The Boy Scouts of America Are Missing Out on Gay and Atheist Leaders

If you’re gay, you can now join the Boy Scouts of America.

… but only until you turn 18. If you’re a gay adult, you’re banned from the organization. Even if you were a proud scout growing up, you won’t be allowed to become a leader.

And if you’re an atheist of any age, the Scouts don’t want anything to do with you.

Sally Quinn of the Washington Post knows these policies make absolutely no sense and hammers it home in her latest column:

[Fictional scout] Johnny has a problem. If he says he is an atheist, he will have to quit and never be able to have anything to do with Scouting again. So, he pretends to believe in God. When he says the oath, he mumbles the part about duty to God and just says country. He lives a lie.

The good news is that after Johnny turns 18, he will be able to come out of the closet as a gay man and an atheist and finally live a life of truth. The bad news is that the Boy Scouts have turned Johnny into a liar, denied him his life ambition, kept him from fulfilling his potential, taught him that he is not a valued member of society and, worst of all, deprived the Boy Scouts of one of the best leaders the organization could have.

The Boy Scouts may be missing out, but groups that are not prejudiced at the core don’t have to. Unless the BSA revises its policies (again), there’s no good reason parents who are atheist or gay should support this organization, nor should public schools allow the BSA to freely advertise their religious group to students.

(Thanks to Ubi Dubium for the link)

About Hemant Mehta

Hemant Mehta is the editor of Friendly Atheist, appears on the Atheist Voice channel on YouTube, and co-hosts the uniquely-named Friendly Atheist Podcast. You can read much more about him here.

  • Rationalist1

    It’s a start and they have a ways to go. I’m a atheist Scout leader in Canada and although I’m straight, Scouts Canada has no issue with gay scouts or leaders. The experience with the real world that Scouting gives children these days is too important to limit access to all children. The adventures kids have at Scout camps are what they’ll tell their children and grand children about and each time they tell it there will be more snow at the winter camp and more rain at the spring camp.

    • Maaike

      May I ask, Rationalist1, if you’re open about your atheism with Scouts Canada? This past winter, my seven year old son expressed discomfort with the Beavers promise “to love God”. I asked his leader if there was precedence to modify the wording for non-religious families, and while we did, in the end, get the okay to omit that part of the promise, I was told that should my son ever cross from agnosticism to atheism, he wouldn’t be allowed to continue with scouting. I was also told that my husband and I – as atheists – need not ever apply to become leaders.

      • Rationalist1

        When was asked to be a leader I contacted Scouts Canada and said I was an atheist. They said all I needed to do was acknowledge “a power greater than mankind”. I was tempted to say “womankind” but resisted. Instead this universe we have found ourselves in is what’s greater than me and the awe I feel when I contemplate it is my duty to my God.

        I have Scouts who keep kosher, and I help them keep their duty to God, I have Scouts who are vegetarians and I help them keep their duty and had one scout who’s family were pagans ad I hadn’t a clue what to do so I told the father to join. ( use any excuse to get helpers).

        Each of my scouts does their own duty to their God in their own way. I do my duty by sharing my love for the natural world and my fascination with astronomy.

        • http://gamesgirlsgods.blogspot.com/ Feminerd

          Would “physics” have counted as “a power greater than [hu]mankind”?

          • Rationalist1

            In my opinion the universe is, physics is just how we try to understand the universe. My background is physics so I hold it in high regard, but it’s only our understanding of something incredible.

            • http://gamesgirlsgods.blogspot.com/ Feminerd

              Well yeah. But that’s the point. There isn’t anything supernatural out there; the term physics is used for the discipline by which we try to understand the universe and also describes the universal forces it attempts to explain. So “gravity” or “strong nuclear force” is a force greater than humanity, in a sense.

              Basically, it was my oblique way of saying that’s a really fucking stupid requirement.

              • Rationalist1

                I agree there isn’t anything supernatural out there and fortunately Scouts Canada doesn’t require that. It only requires acknowledging something greater than us. It vague because it has to accommodate a variety of religious expressions and, fortunately in my case, none at all.

                Would I like them to get rid of God in the promise, sure. But not the realization that there is something greater than us, however we choose to interpret it,

      • Rationalist1

        As to applying to become leaders it depends upon the other leaders. I certainly would welcome you as long as you know how to light a campfire in a rainstorm but it is up to the local leader group.

      • MD

        I can’t wait for the UK Scouts to come up with their non-religious promise. It’s in the works.

        • Rationalist1

          In the meantime, your duty to God is not something to fret over as you define your own God.

          • MD

            Exactly! I wasn’t an atheist when I became a Scout Leader, but my group leader knew that I was areligious. He had no problem with that.

  • Chas, PE

    I teach boating safety for another organization. We applied to instruct for BSA, but connections were never made. Probably just because.
    But, if they had told me that they didn’t want me instructing scouts in boating because of my lack of religious belief, I’d say, “So: You would prefer your son drown, for lack of the knowledge I would give him, than for him to spend any time with a non-theist, even though we wouldn’t be talking theology?”

    • Hat Stealer

      The important thing is making sure that when he drowns he won’t go to Hell.

    • Cocky Bastard

      I always hated Scouts, and dropped out early. There were two older kids who always acted “funny” toward us little guys, always putting their hands on us, and other creepy shit.

      I didn’t understand what was happening at the time, but latter I found out those scumbags were gay.

      Good riddance to the Scouts.

  • Mackinz

    As someone who tried to be an ambassador for atheists on a conservative site’s response to this article, I can safely say I have seen the depths of stupidity and intolerance of even the slightest possibility of atheistic scouts.

    Here’s the particular article, if you are interested in reading some of the comments: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tim-graham/2013/06/09/washpost-faith-editor-sally-quinn-still-hates-boy-scouts-until-theyre-we

    I’m at the bottom. :)

    • WallofSleep

      Ah, Newsbusters. You’re a brave one. I don’t need to click over to read the comments, I’ve seen enough wingnut to know where this is going. Hey, but at least you tried.

      • Hat Stealer

        Jesus Christ, I just went over there and had a look. I think I may have been permanently scarred.

        So many empty assertions, so little evidence.

        • Space Cadet

          I went, too. So many slippery slopes that are going to happen, so many that have already happened.

          Ugh. I feel dirty now.

  • Guest

    BamaJack, You need to understand the difference between gay and pedophile. Gays have no interest in “forcing their sexual orientation” on your son. Pedophiles…well, they have never been invited into the movement, and should be (but aren’t, necessarily), prosecuted.

    • Edmond

      Heterosexuals keep their orientations to themselves? Really? Do they do that with their wedding rings, or with their family photos? Do they refrain from any mention of their loved ones? Do they alter pronouns as they speak, so the gender of the person they are spending their life with stays secret?

      They don’t do ANY of these things. They feel perfectly free to be themselves, and to be open about the people in their lives. I’m not sure what you mean by “keep your sexual orientation to yourself”, but it sounds like you want gay people to keep their private lives entirely secret, or even lie and pretend to be something they’re not. Have YOU tried living this way?

    • The Captain

      “Why not just keep your sexual orientation to yourself, like heterosexuals do” so are you really arguing that heterosexual scout leaders must never mention that they have a wife? So cool, you’re all for trowing out any scout leader who has their wife pick up the kids, help out, or even be known of in any way then? Nahhhh somehow I bet not. Somehow I think what you really mean is two different standards of treatment for heterosexuals, and homosexuals while acting like your treating everyone the same.

    • Bill

      Okay, let me get this straight… literally. I, as a straight person, should keep my
      sexual orientation private. So, I should
      never tell anybody I have a wife. If my
      wife drops me off at a Scouting event (where I am a Scout Master) I should
      introduce her as a friend – have to keep my sexual orientation to myself you
      know! If somebody asks about my son’s
      mother, I instruct him to never say that I and his mother have a relationship –
      have to keep my sexual orientation private you know! This is ridiculous, and you know it. You also know that would be ridiculous for a
      gay person to pull off. Do you have no
      empathy? I am straight, but I am
      totally embarrassed that gay people have to live a lie. You should be too, if you have an ounce of
      empathy. BTW, when I was in Boy Scouts,
      I had to lie about my belief in a god.
      That too is not right. Get a clue
      and reassess your inner need to hold other people to a standard you, so
      fortunate one, don’t have to abide to just because you perceive yourself to be
      in the majority.

      • The Captain

        Awwwwww so you just don’t want to hear people talk about things you don’t like. Do you? You special little snowflake!

        Well I got news for you. Hold on, this is going to be big… ready…. The world doesn’t fucking cater to your needs. The rest of us, don’t have to do every little thing you tell us too. Sorry, but you are not king shit of the world. If I want to talk about banging my girl in the ass, I will. It’s my freedom!

        Now if you don’t want to hear all that nasty stuff you don’t like, then I got a great solution… stay in your little fucking house, in your little fucking bubble and stop trying to boss the rest of us around because the rest of the people on the planet don’t have to make sure your special little ass feel comfortable the whole time.

      • http://confessionsfromthepeanutgallery.blogspot.com/ YankeeCynic

        Ahhhh, the naturalist fallacy. Technically, the same could be said about all manner of things. Vaccines, certain dietary products, medicine. But I’m guessing you don’t think those are icky, so whatevs right?

        Guess what: your right to live in an idiotic, bigoted bubble ends as soon as someone else’s right to live their lives as they see fit begins. If your beliefs and/or relationships are that bloody fragile that you can’t STAND to see anything that contradicts it, perhaps you should look inwards, not outwards.

        • Mackinz

          Problem with your logic: Many homosexual couples do not enjoy anal sex.

          Also, many heterosexual couples DO.

          • WallofSleep

            It’s pretty clear what his obsessive desires are, considering the focus of his fantasies.

        • http://confessionsfromthepeanutgallery.blogspot.com/ YankeeCynic

          Yes, and regular sex also spreads disease (like HIV, HPV, Herpes), tears tissue, and can cause serious urinary tract issues. Additionally, pregnancy can cause serious, deadly medial issues as well. Pregnancy being relatively safe and magical (which in many ways it isn’t) is a new concept. The whole impetus for contraception in America was for that very reason; women were tired of having to spin the proverbial barrel of the revolver every time they or their husband got horny.

          In short, sexual activity regardless of the types involved can be dangerous if the parties involved don’t take necessary steps to protect themselves. In fact, the only reason it seems like you’re discounting these risks is because they have implications for your orientations standard sexual activity. Hardly intellectually rigorous, that.

          • http://confessionsfromthepeanutgallery.blogspot.com/ YankeeCynic

            Yes, and the vaginal passage also plays a part in the digestive process.

            Way to duck away from the rest of the argument, though.

            • http://confessionsfromthepeanutgallery.blogspot.com/ YankeeCynic

              You do realize that sex isn’t just about reproduction, right? It certainly isn’t for me; I really don’t want children, and I don’t intend to have any. The same applies to a lot of people.

              That said, forgive my poor use of terminology. The reproductive tract of a woman’s body and the waste excretion tract are essentially co-located when examining things from the perspective of risk/benefit analysis. That’s one of the reason that 75% of UTIs contracted by sexually active women tend to come from sexual activity. The point being, which you’re goal-post shifting away, is that if your criticism of anal sex (which as was pointed out isn’t the only method of sexual intercourse out there for homosexuals) is that it can cause health problems. I’m pointing out the SAME PROBLEM exists for heterosexual sex.

              • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

                Oh, so gay oral sex is fine, it’s just the anal variety you’re obsessed with? You know, I’d have a problem with someone describing oral sex to my kid, so you just keep it to yourself, ok?

              • SirReal

                Um, you do know that heterosexual people use the anus for sexual pleasure, right? And not just penis to anus. We have other appendages that fit nicely in there and that feel good, too.

              • Hat Stealer

                Erm, you know there are nerves in the anus that serve as sexual stimulants? It’s not like people get no pleasure whatsoever from anal sex. By your logic, anal sex is natural as well, because the anal cavity is built so that people can derive sexual pleasure from it.

              • allein

                non-lubricated

                Easily remedied with a trip to the drugstore.

            • allein

              No, but the penis does.

          • Hat Stealer

            The anus doesn’t care what it’s used for. It doesn’t have feelings. There is no instruction manual that comes with the anus that says “for digestive purposes only.” Here’s a fun fact: homosexual relationships are totally natural. They occur in nature. There are gay animals of all sorts. And I can assure you that anal sex does not tear the anus into two clean halves as you seem to think.

        • Brian

          You just love focusing on the sex, don’t you?

          I am gay, but not sex-driven. A loving, committed relationship is more important to me than sex. I’d rather go for a sexless, but loving relationship for a lifetime than a single one-night stand.

        • MD

          Because it’s all about the S-E-X for you. Newsflash: heterosexual couples also engage in anal sex. Homosexual couples don’t all have anal sex. And guess what, I don’t know who’s having what kind of intercourse because IT’S NONE OF MY BUSINESS.

      • Mackinz

        Natural? As in, found in nature?

        Well now, I think we have a problem with your logic.

        See this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals

        Also, religion is one of the oldest unnatural things about the human race. Do you really want to go there?

        • Mackinz

          Hey, it’s your argument.

          So which is it? Is it natural or not?

          Or does it being natural even matter?

          Since we are currently partaking in a discussion on an entirely unnatural forum, I’m going to go with the answer of “No”.

        • http://confessionsfromthepeanutgallery.blogspot.com/ YankeeCynic

          I’ll take goal-post shifting for six facepalms, Alec.

          • WallofSleep

            “I’ll take goal-post shifting for six facepalms, Alec.”

            Oh for fuck’s sake! Is that supposed to be a “Jeopardy” reference?!?

            Proud American patriot that I am, I can not allow this disrespect of a decent Canadian to stand .

            His name is Alex.
            ALEX FUCKING TREBEK!!! MEMORIZE THAT SHIT!!!

            [This message has been brought to you by an atheist who is just fucking with you]

            • http://confessionsfromthepeanutgallery.blogspot.com/ YankeeCynic

              Maybe I was referring to a mythical version of the gameshow that’s hosted by Alec Trevelyan from Goldeneye.

              “CLOSING ROUND, JAMES! LAST BOARD!”
              “WHAT IS BUY ME A PINT?!”

        • C.L. Honeycutt

          Awww, poor, poor hypocritical angrums, argues against it because it’s “unnatural”, then when proven wrong, argues that nature is not a basis for activity. Poor angrums.

          • onamission5

            For someone who is as skeeved out by anal sex as you claim to be, you sure do like to talk about it a lot.

            • WallofSleep

              Tellingly, the only one here who seems to be shoving gay sex at anyone is BamaJack. That poor man needs professional help.

          • C.L. Honeycutt

            So therefore no one should ever kiss, caress, or any other such thing in your world because those are digestive and manipulative organs.

            Sex is never logical. It’s instinctive (and not everyone’s instincts are identical). Grow up, man-child.

            Oh, terrible job you did right there of trying to dodge the point. Jesus you’re bad at this.

            • Hat Stealer

              It’s called the ad anusem fallacy.

          • Artor

            SOME humans have the ability to use reason and logic. Some others don’t. I’m looking at you BamaJack. Are you trolling, or are you this stupid all the time?

            • WallofSleep

              ¿Porque no las dos?

          • Yoav

            Humans, unlike the rest of the animal kingdom, have the ability of reason and logic

            No one would be able to tell that from your comments.

          • Kodie

            Using our bodies to play basketball is unnatural. We invented it and everyone loves the shit out of basketball. You can even talk about it at scout camp and encourage children to play it.

          • The Other Weirdo

            Heh. You’ve never watched “Team America: World Police” I take it. The uncut version.

        • Hat Stealer

          Ah yes, the inevitable reply to “but homosexuality is natural, it’s found in nature.”

          It’s always the same. Some bigot somewhere says that homosexuality isn’t natural. Someone refutes that by pointing out the many examples of homosexuality in nature. What does the bigot do, absolutely 100% of the time?

          “Well we’re not animals.”

          I’ll add another facepalm to yours, Alex.

      • Bill

        Wow, you have given this a lot of thought. I don’t get it; why do homophobic people
        always go into such detail regarding what repulses them? I am not gay, so I don’t have any reason to give
        “gay sex” any thought. I have no need
        to, but apparently you do and in pretty good detail. By the way, when did you decide to be straight?

        • Mackinz

          If you want to announce that you are a straight male/female who wants to have sex with a member of the opposite sex, you are annoucing to the world your sexual desires.

        • RobMcCune

          Sure you do, by your own admission.

        • Brian

          Again, why focus on the sexual desires? Do you not realize that there are also romantic desires? YOU are the one focusing on the sex.

          Let me be blunt: If you interfere with my right to live my life as I wish, I will fight back. If you don’t believe me, then maybe you will believe my second amendment rights. We are going to live our life as we please, and we are not going to go out of our way to hide our lives just to appease you.

      • RobMcCune

        You seem to care quite a bit, why else would you be flipping out about it?

        • RobMcCune

          Once they get to know you I’m sure they won’t want to share their fetishes with a homophobe.

          • RobMcCune

            Says the guy whose philosophy is that when all else fails yell “BUTTSEX!11!!!!”, for the children of course.

          • Artor

            Nothing else in this thread has failed except you. The shoe fits buddy.

        • Kodie

          You are obsessed with adding graphic detail to the revelation that someone is gay instead of straight. That’s your fucking problem right there. You can’t live in the real world with people who trigger your obsessive thoughts about what parts are going where. They’re not sharing that with you, they’re not sharing that with kids in scouts. You can’t handle the truth!

      • Kodie

        That’s not topical for a Scout meeting, so why do you think the gay people would act inappropriately? Heterosexual scout leaders probably talk about boobs though. I don’t really know since I’m not a boy or a scout, but part of growing up in a patriarchal society and possibly one of the reasons for keeping the BSA “pure” is so that they can objectify women!

        I am being ridiculous but isn’t that how grown men initiate adolescent boys into the pure heterosexual masculinity? Isn’t that why they want to be alone without women around, or anyone else who might be more attracted to them than the kinds of people who aren’t allowed to be there? I know this that men like venues where there are no women so they can brag and tell nasty jokes amongst themselves. I don’t think the Boy Scouts are talking amongst themselves about knots and fishing.

      • Brian

        And who the hell died and made you ultimate arbiter of what is
        perverted and unnatural and what is not? You have NO RIGHT WHATSOEVER to
        force your beliefs on the rest of us!

        You are just afraid that it is getting harder to indoctrinate your kids into your homophobic way of thinking.

        Methinks doth protest too much.

      • Carmelita Spats

        Your brain on faith is fried. If you take your argument to its bizarre conclusions, you CANNOT use ANY type of contraception OTHER than the Catholic method since divorcing sex from procreation is UNNATURAL! So, heterosexual sex while ON ARTIFICIAL CONTRACEPTION is *gasp* UNNATURAL, perverted, bad for the skin, and makes Baby Jesus cry! The Catholic Church would agree with this which is why they are against not just homosexuality but ARTIFICIAL BIRTH CONTROL. In order to be natural, you and your wife would have to practice abstinence, chart her temperature like a dog in heat, check her vaginal mucus, and have sex when she is not ovulating or close to ovulation. By the time you do the math, you would have one week for sexual activity unless you increase the time by having sex during her menstrual cycle! Enjoy!

        Besides, how “natural” was the not-so-virgin Mary’s insemination by a Space Ghost who was her own Son since you believe the Father and Son are ONE? Was it a Dad-Son tag team? Homosexuality is the LEAST of your worries. You need to straighten out Yahweh’s bizarre sexual fetishes when it comes to his risible *Genius Plan* to save mankind. I don’t want to be forced to explain to MY kid Yahweh’s perversions which is precisely why I oppose those creepy manger scenes on TAX-EXEMPT property. Keep your God’s icky sexual fetishes to yourself. Glory!

      • unclemike

        Are you under the impression that perverted swingers clubs or anal babes of the month are standard topics of conversation for scouts, gay or straight?

    • onamission5

      They should keep their orientation to themselves?
      You first.

      • onamission5

        What exactly is it you think you’re doing here, if you’re not flaunting your heterosexual privilege? What is it you do every time you ask a woman out, or mention your wife or girlfriend? You are announcing your heterosexuality. You’ve announced it over and over while shitting up this comment thread. We get it. You’re straight, and you hate buttseks so much that you feel the need to talk about it at length and in creepy levels of detail with total strangers. Point made.

      • http://confessionsfromthepeanutgallery.blogspot.com/ YankeeCynic

        Why would we bloody-well have to? Seriously, we’re the majority of the population, have entire laws and tax incentives to facilitate our sexual predilections, and have had laws and legislation designed to maintain that level of privilege.

        That’s like saying that you don’t see Christians coming out and constantly bringing up that they’re Christian and…oh.

      • MD

        Don’t you ever dare hold your wife’s hand in public ever again. Or even mention her name. Your graphic displays of heterosexuality disgust me.

        Edited to correct a misspelled word. Ack.

      • http://parkandbark.wordpress.com/ Houndentenor

        So they go all week without mentioning their spouse?

      • Brian

        “I don’t see heterosexuals coming out to announce their heterosexuality.” — BamaJack

        ARE YOU THAT DENSE?

        Every time I see a guy and a girl holding hands in public, they are announcing their heterosexuality.

        Every time I see a guy and a girl kissing in public, however discreet, they are announcing their heterosexuality.

        Every time I hear a guy talk about his girlfriend, he is announcing his heterosexuality.

        Every time I hear a guy talk about his wife, he is announcing his heterosexuality.

        Every time I hear a guy say “Look at that hot chick!”, he is announcing his heterosexuality.

        NEED I GO ON?

    • http://parkandbark.wordpress.com/ Houndentenor

      I’ve never met a heterosexual who kept his or her sexuality to him/herself.

  • Caustic Agnostic

    As an agnostic humanist mother I have no problem with Christians around my children but the second they try to force their religious beliefs on my children THATS when I have a problem. Funny thing is, if your son’s not gay no one will ever make him gay. Ever. My children (despite being raised as freethinkers) are impressionable and could be brainwashed, taught hate and intolerance by a pseudo-Christian extremist and could be harmed by adults being cruel to them about their religious beliefs. (at 8 mo and 3 1/2 they have seen plenty of religious cruelty so it does exist) – Peace from the Caustic Agnostic (who is having log in issues tonight)

  • Guest

    The Boy Scouts strike me as a purely American phenomenon. Nothing like that exists in say, Europe. I don’t see what the point is. They’re not a major part of American education or anything.

    • Mackinz

      No scouts in Europe?

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scouting#Membership

      The heavy emphasis on religion IS a purely American phenomenon, though. It’s sad that the Boy Scouts of America is so far behind other western nations in regards to atheist/agnostic acceptance.

    • MD

      Scouting began in 1907 in Brownsea Island, United Kingdom. It was a youth movement founded by Lord Robert Baden-Powell. It then spread to the rest of the world. The U.S. is one of the few Western nations that still keeps Scouting gender segregated.

      Edit: Belgium has a really strong Scouting movement, most kids give it a go at least once.

  • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

    You’re weird.

    • WallofSleep

      It’s pretty clear he spends much more time thinking about gay, male sex than the average gay male does. He’s not just weird, he’s got some pretty serious, unresolved issues.

      • Miss_Beara

        That is what happens often. People that are against gays sure think and talk about gay sex a lot.

        • WallofSleep

          It’s quite telling in his case. All this time, effort, and detail devoted to fantasizing about gay sex, and it is exclusively focused on gay, male sex, with nary a word about gay, female sex. It’s more than obvious where his predilections lie, and it’s sad to watch him struggle in denial like this.

          • Miss_Beara

            I almost never hear/read the words “I don’t want to see lesbian sex paraded around me and my children!” It is always centered on men and their bedroom activities and of course leaving out the fact that straight couples partake in similar things but you never hear complaining about that.

            • WallofSleep

              “Lesbian sex makes me sick!”, said no one, ever.

              • smalltownamy

                Not entirely true, but it sure does get celebrated in porn made for straight men, doesn’t it?

                A lesbian was nearly beaten to death by her brother when he found out about her girlfriend. He was reported as having shouted many hateful things about lesbian sex.

                But, yeah. I’m not sure why this nut job is only focused on sex between men when lesbians might also be scout leaders if allowed. It’s like when AIDS was god’s wrath on homosexuals (except lesbians almost never get AIDS through sex).

  • Artor

    There are no such gay extremists anywhere but in your fevered imagination.

  • The Captain

    Right back at ya.

    It’s not that I care if you’re christian, it’s that I DON’T care that you are christian… So much so that I don’t want to hear about your unnatural perverted religious desires, with other invisible beings, or in many cases, unfortunately, children. A man who is creepy enough to feel the need to announce to the world that he likes to satisfy his emotional desires by inventing some invisible friend is beyond enough reason for me to seriously question the safety of my children with that person.

    So, then I guess you will be apologising to me for mentioning that you are a christian as you did in your first post, thus shoving your perversion into my face? Right?

  • Rationalist1

    As a Scout leader, sexual orientation, either heterosexual or homosexual, just isn’t an issue. The topic just never comes up.

    • Rationalist1

      I know many gays, as friends and at work, and they don’t talk about their sexual orientation. They have a friend, they have a spouse (here in Canada gay marriage has been the case for over a decade) and it’s no big thing. Kids don’t have the hangups our generation had.

      And since Scouting here is co-ed, and with the exception of the talk on how to keep oneself safe from sexual predators, the topic of sexuality just never comes up.

    • http://confessionsfromthepeanutgallery.blogspot.com/ YankeeCynic

      Because, gee, I don’t know, because they’ll get thrown out on their ass if anyone catches on, regardless of if they say anything or not?

      I mean good fucking christ, this isn’t a hard concept to grasp.

      • Glasofruix

        He’s not good at grasping concepts

    • RobMcCune

      They don’t, you’re the one salivating for more details.

    • http://parkandbark.wordpress.com/ Houndentenor

      Here’s out it works when you are gay. Straight people talk on and on about their spouses, fiances and girlfriends. But if we even mention that we are gay we are “flaunting our sexual orientation.” I have never worked with a gay person, male or female” who talked about his or her sexuality even 1% as much as the typical heterosexual person. And yet people are offended by that 1%. Feel the need to talk about it? We self-censor to the point of absurdity to placate bigots like you. And it’s still not enough.

  • WallofSleep
    • http://confessionsfromthepeanutgallery.blogspot.com/ YankeeCynic

      You know, maybe they’re the same because your ideas are (spoiler alert) just that played out.

  • Rationalist1

    I think you need help. You realize that type of talk would get you thrown out of any camp I was in charge of. I sent a parent volunteer home once for telling anti-Semitic jokes to the Scouts.

    • SirReal

      So BamaJack… are the straight leaders sitting around sharing their sexual desires to children? Of course not. And if so, they should be removed.
      No adult, gay or straight, joins as a leader so they can influence the boys one way or the other as far as sex goes. They do so to be a mentor to boys, especially in large cities where boys need all the mentoring they can get.
      Gay men aren’t interested in chatting up their sex lives with the average person on the street… heck, I’ve heard more sex talk from the average straight man. I’d be more worried about the sex chat at the Teen Center at the local YMCA where my son hangs out a few afternoons a week with his friends.

      • http://confessionsfromthepeanutgallery.blogspot.com/ YankeeCynic

        Right, because those work SO BLOODY WELL.

      • Hat Stealer

        So long as straight leaders hide their sexuality as well.

        Or here’s an idea? How about letting people be open about their sexuality? You seem to think that being open about sexuality equates to describing exactly where your penis went last night, which strikes me as a little immature. People can be open about who they are without describing their sex life to children.

      • SirReal

        Stifling one’s speech is never the answer, but nice try. It’s not the voice that needs amending… it’s the mind of the receiver. Accept that gays exist, they are not out to molest your children, and let it go. Stop worrying so much about what other people do in the privacy of their bedroom with their partner.

    • Kodie

      Christ sake, you are obsessed! Why would anyone talk about banging anything in the ass at a scout meeting or camp? It’s like you can’t know someone is gay without trying to picture how it goes in private! You
      really think gay adult scout leaders would be as immature as you are? I don’t think I hear straight people talking about banging anyone in the front from behind in front of kids, but I certainly have an idea that many Christians can’t shut the fuck up about the lord for 30 seconds without feeling persecuted. Fucking is what adults do – they don’t normally describe it to children unless they are educating kids about sex – something else Christians are squeamish to do. Fucking is what adults do – and even if you know they are married and have children, it’s not normal to picture the procreative process. You have a problem where you find out someone is gay and you can’t handle an average normal conversation suddenly because all you can think about is buttsex.

      You think they’re gross? You’re gross!

    • Brian

      Sounds like a great idea! Straight boys are not allowed to discuss
      their girlfriends, or even mention so much as the fact that they like a
      certain girl whatsoever!

      Straight married male scoutleaders are not allowed to mention their wives or even imply that they are married or have kids of their own.

      Sounds like a great plan!

    • baal

      Saying “this is my spouse” for either the hetero or homo sex spouses tells you the same amount of information. Me telling you I’m bi(for want of a better term, slut works too) does not actually mean I’m dying to do you.

  • The Captain

    You said “don’t tell ME details”. Not “don’t tell kid in scouts” no homosexuals are describing anal sex to scouts.

    • Miss_Beara

      And I am pretty sure nobody is going to tell this guy about anal sex either. For someone who is against it he sure thinks about it a lot.

      • WallofSleep

        “For someone who is against it he sure thinks about it a lot.”

        To the point of obsession, it would seem. How very sad.

  • Bill

    BamaJack,… Wow, you have given this a lot of thought. I don’t get it; why do homophobic people
    always go into such detail regarding what repulses them? I am not gay, so I don’t have any reason to give
    “gay sex” any thought. I have no need
    to, but apparently you do and in pretty good detail. By the way, when did you decide to be straight?

    • WallofSleep

      “Wow, you have given this a lot of thought.”

      And an awful lot of hand lotion and kleenex too, I’ll wager.

    • C.L. Honeycutt

      Seriously, he is imagining the HELL out of some anal sex, isn’t he? If only he’d stop sharing his creepy sexual desires…

    • Brian

      I swear, this guy is more obsessed with gay sex than I am…. and I am gay!

  • Miss_Beara

    Nobody is “announcing” anything. And you do know that hetero couples engage in that as well. It is something I would never ever partake in, but I don’t care what anyone else does in the bedroom.

    question the safety of my children with that person.

    Being gay does not equal molesting children. It is insulting to even insinuate that.

  • RobMcCune

    Bamajack insists the only graphic sex stories his kids get to hear are about PIV between him and his wife.

    • RobMcCune

      Why you believe every is out share pornography with your kids for starters

      • RobMcCune

        If tell kids who you like is sharing your sexual disires with others then telling your kids that you are married is pornography, of course, that is using your “logic.”

        • RobMcCune

          Quit telling graphic sex stories to your kids then.

          • RobMcCune

            But he’s know you’re married for a long time, you’ve been telling him the details of your sex life and all your sexual preferences when you told him you’re married.

            then telling your kids that you are married is pornography, of course, that is using your “logic.”

            To which you agreed

            My point exactly…

          • Mackinz

            There’s the “unnatural” comment again.

            Once again, as homosexuality is something found in nature, it is not unnatural.

            Homophobia is, however.

            It bears mentioning that anal sex is also natural. So is nasal sex (Dolphins).

            So your argument has no weight. None. You are wrong. You are a homophobe with irrational fears about two men or two women enjoying the company of each other.

            • Mackinz

              I’ll teach my kids that some people like to be kinky and that there is nothing wrong with that as long as it is not in public.

              I will also teach my kids that some people think that people showing affection for one another in a private location is wrong.

              I will let my kids make their own decisions after letting them experience the world. Can’t say the same for your kids who will grow up sheltered while the rest of the world grows ever more tolerant of the same things that the ancient Greeks, Romans, etc, had already accepted.

            • WallofSleep

              “You are a homophobe with irrational fears about two men or two women enjoying the company of each other.”

              Nope. His fantasies have exclusively focused on male on male anal sex, without a single word mentioning lesbian sex. There’s little doubt in my mind what his problem is. Denial and self loathing.

          • Brian

            YOU ARE THE ONE who won’t leave it alone! YOU are the one who keeps bringing up the sex! YOU have more desire to talk about gay sex than I, a gay man, does!

        • Brian

          GET IT THROUGH YOUR THICK HEAD!

          We are NOT attempting to share our sexual practices with kids!

          We are NOT attempting to share our sexual practices with kids!

          We are NOT attempting to share our sexual practices with kids!

          We are NOT attempting to share our sexual practices with kids!

          Write the above sentence out BY HAND one thousand time, or until you figure this out!

        • Hat Stealer

          Just as straight scout leaders do not tell graphic stories about their sex lives to children, gay scouts will not either.

      • SirReal

        By that logic, of course, straight men should never mention women to the boys or the fact that they are married, either. If someone mentions they are gay, it is not an invitation to do the deed. It is an indication of the gender of a person they love. Just like mentioning that I’m heterosexual is not an invitation to visit the bedroom but merely saying I find men attractive and I’m in love with one. It has nothing to do with sex. Geez.

        • WallofSleep

          Of course you are right, but apparently you can’t say the word “gay” without BJ immediately launching into a fantasy about two or more men engaging in anal sex. He has a fetishistic obsession with it, and unfortunately can not come to terms with his own desires.

      • allein

        Why do you assume every gay man enjoys anal sex?

    • C.L. Honeycutt

      Saying, “I’m gay” is not sharing a sexual fetish, partially because there are no sexual details contained in that statement, any more than there are when you say, “I’m married”, and partially because being gay isn’t a fetish, you stupid, hatefilled, obsessive sack. What’s so hard to understand here?

      • WallofSleep

        No, being gay is not a fetish, but Jack clearly has a fetish fantasy focused on gay, anal sex. I almost feel sorry for him.

    • SirReal

      We’re not the ones misunderstanding, my friend… that is you. We’re saying it won’t happen but you keep insisting it will.

    • Mackinz

      No graphic sexual fetishes? I hope you won’t expose them to the Bible, then. There are much more graphic things in there than any amount of anal sex.

    • baal

      “I’m Bi” is not a graphic sexual fetish. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

    • SirReal

      Saying “I’m gay” is not a graphic sexual fetish to anyone but you, Jack. To the rest of us, it’s like me saying “I’m heterosexual.” It’s a descriptor of one small part of my life that has nothing to do with sex. One can be gay, just as one can be hetero, without EVER having sex. It is only people such as yourself who hear “gay” and immediately picture something graphic in your head. Your kids won’t think like that unless YOU tell them that’s what it means (which would be a disservice to both your children and homosexuals).

  • http://confessionsfromthepeanutgallery.blogspot.com/ YankeeCynic

    Citation needed.

    Oh, here it is:

    “1. BamaJack’s ass.”

    • Kodie

      It’s one-way only but prolific.

      • WallofSleep

        And much to his dismay, I presume, the only thing being pulled out of it.

  • C.L. Honeycutt

    “If and when my imaginary boogey/strawmen show up, THAT’S when we’ll have a problem.”

    FIFY

  • SirReal

    Check your facts again… the overwhelming majority of pedophiles (child molesters) are straight men, usually those in a position of power (fathers, priests, uncles, neighbor next door, etc.). Gay means attracted to other men. Period. Sex is sex. Period. You need help… honestly, you do.

    “Using the fixated-regressed distinction, Groth and Birnbaum (1978) studied 175 adult males who were convicted in Massachusetts of sexual assault against a child. None of the men had an exclusively homosexual adult sexual orientation. 83 (47%) were classified as “fixated;” 70 others (40%) were classified as regressed adult heterosexuals; the remaining 22 (13%) were classified as regressed adult bisexuals.”
    (http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html)

  • WallofSleep

    Ah yes, BamaJack. Who recently said to a (presumably female) commenter here:

    “Nobody wants to know about your nasty, funky cunt.”

    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2013/06/05/the-christian-church-wont-become-more-inclusive-and-thats-good-for-all-of-us/

    Why that comment was allowed to stand, and why he is allowed access to this forum to continue to spread his vile, hateful, fantastical nonsense is beyond me.

    • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

      There are a few things Hemant doesn’t tolerate. That’s one of them. He must have missed it.

    • TCC

      I don’t see that comment, although I do see that one comment was actually deleted. Do you have a link to the specific comment in question? (Whether or not BamaJack should be banned is another matter entirely.)

      • WallofSleep

        It’s been deleted in the time since I’ve made the above comment. I still have another window open showing it. Should I quote it in full, or should I let deleted dogs lie?

        BTW, that question was not rhetorical, I’m still learning the protocols here.

        • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

          It’s almost like there’s an invisible man in the sky watching us…

          (let it lie, what you’ve already quoted is enough)

        • TCC

          No, I think we all know enough of BamaJack without repeating some of the viler things he’s said.

    • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/ Hemant Mehta

      It was deleted and he has been banned.

      • http://boldquestions.wordpress.com/ Ubi Dubium

        Thank you.

      • Rationalist1

        Thank you. I hope gets help.

      • baal

        Thanks, he was excessively trollish.

      • WallofSleep

        You have my gratitude, sir.

  • Yoav

    You don’t remember the exact statistics because they don’t exist. I would suggest you were about to pull some out of your ass but we all know you get obsessed with other things once the rectum is mentioned.

  • http://parkandbark.wordpress.com/ Houndentenor

    LOL. Have you met any of the gay men who were Eagle scouts and want to participate in scouting as adults? None of them could be called “extremists”. They grew up to be exactly what Scouting is supposed to be about and now they are rejected by the very same organization. Who is the extremist?

  • ZeldasCrown

    Here’s a little something I’ve been thinking about this morning: There have always been gay members of the BSA, it’s just that in the past nobody knew they were gay. If you are a person who is rabidly anti-gay, obviously you don’t want your children “exposed to their perversion”, or “subject to their undue influences”, or “made to be gay”, or “obviously at great risk of being molested.” Wouldn’t you want to know who is gay so that you can have your child avoid that “evil” person? Shouldn’t the thought of some secret gay person underhandedly having unfettered access to your children and indoctrinating them terrify you? Shouldn’t you be fearful of closeted gays secretly spreading the “vile gay agenda?” After all, you cannot tell that some is gay just by looking at them, so wouldn’t every adult your child met be suspect? I would think that, for this reason, people who think this way would want gay people to come out, so that they know who to have their children avoid.

    Or are they simply so deluded that they believe that if nobody says they are gay, than no gay people actually exist?

    • onamission5

      I think they are deluded enough that they think if they say no gay people can join, then no gay people will join, because gay people are very obedient? Just saying “no gay” means that no existing members will get the idea they could have a non-hetero sexual orientation. ‘Cause that is how it works, gayness is trendy and caused by external factors, so if you forbid it, nobody will get the idea in their head to be it. Just like how if you force strict gender roles that means no one will born intersex (and if they are just give them surgery then lie to them about their gender, they’ll never know the difference) and nobody will ever get the idea that they could be trans* because original thoughts and self reflection don’t happen in kids, kids only ever have thoughts or feelings that they are told about ahead of time.

      Not only is that sort of attitude harmfully ignorant on sexuality and gender, it’s pretty damned condescending toward children.

      • ZeldasCrown

        I think you are right. Or, if we forbid sex before marriage, all of those Christian teenagers who are pregnant don’t really exist (only those godless secular girls become pregnant). Or how there’s just a lot of 8,9 pound premature-5 month babies born to newlywed couples. The level of delusion is really astounding. Clearly, human behavior has shown over and over again that simply telling people (particularly those hormonal teenagers!) to do things without some logical rational behind it because you want them to behave the way you desire without question works perfectly all the time.

  • wallie79r

    I worked at a BSA camp for five summers; they were the best summers of my life so far and my atheism never once caused an issue. I didn’t exactly put it on parade, but I never hid it either and outright asked my boss if he was okay with it before I was hired. While there, I met several other non-theistic staffers, campers, and adult leaders, all of whom were varying degrees of open about it. I had several very enjoyable, real debates about philosophy/theology with a few of my coworkers, which never turned acrimonious, though I have no doubt that they would have if I’d been foolish enough to raise those topics with certain people. I was honestly shocked to see the toxic rage that this membership controversy is inspiring in some of my former coworkers; I’ve lost a lot of friends the last few months. Despite all that, though, I know for a fact that I helped make a positive difference in the lives of some of my campers, and I still believe that BSA is an exceptional organization, despite its backward membership policies.

    • Rationalist1

      I’ve had the same experience in Scouts Canada. I would never push my lack of faith on the Scouts and I do not disparage any one else’s religions and have on more than one occasion strongly rebuked other Scouts for disparaging a Scout who was a vegetarian or kept Kosher.


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