Christian Pastor: ‘I Have Never Met Anyone Who is Actually Happy About Having Sex Before They Were Married’

Aaron Buer is a pastor at Ada Bible Church in Grand Rapids, Michigan, and he’s made up some very important facts about sex (emphases his):

God designed sex. Whoa…that’s a weird thought. But, it’s a true. Sinful humans didn’t invent sex. Sex isn’t dirty or gross. It’s good and beautiful. In fact, sex is beautiful because it was God who invented it and gave it to us as a gift.

With all that said, sex is also incredibly dangerous because God designed it for a specific context. According to the biblical account, sex is for marriage and nowhere else. And, the biblical writers gave us a bazillion warnings about misusing sex.

Why? Because God designed sex as a way to forever cement two people together. Sex literally and symbolically unites two people — physically, emotionally and spiritually. There is no going back on the union either. “Just kidding” or “oops” doesn’t do anything to erase the connection.

I have also seen evidence of this reality in the people around me. I have never met anyone who is actually happy about having sex before they were married. All I’ve ever seen and heard is massive regret.

For some reason, I’m thinking he needs to hear from some of you who lost your virginity before marriage and have no regrets whatsoever… maybe we can break through this bubble of his that’s apparently impermeable to science and dissenting voices. (Though, in Buer’s case, permeating his bubble may require an eternal union of some sort…)

Good luck getting through to him, too. When one commenter suggested there were biological reasons for sex, Buer response was:

Well, since neither one of us was there for the origin of sex, I guess we’ll just have to disagree.

Right. The “origin of sex.” Which I assume happened sometime in the Garden of Eden as God played voyeur.

***Update***: To no one’s surprise, when faced with evidence that plenty of people don’t regret having premarital sex, Buer turned off his comment thread and deleted the ones that contradicted his beliefs. Because that’s what Jesus would’ve done.

Looks like you can still let him know what you think at @aaron_buer, though.

About Hemant Mehta

Hemant Mehta is the editor of Friendly Atheist, appears on the Atheist Voice channel on YouTube, and co-hosts the uniquely-named Friendly Atheist Podcast. You can read much more about him here.

  • Martin Wagner

    Looks like he’s already deleting comments that don’t support his self-denial narrative.

    • eric

      Next time he posts, be sure to comment “Pastor Buer, when you delete someone’s comment about being happy with premarital sex, does that count as meeting them?”

  • baal

    My wife and I lived in sin, cohabited, and had sex for several years before we were ready to marry. It’s been 19 years and while it had ups and downs, none of those were due to the premarital sex.

    “God designed sex. Whoa…that’s a weird thought. But, it’s a true.”
    Then god designed LGBT folks and kinksters…unless he made a flawed design or somesuch (in which case why call him god?).

    • kofer22

      “unless he made a flawed design or somesuch (in which case why call him god?).”
      A-to give us tests through which we may earn reward in the world to come

      • baal

        “A-to give us tests through which”
        I call that being a jerk or at least controlling.

        Given how hard it is for people to not express their sexuality, it’s pretty monstrous to put huge burdens on people just to see if they can suffer their entire lives. Really, this is one big reason why I dislike religion.

        The proper concern is for human to live their lives in ways that are the least harmful to themselves and others. Being gay is not inherently harmful and neither is gay behavior.

    • tsara

      The sadists are made in God’s image, the masochists are made in Jesus’s image, and the LGBT people are made because God’s a sadist (and likes watching them torture themselves and get tortured in Hell) and Jesus is a masochist (who gets to beat Himself up about it).
      Of course, they’re the same being, just with multiple personalities.

      • baal

        “Of course, they’re the same being, just with multiple personalities”
        I might have to become a christian. I think I’ve meet this person.

      • islandbrewer

        You forgot the furries.

        • Tainda

          That’s satan because I am TERRIFIED of people in costumes.

          My kink only goes so far!

          • http://itsmyworldcanthasnotyours.blogspot.com/ wmdkitty

            My ears scare you? *sad kitty*

            • Tainda

              Awww, don’t be a sad kitty! If I can’t see someone’s face, it just freaks me out lol I work in a children’s hospital and we get a LOT of characters that come out and I almost pee my pants when I come around a corner and one of them is there lol Don’t even get me started on Ronald McDonald!

              • http://itsmyworldcanthasnotyours.blogspot.com/ wmdkitty

                Okay. That makes sense.

        • tsara

          Demons, obviously.

        • C.L. Honeycutt

          We shall inherit the Earth.

  • flyb

    I was discussing my bird’s uropygial gland the other night with a Christian friend, explaining how it is used to help keep feathers maintained. She (my friend) suddenly had this starry, far away look of wonder in her eyes and said, “Wow! God thinks of everything!” I was enjoying a pretty good beer at the time so I chose to just ignore the comment. But I also realized that no matter what I said, it would not have made any difference.

    • wabney

      I just… wow. So… if someone actually believes in the silly creation myth, and how perfect/all knowing/yadayadayada, why on earth would it be a surprise (or something to be amazed at)? Good on you for being able to hold your tongue… I probably wouldn’t have been able to, friend or not.

      • flyb

        It wasn’t easy, for sure. But it’s stored in my data banks for future use. ;)

    • David McNerney

      Why didn’t God just make the feathers out of Teflon?

      Or did DuPont already have it patented at that stage?

      • flyb

        Indeed. It’s like those “miracles” where only a few people die in a horrible accident, yet many others live. Where was the miracle in not allowing it to happen in the first place?

        • Kodie

          It’s always a miracle when nobody dies, only one person died, only a few people died, about half died, or almost everybody died. It’s a miracle it wasn’t much worse, but it’s also a miracle it’s just about as bad as it can be as long as even one person survived.

          • 3lemenope

            If nothing bad happened, how can we know there was a miracle?! :)

            • Kodie

              It was a really close call.

              • Vanadise

                How bad does it have to be to not be a miracle? Do you have to have everybody die? This seems like a really low bar for a “miracle.” I mean, I somehow manage to not kill people on a daily basis.

                • 3lemenope

                  3,300 people died…but some girders stayed standing in the shape of a cross, so miracle!

                  No, I don’t think there is a “too horrible to have been touched by a miracle” line, really, anywhere for folks who are looking for one.

                • Kodie

                  It’s just a tragedy when everybody dies. It’s a simultaneous tragedy/miracle when people die and people survive. If someone survives a tragic event, god was looking after just the one person, and should be praised, while we’re also sad about the people who were crushed to death or burned or whatever, that one person lets us know that god is working in our lives. Cold statistics doesn’t care if that person lived, so would have just let him die also. God cares, so allowing a survivor is god and not statistics or coincidence or even preparedness.

                  In the cases where nobody dies, god was looking out for the group. For example, a tree falls on some picnic tables at a sleepaway camp (in the US, a sleepaway camp is for parents to send their children away for a few weeks on summer vacation to do crafts and nature hikes and shit like that) during the winter – not a miracle. Ex.2. A tree falls on some picnic tables at a sleepaway camp in mid-summer while camp is in session during the night – not a miracle. Ex.3. A tree falls on some picnic tables at a sleepaway camp 5 minutes after the campers eating lunch were sent to their next activity – a miracle.

                  Edit: Ex.4. If a tree falls on some picnic tables during lunchtime at a sleepaway camp while one kid was excused to go to the bathroom – a miracle. Ex. 5. If a tree falls on some picnic tables during lunchtime at a sleepaway camp and one kid felt sick the day before and the medic determined her parents should pick her up, so she wasn’t there at the time everyone else was crushed – a miracle. Ex. 6. If the tree fell on some picnic tables at sleepaway camp and killed all the lunching campers but on the other side of where the tree stood, another group of campers was hiking – a miracle.

                • Vanadise

                  You’ve got a rather dour vision of statistics. Statistics don’t kill or save anybody, they just record what happened. Honestly, it sounds like God is kind of a jerk if he’ll kill a bunch of people and let a few live just to remind us that he’s still around.

                  I’m still a little fuzzy on how bad a situation has to be for it to be a miracle, though. Let’s say that I’m standing on the side of a road with another person and a car swerves off the side of the road and hits him but just barely misses me. That’s a miracle, right? What if the other guy isn’t there, so the car just barely misses me? That seems a little miraculous. I’m guessing that it’s not a miracle if it just swerves a little but doesn’t really come close to me, though. Is there a minimum distance for the miracle designation?

                • Kodie

                  As far as I’ve been able to determine, statistics go along with coincidence. A thing happens, you’re on the side of the road. Another thing happens, a car swerves. Cars swerve sometimes, and people are by the side of the road sometimes. Accidents happen by coincidence – a car swerves where a person is standing and hits them. If you were standing by the side of the road an hour before a car swerved on that exact spot, or a car happened to swerve half a mile before it got to where you are standing, is just 2 separate incidences. If a car swerved 2 feet before where you were standing and straightened out just in time, your sense of “miracle” has to do with the concurrence of two separate incidences and the proximity in which it could have been a total disaster, i.e. you were crashed into and died. On another hand, you could actually be crashed into and your friend dies but you were not hit, or he dies instantly and you are taken into the hospital where it is touch-and-go, but you ultimately pull through – also a miracle. It’s your perception of how close a call to your demise, and how you cope with your injuries. “Life” seems to be the goal here – if god hurdles a car swerving in your direction and almost kills you but lets you live, paralyzed, let’s say, that’s a miracle. Even if your friend died and you didn’t, in your mind, you were hit with the same disaster and you had a drastically different outcome – you were allowed to live, impaired. It doesn’t take into account that your friend took the brunt of the hit or was thrown to the ground and sustained a head injury, while you had the wind knocked out of you and broke your leg, depending on where you stood, all by chance.

                  Miracles don’t take into account that your friend might have been older than you and less survivable by similar injuries or that, let’s say for example, the windshield wipers detached (you were not crashed into) and one went straight through your friend’s heart, and the other went straight through next to your heart, less than an inch clearance. It could have been the other way around. It could have been that both of you were both a foot away from where you were standing and they both missed.

                  I think it is only a matter of personal perception. If the news reports a tragic fatal event, such as the Asian airplane that just crashed in San Francisco – it will balance this with highlights of survivor stories. They can talk about what they saw, and often in terms of comparing their lot to what happened to someone else. This cheers people up, the bravery and gratitude. I read a recent article that these reports downplayed the reactions of the flight attendants – who are well-trained in emergency situations and not just bringing drinks and towels – and mostly on the “miracle” that more people didn’t die. It should have killed everyone on that plane? If not for the flight attendants, it might have. When the public digests a plane crash on the news, we expect near-100% fatalities if not 100%, and mistakes were made, but it was framed, in shorthand, as a miracle that almost everyone survived rather than give credit to the flight attendants for doing their job, which is, if possible, to keep everyone on flight from dying in an emergency.

                  Last year, a local woman (I live in Boston) had a zipline accident in South America, in which she was not, as far as I know, injured except for cuts; however, she contracted a flesh-eating bacteria from her cuts and all 4 of her limbs had to be amputated. To her, this is a miracle. She got the message from god to just make peace with losing her limbs, and she knew she would be ok. Living is victory, and that victory over nature’s demons, like flesh-eating bacteria, is a miracle.

                  I once got into a little argument/discussion with someone and why did they believe in god and one of their personal examples that covers this topic is a ladder almost fell on her once. A ladder she was near fell and it was just a close call. That’s one of the major reasons she thinks god is watching out for her and spared her being hit by a ladder, because a ladder fell and she was a few steps away from it either on the approach or having just passed by it. It doesn’t seem to take a lot. When a lot of people die at one time, like 9/11, of course we are sad and vengeful of the terrorists, and we try to avoid second-guessing the choices made to send emergency responders up even though they were going to die and there was no way to put out the massive fire, we heartfully remember those we lost, while highlighting the people who were quick enough to get down all those stairs – it’s a lot of stairs. Like 3lemenope said, those survivors are symbolized to the public by a beam and girder shaped like the Christian cross. It’s a sign. It’s going in a museum. It helps people pretend that god took care of those lost while helping other people get out in the nick of time and live.

                  I don’t have a dour view of statistics, I don’t think. If 5% of people survive a certain type of cancer, that is not a miracle if you happen to have that type of cancer and happen to land within that 5%. It is like that car swerving at you and your friend – it might have swerved elsewhere or at a time you weren’t standing there, i.e. you don’t get cancer, or it might have missed you by inches and you are in the 5%. Actuarial tables will tell you how likely you are to die from a car accident. That’s because a certain number of people get hit by cars and don’t die, and it’s not a miracle if you fall into the statistical field of not dying from a car hitting you, should a car hit you. A car still probably won’t hit you at all and something else will kill you. Heart disease is pretty common. A brick falling off a building and hitting you on the head is less common, but could still be fatal. If some fatality has a 1% chance of happening, you could be one of 70 million people that die from it.

                • ~SoACTing

                  A Christian’s view on miracles seems to almost turn “survivors guilt” into a divine blessing. Kind of sick if you ask me.

                  ~ SoACTing

                • Mogg

                  Ex. 7: a tree falls on picnic tables at a sleepaway camp, killing everyone: an Act Of God.

                  Truefacts: there used to be a plaque commemorating such an Act Of God at a place I used to go hiking a fair bit. It even called it an Act Of God, and who am I to argue? Maybe the devastating bushfire which melted the plaque, destroyed the nearby town and killed dozens of people a few years ago was an argument, though.

                • Lucreza Borgia

                  Did you read about the little girl killed by a cross in a cemetery?

                • http://itsmyworldcanthasnotyours.blogspot.com/ wmdkitty

                  And then there’s this family that is suing after their kid basically climbed on (and knocked over) an old headstone and squished himself.

                  Sucks, but the kid shouldn’t have been playing near an obviously-deteriorating tombstone.

                • Mogg

                  No. The only thing I can think of to say to that is “poor girl – and her family”. :-(

                • Lucreza Borgia
          • ~SoACTing

            It’s why I propose a new definition of the word miracle.

            Miracle – rationalizations a Christian’s mind makes up when faced with a truth that it can’t face; not a proof of divine providence.

            My new definition seems to cover all of your examples :-)

            ~ SoACTing

    • islandbrewer

      You should have pointed out that “god” forgot to give the uropygial gland to cormorants (that’s why you always see them perched near water with their wings outstretched drying them).

  • Manduca

    I just left him a message, introducing myself as someone who was happy about having sex before marriage.

    I took a screenshot, in case it gets deleted.

    • http://www.miketheinfidel.com/ MikeTheInfidel

      Are you “Seem”? If so, you linked to a Creationist website.

    • John Alexander Harman

      I like your username; are you by any chance a fellow entomologist? (For any non-entomologists reading this: Manduca is a genus of large moths; the adults are commonly known as hawkmoths, and the caterpillars as hornworms. They’re visually striking insects at any life stage, but some of them can be very destructive pests of various crops in the nightshade family, e.g. tomatoes, potatoes, eggplants, peppers, and tobacco.)

  • http://www.holytape.etsy.com Holytape

    As a conservationist and as a conservative Christian, I have to agree with Pastor Buer. That is why I am starting a non-profit organization to send priests into the wilderness, to marry all of the animals. So that they can have the God ordained sex they need to reproduce. It will be a hard battle, for example in the field next to me, I have to marry 2621 grasshopper couples, and 1400 parasitic wasps. And don’t even get me started on how I am going to marry the grass to each other. It’s a lot of work, but if we don’t do this, all the animals and plants will go extinct.

    • Carlos Ribeiro Da Fonseca

      Or worse, they’ll go to hell. And no one wants that, right?

      • 3lemenope

        Pshaw. All wasps go to arthropod heaven.

        • islandbrewer

          Parasitic wasps go to other animals’ heavens, I think.

          • Art_Vandelay

            Imagine being a tarantula who has to die from one of those wasps that plant their eggs inside your head so that their babies can feed off of your insides until you die, only to get to tarantula heaven to find that it’s full of tarantula wasps?

            • 3lemenope

              And the tarantula shall lay down with the wasp…

            • Kodie

              Strangely, tarantula heaven is on the same site as human hell.

              • Art_Vandelay

                Ew…that almost makes me want to convert.

          • chuckb

            Arthropod heaven is boring, anyway. source: Arthropod Bible

    • flyb

      At first, I was like, “Whoa!” Then I was like, “Ahhhh!”

    • max

      So you comparing us to animals, you’re only proving his point.

      • 3lemenope

        Uh, we are animals.

        • Tainda

          Beat me to it

        • islandbrewer

          I think I’m actually a fungus, now.

          • Spuddie

            After I touched that goo from the meteor I think I am some kind of flowing plant by now.

            • C.L. Honeycutt

              Creepshow? Oh I am impressed, my good Japanese monster.

      • Kodie

        You really don’t get it. It’s staring you in the face, but you ignore it.

      • Baby_Raptor

        By making a sarcastic comment about marrying animals, he proves that Mr. Pastor never met someone happy about having premarital sex?

        Could you please explain how that makes an ounce of sense? To someone who doesn’t desperately need to believe this dude’s lie, I mean.

        <– Happily not a virgin before marriage.

        • Pattrsn

          Holytape’s making fun of the claim that the c-god created sex “for marriage and nowhere else”.

          • Baby_Raptor

            Oh, I followed Holy’s comment; Max’s is the one I’m questioning. I don’t understand how he got from point A to point B there.

            • Pattrsn

              Sorry, I blame my confusion on my cracked iphone screen.

      • http://www.holytape.etsy.com Holytape

        Most people are animals; a few are vegetables.

        • Mogg

          And some of them are as dumb as a rock.

    • JackieTrinity

      “I am not an ANIMAL!”

      Aahahahaha!

    • islandbrewer

      Hey, does that mean Bonobos are an argument for the validity of group marriages?

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonobo#Sexual_social_behavior

    • Spuddie

      Those randy protozoa will keep you busy for the rest of your life.

      • Tainda

        I’ve been thinking about this and Randy Protozoa would be a great band name

        • Spuddie

          I have too many great band names and no great band to give them to.

          • Tainda

            lol I have that same problem

    • John Alexander Harman

      Hate to tell you this, but you’ve probably underestimated the grasshopper and parasitic wasp populations of your field by at least an order of magnitude.

  • Jason Sullivan

    He must be doing it wrong

  • Art_Vandelay

    I have never met anyone who is actually happy about having sex before they were married. All I’ve ever seen and heard is massive regret.

    Most people I’ve met only regret not having more sex before they got married.

    • saved_myself

      As someone who saved their virginity for marriage, this is one of the biggest regrets of my life. It truly does bother me, almost every single day of my life. I always wonder what I missed out on during my most formative sexual years.

      • David Mock

        Don’t worry it’s a lot of awkwardness and practice.

        • Raising_Rlyeh

          practice makes perfect. :P

      • Jonni

        me too. Very unhealthy way to start a marriage.

    • islandbrewer

      *raises hand *

      Totally! Back when I was young and single and good looking, I really wished I took more advantage of all the women who were willing to have sex with me. I entirely regret being so awkward and shy.

      • Art_Vandelay

        Exactly. In college, one of my biggest fears was being perceived by girls as some superficial, shallow, sex-starved, douchebag because I couldn’t stand those guys. I think I had more respect for girls than a lot of them had for themselves. As a result, a girl would pretty much have to flat-out tell me she was interested in having sex before I even thought about making a move. When I think back to certain moments now when it seems so obvious what was going on…I guarantee there are at least ten girls who must think I’m gay.

        • saved_myself

          “In college, one of my biggest fears was being perceived by girls as some
          superficial, shallow, sex-starved, douchebag because I couldn’t stand
          those guys. I think I had more respect for girls than a lot of them had
          for themselves. As a result, a girl would pretty much have to flat-out
          tell me she was interested in having sex before I even thought about
          making a move.”

          It’s like I’m looking in a mirror.

    • Tofu

      If someone’s laying on their deathbed wishing they’d gotten laid more, I’m gonna go out on a limb and say they didn’t live a very rich life.

  • Manduca

    My comment, and Martin Wagner’s response to it were deleted within about a minute.

    • wabney

      Shocking I tell you. Just…. shocking. *smh*

      • JackieTrinity

        I’m stunned. :)

  • Itsrealfunnythat

    I also wish I’d had more sex, maybe Im terrible but i wanted to try all the different flavors…

    • http://parkandbark.wordpress.com/ Houndentenor

      How else could you find out what you liked?

      • C.L. Honeycutt

        My biggest regret will always be that I didn’t have any way to record a conversation I overheard in a breakroom in college. Two nurses-to-be were discussing how they thought homosexuality was fake. I managed to keep a straight face, as did the other guy in the room reading, but we both completely lost it when one said, “Well I think all lesbians must have slept with men. Otherwise how would they know they didn’t like it?”

        That genius was Kendall, whom I remember better as TMI Girl, because within three minutes of us meeting at a lunch table, she had explained to me how she couldn’t have sex with her boyfriend because she had a, quote, “contagious skin disease.”

      • baal

        I’ve been surprised at what I like. I fully recommend trying nearly everything at least once.

        • 3lemenope

          Except for strychnine. Don’t try strychnine.

    • Tainda

      All 31!

      • Spuddie

        “As I suspected, 32 flavors”
        -The Question

  • Janice Clanfield

    What a stupid, stupid man.

  • Levon Mkrtchyan

    He just closed the comments section on that article. Now we know how he has avoided meeting any people who are happy about having had sex before marriage – selective listening.

    • Martin Wagner

      Bravely Brave Sir Aaron, Brave Sir Aaron ran away…

    • John Small Berries

      For what it’s worth, he’s @aaron_buer on Twitter.

  • SeekerLancer

    The only people who regret having sex before marriage are the ones who fell for the emotional blackmailing about purity.

    I honestly don’t disbelieve him when he says he never met anyone who didn’t feel guilty about having sex before marriage because in general the type of people who would talk to a pastor about sex are the type of people who would say that sort of thing. Nobody in his church is going to admit to him that they loved having pre-marital sex.

    And if anyone did, such as the people in the comments section he just closed, he covered his ears and pretended they didn’t exist.

  • Tainda

    I wish I had had sex with someone other than my husband before marriage. After I got divorced I realized how GREAT it can be and now it’s my favorite pastime!

    And that article shot about how she read cosmo so can wow her future husband is like saying “I read how to ride a bike in a book so I’m going to win the Tour de France!”

    • Kodie

      Maybe she practices humping her pillow, being a contortionist, and eating a lot of ice cream cones.

      • Tainda

        HAHAHA Ok, that gave me a visual and I snort laughed

      • KeithCollyer

        At the same time?

        • Tainda

          I would pay to see that!

          • Jason Hinchliffe

            I HAVE paid to see that.

        • Kodie

          Possibly.

          • 3lemenope

            She’s juggling the ice cream cones. Or the pillows.

            • Kodie

              I think it would be really funny if she put on a little Cirque de Soleil acrobatic performance on her wedding night. That might wow her husband.

              • 3lemenope

                I’d be wowed.

              • Spuddie

                I think I would bug out once she asks me to make sure her harnesses are OK.

          • C.L. Honeycutt

            I’ll be in my bunk.

            /Jayne

            • Tainda

              <3 I love that man

    • flyb

      How YOU doin? ;)

    • ToonForever

      Even though I’m with everyone else that Pastor Aaron is a nitwit, I sort of get the postcard – there is plenty that I learned reading for teen pleasure that was helpful when incorporated into the real thing ;)

      • Tainda

        Oh don’t get me wrong, reading things is helpful for ideas but they aren’t going to make you good at it. The first time is always awkward anyway.

        • ToonForever

          True :)

        • islandbrewer

          My first time was with someone who was much more experienced than I, and that made things awesome. I’m actually incredibly grateful that my first time wasn’t with another virgin.

          (And don’t get me started on men with virgin fetishes.)

          • Tainda

            That is true!

            I would never have sex with a virgin lol “Oh but you can train them the way you want” Possibly but there is no substitute for experience

            • tsara

              Plus the idea of ‘training’ people is creepy as fuck.

              • Tainda

                In some ways yes but in other ways no. That’s a different forum discussion entirely though lol

                • tsara

                  Consensually, it’s not a problem. Sexually, I usually see ‘training’ talked about in the context of significant age-gaps and/or with people who are both sexually and emotionally less mature so that there’s a significant (inherent, not voluntary, with the ‘emotionally’ being the more important factor) power imbalance making consent suspect. In those contexts, it is creepy as fuck, and reminiscent of pedophiles ‘grooming’ their victims.

                  For please-FSM-make-it-not-sexual creepiness, see the book entitled To Train Up A Child by Debi and/or Michael Pearl.

                • Tainda

                  I knew what ya meant ;) and yes it is totally creepy!

              • Jason Hinchliffe

                Yeahh yeah, tell that to the circus.

          • KMR

            Depends on the virgin. My first time was with a virgin but he had an active imagination and fed it with lots of written romance and porn. I also loved him and the whole episode still lives as one of my fondest memories even with the collapse of the relationship years later. I can only hope my girls’ first time is with someone as caring and as selfless as he was in the bedroom.

    • JackieTrinity

      How come we don’t hear about how men remain virgins so they can “wow” their brides on their wedding night? Seems like a double standard.

      • Kodie

        Men are practically born thinking they are amazing in bed.

        • baal

          Eh maybe even most men since that’s the cultural message (and that message doesn’t include checking for actual competence). That being said, the various men I’ve been meeting of late are nervous and have anxiety about bed time performance. YMMV.

        • tsara

          I thought it was that guys tend to absorb the message that penis size is the only thing that matters and/or that bothering to learn more about it implies (size) inadequacy and is a sissy, girly thing to do.

        • 100meters

          Kodie, how true…I was in my 40′s before I learned that women needed more foreplay than me standing on the end of the bed, and yelling “Brace yourself!”

          • Matt

            I’m imagining the immediate follow-up would be a Jack Black at the end of Nacho Libre style leap into flawless insertion?

            Fuck, now I have to try it.

            • islandbrewer

              Make sure your partner has health coverage, and a mapquest printout of the quickest route to the emergency room.

          • closetatheist

            I literally choked on a forkful of spaghetti when I read this. It brought tears to my eyes…

        • Tom

          Not how I turned out; but then, I’m the cautious, introspective sort. This lack of (undeserved) confidence did make getting dates difficult; however, it also meant I read up a hell of a lot about how to please my partner in the years before I finally found someone, and when it finally happened she did say I was rather good, for a beginner. I guess Dunning-Kruger applies to sex as much as it does to anything else. But I still wasn’t great; the simple fact is that you just can’t get muscle memory out of books. I think I actually sprained something the first time.

          • Kodie

            I am trying not to generalize all men, I have heard on forums many men who actually get it, care, are considerate. I only know a few men that way and only one of them was amazing. The rest ranged from adequate to terrible, but they all had a big ego about it. As per 3lemenope’s caution to “talk to more people,” well, yeah, how do you find out beforehand if someone is cooperative and thoughtful? I’ve only found the kind who talk to their friends and tell them it’s me, well, guess what. I don’t do “everything” and I can only be as good as they are. I’m responsive and stuff, I’m not a performer, a gymnast, for their pleasure. If I’m not getting what I need, it’s pretty hard to respond with enthusiasm. I don’t even like that this is what they say to their friends – not that we didn’t get along, wanted different things, but to retain their masculinity in their dog group, it’s all about how the sex was bad.

            Now to look to the religious/cultural aspect – at least they think so, women don’t even like sex. How much enthusiasm can someone who is having a terrible time have, and how much blame can such a person take for that experience for the man? You get what you give, at least that’s the kind of compatibility I seek.

            Now I’m blushing too. I don’t like to be that personally revealing.

            • Jason Hinchliffe

              I’m sorry Kodie, but you’re doing a bloody awful job of not generalizing. Your entire post pretty much passes the buck on to the male gender for your sexual experiences being largely adequate or terrible. It takes two to tango, and if things are going poorly, you might want to consider what you are or are not contributing both in dialogue and action.

              • Kodie

                What do you mean by action? Being spanked? Coming in from behind? That doesn’t make me bad at it.

                • Jason Hinchliffe

                  I mean by doing things that please and arouse him as well. Oftentimes, male sexuality is diminished and looked at as simplistic. As long as we have an erection and ejaculate, its assumed we got what we wanted. Its every bit as sexist as any male behaviour. By “action” I mean both words and choices. You claim you want men to be cooperative an thoughtful. Are you being cooperative and thoughtful? It’s a two way street. My point is, if your experiences are less than stellar, you’re probably better off looking at what you can be doing to improve communication with potential partners to make sure that you have expectations that are in line with reality.

                • Kodie

                  Well now you are judging a variety of situations from your armchair. You are automatically taking the men’s side because I said something about them, and I know them and you don’t, and I was there and you weren’t. Perhaps I can give you some phone numbers so you can test them yourself.

                  But you are a man and maybe you think they must have been right instead of selfish and egotistical, which they were. This is why I hate joining in these discussions, but I really don’t appreciate the bitterness that manifests itself in bragging about one’s performance, while diminishing my whole being to mine as a way to save face to their friends. It is a two way street, you’re correct about that.

                • Jason Hinchliffe

                  Clearly saying “its a two way street” is taking the men’s side. Suggesting reflecting on what you can do better is also “taking the men’s side”. Clearly. In the meantime, I’ll go home to my successful marriage. You know, the one I built by focusing on what I can do better rather than focusing on things I didn’t appreciate about my wife.

            • Tainda

              The way to the best sex is communication. If you don’t communicate what you like and don’t like, it won’t be that great.

        • Jason Hinchliffe

          I AM amazing in bed Kodie. Particularly when alone.

      • JET

        A male virgin on his wedding night? All but the first 30 seconds of the evening would be spent with the wife saying “wow… just wow…”

  • Ibis3

    Hmmm. He’s still on twitter.

    • JudgeNot

      The ‘Bride’ may be a virgin, but statistics say 98% sure the ‘groom’ isn’t. And since, according to the bible, the man is the head of the household, shouldn’t HE BE ON TOP, and not the woman?

  • 3lemenope

    “I have never met anyone that [x].”

    “Well, then meet more people.”

  • Milo Boricua

    God invented Porno! Think about it!! And I loveeeeeed sex both BEFORE and AFTER marriage! What a hypocritical Jack-wad!!

  • David McNerney

    “Comments for this thread are now closed.”

    La la la la, I can’t hear you!

  • eric

    Why? Because God designed sex as a way to forever cement two people together.

    Such as Abraham and Sara. Then Abraham and Sara’s servant, Hagar. Then Abraham and Sarah again. Then Abraham and Keturah. And let’s not forget Solomon and wife 1, followed by Solomon and wives 2-700.

    Yes, biblical marriage is all about cementing two people together.

    • 3lemenope

      Two…at a time, mebbe? :)

      • C.L. Honeycutt

        I hear it’s how you handle Klingons.

        • The Other Weirdo

          Klingons are hard to deal with. First, they throw shit at you during courtship. Then, they spend far less time in your bed than you wish. But show them a Starfleet officer and they get kinky.

          • C.L. Honeycutt

            Remind me to in the future either bring up Klingons a lot less often or a lot more often.

            • The Other Weirdo

              Evidence of a misspent youth.

          • Tainda

            And then you have Worf who always had to take the damned vow after he banged someone

      • aaa

        “You – my room, 10:30 tonight. You – 10:45. And bring a friend”

        Sheriff of Nottingham

    • max

      A result of Original sin. As the bible progresses, that is if you read on morality progresses until Christ who enables us to live monogamy in purity.

      • 3lemenope

        So, hold on a sec. It was not possible to live monogamously before Jesus?

      • JackieTrinity

        That would make sense if at any point in the OT Solomon and his multiple wives and concubines were condemned. He is spoken of with admiration and reverence by the Biblical author. At no time do you get the feeling that God did not condone his lifestyle.

        • Jason Hinchliffe

          Of course the guys who wrote the bible revere him. He laid over 700 women. He’s like a Bronze Age Wilt Chamberlain.

        • Mogg

          Well, his many many wives were blamed for bringing in foreign gods and leading him astray from the Israelite god towards the end of his life.

      • Kodie

        You bought the complete package!

      • Pattrsn

        I guess we can expect an updated version that mirrors all the moral progress we’ve made since the NT. You know slavery now being bad, gay marriage, that kind of thing.

      • islandbrewer

        So, you’re saying god’s morality is changing and evolving?

      • C.L. Honeycutt

        If you read the NT, you learn that not getting married is better than getting married, that castrating yourself is better than getting married, that if you hear about Jesus before you are married, you should NOT marry, and that if you are already married when you hear about the Gospel, you shouldn’t have sex because it takes time away from waiting for Jesus to come back any second now. How is this progress?

        • islandbrewer

          I totally want to start a Castrated for Christ movement, right now. As an atheist, I wouldn’t take part, myself.

        • Ender

          Wait, you’re looking to the bible for “progress”?

          Oh, you.

          • C.L. Honeycutt

            Goddamn my optimism, I know. :P

      • Michael W Busch

        No. There is no such thing as original sin (no Adam and Eve, no fall, etc.)

        And morality changes throughout the various texts that got lumped into the various bibles because they were written by different people over hundreds of years and hundreds of kilometers, in very different cultures. The bible is entirely a human creation, and one without good editing.

        • islandbrewer

          Well, I think “Original Sin” got rebranded as just plain “Sin,” and then they changed what the sin was, and people didn’t like it, so god renamed it “New Sin” and brought back “Original Sin” as “Sin Classic.” Then he fired his PR team.

          • Spuddie

            I prefer Sin with Lemon myself and Caffeine Free Diet Sin

          • tsara

            And the Seven Deadly collection was renamed to Cardinal, but now that makes people think of Catholic defenders of child rapists. The new PR team doesn’t like to talk about it.

      • busterggi

        So we should all follow Jesus’ example and heterosexually marry like he did…oops.

        • tsara

          I’m asexual. Does that mean I win?

          • busterggi

            Nope, you lose because you have no desire to fight against. Unless you make yourself miserable you just can’t win in Christianity.

      • Cake

        I can’t wait for Christians take the next logical step along this path of moral progression and reach the purity of marriage without any sex at all.

        • Mogg

          Some of them got there. Take a look at the Shakers.

          • Kodie

            What Shakers?

            • 3lemenope

              Exactly.

              • Mogg

                Snap.

                • Kodie

                  I didn’t hear a snap.

            • Mogg

              Exactly. They died out.

    • baal

      I know we’re focusing on marriage but that sells Solomon a little short. He also had 300 concubines to help fill in the lonely time between the 700 wives.

      • C.L. Honeycutt

        I can never quite decide if the dude more horrifies or impresses me.

        • Artor

          Horrifies and disgusts, definitely. Impress? Not at all.

          • C.L. Honeycutt

            Impresses in a freakshow kind of way. I mean, to keep up with even 1% of said wives and concubines, he’d have to be able to least give Dirk Diggler a run for his money.

            • Artor

              Nah, a man with 700 wives doesn’t “keep up” with them any more than a rancher with 700 head of cattle eats that many burgers himself. Solomon kept wives exactly like a rancher keeps cattle; they exist for his benefit, not theirs, and the number is a sign of his wealth. That’s the disgusting part; the Biblical idea of marriage treats women just like cattle, and that’s not a bit of hyperbole.

              • C.L. Honeycutt

                Oh I didn’t mean he treated them like wives or humans. I just figured he’d be bouncing around in that harem like a human pinball for the booty. But I do take your meaning.

        • islandbrewer

          I’d have to conclude that most of the wives and concubines never saw most of the time, and formed other “social networks” among themselves. You know, as “sisters.”

          *cough* *wink*

          • islandbrewer

            I just got a new idea for my biblical porn genre!

          • C.L. Honeycutt

            I assumed he had a pretty small group of favored wives, but he must have been cycling through at least a decent fraction of them over time. I mean, would he have hundreds and hundreds of wives that he wanted enough to marry, but then slept with like twice and then didn’t see again for quite a few years?

            And OH yes, they had networks.

            • http://gamesgirlsgods.blogspot.com/ Feminerd

              Yeah, he probably did just see some of them once or twice and then never again. He married a lot of them for politics, not love or even lust.

              • C.L. Honeycutt

                Sure, a lot of them, probably most, but, say, 900+?

                Actually I’m starting to think that most of them were taken for reputation purposes.

  • sam

    I’m afraid the birth of sex isn’t as ‘sexy’ as your pervy god myth, Rev. Fuckstain. If memories of high school biology serve, sexual reproduction evolved before single celled yeast. Yeast can asexually bud from themselves, producing clones, but each individual cell possesses either alpha or A mating factor proteins on its plasma membrane. Each A factor binds to a corresponding alpha factor, initiating signal transduction pathways which induce the meiotic chromosomal rearrangements & genetic recombination which make sexual reproduction such a successful strategy to get your genes into the next generation.

    You xians ought to take Paul’s advice, not his concession, and not have sex like him (1 Cor 7). Since your god invented mitosis first, maybe all xians should restrict their reproductive efforts toward budding.

    • 3lemenope

      If they ever figure out the parthenogenesis thing, we’re screwed.

    • Msswearengen

      Schmoo!

  • regexp

    I didn’t bother reading the article but based on the guys picture – yea – I do him.

  • http://parkandbark.wordpress.com/ Houndentenor

    For those of you not raised in a fundamentalist church, let me translate that for you:

    “I don’t know anyone who isn’t too slut-shamed to admit that they enjoyed the sex they had before they were married, at least to me.”

    • JackieTrinity

      That’s exactly what I suspected. Thanks.

    • chuckb

      You mean people don’t admit their love of premarital sex to their pastors??? Shocking, I tell you.

  • Ratsnake

    The comment section is now closed…after one commentor destroyed his argument. Coward.

    • wabney

      To be fair, there was more than one reply and that rocked his sad, sad world too much, so he started deleting them. My guess is too many people were proving him false, so THEN it wasn’t any longer something that could be discussed. Now it’s just a situation where he’s preaching at the readers instead.

  • Taz

    “God designed sex. Whoa…that’s a weird thought.”
    If you come to a conclusion that seems contradictory then perhaps you should question your assumptions.

    • DesertSun59

      Your assertion is that a Bronze Age deity invented sex.

      Sorry, pal.

  • Carlos Ribeiro Da Fonseca

    Well, I for one regret having sex before getting maried.
    I mean, when the guests opened the door… Let’s just say it was a bit embarassing.

    • islandbrewer

      So what you regret is not locking the door?

      • Carlos Ribeiro Da Fonseca

        Yes, and I was going to edit the text to say that but then I got an irresistible attack of acute laziness.

        • islandbrewer

          Oh, it’s better in the original, I think.

  • Guest

    I’m super glad that I lost my virginity to a very fondly remembered ex-boyfriend, and not to the man who raped me.

  • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/ Kevin_Of_Bangor

    I’m just going to leave this right hear.

    http://youtu.be/oEl9kVl6KPc?t=4m37s

  • Gideon

    This line of thought was so confusing to me when I was a teenager. So, I can’t think about any of my potential dates in a sexual way without sinning, but it becomes instantly okay directly after I’m committed to one for life. All single people must be perfectly asexual to please God. Until they marry, at which point they must flip a switch and start enthusiastically reproducing new disciples.

  • DesertSun59

    This man is totally unqualified to discuss this issue since his premise is utterly false.

  • Miss_Beara

    I wonder if he is having regular conversations with friends and parishioners about their sex lives. To be a fly on the wall…

    • 3lemenope

      Almost certainly with parishioners. Isn’t that part of their job?

  • JackieTrinity

    I learned all about the Origin of Love when I watched “Hedwig and the Angry Inch.” Maybe I should provide Pastor Buer a link.

  • ToonForever

    I’ll throw in a little corollary: My teen partner (now my wife of 25 years) and I were happily active for a good two years before becoming Christians. It was the addition of theology that brought in mountains of guilt, confusion, frustration, virginity reclamation (or whatever the f*** they call it) – which, btw, my wife saw right through as vapid. I was a good bit more brainwashed than she.

    They tried to break us up. They had us counsel with several different people. They manipulated me into *delaying* the wedding (go figure) – All because they wanted us to stop fucking so they could then marry us so we could start again. It was trying NOT to do it that made us miserable.

    And I still stuck with that delusion for 26 years in total.

    Now I see if I’d just blown off that nonsense we could have just enjoyed each other through our teen years and thereafter our married years and so on.

    What a load of horsecrap that idiot pastor is shoving down his congregation’s collective throat.

    • KMR

      One you start having sex with someone you love I don’t think there is anyway to “reclaim” your virginity without harming the relationship. I did what you did with my first husband. I married him because I wanted to make the sex right, the sex never achieved it’s cataclysmic affect on either of us again and we divorced three years after marrying. At least your marriage survived.

    • Tom

      I was going to ask what the hell “virginity reclamation” is, but then I realised it’ll definitely be a load of utter bullshit, and (knowing some of the other stuff fundamentalists have been responsible for) just possibly also some kind of horrific medical procedure, so I changed my mind. And then I realised that wilful ignorance is a fundie tactic, so I gritted my teeth and looked it up anyway.

      There does seem to be some kind of hymen-repair procedure used in the far and middle east but western religious nutters, at least, don’t seem to have latched onto it, thank goodness, and hopefully it wouldn’t be allowed here anyway. As for the rest, it’s simply insane that someone could even ask “can I be a virgin again,” though, since you’re basically asking “can I not have done something,” i.e. “can I change the past,” but that’s really quite consistent with a mindset that could accept garbage like substitutionary atonement, which works in a similar way (i.e. contrary to reality).

      • ToonForever

        It’s generally not that drastic. It’s sort of a “magic word” brand of bullshit. A christian who came into their faith after a very sexually active past may feel, due to the sin/repentance message, that they are soiled. The shame factor is very strong. So in a misguided attempt to change their mentality they “reclaim” their virginity, or say they’re a “born-again” virgin. No need for surgery. Just say the magic words. It’s a whole interesting little bit of nonsense that I hadn’t heard in years until someone mentioned the “Virgin Diaries” show that was on recently where one of the “virgins” was really one of these reclaimed or restored virgins – I can’t remember which phrase she used.

        I wish it had sounded as stupid to me then as it does now.

        Here you go, knock yourself out :)

        http://www.bavirgin.com/

    • closetatheist

      similar situation here. I didn’t feel premarital sex was a bad thing even though my boyfriend, now husband, did…and as weird as it is, I kinda miss the whole “forbidden fruit” angle. To me at least, that made it even more fun – so the ideology kinda did me a favor.

      Even though it worked out for me, it still makes me angry that the same beliefs are constantly forced onto people even though they’re harmful. And what kind of logic do they use when they try to break up couples that have been “cemented” together by sex? How does that make sense?

  • CelticWhisper

    Any other ’90s kids grow up with Beavis & Butthead?

    Van Driessen: Now boys, I want you to give it your all on this project, m’kay? I want you to WOW me.
    Butt-Head: Uh-huhuh. Umm…is that allowed on school property?

  • Lake Atheist

    You know what they say. Monkey see, monkey do.

  • Baby_Raptor

    They sure do take that “Do not bear false witness” commandment seriously.

  • Atheist Al

    God didn’t invent anything… Man invented God. That means man invented Sex. Try again.

  • Ahab

    No regrets here! My first serious romantic/sexual relationship helped me grow as a person and discover new levels of emotional intimacy.

  • Brian

    With the current rates of divorce, i think it is much easier to find people who are unhappy that they got married to begin with, then it is to find people who are “unhappy that they had premarital sex.”

  • John Alexander Harman

    “Actually” is the weasel word in the last sentence you highlighted from that quotation; all Buer has to do to maintain his willful ignorance is to assume that anyone who claims they had premarital sex and are happy about it is either lying or deluded, not actually happy.

    • http://www.allourlives.org/ TooManyJens

      I was just about to say the same thing. All he has to do to maintain his belief in the face of massive evidence to the contrary is to decide that all of us who don’t regret having premarital sex are just desperate to convince ourselves that our behavior isn’t sinful. Purity-culture figures have plenty of practice in this.

      • John Alexander Harman

        And a conservative Christian pastor has plenty of practice at maintaining a wall of confirmation bias against all the ways reality refuses to comport to his beliefs.

        • 100meters

          You all got it right. He is employing (consciously or not) the No True Cocksman….er, Scotsman, trope.

  • Mitch

    I grew up not too far from that church and had a lot of friends from high school go there. The grass is so much greener on this side.

  • David Mock

    It’s funny that the two holiest people in the Bible besides Jesus (Abraham and David) frequently participated in sex outside of marriage.

    • tone

      Job,joseph would be considered “most holy”

  • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

    I had an Italian Comp Sci prof in University who passed on this sage advice from her Very Roman Catholic Grandmother:

    “Whatever you do, don’t marry the first guy you sleep with.”

  • Brent

    I just tweeted: @aaron_buer it’s the act of a coward & a liar to delete all comments that disprove your claims and shut down the discussion. I’m sad for you

    Tweet here -> http://www.twitter.com/brentbrookhouse/status/358265689720635392

    Willing to bet he doesn’t respond

    • islandbrewer

      He won’t. They almost never do. Or he’ll do a drive by evangelist thing, insult you, make fun of you, never actually respond, and then ignore you.

      • Brent

        My bet is that the most I get is “no, i’m sad for YOU”

  • Guest

    More Dark Age, superstitious ramblings from an uneducated con man. I wouldn’t expect anything less from mentally challenged people like this guy.

    • tsara

      Whoa, hey now, let’s not insult the mentally challenged. I have a processing disorder and I have a much firmer grasp on reality than this guy.

    • Michael W Busch

      Cut out the ableism.

      Believing wrong things is in no way equivalent to having a mental disorder.

  • Rick

    I regret NOT having sex before I was married.

  • catbug

    My experience is that the opposite is true. Most people eventually regret having sex with only one person. Then they cheat and get divorced.

  • Ryan Hite

    I’m pretty sure all the people he talked to regarding premarital sex regretted it because they were trained to think that way…

  • Zugswang

    Having only had sex with one person my whole life, I can say definitively that sex with that person was just as enjoyable before and after I married. The only thing that’s changed is we have to remember to remove our rings beforehand, as they can pose a slight safety hazard.

  • Spuddie

    The statement could be honest. He never met anyone who was happy about premarital because he lives in a cave and doesn’t talk to people.

  • Jonathan Duran

    I’d like to know if he’s also speaking from personal experience, or just anecdotes from his guilted flock?

  • Thomas M Schnyder

    Religion is anti-human nature. It is a primitive way of controlling people so they reject their natural instincts. The world would be much better off without people who believe in superstitious myths. I say put a condom on and have fun!

    • baal

      Religion is part of human nature – it’s the reified urge to support your tribe and hang out with your friends. I think of it as a kin to a social virus. An otherwise normal urge for social cohesion (we are social animals) get’s coopted when the leader of the group is an abstraction. The RL leaders of such groups get to pass off blame for bad things as part of the irrefutable non-existant leaders demands and the out group member see the strong signalling and other wise normal social dynamics then shore up the in vs out group identity (oh noes the mean atheists attacked me for being a good xtian, so I ID more strongly as a good Xtian).

      The solution is implied by the other post today – education and raising everyone’s standard of living. Absent those resource shifts (which ease the urge to identify with an ingroup exclusively), the best solution to religion and other in-group behavior is to argue for humanistic notions of treating everyone well and focus folks on the harms they create personally and as a group.

  • shuteme

    Sex is much more fun after marriage you ninnys. That’s why god gave us the free will to have super duper extra-marital sex! Oh yea! Amen!

  • closetatheist

    I seriously doubt that he’s asked every single person he’s ever met whether or not they regret having premarital sex….

    So, what he should have said is “Of the Christians in my social circle that I’ve pried into their personal, sexual lives they’ve all felt the pressure to admit to me, a pastor who’s judging them, that they feel guilty about something that I’ve told them they should feel guilty about.”

  • Eldergothfather

    Based on their aversion to sex, if you are only asking Republicans, you’re just not going to get good results…

  • LizBert

    I grew up evangelical and really bought the whole purity thing. When my boyfriend (now husband) and I started having sex and eventually moved in together I had loads of guilt. Now, as much as I love my husband I wish I had had sex with every boy I dated in high school. It’s not the sex that upsets me now, it’s the waiting and the lost experiences.

  • http://itsmyworldcanthasnotyours.blogspot.com/ wmdkitty

    No regrets (at least on that front) here.

  • Jenny

    Thankfully, I was never concerned about religion, or gods… Therefore, I completely and totally enjoyed much premarital sex, often… I didn’t marry until I was 30. I can also say, that my husband is also very pleased with this. ;)

    • JackieTrinity

      I got married at 30, just like you. I guess I should have spent my teens and 20′s with an aspirin between my knees, right?

  • Margaret Whitestone

    I notice the coward closed comments after he got one that disagreed with his BS. As for me and my wife, we both had sex before we got married and neither of us have any regrets.

    • http://rolltodisbelieve.wordpress.com/ Captain Cassidy

      I’m thankful that my (new) husband had a lot of partners before we got married and that I did too! We learned a lot about sex and relationships and now our marriage is as smooth as Thanksgiving gravy!

  • Zaydin

    I remember a Lewis Black CD I’ve got; he called people who wait until marriage to have sex gamblers.

  • http://abasketcase.blogspot.com/ Basketcase

    So, his first paragraph makes a lot of sense – you shouldn’t use sex as a tool to make yourself feel better. The rest of it? Bollocks.
    And yeah, I regret losing my virginity. The dude was an ass. The next guy I slept with was epically awesome and is now my husband. No regrets there!

  • Kodie

    What I haven’t seen yet here is about the notion that everyone wants sex so everyone has to get married. A person’s status is only seen as pre-marital and married, as if it’s inevitable and requisite. In reality, people are going to have sex and sex makes babies, and marriage is one way to take responsibility. Rather, what happens outside of this guy’s bubble is that people kind of have a trend of getting married and most of them also tend to start families, but who the person is is really important to a lot of people. People also have sex and use birth control and everybody wins. The only kind of person who should regret having sex before they’re married is someone who is bound to marry someone else who cares about that kind of thing – that a man who has willed himself to wait until he’s about 19 and ready to burst wants a virgin because his training hasn’t prepared him to trust that his children are really his and that his wife really loves him. And if he waited, well god damn if he’s going to settle for someone who just went ahead and did it and didn’t restrain themselves.

    For all they talk about souls and every zygote deserving a chance to live and god knowing them individually, they don’t seem to be all that selective. They are trained to fill their role in a household, as I said, it’s inevitable and requisite. We live in a different world, and have come up with a lot of other creative ways around necessary pregnancy that tends to result from the kinds of unprotected sex people had before birth control was refined to be pretty darn effective, cheap, and available at 24-hour stores.

    They live by a quaint custom. Everyone has to get married because everyone will eventually burst with animal lust for anyone who can breathe, and they isolate the responsibility and care for creating new life as “sacred” rather than inevitable. Marriage is a form of birth control in that two people who will have to have as many babies as time allows because they can’t stop it from coming, to make a contract with each other not to bolt out the door, because all of that is hard work. In the real world, we know how to stop it from coming, and if we’re going to bond to someone, they ought to be a good enough person not to leave anyway.

    The responsible thing to do is wait until you are ready to get married, I think. Don’t worry if you’re not the right person for someone and they leave – that’s like dodging a bullet. What I really don’t like is people desperate to settle for someone if they don’t find “the one” by a certain birthday. I can understand wanting to be with someone, but I can’t understand wanting to be with just anyone. The culture of marriage is outside of religion as well as inside of it. People are fake versions of themselves to impress someone who is kind of blah or rude to waiters or critical or bigoted. I don’t like to hear it. If someone is not good for you, why can’t you be yourself, they will drop you in a minute because they should. I don’t like to hear people doing some kind of eggshell dance for someone who is obviously not hiding their flaws to impress them. I’ve been in a lot of situations where it just drives me crazy. I haven’t really decided to be single for the long haul, should something arise, but I’m tired of the games. I am not seeking anyone and I like it.

    I wish everyone would stop hurling themselves at bad marriages and calm the fuck down. I like to hear stories where people are well matched and get along for years, even though they met and married young – that is so lucky. I also have two neighbors, a couple, who slam doors at least once a week. I can only hear the woman screaming inside their apartment and sometimes out in the hall. They aren’t married. Last I heard, he may have been texting some other girl, all I could hear is that the woman doesn’t like how he treats her, yet she goes off her shit with unembarrassed rage so often. This couple has lived here at least 3 or 4 years. From what I gather, he is afraid to stand up to her. I wish I could tell them to go away from each other. I don’t know why they stay together. I don’t know what kind of good times they might have when it’s not like that that they’re clinging to. I understand domestic violence, and at one time, I thought he hit her, but I think she hit him first and he was just playing but hit too hard. It is apartment gossip. I’ve never heard about hitting again, but I did call the cops that time (the guy left before they got there) and we all assumed she was the victim. I just don’t understand if she hates him so much like it sounds like she does that she’s afraid to be alone. That’s pretty much a drastic situation, but in smaller ways, I see it all the time, where people don’t want to be alone that they will put up with things they shouldn’t, and then complain about it to someone else. Why do they want to be miserable the rest of their lives with that person?

    • http://rolltodisbelieve.wordpress.com/ Captain Cassidy

      Speaking as someone who did time with a man who was completely and constitutionally unsuited for a relationship, I can tell you that sometimes the certainty is better than the uncertainty. Uncertainty was a tough thing for me to get used to after leaving Christianity. Even now I don’t like it. Even though he was absolutely wrong for me, even though we fought like a pair of cats in a pillowcase, we stayed together for three grueling and increasingly-unpleasant years before I finally snapped and left. And years later he was still blaming me for doing so, even though he was just as unhappy and frustrated as I was. It’s not easy to understand, but sometimes that’s how people are. You can’t save them. The damage runs way too deep for laypeople to address.

      But all the same I’m glad you’re there to keep an eye open for domestic violence. Your vigilance may save a life one day. :) Thank you for caring about these folks.

  • smrnda

    I actually know of nobody who regretted having sex before marriage. Maybe regretted certain partners, but not *just having sex.*

    It’s worth dissecting his statement – he says he’s never met anyone who was happy they had sex without being married. That should be corrected to be that nobody he has met has *told him* they were happy they had sex before they were married, but that could just be that he’s living in an insular world of sanctimonious prudes.

    • http://rolltodisbelieve.wordpress.com/ Captain Cassidy

      Or, I hate to say, that he’s just lying. It’s hard to imagine he couldn’t find even one account, even online, of someone (oh and let’s face it, someone *female* as his entire emphasis seems to be on women’s purity) who’d had sex before marriage and thought that was awesome. I don’t trust conservative Christian ministers anymore; I’ve heard way too many of them distort the truth to take any of their stories or anecdotes seriously.

      I just noticed he kept only one negative comment in that link, incidentally; he probably thinks his zinger at the end of that thread was so compelling he simply had to keep it. “Well, you weren’t there!” Well, HE wasn’t there for the writing of his source book, now was he? But that’s okay, apparently.

  • Ella Warnock

    He’s never met me, then. ;-)

  • midnight rambler

    My only regret about premarital sex is not having more of it (I’m still not married though, so there’s still time :)

  • E

    Ugh. There’s nothing less sexy to me than mixing religion and sex. (Unless we’re talking about dirty priests and catholic school girls…)

  • Karen Glammeyer Medcoff

    if sex is ONLY for married couples, why does the bible condone raping women as spoils of war, the rape of the female servant so more children can be had etc? Religion is fucked up

    • 3lemenope

      Doesn’t just condone. Commands.

    • Gus Snarp

      It’s kind of funny that in all the ways one can twist and interpret the Bible to mean what they want it to, these people haven’t figured out that one of the few things where the Bible is pretty clear is that it’s only women who aren’t supposed to have sex before marriage. Nothing is every mentioned about men not having premarital sex. Adultery applies only to married people, it is not an act that an unmarried person can commit, and if you want to go all the way, it probably only applied to women originally, too. And even then, the rule against premarital sex is only for daughters being married off. Because women were property and had to be controlled. A woman who managed to live independently and had no intention of being married could have all the premarital sex she wanted. Unfortunately she’d probably be stoned for being a witch. But all that means that today, when women are not property and can live independently, there’s no Biblical barrier to premarital sex as long as your father isn’t selling you into marriage.

      So he’s wrong about the Bible, but still manages to use the Bible to justify treating women as property and premarital sex damaging “the goods”.

  • DreadPirateRogers

    Judging by that picture, the best thing about not being a virgin on your wedding night is you don’t try any of Cosmo’s horrible sex tips on your husband, because you already know that they suck. Sex tips I see in Cosmo all look scary.

  • Gus Snarp

    Never met anyone who didn’t regret premarital sex? Or maybe the only people he talks about premarital sex with are his own parishioners who have heard him lay guilt trips about sex on them from the pulpit on a weekly basis. Unless he brings that topic up with everyone he meets, I doubt he knows whether he’s met anyone who didn’t regret premarital sex. I don’t. My wife doesn’t. Nor do either of us feel the other is “damaged goods” because of it. Rather, we knew a thing or do about relationships and sex before we ever met, which has given us a better relationship.

  • http://rolltodisbelieve.wordpress.com/ Captain Cassidy

    Talk about confirmation bias (and likely a healthy dose of prevarication). It wouldn’t have taken more than 10 minutes out of his day to research anything he was talking about before opening his pie hole. His flippy-dippy idea of married-Christian sex bears about as much resemblance to the Bible’s treatment of sexuality as anything else religious zealots think about any other subjects they use as bludgeons over people’s heads.

    I had premarital sex with the man I later married. And he was horrible. Horrific. Comically inept. Misogynist. Cruel. Negligent. And I had no idea, because I had no other experience to compare with him. It took me years to even recognize how controlling and abusive he was, and when I finally escaped in fear of my physical safety, my preacherboy ex stalked me for a year and a half (a situation that ended only when my “godly” husband remarried). So pardon me if I’m really not thused about the whole “purity” culture thing. I regret only that I didn’t have *more* partners before marrying! My value does not lie between my legs, and that value cannot be corrupted or changed by how much sex I’ve had, how many partners, or the circumstances around those experiences. I refuse to let misogynistic tools like him devalue me that way.

  • Justin Bowerman

    Ok, seriously. would you really want to marry someone you had never had sex with? Now think on that, would you trust someone to be a spouse that you had not first trusted as a lover?

  • Elis

    “I have never met anyone who is actually happy about having sex before they were married. ” Realy???? I wonder how he interprets what people say to him! Well I belong to those people he has never met… Never- ever had I even a single remorseful thought about premarital sex, and for no thing in the world would I drown my youth in shame and suppression. I don’t understand how can people believe in a God who’s interested in what’s going on in their bedrooms… Sex is an “invention” of mother nature or father God -depends on sb’s perspective-. Marriage is NOT. It’s a fabrication of humans – so, I don’t get it why a universal physical instict can, or has to be “purified” by a construct of our species…

  • Adam M Cauler

    Regardless of the religious animosity ya’ll possess, and seem to love to place that bias on everything you write about to try and appeal to the fools, your post is based on unsound logic. “That’s what Jesus would have done”, really, I think you need to go back to school and relearn basic logic. You can’t argue a maybe or a woulda, coulda, shoulda. Your statement is illogical. Now, let’s move onto the topic of science. Just as the Word of God implies, there is an actual chemical change that occurs in the Human body after intercourse, which in the scientific community, is referred to as the “Sex Glue”. Ever read up on that one? Doubt it, your science is as fake as the Relationships of the Christians you prey on. The proverbial “sex glue” depletes over time, and the ability for a strong physiological connection to future mates grows weaker and weaker with each repeated intercourse with a different mate. So unless you intent to have premarital sex, with the woman that you will stay with for the rest of your life, expect to have a less intense connection with the one you actually do wind up with.
    Furthermore, you must understand that when this preacher states that he’s only “seen and heard massive regret” come from premarital sex, that this statement is coming from someone with a conviction (i.e. relationship with the Creator) and, without a relationship with the Creator, you bet your ass, you won’t have regret about premarital sex.
    I wasn’t raised as a Christian, and I’ve experienced my fair share of acting like a retard and doing stupid things that actually are self destructive (sin) just because I wasn’t aware of what I was actually doing. So, my post isn’t from an ignorant “churched” person. I still do stupid stuff from time to time, difference between old me, and new me, is not the lack of potential to do self destructive things, but the old me did not have a covering, and the new me does, so, I’m thankful for the covering (Believing that Jesus rose from the dead for me) and for the heads up, on how sinning actually hurts myself and others, so I try my hardest, with his help (conviction) to avoid participating in it. Christianity is simple, and grounded in what ya’ll would deem scientific, you just gotta throw away your bias, and see it for what it is. Creation can be understood from the source.
    Premarital sex for the Christian is filled with deep regret, because we know better. For an unbeliever, it will go on as it has always gone on from Sodom and Gomorrah, no regret whatsoever, but we all know what happened to Sodom. (Which was a proven event in history, thanks to archeology).
    Later Dudes,
    You do the crime, you do the time and with that in mind…
    BTW if you want to find wisdom… open your eyes to how hurtful your own actions are to yourself and others, say sorry to your Creator who designed you to be in a good relationship with Him, and other people, then let Him know that you believe He sent Jesus to pay the price for all your sins (hurtful actions) and tell him that you believe Jesus didn’t die with them forever, but he was the first one to live again (resurrect), and that since you believe that too now, you can also defeat death, and sin(hurtful dumb decisions), with his help, and live forever.

    • http://itsmyworldcanthasnotyours.blogspot.com/ wmdkitty

      “sex glue”?

      LOLWUT

      • Bitter Lizard

        They told me it was lube! They told me it was luuuuuuube!

        Oh, well, guess it’s time to break out the blowtorch and cheese grater.

        • http://itsmyworldcanthasnotyours.blogspot.com/ wmdkitty

          *snorfle* Thanks, I needed the laugh.

        • C.L. Honeycutt

          Shit, is that how it works? I’ve been using a cheesetorch and blow grater all this time!

          • Nomad

            I think “cheesetorch” will be the best thing I’ve read for days. I just want you to know that.

            • C.L. Honeycutt

              “Blowgrater” in this context is the most horrible thing I’ve written in like a year. :(

          • Bitter Lizard

            You and I will settle this on e-Bay, you motherfucker.

      • Adam M Cauler

        Sounds funny huh! Science can be, why does it carry such a serious conotation all the time. Check this out:
        One of the prominent figures in neuropsychology is Dr. Daniel Amen. Dr. Amen does cutting edge research in neuropsychology and has helped millions of people have healthier brains, which translates to healthier lives. Dr. Daniel Amen writes in his book, Change Your Brain Change Your Life, page 41:
        “Whenever a person is sexually involved with another person, neurochemical changes occur in both their brains that encourage limbic, emotional bonding. Yet limbic bonding is the reason casual sex doesn’t really work for most people on a whole mind and body level. Two people may decide to have sex ‘just for the fun of it,’ yet something is occurring on another level they might not have decided on at all: sex is enhancing an emotional bond between them whether they want it or not. One person, often the woman, is bound to form an attachment and will be hurt when a casual affair ends. One reason it is usually the women who is hurt most is that the female limbic system is larger than the male’s.”
        Want more info….let me know…

        • http://itsmyworldcanthasnotyours.blogspot.com/ wmdkitty

          Oh, look, gender essentialism, slut-shaming, and bullshit. Not interested.

          • Anna

            No wonder, considering this little tidbit of information:

            Amen is also one of the developers of Saddleback Church’s Daniel Plan, a 52 week program to get churches healthy, physically, emotionally and spiritually.

            Further reasons no one should be taking this person seriously:

            In 2012 The Washington Post Magazine ran a cover story expose entitled Daniel Amen is the most popular psychiatrist in America. To most researchers and scientists, that’s a very bad thing. The Post detailed Amen’s lack of acceptance among the scientific community and his monetary conflict of interest.

            In 2005, Quackwatch.org released a paper written by physician Dr. Harriet Hall which questioned the effectiveness of the SPECT scans and criticized Amen for not declaring them as experimental. In a response to criticism, Amen’s attorney has described his work as follows:

            “The Amen Clinics tracks treatment response among its patients. 85% of our patients report a high degree of satisfaction with our services. We are not a typical psychiatric clinic. We typically see patients who have failed 3 or 4 other mental health professionals, and who have an average of 3.5 psychiatric disorders using standard DSM diagnostic measures. No one keeps response rates on such a complex diagnostic group, yet our results are very encouraging.”

            In a further comment by Dr. Harriet Hall, “This is an admission that there is no evidence. High satisfaction rates are not relevant to the question of efficacy. I don’t doubt that Dr. Amen helps many of the people who consult him. The key question, however, is whether or not SPECT scanning is justifiable for most of them.”

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Amen#Controversy

            • http://itsmyworldcanthasnotyours.blogspot.com/ wmdkitty

              And I still can’t get past “sex glue”.

              I’m sorry, it’s just too fucking funny!

              • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson
                • http://itsmyworldcanthasnotyours.blogspot.com/ wmdkitty

                  I’m sure this is some kind of Rule 34 manifestation, I just don’t know if it can be applied to actual products — i.e. “If there is a sex product (lube, dildo, vibes, etc) that can be imagined, someone will make it.”

                  Also: Google “Bad Dragon”

                • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

                  It’s for my science project on Orcas! Honestly!

                • http://itsmyworldcanthasnotyours.blogspot.com/ wmdkitty

                  LOL

                  Furries — we really DO ruin everything!

                  (And some of those toys? Mm-mm-mm, they look satisfying!)

          • Adam M Cauler

            Like I said earlie, people without relationship will go on doing what they want shamelessly. and this is a perfect example to everyone what willingly ignorant looks like. in the last days they will be lovers of pleasure more than lovers of God.

            • http://itsmyworldcanthasnotyours.blogspot.com/ wmdkitty

              And now preaching.

              *yawn*

            • C.L. Honeycutt

              Do you kiss your mother with that tongue that only speaks words of overweaning pride, arrogance, dismissiveness, and childishly transparent dishonesty? Jesus wept.

            • Fred

              It’s extremely weird of you to assume a bunch of atheists care what god thinks. Why should anyone care about what some mythological creature.

              Your whole argument boils down to, fire is hot, water is wet and therefore god. It’s really silly. You might be better off talking to that moron who seems to have “evidence” against homosexuality because magnets. At least you’d be on the same footing.

            • Nomad

              Wait, hang on here. Does having sex make you attached to people or not? Make up your mind dude. First it’s “sex glue” (seriously, most people here are probably familiar with the hormone oxytocin already, just say it and don’t look so foolish), and now you’re saying people without a relationship will have sex all they want and not form relationships. Does having sex stick you to people or not? Is consistency too much to ask from you?

              • Adam M Cauler

                there is absolutely no debat on whether or not having sex with another binds you to that person, it does, this was never refuted, its ok that your confused, let me break it down in laymens terms… your “glued” but whether or not you’ll feel convicted about hurting other people and yourself, after you’ve cut it off suddenly depends on whether or not you receive conviction or not due to your individual relationship with the creator. very consistent. and mind your slander. just cause you don’t understand, and your feeling defensive, doesn’t give you a right to react in ignorantly with quipy insults. hope this clears things up for yall

                • Nomad

                  So what you’re saying is you have a relationship whether you know it or feel it? It’s such a powerful thing that some people have it without ever being aware of it or having it effect their actions?

                  Yep, that’s certainly irrefutable.

                • Adam M Cauler

                  If I’m understanding you correctly, I think you nailed it on the head! (; thats why, you might as well save yourself and others some hurt and just practice all you want on your wife, who your bonded with and who loves you a ton

              • Adam M Cauler

                And reread my post, it never says that you won’t form relationships if you don’t feel convicted, it says you won’t feel convicted about breaking them, without a relationship with THE CREATOR (key subject) read about deriving subjective relevance, then you’ll understand how to properly exegate a sentence…(;

                • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

                  Since people who don’t have a relationship with THE CREATOR feel variously convicted about breaking their various relationships, there is no debate on whether having a relationship with THE CREATOR has any bearing on weather or not you feel convicted in breaking your relationships.

                  Exegate that.

                  Edit: Gads, did I use ‘weather’ for ‘whether’? Sheesh. Good thing I didn’t castigate Adam for his atrocious typos.

                • Nomad

                  Wow, that’s a pretty impressive attempt to spin. You said that sex makes people attached to each other. In other words, they’d want to stay together. You also say that people will have sex casually and not want to stay together.

                  Those two concepts do not play nicely with each other. Clearly some people are not feeling attached to people they have sex with. You lose.

                • http://itsmyworldcanthasnotyours.blogspot.com/ wmdkitty

                  Pfffft. Exegate THIS:

                • Adam M Cauler

                  One Don’t worry I’d say the same thing too if I was conformed to the majority of intellectually numb people. I just hope you wise up soon, cause it really does suck to walk through life so ignorantly, willingly even… but there’s nothing you can say to convince someone with the brain power of Ralphy, from the Simpson’s, sorry I tried to teach your reprobate mind something useful. hopefully someone with an actual learners heart will take something from my words. btw, stop being a Darrell! lol

                • http://itsmyworldcanthasnotyours.blogspot.com/ wmdkitty

                  Was that supposed to be insulting?

                  ‘Cuz it failed. Hard.

                • Adam M Cauler

                  You don’t know much do ya ;)

                • http://itsmyworldcanthasnotyours.blogspot.com/ wmdkitty

                  Sure, there’s a lot I don’t know, and at the very least, I can admit it.

                  What’s that got to do with your “sex glue”?

                • Adam M Cauler

                  Wow, just wow!

                • Adam M Cauler

                  Wow, just wow.

      • Adam M Cauler

        When it comes to the physical act of sex, there is a tremendous amount of emotional bonding that is being created that most probably do not even think of. We can think of this bond as the glue that ties two people together. This bond can have a positive effect as well as a negative one. Let’s dive into the physiology and psychology of sex to investigate this phenomenon.
        Check this out:
        One of the prominent figures in neuropsychology is Dr. Daniel Amen. Dr. Amen does cutting edge research in neuropsychology and has helped millions of people have healthier brains, which translates to healthier lives. Dr. Daniel Amen writes in his book, Change Your Brain Change Your Life, page 41:

        “Whenever a person is sexually involved with another person, neurochemical changes occur in both their brains that encourage limbic, emotional bonding. Yet limbic bonding is the reason casual sex doesn’t really work for most people on a whole mind and body level. Two people may decide to have sex ‘just for the fun of it,’ yet something is occurring on another level they might not have decided on at all: sex is enhancing an emotional bond between them whether they want it or not. One person, often the woman, is bound to form an attachment and will be hurt when a casual affair ends. One reason it is usually the women who is hurt most is that the female limbic system is larger than the male’s.”

    • tsara

      …well, this is a fitting icing for the surreal cake my day’s been.

      Also, I spoke to a very nice prostitute earlier, and she told me she loved her job. She did not appear to be suffering from any ill effects from any kind of ‘sex glue’, though I admit I was not aware of the phenomenon previously and could not look for it.

      • Nomad

        It’s a hormone called oxytocin, popularly believed to be involved in acts of physical bonding and enjoyment of cuddling and the like. Conventional wisdom holds that it effects women more strongly than men but there is clearly room for significant variation.

        • tsara

          Oh, I know. Apparently my particularly oblivious form of sarcasm is not translating well. Or maybe my brain’s just broken; I’ve been pretty sick.

  • Cynthia Biron

    I didn’t wait. . I am not happy about it, but I don’t let if affect my life or feelings. Move on! God forgives…that is the entire point of Jesus!!!!

  • christopher anderson

    I think sex should only come into a relationship when both people really love eachother, are committed to one another and they feel that the timing is wright. People’s beliefs are important and so everyone’s opinions and beliefs should be respected. No matter what. Who are we to all judge on what is wright or wrong. No ones perfect everyone makes mistakes. People nowadays are too quick to judge other people before taking a good hard look at them selves. We should not be a society that is quick to pass judgement on others. We should all show respect to one another. That is what is important in being a christian. Everyone should be loved no matter what


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