A Public School Brought in Unqualified Christian Women to Teach Students About Sex… and Guess How That Went?

Let’s run through a short list of items a quality sex education lecture for teenagers shouldn’t include:

  • Having students spit into a cup and then telling the class that drinking that cup is the equivalent of having sex with eight partners.
  • Arguing that condoms break… so they’re not helpful at all.
  • Telling ladies that they’re emotional after sex, so they’ll become attached to whomever they have sex with.
  • Tell students that STIs will make them sterile… without adding that that might happen only if left untreated.
  • State that medical textbooks say life begins at conception… when they don’t say that at all.
  • Saying “There’s a new STD that they’re saying is going to be the new AIDS” without elaborating further… so no sex for anyone!
  • Telling the students that you know two women who have had abortions and they both ended up with a perforated uterus because of the tools used during their procedures… so no abortions for anyone!

Those were among the things Joi Wasill, the founder of Decisions, Choices and Options (a group with “strong Christian, Republican and anti-abortion ties”), and Beth Cox, who is on the board of directors for the group, said to a group of students at Hillsboro High School in Nashville, Tennessee earlier this month.

Joi Wasill (left) and Beth Cox

Thankfully, one of the students recorded the talk. Excerpts are below; the entire talk is at the bottom of the piece:

(In case the video isn’t working, click here.)

According to Heidi Hall at The Tennessean, Wasill also urged students who are pregnant to go to the Hope Clinic for Women, a Christian ministry, if they were pregnant and unsure what to do.

Dr. Mary Romano, someone who actually knows what she’s talking about, couldn’t believe this was being taught to students:

The presentation isn’t helpful, said Dr. Mary Romano, assistant professor in Vanderbilt’s Division of Adolescent Medicine. Its biggest problem is that it uses scare tactics. That never works with teens, whose developing brains too rarely allow reason to outweigh pleasure or believe anything bad will happen to them, she said.

“What you want to do is have the teen walk away with knowledge and skills. Teach me skills to negotiate that situation. If I’m going to have sex, who do I go to for information?” Romano said.

By the way, neither Wasill nor Cox have any certified training in sex education. Somehow, they still managed to get on the list of “approved presenters in Metro Nashville’s public schools.” Unbelievable.

Tara Culp-Ressler at Think Progress notes:

Tennessee students aren’t receiving those skills in their health classes. The state’s sex ed classes aren’t required to be medically accurate, and there’s nothing preventing public schools from hosting the type of conservative presentation that took place at Hillsboro High School this month.

So far, no one has been punished for this travesty. One school board member just figured the students would know fact from fiction (he didn’t, however, say it was wrong for the fiction to be presented to the students in the first place):

“Fortunately, I believe the Hillsboro High School kids are smart enough to separate fact from fiction and that some of the opinions and scare tactics used in the presentation they will know are incorrect,” he wrote, but he would need to know more to comment further.

Well, the full presentation is below, so Hayes and everyone else can judge for themselves:



About Hemant Mehta

Hemant Mehta is the editor of Friendly Atheist, appears on the Atheist Voice channel on YouTube, and co-hosts the uniquely-named Friendly Atheist Podcast. You can read much more about him here.

  • Gus Snarp

    She actually did the spit in a cup bit? In 2013? Why does it seem like it’s getting worse out there? Are we just hearing more about local stories thanks to the internet? All of this just tells me, in spite of being in a good sized city’s school district where things are generally on the up and up, that I need to be very vigilant about what goes on in my kids’ schools.

    • Michael W Busch

      Are we just hearing more about local stories thanks to the internet?

      This. US contraceptive use has been rising for the last two decades, although the US is still behind many places (e.g. Western Europe), so people are learning – although not as well or as quickly as would be optimal.

    • enuma

      I never understood the spit in a cup bit. It demonstrates nothing but the innate discomfort some people have with bodily fluids once we’re consciously aware of them and/or they’re outside our bodies.

      Imagine drinking a cup of your own spit. No one else spits into your cup. You just spit into your own until the cup is full and then drink it. When I imagine that, it makes me gag a little even though logically I know I’d only be swallowing my own saliva, a substance I unconsciously swallow over and over again throughout each day.

  • Gus Snarp

    Where the hell did they get the failure rate of 14% for condoms? That’s just outrageous. Were that even remotely true I’d have more kids than the Duggars by now.

    • 3lemenope

      Outdated statistics from old condoms. No, seriously, when I was growing up (mid ’80s) best info had effectiveness pegged at about 85%. Manufacturing consistency as well as design have gotten better.

      The base probability of pregnancy resulting from sex is actually fairly low, though (if you don’t pay attention to cycles and dates, on a random day IIRC it’s about 35%). You concatenate those probabilities, and it’s easy to see how even with just an 85% effective rate, preganancy probability is reduced to a very small number.

      • Dave Svoboda

        Sexual appetite in many women is HIGHEST at the most fertile time in their cycle. For many women, sex feels better without a condom, and certainly for men, so failure of the “condom BC method”, meaning “go without just this once” is concentrated in the middle of that 45% pregnancy risk figure. So it’s not a simple probability equation.

        • 3lemenope

          Adding BC into the mix makes the probabilities even more minuscule (BC, properly taken, has a failure rate of less than 1%, IIRC). I also neglected to mention the move to standardize use of nonoxynol-9 in pretty much all available condoms, which makes the rip rate less than the failure rate (as N9 on the condom may effectively kill sperm even if a tear introduces said sperm). You’re definitely right that there are many other confounding factors which make it a bit more complicated than a simple probability equation. For a first pass, though, it may suffice to illustrate why condoms can be effective at preventing pregnancy even with a high failure rate.

    • Baby_Raptor

      Me too. I’ve been having sex for ~12 years, and I’ve had a condom break once. (Thank Luna for Plan B.)

      • http://gloomcookie613.tumblr.com GloomCookie613

        Same here. Condoms and bc combo, but only ever had one condom break in the same number of years. Wasn’t on BC when that happened so thank the gourd for Plan B indeed!

      • Gus Snarp

        While we’re being anecdotal, I’ve been sexually active for twenty years and have used condoms (albeit with spermicidal lubricant) exclusively for that entire time. This process has resulted in zero pregnancies (except the two intended pregnancies, in which case condoms were obviously not used) and zero broken condoms. I think the latex condom is pretty much the greatest thing ever, and anyone having vaginal intercourse not intending to make a baby should use one, and anyone having any other kind of penetrative sex with a non-monogamous partner ought to be using one, correctly, every time. Additional birth control methods should be used alongside when possible, but I’ve happened to have partners who had extremely unpleasant reactions to the pill, so we counted on the spermicide as backup, which has worked so far (although I really should make that appointment with the urologist soon).

        • guest

          Not everyone can use condoms. Some of us have extreme allergies to things like latex, making condoms out of the question. This is why information is so important. We need to know how to monitor fertility as well.

      • 3lemenope

        Most breaks that lead to failure are microscopic (“micro-tears”), and are thus not apparent to a personal optical inspection.

        • James Power

          What you may not know is that the male body, specifically the penis organ, has a process to, you know – when the micro-tear occurs, shut that whole thing down, and self sterilize. This is why there are no unwanted pregnancies.

          • 3lemenope

            LOL.

          • http://gamesgirlsgods.blogspot.com/ Feminerd

            +1 Internets for you!

          • What Now

            BRavo!
            Enjoyed the sarcasm.

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=533047900 Terence ‘Clench’ McPiehole

          Odd that should happen when each and every one is quality controlled using a conductance test before being packaged, There simply are no tears in the product when it’s sold.

          • 3lemenope

            Friction is a bitch.

            • Heina Dadabhoy

              Lube. Also turning your partner on. Have you heard of these things?

              • 3lemenope

                Yes, I have.

                I really, really don’t get all the snide sarcasm directed my way. Is pointing out that “I’ve never had a condom tear in all my years” is a silly anecdotal metric because most condom failures are smaller than the eye can detect such a horrible thing? As I noted above, the 85% is old, and Condoms+N9+BC is pretty much ironclad. Why do people get so peevish and whiny about inconvenient facts when they have an avalanche of their own that has the case long closed?

              • Maggie Winnike

                I’ve always tried to point out to friends that have had condoms break that if you take a small amount of lube both inside and outside the condom it greatly reduces the likelihood of having it break.

    • Michael W Busch

      That’s about the typical-use failure-rate per year for people using condoms and no other contraceptive method (ref. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_birth_control_methods ). There are ways to improve that significantly – such as teaching people how to properly use condoms. And if they were representing 15% as the failure rate per use, that would be criminally misleading.

      There are far better contraceptive options than condoms, both hormonal and non-hormonal, but condoms and the other barrier methods are important for reducing STI rates. The indicated procedure is to combine methods.

    • JCC

      I’ve been sexually active for 35 years and I’ve NEVER had a condom break !!!

      • Gus Snarp

        I’ve filled them with water or air before. They’re damned resilient things. I don’t know how the hell you break them through intercourse.

        • ObserverDC

          Friction, mostly. I worked at the FDA CDRH during the beginning of the AIDS epidemic when condom testing became a Big Deal. The guys in the lab downstairs came up with the idea of simulating it with a low intensity laser, which led to a very large number of completely juvenile jokes, I can assure you.

    • http://atheistlutheran.blogspot.com/ MargueriteF

      The National Campaign, which Virginia sex education is based on (this is what my teenager is learning at school), lists an even higher failure rate for condoms:

      http://www.thenationalcampaign.org/resources/pdf/pubs/pocketprotector.pdf

      Effective Male 82% of the time

      Of course, this is a program that seems to be trying to play up abstinence as “the only 100% method for avoiding pregnancy.” Strangely, all the other methods are given really high failure rates by showing “typical use,” ie, allowing for human failure. And yet abstinence is presumed to have a “typical use” that never fails. Funny how that works.

      ETA: Wikipedia says this is what Virginia uses. I’m actually having a hard time figuring out WHAT Virginia uses for sex education, except that it has to be “abstinence based.” Google isn’t offering up too much info, but certainly pretty much everything my teenager tells me about “family life” classes sounds stupid. Whether she’s actually heard these particular outrageously wrong figures in school or not, I don’t know. I shall have to discuss the matter with her.

      • Someone from Virginia

        For Virginia, in Grade 12, students are taught about Virginia statutes and laws regarding sex. Harmless, right?

        Apparently, virginity is akin to cleanliness and purity, sexual desire is animalistic, and “intercourse” is purely a term used to refer to phallo-vaginal intercourse. This is according to the vocabulary sheet that accompanies the curriculum. Additionally, students are requested to reflect upon the goals of the legislature in creation of the various laws regarding sex in Virginia (such as those barring gay marriage, those making abortions more difficult to obtain, and all of the various antiquated sodomy laws). Afterwards, the teacher is to read the actual intended goals of those laws, including “protecting the family,” and “ensuring that people remain morally upstanding.”

        At least the existence of condoms are acknowledged by Grade 12. Students are taught about the existence of contraceptives once, in Grade 9 or 10 (I forget), and they are touched on briefly and without rigour. Students are taught that condoms exist, and informed that they are often misused. No instruction as to their use, nor their effectiveness when used properly, is given.

    • Varen Raymond

      Because you are smart enough to not double wrap, stuff condoms in your wallet for over a month, or several other really dumb things. There are actually two percentages for effectiveness on condoms. Overall effectiveness, and effectiveness when used properly. One covers people who do stupid things, and one does not.

      • Well, yeah.

        This is exactly why proper education on the topic is important.

      • FM

        Dang! You mean that condom I’ve had in my wallet for the last 5 years isn’t going to work? ;)

    • pangolin

      I had two break in one night… they were the same brand and both gotten from a free safe sex event. We threw the rest of the ones from that event away. Used Plan B – no baby – no problem.

      To be fair, my friend DID get pregnant and they were using spermicide and condoms… we now refer to him as Mr. Super Sperm. They kept the baby and are still happy as ever but now use an IUD for their pregnancy prevention needs.

    • wolfcat

      I did a debate in high school (less than a decade ago). We had to pick a subject with a partner and argue for and against it. We picked birth control and I argued against. There were no consistent statistics for the failure rate of condoms. The numbers ranged from as high as 50% and as low as 99%. The low failure rates were in the lab. Higher failure rates were during actual usage. Apparently, a lot of people don’t use them as perfectly as the test machines in a lab. lol

    • Agrajag

      Kippley, John; Sheila Kippley (1996). The Art of Natural Family Planning (4th addition ed.). Cincinnati, OH: The Couple to Couple League.

      *typical* condom-only contraception has a failure rate of 10-16%, while “perfect use” has a failure-rate of around 2%.

      But there’s lot of caveats, and the numbers aren’t nearly as poor as she makes it sound. Here’s a few of the caveats:

      The number relates to what percentage of couples who are sexually active for a year while using only condoms for contraception will get pregnant, relative to couples who use no contraception. Thus if 8 out of 10 couples using no contraception get pregnant in a year, and 1 out of 10 couples using condoms-only get pregnant in a year, this would be a 1/8 = 12.5% failure-rate.

      Secondly, most of those pregnancies result from wrong use. If you consistently used condoms correctly by every intercourse, the rate would be 2%. The most common mistakes is to not use condoms at all intercourses, or to not use it during the entire intercourse. (yes, that’s right, the percentage “failure rate for condoms” include intercourses where no condom was actually used. We’re talking about *couples* who use only condoms for contraception, such couples sometimes “forget” or “don’t have one handy” or any number of other reasons not to use on on this particular occasion)

      If she was sane, she’d recommend condom-use-education. Since that reduces the pregnancy risk from 10-16% down to theorhetically 2% with “perfect use” (and those 2% are still per sexually active year, not pro intercourse)

    • Leadwieghts

      Its a shame the condom companies can’t sue them for false allegations because if any company no matter what it was had a failure rate of 14% it wouldn’t be in business for long.

    • trickthelight

      Condoms fail in many ways other than breakage. The numbers I have seen usually say about 10-14% for one years condom use in real world use. That includes breakage, using expired condoms, using condoms carried in a wallet or stored in a hot car, slippage (you have to hold it in place when you pull out), not putting it on until later in the act, “we got drunk and I think we used one”, wearing two, continuing to have sex after ejaculation without replacing the condom, reusing condoms, and a variety of other failure modes.

      Read the warning info included in the box. It’s full of interesting stuff, including warnings about high risk of unintended pregnancy if the condom is not used properly.

  • Gus Snarp

    Also, as usual, the advice is totally different for girls than for boys. It’s the girl who will get attached after they have sex, not the boy….

    • http://abb3w.livejournal.com/ abb3w

      Quite seriously, guys deserve to be warned about that too.

      It may indeed happen more with girls than guys, as the anecdata suggest. However, even if so, the extent of the tendency varies a lot from person to person, resulting in a clear overlap of the genders’ distributions — some guys get it worse than some girls. And, inconveniently, there don’t seem to be clear warning signs in advance; the only way for a guy or girl to find out the strength of their personal pair-bond tendency is by experiment… which can be deeply traumatic for those at the high-end, of either gender.

      • Jasper

        There’s also a tendency to misinform by not informing… if one teaches that females can suffer from X, but nothing is said about males, then the implication is that males are not susceptible to X.

        I think this is also, in large part, a problem for homosexuality. (As far as I know) we don’t teach safe sex practices for homosexuality, so many may walk away thinking gay sex is safe.

        … and they find out the hard way it’s not… and those higher rates, because we aren’t educating in homosexual safe sex, become used as a reason why homosexuality is bad, and therefore we don’t want to encourage people to be gay by implying that homosexuality is okay, by teaching homosexual sex ed.

        The relationship between sex ed and homosexual STD rates becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. How are the gay kids going to know that they still need to practice safe sex without being told, any more than we expect the hetro kids to just automatically know?

  • Gus Snarp

    I wonder if these women ever encounter a student who’s already been taught the facts and stands up to them. I’d love to hear a student ask these questions. What is this new STD you’re talking about? It sounds unlikely, do you have any information from the CDC we can look at on that? You say condoms have a 14% failure rate, but every reliable agency says they’re 98% effective, what’s the source and methodology of the 14% number? Doesn’t oxytocin work the same way on boys as girls? You say life begins at conception, but don’t scientists differ on that? I’ve heard that most abortions are performed very early, I’ve seen pictures and the embryo isn’t even visible to the naked eye.

    • Kevin Sagui

      And isn’t the 98% number based on using condoms a certain amount of times over the course of a year, not for each encounter?

      • Michael W Busch

        The perfect-use failure rate for condoms is indeed ~2%/year (see the link I provided earlier). The typical-use failure rate is currently fair higher (~15%/year), but can be improved by education.

        And there are better methods of contraception, with typical-use failure rate = perfect-use failure rate and several to 40 times less than the perfect-use failure rate for condoms.

      • Gus Snarp

        I haven’t been able to find it with a simple Google search this time around, but I looked into that at one point, but it is based on use over the course of a year, and there’s a certain number of encounters in that time, because the couples in the study were asked to report frequency of use, etc.

    • Matt

      Id like to send my child to these Assemblies with a giant CITATION NEEDED sign that she could hold up any time bullshit like 14% condom failure rate or “secret new STD that I will only vaguely hint at but not give you any details to help keep you from catching it” comes up.

    • Michael W Busch

      What is this new STD you’re talking about?

      I suspect it was drug-resistant gonorrhea (ref. http://www.cdc.gov/std/gonorrhea/arg/ ), which was falsely reported in the media as “being worse than AIDS” – it isn’t. What it is is resistant to the current standard cephalosporin antibiotic treatments. This has happened before – gonorrhea used to be killed by penicillin in a few hours, but evolved resistance to that (and the same for sulfa and tetracycline). There are a few new antibiotic combinations that can be used, albeit at somewhat higher cost than cephalosporin.

  • http://www.facebook.com/stooshie.wilson Andrew Wilson

    At least most children get there sex education from multiple sources these days. I feel sorry for the ones that don’t.

  • aoscott

    What is wrong with people??

    • TCC

      Virulent ignorance and religious thinking. (The two are not mutually exclusive by any means.)

  • Miss_Beara

    I heard a lot of these gems when I was in Catholic school. You’ll be used like this rose or duct tape, therefore nobody will want you ever! Of course the girls always get the brunt of the body and sexuality shaming.

    • MariaO

      What I do not understand is this: If a woman is a cup of spit/used chewing gum/tangled duct tape/faded rose/incert dirty thing here after the first sexual act, why would even her husband want to have sex with her a second time?

      • Michael

        That is really the point. If someone marries you for your virginity then why do they stay with you?

      • TCC

        I think the idea is that the man has “sullied” the woman and thus has a responsibility to her…? I don’t know, I try not to think about it too much.

      • J-Rex

        It fits well with their stupid analogies. I don’t rechew gum I’ve chewed or use duct tape that isn’t sticky anymore.

      • PSG

        Because, in line with that thinking, it’s a duty for both husband and wife to procreate.

        Yep.

      • Corey Turner

        That is true, if using that analogy. I wouldn’t chew my OWN chewed up gum :)

    • Maggie Winnike

      I went to a Catholic school as well and my theology/sex ed teacher hated having me in class. My mom has her masters in nurse midwifery so every time he brought up a false statistic or fact I countered it with the truth. He ended up calling my mother thinking that I’d get in trouble for talking back to a teacher I guess, but my mom just laughed and told him that she couldn’t punish me for wanting students to know the truth. I was lucky that since my mom is a women’s health specialist that I grew up knowing the facts about sex, birth control, etc. I could never quite understand why shaming teens about sex and basically lying to them was a good thing and would keep them from having sex.

      • TCC

        The phrase “theology/sex ed teacher” is one that I really wish didn’t exist outside of dystopian fiction.

        • Maggie Winnike

          The fact that it’s super common in catholic and other religious schools is scary.

  • advancedatheist

    Ironically these allegedly “superstitious” christians have sound intuitions about how premarital sexual adventures spoil women for stable marriages. Refer to the social science research linked to on secular Dark Enlightenment blogs in this post on Randall Parker’s ParaPundit website:

    http://www.parapundit.com/archives/007506.html

    • Michael W Busch

      premarital sexual adventures spoil women for stable marriages.

      Cut out the sexist nonsense (“spoil women”? What. You sound like you regard over half of the people in the word like the contents of the grocery store aisle).

      And even if it were true that having any particular set of sexual habits was anti-correlated with being married for a longer period of time (a quick run through Google Scholar finds contradictory demography on this matter, and a lot of horrendously biased work), that doesn’t necessarily indicate anything about people’s happiness or why they don’t stay married. If a bunch of people are getting married and then their partners are leaving them when they realize they had sex sometime before, that is not an argument for people to not have sex outside of marriage. It’s an argument for people to not idolize virginity – and, given your particular example, for people to not have double standards.

      • Gus Snarp

        It’s also interesting to separate out the results by age. I’m fairly certain that people who marry later for the first time are far more likely to stay married, and I don’t think many people who wait until their thirties to get married are also avoiding sex all that time.

      • Ewan

        There’s also a problem with the assumption that a ‘stable’ marriage is a good thing. While a successful happy relationship may lead a married couple to stay together, the converse, that if a married couple stay together then it’s a happy and successful relationship is simply not true.

        People living in sexually oppressive conservative cultures may feel obligated to stay in unhappy, even violent, failed marriages. That’s a bad thing.

    • RobMcCune

      A blog with a bunch of links to another guy’s blog, convincing. I suppose Randall linking to other blogs counts as peer review now.

    • onamission5

      Oh noes! I’m spolit! Nobody will ever want me because I am tainted and uppity!

      Tell that to my spouse of 13 years. He will laugh you right back into the Victorian era.

      • Guest

        Which goes to show that you don’t understand statistical reasoning. Progressives became ecstatic when statistician Nate Silver predicted that they wanted to hear – President Obama’s victory over Mitt Romney last year – yet they deny the power of the same science when it tells them things which conflict with their ideology, for example, Jason Richwine’s research into the cognitive deficiencies of the Mexican immigrant population, or the Social Pathologist’s analysis of how little premarital sexual experience it takes to turn single women into high divorce risks.

        In other words, liberal atheists engage in their own form of creationist-like science denialism when it suits them.

        • RobMcCune

          Says the guy who will believe any dubious source that supports his belief in his own superiority.

          • blasphemous_kansan

            Isn’t advancedatheist the person who posts nonsense derails once in a while about freezing one’s own brain and becoming immortal? Or used to, anyway?

            Now misogyny and xenophobia, complete with supporting blog post!! Crank magnetism demonstration anyone?

            • RobMcCune

              Maybe, all I know him from is his misogyny, racism, and MRA blather. I wouldn’t put it past him to believe that his brain would be resurrected by a future society because it’s so awesome.

        • Guest

          In other words, liberal atheists engage in their own form of creationist-like science denialism when it suits them.

          That could be true, but you have not provided any examples to support that claim, and it is not relevant here. Instead, you have provided only pseudoscience based on false assumptions and bad methods.

          In order:

          1. Nate Silver is incredibly good at statistics because he knows how to handle data correctly, and he is given the attention he is given because his predictions are so often correct. That is independent of if he predicts what anyone wants to hear.

          2. There are no “cognitive deficiencies of the Mexican immigrant population” – every large population on Earth has the same distribution of innate intelligence. There are differences in education and life history, but those are more determined by failures of economics than by anything else.

          3. As I said above, the literature is full of conflicting reports about why people get married and why people stay married, most of which are based on bad research methods. “Social Pathologist’s” supposed analysis is incredibly flawed in many different ways (starting with his horrifically misogynistic language), but more importantly is based on a false assumption – that it is somehow inherently bad if people get divorced. It isn’t.

      • advancedatheist

        Which goes to show that you don’t understand statistical reasoning. Progressives became ecstatic when statistician Nate Silver predicted what they wanted to hear – President Obama’s victory over Mitt Romney last year – yet they deny the power of the same science when it tells them things which conflict with their ideology, for example, Jason Richwine’s research into the cognitive deficiencies of the Mexican immigrant population, or the Social Pathologist’s analysis of how little premarital sexual experience it takes to turn single women into high divorce risks.

        In other words, liberal atheists engage in their own form of creationist-like science denialism when it suits them.

        • Michael W Busch

          Which goes to show that you don’t understand statistical reasoning.

          No. It shows onamission5 calling you on your being a misogynistic bigot who references nonsense based on false assumptions, bad methods, and misapplications of statistics.

          In other words, liberal atheists engage in their own form of creationist-like science denialism when it suits them.

          That could be true, but you have not provided any examples to support that claim, and it is not relevant here. Instead, you have provided only nonsense.

          In order:

          1. Nate Silver is incredibly good at statistics because he knows how to handle and interpret data correctly, and he is given the attention he is given because his predictions are so often correct. That is independent of if he predicts what anyone wants to hear.

          2. There are no “cognitive deficiencies of the Mexican immigrant population” – every large population on Earth has the same distribution of innate intelligence.

          3. As I said above, the literature is full of conflicting reports about why people get married and why people stay married, most of which are based on bad research methods. The supposed analysis you linked is incredibly flawed in many different ways (starting with its horrifically misogynistic language), but more importantly is based on a false assumption – that it is somehow inherently bad if people get divorced. It isn’t.

        • Michael W Busch

          You continue to be sexist and to hold incredibly offensive double standards, and you have now added racism and xenophobia. Cut out all of those.

        • blasphemous_kansan

          “….or the Social Pathologist’s analysis of how little premarital sexual experience it takes to turn single women into high divorce risks.”

          Why is it automatically the woman that is assumed to be the highest divorce risk? Why is divorce automatically a bad thing?

    • Darci

      Yeah, I’m going to trust the *obviously unbiased scientific conclusions* of someone who tosses around the word “sl*t” like he’s throwing a frisbee for a golden retriever.

      Newsflash:secular does not necessarily mean non-sexist.

  • Eric Keyte

    I don’t want children, but if I did, I sure as hell wouldn’t raise them in Tennessee.

  • baal

    I hate our errosion of privacy but having recording devices in the pocket of most people changes the dynamic of complaints about cops or ‘experts’ who could have used their position as a shield to legit complaints.

  • averydashwood

    Elizabeth Smart gave a speech a few weeks ago pointing out how damaging this kind of brainwashing is to victims of rape. Your are the cup that has been spat in. You are the gum that has been chewed. Who would want you now? You are worthless. Why even try to escape?

    • 7Footpiper

      Of course this kind of abuse is followed closely by the invitation to “accept jesus christ as your personal saviour”.

      • Hat Stealer

        That’s actually a well known tactic of a few terrorist sects in the Middle East. Rape a woman, then use the resulting emotional trauma to convert her to Islam, so she’s ready to go out and blow other people (and herself) up. Of course, rape is illegal in this country, so Christians are forced to find other ways to do the same thing.

    • jetpackdino

      I heard about that speech. I hope it’s online somewhere, I need to check it out. Kudos to Ms.Smart.

  • griffox

    Should be called “false claims, assertions, and anti-choice.” As a female, I can attest that sex does not equal emotional attachment. The problem with the lies are that, yes, teens are smart and when they figure out that one thing adults told them was a lie, they will want to test everything else they’ve been warned about. Then it doesn’t matter how you try to warn them, they will want to find out for themselves. That is a lot of what being young is: trying things out for yourself. So, the best thing we can do is give them tools to better navigate that new territory, not lies.

    • http://parkandbark.wordpress.com/ Houndentenor

      If someone is naive enough to think “I want to have sex with you” means “I love you”, then no, they are not ready for sex yet. Parents need to talk to their children about sex, romance and love. Not just the biological part but how it feels to be infatuated, fall in love and be in a sexual relationship. Those are important conversations and for the most part Evangelical parents are not having those honest conversations. Lecturing teenagers doesn’t work. It never has. (Did it work for you?) In fact a certain percentage are going to go straight out and do whatever is banned. (If it’s taboo, it must be fun!) Honest dialogue is important, which means listening to kids at least as much as you talk to them.

      • griffox

        I’m confused. Are you just agreeing with me by adding to what I said or did I make it seem like I don’t support honest dialogue?

        • http://parkandbark.wordpress.com/ Houndentenor

          Agreeing and participating in the discussion. I apologize if that was not clear.

          • griffox

            Oh, okay. I couldn’t tell if your question (did it work for you?) was directed at me or all the collective readers. Sorry that I misinterpreted. I agree with everything you said.

            • Corey Turner

              Does anyone else think that she makes girls sound pathetic, saying that oxytocin from sex is going to make you emotionally attached and the boy will not be? You know what makes you emotionally attached? Being an emotionally immature teenager. Being a young girl or boy that is experiencing “like” for the first time (not “love”). I knew plenty of girls and guys that seemed totally obsessed with each other and that didn’t include sex.

            • http://parkandbark.wordpress.com/ Houndentenor

              No worries. I get a little worked up sometimes and also have a tendency to use the general “you” when I mean “one” or “people in general” which can cause confusion. Happens quite often. I should probably not get so worked up but this issue really bugs me. by and large the people who object to sex ed in schools are the ones NOT talking to their kids about sex (and also their values and experiences). So those kids are not getting information and then who winds up getting knocked up while they are still in high school. GRRRRR. Anyway, glad we cleared that up. Hugs?

      • PSG

        Let me further this with some personal experience, since I started my experimenting so very young. The whole “I love you” that might encourage immature activity is compounded by the equally immature “He’ll love me IF I…” (Which wasn’t correct, but was part of the ever-hopeful mental process. For me, it was if I did something for “him”. For someone else the emotional reward may be for NOT doing something, instead remaining virtuous. Both are false aspirations.)
        I was raised to think that good girls didn’t, bad girls did…and so it was easy enough for me to assume I was a bad girl (which did not dissuade me at all) and on my own in these adventures.
        We gained our early expertise by stealing away someone’s Joy Of Sex (it was the 80′s) but that didn’t address the emotional learning curve, or responsibility for ourselves.
        Though we (parents) should try, I’m sure how much of -that- a parent can actually impart to a child through guidance – these are the same hurts and lessons learned that I experienced as a young teen, that I later saw adults in their twenties hash through. The pains of growing in to the person we become. What I have practiced so far as a parent, and will continue to do, is offer honesty instead of (only) opinion. That doesn’t mean I won’t give one, but that I don’t want to let that get in the way of the necessary education.

        These sex education seminars are frightening, in that I would expect the like in a church, but not an institution of learning. How is it a Public school (assuming this was a Public school) can teach such ignorance and disinformation – and still be accredited?

        • KC

          I like your point that these lessons can’t’ be passed down from parents, but have to be learned by the teen/young adult. My 19 year old daughter learned a lot of those lessons about over attachment/pain/trust/emotional connections through some experiences she had at 16 she grew to regret. Many of her conservative friends judged/alienated her…but now they are going through the same experiences in college. Now that she has already learned from those mistake and toned herself down, she is the supportive friend they never were to her. I have two boys too- and you can see them just trying to navigate their way to emotional health and connections while maintaining healthy relationships with serious girlfriends. There is no one right way to parent or teach these kids these issues- they learn it from experience, young love, and loss. You’re right- we need honesty and openness so they will talk and ask questions. Offering opinions to teenagers doesn’t always go the way you want anyway.

  • Baby_Raptor

    Christians lying? Seriously, I can’t be more shocked…

    • Bob Sheep

      I don’t think they intend to lie. I think most are just repeating the indoctrination they received and haven’t figured out it’s false yet.

  • SirReal

    This galls me. The stupidity burns, honestly it does.

    • Matt

      uh oh, might be that new drug-resistant Gonorrhea the woman was talking about.

  • Art_Vandelay

    The only true thing I heard in that whole talk was “I’m not a biology major.”

    No…really?

  • Cincinatheist

    Everyone loves talking bears who are virgins, right?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=IoIeXgCfwNI#!

  • Matt

    absolutely disgusting.

  • C Peterson

    Tennessee. That would be the state with the 13th worst teenage pregnancy rate. And no wonder.

    • RobMcCune

      The point is to teach children the christian view that sex is filthy, if they produce a class of a few virgins for Jesus they’ve done their job regardless of the number of pregnancies or STIs.

      • clonersw

        Thats a solid misconstrued stereotype you have going there…thats pretty close to the exact opposite view of sex the majority of Christians I know hold. Believing that sex is something special to be shared with a spouse and thinking its “filthy” are completely different things. But with comments like that I’m pretty sure you’re not interested in facts…just perpetuating misunderstanding. Funny how thats what Christians are so often blamed for doing….

        • http://gamesgirlsgods.blogspot.com/ Feminerd

          Sex will ruin your purity and make you spoilt and icky forever and ever. It’s like having a lot of people spit in a cup- ewww! Who wants a vagina that a lot of people have ejaculated into?

          With a spouse, sex is totally awesome and pure and God likes it. Spousal ejaculation is not icky.

          Does that cover Christian sexual teachings fairly well?

          • clonersw

            I guess if you want to look at it in the most negative way possible. The way I see it is sex is something intimate and special. Nothing icky about it, I’m completely against the way this “abstinence only” thing is presented in the majority of cases. It neglects the facts about contraception and safe sexual behavior, but I DO think there is validity to encouraging young people to strongly consider waiting before becoming sexual active, not even because of my spiritual beliefs but because if they were anything like me in High School they likely lack the emotional maturity and long term potential consequences at that age.

            • phantomreader42

              “intimate and special” may be the way you SEE it, clonrsw, but it is NOT the way christianist frauds like these TEACH it.

              • clonersw

                You are accurate, these people are frauds. They are using the huge umbrella of Christianity to push an agenda and trying to force their personal beliefs on kids that are not able to object. The part that I want to stress though is while there are plenty of people like this it does not encompass all of Christianity and there are plenty of us that are sickened by this kind of behavior. It is confusing for the kids and undermines their ability to make wise choices down the line.

                • Phred_P

                  If only every Christian who was revolted by the behavior of extremists like these two women would stand up and object, perhaps non-Christians wouldn’t have reason to be so disdainful of Christianity in general.

            • http://gamesgirlsgods.blogspot.com/ Feminerd

              Fair enough. I made assumptions about you and your views based on your first post that turned out to be erroneous, and I am sorry for that. You clearly have a much healthier and more positive view of sex than many Christians (especially the really vocal ones!) and I applaud you for that.

              • clonersw

                Thank you, i appreciate that. It is sad how it does always tend to be the crazy ones that are so vocal and getting all the attention. I’m glad we found common ground.

            • Glasofruix

              I DO think there is validity to encouraging young people to strongly
              consider waiting before becoming sexual active, not even because of my
              spiritual beliefs but because if they were anything like me in High
              School they likely lack the emotional maturity and long term potential
              consequences at that age.

              That’s beacause you were being taught that sex is super duper special and icky if you’re not married since you were young.

              • clonersw

                Thats actually not the case, I became a Christian late into my teenage years and most of my thoughts on this topic come from self reflection, my own study of the Bible, and the super helpful talk from my dad when I was in High School to “keep my pecker in my pants” lol. Thats not to say some aren’t taught it from a young age, just wasn’t my personal experience.

          • Chelsea L

            lol, you guys are sad and doing the thing you claim to hate. Generalizing and misrepresenting facts to push personal views.

            • http://gamesgirlsgods.blogspot.com/ Feminerd

              Chelsea, I made some erroneous assumptions about clonersw. I shouldn’t have done that. There’s an awful lot of people who say things similar to what clonersw said who would support these women and their vicious message. I apologized for my mistake, and I’ll try not to let the general eye-rollingness of a lot of Christian commenters here inform each individual one.

              So tell me again how recognizing my human tendency to pigeonhole people, making a mistake and then taking steps to rectify it, is “generalizing and misrepresenting facts to push personal views”.

        • RobMcCune

          Because comparing sex to spit in cup is these speaker’s way of telling students sex is extra special. Thank you for clearing that up, it wasn’t about shaming, the speakers were just really kinky.

          Thats a solid misconstrued stereotype you have going there…thats pretty close to the exact opposite view of sex the majority of Christians I know hold.

          You’re right, if what I said was true for all Christians, then they wouldn’t be having most of the premarital and extramarital sex in this country

          • clonersw

            Lol, yeah exactly you don’t care whats actually going on just using this to validate your disdain for Christians/religion or whatever it is that has you so jaded. Carry on, sorry you have so much bitterness :-/

            • RobMcCune

              Well I’m using my disdain for the actions of Wasill and Cox to validate my disdain for Wasill and Cox. You either agree with them, in which case why are you trying to deny what they’re doing? Or you don’t, then why are you trying to stick up for them?

              They’re the ones going around to schools presenting their shtick as the Christian view of sex, and the school faculty feel that high school students should be taught that view. Do you point out to these people that they’re making your religion look bad, or do you just stand up to people who bother to point that out?

              • clonersw

                I’m absolutely not sticking up for them, what they are doing is wrong. My first response to you was specifically because you were doing pretty much exactly what these people were. Misrepresenting facts to push personal views. Believe me I’m as disgusted, if not more so by their actions. I can’t stand the idea that people are using my religion as a means to confuse and undermine kids.

        • Alexandrea Kiyome

          THANK YOU. Dude you’re awesome for this.

    • Stev84

      Southern states have to be number one in something

  • http://www.facebook.com/brandie.winchester Brandie Lynn Winchester

    Fortunately, I believe the Hillsboro High School kids are smart enough to separate fact from fiction and that some of the opinions and scare tactics used in the presentation they will know are incorrect,” So basically they assume all information shared is fiction because if these adults are lying to me why should I believe anything that comes out of there mouths…..

  • http://www.facebook.com/brandie.winchester Brandie Lynn Winchester

    I my self had the best sex education as a freshman in college, my human growth and development teacher focused on sex ed longer than the text required because she said that unfortunately too many schools give mis-information and she wanted to make sure that the students who left her class were prepared. It was mind bowling what I didnt know and at that point Id been having sex for 3 years

  • Matt

    Lol calling RU-486 “the abortion pill” No scare tactics there.

    • Stev84

      Well, it is used as an abortion pill. The issue here is that they usually try to confuse it with emergency contraceptives that just prevent ovulation. It’s also not something you can just buy in the pharmacy and use by yourself.

      • Michael W Busch

        it is used as an abortion pill

        To clarify: that’s only true in a strictly chemical sense. The dosage for mifepristone as a chemical abortifacient is ~600 milligrams, followed by a dose of misoprostol. When mifepristone is used as an emergency contraceptive, the dosage is several times less. (Ref. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mifepristone and its sources).

        And, as you say, there is far too often a deliberate false conflation of mifepristone with the progestin-only emergency contraceptives that simply prevent ovulation (and also with ulipristal acetate, which acts somewhat differently but is also not an abortifacient in the dosages use for contraceptive purposes).

    • Leigha7

      Oh, please. You call that scare tactics? I remember reading a Focus on the Family publication (if I recall correctly) when I was in high school that said you could tell RU-486 was bad because it’s right in the name: “RU, are you…4, for…86, like death (you know, like to 86 something?)…are you for death.”

      I still can’t help but think of that every time I see it.

  • busterggi

    i hope they also told the students that they wouldn’t enjoy sex also. Good Christians aren’t supposed to anyways.

  • JCC

    “One school board member just figured the students would know fact from fiction”

    Yes maybe on1 out of 100 can do that because, like me, they were given the FACTS from an early age by their mum/dad/cousin/aunt/teacher or whoever. but I guarantee the majority won’t be able to separate fact and fiction, especially if they are force fed religious fiction to start with. I thank my mum for giving me all the facts at an early age so I went off to school and university with so much relationship and sex knowledge that I was protected from my, and others, stupidity.

    What a travesty for students who don’t have the knowledge and therefore the tools to deal with what is a quite natural act. Sex is going to happen, so be ready for it.

    • Corey Turner

      I guess the School Board member could have a point, if school were a giant game of “3 Truths and a Lie.” Or, in this case, “4 Lies.”

  • TrainAss

    I remember back in highschool (mid 90′s) being told the emotional bit as well. We even watched a video on it that tried to explain it all to us in a way that “We kids could relate to”. And the one thing that I remember, is after the teenage couple engage in coitus, the female was always really distant and emotional, whereas the guy was acting as if nothing happened.

  • Jessica

    If those statistics were right 70% of the girls I went to high school with, myself included, should have gotten knocked up before graduation. Surprise, we didn’t. Well, except for one holy roller girl who was too ashamed to buy contraception.

  • smithxone

    So, instead you are suggesting that keeping these truths from women is helpful? How???

    • Artor

      Which truths are you referring to?

    • RobertoTheChi

      What “truths” are you speaking of?

    • RobMcCune

      Seeing as there are close to zero truths* in the presentation, women(and men) aren’t missing much.

      *The presentation could contain in total several truths, but only through a summation of half-truths.

    • Phred_P

      Misinformation is worse than no information. These kids would have been
      far better off with NO sex education than this travesty of a class.

  • The Watcher

    There are 3.5 million sports-related injuries every year, including:

    200,000 from basketball
    117,000 from baseball and softball (with three to four of those children dying every year)
    273,000 from bicycling
    194,000 from football
    23,500 from gymnastics

    I’m still waiting to hear the fundies propose abstinence-only sports education. After all, the only 100% surefire way you never get hurt playing sports is to never play them.

    • smrnda

      This is a great point. They seem to think that with sex, nothing that isn’t 100% safe is good enough, but we’re accepting way less than 100% in other areas. Some things you kind of have to do – someone has to put out fires regardless of the risks , but nobody *has* to play sports.

  • Spuddie

    “Having students spit into a cup and then telling the class that drinking that cup is the equivalent of having sex with eight partners.”

    All at once or one at a time? Inquiring minds want to know!

    I am sure Joi Wasill and Beth Cox can speak from experience on this.

  • phendraana

    Oh FFS… I’ve been sexually active for 16 years & I’ve had exactly ONE condom break in that entire time. And that spit cup argument is one of the stupidest things ive ever heard. I wonder if that same concept counts for used cars, houses, and rescue pets? They’re not pure, so they must be ‘chewed gum’ too!

    This kind of fraudulent, dishonest “education” should be illegal & these hags should be jailed for corrupting & deceiving minors.

  • http://parkandbark.wordpress.com/ Houndentenor

    When I was in college my roommate went to a Bible study thing and the leader decided to talk about masturbation. (It was just guys there.) He told some story about a guy caught in his college dorm jerking off in the shower. Then confronted the guy said, “it’s mine and I can wash it as fast as I want to.” I guess this wasn’t supposed to have been funny, but my roommate laughed so hard that he was asked to leave the meeting. He never went back. When he told me we laughed and laughed. That’s the kind of sex-negative information teenagers are getting from the religious right. In stead of discussing healthy and appropriate ways of expressing their sexuality, they are getting guilt and shame for perfectly normal feelings and activities.

    • J-Rex

      How was that not supposed to be funny??

      • http://parkandbark.wordpress.com/ Houndentenor

        I think everyone was supposed to be appalled at such horrible behavior. As the story was told to me, no one else laughed. Masturbation must be the most bizarre part of the male experience. Pretty much everyone does it, and pretty much everyone likes to pretend they don’t. If you can make people feel bad about something so common and natural, you can press that guilt/shame button as often as you wish. This is what fundamentalist churches do. it’s all about guilt and shame. Guilt is good if you’ve actually done something wrong, but if you can get people to feel that self-loathing all the time you have them groveling for forgiveness for things they will go right back out and do again and the pattern repeats. it’s sick, it’s twisted and it’s most of what religion is, unfortunately.

  • Mary

    I was told all of these things and worse in middle school and high school sex ed. We did the spit in a cup one several times. One teacher told us that bisexuality didn’t exist and all women who claimed to be bisexual were just sluts looking for attention from guys… This was right around the age I first got a crush on a girl, so, thanks a lot for that dude. The words vulva, labia, or clitoris were never mentioned in 4 years of sex ed. The only time female genitalia was ever shown was in pictures of STIs (we spent an entire lesson just looking at these pictures). Contraceptives were never explained to us, except to say that they were ineffective. The only time we were shown a condom was not to demonstrate how to correctly use one, but to tear one in front of us to show how ineffective they are. God was explicitly spoken about as a reason to not have sex because he would be disappointed in you (and this was a public school). We were given “abstinence pledges” that we were encouraged to sign right there in the classroom with everyone watching… no pressure, or anything. I’m still pissed off that I was told all of these things when I was 11-14 years old and impressionable. I learned nothing in those classes except to be ashamed of my sexuality–which is what they were going for, I guess. I wish they had tried this shit when I was a few years older and would have had the confidence to rip up that abstinence pledge and tell them to go fuck themselves.

  • Mika

    She might not be making up that super STD, but only not remember the name. She could be talking about H041 stain of gonorrhea which has been compared to AIDS and is antibiotic-resistant. It seems have a small ripple of media buzz earlier this month.

    Other than that, these ladies don’t need to be teaching sex ed in school.

    • Michael W Busch

      Cephalosporin-resistant gonorrhea was falsely compared to AIDS. They should have actually checked that before repeating the false comparison.

  • shockwaver

    The second woman only said one truthful thing (49:30 of the full recording):

    “One of the most dangerous place a pregnant teenager can be is in high school – because they get wrong information”

    How true that is – but the source of that information might surprise them.

    On a side note, hearing an hour of these accents makes me flash back to living in the south and the ignorant shit I dealt with every day growing up.

  • marko

    What morons like this lady won’t admit to these kids is the fact that in biblical times, 13-14 year olds were getting married, having sex and bearing children. Yet someway today you must be 4-5 years older then the average age of puberty to be married. This leaves a large gap in ones life where there is a natural and healthy drive for sexual intercourse that is only repressed by the shame, fear, and brainwashing of these religious hypocritical advocates that convince people they basically aren’t ready for sex. Even though nature is telling our bodies otherwise. Puberty wouldnt happen at that age if the body wasn’t ready for it. Nature AND the ‘Will of God’ vs religious agenda. Look in your bibles and do a little historical research and youl find that yes marriage/sex did happen at a much younger age during biblical times. It was sex out of wedlock/polygamy that the bible spoke against..not sex itself. Since we cant get married til we are 17-18, we spend years not being able to have the sex our bodies are ready for. In fact the bible speaks of the harm this can cause Genesis 2:18 ~Then the LORD God said, “It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper fit for him.~

    • The Other Weirdo

      In fact the bible speaks of the harm this can cause Genesis 2:18 ~Then
      the LORD God said, “It is not good that the man should be alone; I will
      make him a helper fit for him.~

      Thus launching the Quiverfull movement, and incidentally admitting that He had made a mistake.

  • J-Rex

    “There is no such thing as risk-free sex.”
    Maybe not, but there are ways to get it into the 99.99% risk-free range. Why don’t you tell them how, or else you better start explaining why they should never drive cars either.

    • The Other Weirdo

      Because then they’d be having sex, and that’s yucky. Even worse, they’d be having sex without fear and that’s downright ungodly. Worse still, they’d be having sex and enjoying the freedom from worry, and these women can’t, and we can’t have that.

    • Isilzha

      There’s no such thing as risk-free driving either!

      • RLins

        Yes, that would be the joke.

  • jerry

    that’s a step up in a way. I grew up in Tennessee and never once was there even an attempt at sex ed. it’s unfortunate that the education is full of lies and attempts to scare already naturally rebellious teens, face it we were all young once. now maybe we can teach these kids Facts

  • DoubleN

    I actually took the health and wellness class at hillsboro back in 2009 during the summer so I wouldn’t have to take it during the school year at HFA. For the sex ed talk they had someone from the health department come in. While abstinence was the most emphasized point (it’s written into the TN curriculum) he still emphasized the way that STI’s are spread, and the importance of using condoms, and that all it takes is “one time”. It’s sad that they stopped doing that, because having someone from the health department, in my personal opinion, is the way this class should be taught.

  • skylynn

    My health teacher told us all those things on that list except the last one

  • John Rutherford

    This is insane and a complete lie. This woman should be banned from entering every school in the USA.

  • Connor Dutchak

    I’d just like to point out that it is also legal to marry your first cousin in Tennessee.

  • Michael David Barber Moghul

    http://www.humanreligions.info/intelligence.html#Conclusion

    The historical battles between religious institutions and science, such as those in physics, astronomy and biology, indicate there is something wrong with the religious approach to the study of reality. The underlying problem extends to negative effects on the individual intelligence of believers, and a related negative effect on educational achievements. Hardly any of the several-hundred Nobel Prize winning scientists have beenChristians. Only 3.3% of the Members of the Royal Society in the UK and 7% the National Academy of Sciences in the USA, believe in a personal God. The more senior and learnéd the scientist, the less likely they are to believe in God. The children of highly religious parents suffer diminished IQs – averaging 7 to 10 points lower compared to their non-religious counterparts in similar socio-economic groups. As you would expect from these results, multiple studies have also shown that IQ is opposed to the strength of religious belief. 39 studies since 1927 (out of 43) have found that the more educated a person is, and the higher one’s intelligence, the less likely someone is to hold religious beliefs. Countries with a higher rate of belief in God have lower average intelligence; all countries with high average intelligence have low national levels of belief in God. For countries where belief in God is over 80%, the average national IQ is 83 points. For those countries where stated disbelief in God is greater than 20%, the national average IQ is 98 points. Instead of belief in God, countries with the highest IQs adhere to Far-Eastern belief systems such as Buddhism, Taoism and Shintoism.

    • Michael W Busch

      There are assuredly many problems with religion – it is wrong, after all. But you are making the mistake of equating IQ with intelligence. They are not the same thing. IQ measures how well people perform the set of skills measured by IQ tests, which are predominately learned skills. Variations in IQ from one national-scale cohort to another reflect differences in education and environment, and have nothing to do with innate intelligence.

      Nor do “countries with a higher rate of belief in God have lower average intelligence”, or “countries with high average intelligence have low national levels of belief in God”. There is no difference in the distribution of innate intelligence between countries – everyone has the same ancestors. All of the effects that you are describing are due to differences in education, environment, and culture. That includes the scientists you mentioned, who are all well-educated.

      And none of this is relevant to this story, except to say that accurate and comprehensive education is important.

  • Sisir

    I would have ended up smacking both of them to snap them out of full retard.

    • Michael W Busch

      Cut out the ableist slurs.

      And these two people are offensively and incredibly harmfully wrong. That does not justify violence.

      • Phred_P

        Perhaps, perhaps not, but when someone becomes totally divorced from reality, a slap in the face may prove helpful.

        • Michael W Busch

          They aren’t “totally divorced from reality” – they just have very wrong ideas about how the reality they experience operates. And that doesn’t merit violence.

          • Phred_P

            “Violence”?? Get real. Nobody is advocating shooting them or chopping off their hands. A light therapeutic “slap in the face” isn’t likely to cause serious harm to anyone. If someone is raving like a madman, whether verbally or on paper, such a slap would get their attention without leaving any lasting effects.

            • Michael W Busch

              Slapping someone in the face only because they are “raving like a madman” is never an appropriate response – it is in fact, unnecessary violence, and could be considered as assault depending on the details of the situation.

  • OMGmyRubberBusted

    When condoms fail it’s because users were stupid. If you ejaculate into a condom then play it off like you didn’t and just keep on stroking, you’re a moron. The semen is going to squeegee down your love muscle and out of the condom and become an active batch of baby badder. Then there’s the geniuses who think they can take a few good sloppy raw dog strokes before putting on a condom, so when they finally roll it down it’s over a gallon of vagislobber that will almost guarantee that it slides right off within the next 20 strokes or so. People are mostly stupid to begin with, and when they are horny they typically lose about another 20 IQ points which puts them roughly on par with the intelligence of most common house plants. Hurrrr derrrrrp!

    • http://www.awaypoint.wordpress.com Valerie Tarico

      One in nine couples relying on condoms gets pregnant in a year (compared to 8/10 with no contraception). That’s still pretty sucky odds compared to say a hormonal IUD where the odds of an unintended pregnancy are about 1/800. Condom failure doesn’t meany your a moron. It means your normal. If 1/9 drivers crashe their car every year we woul say i was a human factors engineering problem.

  • Miska123

    Sane, informative commenting on the whole BC/Condom usage thing. Better than the talk the students had by a long shot.
    Kudos.

  • wolfcat

    You exchange bodily fluids during sex. How’s it any different than the spit in the cup demo? You kiss during sex, right? Everyone else they’ve ever kissed has left germs and crud in that person’s mouth and likely around their genitals. So, yes, it’s very accurate. Life does begin at conception. No scientist in the world is arguing that. The actual argument is whether or not that life is to have rights. Why shouldn’t they discourage abortions? They are a nasty bit. Too many people are using them in place of contraception. Before anyone argues, try actually reading studies based on responses from women having abortion performed. According to the Guttmacher Institute, 50% of women having abortions did not use any contraception at the time of conception. another 25% admit to not using birth control consistently or not using it properly. Don’t even bother using the “What about people with health problems and rape victims?” argument. That’s not an issue to the vast majority of people. They only make up a quarter of abortion seekers. That leaves that 75% who stated that they didn’t want a child to change their lives. Don’t get knocked up with a kid you don’t want people. lol.

    • pRinzler

      Life actually begins *before* conception. As the great George Carlin said, “People say life begins at conception, I say life began about a billion years ago and it’s a continuous process.”

      • wolfcat

        lol

      • Phred_P

        Life is a sexually transmitted disease.

    • Darci

      I don’t know about you, but I’ve brushed my teeth thousands of times since my first kiss. I also don’t know how kissing someone would put their germs on my genitals, but no worries, I’ve also showered daily since the first time I had sex (also before that, of course). So much for the accuracy of the spit-cup demonstration. And I even was able to emotionally bond with my husband of over a decade despite my (and his) previous sexual experiences. It’s almost like everything these women say is unscientific nonsense!

      • wolfcat

        O.o Tell me you are not dense. No one can be that ignorant! Have you ever smelled people’s morning breath? Note how it always smells very similar to the day before and the day before that, etc? That’s because you cannot and obviously do not ever kill off every single germ in your mouth. Also, note how fast they reproduce. In just a matter of hours, your mouth can go from squeaky to grodie. Do you honestly think a vagina (a much more bacteria and virus friendly environment which never gets brushed or gargled with mouthwash) is doing better than your mouth? Even an anus is a happy medium for your local bacteria population and all migrating visitors from cloud penis. How often do you take a bottle brush, some bleach, and a shower nozzle to your vagina then heat to a sanitizing degree? Never? Didn’t think so. You’re also obviously illiterate. I said you kiss when you have sex so both areas exchange fluids. Not to mention oral sex. Talk about mixing and matching nasty critters who are along for the ride. You obviously missed how 1 in 4 people has an STD at any given time. I’m betting they are as clueless as you.

        I never said anything about marriage?

        But, I certainly have proven that this is scientific fact. Ask any microbiologist.

        • Darci

          OK, you must be trolling. No one could honestly believe this. You actually think I have germs in my mouth from a boy I kissed 25 years ago?

          And no, I don’t squeegee my vagina with bleach(!) because I am a woman who understands how my body functions, dumbass.

          You’ve only proven that you don’t understand biology.

          • wolfcat

            #1. You’re not a microbiologist.

            #2. Can you prove otherwise with any study?

            #3. Yes, you do. Also, in your vagina from anything that’s been down there.

            Where do you think bacteria in your intestine’s comes from? From the very first thing to enter your mouth to the last. The only thing that disrupts it is the introduction of new living organisms, or antibiotics. No dark wet orifice of your body is any different besides your stomach full of corrosive acid.

            You are clueless and uneducated. That has nothing to do with your sex. I, on the other hand, have never done anything less than ace biology as well as biochem.

            It might have helped that I’m actually literate, am a whiz at reading comprehension, and was on a college reading level by 2nd grade. My librarians always gave me first option at free books and would not give me credit in the summer reading program for children’s books because I was such a fast reader. Even during the school year they playfully poked me if they caught me in that area.

            Anyways, until you come back with an expert microbiologist who can prove I’m wrong and you are right, go brew some more tiny organisms that you think you aren’t crawling with.

            • Darci

              trollylolylol

              • wolfcat

                Interesting, I bet that’s exactly what obtuse christians think when someone confronts them with reality… *jots this moment into her psychology notebook*

                • RobMcCune

                  I think your therapist asked you to keep that notebook due to your obsessive fear of germs.

                • wolfcat

                  Why would you think I’m afraid of “germs” and/or microorganisms simply because I am aware that they exist and live on and inside of all humans? Nah, the only afraid one is the one denying reality. Yah know, the one who thinks taking a daily shower and brushing her teeth often means that there are no germs on or in her at all. Try to read a little better. They have classes to help people like you.

            • http://gamesgirlsgods.blogspot.com/ Feminerd

              Actually, our microbiomes are surprisingly resistant to a lot of change. They colonize our insides pretty thoroughly- there’s just often not enough space for new microbes to insert themselves and start up a colony. That’s why our intestines keep pretty similar microbiomes for our whole lives unless we do something like radically change our diet or have antibiotics, and one big reason why healthy microbiomes keep people healthy. We haven’t found significant, uh, cross-contamination in people who perform anal sex. Vaginas are full of microbes, sure, but they’re our personal microbes and not super likely to be our ex-boyfriends’ (or girlfriends’) microbes. And even if they are, so what? Humans are walking, talking, breathing biological warfare machines. We’re all crawling with trillions of microbes. Sharing those microbes is inevitable and not icky.

        • Michael W Busch

          You don’t magically acquire all of the microbes someone has in their body just by exchanging bodily fluids with them once. There have to be enough active cells/virions in the fluid concerned, they have to survive the physical conditions they find themselves in (anaerobes hate oxygen-rich environments; S. sanguinis doesn’t persist in people without teeth), and then they have to out-compete your immune system and the pre-existing microbial population. You don’t pick up all the bugs all at once.

          And you do understand that the germs on your body right now aren’t the same as the germs that were there last week, right? The specific strains present and their relative populations are always changing, even if there is some approximation of homeostatis. Microbiota don’t cause a problem unless there is a large-scale and uncontrolled population of a dangerous strain – i.e., an infection or a disease. The background population of commensal and symbiotic microbes is rarely a concern unless a population is introduced somewhere it should not be (e.g. e. coli is harmless or benefical in your gut, but not a good thing to have in your urinary tract).

          Nor is someone’s vagina a “much more bacteria and virus friendly environment” than their mouth – the local components of the immune system, normal microflora, and lactic acid production have a strong protective effect against growth of harmful bacteria. Ref. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vagina#Vaginal_ecosystem and its sources.

          You obviously missed how 1 in 4 people has an STD at any given time

          You appear to be referencing the CDC study referred to here: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/12/science/12std.html?_r=2& or similar earlier reports, without understanding what they mean and how they are rapidly becoming outdated. Yes, in the past, ~25% of American teenagers had some STI – although that varied by a factor of two with cohort.

          But the vast majority of those infections weren’t due to bad hygiene. They were due to very many people being largely-asymptomatic carriers of human papillomavirus – in 2008 or earlier, sampling Americans in their early 20s would have found an HPV rate of ~45% (rates would have been lower for older cohorts as the sampled population acquired immunity, but you can see that almost half of the US population had had HPV at some point). Fortunately, >90% of HPV cases will never cause symptoms and the viral population drops to zero within less than 2 years. The 5%-10% of cases that do progress are of concern due to the risk of cervical cancer. Since 2009, HPV rates in American teens have begun falling steeply, thanks to the vaccination program (although not as far or as fast as they should be), and rates for older cohorts drop with a time lag.

          Infections other than HPV only affect 1 in 10 teenagers. For these, the indicated procedure is education: so that people understand how to recognize symptoms and seek treatment; the importance of screening tests for non-obvious infections; and the importance of and how to use barrier methods.

          I certainly have proven that this is scientific fact.

          I’m not quite sure what you think you have proven, but you appear to need to learn a bit more biology.

          • wolfcat

            No, I did not read that one at all. The Guttmacher Institute ran the study I’m discussing in 1994. Yours is from 2008. I’m sure I misinterpreted this as well?
            “More than half of all people will have an STD/STI at some point in their lifetime.”
            http://www.ashasexualhealth.org/std-sti/std-statistics.html
            Along with the rest of the info cited in that article…

            At the worst, I might have phrased my wording slightly better.

            O.o When did I say that microbiota cause a problem? When did I bring up hygeine other than to answer Darc’s obsession with it and her horridly wrong assumption that she can scrub all of the microbes away?

            You did prove my point with that though, silly Darci could have been running around with asymptomatic HPV (as well as plenty of other STD’s and virus friends) all of this time. Silly girl. You cannot scrub this stuff away.

            Note that I said,
            “a much more bacteria and virus friendly environment”
            not,
            “a much more bacteria and virus laden environment”
            Learn to differentiate. If you stuck as many things into a vagina as you do into your mouth for your whole life, prove to me that it would not be a much nastier place. Especially when something as simple as a douche can throw it completely out of whack.

            Consider this, morning breath does not change much for years in some people, neither does armpit smell, but it does change. The fact that those open areas, which are washed regularly, maintain a fairly consitent smell indicate they they do hold on to the same bacteria for long periods of time regardless of how often you wash. We are living petri dishes. The average adult human runs around with more microbes (1,500 trillion) in their body than body cells (100 trillion)! (Got that fun tidbit form a study a science page I subscribe to posted). At best you are little more than 10% you.
            http://www.foxnews.com/science/2012/12/23/100-trillion-creatures-are-living-on-right-now-and-thats-okay/
            Even naturally born babies pick up their first microbes from….. Mom’s VAGINA! Yay! *wonder where that thing’s been…*

            • Glasofruix

              You really are an idiot, aren’t you?

              • wolfcat

                Obviously, I’m well read and the only one posting a wide variety of facts from valid sources to support her stance, no.

                • Glasofruix

                  Well, it’s been shown numerous times that your sources are phony and your arguments ridiculous and unscientific, so yeah, idiot.

                • wolfcat

                  Actually, no such thing has been shown. You obviously have done no research yourself and are commenting on a subject that you are completely ignorant of. Pitiful. Did you not get enough attention today? Come back when you actually know facts.

        • RobMcCune

          Tell me you are not dense. No one can be that ignorant!

          I’ve read your comments, I think your the only one.

          • wolfcat

            I’ve read your comment and you’re* definitely one.

            Amazing how many people can vote down a comment full of facts from actual studies without reading them. Disliking facts does not change facts.

    • Michael W Busch

      There is exactly one way to reduce the rate of abortion: make effective contraceptives readily available to everyone and make sure they know how to use them. Notice what the people here are not doing?

      • wolfcat

        I have to wonder why no one advocates pushing vasectomies and tubal ligation. Those were never once brought up in any sex ed class I’ve taken in multiple states. Not only that, you hardly ever hear about them period except from people who’ve had one. Not easy to do because most doctors can and do refuse to give you one until you are 27 years of age or have enough children to add to your age and equal 27! I advocate free and easy permanent sterilization for anyone who wants it. I know quite a few interested people who have not been able to get one because of the B.S. I also hate how none of the “pro birth control” people seem to ever care or do anything to help the most effective form of birth control (besides the rarely used abstinence. lol)

        • Michael W Busch

          Those were never once brought up in any sex ed class I’ve taken in multiple states.

          Vasectomy, ligation, and essure were described in significant detail in my high-school health classes (St. Paul Public Schools, c. 2001).

          Although they certainly should be readily available as options, properly regulated, there are several reasons they are not emphasized, especially in the high-school curriculum. 1. They’re permanent. Vasectomies are technically reversible, but that’s not a particularly successful procedure; ligation can be reliably reversed but requires careful microsurgery; . 2. They’re expensive. The cost of a vasectomy is ~$1000 or less, but ligation and essure are ~$2000. Those are total costs, not the same as what an individual would pay. 3. Related to (2), it requires more specialist training to perform those procedures, as compared to providing other methods. This can limit availability.

          I also hate how none of the “pro birth control” people seem to ever care or do anything to help the most effective form of birth control

          Sterilization techniques are not the most effective forms of contraception for many people – the procedures are not performed correctly every time and different people heal differently. For people with ovaries, low-dose hormonal implants have equal-or-lower failure rates than essure and ligation (ref. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_birth_control_methods ), although they can have different side effects.

          That said, there is certainly room for improvement in contraceptive technologies – in particular, Vasalgel is apparently promising as a long-lasting reversible contraceptive method for people with testes (and not as involved a procedure as vasectomy, to say nothing of vasectomy reversal).

          • wolfcat

            Reversing a vasectomy is an extremely successful procedure:
            http://www.vasectomymedical.com/vasectomy-reversal-success-rates.html

            Reversing tubal ligation can be very successful up until the age where women should be reproducing less anyways.:
            http://healthcare.utah.edu/womenshealth/utah-center-for-reproductive-medicine/tubal-ligation-reversal.php#success

            rofl, “the procedures are not performed correctly every time and different people heal differently”

            How’s that any different from the failings of any other type of birth control? Scientifically, it is the most effective when done right. Yet, even Planned Parenthood of Southeastern Virginia leaves it out of it’s top 10 most effective forms of birth control for the most part (they only mention one method of one type) while managing to put abstinence as #1. Strange, eh?

            According to the government:

            “Female or male sterilization is the most common
            contraceptive method utilized by couples in the United States, with 36% of fertile women using contraception employing this method. According to the National Survey of Family Growth (2002), 10.3 million women (27%) rely on female sterilization for birth control, whereas 3.5 million
            women (9.2%) rely on vasectomy in their partners for contraception. The next most commonly utilized birth control method among American women is oral contraceptive pills, used by 11.7 million or 30.6% of women using contraception.

            About 700,000 female sterilizations are performed annually, half of which are performed within 48 hours post-partum.

            Sterilization is performed following 10% of all births. Approximately 345,000 female sterilizations are interval procedures that do not occur immediately following pregnancy. Approximately 500,000 vasectomies are performed annually for a rate of 9.9 procedures per 1000 men aged 25 to 49. Overall, the sterilization rates for men and women have remained constant over the past 40 years, although the surgical methods employed have changed with advances in technology and anesthesia.”
            http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2492586/

            According to one of my favorite sources, the Guttmacher Institute, the only more typical use (because as you pointed out people are screw-ups) effective form of birth control than tubal ligation is one type of IUD! Certainly less dangerous:
            http://www.yourlawyer.com/topics/overview/Mirena-IUD-Uterine-Perforation
            “The list of unwanted side effects of Mirena is quite long. These include
            amenorrhea, intermenstrual bleeding and spotting, abdominal pain,
            pelvic pain, ovarian cysts, headache, migraines, acne, depression, and
            mood swings. The Truth About Mirena
            website contains hundreds of detailed accounts of such side effects by
            women who have personally suffered from them. It makes for grim reading.”
            http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/the-mirena-iud-is-becoming-more-popular-and-the-lawsuits-are-piling-up/
            and more ethical.
            http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_contr_use.html

            Imagine what the failure rate would be with that, or a vasectomy, paired with any other form of birth control?

            Also, you’re vastly exaggerating the costs of a vasectomy or tubal ligation. It depends a bit more on quite a few things. Here, you can get a vasectomy for about $350.
            http://www.plannedparenthood.org/health-topics/birth-control/vasectomy-4249.htm
            So, I doubt tubal ligations are going to be through the roof cost wise either unless you’re a special circumstance or in an expensive area. Also, they are even cheaper for most people if you just had a kid. You most likely fit into the category of medicaid or having private insurance at that point. So, you’re right that it would cost less at least on this. It saves many women the anesthesia, hospital costs, etc when you bundle it. The only likely places for the cost being the highest would be more like NY where the cost of living is higher and where more expensive doctors reside. I live in po-dunk Montana and we still have plenty of doctors who can perform these procedures. So, unless you live in northern Alaska, anyone in the U.S. can get it done.

            Your one city worth of experience does not speak volumes. I’ve attended schools from GA to FL to MT.

            Note: Wikipedia is not a source anyone should be using in a debate.

            • Michael W Busch

              Reversing a vasectomy is an extremely successful procedure:

              50% successful pregnancy after 3-8 years. That’s not particularly successful, since the baseline is 85%-90%. And it is also a ~$2000 procedure (as before, total cost rather than patient cost).

              If Vasalgel or something similar lives up to the promise of the animal trials and has reversibility of ~90% and cost ~$200, then it will be a far different situation.

              Reversing tubal ligation can be very successful

              Yes, as I said, with careful microsurgery.

              How’s that any different from the failings of any other type of birth control? Scientifically, it is the most effective when done right.

              It isn’t. And, yes, it is the most effective “when done right”, but there is still a failure rate. Which happens to be greater than for several other methods. You are misusing the word “scientifically”, in that you are claiming something that is proven false by the data – jumping from “this is most effective when done correctly” to “this is most effective all the time”, the second part of which is not true.

              Re. cost: As I said already, I am quoting total costs, not what the patient pays. The former ends up being what is considered in public health deliberations.

              Your one city worth of experience does not speak volumes.

              I cited a counter-example, to illustrate that the omission you are quite right is a serious problem is not a universal problem. Consider it an encouraging sign.

              I cited Wikipedia because it lists all of the sources that I would otherwise have to cite one at a time, which is an entirely appropriate thing to do – you can go look up those sources to get the information if you want to. And the article concerned is very well-maintained, with nearly all bad edits being corrected within minutes, so the reference list will always be accessible.

              And since you apparently are unwilling to admit to your mistakes, I find myself uninterested in continuing this discussion. Goodbye.

              • wolfcat

                Learn to read, the success rate at 3-8 years is 88%. Having sperm does not make you automatically the most fertile guy around. Not to mention the ages of these men the longer they go on likely effects trying to knock up a woman. Especially if she’s aged right along with you. Common sense much?

                lol, According to Princeton University I am using scientifically perfectly.
                “scientifically-
                with respect to science; in a scientific way;
                “this is scientifically interesting”.”
                What is the point of the rest of that section of your comment? You said a whole lot of nothing. Besides admitting that permanent sterilization is best and reiterating what we all know; EVERY type of birth control can fail under the right circumstances. Even abstinence.

                3 states not teaching the most valuable, safest, and most effective form of birth control isn’t a “universal problem”? I doubt you’d say that if it were sex ed being cut out completely. rofl. It certainly does effect everyone when uneducated kids don’t learn about it and have 10 kids of their own. IE. Universal.

                Wikipedia is an awful source as illustrated by one young man who edited an article with a false quote, then a newspaper reporter used the quote which then validated the incorrect information because the false article was then cited to prove something that never happened happened…. Then more newspapers used the bad source. True story. Awful source for important and accurate information. I could go edit anything on there right now!

                Exiting is exactly what you should do when you can no longer contribute to a conversation. You need not announce your departure. Bye.

  • The Praetor

    What total idiocy. At least someone is bringing practices like this to light so they can be stopped. Thanks, Mr. Mehta.

  • rovinrockhound

    Ah, the spit cup demo. The germs of everyone your partner has ever touched are now on you. The horror!
    These people forget that our little microbiomes are working to keep us healthy, and that higher diversity is better (hence the hygiene hypothesis to explain the increase of allergies and autoimmune diseases).

    This recent NYT Magazine article is quite relevant: Some of My Best Friends are Germs

  • herpderp88

    More adoptions? That sounds great! So many kids out there need good homes!

  • Jo4an

    Yea, because learning actual facts and truth in school is overrated. I am utterly disgusted by these people.

  • scrzbill

    Lying is a christian value

  • Lucy

    This is disgusting. they didn’t even mention the pill! i have been on the pill over a year and it is a failsafe contraceptive! what the hell is this?! 1952?! and all that information about abortion is WRONG! I have had an abortion(before i was on the pill) and no instruments like that were used at all! and I am still fertile.

    • http://www.awaypoint.wordpress.com Valerie Tarico

      Well, the Pill isn’t quite fail safe. 1 in 12 women relying o the Pill gets pregnant each year compared to less than 1 in 500 with an IUD or implant. But it’s a lot more effective than any of the other alternatives. With no contraception more than 8 in 10 would get pregnant. And yes, as you said most first trimester abortions use a gentle aspirator rather than instruments. Here is a picture of the instruments that are sometimes used (and what comes out).

      • Michael W Busch

        Clarification: Before ~9 weeks gestation, purely medical abortions are the most effective method. Aspiration is more effective later in the first trimester, making it the most common method in the US at this time (ref. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion#Methods and its sources).

  • marecek

    “One school board member just figured the students would know fact from fiction”
    If teens can tell fact from fiction, then why would it ever be necessary for teachers to teach high school students accurate information. I guess it’s just okay when they are teaching the mythical information that accords with your own thinking. Can you believe the justifications these clowns cook up?

  • Cathy Baumgardner

    This is the very reason why parents need to educate their kids at home about sex. I would have been raving furious that my kids were lied to this way and I would have been raising hell with that school board.

    • Leigha7

      Unfortunately, it’s the kids whose parents refuse to teach them who suffer from this. They get no (or false) information from home and false information from school.

      Thank goodness for the internet. But many don’t know where to go to get reliable information, or won’t because their parents would flip if they found out they were looking.

  • Ursyl

    How will those teens know how to separate the fact from the fiction when all the school is teaching is the fiction?

  • Liz

    This is disgusting ignorance. Someone needs to educate these women.

  • Santiago Brin

    they forgot about the mosquito that can infect them with AIDS…….


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