to allow toleration of heinous acts. Karl Popper has already lambasted this argument. Make no mistake: tolerance is a means to an end, not a virtue in itself. If we let it be a virtue even unto tolerating active harm, we have turned that virtue into a vice and have joined in the harm-causing intolerance.

          Edit:

          All of this by the same group of people who are offended by the mere sight of a cross or someone praying in public.

          You have a flawed model. I am not offended by the sight of a cross nor by someone praying in public. While it is unlikely either of us have enough data to make a gross generalization of all atheists, it has been my experience that the objection is to these things being done on public property, or being endorsed by government officials or representatives in their capacity as government officials or representatives. I hold the same objection. Remember that other post about removing the Ten Commandments from the walls in a public school? A bunch of churches decided to give away shirts to students to wear to school. A decision I totally agree with. Heck, I encourage it. We need more examples of constitutionally protected speech so that people may understand what it is.

        • The Other Weirdo

          All of this by the same group of people who are offended by the mere sight of a cross or someone praying in public.

          I am not offended by someone praying in public. It’s no interest of mine. You, however, of all people, should be immediately offended by that. I direct your attention to Matthew 6:5-6.

          Christians aren’t supposed to pray in public, lest they be like the hypocrites who proclaim their faith in public.Whenever a Christian insists on praying in public, loudly proclaiming their faith to the world, they become the hypocrites that Jesus so railed against.

          • rwlawoffice

            When non Christians quote the Bible and attempt to tell me what it means I just laugh. This verse was not an instruction that all prayer should be in private. It was an instruction to pray for the right reasons and not for show. Read the verses around this one and you will see the proper context. But ignore them is you keep wanting to try and silence Christians from praying in public by mentioning false doctrine.

            • The Other Weirdo

              Really? Are you sure? Because that’s not what it actually says.

              Ah yes, context. Like Jesus commanding not to use vain repetitions in prayer like the Pagans did, and then proceeded to provide a repetitious prayer. Context. Check. The NIV is a little less obvious about it than the KJV.

            • The Other Weirdo

              Following with this excellent topic of context as it relates to Jesus’ commandments, we find ourselves with Jesus telling us not worry life, food & drink, our bodies or the clothes we would wear. Humans are, apparently, no better in the eyes of God than birds of the air whom God feeds by making them fly around and swoop down on things to kill them. Maybe Jesus didn’t notice that.

              Nor are we apparently any more important in the eyes of God than the flowers of the field. In Jesus’ opinion, humans are to do nothing, strive for nothing, achieve nothing, but hope eternally for death and the supposed life beyond.

              He made us meaningless, according to Genesis, and he wants us to remain that way forever. In other words, this is a religion of sheep herders without hope for any sort of better life.

              Context, it’s bitchin’.

    • Youllneverknow

      You’re a disgraceful human being, and no amount of time you spend arguing with atheists will ever justify your fearful faith, and lack of honesty.

    • baal

      Do you understand the difference between idiom and name calling?

  • primenumbers

    With all that crying wolf, there’ll be nobody that believes them when they get really persecuted.

    • http://parkandbark.wordpress.com/ Houndentenor

      There is real religious persecution around the world and some of that is directed against Christians. This just isn’t it.

      • primenumbers

        Absolutely, and this whining and lies does the cause of those really persecuted no good at all.

      • Spuddie

        But virtually all of the persecution in the United States is directed BY Christians.

        • Miss_Beara

          But that is their “religious freedom”.

          • http://parkandbark.wordpress.com/ Houndentenor

            Yes. If you listen to Christian radio, you’ll learn quickly that if they can’t force everyone else to pretend to pray, then that’s a violation of their rights. I wonder how they would feel if their children were required to participate in the Muslim prayers several times every day at school?

            • Aspaceformyheart Awesomeblog

              I WONDER.
              HM.
              IT’S QUITE THE HEADSCRATCHER ALRIGHT.
              THEY COULD GO EITHER WAY ON THAT ONE.

              HHHMMMMMMMMMM

              :D

  • Kyle Dreiling

    Give them some credit, sounds like they got Trans Siberian Orchestra to lay down a track for their video.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Voice-Sanity/100002296064154 Voice Sanity

      IME, Christians steal the music and if they can steal from atheists, they get giddy with joy.

  • C Peterson

    It’s sad to see these kids, presumably victims of parental abuse, with these views. When you’re just a teenager, you’re too young to be a loser, and yet, that’s what we have here… a roomful of losers.

    (And I guess that “salt and light melts ice” is the sort of science I’d expect from anybody who believes that creationism is science.)

    • David Chappy

      Um, actually….salt and light DOES melt ice…I am an atheist and a scientist.

      • C Peterson

        No, it doesn’t. Salt lowers the freezing point of water, which under the right conditions can make it easier to melt ice. To melt ice, you need to raise its temperature, and whether or not light will be sufficient to do that depends on the wavelength and intensity. In filtered light, as we see in the video, virtually all of the energy transfer to the ice is convective (with some conductive through the flag). Radiant energy- the light that we see the video by- was almost certainly an insignificant contribution.

        Put an ice block in the freezer, sprinkle salt on it, and shine a bright light on it, and it will happily stay frozen.

        Indeed, under the right conditions you could use salt and light to speed up the thawing of a block of ice. To simply state, as the doofus in the video does, that “salt and light melt ice” is not good science.

        • keddaw

          Continuing this line of pedantry one could say that heat doesn’t melt ice, except under certain conditions (i.e. pressure of approx. 1 atmosphere and temperature in excess of 273.16 kelvin. I’d be tempted to give them a pass on this one, Unlike Qu’ran literalists who think you can’t mix salt water and fresh water.

          • C Peterson

            Well, the kids in my middle school science class wouldn’t get a pass with something as glib as “salt and light melt ice”… especially if I thought any of them considered creationism to be science!

  • http://www.facebook.com/luis.eubanks Luis Eubanks

    I read a really good article about why Christians believe they are being persecuted the other day. It was by the author from the realatheism.com blog, but was guest posted here : http://www.faithisfraud.com/2013/05/16/guest-post-why-christians-feel-persecuted/

    • http://www.facebook.com/mikaela.perez.12382 Mikaela Perez

      Just look up voice of the martyrs

      • Derrik Pates

        Read Candida Moss’ “The Myth of Persecution”. You might learn something.

      • mdoc

        Mikaela, you don’t listen.

  • http://parkandbark.wordpress.com/ Houndentenor

    I’ll repeat this story. Sorry if you’ve heard it before. Someone that goes to church with my parents complained that “they are banning nativity scenes!” Really? That’s odd because I see them all over the place. There’s even a store in a nearby tourist area that sells nothing but nativity scenes. What they meant of course is that the city is not allowed to put up a religious display. No, that’s not the city’s job. the city should be fixing potholes and making sure the traffic lights function properly. Putting up nativity scenes is the job of the church, not the government. So then we drove past their church. Do they have a nativity scene on display? No. Not a single decoration. They aren’t being persecuted. They want the government to spend other people’s tax dollars to promote their religion.

    Also, no one can prevent anyone else from praying. It’s just not possible. One can pray any time, any where. We can’t even technically force anyone TO pray, although we could require them to go through the motions of saying a prayer out loud, kneeling, genuflecting or what have you. It’s ridiculous to claim that not having forced prayer in schools is keeping kids from praying.

    • Timmah

      Yeah they like to leave out the “On government property!” part. Attempting to ban nativity scenes on say, a church’s lawn would be grossly unconstitutional.

      • http://parkandbark.wordpress.com/ Houndentenor

        Yes and we should all be opposed to any such ban. That’s why I hate the use of the term “public square”. If we mean “on government property” or “paid for by tax dollars” then we should just say so. People sometimes take “in the public square” to men “anywhere in public” and that’s not a problem. People have a right to believe what they want and to express those beliefs.

    • AxeGrrl

      It’s ridiculous to claim that not having forced prayer in schools is keeping kids from praying.

      Can this be a sticky like, everywhere?

      I’m sooooooo weary of some believers lying about this.

    • The Other Weirdo

      In point of fact, Christians are commanded by their own GOD, no less, to pray in private, away from people, not like those hypocrites. Remember that, folks: any time a Christians demands to stand up in public to pray publicly, he is basically denying the words of his own god.

      • http://parkandbark.wordpress.com/ Houndentenor

        As with so many things, you have to wonder when someone feels the need to have their faith on constant display. The same goes for their masculinity, their sexuality or their virtue. What are they trying to prove and to whom are they trying to prove it?

        • Earl G.

          Exactly. And this would presumably count as “praying for the wrong reasons,” as the lawoffice troll tried to claim was the proper interpretation of the bible verse about not praying in public.

      • anonymous

        “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

        • http://www.facebook.com/anthony.provenzano.90 Anthony Provenzano

          That is one thing I don’t like about atheists and others who discount the Bible. Do you really believe that that passage should be take 100% literally?

          • TheG

            Then why take ANY passage literally?

          • Miss_Beara

            Another “See! See! That is in the bible thus it is true!” and then show them something they don’t like and it becomes “pfft, you stupid atheists, that isn’t suppose to be taken literally therefore I do not follow that!”

          • http://www.facebook.com/mikaela.perez.12382 Mikaela Perez

            People do take things to literally

            • Charles Honeycutt

              Feel free to explain the metaphor. No really, tell us how “don’t pray in public, because people who do that are just trying to get attention and aren’t sincere” is not to be taken at face value.

          • Matt D

            You don’t like the word of God being seen as something to be “taken literally”?
            So you agree with us that the book is a creation of men (thus not to be taken literally), and not god? Excellent. Welcome to the club!

          • maidofstarstuff

            Even taken as a metaphor, how do you reconcile that passage with Christians wanting to pray in public spaces? If it’s less than 100% literal does that then mean you should do the exact opposite thing? I never did receive my handbook to determine which passages to discard, which ones are metaphors, and which ones to use as an excuse to discriminate against other people with.

          • Charles Honeycutt

            Feel free to explain the metaphor. No really, tell us how “don’t pray in public, because people who do that are just trying to get attention and aren’t sincere” is not to be taken at face value. I’ll hold my breath waiting.

          • zippy123

            Oh – so you can pick and choose which parts to take literally depending on your own level of bigotry

          • David S.

            How to read the Bible and how it’s appropriate to interpret the Bible is all sorts of interesting. But we’re talking about a straight forward injunction from Jesus himself being taken in a not overly literal way; we’re not saying that Christians are hypocrites when they don’t go into their room behind closed doors to pray, but when they pray to be seen by others. If you don’t want to take this literally, there’s nothing in the Bible you can take as having any discernible meaning.

        • ray

          What passage is that from?

    • Mike De Fleuriot

      Next time you hear this nonsense story about banning this barn scene, take the idiot by the ear and show them the evidence. Then demand an apology for us.

    • Thundal Archsys

      The problem is that’s probably how they were told it, they know nothing about it, and don’t care to because they bear intuitive-based cognition instead of reflective, and it fits their worldview, so they accept it… the “thinkaboutit-ism” bullshit and confirmation bias.

      I hate stupid people… it’s not their fault, so it’s hard to take it out on them fairly, but that’s why we push education reforms and the like; So these fucks don’t spawn more of themselves.

  • http://twitter.com/ylaenna M. Elaine

    I’d love to know how many of these kids become Nones in college and facepalm at this video they did as a kid.

    • Roger Peritone

      I’d be more interested to see just how many of them make it into college (a non-xian) one, anyway, in the first place.

  • Space Cadet

    Does anyone understand the ending of The Thaw video? What positive (from their viewpoint) symbolic message was there in the cross falling over?

    • allein

      I was wondering the same thing. I was expecting it to “miraculously” remain “standing strong” after the ice melted.

      • Space Cadet

        Me, too. That would have been consistent with the rest of the video, I think. Maybe it’s one of those things where you have to be a believer to understand the deeper meaning. Or something.

      • Alice

        I was expecting it to glow with heat, and then ice chunks would fly everywhere or melt really fast.

    • http://www.facebook.com/mikaela.perez.12382 Mikaela Perez

      I am Christian and I have no idea what that was about… I think they are just trying to be cool

  • Randomfactor

    Christian “persecution”: “Mommy, they’re LAUGHING at us again…”

    • The Other Weirdo

      “That’s because our beliefs are silly, honey. That’s okay, though: we’ll hold on to them till Jesus comes back and kills them all.”

      • Space Cadet

        *looks at watch*

        Yup, Jesus is coming back. Any day now. Yup.

        *looks at watch*

      • Willy Occam

        “Thanks, Mommy. I can’t wait to watch all those unbelievers burn and suffer in hell for eternity when I’m in heaven with my holy father.”

      • Guest

        Then did he raise on high the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch, saying,
        “Bless this, O Lord, that with it thou mayst blow thine enemies to tiny
        bits, in thy mercy.” And the people did rejoice and did feast upon the
        lambs and toads and tree-sloths and fruit-bats and orangutans and
        breakfast cereals … Now did the Lord say, “First thou pullest the Holy
        Pin. Then thou must count to three. Three shall be the number of the
        counting and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou
        not count, neither shalt thou count two, excepting that thou then
        proceedeth to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the
        number of the counting, be reached, then lobbest thou the Holy Hand
        Grenade in the direction of thine foe, who, being naughty in my sight,
        shall snuff it.”

    • http://www.facebook.com/mikaela.perez.12382 Mikaela Perez

      Look up voice of the martyrs right now… See if you can still make jokes

      • The Other Weirdo

        What is it? A book? A video? I’d like more info before I go fishing in the InterWebz.

      • Space Cadet

        I did, and I will.

        You’d be hard pressed to find atheists, secularists or humanists that deny there is christian persecution…when looking at the whole of human civilization.

        When we rail against the christian persecution complex we are looking at Western society, and specifically in America. In America, christians are not persecuted, unless you’re counting ridiculing ideas as persecution.

        • mroge

          Ah but you see it is the slippery slope argument. If it is happening elsewhere then it MUST mean that it will happen here as well., just like gay sex will lead to bestiality and all the other paranoid conspiracy theories…these people need to get a life..

      • Earl G.

        The kids in the video are not talking about Christians being brutalized and repressed in other countries. The kids are talking about how the laws of the U.S. won’t allow Christians to brutalize and repress non-Christians in this country.

      • Charles Honeycutt

        Context is difficult, eh?

      • Charles Raymond Miller

        Do you really think the children in Thaw are martyrs? Did you really make that comparison? Think you just made Dusty’s point, in Spades?

  • Free

    Can’t you share your point without anger, swearing and spitting? You should withhold your comments about what is “truth”. Truth is relative. RIght! It’s not absolute? Then I can’t possibly care about how you see your truth.

    • Artor

      The Truth is that you are tone-trolling. You can’t refute his message, so you whine about his salty language. You fail.

    • Mario Strada

      Some “truth” is relative, other “truths” are not. When a kid says in the video “We cannot pray in school” (or some such) that’s an example of “truth” that’s not relative. You either can or cannot pray in school.

      The “truth” is that you can pray in school.

      Now, you could claim that your prayer in school has to involve everyone and be performed by students and staff anywhere and anytime during the school day. In that case you will indeed find limitations to your right to pray in school, but the same limitations apply if you wanted to play guitar or sing during school hours.

      The bottom line is that if you want to pray as described in the NT, you can. You may have to adapt your prayer schedule to the thing you go to school for and show some respect for your classmates, but the Truth is that you can pray, which makes the statement in the video a lie.

      Which commandment was that? The one about “false witness”?

      Here is another verse you may find helpful too:

      “And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others.”

    • Charles Honeycutt

      If you are more offended by people who use mean words to decry lies than you are by the liars, or even a thousandth as much, your ethics are deplorable. You should do something about them.

      Your grasp of the word “truth” is likewise fucking deplorable.

    • indorri
    • onamission5

      Sometimes you just have to call superfluous horseshit for what it is.

  • Scout

    Congrats for finding one black kid to help you out, but really, you don’t put him in the middle during the group shot so he can show how diverse you are?

    • http://www.flickr.com/photos/chidy/ chicago dyke

      haw! i had the same thought. “here, nigger. stand all the way at the side where the camera will barely notice you.”

      the white kids looked pretty unhealthy to me, to be plain. i wonder what other kinds of garbage they’re being fed.

  • cary_w

    Do they realize C-4 is a type of plastic explosive? I’m a little freaked out by their talk about being an “army” and fighting a war and then naming one of their goals after an explosive. They sound like they’re forming a terrorist organization. These kids are dangerous, they want to become the American Taliban!

    • http://absurdlypointless.blogspot.com/ Tanner B James

      we can only hope. because then they will get onto a terrorism list and be prosecuted as a hate group.

      • The Other Weirdo

        And then their hope of and wish for persecution will truly come to pass.

      • Thundal Archsys

        We don’t actually prosecute hate groups unless they’re violent…

        I mean, the WBC is still tax-exempt, last I heard…

        • Mackinz

          …Because it is not a “legal” hate group.

          It’s still considered a church/non-profit group that is acting upon it’s First Amendment rights and its freedom of speech.

          It’s just that they, though vehemently disliked by so many, haven’t done anything outside of holding signs and saying things. They stay well within the law, likely because, like, half of them are lawyers.

          Once they start acting upon that hatred, however, I’m sure they’ll be labeled as a hate group ASAP. They probably don’t want that, however. Then they couldn’t do what they do and say what they say without being arrested.

          • Charles Honeycutt

            Being categorized as a hate group doesn’t work in any way whatsoever like how you seem to imagine it.

            • Mackinz

              Actually, it works exactly as I say it does.

              Being classified (officially) as a hate group requires physical action. You can look it up, if you like.

              Merely spewing an incredibly unpopular opinion and waving a few signs around does not make the WBC a(n official) hate group. It makes them jerks and assholes but the freedom of speech does more than protect those whose opinions we side with.

              • http://itsmyworldcanthasnotyours.blogspot.com/ wmdkitty

                The SPLC disagrees with you, and they’re the experts.

                • Mackinz

                  And yet they are not officially recognized as such outside of the SPLC.

                  I’m sure we’d all like them to be officially classified as such, but they aren’t. They are, as of now, a completely legal non-profit organization that spews unpopular opinions and pickets funerals much to the dismay of everyone else in attendance.

              • Charles Honeycutt

                As noted, the SPLC is the authority on the matter. Feel free to Google them. It doesn’t work the way you describe. You’re describing a situation where people get thrown in jail for saying unpopular things. That is extremely rare, and never legal unless it involves them making direct, credible threats.

                • Mackinz

                  A hate group would not have legal nonprofit status and I highly doubt that it would still be considered a church.

                  I’m not saying that the SPLC is wrong in that that the WBC should be considered a hate group, but they are simply not treated like one by the law.

                • http://gamesgirlsgods.blogspot.com/ Feminerd

                  Do you deny that the KKK is a hate group? It is not illegal to be a member; indeed, it probably is a tax-exempt nonprofit. KKK members only go to jail if they, personally, break the laws, but they are not on terrorist watch groups nor treated as potential terrorists until such time as they cross that line into action.

                  It’s probably at least in part because the KKK is explicitly Christian.

                • Mackinz

                  No.

                  And the thing is, the more abhorrent of the several factions of the KKK likely aren’t tax exempt. I cannot say for certain as sources on this subject seem to be scare.

  • JC

    I love Dusty’s video so much! He’s saying what so many of us are thinking, but are too nice to say. Love it!

  • anniewhoo

    Why is it that Christians consistently feel the need to desecrate the US flag?

    http://www.usflag.org/flagetiquette.html

    • viaten

      Christians would rarely desecrate the US flag, much less feel a need to. But in this case, I wonder if they’re even aware they’re desecrating the US flag.

  • John_in_Vegas

    …one nation under God…again? Unfortunately it still is, but only since 1954–when it became part of the Pledge of Allegiance, 167 years after the US Constitution was written.

  • midnight rambler

    Okay, I’m far from a bully – I’m a 5’4″ guy and a science nerd, so I was usually on the receiving end. But if they give this kind of pompous, self-righteous crap in school, I can understand why they get it. I’d be tempted to punch one of them in the face if I had to listen to that BS all the time.

    Also, what a show of diversity! There was one girl with kinda-short hair and one or two boys who didn’t have emo haircuts. Oh, and off in the corner I think there was a non-white person?

    • Derrik Pates

      Is his name Token?

  • Frank

    The biggest fool of course is Dusty.

    • decathelite

      (Matthew 5:22) But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, ‘You good-for-nothing,’ shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, ‘You fool,’ shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.”

      Either you’re going to hell or the Bible is lying.

      • http://www.groverbeachbum.blogspot.com/ Neil

        Nice catch. I always hated that verse, just because there are so many fools. Makes it hard to live honestly.

      • Frank

        You don’t get angry at a fool, you shake your head, you get sad, you wonder how someone could be so foolish but there’s no reason to get angry at a fool.

        • decathelite

          So you pity the fool?

          • Frank

            Haha funny!

      • Frank

        A non believer is not a brother to a Christian, you should probably understand scripture before you quote it to prove a fallacious point.

        • Charles Honeycutt

          Given the context of the entire passage, you, Frank, are arguing that it’s okay to murder non-Christians because they aren’t your “brothers”. Additionally, you are arguing that JESUS said it was okay to behave badly towards non-believers. Of course he didn’t; that’s just where your dimwitted, desperate straining for an argument has led you.

          You should probably understand Scripture (it’s capitalized in this context, btw) before whining about it and making a hypocritical shitheel of yourself.

          • Frank

            No my point is that if someone wants to use scripture to correct someone they should understand what it means first instead of looking foolish. It’s quite ironic that some atheists who think themselves smart exposé their ignorance and stupidity instead. To be fair Christians suffer from this as well.

    • Charles Honeycutt

      You can’t refute his points, so you arrogantly insult him. how very Christian of you.

      • Frank

        There was nothing cogent to refute. There is nothing unchristian about calling a fool a fool.

  • fsghdfgh

    It would have been nice if he could have done so in a way that didn’t include all the swearing and crude language, then people might be able to show this to their kids. Hemant, perhaps you *should* make a video refuting this, in a more professional way that leaves out all the f-bombs.

    • The Other Weirdo

      Why? The Christians have for centuries used the biggest, most destructive f-bomb of them all: “y’all are going to hell and we are not, and we have to get you there faster”. They don’t even need to use it anymore, it’s so a part of the culture. No one ever complained. Now people are waking up and saying, “Whoa, fuck that shit.” All of a sudden, “Watch the language, buddy.” Well, to that I say, “Whoa, fuck that shit.”

      • allein

        But they use nice words when they say it, so it’s totally OK!

        • The Other Weirdo

          I dunno. “y’all gonna burn in hell” doesn’t really sound all that nice. I suppose it’s a point of view. :)

          • allein

            True…I guess they should really say “y’all gonna burn in H-E-double-hockey-sticks” if they want to avoid bad words.

            • The Other Weirdo

              Does anybody actually talk that way, other than in comedy shows, I mean?

    • allein

      If my kids were the same age as those in the video (middle-to-high school), I would not have a problem sharing Dusty’s video, because by that age they a.) would certainly have heard those words already, and b.) would have an understanding of where/when such language is and is not appropriate. Much younger kids, yes, I would find a more age-appropriate way to explain what is wrong with the original video. But that’s really not hard to do.

    • Mike De Fleuriot

      fsghdfgh, if that is your real name, how about YOU making that video, you would know exactly how to make it without icky swearing and covering the correct views atheists united should hold.

  • William Bell

    I like the thaw analogy, when the ice melts the flag gets soggy. Although I doubt that is how they intended it. :D

    • allein

      Don’t forget the cross falling over and rolling away from the camera..

    • Ozthinker

      a comment on global warming? oh wait, that they don’t believe in.

  • SeekerLancer

    Good old, “comments are disabled for this video.” The universal sign of, “I’m avoiding conversation because I can’t defend the points I’m trying to make.”

    • http://chaoskeptic.blogspot.com Rev. Ouabache

      Comments AND ratings disabled. The true mark of a fundie video.

    • Thundal Archsys

      There are times it’s useful or functional. But in a religious vid like this, yeah, it’s totally bullshit.

  • William Bell

    “his response channeled my inner monologue exactly… plus or minus 32943294 swear words:”

    Plus, definitely plus. ;)

  • David Chappy

    I almost feel sorry for these kids…not given a choice BEFORE being indoctrinated. And for not understanding that THEIR beliefs are NOT EVERYONES beliefs, and our NON BELIEF is JUST as WORTHY of respect as your BELIEF in an invisible man!! Whats sad is you dont realize WE are TIRED of hearing about the SAME OLD GOD STORY and blah blah blah about YOUR RIGHTS AND BELIEFS. We are tired of YOU persecuting US with your “youre going to go to hell if you dont do and believe what we believe” and judgmentalism. WE are tired of you being hypocrites. WE are tired of you forcing YOUR religion down our throats. WE are tired of you not understanding your OWN religion, which CLEARLY states you are NOT to hound people about your faith. If they dont accept you, “Shake the dust from your sandals and go on your way”. Chrisitanity IS a persecuted religion.IT has ALWAYS been a persecuted religion BECAUSE it is wacked out!!! It goes AGAINST logic, common sense, reality, etc… If you would only realize that YOUR religion is for YOU , NOT US, and it is meant to be a PERSONAL thing, NOT SOMETHING proclaimed to the masses who are trying to tell you WE ARE NOT INTERESTED!!!!!!! That is why it says, “WHEN YOU PRAY, DO IT IN PRIVATE!!!!” GET YOUR HEADS OUT OF YOUR ASSES AND “DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD HAVE THEM DO UNTO YOU!!!! If you WANT respect, GIVE IT!!!!

    • http://www.groverbeachbum.blogspot.com/ Neil

      I feel sorry for them too, but mostly because at least some of them are going to be embarrassed as all hell in a few years, and this vid may well still be around to haunt them. Going through high school without the internet was a blessing and a freedom that these kids no longer have.

      • JET

        So true. One of the scariest things about the internet is that whatever you do or say is there forever and accessible by everyone. You make something like this video that catches negative attention. Then someone isolates a headshot and makes it into a meme. Then Reddit gets hold of it. Soon your pretty little head is virtually spouting all kinds of crap… Scary.

    • baal

      Caps :(.

  • http://www.facebook.com/Boarczar Boarczar Zila

    The imagery of the THAW video is bewildering…at first I didn’t know what was all over that cross, but then I figured it out..duh, it’s ice, but after it thaws out…it FALLS DOWN, that seemed like a bad thing.

    • JA

      Maybe it’s a metaphor for Jesus falling into the U.S. once the “thaw” is complete.

  • http://www.facebook.com/richard.cote.986 Richard N. Côté

    It is exactly this kind of vile, obscene, ranting, raving, foulmouthed,
    anger-filled “humanist” / “atheist” who makes our idealistic movement so
    hard to promote sometimes. We have to hold to a higher standard of
    public expression than the “Cult of Dusty.” He is a disgrace to humanist
    and atheist ideals. His rabid attack rants are a disgrace to our
    concepts of progressive, reason-based rational discourse and kindness.
    We do not need — indeed, we need to totally reject his form of
    foul-mouthed zealotry, as it does considerable damage in the court of
    public opinion, which is where we must all stand and make our case for
    being more intelligent and compassionate than our opponents. Richard
    N. Côté, member, Secular Humanists of the Lowcountry and The American
    Humanist Association.

    • stop2wonder

      What exactly are “atheist ideals”? Atheism is simply the rejection of the god claim. There are no ideals to speak of.

    • allein

      Why are the atheists never allowed to just get angry and show it?

      • http://itsmyworldcanthasnotyours.blogspot.com/ wmdkitty

        Same reasons women, POC, and other oppressed minorities aren’t “allowed” to get angry about our oppression. (I’m female, and disabled, hence the “our”.)

        We’re supposed to just know our place and stay there, grateful for any scraps of decency and/or equality that are thrown our way.

        • http://www.groverbeachbum.blogspot.com/ Neil

          You’re as much of a liar as these christian kids. Nobody requires you to “know your place”…however, your pet ideologies in all their ridiculous, pseudo-religious forms, do not get a pass from skepticism, any more than christianity does. Maybe if more “social justice” activists didn’t rely so much on misused(or outright made up) statistics, artificial threat narratives, and lying and shaming and blaming and slandering anyone who doesn’t agree with you(especially if they are those evil, terrible white men), you would be taken more seriously. Grow up. You are no more oppressed than the average straight white man in western society.

          You are perfectly free to get mad, speak out, and rant all you want, as you well know…but if all you’ve got are male shaming, race-obsession, and a paranoid streak, you will be criticized. We “privileged” white men deal with this on a daily basis, it’s called being an adult who is responsible for what you say.

          • onamission5

            Because nobody knows what wmdkitty’s life is like as well as someone who’s never experienced what she has?

            • http://www.groverbeachbum.blogspot.com/ Neil

              You know, I suppose I was a bit insensitive toward WMDkitty. I know my response probably seemed a bit over the top and ranty. In defense, I’ve read (and sometimes responded to) at least several dozens of wmdkitty’s comments over the last couple of years, and sometimes the oppression drumbeat just gets old. I’m a lower-class(read: poor), 40 year old white man who has never willfully engaged in oppressing anybody. I do not know what her experience is, but I do have to ask: Where the hell do you live that you are so oppressed? I live in California, and for the most part people do pretty well here, even females, POC, and disabled folks. Most of my neighbors are women, POC, and disabled people, along with a few retired old semi-disabled white dudes…somehow, we manage to get along.

              In that spirit, the spirit in which I live my day to day life, I apologize for my harsh words, wmdkitty. I was a bit burned out and I spewed some shit that was not really relevant or even really directed at you. I am sorry.

              I can’t help but notice though….nobody minded when I cut loose on the uptight guy trying to promote civility….but as soon a I cut loose on the wrong person….anyway, maybe that’s for another day. Don’t want to spend all my straight white male cisgendered ablebodied neurotypical privilege in the same place.

              • onamission5

                That’s not how privilege works. Privilege is all the additional shit you don’t have to deflect, you don’t have to think about or learn about or deal with, privilege is having your circumstances considered the norm and other people’s circumstances divergent. Privilege is being free of the weight of all the things you’ll never have to carry. Privilege is not an inability to get along with anyone, nor is it that nothing bad will ever happen to you.

                • FBG

                  “Privilege” talk is just an old-fashioned guilt trip wrapped up in new verbiage.

                • http://www.groverbeachbum.blogspot.com/ Neil

                  Yes, I know what the concept of privilege entails, though it does in fact include both concepts of positive and negative privilege, not just “the stuff I don’t have to deflect”. I think it is often blown out of all proportion and used as a shaming tactic on individuals by people who think everyone else must have it better than them, and for no justifiable reason , or who just like making lazy group judgments. You think MY perspective or circumstance is the “norm” because I’m white in a white majority society? How the hell could you know? That only shows the narrowness of your ideology. I apologized for making unwarranted assumptions, but making unwarranted assumptions because “privilege” isn’t any better, especially since you know no more about me than I do about you or WMDKitty.

                  .

                • mroge

                  I don’t think you are personally oppressing others, but if you think that everything is fine and dandy in california you are mistaken. Because of the current political climate, the disabled are equated with being welfare “bums” and parasites. I have three disabilities: fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue syndrome and bipolat disorder. I was attacked verbally by a lovely Christian from my sister’s church because I was :”obviously’ faking my problems. Just because you can’t see my disabilities doesn’t mean they don’t exist. I had to quite a job I loved which sent me into a depression but then I am told that I should get a job. Since my only source of money is from social security it means that I have to worry about the national political climate, not just here in Ca. People are figuriively ready to lynch anyone who is on public assistance. Programs are being cut and I think I am justifyably worried that I could lose my benefits. Medi-cal will not even pay for dental care except for pulling a tooth.

                  As far as women’s rights are concerned. women are being blamed for breaking up familes simply because they may make more money than their husbands do! Never mind that most of them have to work to make ends meet! Are you seriously saying that women don’t have to deal with discrimination any more?

                  Further more even in liberal Ca gay rights are still being denied.

                  Just because you live on the sunny side of the street doesn’t mean that there aren’t those who still live in the shadows…

          • wanderer

            Are you serious? If you’re a straight white male how in the world could you possibly know what others who are not are experiencing? If you’re not a straight white male, I’m first of all shocked that you would say such a thing, and secondly still appalled that you would assume you know the experience of someone you’ve never met. Why hate on those you’ve never met?

            • The Other Weirdo

              We are human beings, not classes in a Java program, where we can only really know that one thing on which are based. We live in the world, we grow up in it, we learn things, we adapt, we grow. What you’ve just suggested is that straight white males are completely static, immune from thought and understanding, incapable of feeling empathy and are stuck in whatever bad time is for you.

              Using that logic, you can say, “You are not a Jew, how can you know what Jews went through during WWII?” As a straight white male Jew, I say FUCK THAT SHIT SIDEWAYS. That’s some fucked up Ken Ham logic: “Were you there?”

              You don’t get to tell me what I can know, what I can feel, what I can experience, what I can learn.

              • onamission5

                Nobody is saying you can’t understand it at all. What is being said is that you cannot understand it as well as the person who’s having the experience or lives under a set of circumstances that you do not, and therefore there are aspects of a given situation you may not fully grasp that they do, so in such a case it is best to listen to that person rather than tell them about their own life.

                • The Other Weirdo

                  Unless, it seems, they happen to be straight while males, in which case it is apparently perfectly okay to tell them about their own lives.

                • onamission5

                  Are you seriously making the argument from persecuted majority? Of course the lives and opinions of people who are overrepresented in both media and positions of power and who dominate most dialogue are going to be better understood than people who are underrepresented and sidelined. You sound like a Christian complaining about prayer in school.

                • The Other Weirdo

                  I am doing no such thing. You, on the hand, appear to believe that an over-representation in the media means a majority in the general population. And also what is seen of the lives and opinions in the media and positions of power reflects the lives and opinions of the general population.

                  By that logic, you can say that Barak Obama represents all black Americans in his thoughts and opinions.

                  White lesbian women can vote, too, you know. As can all members of society. They can also enter politics and achieve positions of power. More importantly, however, they can also enter professions that will serve to lessen society’s animosity toward certain groups, much like Jews had decades ago.

                • onamission5

                  “By that logic, you can say that Barak Obama represents all black Americans in his thoughts and opinions.”
                  No, but you can say that he knows what it’s like to be Black in the US better than you or I, just like we know what it’s like to be atheist in the US better than any given religious person. A disabled person knows better what they are up against than an able person does, so when an able person dismisses their concerns about accessibility as invalid, that can very well be ableism. So on, and so forth. Where did I say that all of X group was a monolith?
                  Yes, white lesbian women (don’t know why you italicized that) can vote. Did someone claim they could not? But where the vote is held and majority tends to rule, the vote of minorities don’t count the way the vote of the majority does. You know this already, seeing how many Christians tend to vote their privilege into law, and how pissed off you get about it.

                • The Other Weirdo

                  Are you sure about that? Reading up on Barak Obama, one realizes that he comes from an elite higher than most straight white males, let alone blacks in general.

                  If you’re a straight white male how in the world could you possibly know what others who are not are experiencing?

                  Here you go. If you can explain to me how this is to be taken as anything but a monolith statement, that would be appreciated. Of course, you didn’t say this. Then again, I wasn’t originally responding to you.

                  I italicized lesbian because the discussion originally was about straight white males. I was merely making a comparison.

                  Yes, I get pissed off at Christian privilege, but I also do not presume to equate a birth group(straight white males, as an example) with a choice group(Christians, as an example).

                  It appears to me that people who talk about straight white males generally mean that every straight white male is a member of some nebulous conspiracy and always acts for the betterment of all straight white males and the detriment of everyone else. These people also seem to assume that this is still 1952. I may also have misinterpreted the comment to which I was originally responding, and for that, I apologize.

                  But where the vote is held and majority tends to rule, the vote of minorities don’t count the way the vote of the majority does.

                  Straight white males can never be the voting majority so long as everyone else is allowed to vote, and actually does come out to vote. 4 years ago the U.S. elected a minority President. This shows that it’s possible and that least a few straight white males must have voted for him. Next election, if Clinton doesn’t do anything particularly stupid, it might even be a woman next.

                  Yes, gays and atheists have a tough time winning elections in the U.S. A few decades back, it was unthinkable that a black man should ever become President. Who knows what will happen next? Whatever power straight white males have had to keep all the choicest morsels for themselves and leave scraps for everyone else appears to be waning. Let’s not get in the habit of blaming straight white males for every one of society’s ills. It’s not good for anybody.

                  On the other hand, it’s possible I went off an ill-timed rant. Sorry about that.

                • http://www.groverbeachbum.blogspot.com/ Neil

                  It doesn’t require a “persecuted majority” to have your individual perspective ignored by society and those in power. And it certainly doesn’t keep people from making all kinds of wrong assumptions that can negatively affect a person. The vast majority of white people are not really represented either, at least not in any way that really makes a difference. Do think it helps me or privileges me in any way, to see white politicians lining up to vote against the interests of the majority of other white(and non-white) people? If that’s privilege, you can have it.
                  While the tiny percentage of people who actually have any great amount of power may tilt toward white, one: that is changing, has been changing, and is changing as fast as anyone can really expect, and two: that has shit all to do with the millions of white people who have no power, no money, no influence, and who are for all intents, in the exact same social class as the poor of other races.

          • Alix

            I am “too angry” and therefore dismissable if:
            -my voice raises even slightly
            -my face gets red (which it does at the least humidity, so)
            -I use even a mild swear word
            -I get terse
            -I bite off my words
            -I frown
            -my mouth sets
            -I am visibly annoyed
            -I sigh
            -I roll my eyes
            -I look away
            -I look someone in the eyes
            -I don’t look away
            -I tap my fingers
            -I cross my arms
            -I disagree even slightly with what the authoritarian jackass* I’m speaking with says

            Because everybody knows that pagan female-bodied genderqueer folk** should all be meek, mild models of politeness who never, ever let on that they’re anything less than satisfied with what their betters have handed them, and nothing except the most polite, perfectly reasoned arguments meet the high bar set for our behavior. (“Get off my foot, it hurts!” “Prove I’m stepping on your foot. Logically show me how it’s harm. Oh, and I don’t like your tone, so let me grind in my heel.”)

            And yet these same assholes think that they can yell, stare me down, hit me, spew curses, insult me, humiliate me, intrude in my personal space, or say the most vile things (with or without a perfectly polite tone), and I should just roll with it, because they’re allowed to be angry. Because anger for them is something I need to address and fix so they can live a pampered life, and my anger and hurt is something to be ignored, demeaned, and belittled.

            And, of course, I’m supposed to accept whatever handouts they give me with a smile and a thanks, while they do their damndest to strip me of all rights and refuse to recognize me as a human being.

            But the important thing here is that I not use naughty words that’d make your grandparents*** blush. Because maybe, just maybe, if I present a perfectly logical neat little argument with a perfectly demure demeanor and a perfectly polite, even tone, with a smile on my face and loving respect in my eyes, people like you might throw me a scrap.

            So, with all due respect, I have my nice little response right here for you: fuck off, you fucking asshole, and take your butthurt condescension elsewhere.

            *Usually but not exclusively straight white Christian men.
            **And every other configuration of “not the folks riding high on the hog.”
            ***Not mine. :P They swear like sailors.

    • http://www.flickr.com/photos/chidy/ chicago dyke

      Richard, i hate to break it to you, but you don’t speak for nor represent all of us. salty language doesn’t bother some of us, deal with that.

    • http://www.groverbeachbum.blogspot.com/ Neil

      On a person to person level, I agree. That’s why I’m usually nice to people. When deconstructing dishonest propaganda or dealing with committed ideologues, being nice is just asking for more lies and abuse. I suppose the DNC should just ask Fox News what they’re doing wrong, and try to communicate better? Spare me the drama and change your panties if bad words cause you so much agitation.

    • http://twitter.com/peacesong464 G.

      This is precisely why I won’t “share” this on my Facebook or Twitter. Obviously this guy is angry and that’s certainly not what the movement needs.

      • The Other Weirdo

        What does it need?

    • baal

      Athiesm is idealistic?

  • http://www.facebook.com/leslie.williamsburgoyne Leslie Williams Burgoyne

    I’m a Christian, and The Thaw offends me. I think one of the most offensive things is the placement of the cross on the American Flag. For some reason, that’s just disturbing, it smacks of pandering and manipulation.

    • http://twitter.com/peacesong464 G.

      Me too, Leslie.

    • threenorns

      for one, it’s setting the cross (or christianity) ABOVE the flag – pretty sure there’s laws about that.

  • ShoeUnited

    Sadly, I don’t share Dusty’s optimism about these kids. Religion is a hard habit to kick for anyone indoctrinated.

    • Vice-President Dink Cheney

      Twenty years from now they will still be bragging about the video they made to help save Jesus from atheists.

  • Ozthinker

    Maybe it’th a thaw point for them that chrithtianity ith dying

  • Karen Parker

    Awww, they won’t allow comments on their video.

    • JA

      SOP for a Christian video.

  • GHN

    Oh dear – all those young, white people – with one very obvious black person to prove that they aren’t racist – moaning about the unfairness of life. So they aren’t allowed to indoctrinate the pupils in the public schools in the US with their own brand of Christianity. A lot of people here express much better than I would be able to their irritation at the illogic and sheer mendacity that these kids spout.
    But I wonder – all of these kids moan and groan about the horrible (in their opinion) situation of their favorite religion in the public schools. But I would be interested in knowing how many of them actually go to those public schools they so despise. I’d guess that a lot of them are likely to be home-schooled, or at least go to some sort of religious school.
    So they would not know better…

    • islandbrewer

      And this video comes out of Idaho. Do you have any idea how hard they had to look to find a black kid willing to be in this video?

      • http://www.facebook.com/elizabeth.henetz Elizabeth Henetz

        it would have been difficult, to say the least and, having lived in idaho as a teenager, i can honestly say everything these kids claimed as happening at their schools was complete bullshit for starters, idaho doesn’t have sex ed and kids pray at school ALL THE DAMN TIME! the teachers pray, too i was constantly being prostelytized, EVERY FUCKING DAY and the list goes on the whole video was scripted, probably by someone who’s never left the state, and believes the bullshit they spew because fox told them so it’s all a crock, and it really makes me want to vomit >:0

      • Vice-President Dink Cheney

        They are all actors, of course. This is a pro job.

  • Robster

    Doesn’t “to reach” actually mean “to vomit”? I thought that recent Tom Cruise vehicle Jack Reacher was about nausea the reviews suggested it was…

    • midnight rambler

      I thought it was about Rasta zombies and the name was a pun on “Ja creature”?

    • Vice-President Dink Cheney

      No, they’d have called him Ralph Hucker instead.

  • Ona Luna

    <3

  • Sj Mills

    It was entertaining…for the first half. I enjoyed the “tough unlove” approach. (And that he’s swearing like a drunken sailor to the ‘innocent youth’.) Unfortunately, we know that method doesn’t keep kids from crime so it would not keep them from cults. He really doesn’t use many convincing arguments, though I completely embrace his rage.

  • Sam Spade

    So atheists are not “fundamentalists” too? I say that Christopher Hichens (where is he now?) and Richard Dawkins were as ‘fundamental’ about their atheism than any Christian is about their faith. And I don’t know about food being labelled as Kosher, but Halal meat is showing up a lot in our supermarkets and even in school meals (UK).

    And most Christians know full well, and accept the fact that Jesus had a distinctly Middle Eastern appearance. So quit hanging around with the inbreds in darkest Louisiana.

    In another 30 years from now, Christians will be the least of your problems. Islam is the fastest growing religion in the West. So when they begin to cramp your style somewhat, where will you feel safer as an atheist? In a church or in a mosque?

    • Mike De Fleuriot

      Oh, the Christian fantasy. Fear the Islam, atheists, you will need us good Christians to protect you when the turban wearing black folk come for you. Or something like that, but the truth is somewhat different, it is the theists, all of them, that are worried, because their world view is under threat, as these hand waving protests show.

      We, atheists, have the better more reasonable position, and people are starting to realise this, and accept this.

      • Vice-President Dink Cheney

        The Islamist can’t hurt you unless you already removed the barriers between church and state for your own convenience.

    • islandbrewer

      Hi Sam.

      Might I suggest you loosen the foil hat? It may be cutting off circulation.

    • Gus Snarp

      There are more atheists than Muslims in the U.S. right now. And there aren’t many of us. Last I checked Muslims were about 0.7% of the population. Whereas Christians are about 80%. The growth rate that would be required for Muslims to become the majority in the U.S. in thirty years is pretty much impossible (something like 380% per year just to reach the number of people that are Christian now, not compounding year over year because I don’t want to spend that much time on math that I don’t need to be doing).

      Plus, if you’re so worried about Muslims, then you should join us in fighting for a strong and high wall of separation between church and state. That’s what will protect everyone from whatever religious sect or denomination might become the majority or simply shout the loudest.

      • Space Cadet

        The Muslim takeover of America isn’t going to be done by something as slow as natural growth rate. No siree. There will be tens of millions of Muslims immigrating here over the next few years. Secretly, of course. And they will live in our National Parks. And somehow nobody will notice them.

        http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/muslim-plot-take-over-national-parks-exposed

        • Spuddie

          We have a Poe’s Law with this one.

        • threenorns

          i have a tinfoil hat i no longer need – you can have it. i think you need it.

      • Spuddie

        He can’t stump for separation of church and state. It makes it too tough for his people to create their own theocracy.

        Islamaphobic nonsense is less objecting to religious intrusion than it is objecting to who is doing it.

    • Vice-President Dink Cheney

      Apparently pretending that atheism is a competing religion is one of the ways Christians assure themselves they are a persecuted minority, but it also makes you look as if you think snakes are frogs and pigs are chickens. Hitchens and Dawkins are not rabbis or priests, and you just seem barking mad (UK) or completely sarahpalin(darkest La.). Islam cannot stand up to our exploding, aggressive culture any more. They had a chance until Gangnam Style, but now their children are doing the Harlem Shake. We win again.

  • martinrc

    And as always, comments are disabled on the video because they know they will easily be rebuked.

  • Fresh_Prints

    Those poor kids are in for a tough life if they think they have it so bad. But I guess a persecution complex is part of their religion so they will be happy being miserable.

    • mroge

      It promote weakness doesn’t it? “Lets not take on the responsibility of being good citizens and making the world a better place. We are VICTIMS.”

  • Sophy

    Well I liked it at the beginning but got tired of the swearing, He said what I was thinking in the language I was thinking it, but I wouldn’t choose to say it publicly that way.

    Swearing at ideas or institutions doesn’t bother me in the slightest. But I don’t like the personal attacks on looks and haircuts. (What is it with older men calling out 13 year old boys with long hair? Jealousy?) Any group of teenagers, bar those picked out solely for looks and groomed professionally for the camera, are going to look like a bunch of pimply dweebs one day and beautiful young creatures the next because that’s what teenagers are.

    I preferred the link that raytheist gave.

  • annag

    honestly, you guys are making atheists look bad with these reaction videos. sure it might be great for chuckles inside the community, but the second someone associated with this particular christian movement watches it gives them so much more ammunition.

    i guess i am one of those level-headed atheists that have heard this argument before (i live in texas)and that can have a decent, level headed discussion about topics like “christian persecution.” there needs to be more level-headedness. i know that flying off the handle for youtube feels good, but in the end it’s destructive.

    • Vice-President Dink Cheney

      Atheism is not a religion, and you may as well quit pretending it is. This guy doesn’t represent me any more than you do, and expecting all atheists to have the same take on things is like expecting everyone who goes to Disneyworld to be five years old.

  • Lambert

    The thaw has begun.
    ON THE POLAR ICE CAPS!

  • NathanExplosion

    This Dusty person if fucking awesome.

    How did I not know HE existed until today?!?! My god has failed me.

    All hail our Dusty god!!

  • Jorge Machado

    Christians are so used to having their own way, pretty much, in this country, that they are going mental now that there is a huge push back movement from unbelievers aka. sane people. hahahaha Pathetic

  • http://www.facebook.com/catmurray Cat Murray

    Oh my gosh this is so fucking brilliant.

  • Dave T

    I’d like to see these kids organize a day when they all pray in school, just to see the confusion on their faces when absolutely nothing happens to them.

  • http://www.facebook.com/jason.preston.37819 Jason JP Preston

    Was this video posted on their website? If it wasn’t this video would probably be useless. Plus this guy has some anger issues. To bad he couldn’t express him self in a similar and calm manner as those foolish kids.

  • Jimmy

    Oh the poor christian Children. In their tax free status world. Let us Pray.

  • sawc

    I enjoyed the music from the thaw

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1679043093 Patty Rowe

    I love Dusty Smith.

  • http://www.facebook.com/PARANOiA.Agent Peter Straub

    I just wanna know who wrote the cuecards that they were all reading off of, and if these kids even give two shits about what they’re repeating.

    • Vice-President Dink Cheney

      Please don’t swipe Peter’s name. He’s a really nice guy,

  • Jesus Christ

    Who needs the Bible when there are video games where you can destroy god? :)

  • Gus Snarp

    African Americans are overwhelmingly Christian, yet they managed to find only one black kid to put in their video. I wonder why that is?

    • Derrik Pates

      Wish I knew. I have to agree with Chris Rock, when he says “If you’re black and Christian, you have a really short memory.”

      • http://avoiceinthewilderness-mcc1789.blogspot.com/ Michael

        If you’re black and Muslim, you also have a short memory. Black slaves were held in Mauritania up to 1980, and still are illegally.

    • Vice-President Dink Cheney

      These are actors. They only need one token, as they have always been convinced that black people, like ducks, respond to decoys.

  • Derrik Pates

    If you really don’t like Dusty’s swearing (and I admit, he does lay it on a bit thick at times, but I laugh anyway), there’s this excellent dissection of the same video by a much calmer Brit, who points out many of the same defects:

    http://betteroffdamned.wordpress.com/2013/05/09/the-flaw-correcting-the-thaw/

    Also an excellent video.

  • http://www.facebook.com/chris.richards.37819 Chris Richards

    Ho. Ly. Crap. What cute little brainwashed children they are… Oh and if one more person says, “What happened to my country?” I am going to find them, drive to their house, politely knock on the door, tip my hat, and scream, “Its not YOURS, its OURS, and you don’t get to determine how the rest of us live! You. Poor. Brainwashed. Fool.”

    Oh, and pretty sure no white person who was born in America has ever experienced anything close to persecution. Take yourself back in time to a Roman lion pit and we can talk.

  • http://www.facebook.com/lindavanirpastels Linda M Vanier

    Love his answers but not the screaming and swearing . It makes us atheist look like jerks.

  • ant-eye-christ

    Dusty is pretty funny, and I agree with him for the most part, but don’t think it is good etiquette to call a bunch of minors “stupid m0th3rf*ck3rs”, no matter who the intended audience is. All those kids have access to the internet & will probably see this video at some point. He could have used more “logic” than four-letter words in this case.

    • threenorns

      i look at it this way: if they insist on playing dodgeball, they’re gonna get hit.

  • Jesus Christ

    Dusty is funny looking.

    ~The Messiah

  • Jessica

    Yesterday our kid came home and told us that some kids at school said we were “evil people who need to be shot” because we’re atheist.
    Now tell me again how persecuted the poor Xtian kids are?

  • Andre Villeneuve

    Dusty’s arrogance, vulgarity and anger speaks for itself. How anyone could give any credibility to such a man is beyond me.

    • http://avoiceinthewilderness-mcc1789.blogspot.com/ Michael

      The substance of the argument gives someone their credibility. A person’s attitude may be objectionable to some, but that does not make them wrong by itself. Many times I’ve seen many theists make arguments in vulgar, arrogant, angry ways, but it is the merits of the argument that count, no matter how much its style may annoy us.

    • Charles Honeycutt

      How anyone could be so vile as to think that mean words in response to evil actions are more repugnant than the evil actions is beyond me, and yet people like you exist.

    • Kevin R. Cross

      Vulgarity and arrogance may be flaws, but credibility comes from truth. Dusty has that in spades.

    • Vice-President Dink Cheney

      So, if he was wearing a suit and talking like a college professor, you’d believe anything he said, right? (Heck no, it would be ‘he was too slick and ingratiating’ instead).

      • Andre Villeneuve

        Your comment is totally fallacious and nonsensical. The way a person dresses says little or nothing about his moral or intellectual capacities. Likewise, a person’s eloquence of speech says nothing about his dignity of character. However, a person who speaks with such obvious arrogance and malice, and is unable to say three words without profanities reveals quit a lot about the dark state of his soul. I will listen to a bunch of kids whose logic might not be air-tight but whose heart is in the right place a million times before such an arrogant jerk. I personally don’t believe in a total separation between message and messenger. Sorry Dusty, I can’t hear your words over the screaming of your character.

        • Vice-President Dink Cheney

          You started well, but then you fell flat over ” I will listen to a bunch of kids whose logic might not be air-tight but whose heart is in the right place” even though they are actors handing you a propaganda message intended to modify your opinions. The slick ad with the well-groomed actors reached you, and the raw one with no script and genuine feeling was rejected; congratulations! You fell for the appeal to authority. Join us cool kids over here in the slick ad, because we obviously went to a lot of trouble to sell our product. Avert your eyes from the non-actor and his actual outrage, because we clearly have more character.

          • Andre Villeneuve

            Not at all. I did not relate at all to the content of the message. I just said that I will *listen* to anyone, whether I agree with the message or not, if the message is presented sincerely and respectfully. Anyone can disagree with “outrage” if he wants, but I am not interested in profanities and malice.

            Plus as far as the content goes, I do happen to agree with much of what the kids are saying.

            • Vice-President Dink Cheney

              Still, you prefer the slick ad over the real person any day, right? So shiny and beautiful and sincere. It must be true.

              • Andre Villeneuve

                No, not at all. It seems to me that the kids are “real persons” as well. The media form of the presentation is irrelevant. As far as the content goes, I do happen to agree with much (though not all) of what the kids are saying.

                • Vice-President Dink Cheney

                  Oh, so it was the confirmation bias and not the slickness? The kids are very likely either professional actors or carefully-picked; same slick result either way. So, if they’d been saying that Christians have it made in this country where they make all the laws and control the courts, you’d have agreed with Dusty when he cursed and said Christians are a persecuted minority?

                • Andre Villeneuve

                  There are two issues at hand here:

                  1) Format: Dusty is an arrogant and vulgar jerk. He is not worthy of being listened to, no matter what his position might be. The “slickness” of the kids’ video (or lack thereof) I find quite irrelevant.

                  2) Content: I happen to think that the kids are right on a number of points. Given their age, I don’t exactly expect flawless logic from them. But I remember my time in high school and how difficult it was to try to uphold and live Christian values without suffering a fair amount of ostracizing and ridicule from others. I must be much worse today, when you can barely express any opposition to homosexual acts without being bombarded with all possible insults.

                • RobMcCune

                  I must be much worse today, when you can barely express any opposition to homosexual acts without being bombarded with all possible insults.

                  Telling people that they or their friends and loved ones are have something intrinsically wrong with them does tend to get them angry, more so if you add more bigotry.

                • Andre Villeneuve

                  Genuine love between two men or two women has an ancient name: it is called “friendship.” Performing degrading acts of sodomy, leading each other on the path to hell, has nothing to do with love. Recognizing the intrinsic wrongness of the act is not dependent on religious beliefs; it is obvious to anyone who understands human anatomy and hasn’t trampled his/her conscience. Of course, this does not mean that you shouldn’t respect, appreciate and love the persons as persons.

                • Vice-President Dink Cheney

                  “Recognizing the intrinsic wrongness of the act is not dependent on
                  religious beliefs; it is obvious to anyone who understands human anatomy
                  and hasn’t trampled his/her conscience.” Oh, I get it. You are one of those weirdos who imagines that men who have gay sex are “looking for thrills.” Ugh, what can you be thinking? You’d have to be attracted to men in the first place to even consider . . . yech. So if two men having sex wasn’t so messy, you’d be ok with it? You do realize a lot of women seem to enjoy having a man use the back door, don’t you? NO DELIVERIES IN THE REAR has always been one of my rules, but I can’t deny a lot of people buy lube by the pint.

                  But since you don’t get it, try this one: you fall in love with a girl who has been in a wheelchair since childhood. You wheel her around and you learn about her life and feelings, and every day those twisted, pale legs look better and better to you, and when you finally marry her and make love to her, you overlook her body’s deficiencies and see her as beautiful and desirable. Same with a couple of hairy old gayboys, I reckon. Spirit transcends flesh when love is concerned. Heloise and Abelard couldn’t work it out either.

                • Andre Villeneuve

                  It’s not a question of attractiveness or attraction. Man and woman are ordered toward each other in a way that two men or two women will never be (so there is no moral problem at all in your example of the guy and girl in the wheelchair).

                  You seem to think that morality is entirely determined by a person’s own subjective whims and desires with no objective standard whatsoever. Does mutual attraction make something right? So if a guy and his younger sister feel attracted to each other, according to your rationale it would be ok for them to have sex, since the only standard of morality is their own desire and consent?

                • RobMcCune

                  Of course, this does not mean that you shouldn’t respect, appreciate and love the persons as persons.

                  Somehow based on your comment, I don’t think the degrading, intrinsically wrong, hell bound people without conscience or love aren’t respected or appreciated by you.

                • Vice-President Dink Cheney

                  “being bombarded with all possible insults.” Aha, he’s got ‘gay issues.’ Is it hard to keep your hands away from them? Urgent desire to interfere with them?

                • Andre Villeneuve

                  actually yes, like very many people I tend to think that the normalization and glorification of acts of sodomy, along with trying to shut down anyone who may have a dissenting opinion, will have a very negative impact and high cost on our society.

                • Vice-President Dink Cheney

                  You do understand that no amount of tolerance or hatred is going to change the percentage of gay people, right? It’s going to be no more than fifteen percent and no less than about 11 in most populations, no matter what society allows. If you feel strong, jealous emotions about what other men do in the bedroom, that is your private business, because feeling that way is a sign of suppressed tendencies. They can be fabulous all over the place for all I care, and it doesn’t upset me a bit. Better get used to it, because as the activists say, they’re here, they’re queer, and they won’t disappear.

                • Andre Villeneuve

                  Where do you get your 11-15% figure?

                  What people do in their bedroom is one thing; what they try to enshrine in law, leading to the indoctrination/confusion of children in schools and the coercive suppression of those who hold different views is another (here’s one of many examples: http://goo.gl/9uVPB)

            • http://gamesgirlsgods.blogspot.com/ Feminerd

              I went to high school with a lot of kids much like these. They are extremely sheltered (I was too, but not to that extent), generally have never known a day of hardship in their life, and are strongly discouraged from ever questioning authority. They plan, at this point, to be good little Christians and good little wage-workers and good little mommies and daddies (especially mommies- the girls are so shoved into motherhood it’s hard to stomach) and never, ever rock the boat. On average, at least one will be LGBT and have to either hide it or come out to a homophobic family. At least one will lose hir faith. Given their religiosity, at least one will be severely abused and/or be the abuser, because they will fall deep into the fundamentalist rabbit hole (Pearls, Fascinating Womanhood, etc).

              Besides, why would you agree with them? They’re factually wrong. That’s enough to tell me that I should not agree with them on much of anything, as I like my opinions and policy options to line up with reality. Their gullibility and persecution complex tell me they’re just not credible sources for anything. “I can’t shove my religion down other people’s throats” does not persecution make.

              • Andre Villeneuve

                I don’t really see the usefulness of your post, which is mostly speculative, putting the kids in a box as if they were all mindless robots. And honestly, I hardly ever see Christians “shoving their religion down other people’s throats” with the same level of aggressiveness that atheists are trying to remove God and religion out of the public square and trying to push their largely immoral agendas into legislation.

                • http://gamesgirlsgods.blogspot.com/ Feminerd

                  I hardly ever see Christians “shoving their religion down other people’s throats” with the same level of aggressiveness that atheists are trying to remove God and religion out of the public square from governmental bodies and buildings and trying to push their largely immoral agendas secular, reality-based policies into legislation.

                  FTFY

                  And given what I’ve read here and other places, those kids’ parents are trying to turn them into mindless robots. It’ll succeed some of the time, and it’ll definitely scar all of them.

                • Andre Villeneuve

                  It things were really as you corrected them, I would have no problem with that. But the reality is closer to my original version.

                • http://itsmyworldcanthasnotyours.blogspot.com/ wmdkitty

                  Again, show us the evidence.

                • http://gamesgirlsgods.blogspot.com/ Feminerd

                  Not so much, no. Atheists aren’t trying to shut down churches, make religion illegal, prevent street preachers from being obnoxious at various events, stop all prayer in schools, or make being a-religious a requirement for holding public office. We are merely trying to remove religion from in front of courthouses and inside public schools especially during school hours and/or led by government employees, get laws stricken that do require belief in God in order to hold public office, and hold churches and other religious buildings to the same (but no higher) standards as other 501(c)3 charities. That is not removing religion from the public square, that’s taking it out of where it should never have been.

                  As for secular, reality-based policies; first, a disclaimer. This is going to be painting with a wide brush. Not all atheists will agree with all these points, nor is there any requirement that they should. Now, with that said: atheists work for policies based off reality and evidence of what works. We support full sex education, because teenagers have sex and they tend to have much safer sex if they know how; it’s not the sex but the STDs and unplanned pregnancies that are the problem, and comprehensive sex education helps a ton with solving those problems. We support consent-based sexual ethics because those don’t shame anyone and do support healthy relationships and healthy self-esteem in all parties. We support science in schools, the fully falsifiable and verifiable kind, not pseudo-science like ID or anti-vax. We support vaccinations because they work; we abhor faith healing and other woo because it doesn’t work. We support abortion rights because we know that in the real world, sometimes it’s necessary and that we don’t have the right to tell another person what they can do with their body. None of these policies are immoral; they are, rather, based in secular ethics that value what works over arbitrary moral laws that actually hurt people when applied.

                • http://itsmyworldcanthasnotyours.blogspot.com/ wmdkitty

                  Citations badly needed, dude.

                • Andre Villeneuve

                  Citations? Just scroll up and down this page and see the amount of anti-Christian prejudice, scorn, vitriol, bigotry and hatred. Now imagine similar people in charge of schools, colleges, hospitals, and governments.

                  http://goo.gl/aYQXG

                • http://itsmyworldcanthasnotyours.blogspot.com/ wmdkitty

                  I don’t see any bigotry, hatred, or “anti-Christian prejudice”.

                  I see a lot of well-made points, primarily regarding the flaws of your belief system and our feelings about having your religion forced upon us.

                  I see some well-deserved scorn, yes, because you knowingly and willingly defend an organization that perpetrated a world-wide conspiracy to cover up the rape of children.

                  And if you seriously think any of that actually amounts to “hatred”, “bigotry”, or “persecution”, you need to get yourself a new dictionary, because those words do not mean what you think they mean.

                • Andre Villeneuve

                  Oh puh-leaze!
                  Sure, everyone here are lovely and open-minded, truly and sincerely open and interested in considering religious perspectives and worldviews with respect. NOT!
                  And as if Christianity is being forced on anyone nowadays. Utterly ridiculous.

                • http://itsmyworldcanthasnotyours.blogspot.com/ wmdkitty

                  *facepalm* You have no fucking clue what real bigotry, hate, and persecution are, you privileged asshole.

                • Andre Villeneuve

                  thanks for proving my point.

                • http://itsmyworldcanthasnotyours.blogspot.com/ wmdkitty

                  The only point you have is the one on the end of your nose. Having your privileges challenged and removed is not bigotry, hatred, or persecution.

                  It is, however, ending the unfair (and illegal) privileges granted to Christians at the expense of everybody else.

                • RobMcCune

                  Actually you just proved wmdkitty’s point. Getting called a name after your smarmy comment is about as bad as Catholics have it in the west. That you think being called an asshole proves your point just shows how out of touch you are.

                • Vice-President Dink Cheney

                  Oh, now you have burned him at the stake and cut off his fingers, I mean called him an a-hole. Look at all the blood and damage, I mean hurt feelings. Why, this is persecution of Biblical proportions. Jesus Himself is certain to appear and admonish you.

                • Andre Villeneuve

                  if you scroll back up, you will notice that I did not mention persecution even once. I was talking about “anti-Christian prejudice, scorn, vitriol, bigotry and hatred”. Thanks to you as well for confirming my point. Go to a Christian page and you will see that we actually have positive and constructive things to write about. Here the conversation is entirely destructive. You guys seem to be only interested in tearing down the faith of others, drawing laughable caricatures of Christianity that no sane Christian holds, unwilling or unable to engage in respectful conversation, obsessively magnifying whatever failures of Christians you can find while meticulously ignoring their accomplishments, etc… With your arrogant and malicious ranting and raving, you guys are one of the best proofs for the truth of Christianity.

                • Vice-President Dink Cheney

                  “laughable caricatures of Christianity that no sane Christian holds” The irony is palpable, my boy. Do you see any other Christians joining in to agree with your silly insults and paranoia? They apparently find you a laughable caricature. So, if this was a “Christian page,” you’d be willing to say something positive? And once again, if reading what we post is tearing down your faith, it couldn’t have been much of a faith in the first place. Welcome to agnosticism, good luck avoiding solipsism, and at least you can stop worrying about being a persecuted Christian.

                  This is like arguing with a high school kid somehow. Graduate already and get some new material for your comedy act.

                • Andre Villeneuve

                  I doubt there are many other Christians hanging around here. They probably know better than me. Your ranting does nothing at all to my faith. I am merely here trying to understand your perspective. What I was trying to say is that the Christian message is overwhelmingly positive, constructive and hopeful. The atheist message is overwhelmingly negative, destructive and hopeless.
                  I am perplexed at how you all seem to find pleasure in patting yourselves on the back here, laughing and scoffing at your self-created, imaginary caricatures of Christianity.

                • Vice-President Dink Cheney

                  “laughing and scoffing at your self-created, imaginary caricatures of Christianity” And now you imagine that I am your Creator, and I guess you’ve completely lost your mind, or faith, or whatever. Boring. Time for me to go back to my “negative, destructive and hopeless” life and eat strawberry shortcake on the porch with my wife.
                  “trying to understand your perspective” Imagine militant Muslims are all around you, hating you, and calling you names, and trying to convert your children. See my perspective? Please don’t suicide bomb me for not believing in your Holy Man of Peace. Or burn a cross on my lawn or blow me up with a bomb. Or fly a plane into my house.

                • Andre Villeneuve

                  You seem unable to write a single statement without completely misrepresenting what I said. I didn’t say your life was “negative, destructive and hopeless”, I said that about your atheistic ideology. I would hope that your life is somewhat inconsistent with your ideology, otherwise you should be a follower of Nietszche’s nihilism. I don’t know what the heck you’re talking about, re. imagining that you are my Creator??? I was merely saying that most people here on this forum imagine a ridiculous caricature of Christianity to then laugh at it and tear it down. Very good, I laugh at it too, but it has little to do with the reality of Christianity

                  Your Muslim analogy is also completely nonsensical. Someone disagrees with you, and you equate that with a suicide bombing??? When was the last time you saw a devout Christian launch a terrorist attack on someone who disagreed with them?

                  Enjoy your shortcake, it will surely be time better spent than here. ;)

                • Vice-President Dink Cheney

                  “as if Christianity is being forced on anyone nowadays” Tell all your friends and your employer that you have become an atheist. Watch what happens. We will gladly accept your apology.

                • Andre Villeneuve

                  I don’t know your specific situation but I can imagine that turning away from the ultimate Source of truth, goodness and love to embrace the type of empty and aggressive/vicious nihilism that is displayed on most comments on this page would cause some unhappy reactions. I would disagree with ostracizing you just because you don’t believe in God, but if I had an employee who spoke with your tone of arrogance I would probably fire him indeed.

                • Vice-President Dink Cheney

                  “if I had an employee who spoke with your tone of arrogance I would probably fire him indeed.” Ha ha, of COURSE you would, and you’d have some sanctimonious Bible verse to shout after him. So much for “as if Christianity is being forced on anyone nowadays. Utterly ridiculous,” right? You’d force it on anyone you had a financial advantage over with no remorse. Thanks for the admission. As if you have employees!

                • Andre Villeneuve

                  Once again you twist my words into something that I haven’t said at all.

                • Vice-President Dink Cheney

                  “”if I had an employee who spoke with your tone of arrogance I would probably fire him indeed.” Paranoia? Here are your words again. “Arrogance” meaning Freedom of Religion, I assume?

                • Andre Villeneuve

                  No, of course not. People are free to believe what they like. Perhaps I did overstate myself with my statement of firing. I just find irritating the very contemptuous and scoffing tone on the part of most commentators here, along with their manifestly infantile understanding of Christianity. Such attitudes (and I speak of attitude here, not of personal belief) would not be something that I would want to find in any employee working for me.

                • RobMcCune

                  Well you did try to justify anti-atheist prejudice, scorn, vitriol, bigotry and hatred.

                • Vice-President Dink Cheney

                  But he justified it with Jesuses and Bibles and stuff! That counts, right? You bore me, and I have apparently made you cry twenty times and destroyed your faith, and I’ve certainly tempted you into lying and insulting me over and over. Maybe I am a talking snake? or maybe YOU are Satan with a keyboard, making Christians look stupid?

                • Andre Villeneuve

                  No I didn’t. I hold no ill will against sincere atheists. I do, however, hold some ill will against atheists who spend their time maliciously misrepresenting, bashing and demonizing Christianity while making it obvious that they have but an most infantile and primitive understanding of it.

                • Vice-President Dink Cheney

                  “I don’t know your specific situation” I am the happiest man in the world, and I have everything I need except a million bucks, which I would spend saving my relatives’ behinds. I have nearly infinite patience, and I am talented at dozens of things. I’m also handsome and articulate and an accomplished liar. Most of that is true, and if you think I am “vicious” because I kick a barking dog like you, then you better hope you never meet a really mean person.

                • Andre Villeneuve

                  Yet another twisting of my words. I never said you are “vicious.” I spoke of “aggressive/vicious nihilism that is displayed on most comments on this page.” Good for you if you are happy, just don’t forget that you will lose all of that one day. What will your atheism do for you then, especially if you must then give account of your skills in lying? :)

                • RobMcCune

                  The only way most of the items in the list could be considered anti-christian is if you believe that christianity is a totalitarian system that must deny freedoms to others, or receive special privileges from the government.

    • MandoZink

      Dusty’s style and presentation are lacking, much cruder than I prefer to see in well-balanced refutation of a video full of badly misinformed kids. It is easy to understand why an “ad hominem” criticism would be likely. Dusty’s astute comments would have been better served by an more eloquent presentation. Had it been a more articulate performance, however, I suspect you still would have chosen a form of logical fallacy to deny Dusty’s factual observations.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies

      In any event it is quite easy to point out the illogical absurdity of these student’s assertions.

    • Lagerbaer

      That’s the ad hominem fallacy fallacy (sic). Just because the presentation is rude doesn’t mean what’s being said isn’t true.

      • Andre Villeneuve

        Though I understand the ad hominem fallacy, I find it problematic to entirely detach the message from the messenger, especially when it concerns the merits or demerits of a philosophy of life. Truth is not only conveyed with hard and cold syllogisms. If some lazy, obese and out of shape man would try to tell you about what is the best health diet and exercise plan for you, you would have a hard time giving him any credibility wouldn’t you? Would you not more readily believe someone who is in good physical shape, even if he/she is less articulate or rhetorically convincing?

        That’s why I will give a more respectful ear any day to a bunch of good kids whose logic might not be air tight before listening to such a foul-mouthed, arrogant jerk who needs to have his mouth washed with soap. Beyond the immediate question of the video (whether Christians are free or not to express and live out their faith) lies the greater question of what deserves to be promoted and what needs to be restricted in any given society. I will choose any faith or ideology that teaches love of neighbor, humility, and forgiveness before even considering whatever worldview that produces people like Duffy.

        Of course, I do realize that how the messenger influences the message goes both way, i.e. many people dislike or reject Christianity because of some bad example given by Christians.

        • Lagerbaer

          ” I will choose any faith or ideology that teaches love of neighbor,
          humility, and forgiveness before even considering whatever worldview
          that produces people like Duffy.”

          Even when that faith is demonstrably false? And who says that Duffy’s behavior is a consequence of his worldview?

          • Andre Villeneuve

            I don’t think the Christian faith is demonstrably false. And how could Duffy’s behavior not be connected with his worldview? Was he just having a bad day?

  • Jack

    “The most potent weapon in the hands of the opressor is the mind of the opressed.” – Steve Biko

  • Vice-President Dink Cheney

    OK, Christians, we admit it, your worst fears are true, and we are going to round you up and put you in concentration camps while we close your churches. Psych! It’s never going to happen. Go back to sleep.

  • ginalex

    This is what happens when a majority is allowed to exist in a country for too long. The Christians have had it their way for centuries and they still have it their way, but because we are now fighting back, they whine and tantrum like little kids. “WHAAAA, we’re being frozen out, except for the 80% of the people who are christians and the zillion churches and the TV networks and the majority of the US elected government, but we’re being frozen out, WHAAAAA”

  • joel harnett

    i have swag


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