Christian Apologist: ‘If God Does Not Exist, There Will Never Be a Consistent Outcome to Any Scientific Experiment’

Christian Apologist Todd Friel (who’s worked with Kirk Cameron and Ray Comfort) has a new video series out teaching Christians how to respond to “atheist assaults” on their faith (a.k.a. when atheists use logic).

My favorite screenshot from that trailer has to be this one:

Guess which one’s the Christian and which one’s the atheist.

(via God Discussion)

About Hemant Mehta

Hemant Mehta is the editor of Friendly Atheist, appears on the Atheist Voice channel on YouTube, and co-hosts the uniquely-named Friendly Atheist Podcast. You can read much more about him here.

  • randomfactor

    On the contrary. If gods do exist, every formula ever written has to be redone. “E=MC^2 unless god’s having a bad day…”

  • L.Long

    “without gawd there can be now consistent science out come.”
    W-T-F!!! is this BS???
    The very definition of MIRACLE is the violation of science to produce an effect by the supernatural (insert desired being).
    In fact the way to prove that gawd exists is to get a miracle to happen that can be observed and shown to violate the laws of science.
    The fact that the rules of science have never been shown to really be violated has shown that miracles do not happen.

    • L.Long

      Sorry that should be…”without gawd there can be NO consistent science out come.”

  • fsm

    ‘If God Does Not Exist, There Will Never Be a Consistent Outcome to Any Scientific Experiment’

    –citation needed

    • baal

      If Jesus glue didn’t hold atoms together, they’d all fall apart.

      If God took his hand off the earth, we’d all fly into space.

      I though “presuppositionalist” was a slur until I found out that they embrace that label without irony (not that fundamentalists know what irony is).

      • Drew M.

        The term, “Jesus glue,” frightens me for some reason.

        • nullgod

          They use a lot of it in the vatican. :-D

    • Pepe

      You know they’re just gonna spew out more bible verses. Why bother?

  • Gregory Shefler

    What is up with the image of the guy with the rifle and the “defend your faith” text?

    • Regina Carol Moore

      I noticed it too and quite frankly, it scared the crap outta me.

    • Gus Snarp

      I’m not sure if he’s defending his faith or if he’s the atheist assaulting it. Mainly because my brain was saying “what’s with the guy with the assault rifle?” just as the video said “atheist assaults”.

      • Charles Raymond Miller

        Deliberate ambiguity?

    • Charles Raymond Miller

      A campus minister here in the south started posting pictures of himself using assault weapons awhile back, apparently in response to having looked foolish in exchanges with atheists.

      Is it surprising that Real Christians(tm) use violent imagery?

  • dats3

    If God Does Not Exist, There Will Never Be a Consistent Outcome to Any Scientific Experiment’…. Wonder how you can scientifically test that statement?

    • sara

      The logic works perfectly well if you presuppose the existence of god, especially a god that is trying to trick you into believing the world works naturally.

    • randomfactor

      If god DOES exist, how does he explain Godel’s Incompleteness Theorem?

    • trj

      When was the last time you heard an apologist express interest in testing his own claims in any way?

  • RickF

    Without God there would be hucksters trying to peddle series or books filled with unscientific, unfounded drible to the gullible masses… oh, wait…

    • sara

      If there is no god then you wouldn’t be sending me your money. You want to prove there’s a god, right?

  • curtcameron

    For everyone who has not seen this kind of thing before, it’s common with Christian presuppositionalist apologetics. They pre-suppose that their God exists and Christianity is true, and given that, the athiests can’t even use logic and reason without granting that the very logic and reasoning they’re using are possible only because their God exists. Athiests actually know their God exists (it says so in the Bible!) but are in denial.

    • Art_Vandelay

      Yup. This guy actually interviewed Hitchens a few years ago and instead of just asking him questions, he made him play a game show called “What If” where Hitchens is basically required to pre-suppose the existence of the the Christian God as his creator. It didn’t go so well for him…

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fG2ffBV4VbE

      • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

        Thanks, I’d never heard this one!

      • Gus Snarp

        Wow, what an asshole. I wonder if he’s that big a prick in person and whether anyone is willing to spend any time around him (Friel, not Hitchens who sounds entirely reasonable, thoughtful, and pleasant in this clip).

        • LesterBallard

          Friel is a asswipe.

        • http://springygoddess.blogspot.com/ Astreja

          Gus, I read your second sentence as “I wonder if he’s that big a prick in prison.” :-D

          I’m pretty sure My eyes are just tired from a long Monday at the office (Typing mass quantities of medical reports will do that to you), but stranger things have happened when apologists played at being scientists.

          • CottonBlimp

            Weirdly, my eyes made the same mistake.

          • Gus Snarp

            Well, there’s no evidence that Friel has committed any crimes, other than those against reason and logic, but with his sort, it’s usually only a matter of time before he’s caught doing something awful….

      • Jordan Sugarman

        Whenever I listen to this, I am reminded of my favorite quote from humorist Damon Wayans: “Homey don’t play that.”

      • Octoberfurst

        Friel got his butt handed to him by Hitchens! I admire the fact that Hitchens showed a lot of patience with Friel’s moronic “What if?” game. (I could not have been so polite answering such insipid questions.)

      • http://nomadwarriormonk.blogspot.com/ Cyrus Palmer

        That did not go well for him. And yet he acts like it did? He’s delusional as hell.

        • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

          He thinks he pulled a check-mate on the last move. I kind of wish Hitchens had answered the exact question, but I don’t think he cared. What Friel asked was if the reason Hitchens railed against God was because Hitchens didn’t want to be accountable to his creator. While strictly true, I think a response that would not have left Friel smirking would have been “No, I feel no need to be accountable to something that doesn’t exist. I prefer to be accountable to my fellow human beings”.

          Friel wanted to paint Hitchens as a “fuck you all I got mine anarchist”, not a secular humanist.

        • Gus Snarp

          Sadly, so are his listeners, so in their minds he won as well. As long as he stays glib and condescending, he wins. Of course, there may have been a few of his listeners who aren’t entirely on board with his program, who are having doubts already, who heard this and thought, you know, this Hitchens guy makes some good points, and Friel just evades them, maybe I should read his book…..

          I also think Hitch missed a few shots that, just based on his book, he should have had better answers for. But that’s easy to say from the comfort of my keyboard.

      • sam

        Can anyone make out what the douchebag says at 11:51-11:52? It almost sounds like a Hebrew curse.

        Hitchens is almost finished with him & getting bored, like a cat playing with a dead mouse, and the douchebag is at his most exasperated & utters something under his breath.
        Any guesses?

        • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

          Sounds to me like Satan was speaking through him.

    • RobMcCune

      It amounts to radical skepticism and nihilism about everything except christianity. They use it to show they are willing to defy any amount of facts and logic rather than lose or compromise to an athiest.

  • cryofly

    “Guess which one’s the Christian and which one’s the atheist.”

    —the guy in the jail shirt?

    • WallofSleep

      Don’t be silly, there are almost no atheists in jail.

  • Gus Snarp

    So someone’s repackaging the same tired old apologetics yet again and they don’t even have the decency to offer it for free? I guess it makes sense if your target market is evangelical Christians to assume they’re gullible, but gullible enough to pay money for this? I wonder if any of them will be smart enough to figure out after they pay for it and watch it that there’s nothing in there that’s the least bit new or different from what’s all over the internet already.

  • Justin Miyundees

    Now that’s a poe! Hilarious! “Wretched” even!

  • http://friendlyatheist.com Richard Wade

    The existence of apologists casts doubt on the existence of gods. If God existed, there would be no need for apologists.

    Nobody spends any time offering arguments for the existence of Pike’s Peak. There’s no need, because there’s so much evidence for its existence. There’s a mountain of evidence. Yet Pike’s Peak is a tiny, insignificant speck compared to the claim of an almighty, all-knowing being that created, contains, pervades, and controls the whole universe. For that gigantic claim, all we get are arguments.

    And lame ones at that.

    • Hat Stealer

      You clearly are not familiar with my series of dissertations, Proofs for The Existence of Pike’s Peak: an Exhaustive and Comprehensive Review

      • C.L. Honeycutt

        Are you a Pike’s Peak Presuppositionalist?

        • Hat Stealer

          I think of myself more as a Pike’s Peak truther. While the other sheeple may blindly accept the ‘official’ version of Pike’s Peak’s existance, I will remain forever vigalent so as to uncover the true story that They don’t want us to know.

  • Filbert

    I feel sorry for the poor suckers this guy’s making money off of.

    They could buy a popular science book with those funds and actually learn something.

    • RobMcCune

      Or they could watch the same crap from dozens of apologists on youtube for free.

    • Matthew Baker

      At $15 with the production cost of less than a dollar per dvd, using a recording of lectures that people most likely paid to sit though and if they kept the dvd graphics in house using free clip art and fonts most of that $15 should be pure profit.

      • The Captain

        Actually you’d be surprised. Unless he did the entire thing himself he needed to pay for at least one camera guy and post production team (at least an editor/grfx guy, could be one or two people) and music licenses. The production looks clean so I’d say he did use professionals so he’s probably in the hole a few thousand to start with (not including DVD authoring)

        • Matthew Baker

          Its still a sweet racket for turning out ‘resources’ by rehashing the same old tired already refuted arguments. I guess it all depends on one’s willingness to lie to maintain the Truth.

      • Matthew Baker
  • Andrew L

    Oh my God (figure of speech), my sides hurt. Should we buy you a set to review, Hemant?

  • watcher_b

    You too can share the gospel of Christ’s unconditional love and we can help you for the low low cost of only $14.99!

    (results may vary. conversion not guaranteed. see store for details)

    • Gus Snarp

      And remember, your friends and family are all going to hell if you don’t convert them. Do you really want to be responsible for all those people going to hell because you wouldn’t cough up a measly $14.99?

      Man, what a racket!

  • islandbrewer

    … (who’s worked with Kirk Cameron and Ray Comfort) …

    Yeah, I didn’t need to read beyond that.

  • Fred

    In that screenshot one looks like a naive nincompoop the other looks like someone with wisdom and experience. Gee I wonder which one is supposed to be the Christian?

  • baal

    I am the wretched. (It’s actually been another nym i’ve used “TheWretched” – It seems that I bother some folks).

  • JA

    Who else is surprised that comments for the video are disabled?

  • Roxie Deaton

    Is this free? If so, I want a copy. If not, I guess we know what their motivation is.

  • TnkAgn

    As The Onion once posited,” Evangelical scientists refute gravity with new ‘Intelligent Falling” theory:”

    http://www.theonion.com/articles/evangelical-scientists-refute-gravity-with-new-int,1778/

  • TnkAgn

    Trouble is, the Christian god has been anything but consistent. Raising up the righteous, or smiting the evil? Not-so-much. And where should we find consistency in a god who is by turns, loving…and vengeful? I think Dawkins once described the Christian god as, “A psychotic teenager.” Read the papers on any given morning, and it sounds about right. How can such a deity be responsible for the relative consistency we see in nature?

  • Baby_Raptor

    “Throw enough shit at the wall, something’ll stick.” ~Michael Jones

    That’s what this guy is doing. They’re just throwing words together in a way that (to them) sounds smart and important and hoping it’ll con people.

  • DougI

    Friel rounds out the Trinity of Stupidity coming from that clan of morons at “Way of the Master”. Friel might earn top awards for idiocy with his foolishness being aided by that cartoon voice of his.

  • indorri

    And once again, it’s the Thomist, the one who can never rely on anything to actually follow any particular pattern because of miracles, who claim that the absence of something that can scupper the laws of physics at any time means the world wouldn’t follow particular laws…

    By Uwf, I really should just ignore presuppositionalists.

    • phantomreader42

      When I encounter presuppositionalists, I announce that all presuppositionalists are child-molesting serial killers, and note that in accordance with presuppositionalist logic I am not in any way obligated to offer a speck of evidence in support of that claim, it’s just magically true because I say so.

  • David Mock

    Todd Friel is a nutbag from Way of the Master, along with Kirk Cameron and Ray Comfort. I don’t listen to anything that comes out of their mouths.

  • CorneliusVanShill

    All, as has already been mentioned, this is Presuppositional Apologetics. God is presumed, and then they work, backwards. When I was a believer, I used to absolutely love its bulldog, which is the late Greg Bahnsen. The best responses to this truly nonsensical “argument” come from TheoreticalBullshit and c0nc0rdance on YouTube.

    TheoreticalBullshit:
    http://youtu.be/D8dePAhDMh4

    c0nc0rdance:
    http://youtu.be/8QMtj0vXWAc

    Bahnsen died in ’94, but the apologists seem to be bringing this doozy of an “answer” back with a vengeance. Presuppositionalism, which, conveniently, doesn’t require any tangible evidence, really shouldn’t even make it out of the gate.

    Oh, and its pat answer to “How can you prove that god exists?” is: “…from the impossibility of the contrary.”

    If you’re wanting to refute the latest argument from theists, you’d be well-served to learn more about this one, as it appears to be their last stand. I’m truly embarrassed that I ever fell for this stupid argument.

    • Gus Snarp

      Funny, the TheoreticalBullshit video is a response to an argument from Matt Slick, the same homophobe from the Daily Show video earlier.

      • CorneliusVanShill

        Yeah, after seeing the Daily Show feature, Slick came across as even more of an idiot than before. He’s a total Bahnsen ripoff, as some of his wording in his debates mirrors that of Greg’s, though Greg was actually well-schooled in debating. Now that I think about it, it disgusts me that people like WLC/Bahnsen get doctored from accredited universities for no other reason than to mock scientific language in an effort to give credence to their own particular flavor of dogma.

        • CorneliusVanShill

          Harris makes a similar point in LTACN.

  • Andrew

    I like how the cover breaks up the word atheism as ath / eism as to detract from the root words and basic definition of the term.

  • http://cranialhyperossification.blogspot.com GDad

    I think that thing in the older cartoon fellow’s mouth is supposed to be a cigar, but it looks like a slug.

    • glebealyth

      So the older guy must be the xian, then. ;o)

  • observer

    “Be ready to evangelize and ready your faith.”
    *Shows pictures of soldiers*

    Anyone find that a little creepy?

  • Gerry

    Jeez does that Hitchens thing really go on for 15 minutes?? I bailed after the second question.

  • Mark W.

    Wretched Worldview…pretty much sums this guy up.

  • http://www.miketheinfidel.com/ MikeTheInfidel

    Gotta love the “DEFEND YOUR FAITH” graphic at the beginning, with a guy aiming a rifle.

  • Jitterbits

    “Wretched Worldview”? And they daresay that it’s the atheists who are so disrespectful? I can only imagine the furor that would result from an atheist organization making a video and website that referred to Christianity as that.


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